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Obama To Announce Uncostitutional Amnesty (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jim11
- Start date
HellToupee
Footballguy
so the illegals can collect social security. Good job do-gooders?
timschochet
Footballguy
Here is some more from the Council of Economic Advisors:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/opinion/furman-obama-immigration-plan/index.html
Immigration reform may be a complicated issue politically, but in economic terms, the case is clear -- it is one of the biggest levers the United States has to encourage economic growth and to raise wages.
It's not just the Obama administration that thinks so.
The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development and the International Monetary Fund recently found that President Barack Obama's growth strategy, which he presented at the recent G-20 meeting in Brisbane, Australia, would add more to our economy than the steps being pursued by any other G7 country. And the single biggest contributor to that strategy? Immigration reform.
True, we can only realize the full benefits of immigration reform with a comprehensive bill passed by Congress. But the administrative steps that the President has announced -- including measures to better attract and retain high-skilled workers from around the world and to hold accountable undocumented immigrants with strong ties to the United States while providing them with temporary relief from deportation -- represent a good start and a meaningful boost to the economy.
As the President is discussing Tuesday at Casa Azafrán community center in Nashville, the main economic benefits of these actions are to raise our productivity -- increasing the amount of output we can produce for a given amount of inputs.
How do the actions announced by the President make that happen? Allowing more foreign-born entrepreneurs to come to our country -- to create jobs and to innovate -- is one common sense step to help grow the American economy. Another is enhancing the ability of science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) graduates from U.S. universities to further their on-the-job training for longer periods, something that will boost the overall skill level of the American workforce.
Less widely appreciated, but also economically important, is the contribution that offering over 4 million workers a path out of the shadows will make to our economy. And this comes as no surprise to this country's businesses. Indeed, one of the main economic arguments for this step is one that they have been making for years about their own investment -- the importance of certainty.
When faced with high levels of uncertainty, firms often hold off on making important investments for future growth. This is also true for the millions of undocumented immigrants living here in the United States. They participate in the workforce at higher rates than native-born Americans, and many are long-time members of their communities. Yet because of the uncertainty they face about their future, they are less likely to make important investments in themselves or in the communities in which they live, such as investing in their education, learning new job skills, purchasing homes or starting new businesses. And, as with firms, these decisions -- rooted in uncertainty -- can depress overall growth.In addition, as undocumented workers covered by the announced actions enter the mainstream economy as legally authorized workers, they will be able to work in jobs that better fit their particular level of skills, rather than becoming concentrated in occupations or industries where the likelihood of detection and deportation is lowest.
The higher productivity from these two sources, combined with increased labor force participation and a modest increase in the population of high-skilled immigrants, is why an analysis by the President's Council of Economic Advisers found that the announced administrative actions on immigration would grow the American economy as a whole, raising the level of GDP by at least 0.4% -- equivalent to an additional $90 billion of output in 2024.
Much of the benefit of all this will accrue to U.S.-born workers.
Our analysis shows that the administrative actions will do nothing to diminish the quantity of jobs for U.S.-born workers but will improve the quality of these jobs, raising average wages by 0.3% after a decade. These findings are based on both studies of historical experience and the fact that the additional economic activity associated with any new worker will help create demand that supports a commensurate number of additional jobs.
Specifically, U.S.-born workers will benefit from the new businesses and innovations created by high-skilled workers. For example, studies have not just found that immigrants patent at higher rates than natives, they've also found that when U.S.-born scientists increase their proximity to immigrant scientists, their rate of patenting goes up as well.
U.S.-born workers also have the potential to benefit from bringing undocumented workers out of the shadows. Better job matches for immigrants also lead to increased productivity for native workers by allowing them to specialize in the tasks best suited to their abilities as well. And incorporating undocumented workers into the mainstream economy, with the protections that it affords and the taxpaying that it obligates, protects American workers from unfair competition.
These increases in output and wages will also have positive effects on the federal budget. Since increases in growth lead to both increases in revenue (in the form of taxes) and decreases in spending (in the form of smaller interest payments on federal debt), they shrink the size of the federal deficit. Our analysis estimated that the increased growth associated with the President's actions would reduce the federal budget deficit by at least $25 billion in 2024.
All this suggests that the steps toward fixing our broken immigration system announced by the President will have real benefits for both the U.S. economy and for U.S. workers. But ultimately, these benefits are just a taste of the significantly greater benefits we would get from bipartisan legislation that brings our immigration system fully into the 21st century.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/opinion/furman-obama-immigration-plan/index.html
Immigration reform may be a complicated issue politically, but in economic terms, the case is clear -- it is one of the biggest levers the United States has to encourage economic growth and to raise wages.
It's not just the Obama administration that thinks so.
The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development and the International Monetary Fund recently found that President Barack Obama's growth strategy, which he presented at the recent G-20 meeting in Brisbane, Australia, would add more to our economy than the steps being pursued by any other G7 country. And the single biggest contributor to that strategy? Immigration reform.
True, we can only realize the full benefits of immigration reform with a comprehensive bill passed by Congress. But the administrative steps that the President has announced -- including measures to better attract and retain high-skilled workers from around the world and to hold accountable undocumented immigrants with strong ties to the United States while providing them with temporary relief from deportation -- represent a good start and a meaningful boost to the economy.
As the President is discussing Tuesday at Casa Azafrán community center in Nashville, the main economic benefits of these actions are to raise our productivity -- increasing the amount of output we can produce for a given amount of inputs.
How do the actions announced by the President make that happen? Allowing more foreign-born entrepreneurs to come to our country -- to create jobs and to innovate -- is one common sense step to help grow the American economy. Another is enhancing the ability of science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) graduates from U.S. universities to further their on-the-job training for longer periods, something that will boost the overall skill level of the American workforce.
Less widely appreciated, but also economically important, is the contribution that offering over 4 million workers a path out of the shadows will make to our economy. And this comes as no surprise to this country's businesses. Indeed, one of the main economic arguments for this step is one that they have been making for years about their own investment -- the importance of certainty.
When faced with high levels of uncertainty, firms often hold off on making important investments for future growth. This is also true for the millions of undocumented immigrants living here in the United States. They participate in the workforce at higher rates than native-born Americans, and many are long-time members of their communities. Yet because of the uncertainty they face about their future, they are less likely to make important investments in themselves or in the communities in which they live, such as investing in their education, learning new job skills, purchasing homes or starting new businesses. And, as with firms, these decisions -- rooted in uncertainty -- can depress overall growth.In addition, as undocumented workers covered by the announced actions enter the mainstream economy as legally authorized workers, they will be able to work in jobs that better fit their particular level of skills, rather than becoming concentrated in occupations or industries where the likelihood of detection and deportation is lowest.
The higher productivity from these two sources, combined with increased labor force participation and a modest increase in the population of high-skilled immigrants, is why an analysis by the President's Council of Economic Advisers found that the announced administrative actions on immigration would grow the American economy as a whole, raising the level of GDP by at least 0.4% -- equivalent to an additional $90 billion of output in 2024.
Much of the benefit of all this will accrue to U.S.-born workers.
Our analysis shows that the administrative actions will do nothing to diminish the quantity of jobs for U.S.-born workers but will improve the quality of these jobs, raising average wages by 0.3% after a decade. These findings are based on both studies of historical experience and the fact that the additional economic activity associated with any new worker will help create demand that supports a commensurate number of additional jobs.
Specifically, U.S.-born workers will benefit from the new businesses and innovations created by high-skilled workers. For example, studies have not just found that immigrants patent at higher rates than natives, they've also found that when U.S.-born scientists increase their proximity to immigrant scientists, their rate of patenting goes up as well.
U.S.-born workers also have the potential to benefit from bringing undocumented workers out of the shadows. Better job matches for immigrants also lead to increased productivity for native workers by allowing them to specialize in the tasks best suited to their abilities as well. And incorporating undocumented workers into the mainstream economy, with the protections that it affords and the taxpaying that it obligates, protects American workers from unfair competition.
These increases in output and wages will also have positive effects on the federal budget. Since increases in growth lead to both increases in revenue (in the form of taxes) and decreases in spending (in the form of smaller interest payments on federal debt), they shrink the size of the federal deficit. Our analysis estimated that the increased growth associated with the President's actions would reduce the federal budget deficit by at least $25 billion in 2024.
All this suggests that the steps toward fixing our broken immigration system announced by the President will have real benefits for both the U.S. economy and for U.S. workers. But ultimately, these benefits are just a taste of the significantly greater benefits we would get from bipartisan legislation that brings our immigration system fully into the 21st century.
timschochet
Footballguy
So once again the people who study this issue seriously from an economic viewpoint find great benefit in giving illegal immigrants legal status. Virtually every study that has been done on this issue says the same thing. Furthermore, according to the most recent polling:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-immigration-poll-20141211-story.html
Overall, 70% of Americans say that undocumented immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally "should have a way to stay in the country legally,"
It seems that conservatives here and elsewhere who oppose this are out of step with the economic facts, business leaders, and the vast majority of the American public. None of this diminishes in any way the rightness or wrongness of their views; right and wrong are not decided by majority opinion. But I have to admit that it makes me excited to be on the side of the majority- for once.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-immigration-poll-20141211-story.html
Overall, 70% of Americans say that undocumented immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally "should have a way to stay in the country legally,"
It seems that conservatives here and elsewhere who oppose this are out of step with the economic facts, business leaders, and the vast majority of the American public. None of this diminishes in any way the rightness or wrongness of their views; right and wrong are not decided by majority opinion. But I have to admit that it makes me excited to be on the side of the majority- for once.
And the Baby Boomers continue to sell out their future generations to make a few more bucks before they go off to their nice retirement and laugh at the country they've destroyed. Gotta make sure business can pay as little as possible for any job that actually requires manual labor. God forbid we let Americans actually get paid more (equivalent to what their parents and grandparents earned) for those jobs. Gotta get the stock price up another point.
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GrandpaRox
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I wrote "virtually every study." There are always exceptions of course. The Heritage Foundation is unfortunate. Years ago they were a respectable conservative voice. Now they've been taken over by Jim DeMint and the Tea Party crowd. Sad, really.
timschochet
Footballguy
The major flaw with the Tea Party study (oops, I mean Heritage Foundation) is that even if you accept their cost estimates, the illegals are ALREADY costing us that much. And despite conservative dreams, we're not going to deport them, and they're not going to self-deport. They'll either stay here in the shadows, or we give them legal status. If we give them legal status, then they will pay much more into the system than they do now. So logically even if they are costing more than they benefit (which I don't believe) it still makes sense to give them legal status.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Wait. So Republicans aren't willing to stand up to tyranny because of MexicansWalking Boot said:
Sounds like treason to me.
fatness
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Unconstitutional per district court
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/16/district-court-declares-obama-immigration-action-unconstitutional/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/16/district-court-declares-obama-immigration-action-unconstitutional/
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
For those who prefer to get their news from places other than incomplete message board postings lifted from partisan blogs, this ruling came in a criminal matter and isn't binding on the president's order. Rulings from other courts on the direct challenges will come later.
rockaction
Footballguy
The Volokh Conspiracy is a partisan blog now? Sure, it's generally a conservative/libertarian legal blog, but this is the blog that hosts Randy Barnett, who defeated the individual mandate at the Supreme Court level. It also hosts the First Amendment scholar at UCLA. When I did moot court, even the guys sent to referee our moot court referred to him as "Professor Volokh." It's so well-respected that the Post seemed to have begged to host it.
This is insanity. eta* it's also a joke of a characterization. The Halbig case rested on a mere comment from the blog. This is such a well-respected blog within the legal community, that Tobias's characterization is nothing short of nakedly partisan. It would be like arguing that SCOTUS blog's op-eds were left-wing credos.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Insanity? Settle down, Francis.
The point is that the post is not a news article. but rather a blog entry, in this case on a site that often trends conservative/libertarian, as you say. In other words it wasn't vetted by editorial staff and whatnot. You can tell because it doesn't bother to note that the matter was a criminal proceeding (eta- I see mention of "sentencing" now, originally I had searched for "criminal" in the text and didn't see it) and its precedential value is questionable, two points that I suspect you'll see when the story hits the wires and major newspapers and such.
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Sand
Footballguy
There are absolutely policies that will get folks to self deport. It would be very beneficial to flush out some of the low hanging fruit and replace with productive, net positive immigrants. Sadly the crop that has snuck in is overwhelmingly low to no skilled.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/16/federal-judge-obama-immigration-actions-unconstitutional/
Forgive the Fox link, they happen to be on Bing News.
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fatness
Footballguy
So "Judge wants to get in headline".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/16/judge-strikes-obama-immig_n_6336162.html
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
We need a lot more folks that are skilled to do what you do for the cheap. Just keep out those that do what I do as I'm already underpaid.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
When Obama was on Univision a couple years back and he begged out of helping illegal aliens because it was beyond his constitutional authority - which is something he said - he then had thrown in his face by the same Univision anchor (the guy who is on CNN in the morning these days...) ...
... so he was really embarrassed by having his own film played back to him. He tried to talk over the anchor who really challenged him and suggested he was either dissembling the first time or dissembling then and also at the same time suggesting that Obama was leaving millions more behind and in the lurch.
So now Obama's solution is that he has declared that his own powers have now somehow become expanded of his own volition? I don't know that this is going to help him in front of the courts when he tries to get this order pushed through, he's already lost once, claiming "I have more power `cuz I say so" doesn't seem too substantive.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/25/remarks-president-immigration-town-hall-miami-fl
... so he was really embarrassed by having his own film played back to him. He tried to talk over the anchor who really challenged him and suggested he was either dissembling the first time or dissembling then and also at the same time suggesting that Obama was leaving millions more behind and in the lurch.
So now Obama's solution is that he has declared that his own powers have now somehow become expanded of his own volition? I don't know that this is going to help him in front of the courts when he tries to get this order pushed through, he's already lost once, claiming "I have more power `cuz I say so" doesn't seem too substantive.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/02/25/remarks-president-immigration-town-hall-miami-fl
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tommyGunZ
Footballguy
His response should be that according to more research and analysis, his counsellors have concluded that he does in fact have the administrative powers that he didn't think he had previously.
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