***OFFICIAL*** 2012 Patriots Off-Season Thread (1 Viewer)

[captain_amazing]

***UPDATED 8-18-12***

Here's a listing of some of the relevant threads regarding the team - I'm sure there are a bunch I'm missing. I'll try and periodically update this.

General Team Discussion

New England Patriots Team Projection - Posted 04 June 2012 - 08:10 PM

2007 Pats Offense vs, 2012 Pats Offense - Posted 18 June 2012 - 10:45 AM

The Unique Case of the NE Patriots - Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:58 PM

Patriots / Saints Preseason Week 1 - Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:57 PM

QBs

Ryan Mallett - Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:59 AM

Official Tom Brady QB1 Bandwagon - Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:17 PM

WRs

Brandon Lloyd, WR, New England Patriots - Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:33 AM

Wes Welker, WR, New England Patriots - Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:13 PM

How does the arrival of Brandon Lloyd impact the Patriots' offense - Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:08 PM

TEs

Where to draft Rob Gronkowski in 2012? - Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:03 AM

Gronk......$54 million man - Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

Rob Gronkowski, TE, New England Patriots - Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:12 AM

Pats sign TE Ballard off waivers from NYG - Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:02 AM

Aaron Hernandez, TE, New England Patriots - Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:12 PM

Gronk or Graham? - Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:56 AM

NE Signs Visanthe Shiancoe..... - Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:18 PM

Gronkowski + Hernandez as flex - Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:56 AM

RBs

Shane Vereen vs. Stevan Ridley - Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:43 PM

Who is Brandon Bolden - Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:45 PM

Updated: Shane Vereen v. Stevan Ridley - Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:26 PM

The Jeff Demps watch begins! - Posted 14 August 2012 - 02:06 PM

 

[captain_amazing]

Used this and this and this to get the salary info below. I'm not entirely sure those are all accurate, but they at least provide an idea of 2011 salary figures. Used this to get the UFA status. Let me know if something is inaccurate and I'll change it. I'll also look to fill in the ??.

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTSPos.	Player    	Age 	2011 Salary 	2011 Salary CapC 	Dan Koppen	32 	$2,900,000 	$4,400,000C/G 	Dan Connolly 	29 	$1,025,000 	$1,190,614CB 	Antwaun Molden 	27 	$555,000 	??CB 	Nate Jones 	29 	??        	??DE 	Andre Carter 	32 	$1,750,000 	$2,250,000DE 	Mark Anderson 	28 	$1,000,000 	$1,375,000DE 	Shaun Ellis 	34 	$1,500,000 	$4,000,000DL/LB 	Rob Ninkovich 	28 	$685,000 	$809,786DT 	Gerard Warren 	33 	??        	??FB 	Lousaka Polite 	30 	??        	??LB 	Niko Koutovides 30 	??        	??LB 	Tracy White 	30 	$810,000 	??RB  	BJGE      	26 	$1,835,000 	$1,835,000RB 	Kevin Faulk 	35 	$910,000 	$910,000S 	James Ihedigbo 	28 	??        	??WR 	Deion Branch 	32 	$2,200,000 	$2,208,120WR 	Matthew Slater 	26 	$555,000 	$606,870WR 	Wes Welker 	30 	$2,150,000 	$4,125,000

 

[captain_amazing]

Same sources as above.

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTSPos.	Player    	Age 	2011 Salary 	2011 Salary CapQB 	Brian Hoyer 	26 	$410,000 	$422,286DT 	Kyle Love 	25 	$405,000 	$405,000S 	Brett Lockett 	25 	$405,000 	$405,000WR 	Britt Davis 	25 	??      	??C 	Ryan Wendell 	25 	$480,000 	$488,120LB 	Gary Guyton 	26 	$1,000,000 	$1,333,120CB 	Kyle Arrington 	25 	$525,000 	$725,000

 

[captain_amazing]

Same sources as above. Will update this and the rest above as new info comes out.

RE-SIGNED/SIGNEDPos.	Player         		Age 	2011 Salary 	2011 Salary CapWR 	Tiquan Underwood  	24 	480,000 	480,000TE 	Carson Butler 		24 	??      	??OG 	Donald Thomas    	26 	$555,000 	$577,147LB 	Aaron Lavarias 		23 	$96,900 	$96,900CB 	Josh Victorian 		23 	??      	??

 

[Dynasty]

On offense, the simplest strategy would be to resign Wes Welker (using the franchise tag if necessary) and then sign Brandon Lloyd to give the Patriots a better deep threat.

I don't think Lloyd will be prohibitively expensive. Other than possibly St. Louis, I don't see anybody bidding big for him.

Using money on Welker and Lloyd will make it harder to sign BenJarvus Green-Ellis. But, the Patriots already have other running back options.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

profootballfocus has a list of fa if you want to check that.

I'm assuming you listed the salaries to gauge cap space, and I think we're around 20m under, but this is so fluid it's only a very rough estimate as of right now.

people talk about cap space, but you have to look at it in the context of how many guys are signed.

pittsburgh looks to have some cap issues, and the pats are in a pretty comfortable cap spot, but I don't think you can get hung up on exact numbers, as they can borrow against next year if need be, restructure contracts, etc.

they could probably pretty easily balloon up to 30m, but you have to subtract out the rookies, re-signings, etc.

I think both parties want welker signed, and if they franchise him he becomes a cap hog, so I'd really bank on a longer term deal being worked out to shave a couple million off his cap hit.

I think they have enough space to sign one marquee name, but I don't think they have as much room as it appears that they can go crazy in fa.

I think this board has some pretty good info. for whichever pats fans don't already post there:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/patsfans-com-patriots-fan-forum.html

here's some random cap list:

http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/

Pittsburgh Steelers – $149.9

Oakland Raiders – $140.9

Carolina Panthers – $130

Dallas Cowboys – $128.9

New York Jets – $128.1

New York Giants – $124.7

Detroit Lions – $122.7

St. Louis Rams – $120.9

Arizona Cardinals – $118.7

Green Bay Packers – $118

Indianapolis Colts – $116.8

Miami Dolphins – $116.6

Houston Texans – $116.3

Minnesota Vikings – $116.1

Baltimore Ravens – $115.6

Philadelphia Eagles – $114

New Orleans Saints – $113.4

San Diego Chargers – $112

Seattle Seahawks – $111.7

Buffalo Bills – $108.4

Jacksonville Jaguars – $107.3

Cleveland Browns – $103.8

San Francisco 49ers – $102.9

Chicago Bears – $101.9

New England Patriots – $101.8

Denver Broncos – $101.4

Atlanta Falcons – $100.2

Tampa Bay Buccaneers – $98.9

Kansas City Chiefs – $95.8

Washington Redskins – $94.3

Tennessee Titans – $92.7

Cincinnati Bengals – $80.6

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

lloyd is obviously the popular pick, but I guess we'll have to wait and see what his market is, as they won't throw money at him.

I'd say rolling into the draft, you'd probably want to see a wr and center in the pipeline.

free safety is obviously an issue, and they could use another corner --- so, that's 4 right there before you even look at defensive line.

2011 defensive line was pretty solid, but that doesn't mean your 2012 defensive line is set.

we've got 5 picks in the first 3 rounds, at least one of which probably gets moved, so you can't just get every position, and who knows who the pats even like, or who falls to them, but I think those positions are the ones you'll see addressed first in fa and the draft.

i would expect them to come to terms with benny and welker, but that remains to be seen, obviously.

I'm pretty excited --- it'll be a long few weeks.

I really do think they'll make a play for one of the more visible free agents, as they have the cap to do so, and they don't usually have much interest in sitting on free cap.

maybe lloyd, one of the corners, some help on the dl --- we'll see.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

pittsburgh looks to have some cap issues,...here's some random cap list:http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/Pittsburgh Steelers – $149.9

That post was from Feb 7th, and since then PIT has restructured Woodley, Timmons, and Ike Taylor, and cut B McFadden and Arnez Battle. Estimates have them now at about 124M, and there's still work to be done with several big names possible restructures and several more who will likely be cut.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

pittsburgh looks to have some cap issues,...here's some random cap list:http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/Pittsburgh Steelers – $149.9

That post was from Feb 7th, and since then PIT has restructured Woodley, Timmons, and Ike Taylor, and cut B McFadden and Arnez Battle. Estimates have them now at about 124M, and there's still work to be done with several big names possible restructures and several more who will likely be cut.

well, that's true, but all that means is they're right at the cap, currently.they need to make those moves just to sign their rookies, or whoever else they need to fill the roster --- I doubt they've got a solid 50 guys under contract.like I said, the cap is very fluid, but it's not a great position to be in.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I think both parties want welker signed, and if they franchise him he becomes a cap hog, so I'd really bank on a longer term deal being worked out to shave a couple million off his cap hit.

Agreed, and the tag # is 9.4 million.

 

[David Yudkin]

I think both parties want welker signed, and if they franchise him he becomes a cap hog, so I'd really bank on a longer term deal being worked out to shave a couple million off his cap hit.

Agreed, and the tag # is 9.4 million.

How much do people think Welker will want to sign for? He's averaged 111 catches the pasr 5 years. I doubt it will be for much less than an average of $9.4 million. I don't see Welker's cap number being much less than that even if he re-signs. Franchising him actually helps the Pats . . . they won't have to give him a signing bonus. He's going to be 31, so it may work out better to tag him twice and revaluate him at 33.

 

[12punch]

That's a good question ---- it might be tough to find a comparable situation.

I'm sure we all remember the mankins situation, and if I remember, wilfork ended up dragging out, so let's hope they can reach an agreement sooner rather than later.

I don't want to get caught up trying to plan the 2013 roster when we're still workin' on 2012, but I'd kind of doubt the pats would want to double tag welker.

it ties up the tag in 2013 and you end up paying the guy 11m for one year.

I think they franchise him this year and work out a deal, as I'd imagine both parties are motivated to find the right price point on a 3 or 4 year deal.

He'd be screwing himself, but wes doesn't even have to sign these tags ---- but just using them as a baseline, you'd pay him 20m for 2 years on a double tag.

If you were to offer him a 12m signing bonus on a 4 year deal, backloaded with some 2014 tv money, and at a lower 2012 salary figure, like 2m, you'd be putting 14m right in his pocket and aat maybe a 5m cap hit.

but that's just a halfass example off the top of my head posting. From my phone.anyw

Anyway, I don't know if any of this matters much as the couple million the save on this year's cap isn't probably all that much of a pressing issue, unlike the last few years, and even if he didn't sign I think they could motor on.

although, I'd certainly hate to see it comme to that.

 

[David Yudkin]

That's a good question ---- it might be tough to find a comparable situation.I'm sure we all remember the mankins situation, and if I remember, wilfork ended up dragging out, so let's hope they can reach an agreement sooner rather than later.I don't want to get caught up trying to plan the 2013 roster when we're still workin' on 2012, but I'd kind of doubt the pats would want to double tag welker.it ties up the tag in 2013 and you end up paying the guy 11m for one year.I think they franchise him this year and work out a deal, as I'd imagine both parties are motivated to find the right price point on a 3 or 4 year deal.He'd be screwing himself, but wes doesn't even have to sign these tags ---- but just using them as a baseline, you'd pay him 20m for 2 years on a double tag.If you were to offer him a 12m signing bonus on a 4 year deal, backloaded with some 2014 tv money, and at a lower 2012 salary figure, like 2m, you'd be putting 14m right in his pocket and aat maybe a 5m cap hit.but that's just a halfass example off the top of my head posting. From my phone.anywAnyway, I don't know if any of this matters much as the couple million the save on this year's cap isn't probably all that much of a pressing issue, unlike the last few years, and even if he didn't sign I think they could motor on.although, I'd certainly hate to see it comme to that.

The Pats have already shown a reluctance to sign receivers for big money and longer term deals. I don't see them offering Welker a 4 year deal and a big signing bonus. They wouldn't do that for Moss, and I doubt they will do it for Welker.The numbers you were saying would be impossible to work with both from a cap management perspective and an actual contract perspective. I don't see any way they end up with only a $5 million cap hit for 2012 unless Welker played for dirt cheap).I have heard talking heads suggest Welker would sign a 3 year deal for a total of $15-18 million. I think that is way off. He will ask for $10 million a year and 40% guaranteed. It would not shock me if he asked for 4 years for a total of $42 million and $18 million as a signing bonus.He knows the Pats want him back and could get $20 million for 2 years via the franchise tag. He would be dumb to take less than that. He's averaged 111 catches and 1221 yards a year as a Patriot (including a year where he was not 100% recovering from his knee injury).

 

[12punch]

The thing about the tag, from welker's pov, is it's not guaranteed money --- just ask johnny knox.

I mean, except in the sense that one year would be guaranteed if he signs --- he's not guaranteed 20m.

So, when you say he could get 20m for 2 years, that's no sure thing, whereas the numbers I just made up would be in his bank ready to be spent, invested, or whatever.

there's something to be said for the security of cash on hand in the nfl.

they can franchise him this year, and he can wait on weekly game checks to be doled out, hoping he doesn't get hurt and produces a monster year, or he can sock 14m, or whatever figure right in the bank today.

Then you add to the total value with a fat option bonus, salary, or whatever in 2014 when they get the new tv money, and as a 3 year deal it works out.

There is just no way they're paying welker top dollar, so if that's what his agent is set on he's gonna be looking at the tag or nothing, and he better hope he doesn't get hurt again.

Anyway, I'm just pulling all this out of my tricorner hat --- I'm no amateur capologist.

 

[David Yudkin]

The thing about the tag, from welker's pov, is it's not guaranteed money --- just ask johnny knox.I mean, except in the sense that one year would be guaranteed if he signs --- he's not guaranteed 20m.So, when you say he could get 20m for 2 years, that's no sure thing, whereas the numbers I just made up would be in his bank ready to be spent, invested, or whatever.there's something to be said for the security of cash on hand in the nfl.they can franchise him this year, and he can wait on weekly game checks to be doled out, hoping he doesn't get hurt and produces a monster year, or he can sock 14m, or whatever figure right in the bank today.Then you add to the total value with a fat option bonus, salary, or whatever in 2014 when they get the new tv money, and as a 3 year deal it works out.There is just no way they're paying welker top dollar, so if that's what his agent is set on he's gonna be looking at the tag or nothing, and he better hope he doesn't get hurt again.Anyway, I'm just pulling all this out of my tricorner hat --- I'm no amateur capologist.

My point was, it is likely in the best interest of the PATS to franchise him rather than pay out a huge signing bonus to Welker given his age and his style of play. NE would likely rather pay him $9 million by tagging him this year and $11 million by tagging him again next year rather than giving him a $25 million signing bonus plus say $5 million in actual salary this year. Real money paid out is as big a concern as cap allocated money.When you dig into the numbers, Welker's production over the past several years is in the Top 5 of the league. I understand that his value to an NFL is probably lower on another team, but his value to NE is pretty high. I don't see him signing for cheap dollars. I don't see how his agent doesn't demand $10 million a year for 4-5 years. That's where it probably helps the Pats NOT to re-sign him.Under what I outlined, Welker would be locked in for 2 years and $20 million with no bonus money and less risk. After those 2 seasons, Welker would be hitting the market essentially at 33. Do many 33 year old receivers command $10 million a year? Probably not.If NE suddenly wants to start paying out for past performance and being sentimental, then maybe they give Welker what he wants. Overall, though, I don't see Welker carrying a cap number in 2012 much less than the $9 million and change that he would draw if franchised.

 

[The Jerk]

pittsburgh looks to have some cap issues,...

here's some random cap list:

http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/07/nfl-offseason-primer-team-by-team-salary-cap-projections/

Pittsburgh Steelers – $149.9

That post was from Feb 7th, and since then PIT has restructured Woodley, Timmons, and Ike Taylor, and cut B McFadden and Arnez Battle. Estimates have them now at about 124M, and there's still work to be done with several big names possible restructures and several more who will likely be cut.

Decent salary cap FAQ last updated August 29, 2011:Ask the Commish Salary Cap FAQ

 

[Boston]

The Pats are close but moves have to be made to get over the hump...in general it involves getting more playmakers (especially on defense)...right now the team is far too dependent on Brady...the area that needs to be addressed more than any other is the pass-rush...I have felt for a while that until this area improves they will not win a title and feel that way even more after watching Manning march down the field (again) for a wining TD...while the secondary needs help it doesn't matter who's back there until they get a consistent pass-rush that can harrass the QB...there are a few players who I would love to know how the Pats really feel about because it will influence what they do this offseason:

*Ras-I Dowling-The knock on him was that he's injury-prone and he didn't waste too much time living up to that label...in the short time he was healthy he looked very promising...he's got nice size and if he can stay on the field he could be a big piece for the D...

*Devin McCourty-No need to go into too much detail here because everyone knows his story...

*Sterling Moore-The kid made huge strides this year and could be a contributor going forward...

*Brandon Spikes-It took a while but he really started to come into his own near the end-of-the-year and I don't think it's a fluke that it coincided with the D playing much better...the question is can he maintain that level...hopefully he can because he brings an attitude and toughness that the D doesn't have too much of...

*Marcus Cannon-Drafted with big question marks due to his health he was able to see the field far earlier than expected...the question is do they see him as a future starter...

*Shane Vereen/Steven Ridley-What exactly do the Pats have here...Ridley showed some major flashes but some costly fumbles turned him into an MIA victim in the playoffs...it's too bad because he may have been able to make a play or two that could have made a difference...I would much rather see him in Benny's role as Benny's lack of pass-catchig ability makes the offense less diverse than it could be...Vereen didn't get much time (especially for a second-rounder) so he's a complete question mark...he seems like he may have a little giddy-up which the Pats could really use at RB...I would love to see him take over Woodhead's role next year...while Benny/Woody are nice players an upgrade in this area would make this offense even more dangerous...

As for the Pats top needs here's what I see:

1-Pass rush-I don't even think there's a close second...I would like to see this addressed at both LB and D-line...

2-More athleticism on D-Right now this unit is a little too robotic...

3-More toughness-There was a time a few years back when the Pats were the bulies...no more...this team has become too much of a finesse team and they need to get a little more nasty...

4-Secondary-They need a legit stater next to Chung...and CB is another need...

5-WR-After Welker and Branch they literally have nothing...obviously a deep threat would be huge but at the least a few players of Jabar Gaffney quality would give them more options...as for Welker I think there is almost no chance he doesn't come back...losing him would be a foolish move...think of all the rookies and veterans they have brought in who have busted and than take a look at his numbers...the guy is a stud and has not shown any signs of losing anything...

With two #1's, two #2's and healthy cap-space I really hope the Pats look at this off-season with 2012 in mind (i.e. not making moves to get 2013 draft picks)...Brady's not getting any younger and if they make the right moves they could be in position to make that play or two that has been keeping them from going the distance...this team is close and it's very obvious what they need...hopefully they address it...

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

With two #1's, two #2's and healthy cap-space I really hope the Pats look at this off-season with 2012 in mind (i.e. not making moves to get 2013 draft picks)...Brady's not getting any younger and if they make the right moves they could be in position to make that play or two that has been keeping them from going the distance...this team is close and it's very obvious what they need...hopefully they address it...

some people say this every year --- how do you think they got an extra pick in each round?

 

[Boston]

With two #1's, two #2's and healthy cap-space I really hope the Pats look at this off-season with 2012 in mind (i.e. not making moves to get 2013 draft picks)...Brady's not getting any younger and if they make the right moves they could be in position to make that play or two that has been keeping them from going the distance...this team is close and it's very obvious what they need...hopefully they address it...

some people say this every year --- how do you think they got an extra pick in each round?

I'm confused by your statement...my point is two-fold...first, with Brady getting older the present is more important than ever because the ride will not last forever...this year is the perfect example of how one more quality player could have been the difference in winning a title...secondly, while they have gotten good draft pick value in these deals IMO they really haven't capitalized on all these draft picks with the players selected...they should be far deeper after all these deals...I'm not advocating trading away future picks or offering foolish short-term contracts..I simply want them to use their picks (or trade for a veteran) this year as well as their available cap-space to make the 2012 team as strong as possible...I don't want the Brady era to end with only three titles...

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

they make the team as strong as possible every year.

everything you've said has also been said the last 5 years, but the only reason you even have extra picks is they plan ahead, and if there are moves to be made during the draft they make them, so if they had that mentality you wouldn't even have extra picks right now to talk about.

if you feel their drafting hasn't yielded players, then I don't see how drafting 2 more useless players will make a difference.

bottom line is whatever belichick is doing, he should keep doing it.

if you feel they were just one player away, then why the angst over drafting 4 in the first 2 rounds after signing some marquee fa's?

I think they have plenty of ammo without burning the 2013-14 teams, which incidentally, will hopefully be led by an aging brady whose window is closing, etc.

by the way.........

Brandon Lloyd recently signed with a new agent, St. Louis-based Tom Condon of CAA

dun dun DUNNNNNNN........!!!

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

here is football outsiders look at the afc east - cap space

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-cap/2012/under-cap-afc-east-cap-overview

 

[Boston]

they make the team as strong as possible every year.

everything you've said has also been said the last 5 years, but the only reason you even have extra picks is they plan ahead, and if there are moves to be made during the draft they make them, so if they had that mentality you wouldn't even have extra picks right now to talk about.

if you feel their drafting hasn't yielded players, then I don't see how drafting 2 more useless players will make a difference.

bottom line is whatever belichick is doing, he should keep doing it.

if you feel they were just one player away, then why the angst over drafting 4 in the first 2 rounds after signing some marquee fa's?

I think they have plenty of ammo without burning the 2013-14 teams, which incidentally, will hopefully be led by an aging brady whose window is closing, etc.

by the way.........

Brandon Lloyd recently signed with a new agent, St. Louis-based Tom Condon of CAA

dun dun DUNNNNNNN........!!!

We're going to have to agree to disagree...I'm not advocating trading future assets...just using present ones...the extra picks are great but if they're not producing quality players (or an actual body) than how does that help...I'd rather see them move up in the draft than deal down or out...the haul from these extra picks has not been what it should be which is one the reasons why their D was ranked #31 and they have so many guys like Sterling Moore or Sergio Brown trying to plug holes...fortunately for BB the GM BB the Coach can bail him out by getting something out of nothing...this team needs more playmakers if they are going to win a title instead of turning into the Ray Bourque/Cam Neeley Bruins where you're a top-tier team but just don't have enough horses to go the distance..

 

[Spike]

A question for everyone:

Why does everyone assume that getting a pass rusher in a Pats uni will solve matters? Do you REALLY think that if the Pats had drafted Clay Matthews he would be the same outstanding player/play maker he has been in Green Bay?

I have to wonder if the scheme of the Pats simply does not allow for a pass rushing monster to reveal himself.

 

[12punch]

Well, I think it kind of depends on what you're talking about.

the pats don't play the wade phillips style, or pitt style 3-4 that might produce some sexier sack totals, but getting one guy some contract stats isn't the goal.

It's funny you use matthews as example.

our defense was ranked 15th, not 31st as boston mentioned, but on boston's list who do you think is the single team to rank below the pats?

Didn't matthews put up 6 sacks last year?

meanwhile, andre carter notched 10, which is about what banta-cain put up a couple years ago, and vrabel got 13 a couple years before that.

With 11 guys on the field, and more rotated in, I don't think any single guy is going to fix a defense.

 

[Run It Up]

I dont think they can afford to wait any longer, no more trading back imo.

Need DBs, need to decide to if Shaun Ellis is worth anything going forward. I highly doubt the Pats will match the market for BJGE. Could use a WR or two, a Vet would be great - a lot of love for Brandon Lloyd, id rather see Vincent Jackson.

Need to re-evaluate moving Mccourty to safety, just needs to return to 2010 form.

 

[Boston]

A question for everyone:Why does everyone assume that getting a pass rusher in a Pats uni will solve matters? Do you REALLY think that if the Pats had drafted Clay Matthews he would be the same outstanding player/play maker he has been in Green Bay?I have to wonder if the scheme of the Pats simply does not allow for a pass rushing monster to reveal himself.

It doesn't have to come from one person...it can come from a group like it did with Vrabel-Willie-Seymour and company...yet, regardless of how they get a better pass rush it is something that has to be upgraded...right now the Pats have difficulty getting off the field on third downs and are not a match for a high-quality QB...with the NFL turning into a passing league and Wrs getting more and more freakish getting to the QB is more important than ever...

 

[Boston]

Well, I think it kind of depends on what you're talking about.the pats don't play the wade phillips style, or pitt style 3-4 that might produce some sexier sack totals, but getting one guy some contract stats isn't the goal.It's funny you use matthews as example.our defense was ranked 15th, not 31st as boston mentioned, but on boston's list who do you think is the single team to rank below the pats?Didn't matthews put up 6 sacks last year?meanwhile, andre carter notched 10, which is about what banta-cain put up a couple years ago, and vrabel got 13 a couple years before that.With 11 guys on the field, and more rotated in, I don't think any single guy is going to fix a defense.

The Pats ranked #31 against the pass, 17th against the rush, 31st in total yards and 15th in scoring...they did not have a good defense last year although it definitely played better in the postseason...I don't think anyone can argue this is a quality D or that one person is going to fix it...they need more than that...yet, I believe (and have believed for about 3-4 years) that until they can put together a legit, consistent pass-rush they are not going to have a strong D and I have seen nothing that shows me otherwise...

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

http://audio.weei.com/a/52007946/it-is-what-it-is-cast-matt-chatham-on-the-patriots-defense.htm

 

[Boston]

http://bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/

A couple of items of interest here:

1-Mike Wright gets released...looks like the concussions may cost him his career...it's too bad...he was a solid player who was really improving and should have had a bright future...

2-Marcus Cannon is being projected as a Tackle...the Pats look very good at this position with Solder, Volmer, Cannon and possibly Light for one more year (they also appear to like the kid on the practice squad)...the interior will be interesting to watch pre-draft as the status of Waters, Koppen and Connolley will dictate how much work needs to be done here...

 

[Workhorse]

I think the Pats need to get another run-stuffing, versatile D-lineman to pair with Wilfork, who moves all over the place in the 3-4. I'd also like to see them pick up a ball-hawking safety to pair with the big hitting Chung.

 

[DesmondBishop]

Just an outside perspective, if I was a Patriots fan, I would rather see them sign Brandon LLoyd and let Welker walk as they have his replacement already and he is faster and quicker and has played the position at a high level in Edelman (Also comes with a low price tag). Lloyd has already been talking up your coach and QB, and obviously wants to work with McDaniels, and Lloyd w/Brady could be pretty awesome.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I think the Pats need to get another run-stuffing, versatile D-lineman to pair with Wilfork, who moves all over the place in the 3-4. I'd also like to see them pick up a ball-hawking safety to pair with the big hitting Chung.

Isnt it the LB shortcomings that forced them into the 4-3?

 

[David Yudkin]

Just an outside perspective, if I was a Patriots fan, I would rather see them sign Brandon LLoyd and let Welker walk as they have his replacement already and he is faster and quicker and has played the position at a high level in Edelman (Also comes with a low price tag). Lloyd has already been talking up your coach and QB, and obviously wants to work with McDaniels, and Lloyd w/Brady could be pretty awesome.

Edelman is not really in the same league as Welker. He had a couple of decent games when Welker was out a few years ago, but he would only be a decent slot guy instead of an awesome one.

 

[NoGum]

Just an outside perspective, if I was a Patriots fan, I would rather see them sign Brandon Lloyd and let Welker walk as they have his replacement already and he is faster and quicker and has played the position at a high level in Edelman (Also comes with a low price tag). Lloyd has already been talking up your coach and QB, and obviously wants to work with McDaniels, and Lloyd w/Brady could be pretty awesome.

Edelman is not really in the same league as Welker. He had a couple of decent games when Welker was out a few years ago, but he would only be a decent slot guy instead of an awesome one.

I agree. Welker is invaluable in this offense. Edelman is an ok replacement but he's not in the same league as Welker. I'm hoping the Pats either tag or sign Welker long term and sign Lloyd for a year or two.Also, regarding signing Mike Wallace... As much as I like Wallace, I think they're better off signing Lloyd and keeping the 1st round pick. Lloyd would be less money than Wallace and we know that Lloyd has succeeded in a similar offense. As Alen Dumonjic points out, Wallace may not be as good a fit for the Pats as he is being made out to be.

Mastering quality route running can be a long process, especially if you are expected to read a defense’s coverage and a defender’s leverage in the process, and it’s something that Wallace is still working on.

The issue that arises in his route running is his short area quickness when he is looking to sink his hips in order to break off a route and create separation. At times, he takes too many steps to break off his route, a process that ideally takes between two and three steps. That negates his short-area quickness advantage and creates less separation to get open.

This may seem like a minor issue, but it isn’t, as it can be a bigger problem when he’s asked to run sharp routes on timing pass patterns, which are often used by the New England Patriots — a team that could be interested in the Pittsburgh speedster.

Link to entire articleWhen you factor in that Wallace will required a bigger contract than Lloyd, the fact that they'll have to give up a first round pick, and the possibility that he won't be as good a fit in the offense as Lloyd, I'm not really seeing Wallace to the Pats.

 

[Workhorse]

I think the Pats need to get another run-stuffing, versatile D-lineman to pair with Wilfork, who moves all over the place in the 3-4. I'd also like to see them pick up a ball-hawking safety to pair with the big hitting Chung.

Isnt it the LB shortcomings that forced them into the 4-3?

Belichick cited the lack of prep time due to the lockout as the main reason for the early reliance on the 4-3. The Pats run a lot of 4-3 in their sub packages though and it seemed to work quite well at the end of the season once Spikes got healthy. I think the Pats will try to bring back Mark Anderson and draft D-Line for depth.

 

[Boston]

Just an outside perspective, if I was a Patriots fan, I would rather see them sign Brandon LLoyd and let Welker walk as they have his replacement already and he is faster and quicker and has played the position at a high level in Edelman (Also comes with a low price tag). Lloyd has already been talking up your coach and QB, and obviously wants to work with McDaniels, and Lloyd w/Brady could be pretty awesome.

Could not disagree more...Welker is Brady's binky and has been the glue to that offense since he arrived...bringing in a new WR is always tricky with the Pats as many of them just can't pick it up (although on paper LLoyd seems better equipped than most due to the McDaniels connection)...veterans like Hayes, Gabriel, Galloway, Ocho Cinco and rookies like Jackson, Price, Johnson and Tate are all examples of Wrs who were clueless in this system and got kicked to the curb...Welker is a guaranteed 100+ receptions a year regardless of who the other Wrs and TEs on the Patriot roster are...losing him would dramatically change this offense (and not for the better)... as for Edelman he has not played at a high-level (unless you think 11 catches combined the last two years is a high-level) and is nowhere near the player Welker is and would be a big downgrade from Welker...maybe it's because he's a little white guy and isn't catching 50 yard bombs but some people under-rate what Welker does (especially within the context of the Patriot system)...IMO losing him would be the biggest personnel mistake in the BB era...I do agree that bringing in Lloyd would be a very good move for the Pats but not at the expense of Welker...

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Just an outside perspective, if I was a Patriots fan, I would rather see them sign Brandon LLoyd and let Welker walk as they have his replacement already and he is faster and quicker and has played the position at a high level in Edelman (Also comes with a low price tag). Lloyd has already been talking up your coach and QB, and obviously wants to work with McDaniels, and Lloyd w/Brady could be pretty awesome.

yeah, pretty much the whole patriots world has been buzzin' about lloyd because of the mcd connection, but the guy's agent might be a problem.anyway, there's no reason they'd have to choose one or the other, and I'd certainly want wes to stay, and I think he will.they're really in a pretty comfortable cap position, right now --- makes me wonder what they're scheming.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I think the Pats need to get another run-stuffing, versatile D-lineman to pair with Wilfork, who moves all over the place in the 3-4. I'd also like to see them pick up a ball-hawking safety to pair with the big hitting Chung.

Isnt it the LB shortcomings that forced them into the 4-3?

that was actually a couple years ago --- I forget when.they have always played quite a bit of 4-3, and I'll go grab a link for you out of the idp forum which might explain it even better.

anyway, it's true they went through pre and opened in a 4-3 under, I believe, which is possibly partially due to the haynesworth signing, but belichick had come out and said that they already had a lot of work on the 3-4 the previous year, and he wanted to work on the 4-3 and get it on tape to get it corrected.

the 4-3 subs is probably where they've historically had their biggest problems, and he said they'd get to the 3-4 later on, which they ended up doing for whatever reason.

pats d isn't really so easily categorized as 4-3 or 3-4 like some other defenses.

here --- check this out:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7537225/bill-belichick-vince-wilfork-new-england-patriots-defense

Aside from discussions of its general mediocrity (or worse), the hottest topic about the Patriots' defense has been how hard it is to define. Is it a 3-4 defense (the three-defensive linemen, four-linebacker defense that Belichick has run for two decades)? Or is it a "4-3" (the four-defensive linemen, three-linebacker set that New England has favored this year)? The truth is that they play a bit of both.

Then again, simple labels like 4-3 and 3-4 don't tell the full story. These 4-3 and 3-4 teams typically differ in a key respect: which "technique" their defensive linemen use. Usually, teams must commit to one technique or the other, as each choice has all sorts of other implications for the defense. It's truly a philosophical choice. Yet Belichick and his vagabond defenders have found a way to get the best of both worlds (relatively speaking) to best fit the Patriots' strengths. To understand Belichick's strategy, we have to understand how these techniques have evolved over time............

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Jonathan Fanene - DL - Patriots

Patriots signed DE Jonathan Fanene to a three-year contract.

Signing Fanene was reportedly the Patriots "first priority" after missing out on Red Bryant, and he'll likely be the team's starting left end in 2012. Fanene started just two games for the Bengals last season, but was effective against the run and tallied 6.5 sacks in just 379 snaps. He was limited to two games by a hamstring injury in 2010, but also managed six sacks in 2009.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

By Mike Reiss | ESPNBoston.com

The New England Patriots have agreed to terms with free-agent safety Steve Gregory, according to his agent, David Canter.

The three-year deal could average between $2-3 million per season.

Gregory visited with the Patriots over the past two days.

The 5-foot-11, 195-pound Gregory has been with the San Diego Chargers since entering the league as a rookie free agent out of Syracuse in 2006.

Gregory, 29, has played in 85 games during his career, initially emerging as a speedy special-teams presence before working his way into the starting lineup (31 career starts). He started a career-high 13 games last season, but one line of thinking is he was playing out of position alongside free safety Eric Weddle.

Some believe Gregory is better suited for a free safety role, which is one of the Patriots' offseason priorities to pair with Patrick Chung. The Patriots had a revolving door at safety last season.

.

 

[Workhorse]

I think the Pats need to get another run-stuffing, versatile D-lineman to pair with Wilfork, who moves all over the place in the 3-4. I'd also like to see them pick up a ball-hawking safety to pair with the big hitting Chung.

I guess Belichick is finally listening to me.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Patriots sign Trevor Scott

Mar. 17, 2012

The Patriots signed DE/OLB Trevor Scott, formerly of the Raiders. He is a low risk/high reward signing. He could be a heavy contributor if Andre Carter and/or Mark Anderson aren't resigned.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Marquice Cole - DB - Patriots

Patriots signed CB Marquice Cole, formerly of the Jets.

His first name is pronounced mar-KWEECE, Cole is a special teams gunner. According to the New York Daily News, the 28-year-old had also earned a reputation as the biggest prankster on the Jets roster.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Patriots signed TE Daniel Fells to a three-year contract.

New England was Fells' only known visit. A former undrafted free agent, Fells spent the first three years in St. Louis before signing with the Broncos last season. He started 15 of 16 games. Primarily a blocker, Fells has 88 catches in 58 career games. He'll be called on to block behind Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Aside from potentially freeing up Hernandez from some of his blocking duties, Fells won't make a fantasy impact for the Pats. Mar 19 - 8:19 AM

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Donte Stallworth - PATRIOTS

Patriots agreed to terms with WR Donte' Stallworth on a one-year contract.

The numbers aren't in yet, but it would be a surprise if the contract is guaranteed. Stallworth knows the offense and can provide the occasional presence outside the numbers, but the Pats had already picked up Brandon Lloyd and Anthony Gonzalez in the early days of free agency. Meanwhile, Deion Branch remains unsigned.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Robert Gallery - G - Patriots

Patriots agreed to terms with OG Robert Gallery on a one-year contract.

The Bill Belichick-Kirk Farentz relationship strikes again. Belichick has been a fan of Gallery since was selected at No. 2 overall in the 2004 draft. After missing 18 games over the past three seasons, Gallery may be no more than insurance in case Marcus Cannon does indeed stay at tackle. The Pats are tentatively expected to re-sign Brian Waters as well.

 

[The Comedian]

What an awesome off-season for the Patriots so far.

Also let's go ahead and bring in Tebow. Thanks.

 

[David Yudkin]

Logan Mankins tore his ACL in the second to last regular season game in 2011 but played through it in the playoffs and SB before having surgery this off season.

 

[Casting Couch]

(RotoWire) Branch and the Patriots agreed to a one-year deal Thursday, ESPN's Adam Schefter reports.

Analysis: Branch caught 51 passes for 702 yards and five scores in 2011, but he isn't guaranteed a roster spot for 2012. The Patriots are clearly trying to promote a great deal of competition beyond Wes Welker and Brandon Lloyd, as Donte Stallworth and Anthony Gonzalez were recently brought aboard.

 

[Boston]

Pats staying busy as they add another veteran...

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2012/03/add_another_fbl.html?comments=all#readerComm