Obama: "I have Israel's back" (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu.

Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.

Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

 

[Thunderlips]

What does this really mean though?

 

[Sarnoff]

What does this really mean though?

He knows where to stick the knife.

 

[timschochet]

What does this really mean though?

Well, he pledged once again, publicly, that America is not going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons. "Not on my watch," he says.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

 

[Gawain]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

 

[timschochet]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

No. No American president, with the possible sole exception of George W. Bush, has ever kissed Israel's ###. Every American president since 1948 has rightfully expressed friendship toward Israel, with the overwhelming support of the American public, because (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook. George W. Bush believed that this meant America had to support every specific action by the Netanyahu government. That was, IMO, an immature and incorrect position. Obama has returned us to the previous position of approving of Israel generally, but not necessarily sanctioning every action by the current Israeli government.

 

[Autumn Wind]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

No. No American president, with the possible sole exception of George W. Bush, has ever kissed Israel's ###. Every American president since 1948 has rightfully expressed friendship toward Israel, with the overwhelming support of the American public, because (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook. George W. Bush believed that this meant America had to support every specific action by the Netanyahu government. That was, IMO, an immature and incorrect position. Obama has returned us to the previous position of approving of Israel generally, but not necessarily sanctioning every action by the current Israeli government.

How is it in our interest to back Israel the way we have? I'm not suggesting we shouldn't, but it seems to cause more trouble for us with every passing year.

 

[timschochet]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

 

[36th Chamber]

Nothing to see here move along......

 

[jonessed]

Coming out and stating that they would not inform the US of a hit on Iran's nuclear facilities was most definitely a sign of lack of confidence in Obama. I doubt that has changed regardless of Obama's continued support in public statements.

 

[timschochet]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

No. No American president, with the possible sole exception of George W. Bush, has ever kissed Israel's ###. Every American president since 1948 has rightfully expressed friendship toward Israel, with the overwhelming support of the American public, because (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook. George W. Bush believed that this meant America had to support every specific action by the Netanyahu government. That was, IMO, an immature and incorrect position. Obama has returned us to the previous position of approving of Israel generally, but not necessarily sanctioning every action by the current Israeli government.

How is it in our interest to back Israel the way we have? I'm not suggesting we shouldn't, but it seems to cause more trouble for us with every passing year.

When you write, "the way we have" I'm not sure you're aware of exactly how we support Israel. We have never helped them in a single war, for instance. We did little, historically, to help establish the State of Israel (other than not allowing Jewish refugees from the Holocaust to come here.) What we HAVE done is supported their moral right to exist as a free nation, and we have guaranteed some of their loans and subsidized some of our defense industries that sell weapons to them (that's what the foreign aid is all about.) We do these things because we share common interests and common enemies. Israel, like us, are the good guys.

 

[Clifford]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu. Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

If Israel and the US went to war which would you support?

 

[timschochet]

Coming out and stating that they would not inform the US of a hit on Iran's nuclear facilities was most definitely a sign of lack of confidence in Obama. I doubt that has changed regardless of Obama's continued support in public statements.

I did not hear him say that. I would be surprised if he did. Netanyahu is not such a good guy IMO, but he's not an idiot.

 

[jonessed]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

No. No American president, with the possible sole exception of George W. Bush, has ever kissed Israel's ###. Every American president since 1948 has rightfully expressed friendship toward Israel, with the overwhelming support of the American public, because (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook. George W. Bush believed that this meant America had to support every specific action by the Netanyahu government. That was, IMO, an immature and incorrect position. Obama has returned us to the previous position of approving of Israel generally, but not necessarily sanctioning every action by the current Israeli government.

How is it in our interest to back Israel the way we have? I'm not suggesting we shouldn't, but it seems to cause more trouble for us with every passing year.

I don't think Israel would have any qualms about dropping a nuke if they felt their existence was threatened and if we didn't support them their existence would definitely be threatened in short order. It's unfortunate we have been put in the position of world police officer, but it's not in our best interest to see WWIII start in the Middle East

 

[timschochet]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu. Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

If Israel and the US went to war which would you support?

Please first provide me the scenario under which this would actually happen. Then I can answer your ridiculous question.

 

[timschochet]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

No. No American president, with the possible sole exception of George W. Bush, has ever kissed Israel's ###. Every American president since 1948 has rightfully expressed friendship toward Israel, with the overwhelming support of the American public, because (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook. George W. Bush believed that this meant America had to support every specific action by the Netanyahu government. That was, IMO, an immature and incorrect position. Obama has returned us to the previous position of approving of Israel generally, but not necessarily sanctioning every action by the current Israeli government.

How is it in our interest to back Israel the way we have? I'm not suggesting we shouldn't, but it seems to cause more trouble for us with every passing year.

I don't think Israel would have any qualms about dropping a nuke if they felt their existence was threatened and if we didn't support them their existence would definitely be threatened in short order. It's unfortunate we have been put in the position of world police officer, but it's not in our best interest to see WWIII start in the Middle East

This is definitely NOT why we support Israel. And yes, Israel would have serious qualms about using nuclear weapons under any circumstances.

 

[Gawain]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

With apologies to Voltaire, God is on the side of the best technology.$100 billion since 1974 weighs heavily on tipping the scales. Had Israel appeared solely on the basis of Zionism, I would agree with you. Seeing as how it has been propped up both militarily and financially by Western nations, I am inclined to disagree with you. US-Israel relations when contrasted with US-Iran relations only further cement my view.

 

[The Z Machine]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

 

[Clifford]

This entire thread...Tim's entire existence on this board

He's just filling up this thread with blatantly false premises hoping someone asks him to explain himself.

 

[Tom Hagen]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

I don't know, they are kind of like the Red Sox at this point. Sure they were lovable underdogs but after they won the 6 Day Way and then repeated in the Yom Kippur War it's not the same.

 

[timschochet]

This entire thread...Tim's entire existence on this boardHe's just filling up this thread with blatantly false premises hoping someone asks him to explain himself.

Blatantly false premises? You mean like Israel and America going to war?FYI: I don't fish. When it comes to political subjects, you're of course welcome to agree or disagree with me all you like. But if I write it, I believe it.

 

[timschochet]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

 

[The Z Machine]

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Let's not go overboard here. I don't think the rest of the world would stand by and see every Israeli eliminated. Your hyperbole isn't helping out with defending Israel's situation and viewpoint.

 

[Clifford]

I've never seen much in way of your beliefs. Seems like you MO is to post both sides to an issue and ask the crowd what they think. The only thing I've ever been able to nail you down on is that you really, really like Israel.

So people have already called you out on Israel being underdogs, a truly laughable notion for obvious reasons that have already been posted.

You then roll out the (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook

Both matters of opinion I know many disagree with including myself. On B, I really can't see our country tolerating a government worker mowing down a student kneeling in protest with a bulldozer. That type of crap would not fly here, but did in Israel. I also can't see this country supporting a border policy that makes the immigration laws in Alabama and Arizona look like jokes.

On A), another matter of opinion with strong feelings on both sides, and in no way a given as it is presented here. I have asked in previous threads for a concise explanation of the benefits America reaps as a result of our relationship, and I think when the negative is the unwavering hatred of the entire Arab world, you'd need some pretty obvious and discernible benefits to outweigh that, given decades of terrorism addressed at the US where Israel and our support thereof is cited as the direct cause of the attack.

So when you post things like that as if they were matter of national consent it feels like a fishing trip. Surely you know Americans are deeply divided on the unconditional support of Israel and the benefits we reap from the relationship.

 

[timschochet]

Clifford those are fine questions- I am away from my computer (typing this from iPhone) will respond later

 

[timschochet]

I've never seen much in way of your beliefs. Seems like you MO is to post both sides to an issue and ask the crowd what they think. The only thing I've ever been able to nail you down on is that you really, really like Israel. So people have already called you out on Israel being underdogs, a truly laughable notion for obvious reasons that have already been posted.You then roll out the (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlookBoth matters of opinion I know many disagree with including myself. On B, I really can't see our country tolerating a government worker mowing down a student kneeling in protest with a bulldozer. That type of crap would not fly here, but did in Israel. I also can't see this country supporting a border policy that makes the immigration laws in Alabama and Arizona look like jokes.On A), another matter of opinion with strong feelings on both sides, and in no way a given as it is presented here. I have asked in previous threads for a concise explanation of the benefits America reaps as a result of our relationship, and I think when the negative is the unwavering hatred of the entire Arab world, you'd need some pretty obvious and discernible benefits to outweigh that, given decades of terrorism addressed at the US where Israel and our support thereof is cited as the direct cause of the attack.So when you post things like that as if they were matter of national consent it feels like a fishing trip. Surely you know Americans are deeply divided on the unconditional support of Israel and the benefits we reap from the relationship.

OK fine questions. Let me try to respond:1. I don't believe calling Israel an underdog is a laughable notion. I have tried to explain why. You're free to disagree of course. However, I should state that whether Israel is an underdog or not in no way has any bearing on whether or not we should support them. Imperial Japan was the underdog against us in World War II. Osama Bin Ladin was an underdog against us over the last 20 years. Sometimes being the underdog is good; sometimes it isn't.2. When I ask questions, or present both sides as you suggest, it's because I'm uncertain over an issue. But that is not my "M.O." I have very strong opinions on a variety of subjects, not just this one. 3. I didn't like the student being mowed down either. It's not quite as simple as you're making out, but I'm not going to argue that point- let's agree that it was despicable behavior on the part of those who did it;. Kent State and Abu Ghraib were despicable behavior too on the part of our government. Neither incident, however, is representative of the USA as a whole entity, and neither is this incident representative of Israel. What IS representative of both the United States and Israel is our willingness as nations to examine these events in detail and self-criticize. That is something that the right wing in both countries seem to despise- they consider it unpatriotic to question- yet it is a feature which makes us nearly unique among nations. It is a proof to me (there are many) that Israel is a moral nation, as we are. The minute that either we or Israel stop criticizing ourselves for bad things we do is the minute we will lose our moral stature.4. Is our support of Israel which angers the Arab world? Or is Israel's friendship with America which angers the Arab world? Or is it the extreme poverty of 90% of the Arab world, something Israel has nothing to do with, which angers the Arab world? Or is it the terrible misery of the Palestinian people, which Israel in point of fact has far less to do with than the Arab world, which angers the Arab world? Actually, there's an awful lot which angers the Arab world. Severing our friendship with Israel would do little to mollify them. In fact, if Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, they would still be at each other's throats, and ours. 5. FInally: nobody should be divided about the unconditional support of Israel. I am against it. I am against the unconditional support of ANY country. Netanyahu's a jerk, but not an evil person IMO. If Israel had an evil person as their leader, or did evil things on a consistent basis I would drop my support of them immediately. I would do the same for the United States, despite the fact that I am an American. But I don't anticipate this for either the USA or Israel. Until that time comes, I believe we should firmly, not unconditionally but firmly support Israel as one of our closest allies. And although it wouldn't affect my own beliefs one way or another, I am relieved to know that the vast majority of Americans agree with me on this and always have.

 

[Riversco]

I've never seen much in way of your beliefs. Seems like you MO is to post both sides to an issue and ask the crowd what they think. The only thing I've ever been able to nail you down on is that you really, really like Israel. So people have already called you out on Israel being underdogs, a truly laughable notion for obvious reasons that have already been posted.You then roll out the (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlookBoth matters of opinion I know many disagree with including myself. On B, I really can't see our country tolerating a government worker mowing down a student kneeling in protest with a bulldozer. That type of crap would not fly here, but did in Israel. I also can't see this country supporting a border policy that makes the immigration laws in Alabama and Arizona look like jokes.On A), another matter of opinion with strong feelings on both sides, and in no way a given as it is presented here. I have asked in previous threads for a concise explanation of the benefits America reaps as a result of our relationship, and I think when the negative is the unwavering hatred of the entire Arab world, you'd need some pretty obvious and discernible benefits to outweigh that, given decades of terrorism addressed at the US where Israel and our support thereof is cited as the direct cause of the attack.So when you post things like that as if they were matter of national consent it feels like a fishing trip. Surely you know Americans are deeply divided on the unconditional support of Israel and the benefits we reap from the relationship.

OK fine questions. Let me try to respond:1. I don't believe calling Israel an underdog is a laughable notion. I have tried to explain why. You're free to disagree of course. However, I should state that whether Israel is an underdog or not in no way has any bearing on whether or not we should support them. Imperial Japan was the underdog against us in World War II. Osama Bin Ladin was an underdog against us over the last 20 years. Sometimes being the underdog is good; sometimes it isn't.2. When I ask questions, or present both sides as you suggest, it's because I'm uncertain over an issue. But that is not my "M.O." I have very strong opinions on a variety of subjects, not just this one. 3. I didn't like the student being mowed down either. It's not quite as simple as you're making out, but I'm not going to argue that point- let's agree that it was despicable behavior on the part of those who did it;. Kent State and Abu Ghraib were despicable behavior too on the part of our government. Neither incident, however, is representative of the USA as a whole entity, and neither is this incident representative of Israel. What IS representative of both the United States and Israel is our willingness as nations to examine these events in detail and self-criticize. That is something that the right wing in both countries seem to despise- they consider it unpatriotic to question- yet it is a feature which makes us nearly unique among nations. It is a proof to me (there are many) that Israel is a moral nation, as we are. The minute that either we or Israel stop criticizing ourselves for bad things we do is the minute we will lose our moral stature.4. Is our support of Israel which angers the Arab world? Or is Israel's friendship with America which angers the Arab world? Or is it the extreme poverty of 90% of the Arab world, something Israel has nothing to do with, which angers the Arab world? Or is it the terrible misery of the Palestinian people, which Israel in point of fact has far less to do with than the Arab world, which angers the Arab world? Actually, there's an awful lot which angers the Arab world. Severing our friendship with Israel would do little to mollify them. In fact, if Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, they would still be at each other's throats, and ours. 5. FInally: nobody should be divided about the unconditional support of Israel. I am against it. I am against the unconditional support of ANY country. Netanyahu's a jerk, but not an evil person IMO. If Israel had an evil person as their leader, or did evil things on a consistent basis I would drop my support of them immediately. I would do the same for the United States, despite the fact that I am an American. But I don't anticipate this for either the USA or Israel. Until that time comes, I believe we should firmly, not unconditionally but firmly support Israel as one of our closest allies. And although it wouldn't affect my own beliefs one way or another, I am relieved to know that the vast majority of Americans agree with me on this and always have.

I thought I'd try the Free Summarizer on tim's post to see what I'd get. We set it to 2 sentences.http://freesummarizer.com/

Or is it the extreme poverty of 90% of the Arab world, something Israel has nothing to do with, which angers the Arab world? Or is it the terrible misery of the Palestinian people, which Israel in point of fact has far less to do with than the Arab world, which angers the Arab world?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

What does this really mean though?

He knows where to stick the knife.

Yep

 

[SofaKings]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu. Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

It would be nice if he lost the "ghetto" lingo.

 

[Riversco]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu. Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

It would be nice if he lost the "ghetto" lingo.

Well, he didn't say "I got Israel's back"

 

[pantherclub]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

 

[SofaKings]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu. Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

It would be nice if he lost the "ghetto" lingo.

Well, he didn't say "I got Israel's back"

Or "I's got Israel's back"

 

[timschochet]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

It has been stated very clearly by almost all of Israel's enemies that they would prefer to see the "Zionist entity" wiped off the face of the Earth. It has not been a century since Jews were faced with annihilation. So yes, when Arab leaders make these comments, the Israelis take them very seriously.

 

[Da Guru]

I have Israels back? I? Jesus....

 

[Riversco]

I have Israels back? I? Jesus....

Yes, he personally does. Not the US armed forces. Not the State Department. Its him personally. Its all about him.

 

[BoneYardDog]

If Israel waits on the US, Iran will have a nuke and it will be to late...

obama having their back should scare the heck out of Israel, of course he will have no problem apologizing after its to late...

 

[Clifford]

Tim, Israel is a global military power. They could wipe out two or three of their neighbors without breaking a sweat.

Arab hate: you can play chicken or the egg with this of you want. But the fact remains we have supported Israel and we have supplied them with their military and the people who bomb us say that's why. You can say thu would just find another reason or attribute that to other things but it's just conjecture.

Israel's moral fiber: this is total opinion, but I would say they are closer to their neighbors than they are to us when it comes to valuing the rule of law and respecting international law. However the last decade has brought us closer to Israel, muhch to our moral detriment. The torture we committed at Abu ghraib was straight out of an Israeli playbook. Bush's hatchet men were all about learning the best ways to humiliate and degrade Arabs.

Until you at least acknowledge that Israel's military power provides it with an almost unassailable position in terms of all out war, it's impossible to take you seriously on this subject. Your bias is blinding you.

 

[pantherclub]

Tim, Israel is a global military power. They could wipe out two or three of their neighbors without breaking a sweat. Arab hate: you can play chicken or the egg with this of you want. But the fact remains we have supported Israel and we have supplied them with their military and the people who bomb us say that's why. You can say thu would just find another reason or attribute that to other things but it's just conjecture. Israel's moral fiber: this is total opinion, but I would say they are closer to their neighbors than they are to us when it comes to valuing the rule of law and respecting international law. However the last decade has brought us closer to Israel, muhch to our moral detriment. The torture we committed at Abu ghraib was straight out of an Israeli playbook. Bush's hatchet men were all about learning the best ways to humiliate and degrade Arabs. Until you at least acknowledge that Israel's military power provides it with an almost unassailable position in terms of all out war, it's impossible to take you seriously on this subject. Your bias is blinding you.

Tim should print this post out and read it every morning before heading out.bravo clifford.

 

[17seconds]

It means he's continuing the tradition of American politicians kissing Israel's ### 24/7.

No. No American president, with the possible sole exception of George W. Bush, has ever kissed Israel's ###. Every American president since 1948 has rightfully expressed friendship toward Israel, with the overwhelming support of the American public, because (a) it is in our interests to do so and (b) because we share a similar moral outlook. George W. Bush believed that this meant America had to support every specific action by the Netanyahu government. That was, IMO, an immature and incorrect position. Obama has returned us to the previous position of approving of Israel generally, but not necessarily sanctioning every action by the current Israeli government.

WWRD?

 

[timschochet]

1. Tim, Israel is a global military power. 2. They could wipe out two or three of their neighbors without breaking a sweat. 3. Arab hate: you can play chicken or the egg with this of you want. But the fact remains we have supported Israel and we have supplied them with their military and the people who bomb us say that's why. You can say thu would just find another reason or attribute that to other things but it's just conjecture. 4. Israel's moral fiber: this is total opinion, but I would say they are closer to their neighbors than they are to us when it comes to valuing the rule of law and respecting international law. However the last decade has brought us closer to Israel, muhch to our moral detriment. 5. The torture we committed at Abu ghraib was straight out of an Israeli playbook. Bush's hatchet men were all about learning the best ways to humiliate and degrade Arabs. Until you at least acknowledge that Israel's military power provides it with an almost unassailable position in terms of all out war, it's impossible to take you seriously on this subject. Your bias is blinding you.

1. No it isn't.2. No they couldn't.3. Sorry I disagree with you.4. Sorry I STRONGLY disagree with you.5. Sorry I STRONGLY disagree with you. Guess we just disagree.

 

[Gawain]

1. Tim, Israel is a global military power. 2. They could wipe out two or three of their neighbors without breaking a sweat. 3. Arab hate: you can play chicken or the egg with this of you want. But the fact remains we have supported Israel and we have supplied them with their military and the people who bomb us say that's why. You can say thu would just find another reason or attribute that to other things but it's just conjecture. 4. Israel's moral fiber: this is total opinion, but I would say they are closer to their neighbors than they are to us when it comes to valuing the rule of law and respecting international law. However the last decade has brought us closer to Israel, muhch to our moral detriment. 5. The torture we committed at Abu ghraib was straight out of an Israeli playbook. Bush's hatchet men were all about learning the best ways to humiliate and degrade Arabs. Until you at least acknowledge that Israel's military power provides it with an almost unassailable position in terms of all out war, it's impossible to take you seriously on this subject. Your bias is blinding you.

1. No it isn't.2. No they couldn't.3. Sorry I disagree with you.4. Sorry I STRONGLY disagree with you.5. Sorry I STRONGLY disagree with you. Guess we just disagree.

Can we agree that outside of Israel, Iran has the largest military in the Middle East (guess that ignores the American military as well)?With 1/10 the population of Iran, Israel possesses twice as many tanks, twice as many military airplanes, 3/4 the number of active duty troops and nuclear weapons. Israel has about 3 times the number of active duty soldiers than Syria and probably 4 times the number of military aircraft. Israel also holds a decided technological advantage over Syria and Iran, the two leading Muslim powers in the ME. Israel has blocked the Russian sale of Aircraft to its Muslim neighbors.

 

[timschochet]

Can we agree that outside of Israel, Iran has the largest military in the Middle East (guess that ignores the American military as well)?With 1/10 the population of Iran, Israel possesses twice as many tanks, twice as many military airplanes, 3/4 the number of active duty troops and nuclear weapons. Israel has about 3 times the number of active duty soldiers than Syria and probably 4 times the number of military aircraft. Israel also holds a decided technological advantage over Syria and Iran, the two leading Muslim powers in the ME. Israel has blocked the Russian sale of Aircraft to its Muslim neighbors.

I acknowledge all of this.

 

[Dr. Gobbler]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

He's been indoctrinated, leave him alone.

 

[SofaKings]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

He's been indoctrinated, leave him alone.

Which Arab/Persian leader stating "israel should be wiped from the face of the earth" do you discredit?

 

[guderian]

Russell Ziskey: I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat... I'll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

He's been indoctrinated, leave him alone.

How The Lobby indoctinates

 

[tommyboy]

Obama gave a long speech at AIPAC supporting Israel- "I have Israel's back!" He repeated it today in a meeting with Netanyahu. Netanyahu said Israel would do what it needs to do to maintain its security. Does this mean war? Bombing of Iran? I don't know, but I'm still skeptical. I think this is a lot of tough talk. But we'll see.Obama has proven to be a great friend of Israel, and I'm very happy about this.

he said about the same thing in 2008, then spent most of 2009-2011 engaging Israels enemies and telling Israel to get lost.2012, campaign mode, repeat what was said in 2008 in order to hold on to critical Jewish votes, then spend all of 2013-2016 punishing Israel since he won't be beholden to elections any longer.If ever there was a more clear cut example of outright lying to get votes, this would be it, part 2. And the fact that Jews in droves voted for this guy is ironic to say the least.

 

[cstu]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

It has been stated very clearly by almost all of Israel's enemies that they would prefer to see the "Zionist entity" wiped off the face of the Earth. It has not been a century since Jews were faced with annihilation. So yes, when Arab leaders make these comments, the Israelis take them very seriously.

Still doesn't mean they want to commit genocide of every Jew. Besides, only 41% of Jews actually live in Israel.

 

[Dr. Gobbler]

I'm starting to root for Iran. Americans love an underdog.

Israel is surounded by enemies who outnumber it in population 50-1, in wealth and land by an even larger margin. Israel has always been the "underdog" in it's entire history and remains so today.

You mean aside from military strength and technology, you know that stuff that counts when war is declared.

Despite that, they are still the underdog. You know why? Because they cannot afford to lose a war. Nearly any nation on Earth, if they lose a war, would face a lot of terrible hardships, the death of some of its population, the forced removal of its government, etc. If Israel ever loses a war they face complete and total annihilation of it's citizenry.

Damn dude you cannot believe that seriously.

He's been indoctrinated, leave him alone.

How The Lobby indoctinates

Link of the year!!!I welcome all of you to take a gander!