***official*** Buy Low Thread (1 Viewer)

[Limp Ditka]

Timmy - 32Ks in 25 innings. 2.16 ERA / 1.20 WHIP.

I know you're trying to make an argument for your point, but come on. You're expecting too much from a SP if you are disappointed with that in a four-start stint from ANY starter against ANY set of major league opponents. Those numbers are still #1 SP numbers. Hardly anything that would make an owner wish he'd moved his best pitcher in a trade.Kinsler has lit it up as of late, and that's great. It's about time he did something for the people that spent an early round pick on him. Uggla, on the other hand....

With Timmy it really has been brilliant or bad. That Oakland outing was awful. 10 runners in 6 innings of work against Oak? He owns that teams and was lucky to only give up 2ER. I watched a good bit of last night's game and he was very hittable against SD.My stance from the get-go is that he's not a top 5 pitcher anymore, thus the offer should have been responded to. Since this discussion initiated, he's ranked 44th among eligible SPs in my main points league. I could see the value being higher than that in roto due to the Ks, but 53 pitchers that have started at least 3 games over that time have a better WHIP. Think about that, 53. 30 SPs (same min 3 games started) have a better ERA. And I doubt very many of them faced 4 weaker opponentsHe's not what he once was and even with Gregg being the reliever, the Kinsler side of that deal is looking really good right now.

 

[RnR]

I think you may be over-analyzing a super small sample size here. So he's 44th in your points league and 53 pitchers have posted a sub-1.20 WHIP over the span of his last four starts. What are we learning from that snapshot in time? That's the equivalent of roughly 11% of his total season output.

Over that 11% of 2011: 1.20 WHIP

Over the full 2011 season: 1.19 WHIP

Over his full career: 1.18 WHIP

I'd say that's pretty much on par with what you should expect from Lincecum in terms of WHIP. His value has always been in K's first and foremost, ERA 2nd, and then probably wins. WHIP is the ***** in his armor, if you want to even call it that.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What about Lackey in a keeper? Any chance this guy ever bounces back to pre Red Sux days?

 

[shadyridr]

What about Lackey in a keeper? Any chance this guy ever bounces back to pre Red Sux days?

I would say none. Shouldnt even be on a roster IMO

 

[RnR]

And since Dan Uggla was the 2B the Timmy owner had, let's see what he's done.....143 / .205 / .3254 HR / 11 RBI / 10 R / 0 SBOOF

Since your post... Uggla: .800 / .875 / 1.6002 HR / 3 RBI / 4 R / 0 SBSee what I did there... ?

 

[Oh Yes!]

heyward

 

[the moops]

And since Dan Uggla was the 2B the Timmy owner had, let's see what he's done.....143 / .205 / .3254 HR / 11 RBI / 10 R / 0 SBOOF

 

[Limp Ditka]

And since Dan Uggla was the 2B the Timmy owner had, let's see what he's done.....143 / .205 / .3254 HR / 11 RBI / 10 R / 0 SBOOF

Beast. I was wrong about him turning it around.But remember my position in doing that trade. It put you in a position of trading strength if Uggla woke up. That's where rascal would be right now.

 

[Wrigley]

Carlos Lee would be a nice buy low guy

 

[Limp Ditka]

Carlos Lee would be a nice buy low guy

That was last year. Who was that knuckle head trolling around here telling us he had no place in a 20 team league?

 

[RnR]

And since Dan Uggla was the 2B the Timmy owner had, let's see what he's done.....143 / .205 / .3254 HR / 11 RBI / 10 R / 0 SBOOF

Beast. I was wrong about him turning it around.But remember my position in doing that trade. It put you in a position of trading strength if Uggla woke up. That's where rascal would be right now.

Oh, yeah, and Lincecum's ERA since that trade has been a smidge over 1.00.

 

[Limp Ditka]

And since Dan Uggla was the 2B the Timmy owner had, let's see what he's done.....143 / .205 / .3254 HR / 11 RBI / 10 R / 0 SBOOF

Beast. I was wrong about him turning it around.But remember my position in doing that trade. It put you in a position of trading strength if Uggla woke up. That's where rascal would be right now.

Oh, yeah, and Lincecum's ERA since that trade has been a smidge over 1.00.

I was wrongLimpspin....5X5 he's only helping in 3 cats

 

[Limp Ditka]

Update on Lincecum ERA needed

 

[the moops]

Update on Lincecum ERA needed

You said it best

I was wrong

 

[Limp Ditka]

****Limp Retraction****

I wasn't wrong

While Timmy put up some great numbers in Ks (118 / 6th among SPs) and ERA (1.91 3rd), his WHIP (1.19 / 32nd) wouldn't qualify as special and he only went 8-7 (8 wins tied for 19th with 13 other pitchers) since that trade offer.

Going by standard 5X5, Timmy helped in Ks and ERA, didn't impact in WHIP and W, and obviously doesn't impact Save.

Kinsler never got hurt. Slashed .261 / .348 / .520

Counting stats (rank among 2B)

R 71 (1st by 11)

HR 22 (2nd by 3. Next closest is Pedroia's 15)

RBI 50 (5th and a damn good # for a leadoff hitter)

SB 13 (3rd and one could argue that Eric Young and his 18 weren't fantasy worthy making him 2nd to Weeks 21)

Good argument that Kinsler was the most valuable 2B in baseball since June 13th.

No one's arguing that Timmy was the best pitcher over that stretch. More like a top borderline top 10 guy.

Throw in a closer in that trade, to go with Kinsler, and it's wasn't that bad of an offer and certainly deserved a response.

 

[RnR]

 

[Limp Ditka]

I know it's going to be hard, but instead of being an ###, why don't you detail why you think you were right?

 

[RnR]

I know it's going to be hard, but instead of being an ###, why don't you detail why you think you were right?

I'm not wasting my time digging any deeper into this than I have to, because quite frankly it is pathetic that you're this worried about whether you save face on a message board. This trade would've happened in what? Mid June? For the sake of time, I'm just grabbing the 2nd half numbers for each guy in the discussion.

Players the guy had:

Tim Lincecum: 1.87 ERA, 1.139 WHIP, 6-5 (12 GS), 80 K in 81 IP

Dan Uggla: .307/.391/.585 with 20 HR, 44 RBI, and 42 Runs.

Players that were offered in the trade:

Ian Kinsler: .246/.319/.488 with 16 HR, 39 RBI, 50 Runs, and 6 SB.

Kevin Gregg: 6.75 ERA, 2.01 WHIP, 5 saves, and 22 K's in 21 IP.

If you want to break down all 4 of those guys to June 13th, be my guest. My belief is that you'll still see a clear advantage to the first group in terms of an impact on a fantasy team.

You have to factor in what Uggla produced at his 2B slot to properly assess the trade. You also have to factor in the effect of either Kevin Gregg or a waiver wire level replacement SP for this fella to replace Lincecum in the deal. If you can't figure out why the guy was better off standing pat on that trade, you're beyond help and should maybe take up a new hobby.

PS- Way to be an internet tough guy, really roughed me up by calling me an ###. Clearly made it sound like you were right. Right?

 

[Limp Ditka]

I know it's going to be hard, but instead of being an ###, why don't you detail why you think you were right?

I'm not wasting my time digging any deeper into this than I have to, because quite frankly it is pathetic that you're this worried about whether you save face on a message board. PS- Way to be an internet tough guy, really roughed me up by calling me an ###. Clearly made it sound like you were right. Right?

Yes - this is exactly what I am doing.



You really think I'm worried about what some guy named RnR thinks of what's posted under my moniker? About saving face? Think again.

All I'm doing is continuing the conversation and looking back at it. That's kind of why we voice our opinions in the first place.

And as for your explanation, it shows that all you care about is your opinion and that any reasoning I provided fell upon deaf ears.

1. I said if I got the offer, I'd go for a better closer. I wouldn't have accepted it with Gregg. (this is what started all of this. Your 'cool fantasy baseball know it all guy' stance that it didn't warrant a reply)

2. I said that if I could pull off the trade, and Uggla turned it around, I'd have two of the better 2Bs in the league to use in a later trade, if needed. Do you remember that rascal wasn't getting Uggla back? If so then why are you putting Uggla on the Lincecum side and only the Lincecum side?

And with 2, if he had a utility slot or extra MI slot to put a player in, then there was no reason to move Uggla at all and he came up aces in this trade.

If you're not going to take those things into consideration, then there's no sense in furthering any communication with you. Its one sided and will obviously remain that way which kind of solidifies the ### comment.

 

[RnR]

Yeesh. If that isn't what you're doing, then why are you rehashing a 4-month-old failed trade proposal that SOMEONE ELSE on this board made to a complete stranger in a league you know nothing about?

You're trying to make this personal and that's weird to me. You can call me whatever you want and think I only care about whatever agenda you think I'm pushing, no skin off my back. I have no intention of furthering this discussion.

Some people are fascinating.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Yeesh. If that isn't what you're doing, then why are you rehashing a 4-month-old failed trade proposal that SOMEONE ELSE on this board made to a complete stranger in a league you know nothing about? You're trying to make this personal and that's weird to me. You can call me whatever you want and think I only care about whatever agenda you think I'm pushing, no skin off my back. I have no intention of furthering this discussion. Some people are fascinating.

If you're concerned about this being someone else's deal, then why did you voice your opinion in the first place? And if you don't like the possibility of having your opinion be wrong ( I know... god forbid, right?) then maybe you should stop voicing those opinions.