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Official Donald Trump for President thread (4 Viewers)

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Let's break this down.  "Russia" hacked DNC servers and posted their embarrassing emails to each other on wiki leaks.

Democrats say this influenced the election. 

Where oh freaking where are these voters who were going to vote for Hillary but saw those leaked emails and said "heck, guess I've gotta vote for Trump now". It's a ridiculous assertion to say that those emails changed the mind of one voter, much less enough to sway an election.

This board is pretty representative of the population.  Honestly guys, were any of you going to vote for Hillary but those emails (and specifically those leaks) changed your vote to Trump?  Come on.  It's not like these candidates were so close policy wise that people were on the fence and THIS tipped the scales.

 
I think that one of the things you may be miss identifying as a "cult" feature is that most Trump supporters do not care about what they consider nonsense and noise. At the end of the day Trump tweeting that he likes taco bowls and Vanity fair sucks means nothing. No matter what outrageous tweet Trump puts out, it is not a policy, platform or actionable item you think it is crazy that people don't denounce every irrelevant thing the guy throws out there. 
We're going to have to agree to disagree there.

 
HRC leaked them and said he paid no taxes in a debate.  Trump acknowledged that he was under an audit and of course he did not pay anything.  The media ran that story everywhere.  It hurt Trump for awhile, but in the end people had to choose between HRC or Trump and decided not to vote for the candidate in bed with the people financing 9/11 and ISIS.  Oh and those spirit dinners.  Had only that surfaced months earlier instead of right before people were to vote... 
You require evidence to believe certain things, saying "Show me the evidence" but you take hook line and sinker that HRC leaked his tax returns.

They were a limited subset of his returns from a period of time over 20 years ago.  He said he would release all of his tax returns, and did not - he lied, but you don't care about it because Trump tells you not to care about it.  

If we were able to see the holdings his company has, the company he will not divest from, we might see that he has disproportionate exposure to things he might not want us to see.

It's funny...during the campaign, he admitted that donating money to political causes got him Access...and he spread his money around.  Yet he expects us to not believe that if others all over the world funnel money to his Trump organization, benefitting him and his family, that they won't get access.  Are you kidding me?  

 
Let's break this down.  "Russia" hacked DNC servers and posted their embarrassing emails to each other on wiki leaks.

Democrats say this influenced the election. 

Where oh freaking where are these voters who were going to vote for Hillary but saw those leaked emails and said "heck, guess I've gotta vote for Trump now". It's a ridiculous assertion to say that those emails changed the mind of one voter, much less enough to sway an election.

This board is pretty representative of the population.  Honestly guys, were any of you going to vote for Hillary but those emails (and specifically those leaks) changed your vote to Trump?  Come on.  It's not like these candidates were so close policy wise that people were on the fence and THIS tipped the scales.
Of course it influenced votes.

Even if we are going to act like it didn't that's not the point.

 
Let's break this down.  "Russia" hacked DNC servers and posted their embarrassing emails to each other on wiki leaks.

Democrats say this influenced the election. 

Where oh freaking where are these voters who were going to vote for Hillary but saw those leaked emails and said "heck, guess I've gotta vote for Trump now". It's a ridiculous assertion to say that those emails changed the mind of one voter, much less enough to sway an election.

This board is pretty representative of the population.  Honestly guys, were any of you going to vote for Hillary but those emails (and specifically those leaks) changed your vote to Trump?  Come on.  It's not like these candidates were so close policy wise that people were on the fence and THIS tipped the scales.
I agree but there may have been some who said "thats it I can no longer support her" and then voted for a 3rd party candidate or just stayed home.

 
 I don't think it was a given HRC was going to beat Sanders.  Some suggest both NY and CA were stolen from Bernie.  Among my CA friends, people I know voted Bernie about 15 to 1 over HRC.  A recount in those states might have shown similar things to what transpired in Detroit.  Additionally, the night before Super-Tuesday, the AP (and all of the HRC aligned media that were exposed through WikiLeaks) ran with the story that HRC has won.  Talk about interference with an election.  Announcing this the night before Super-Tuesday and the only way HRC would have enough votes is if the Super Delegates vote the way they stated in the phone call (Super Delegates flipped for Obama once he was shown to be the superior candidate).

HRC sucks at debates (learned from the loss to Obama) so let's have hardly any of those.  When she will debate, let's make sure she gets fed the questions so she passes as a good candidate.  Let's have all of our pro-HRC stories queued up.  Let's plant media stories attacking Bernie's faith and other "progressive policies".  Had this election been run fairly and Super Delegates chimed in at the end, Bernie Sanders would be the President of the United States.

HRC could have had 10% of the vote and the DNC was going to choose her.  That was why DWS was placed in that position (and Kaine promised the VP role to a HRC win).  The WikiLeaks show that email exchange.




1
what? that outdated election machines need to be replaced?

 
Sure. 

1. Complete ban on Muslim immigration - (has walked it back) 

2. Allowing the conservatives to push him further right on abortion issues. 

3. His hardline about amnesty. - (walked back at this point) 

My point is that the things that I don't like about Trump are actual policy or substantive issues.  I think that one of the things you may be miss identifying as a "cult" feature is that most Trump supporters do not care about what they consider nonsense and noise. At the end of the day Trump tweeting that he likes taco bowls and Vanity fair sucks means nothing. No matter what outrageous tweet Trump puts out, it is not a policy, platform or actionable item you think it is crazy that people don't denounce every irrelevant thing the guy throws out there. 
Saying Trump voters don't care about nonsense and noise is like saying Deadheads don't care about jam band music and hallucinogenic drugs.

 
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I guess I'm stupid because I don't really get the Russia / Putin hate.

In one corner we had a candidate who KNOWS Saudi Arabia and QATAR funded 9/11 and continues to fund ISIS and she was more than happy to take their $6M+, sell them massive arms, etc.  

But RUSSIA.  Sorry, no other bad guys in the world are as bad as the line above.

Make no mistake.  I am not here to defend Russia, China, and other Nationalistic parties.  They do things that benefit their countries only.  But I prefer a president who is not ratcheting up tensions against these super-powers.

This requires a leap of faith, but hear me out.

- Our intelligence has stated that 5 states accessed HRCs servers.  We know this server included 7 SAPs so it's likely they understand the nation's darkest secrets / plans of instability, and the worst of our past indiscretions of de-stabilizing governments, rigging other countries elections, etc.  

- Had Hillary taken power, this info likely would be used to "blackmail" the US or would have resulted in absolute conflict between the Super Powers.

- Trump is new.  He had nothing to do with said warplans, de-stabilization of the Middle East, or our past indiscretions.  None of us have a clue what he will do, including Russia.  Fear of the unknown is scary, but the alternative (blackmail/war) was likely worse.


Not for nothing, but calling the One China policy into question might be seen as "ratcheting up tensions"...

Now, I am not saying that it is necessarily a bad idea - but it is fraught with uncertainty, and you would hope that such a shift has been carefully considered, and that it has an end-game in mind.  It could be that Trump is just ####### with China to see their re-action - but given the 3 global powers - I prefer that we not cozy up to one, while alienating the other.

 
Slate takes the Globalist money. They are on my :lmao:  list personally. 
David - wouldn't you say engineering, computer science and math is sort of your wheelhouse? Is that fair? Would you agree to post some sort of article from a technical publication which in your view is pretty apolitical and unconnected providing some forensic or technical research on this issue? 

 
Let's break this down.  "Russia" hacked DNC servers and posted their embarrassing emails to each other on wiki leaks.

Democrats say this influenced the election. 

Where oh freaking where are these voters who were going to vote for Hillary but saw those leaked emails and said "heck, guess I've gotta vote for Trump now". It's a ridiculous assertion to say that those emails changed the mind of one voter, much less enough to sway an election.

This board is pretty representative of the population.  Honestly guys, were any of you going to vote for Hillary but those emails (and specifically those leaks) changed your vote to Trump?  Come on.  It's not like these candidates were so close policy wise that people were on the fence and THIS tipped the scales.
There are a lot of people who are so easily influenced to vote one way or another, where this was the main thing that tilted the balance for them.  There were others who became disenchanted with Hillary because of all the negative stuff out there and just stayed home.  This board is not representative of the population.

 
95% of anti-Trumpers have conceded that Hillary sucked and deserved to lose, while 95% of Trumpsters here just keep bringing Hillary up and don't seem to care that Russia purposefully attacked and compromised our political infrastructure.  Party before country. 
This.  

''Our guy won, you guys are sore losers.''  Pay no attention to the hacking, or that Trump isn't even pretending to keep any campaign promises.  

Dip####s

 
It's simple.  Show me where the FBI director and the Director of National Intelligence agrees with the made up story that the CIA is promoting.  This is not the CIAs call to make.  It's like Obama's brother making statements.  
Show me where they dont agree other than a freaking newsmax article whose source is the donald trump campaign. 

The cia is now akin to a whacky relative?  Wow.  Your brand is suffering. 

 
Let's break this down.  "Russia" hacked DNC servers and posted their embarrassing emails to each other on wiki leaks.

Democrats say this influenced the election. 

Where oh freaking where are these voters who were going to vote for Hillary but saw those leaked emails and said "heck, guess I've gotta vote for Trump now". It's a ridiculous assertion to say that those emails changed the mind of one voter, much less enough to sway an election.

This board is pretty representative of the population.  Honestly guys, were any of you going to vote for Hillary but those emails (and specifically those leaks) changed your vote to Trump?  Come on.  It's not like these candidates were so close policy wise that people were on the fence and THIS tipped the scales.
See, this is well done fishing.  Posting BS with your real username/name and ruining your reputation by appearing mentally unstable on the site you own is not

 
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Trump’s Team of Rivals, Riven by Distrust

Mike Flynn, Jim Mattis, and Rex Tillerson don’t have much in common with each other — or Donald Trump. But together they might revolutionize American foreign policy.

By Thomas Wright

December 14, 2016

Understanding Donald Trump’s foreign policy is truly an exercise in separating the signal from the noise. Trump says and does so much, often on a whim, that it can overwhelm the senses. There is so much that he knows so little about — Taiwan, for instance — that it is hard to say if small actions are part of a coherent strategy or if he’s simply winging it.

But now that the president-elect has announced his picks for key foreign-policy positions, his foreign policy is starting to become clear or at least clearer. Though Trump’s own foreign-policy views are captured by his “America First” slogan, his administration will be split between three national security factions — the America Firsters, the religious warriors, and the traditionalists — each of which distrusts the others but also needs them to check the third. The question is what effect this power struggle will have on U.S. foreign policy, particularly amid a crisis — and whether Trump, over time, will insist on asserting his personal will against the other factions with which he has surrounded himself.

America First

Few people think of Trump as a foreign-policy thinker. He has been on every side of numerous issues, including climate change, Syria, North Korea, Iraq, and nuclear weapons. However, it is indisputable that Trump has a small number of core beliefs dating back three decades about America’s role in the world. His overarching worldview is that America is in economic decline because other nations are taking advantage of it.

Three beliefs stand out. Trump has been a staunch critic of America’s security alliances since 1987 and has demanded that U.S. allies transfer vast sums of money to the United States in exchange for protection. He has opposed every trade deal the United States has signed since World War II and advocated for the widespread use of tariffs. And he has a soft spot for authoritarian strongmen, particularly of the Russian variety. This appears to date back to 1990 when he visited Russia and came back deeply disillusioned in Mikhail Gorbachev and convinced that Moscow should have emulated China’s repression in Tiananmen Square. Trump has been consistent on each of these issues for 30 years. For a detailed analysis of his statements and writings on these topics, see here and here. Trump repeatedly raised these views in the campaign, even when it was politically risky to do so (as in his praise of Vladimir Putin).

The big question has been whether and how Trump may act on these beliefs and convert them into policy. Trump is unlikely to unilaterally withdraw from America’s treaty alliances and commitments, but he is also unlikely to support and uphold them as much as his predecessors have. If one looks closely at his statements over the past three decades, Trump’s frustration is that the United States gets little for protecting other countries or securing the global order, which he sees as a tradable asset that America can use as a bargaining chip with friend and foe alike.

For instance, when asked in an interview with Fox News Sunday about his call with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen, he said, “I don’t know why we have to be bound by a One-China policy unless we make a deal with China having to do with other things, including trade.” The implication was that if China were to make major concessions on the economic front, Taiwan may be on the table. Indeed, the Taiwan call fits into the negotiating framework described in his book The Art of The Deal, which describes how Trump would open up previously closed issues to get leverage that could later be traded in a negotiation. So, what is it that Trump wants? Anecdotal evidence from the past month suggests that his top concern in discussion with foreign leaders and diplomats is: “What’s in it for America economically?” He wants major concessions on the terms of America’s economic relationship with other countries, including greater direct investment in the United States.

This would be a revolutionary diplomatic strategy. For 70 years, the United States has protected its alliances and refused to abandon them under pressure from rivals. The United States does not do deals with Russia and China over the heads of its friends — the mantra has been “nothing about you without you.” Trump is signaling something different. Allies that are seeking bilateral trade deals with the United States should be cautious. The United Kingdom, for instance, may find that a President Trump will ask London what it is willing to pay for continued military and intelligence cooperation.

The mystery in all of this is why Trump is so keen to work with Russia. The United States has little economic interest in the Russian economy. Trade and investment are miniscule compared with China. And Russia has very little that the United States wants. Instead, the demand for change comes almost entirely from Russia — on NATO, sanctions, and in the Middle East. But Trump’s fondness for Russia, however idiosyncratic, is long-standing and unwavering.

But although Trump may have strong foreign-policy views, he does not have a large cadre of followers willing and capable of turning his worldview into reality. Steve Bannon, his chief strategist and an avowed nationalist, is an exception, though he is not a foreign-policy professional. The Republican Party’s foreign-policy establishment overwhelmingly rejected Trump because they took him at his word and saw him as a threat to the U.S. postwar strategy. Some — the #NeverTrumpers — signed a letter opposing him. Others left the door open to serving but primarily because they wanted to prevent him from realizing his decades-old ambition. Trump lacked allies for his cause, but he found them in another place.

Religious warriors to Trump’s rescue

Republican foreign policy since 9/11 has had two basic strands, which sometimes contradict each other. The first is that the United States is in an existential fight against radical Islam. The second is that America’s global interests involve the maintenance of U.S. leadership in Europe and East Asia — interests, in other words, that extend far beyond combating radical Islam. The Republican establishment has always toed the line on the first, but it has increasingly focused much more on the second. The global war on terror has, of late, taken second place to balancing China and containing Russia.

But a group within the Republican tent never made this shift. These are the people who believe the United States is engaged in a war against radical Islam that is equivalent to World War II or the Cold War. They believe it is a struggle rooted in religion to which all else should be subservient — that America’s overwhelming focus must be on radical Islam instead of revisionist powers in Europe or Asia. They also generally favor moving away from a values-based foreign policy to harsh methods to wage a major war.

For the most part, the leaders of this school of thought have been dismissed as cranks or ideologues. But their views were widely shared in the Republican electorate, who were increasingly alarmed by the Islamic State. And they found an ally in Trump.

In January and February, Trump was under pressure to unveil a foreign-policy team. The Republican foreign-policy establishment overwhelmingly condemned him, largely because of his America First views. It was at this point that retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn started advising him. Flynn won plaudits in the mid-2000s for his role in the intelligence effort against al Qaeda in Iraq, but when he was appointed head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, he ran into trouble for his management style and policy views. He was forced out of his position and subsequently made it clear that he thought the Obama administration was not taking radical Islam seriously. Several weeks after Flynn came on board, Trump rolled out a list of foreign-policy advisors. Most were completely unknown, but the name Walid Phares stood out. Phares has a controversial past as a leading figure in a Lebanese Christian militia and is known as a hard-liner in the war on terror. Other such hard-liners would follow.

Trump made the fight against radical Islam the heart of his foreign policy in the campaign, and it allowed him to promote his America First worldview by translating it into terms recognizable to Washington. Being pro-Russia is not a popular position in U.S. politics, but it sounds more plausible if voters believe that radical Islam is an existential threat. The specter of radical Islam also provided a context for Trump’s view that NATO is obsolete and the United States is doing too much in Asia.

The effect of this alliance was to elevate advisors and politicians who believe that radical Islam is a new world war that justifies an extraordinary response. This group sees Trump as a means of waging the war on terror, but they do not fully buy into the rest of his worldview. Even though they see other challenges as secondary, they are reluctant to collapse U.S. influence in Asia and Europe and hand those regions over to China and Russia. During the campaign, there were numerous reports that these advisors had personally assured foreign ambassadors that Trump did not really mean what he said on alliances and trade. He was, they said, looking for a marginally better deal. Notably, this never came from Trump himself, and it is unlikely that he knew of these briefings. Whenever Trump spoke on these topics — in the debates or at rallies — he was as uncompromising as ever.

Looking for a traditionalist safety net

The Trump administration will take office with these two ideas in the ascendant — Trump’s version of America First and those who want to wage all-out war against radical Islam — but both are crude and underdeveloped. There are no specific policy proposals about how to implement either approach, let alone reconcile them. Instead, there are vague headline-grabbing gestures — call radical Islam for what it is, use waterboarding, stand up to allies, “bomb the #### out of ISIS,” and so on. There has never been a foreign-policy school of thought that won an election and is less prepared to govern than America First or the desire to fight a religious war.

Consider, for example, Flynn’s book, The Field of Fight, published this year. The book is written in Flynn’s voice, but his co-author is Michael Ledeen, a hard-liner known for wanting to wage war against radical Islam. In it, Flynn writes that the Muslim world is a “spectacular failure” and radical Islam now represents this “failed civilization.” He argues, without providing any evidence, that radical Islam is in an active alliance with Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela, all of which share a “hatred of the West.” He calls for the United States to wage a war against this alliance on a scale comparable to World War II or the Cold War. He states repeatedly that the United States must counter Iranian influence, including in Syria.

It’s a mystery what could motivate a foreign policy professional to espouse such views or what practical policy agenda could possibly emerge from them. That’s not to mention the ways the book contradict Flynn’s history of appearing regularly on RT, a Kremlin-funded TV station; meeting with Putin; saying positive things about Russia; and proposing partnerships with Moscow to fight the Islamic State. He did this before and after his book was published. One interpretation is that the Russia sections of the book more reflect Ledeen’s views and Flynn went along. Alternatively, perhaps Flynn adjusted his views on Russia to align with Trump’s after the book was finished but before it was published. Either way, it raises many more questions about Flynn’s future policy advice than it answers.

Trump and the religious warriors know that they cannot govern alone or just with each other. With his isolationist tendencies, Trump likely worries that the religious warriors will drag him into new wars in the Middle East that he wants to avoid. For their part, the religious warriors worry that Trump will use the partnership with Russia to largely abandon the Middle East and empower Iran. They also have no desire to liquidate America’s alliances, and some are wary about Russian influence in Europe. Moreover, neither the America Firsters nor the religious warriors have the number of qualified people required to take over all of the key foreign-policy positions in government, especially for Europe and Asia.

This is where the traditionalists come in. The traditionalists include all those officials who support the institutions of American power and are generally comfortable with the post-World War II bipartisan consensus on U.S. strategy, even though they may seek to change it on the margins. It is a broad tent. There are Russia hawks and China hawks, unilateralists and multilateralists, those who favor restraint and those who want to dramatically increase U.S. power and influence. Among them are Mitt Romney, James Mattis, Richard Haass, Mike Rogers, Bob Corker, and Stephen Hadley. One level down, it includes most of the Republican foreign-policy establishment who could staff a Trump administration.

The traditionalists who enter the administration or consult with it see their role as steering the Trump administration toward a mainstream foreign policy, especially in Europe and Asia, and avoiding the excesses of America First and religious war. Their first priority will be to maintain America’s alliance system and military presence around the world.

There was some evidence in the early days of the transition that Trump was willing to move in a traditionalist direction to avoid precipitating a crisis. Two days after the election, on Nov. 10, Trump told President Park Geun-hye in a phone call that he supported the alliance with South Korea, despite having criticized it for the past 30 years. Trump would later tell the New York Times that President Barack Obama had identified one major national security problem facing the country that required urgent attention. It was subsequently reported that this was North Korea. Deterring an imminent threat from North Korea was probably the reason why Trump reversed himself on the alliance with South Korea.

Curiously, Trump did not issue a statement supporting the U.S.-Japan alliance after his in-person meeting with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The Japanese leader described Trump as a person he could trust, but the absence of any mention of continuing U.S. support for the alliance was conspicuous. Perhaps Trump felt under less pressure on Japan than on Korea, but the contrast between the call with Park and the meeting with Abe was striking.

A delicate balance

These three factions — the America Firsters, the religious warriors, and the traditionalists — are mutually suspicious. But each also needs the others to check the third. Trump needs the religious warriors to prevent a mainstream takeover, but he fears they will drag him into a war against Iran. The religious warriors need Trump to achieve their objectives, but they also have no desire to collapse the U.S. alliance system. The traditionalists need both to check the radical impulses of the other.

Preserving this delicate balance appears to have been a key priority in the formation of the cabinet. It explains why Flynn reportedly objected to Mattis on the grounds that he did not want any principal to militarily outrank him and also why Trump overruled him. It could also explain why Trump passed on Mitt Romney. As secretary of state, Romney could have forged a partnership with Mattis, giving the traditionalists tremendous power.

This is why naming Rex Tillerson as secretary of state was so important for Trump. A week before he was named, Trump’s senior aide Kellyanne Conway told the press that Trump was expanding the list of names for secretary of state and that the most important consideration was that the nominee “would be to implement and adhere to the president-elect’s America-first foreign policy — if you will, his view of the world.” The implication was clear: Romney, David Petraeus, and others would not fit the bill, so Trump would have to look elsewhere. He found Tillerson.

Tillerson is a pragmatist and a dealmaker. In many ways, he is a traditionalist. After all, he was endorsed by James Baker, Robert Gates, Hadley, and Condoleezza Rice. However, Trump also sees him, based on his personal relationship with Putin and opposition to sanctions on Russia, as someone willing to cut deals with strongmen and who sees national security through an economic lens and is thus an embodiment of his own America First views. Speaking in Wisconsin hours after naming Tillerson, Trump said, “Rex is friendly with many of the leaders in the world that we don’t get along with, and some people don’t like that. They don’t want them to be friendly. That’s why I’m doing the deal with Rex, ‘cause I like what this is all about.” Tillerson, ultimately, is an unknown quantity — nobody knows whether he will serve as a proxy for the establishment and steer Trump in a traditionalist direction or rather be the means by which Trump cuts deals with America’s rivals over the heads of U.S. allies.

Mattis’s role as secretary of defense is also critical. Mattis will not be bullied or pushed around, and he will likely work closely with Gen. Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to stop outlandish policy proposals and irresponsible military operations and to reassure America’s allies. Mattis has said one or two things about political Islam that resemble the rhetoric of the religious warriors, but these have generally been taken out of context. He has a track record of working closely with America’s Arab allies and has a much more mainstream view of U.S. policy in the Middle East. It’s fair to say that he is an Iran hawk, but it bears noting that he has clearly stated that the United States should not unilaterally withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal.

The three-way power struggle inside the Trump administration will not be particularly stable. It is riven by distrust. There are serious doubts about Flynn’s capacity to manage his staff and the interagency process and his ability to navigate the national security bureaucracy. It’s already widely expected that Flynn will clash regularly with Mattis and others. This may play out in the hundreds of foreign-policy appointments that are still to be made. Moreover, if the Trump administration experiences early problems of its own making, Trump will look for someone to blame — and how he does so will affect the national security team’s tripartite balance.

But the greatest clashes will be over how to tackle specific issues. The first may be Syria, where Trump told the New York Times that he disagrees with all of his advisors on how to act. He was probably referring to his preference to ally with Putin and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, which would have the inevitable consequence of empowering Iran — anathema to the religious warriors who want to fight Shiite Iran and Sunni extremists simultaneously. The Iran nuclear deal is a second stumbling block — the religious warriors favor an extremely tough policy toward Tehran, but there are serious doubts about whether Trump would attack Iran’s nuclear facilities if the deal collapsed. There is also Trump’s proposal to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, which could raise tensions in the region. And there is the outreach to Russia and the saber rattling with China, which some traditionalists (and perhaps, too, the Taiwanese government) fear is a precursor to negotiation.

Trumpism ascendant

Taking a step back, the inescapable fact is that American national security policy is a hierarchical enterprise. There are some checks and balances, but they are fewer than in the domestic space. No one can make the commander in chief do something he does not want to do. They can’t make him threaten force or use it to uphold an alliance. They cannot make him sign a trade agreement or a treaty. And they cannot make him support democracy and human rights around the world. Trump’s worldview is to reduce America’s role in the world, and there is no foolproof check or balance to that.

This places an enormous premium on what Trump says and does. And although he may try to maintain his alliance with the religious warriors and endeavor to keep the traditionalists on board to stay out of trouble, much will depend on how he fares under the extraordinary pressure of the presidency. How will he react to being vilified by the Europeans for pulling out of the Paris climate agreement or for partnering with Putin in Syria? Will he tell them that they are on their own against Russia? Will he insult leaders who are critical of him? His tweets of the past few weeks provide no reassurance on this score.

It is quite possible that Trump’s reactions to spats with allies, if they are motivated by his long-standing America First perspective, will have strategic consequences that render the best efforts of the other two factions completely meaningless. Trump may even welcome the chaos. A nationalist needs foreign rivals and foils. The problem with quarreling with real enemies is they may call your bluff and force you to use force or be humiliated. Quarreling with allies is easier. The long-term risks are enormous, but they are abstract and hard to communicate to the public.

Trumpism will also play out in hundreds of small ways. We got a preview in the days after Trump’s election when he spent a couple of hours hanging out with Nigel Farage, the British nationalist and scourge of the European Union, and later tweeted his support for Farage becoming Britain’s ambassador to the United States. He then called Viktor Orban, the anti-EU “illiberal democrat” leading Hungary, offered to reset relations, and invited him to Washington. If such entreaties are repeated after Trump enters office, it could mark the unraveling of America’s traditional support for the European Union. But Trump is unlikely to care. Indeed, Bannon, his chief strategist, is already on the record as wanting to empower populists around the world in a global rebellion against the establishment.

The United States has built and led a liberal international order for the past 70 years. For the first time, America will have a president who rejects that strategy. Trump is not unchallenged, and there are few who share his vision. But he is poised to revolutionize U.S. foreign policy nevertheless.

 
Publicity is publicity.  Good or bad.  He ran circles around the old media by being outrageous.  How does one separate from the 17 people in the GOP that are likely more qualified than you?  You get a LOT of Twitter followers.  Trump mastered the technique and showed old media to be a dinosaur incapable of moving the needle for their candidate when it really mattered.
Sounds more like something a 3rd world leader (or a reality show contestant) would do than a candidate for president of the US.

 
This board is not representative of the population.
I disagree.  The board is quite diverse, and I think that's a good thing (and leads to excellent discussions like this one).  Yahoos from the far right and far left, as well as intelligent and thoughtful voices from both sides of the spectrum are well represented.

This has been a great political discussion, and I hope it continues to provoke thought and insight on our continued growth as a voting populace.

 
Thanks for re-iterating. It's remarkable what passes for revisionist history. I also don't understand the "therefore, Trump" aspect, and probably never will.

They chanted lock her up, CNN sucks, and build a wall. None of which matter, or are going to happen. 

I didn't like her that much either, bu


Hmmm ...


 


That's from March of 2014. I wonder what might have changed his mind.
Trump happened.

Trump fixed Russia before being elected now he will drag crying liberals kicking and screaming into MAGA!

 
Trumpism ascendant

Taking a step back, the inescapable fact is that American national security policy is a hierarchical enterprise. There are some checks and balances, but they are fewer than in the domestic space. No one can make the commander in chief do something he does not want to do. They can’t make him threaten force or use it to uphold an alliance. They cannot make him sign a trade agreement or a treaty. And they cannot make him support democracy and human rights around the world. Trump’s worldview is to reduce America’s role in the world, and there is no foolproof check or balance to that.

This places an enormous premium on what Trump says and does. And although he may try to maintain his alliance with the religious warriors and endeavor to keep the traditionalists on board to stay out of trouble, much will depend on how he fares under the extraordinary pressure of the presidency. How will he react to being vilified by the Europeans for pulling out of the Paris climate agreement or for partnering with Putin in Syria? Will he tell them that they are on their own against Russia? Will he insult leaders who are critical of him? His tweets of the past few weeks provide no reassurance on this score.

It is quite possible that Trump’s reactions to spats with allies, if they are motivated by his long-standing America First perspective, will have strategic consequences that render the best efforts of the other two factions completely meaningless. Trump may even welcome the chaos. A nationalist needs foreign rivals and foils. The problem with quarreling with real enemies is they may call your bluff and force you to use force or be humiliated. Quarreling with allies is easier. The long-term risks are enormous, but they are abstract and hard to communicate to the public.

Trumpism will also play out in hundreds of small ways. We got a preview in the days after Trump’s election when he spent a couple of hours hanging out with Nigel Farage, the British nationalist and scourge of the European Union, and later tweeted his support for Farage becoming Britain’s ambassador to the United States. He then called Viktor Orban, the anti-EU “illiberal democrat” leading Hungary, offered to reset relations, and invited him to Washington. If such entreaties are repeated after Trump enters office, it could mark the unraveling of America’s traditional support for the European Union. But Trump is unlikely to care. Indeed, Bannon, his chief strategist, is already on the record as wanting to empower populists around the world in a global rebellion against the establishment.

The United States has built and led a liberal international order for the past 70 years. For the first time, America will have a president who rejects that strategy. Trump is not unchallenged, and there are few who share his vision. But he is poised to revolutionize U.S. foreign policy nevertheless.
Terrifying, but very interesting section of the article.  

The only thing that Trump respects is power.  He doesn't care about the United States in any real sense, other than that the presidency is the highest office he can hold.  He cares about making money and having power, and as president with his kids in charge of his business, he can do both.  

And without a solid understanding of foreign policy, and by treating America like a business he's in charge of, he may very well lead us into war because his twitter account will write checks that the country's men and women will have to pay in blood.

 
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WikiLeaks says no state actors gave them the documents they leaked.  Their entire business model would be crushed if that were deemed untrue.  Note: They have never been caught in a "faked" leak ever.  In past releases, they have made a point to never verify or deny claims as to who leaked the information. In this instance they made a point to say NO, these leaks did not come from any state actors (including Russia).

Until the Director of National Intelligence and FBI weigh in, this appears to be a "made up" story floated out to a willing media from our CIA.  The same CIA that likely is about to lose "bigly" when Trump and his military cabinet stop some of the corruption exposed by those same WikiLeaks.

 
Sure. 

1. Complete ban on Muslim immigration - (has walked it back) 

2. Allowing the conservatives to push him further right on abortion issues. 

3. His hardline about amnesty. - (walked back at this point) 

My point is that the things that I don't like about Trump are actual policy or substantive issues.  I think that one of the things you may be miss identifying as a "cult" feature is that most Trump supporters do not care about what they consider nonsense and noise. At the end of the day Trump tweeting that he likes taco bowls and Vanity fair sucks means nothing. No matter what outrageous tweet Trump puts out, it is not a policy, platform or actionable item you think it is crazy that people don't denounce every irrelevant thing the guy throws out there. 
I can agree with that.  But to be on twitter instead of sitting in security briefings is not nonsense.  

 
WikiLeaks says no state actors gave them the documents they leaked.  Their entire business model would be crushed if that were deemed untrue.  Note: They have never been caught in a "faked" leak ever.  In past releases, they have made a point to never verify or deny claims as to who leaked the information. In this instance they made a point to say NO, these leaks did not come from any state actors (including Russia).

Until the Director of National Intelligence and FBI weigh in, this appears to be a "made up" story floated out to a willing media from our CIA.  The same CIA that likely is about to lose "bigly" when Trump and his military cabinet stop some of the corruption exposed by those same WikiLeaks.
So all of a sudden the CIA is corrupt because they disagree with Trump.  

Wake up man.

 
I am confused.  Wasn't Romney saying Russia is bad and Obama saying the exact opposite of that a few years back?
Things got pretty intense in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea and Ukrainian conflict. 2015 Russians partnering with Syria also seems to have been a turning point in US-Russian relations.

 
You seem pretty content to source NewsMax, I noticed...
Show me where what NewsMax said is untrue here.  What is the stated position from the FBI and National Intelligence?  Where is the CIA's proof?  Surely CNN, Slate, and others would not run these stories without proof?  Show us.  Julian Assange owns the site and says the data did not come from a state actor.  If you are saying it did, show us the proof so Assange and others can expose it for the lie it is. 

 
Sounds more like something a 3rd world leader (or a reality show contestant) would do than a candidate for president of the US.
Reminder why we are here. Mainstream Republicans by and large looked at the two choices, knew Trump was a dangerous, unstable, pathological liar,  morally bankrupt, who was rejected by the intellectual conservative right and virtually every newspaper and major political think tanks, liberal and conservative.

Still voted for him. 

 
Show me where what NewsMax said is untrue here.  What is the stated position from the FBI and National Intelligence?  Where is the CIA's proof?  Surely CNN, Slate, and others would not run these stories without proof?  Show us.  Julian Assange owns the site and says the data did not come from a state actor.  If you are saying it did, show us the proof so Assange and others can expose it for the lie it is. 
dude...

if Russia knows Wiki won't post info from a state actor, all they have to do is give it to a non-state actor to give it to wiki. Or, maybe disguise as some sort of civilian - wear some glasses and a fake mustache, maybe.

This isn't hard.

 
Show me where what NewsMax said is untrue here.  What is the stated position from the FBI and National Intelligence?  Where is the CIA's proof?  Surely CNN, Slate, and others would not run these stories without proof?  Show us.  Julian Assange owns the site and says the data did not come from a state actor.  If you are saying it did, show us the proof so Assange and others can expose it for the lie it is. 
What is the FBI's position?

 
Show me where what NewsMax said is untrue here.  What is the stated position from the FBI and National Intelligence?  Where is the CIA's proof?  Surely CNN, Slate, and others would not run these stories without proof?  Show us.  Julian Assange owns the site and says the data did not come from a state actor.  If you are saying it did, show us the proof so Assange and others can expose it for the lie it is. 




 


WaPo - which is part of the Slate globalist cabal (Bezos) - good enough? From Nov 1. 

FBI Director James B. Comey advised against the Obama administration publicly accusing Russia of hacking political organizations on the grounds that it would make the administration appear unduly partisan too close to the Nov. 8 election, according to officials familiar with the deliberations.

But he supported the administration’s formal denunciation last month as long as it did not have the FBI’s name on it, they said. Comey was sensitive not only to his agency appearing to influence the election but also to seeming biased while it was conducting an investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions




 



 
WikiLeaks says no state actors gave them the documents they leaked.  Their entire business model would be crushed if that were deemed untrue.  Note: They have never been caught in a "faked" leak ever.  In past releases, they have made a point to never verify or deny claims as to who leaked the information. In this instance they made a point to say NO, these leaks did not come from any state actors (including Russia).

Until the Director of National Intelligence and FBI weigh in, this appears to be a "made up" story floated out to a willing media from our CIA.  The same CIA that likely is about to lose "bigly" when Trump and his military cabinet stop some of the corruption exposed by those same WikiLeaks.
And the NSA.  Don't forget about them.  You mentioned them before but then mysteriously dropped them from the discussion after I posted the quote from NSA director, Admiral Michael Rogers. 

Here it is again, in case you missed it:

“There shouldn’t be any doubts in anybody’s mind: This was not something that was done casually, this was not something that was done by chance, this was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily,” Rogers said at a Wall Street Journal election forum on Tuesday. “This was a conscious effort by a nation state to attempt to achieve a specific effect.”


Anyway, I'm with you, Dodds. I for one am tired of the CIA, the NSA and the White House getting together to make up stories.  It's time for honesty and transparency in media and in government. You know, like what we see from the accused rapist on the run who makes his employees sign nondisclosure agreements, and from the #####-grabbing president-elect who won't release his taxes, have a press conference, or disclose any plans regarding the massive web of potential conflicts due to his business interests.

 
:popcorn:

The unhinged posters in here are great theater.  So if the Electoral College goes not give Trump the election Monday what happens next?  Civil War? Martial Law?

 
"It is the Soviet Union that runs against the tide of history.... [It is] the march of freedom and democracy which will leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people."

Ronald Reagan, 1982

 
"It is the Soviet Union that runs against the tide of history.... [It is] the march of freedom and democracy which will leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people."

Ronald Reagan, 1982
Reagan was a Hydra agent.  What he started, Trump is finishing.

 
"It is the Soviet Union that runs against the tide of history.... [It is] the march of freedom and democracy which will leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people."

Ronald Reagan, 1982
"I have no relationship with [Putin] other than he called me a genius. He said Donald trump is a genius and he is going to be the leader of the party and he's going to be the leader of the world or something," 

"These characters that I'm running against said, 'We want you to disavow that statement.' I said what, he called me a genius, I'm going to disavow it? Are you crazy? Can you believe it? How stupid are they."

"And besides that wouldn't it be good if we actually got along with countries. Wouldn't it actually be a positive thing. I think I'd have a good relationship with Putin. I mean who knows," 

Donald Trump, 2016

 
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