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Official Donald Trump for President thread (7 Viewers)

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The General said:
Paying taxes are for dumb and or poor people.
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You ### #### right!!!!  That's how land barons and feudal society worked.  Pretty sure we revolted against all that, but Trump embraces it because it's all he knows.  Cheat the system, crush the little guy because he's a sucker in the end.  Rinse and repeat, teach your kids this, try to go generations without being susceptible to government oversight or having to do what everyone else does because you're a superior being.  Trump could ride the incorrect perception of himself as a successful businessman, but he's just too full of himself living a life the average American could never understand.  The guy has never been in a laundry mat unless he was buying it, that means something to me.  It should to all of you, too. 

Is that ok @3C's? Sorry I didn't clear this post through you or @PlasmaDogPlasma before I wrote it.  Next time.  :bye:

 
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jamny said:
I don't hate Trump. I don't think he'll make a good President though. He probably won't get much accomplished since the Republican establishment would be against him. He will probably say numerous things that will embarrass the US. But I don't think he's the Hitler that the left are making him out to be. Yes, he sucks. So does Hillary. I can't imagine anyone voting for her either. She's manipulative and evil, imo.

I like lower corporate tax rates, more focus on immigration and veteran affairs and the thought of Mike Lee (I'm a big fan) as a possible Supreme Court judge. Like I said, my vote is probably meaningless in NY. People say that a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for a third party or for the Libertarian Party, not really the candidate. I agree more with the things Trump is saying and I really like that the religious right has been pretty much pushed to the side. And Trump is actually pro-LGBT in his speeches. And has made some comments that probably don't make the NRA happy. I don't think Trump will make a good President but can I vote for how he is pulling the Republican Party to the left on some social issues? I think it's a huge shift for the party.
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If you don't think Donald is a danger to the world as a president you are being naive. He is an easily manipulated impulsive egomaniac. He isn't fit to be in charge of a crosswalk. 

 
It is a rare individual indeed who can offer succeeding disqualifying events or circumstances, one after another, within days or even literally hours.  

 
(derp mode) But...but...Supreme Court Justices! Let's not forget the most important issue here! If Hillary is elected then we'll all be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings! (/derp mode)

 
LittlePhatty said:
(derp mode) But...but...Supreme Court Justices! Let's not forget the most important issue here! If Hillary is elected then we'll all be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings! (/derp mode)
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Oh, to live in a world with more gay wedding cakes and taco trucks on every corner

 
cstu said:
Let me get this straight:

- inherit millions of dollars

- borrow huge amounts from banks to buy property

- negotiate debt down from banks when properties lose money

- write off $916 million on taxes

- don't pay taxes for the next quarter century

Does that about cover it?
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Unfortunately, this is how our federal tax code is set up.  There are many huge corporations that are doing the same thing.  The middle and upper middle class carry a lot of the water.  If he was doing something illegal he would have been popped years ago. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
Unfortunately, this is how our federal tax code is set up.  There are many huge corporations that are doing the same thing.  The middle and upper middle class carry a lot of the water.  If he was doing something illegal he would have been popped years ago. 
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And yet again...he posts how his opponent took advantage of a rigged system..and to follow the money.

And there is zero reason to believe he will attempt to change any of that and hurt his own bottom line or that of his rich friends.

 
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This be fair, if we are going to tax investment gains it is only correct to allow for balanced treatment of investment losses to offset the gains.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the NOLs Trump appears to have generated and then used to defray future tax liability.

But he's running for president as the voice of the little guy, and it just isn't going to play well to anyone if he really hasn't paid a cent in federal taxes in 20 years, while at the same time amassing the level of wealth he is so fond of telling everyone about.  

If this was leaked by his team, it was idiotic.  The last 38 days of this campaign will be focused solely on his taxes.

 
Hasn't paid anything in twenty years and the ONE policy he has never changed positions on?  Repealing the Estate Tax.

Could his motivation for all this be any more clear?

 
http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2016/10/some-comments-on-new-york-times-story.html?spref=tw&m=1

Sunday, October 2, 2016

Some comments on the New York Times story about Donald Trump's tax returns

Decades ago - before I was a fund manager - I was the resident expert on tax avoidance working for the Australian Treasury. That was where I started to hone the accounting skills sometimes shown on this blog.I very rarely do anything in tax - but now I think it is time.The New York Times has published a story (including extracts) about Donald Trump's tax returns over two decades ago. The money-quote is this:
 


Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years...


According to the New York Times the losses came


... through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.


There is an issue here.Donald Trump did not repay all the debt associated with those investments.Either
 

  • the loss is a real loss and the Donald was really was out of pocket by $916 million (in which case he has legitimate NOLs)
  • or the loss was passed on to someone else by The Donald defaulting on debt - in which case Donald Trump should be assessed for income from debt forgiveness.
After all if the debt is forgiven it is not Donald Trump's loss. The loss is borne by the person who lent Donald money and did not get it back.That - clearly stated by example - is why most income tax systems assess debt forgiveness as income.--Okay - I do not know whether Donald Trump had the wherewithal in 1995 to bear $916 million of losses personally. But I doubt it. (If he did his financial career is different from what is popularly accepted.)So the alternative is the debt was forgiven in some way. But then the story the New York Times is running is wrong - because the $916 million of losses would not have survived the debt forgiveness and hence would have wiped out his NOLs and thus he would not be allowed to shelter his income for the next 18 years.Unless that is there is an avoidance scheme the New York Times has not worked out. Those schemes go by the name of "debt parking".Debt parkingHere is how debt parking works. Suppose the debtor (in this case The Donald) is going to get his debt cancelled for (say) 1c in the dollar. When he gets the debt wiped out the debtor (ie The Donald) will have to report assessable income equal to the debt wiped out (in this case 99 percent of $916 million).The alternative though is for the debtor to set up a dummy party. The dummy party might be his wife or children or some company or trust set up by them or more likely some completely opaque offshore trust.And that dummy party goes and buys the debt for say 1.1 cents in the dollar. Then they just sit there.They don't force the debtor (ie The Donald) to repay. They don't make a profit or loss on the debt. And because the debtor never has his debt forgiven he never gets the assessment on debt forgiveness and he gets to keep his NOLs even though the losses did not come out of his pocket.Every tax system worth its salt has some rules on "effective debt forgiveness" to prevent debt parking. And - from my experience which is now over twenty years old - none of them work entirely.Now if Donald really has all those tax losses its pretty clear that the debt must be parked somewhere.There is a vehicle out there (say an offshore trust or other undisclosed related party effectively controlled by Donald Trump) - which owns over $900 million in debt and is not bothering to collect it.I do not have the time or energy to find that vehicle. But it is there. Now that this blog has gone public journalists are going to look for it.There is a Pulitzer prize for whoever finds it. Just give me a nod at the acceptance ceremony.

 
The no taxes thing is a big deal with him trying to somehow represent the working people while being super elite. But the truth is there is something to the "that makes me smart" line. The tax code is what it is and you and I and everybody else does what they can to minimize tax liability. 

They should focus on the $900mm loss. His sole qualification is that he is a super successful businessman. Meanwhile, he inherited everything, leveraged to the teeth, then claims losses and bankruptcies. Sad. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
The no taxes thing is a big deal with him trying to somehow represent the working people while being super elite. But the truth is there is something to the "that makes me smart" line. The tax code is what it is and you and I and everybody else does what they can to minimize tax liability. 

They should focus on the $900mm loss. His sole qualification is that he is a super successful businessman. Meanwhile, he inherited everything, leveraged to the teeth, then claims losses and bankruptcies. Sad. 
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Agreed. How can you be a great businessman but almost lose a billion dollars in one year? Doesn't sound so great to me. 

The taxes thing is interesting. Of course we'd all like to pay less, but when you say that Americans needs to do more for the vets, yet you don't pay any taxes, that seems a bit hypocritical. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
The no taxes thing is a big deal with him trying to somehow represent the working people while being super elite. But the truth is there is something to the "that makes me smart" line. The tax code is what it is and you and I and everybody else does what they can to minimize tax liability. 

They should focus on the $900mm loss. His sole qualification is that he is a super successful businessman. Meanwhile, he inherited everything, leveraged to the teeth, then claims losses and bankruptcies. Sad. 
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I mostly agree with this. The theme with Trump is that he is a good deal making businessman.

Essentially getting away with millions for free is yes essentially that.

However the near billion dollar loss is obviously someone who failed on a very bad deal.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I mostly agree with this. The theme with Trump is that he is a good deal making businessman.

Essentially getting away with millions for free is yes essentially that.

However the near billion dollar loss is obviously someone who failed on a very bad deal.
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I know of at least 4 people in Benghazi who got an even worse deal.

 
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Some Conservative talk show (radio) keep the mantra going that Clinton is, "the most corrupt person running for office." She's a politician so having shady deals as part of her history is a part of her story. The data points just keep piling up against Trump. And, maybe people will not pawn his stuff off as corrupt but it's definitely shadier towards the American people. It just doesn't look right and I can see the fall of the Trump name unless his kids shape up. 

 
Nuking a candidate's central theme - here that Trump is a good deal maker - is pretty much a shiv to the kidney in any election.

It was over before this but it's really, really over now assuming Hillary focuses on this aspect over the not paying taxes aspect.

However just a reminder: Trump did nothing illegal here. However obtaining these tax documents was illegal. And now the NYT has published them.

Where did they come from? 

Hillary's campaign started hammering this claim that Trump did not pay taxes and that that was what he has been hiding for a week before the debate, then Hillary nailed Trump in the debate, now the week after boom here they are magically mailed without ID from a NYC mailbox.

 
Ok too lazy to check on the sources of his lending right now as football is on. - So who would have a copy of his tax returns if not lenders?

 
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The thing I see the media overlooking is that he didn't put that money up but was able to write it off.  

I realize this is legal, but its stupid.  If I lose money on stocks I can only carry forward 3k in losses.  He puts nothing up on a bad deal and carries it all for decades. 

 
I must have hit a nerve.  Mission...accomplished. :thumbup:

Standard AppleJack tactic:  when faced with the truth, deflect!

 
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The vast majority of his debt, if not all, would actually be debt of enterprises / properties he owns or has an interest in.  So it is conceivable that he never had to provide his individual returns to anyone.  

 
elbowrm said:
The vast majority of his debt, if not all, would actually be debt of enterprises / properties he owns or has an interest in.  So it is conceivable that he never had to provide his individual returns to anyone.  
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That sounds correct. That would also leave a very, very limited set of possibilities for the source of the returns.

I'm guessing he's maybe had 2-3 accounting firms since 1995 and then his own organization. Maybe his lawyers.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
That sounds correct. That would also leave a very, very limited set of possibilities for the source of the returns.

I'm guessing he's maybe had 2-3 accounting firms since 1995 and then his own organization. Maybe his lawyers.
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gaming commissions in states where he had casinos like - *coughcough* - NJ he had to submit tax returns, apparently. Christie's not to blame, of course, but Christie's the least popular man in Jersey though...

 
Rohn Jambo said:
A lot of couples divorce when they fall out of love with their spouses or in love with someone else.  Bill Clinton is more than a cheater. He is a sexual predictor.  I would not want him in my neighborhood if I have a daughter.
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This might be true. UNfortunately, it seems like Trump is ALSO the same type of predator

 
MaxThreshold said:
Everything you're saying in this post can be flipped an applied to you about Hillary.
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Unlike you, I don't try to mislead people claiming that I dislike both candidates when I am clearly partisan for one, as you are with Trump.

You claim you dislike both candidates, but you always attack Hillary or her supporters but never Trump or his supporters.

I asked you yesterday to show us a post of the last time where you criticized Trump or his supporters and you couldn't do it.

I don't claim to be indifferent as to who wins, but you do and it is obvious you favor Trump and there is nothing your postings to disprove that .

 
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