***Official - 2024 Major League Baseball Thread - Royals Stink Now Since I Posted About It. I Suck At This *** (2 Viewers)

[belljr]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

I get where you are coming from but umpires can use judgement in these situations.

And in this example it was terrible. Why? Because it's an infield fly, no one even has to catch it for the batter to be out.

I understand that. But play that out a little. I know this isn't what happened, but let's say the runner completely knocked down the fielder and the ball isn't caught. Sure, the batter's out, but runners can still advance. Everyone is all upset about this because the fielder ended up getting over there and making the catch without a problem. But the umpire did and has to make the call right when the interference happens. He doesn't know how it's going to end up. I'm guessing the majority of umpires don't make the call given the situation. Their judgment would be not to call it. I just don't think it's so hair-on-fire black and white that this was some sort of horrible screwup by the umpires.

I say there is almost zero chance anyone advances since the 2b was 20ft from the play.

Also in your scenario he probably should call interference

Again it's a judgement call. MLB even said so.

However, MLB reached out to the White Sox after the game to say that the umpires do have discretion on that play and that interference didn't have to be called, the team confirmed on Friday.

 

[General Malaise]

Welcome back Patrick Bailey.

Just added him in fantasy this morning! My 4th catcher to date. Man, hard to find. Let's go Bailey!

1 hit!! That is an offensive orgy compared to what I've been getting.

 

[Todem]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

I love watching the Royals!!!

 

[shuke]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

Dude he absolutely did not interfere. What video are you watching?

 

[Pip's Invitation]

So uh... Ranger Suarez... Pretty, pretty, pretty... Pretty good.

I drafted the wrong under-the-radar Phillies starter (Sanchez).

 

[BeTheMatch]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

Dude he absolutely did not interfere. What video are you watching?

The runner was going back to second base and he cut off the shortstop trying to come in from behind the bag on his way to the ball. That's textbook interference. That's not the issue. The issue is the judgment of calling it in that situation.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

Cool, I’m sure they’re fun to watch.
Generally speaking I’m comfortable saying a huge percentage of MLB batters are swinging for the seats no matter the count or the situation. A much higher percentage in recent years

 

[CGRdrJoe]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

Dude he absolutely did not interfere. What video are you watching?

The runner was going back to second base and he cut off the shortstop trying to come in from behind the bag on his way to the ball. That's textbook interference. That's not the issue. The issue is the judgment of calling it in that situation.

he never turned around to see where the positional player was, the fielder doesn’t have their own obligation to look in front of them?

 

[BeTheMatch]

What in the world were the umpires thinking here? How does MLB write such ****ty rules

White Sox: MLB questions ump's game-ending call

The Orioles escaped Chicago on a game-ending interference call Thursday night, but MLB told the White Sox it didn't have to go that way.

www.espn.com

What were the umpires thinking? Well, to enforce the rules. He interfered. If you don't call it, then what? Just ignore rules whenever? Even if it is a judgment call, you can easily defend the judgment there to call interference. Could you also defend not calling interference there? Sure.

Love the homer announcers losing their minds when they obviously don't know the rules.

Dude he absolutely did not interfere. What video are you watching?

The runner was going back to second base and he cut off the shortstop trying to come in from behind the bag on his way to the ball. That's textbook interference. That's not the issue. The issue is the judgment of calling it in that situation.

he never turned around to see where the positional player was, the fielder doesn’t have their own obligation to look in front of them?

Nope. Fielder can do anything he wants while trying to make a play on the ball, short of malicious contact. If you even alter his path, that's interference.

 

[Chemical X]

acuna went dead banana

 

[strykerpks]

Angel Hernandez, wait

 

[snellman]

Angel Hernandez, wait

Damn, you beat me to it. Report: Oft-criticized umpire Angel Hernandez retires

 

[The Gator]

 

[Uncle Leo]

Angel Hernandez, wait

Three decades too late. He was terrible. The worst umpire I have ever seen.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Come watch the Royals play. They are winning with pitching and defense and contact hitting.

I love watching the Royals!!!

We were randomly in KC with our kids at the beginning of the year and went to a Royals game (before we all realized the Royals were actually good this year, so tickets were dirt cheap!). Bobby Witt Jr REALLY stood out to me because that dude gave full hustle on every single play. Turned a basic single into a double when the outfielder was lazy, and when he hit a routine fly ball to the outfield gave 100% full sprint around the bases and ended up on 3rd when the outfielder goofed it up.

Pretty cool to see in this day and age when everyone is trotting around, and vindicating since I coached my kid's 4th grade team last year and started the season with "we may not win every game or any game, but we're going to out hustle the other team every single time".

 

[Raging weasel]

Just bought a ticket to see Skenes pitch vs my Tiger's tomorrow. $20 ticket and $17 in fees/taxes.

 

[General Malaise]

Just bought a ticket to see Skenes pitch vs my Tiger's tomorrow. $20 ticket and $17 in fees/taxes.

 

[3C's]

Angel Hernandez, wait

Damn, you beat me to it. Report: Oft-criticized umpire Angel Hernandez retires

Stolen/modified from somewhere else.

I called him to congratulate him on his retirement but he missed the call.

 

[urbanhack]

Welcome back Patrick Bailey.

Just added him in fantasy this morning! My 4th catcher to date. Man, hard to find. Let's go Bailey!

1 hit!! That is an offensive orgy compared to what I've been getting.

Yes..but does your team consistently have an OBP of less than .200 every night??!!!!

 

[urbanhack]

"ANOTHER BLOWN CALL BY HERNANDEZ!"

x.com

x.com

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

You Got A No-No Going:

Ben Brown through seven in Milwaukee.

What a great trade that has become--Brown from Philadelphia for a few months of 37 year-old David Robertson.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Craig Counsell pulls Brown with a no-hitter (10 K's) at 93 pitches.

Sal Frelick breaks up the no-hitter off Hayden Wesneski.

 

[General Malaise]

Added in fantasy just now. Thanks Encyclopedia Brown! Love your books.

 

[The Gator]

Go Giants, suck it Phillies

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Craig Counsell pulls Brown with a no-hitter (10 K's) at 93 pitches.

 

[bcat01]

Angel Hernandez, wait

Three decades too late. He was terrible. The worst umpire I have ever seen.

He got paid to leave early. https://www.foxnews.com/sports/form...ndez-took-financial-settlement-retire-reports

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Angel Hernandez, wait

Three decades too late. He was terrible. The worst umpire I have ever seen.

He got paid to leave early. https://www.foxnews.com/sports/form...ndez-took-financial-settlement-retire-reports

If you’re too embarrassing for Rob Manfred, that’s an “accomplishment.”

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Aaron boone gone, Soto with an infield fly hip check back to second base. This one was interference imo and stupid, yes i’m an angel fan but i’ll post the video once it’s up.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

x.com

x.com

slow mo close up:
https://x.com/ballysportwest/status/1795995635608342881?s=46

link

 

[Gally]

Aaron boone gone, Soto with an infield fly hip check back to second base. This one was interference imo and stupid, yes i’m an angel fan but i’ll post the video once it’s up.

I am not sure if it was the right call. The umpire can call that interference (runner on the base and interferring with a fielder) only if the umpire deems the runner did it intentionally.

Rule 6.01(a) Penalty for Interference Comment:

A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not. If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.

Now there could be a debate on whether Soto was on base or not but being under the assumption he was on the base I would not deem Soto "intentionally" interfered with the SS. To me he was getting/on the base and it was an unfortunate set of circumstances more than intentional. I can see the call going either way and understand both sides of it. In the end if Soto would have hustled back to the back right away and just stood on the bag and then Neto backed into him just like he did I don't see how they call interference. But given how Soto went back to the back and it timed out the way it did I can understand the "intentional" interpretation.



Another interesting play came in the next inning or two when Rizzo got hit by a batted ball. The umps could have deemed he did it on purpose to prevent a double play and ruled two outs. I have no doubt in my mind that he did it on purpose to prevent the double play but did a good job of disguising it making it tough to call.

"(6) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner (see Rule 6.01(j))"

 

[bryhamm]

Aaron boone gone, Soto with an infield fly hip check back to second base. This one was interference imo and stupid, yes i’m an angel fan but i’ll post the video once it’s up.

I am not sure if it was the right call. The umpire can call that interference (runner on the base and interferring with a fielder) only if the umpire deems the runner did it intentionally.

Rule 6.01(a) Penalty for Interference Comment:

A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not. If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.

Now there could be a debate on whether Soto was on base or not but being under the assumption he was on the base I would not deem Soto "intentionally" interfered with the SS. To me he was getting/on the base and it was an unfortunate set of circumstances more than intentional. I can see the call going either way and understand both sides of it. In the end if Soto would have hustled back to the back right away and just stood on the bag and then Neto backed into him just like he did I don't see how they call interference. But given how Soto went back to the back and it timed out the way it did I can understand the "intentional" interpretation.



Another interesting play came in the next inning or two when Rizzo got hit by a batted ball. The umps could have deemed he did it on purpose to prevent a double play and ruled two outs. I have no doubt in my mind that he did it on purpose to prevent the double play but did a good job of disguising it making it tough to call.

"(6) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner (see Rule 6.01(j))"

He was not in contact with the base when he hindered him. It was the right call.

 

[Gally]

He was not in contact with the base when he hindered him. It was the right call.

The onus is on the runner to avoid contact on a batted ball so a direct path back to the base is not guaranteed in that situation. So even though Soto was in the process of making contact with the base while the contact was made by the letter of the law he was off the base and it was on him to avoid contact. I get it. I just don't think the contact was intentional and he was close enough/process to touching the base I likely wouldn't call it as it was an infield fly situation. But I understand why it was called. The rules do allow for umpire judgement in that situation (as was stated by MLB on the Chi/Bal play).


Bottom line is It was a crap play by Soto for sure because he was lazy. If he just gets back quickly there is no room for him being called out with an intentional act by him.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

A question for the Milwaukee bromigos: what's with the rage directed at Craig Counsell?

I get a certain level of animosity over rejection, but these past four days went to eleven. The booing was visceral, and way disproportionate to the situation.

He signed a 40 million dollar contract that could have been matched. That's not a budget buster for a guy who demonstrated elite skills, both in on-field strategy and in the development of pitchers. Counsell also did not take a single coach with him to Chicago, in particular Murphy (who would have come along if he hadn't gotten the job).

Calling him a traitor is good schtick. The greatest coach in the history of your state was an Italian from the Bronx who left the New York Giants to come to Green Bay.

 

[BeTheMatch]

A question for the Milwaukee bromigos: what's with the rage directed at Craig Counsell?

I get a certain level of animosity over rejection, but these past four days went to eleven. The booing was visceral, and way disproportionate to the situation.

He signed a 40 million dollar contract that could have been matched. That's not a budget buster for a guy who demonstrated elite skills, both in on-field strategy and in the development of pitchers. Counsell also did not take a single coach with him to Chicago, in particular Murphy (who would have come along if he hadn't gotten the job).

Calling him a traitor is good schtick. The greatest coach in the history of your state was an Italian from the Bronx who left the New York Giants to come to Green Bay.

Wisconsin fans have never struck me as the most educated

 

[General Malaise]

A question for the Milwaukee bromigos: what's with the rage directed at Craig Counsell?

I get a certain level of animosity over rejection, but these past four days went to eleven. The booing was visceral, and way disproportionate to the situation.

He signed a 40 million dollar contract that could have been matched. That's not a budget buster for a guy who demonstrated elite skills, both in on-field strategy and in the development of pitchers. Counsell also did not take a single coach with him to Chicago, in particular Murphy (who would have come along if he hadn't gotten the job).

Calling him a traitor is good schtick. The greatest coach in the history of your state was an Italian from the Bronx who left the New York Giants to come to Green Bay.

If they want Mike McCarthy back, Dallas would return him absent a receipt.

 

[urbanhack]

Angel Hernandez, wait

Damn, you beat me to it. Report: Oft-criticized umpire Angel Hernandez retires

x.com

x.com

 

[General Malaise]

Happy Henry Davis Day for those who celebrate it.

 

[urbanhack]

O/U on the next Royce Lewis IL stint.

I've got 10 days.

 

[Gally]

O/U on the next Royce Lewis IL stint.

I've got 10 days.

Finally, I got my guy back. Now look out Pie Leeg

 

[Todem]

@General Malaise you will love this one.

Last night….watching LSU/NC game three, winner goes to the Super Regional.

9th inning tied 4-4 LSU rolls out a kid who threw 103 pitches 48 hours. earlier. He proceeds to give up the game and throw another 35 plus pitches sitting 94MPH

TJ will be forth coming for this kid one day the way these coaches abuse arms.

This is one of the core reasons you are seeing so many arm injuries.

It’s a combination of the reach for max velo coupled with gross negligence by high school and college coaches wanting to win at all costs. The amount of damaged goods pouring into the league is at an all time high.

The UCL is a ticking time bomb because of year round travel and over use.

You simple did not have this at all in the “old” days. Kids did nit throw year round, took breaks, played other sports and billion dollar travel sports industry did not exist.

Insane.

 

[General Malaise]

I am all for kids playing as many sports as possible. I hate the model of "this is your sport, this is what you do". Hate it. My friend from HS (Trip Khuene) was the best athlete in our class. He would have been our QB if his dad let him. But he made the kid play golf and only golf after 9th grade. He was good, lost to a guy named Tiger in a playoff in the '97 Amatuer Open. That was his peak. Who knows where'd he'd be if his dad allowed him to continue in other sports.

I still think pitch counts are good and guys like Paul Skenes need a coach who can protect him from harming himself.

 

[Todem]

I am all for kids playing as many sports as possible. I hate the model of "this is your sport, this is what you do". Hate it. My friend from HS (Trip Khuene) was the best athlete in our class. He would have been our QB if his dad let him. But he made the kid play golf and only golf after 9th grade. He was good, lost to a guy named Tiger in a playoff in the '97 Amatuer Open. That was his peak. Who knows where'd he'd be if his dad allowed him to continue in other sports.

I still think pitch counts are good and guys like Paul Skenes need a coach who can protect him from harming himself.

I don’t disagree with you. The cool thing about getting to the majors though is…..you get a real off season!!!!

They go and fish, play golf, etc.

They don’t throw.

And yeah this trend of early specialization is an albatross.

 

[The Gator]

BOBBY WITT

 

[CletiusMaximus]

A question for the Milwaukee bromigos: what's with the rage directed at Craig Counsell?

I get a certain level of animosity over rejection, but these past four days went to eleven. The booing was visceral, and way disproportionate to the situation.

He signed a 40 million dollar contract that could have been matched. That's not a budget buster for a guy who demonstrated elite skills, both in on-field strategy and in the development of pitchers. Counsell also did not take a single coach with him to Chicago, in particular Murphy (who would have come along if he hadn't gotten the job).

Calling him a traitor is good schtick. The greatest coach in the history of your state was an Italian from the Bronx who left the New York Giants to come to Green Bay.

Its mostly tongue in cheek good natured stuff. Just my impression - was at 2 of the 4 Cubs games in Milwaukee last week and never got a vibe that any of this is serious. I think Counsell had fun with it as well.

 

[The Gator]

O/U on the next Royce Lewis IL stint.

I've got 10 days.

You shut your whore mouth

He's 2/2 on the year with 2 HRs

 

[Capella]

The UCL is a ticking time bomb because of year round travel and over use.

You simple did not have this at all in the “old” days. Kids did nit throw year round, took breaks, played other sports and billion dollar travel sports industry did not exist.

That and they are throwing pitches they didn’t have 30 years ago. Nobody was throwing 95 mph sliders back in 1988, they would have called him a witch.

 

[Gally]

The UCL is a ticking time bomb because of year round travel and over use.

You simple did not have this at all in the “old” days. Kids did nit throw year round, took breaks, played other sports and billion dollar travel sports industry did not exist.

That and they are throwing pitches they didn’t have 30 years ago. Nobody was throwing 95 mph sliders back in 1988, they would have called him a witch.

That goes to the max effort, max stress, most velocity possible approach. Those pitches were there 30's ago but the pitching philosophy was different so they didn't utilize them because they were more about going longer into games and not maxing everything out from pitch #1.

Thrown properly a curve/slider/fast ball stress the arm the same. Studies have shown that curve balls don't stress the arm more than any other pitch provided they are thrown properly. That myth is overblown. The real culprit is max stress to get max velo on everything while also building strength in all the surrounding muscles causing the UCL to be the weak link in the chain.....then pop.

Overuse is a contributing factor but it is more than just number of pitches on a given outing. I remember reading an article years back where Schilling and Maddox were discussing the art of pitching. It was incredible to read how these guys approached pitching. Two things stood out the most to me. First, Schilling saying that all pitches are not created equal. By that he meant he would have games where he was never in high stress situations and he could throw 150-160 pitches and could throw 50 more without a problem. Recovery time was easy and it wasn't an issue. Then he would have games with guys on base every inning and no run support and batters fouling off his best pitches extending counts and he was done after 60 pitches. His point was pitch count doesn't matter. It's situational pitches that matter. That goes into how pitchers pitch today. Every pitch is high stress trying to max velo on everything. So 60-80 pitches under that stress every outing will take a toll.

The second thing was Maddox stating that he never threw out of the windup in any bullpen session. His point was the most important pitches in a game always came out of the stretch because people were on base. So he wanted as much repetition in those situations as he could get so why waste bullpen pitches out of the windup. At that point I had never thought about that aspect and it makes sense. Just amazing technicians.

I wish I could find that article again. It was very interesting reading.

 

[Todem]

The UCL is a ticking time bomb because of year round travel and over use.

You simple did not have this at all in the “old” days. Kids did nit throw year round, took breaks, played other sports and billion dollar travel sports industry did not exist.

That and they are throwing pitches they didn’t have 30 years ago. Nobody was throwing 95 mph sliders back in 1988, they would have called him a witch.

That goes to the max effort, max stress, most velocity possible approach. Those pitches were there 30's ago but the pitching philosophy was different so they didn't utilize them because they were more about going longer into games and not maxing everything out from pitch #1.

Thrown properly a curve/slider/fast ball stress the arm the same. Studies have shown that curve balls don't stress the arm more than any other pitch provided they are thrown properly. That myth is overblown. The real culprit is max stress to get max velo on everything while also building strength in all the surrounding muscles causing the UCL to be the weak link in the chain.....then pop.

Overuse is a contributing factor but it is more than just number of pitches on a given outing. I remember reading an article years back where Schilling and Maddox were discussing the art of pitching. It was incredible to read how these guys approached pitching. Two things stood out the most to me. First, Schilling saying that all pitches are not created equal. By that he meant he would have games where he was never in high stress situations and he could throw 150-160 pitches and could throw 50 more without a problem. Recovery time was easy and it wasn't an issue. Then he would have games with guys on base every inning and no run support and batters fouling off his best pitches extending counts and he was done after 60 pitches. His point was pitch count doesn't matter. It's situational pitches that matter. That goes into how pitchers pitch today. Every pitch is high stress trying to max velo on everything. So 60-80 pitches under that stress every outing will take a toll.

The second thing was Maddox stating that he never threw out of the windup in any bullpen session. His point was the most important pitches in a game always came out of the stretch because people were on base. So he wanted as much repetition in those situations as he could get so why waste bullpen pitches out of the windup. At that point I had never thought about that aspect and it makes sense. Just amazing technicians.

I wish I could find that article again. It was very interesting reading.

Dude I love this post. And my point about Skenes is once he learns how to become more efficient he will go longer in games.

“The Art of Pitching” has been lost by a lot of guys in todays game. This is really the entire crux of what I was pointing out.

People may think pitching is better today. I contend it is more overpowering but it sure does not make for “better” baseball long term….both for the entertainment value and more importantly the long term health of all these arms.

They are being used up much quicker then the guys we admired who pitched a decade, decade and a half….and I am not even talking about HOF guys….I am talking about regular joe journeymen who had long productive careers being more “artful” with their approach.

And the same can be said of hitters. The approach today is not anything resembling the game we have watched for 40 plus years. Yes there are guys who still hit for contact and OBP but they are becoming less and less.

I happen to believe you will see that pendulum swing in the future as these guys throwing keep getting hurt and the owners figure out they can’t invest in these arms and get a real return on that investment.

In the meantime I have been loving the NCAA regionals this year as usual.

And go Yankees!!!!!

 

[3C's]

The UCL is a ticking time bomb because of year round travel and over use.

You simple did not have this at all in the “old” days. Kids did nit throw year round, took breaks, played other sports and billion dollar travel sports industry did not exist.

That and they are throwing pitches they didn’t have 30 years ago. Nobody was throwing 95 mph sliders back in 1988, they would have called him a witch.

That goes to the max effort, max stress, most velocity possible approach. Those pitches were there 30's ago but the pitching philosophy was different so they didn't utilize them because they were more about going longer into games and not maxing everything out from pitch #1.

Thrown properly a curve/slider/fast ball stress the arm the same. Studies have shown that curve balls don't stress the arm more than any other pitch provided they are thrown properly. That myth is overblown. The real culprit is max stress to get max velo on everything while also building strength in all the surrounding muscles causing the UCL to be the weak link in the chain.....then pop.

Overuse is a contributing factor but it is more than just number of pitches on a given outing. I remember reading an article years back where Schilling and Maddox were discussing the art of pitching. It was incredible to read how these guys approached pitching. Two things stood out the most to me. First, Schilling saying that all pitches are not created equal. By that he meant he would have games where he was never in high stress situations and he could throw 150-160 pitches and could throw 50 more without a problem. Recovery time was easy and it wasn't an issue. Then he would have games with guys on base every inning and no run support and batters fouling off his best pitches extending counts and he was done after 60 pitches. His point was pitch count doesn't matter. It's situational pitches that matter. That goes into how pitchers pitch today. Every pitch is high stress trying to max velo on everything. So 60-80 pitches under that stress every outing will take a toll.

The second thing was Maddox stating that he never threw out of the windup in any bullpen session. His point was the most important pitches in a game always came out of the stretch because people were on base. So he wanted as much repetition in those situations as he could get so why waste bullpen pitches out of the windup. At that point I had never thought about that aspect and it makes sense. Just amazing technicians.

I wish I could find that article again. It was very interesting reading.

Maybe this one: https://www.si.com/mlb/2024/04/19/pitcher-injury-crisis-greg-maddux

He would throw more warmup pitches from the stretch than from the windup (the opposite of just about every pitcher) and when I asked him why, he replied brilliantly, “When do you have to execute your biggest pitches?”

 

[Gally]

Maybe this one: https://www.si.com/mlb/2024/04/19/pitcher-injury-crisis-greg-maddux

That is a great article and really solidifies that what I am thinking is correct with regards to injuries. Having a son that is a pitcher and is ready to start his college career next year I have seen a lot of this approach to velocity. Gally Jr doesn't pitch this way. He doesn't rely on 90+ (he tops out at about 86) but he throws with movement, speed changes and pitch sequencing to execute his pitches. He had an ERA of 0.71 In 78 innings this year with more complete games than earned runs. But since he doesn't throw in the 90's he got zero D1 interest. We were told by his HS coach that the local D1 school won't even look at pitchers if they don't throw 90+. It is very disheartening.

So he will be heading to a D2 school next year and it will be interesting to see how his approach translates at that level. It will be a lot of work for him but I think he knows how to pitch rather than just throw and that will be a big benefit for him.

ETA: That wasn't the article I was referencing. The article I read was from probably 20 years ago. I am not even sure what publication it was in. I think it was in a coaching newsletter of some sort.