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Setting aside my disagreement with your characterization of Clinton ... I suspect we've probably seen two completely corrupt jackholes as our two major party candidates before. We just didn't know about it because there wasn't this confluence of hyper-partisanship and social media and 24/7 news channels and so on.
You caught me before the edit.
Let's say say Trump and Hillary are tied and the tie-breaker goes to Trump if you don't vote for either.
They vote that way so they can complain no matter what and say "I told you so". Agreed the position is the safe way out, and basically punting the responsibility to those willing to do the right thing.
Please.Please everyone vote for my favorite party because their criminal activity is minor and Trump will ruin the world. Good schtick.
Just vote for whoever the hell you want. Both suck. Both will questioned for the next four years. There will be tons of "I told you so" schtick no matter what. The fear mongering is hilarious though.
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In no way is a vote for Trump or Hillary "the right thing".
There are many other factors such that I would not feel personally guilty for the result. I would not be happy with the ultimate outcome of Trump as POTUS.
No, I'm not kidding you. I do not want Hillary as president. Nor do many others. Some of those who feel like I do are going to vote for her because Trump is worse. I have no problem with that. Others of those who feel like I do will vote for someone other than Hillary or Trump, or not vote at all. I don't know why people feel the need to have a problem with that. We're not equating Hillary to Trump by doing such.
He's absolutely right.
You don't think there are any Democrats that are in the group he is describing and that they will vote Trump too?
Nobody held a gun to the Democratic party's head and forced it to nominate somebody who I would never vote for under any circumstances. If my vote for Johnson somehow results in Trump becoming president, I'll consider that the Democrats' fault for nominating somebody who couldn't put away the WOAT.
Literally the first sentence of the main text, following the preamble and statement of principles, of the Platform of the Libertarian Party:
Yes, the Democratic party needs to accept the responsibility for the choice they made to nominate Clinton if she loses and Trump wins. This isn't hard despite your month long efforts to shamelessly beg for votes here.
Full definition of the word "individual" when used as a noun, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Never stop the condescending schtick. It's pure hilarity.
I wouldn't want the Democratic Party to nominate someone you would vote for. It would cease to be the Democratic Party then.
Fine, every individual that voted for Clinton in the democratic primary is responsible for Clinton being on the ballot this fall. They can accept responsibility if she loses to a horrible opponent such as Trump. It's not the fault of those that vote for Gary Johnson. That's for damn sure.
FWIW I don't believe that at all. I'm simply pointing out that it's not as effective in preventing a Trump presidency (or discouraging future Trumps) as a vote for Clinton. Thought I'd made that pretty clear, but I guess not?
No, only those that actually voted for him in states that he wins. Even those who voted for him in states that he loses are not to blame.
You explicitly said that even in a Hillary victory, it was important for the margin of victory to be larger so that it discourages future candidates like Trump, right? I disagree with that as an empirical matter. If some ambitious politician is wondering whether becoming Trump 2.0 is a good idea, he's going to look at the percentage supporting Trump (if he's at all rational). He's not going to look at the margin of victory.
Yes, but you said "I disagree with Tobias to the extent that I don't believe that any vote that is not for Hillary Clinton is a vote for Trump." When I say it's not just about the electoral votes, and I think impact on the margin of victory also should be taken into account, I don't think that is the same as saying "any vote not for Clinton is a vote for Trump." At least that wasn't my intention. #allvotesmatter
This. If they want to be taken seriously even one iota, they have to keep her. You can't possibly call yourself Fair and Balanced and then fire the only anchor who ever had the balls to speak out against a Republican.
True, and a good explanation why Trump is more the vehicle for certain perspectives, then it is about Trump himself. For certain voters.
That's why I've never been a Trump supporter because I think he's just insults, red meat slogans and catch phrases. But I can see that if someone feels as if they have been lied to their whole lives by politicians, why not say F it all, I'll take a chance with this guy and see what he does. And the more that people put Trump down, the more his supporters think he is just the hand grenade the country needs.
When Democrats say that the Republican party needs to own Trump, we need to explicitly make one point more clear. When your party essentially maligns the very concept of governance, treating it as the problem and not part of the solution, it should come as no surprise when a healthy sector of your voting members choose to support a guy who lacks a basic command of the facts required to govern. On so many issues, Donald Trump has proven to have literally no idea what he is talking about (take the "my employees have suffered from Obamacare" stuff from last night). But that's seen as a feature, not a bug. He'll just come in and fix government, like a business. Never mind that our Constitutional structure of government has very little in common with how corporations (particularly closely held corporations) are run.
That's why I've never been a Trump supporter because I think he's just insults, red meat slogans and catch phrases. But I can see that if someone feels as if they have been lied to their whole lives by politicians, why not say F it all, I'll take a chance with this guy and see what he does. And the more that people put Trump down, the more his supporters think he is just the hand grenade the country needs.
This is pretty neat in theory, but this isn't a three week trial. If we elect this idiot, he could do a ton of damage in four years. Irreversible damage.
That's why I've never been a Trump supporter because I think he's just insults, red meat slogans and catch phrases. But I can see that if someone feels as if they have been lied to their whole lives by politicians, why not say F it all, I'll take a chance with this guy and see what he does. And the more that people put Trump down, the more his supporters think he is just the hand grenade the country needs.
Tell that to somebody whose town was decimated when the biggest employer left for another country and they can't find work and they are witnessing the heroin/meth epidemic all around them.
Only one of the two main candidates is putting forward actual policy on jobs with realistic, doable concepts on how to bring back jobs to struggling Americans. It's been a major focal point of the candidate's speeches, over and over again, for the past 6 months.
Do you think the people in this country that somehow think Trump is the best choice for president are going to be dissuaded by margin of victory when backing a candidate next time?
The anti-intellectualism that runs rampant in the GOP is also a big contributor Trump's nomination IMO.
It doesn't matter to Trump supporters. She's a politician, so she is lying. That's the point.
Depends who you're talking about. The people who have supported Trump from the get-go, obviously not. But there are always people on the margins. If Trump loses by 2 points, I think a Trump-like candidate in the next GOP primary race would have an easier time consolidating support from otherwise hesitant Republicans and right-leaning independents than if Trump loses by 10 points. I also think if Trump loses by ten points, Trump-like candidates would be less likely to run in the future, and/or candidates would be less likely to adopt Trump-like positions and talking points.
Donald Trump hasn't revealed on detail on how that would change under him. It's very easy for someone who has never made a political decision or thought of helping anyone other than himself to say things like "I'll create jobs, believe me". I'll repeal Obamacare, believe me (And replace it with what??). Anyone who blindly votes for this moron thinking he has a plan, when his entire campaign has proven he doesn't, deserves exactly what they get if he somehow gets elected.
Even he has to see how stupid he looks like that.I still laugh every time I see Trump trying to rock a mesh hat with that giant hair he has.
I still laugh every time I see Trump trying to rock a mesh hat with that giant hair he has.
This guy has already turned conventional politics upside down.
