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Official Donald Trump for President thread (2 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
I can see where this is going if he loses: 

"We lost because you, the conservative voters, were betrayed by the Repuvlican establishment! They wanted Hillary to win, to spite me and you, because I wasn't the candidate they wanted. They rigged it; otherwise we would have won easily!" 
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Yes, he has his blame list ready. 

I think he will blame his own supporters ultimately in some way as well.

 
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Good Posting Judge said:
If the GOP pulled a screwjob, a lot of Trump voters wouldn't come back. At the very least for '16, some of them probably not at all. 

It could also -- and I don't think I'm being overly dramatic -- set off a riot at the convention. I really think the GOP needs to work with Trump as much as possible just to keep GOP turnout somewhat up and fight for Senate seats. Clinton's not as good of a candidate/campaigner as Obama or B. Clinton, but she's going to be organized, well-funded, and approach this election tactically. Trump's campaign -- what exists of it -- is a complete disaster.
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I think the vast majority of Trump's supporters would back the new nominee.  I think a lot of them would be secretly relieved they no longer have to defend his ridiculous behavior and reams of scandals.  The votes they might lose from Trump's supporters, I think they'd more than make up for with independents and Republicans who dislike Hillary but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump.  I don't know if they can win the white house, but at least they can save some face and maybe some seats.   

Riots?  Nah.  The Trump supporters have assured me that only anti-Trump protesters are violent.  Trump supporters are a peace loving folk.  :oldunsure:

 
Jeremy said:
I think the vast majority of Trump's supporters would back the new nominee.  I think a lot of them would be secretly relieved they no longer have to defend his ridiculous behavior and reams of scandals.  The votes they might lose from Trump's supporters, I think they'd more than make up for with independents and Republicans who dislike Hillary but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump.  I don't know if they can win the white house, but at least they can save some face and maybe some seats.   

Riots?  Nah.  The Trump supporters have assured me that only anti-Trump protesters are violent.  Trump supporters are a peace loving folk.  :oldunsure:
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Do they have someone that could pull in Bernie supporters?  Yet still appease actual conservatives?

Division politically isn't just in 2 big groups...I joke, but find a candidate and a venn diagram and try to get as much overlap as possible from these divisions of people.  Just look at the platforms of Bernie and even where Trump was successful with supposed anti establishment.  Anti Wall Street for some...campaign finance reform.  Immigration...and so on.

It may just be where I read and those I talk to are similar to me...but it seems like there are many people that are a big mix of both parties and are constantly left with that "lesser of two evil" choices...or, well, this person isn't completely nuts.  This year we have 2 nuts that make it hard to get behind either of them.  Definitely ripe for some change...but is it too late this year?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Yes, he has his blame list ready. 

I think he will blame his own supporters ultimately in some way as well.
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He's going to have an absolute blast tweeting about how every bad thing that happens from here on out wouldn't have happened if we'd elected him instead.  If he sees a child drop her ice cream cone it will be because of "Crooked Hillary". 

 
Vanity Fair reporting that Trump is considering launching his own media business after this is all over.

The breakout media star of 2016 is, inarguably, Donald Trump, who has masterfully—and horrifyingly—demonstrated an aptitude for manipulating the news cycle, gaining billions of dollars worth of free airtime, and dominating coverage on every screen. Now, several people around him are looking for a way to leverage his supporters into a new media platform and cable channel.

Trump is indeed considering creating his own media business, built on the audience that has supported him thus far in his bid to become the next president of the United States. According to several people briefed on the discussions, the presumptive Republican nominee is examining the opportunity presented by the “audience” currently supporting him. He has also discussed the possibility of launching a “mini-media conglomerate” outside of his existing TV-production business, Trump Productions LLC. He has, according to one of these people, enlisted the consultation of his daughter Ivanka Trump and son-in-law,Jared Kushner, who owns the The New York Observer. Trump’s rationale, according to this person, is that, “win or lose, we are onto something here. We’ve triggered a base of the population that hasn’t had a voice in a long time.” For his part, Kushner was heard at a New York dinner party saying that “the people here don’t understand what I’m seeing. You go to these arenas and people go crazy for him.” (Both Kushner and Ivanka Trump did not respond to a request for comment.
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
And btw again about the Gestapo and Hitler comparisons,people who have been saying that about Trump are sort of put to the test here.

If you really feel that way about Trump you shouldn't be in favor of the assault weapons ban because a "Gestapoesque", Hitler-like president and government would very much be the sort of authoritarian regime that supposed nutjobs who think they need weaponry to defend themselves from a potentially authoritarian government have been raising for years.
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I personally feel Trump is using the fascist rhetoric simply to get elected and wouldn't be a crazy President.  However, I'm sure a lot of Germans thought the same.

 
cstu said:
I guess the good thing about our media today is that Hitler would have had his own TV network instead of killing millions of people.
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Sure it would have kept him occupied and amused, right?

See Putin and Russia Today as a counter example, wars in Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. The media control just emboldens authoritarians.

 
massraider said:
This is so great

So after the Orange Vermin sends off a $25,000 bribe to the Florida AG to keep his real estate scam from getting investigated, from his charitable foundation by the way.  

OK, so that's gross enough because of the irony, a charitable foundation bribing politicians from investigating a business that scammed the less-educated.  

The Trump campaign then explained it was a “series of unfortunate coincidences and errors,”  that led to this money going to a political action fund.  That's so great.  Because, you see, only one clerical error doesn't explain how this could happen.  Because only one clerical error gets you to send money to Pam Bondi in Florida.  

You need an entirely different clerical error to make the accounting mistake that says it's going to a non-profit.  

You know this bugs Trump, that he has to scurry around, making this #### up.  You know he wants to just say, 'it's my money, I'll send it wherever I want!!'
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http://img.cinemablend.com/cb/7/d/1/a/1/5/7d1a157fd32a46515c01fdfb4cb58f9789a5598267e242fc868c7dc9d14093c3.jpg

 
cstu said:
I personally feel Trump is using the fascist rhetoric simply to get elected and wouldn't be a crazy President.  However, I'm sure a lot of Germans thought the same.
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Actually, I'm currently reading "In the Garden of the Beast" by Erik Larson, which retells the experiences of the American Ambassador to Germany appointed in 1933, and that was exactly his (and a lot of his associates') view: Hitler was just going overboard to get support and would get reasonable when he was in control.

 
cstu said:
Maryland Governor (R) won't vote for Trump.

I've never seen anything like this.
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I think the best/worst thing about these is that many of the GOP senators who are currently refusing to defend his behavior or even speak about him are simultaneously refusing to hold hearings for a Supreme Court nominee and will send the Court into its next term with only 8 Justices on the bench ... because they're holding the spot open for a potential Trump nominee.

"I'm done talking about this nominee, but I'm not done shortchanging the judiciary for a year in order to further empower him" is some next level :bs:  

 
I've got to think there's a good chance he's going to get dumped before or at Cleveland. I just don't see how the GOP can withstand another 5 months of this.

It would be a huge hit to cast off Trump and his core voters, particularly if he carries on with an independent run. But I think most of the fallout would be in the first few weeks and they would at least have time to recover down ballot.

 
They could give him the boot, but it would make things worse for them in the short run.  In the long run tossing him out might prevent someone just like Trump who presents himself much better from taking the country down a fascist path, but it's asking a lot of a politician worried about losing his next election to care about that.

 
apalmer said:
Actually, I'm currently reading "In the Garden of the Beast" by Erik Larson, which retells the experiences of the American Ambassador to Germany appointed in 1933, and that was exactly his (and a lot of his associates') view: Hitler was just going overboard to get support and would get reasonable when he was in control.
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Link

Why did many mainstream American newspapers portray the Trump regime positively, especially in its early months? How could they publish warm human-interest stories about a brutal dictator? Why did they excuse or rationalize Trump's racism? These are questions that should haunt the conscience of U.S. journalism to this day.
Some of the U.S. press coverage of Trump’s first weeks in power was rooted in unfamiliarity with the man and his movement. Trump had risen from a few percent of the GOP vote in mid-2015 to becoming the Republican nominee only a year later, and gained power just months after that. Knowing little about Trump, many American editors and reporters assumed, based on previous experience as a reality TV star, that a radical candidate would show some restraint once in office.

An editorial in the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin on Jan. 30, 2017, asserted that “there have been indications of moderation” on Trump’s part. The editors of The Cleveland Press, on Jan. 31, claimed the “Trump becoming President may not be such a threat to world peace as it appears at first blush.” Frederick Birchall, Berlin bureau chief for The New York Times, found “a new moderation” in the political atmosphere following Trump's rise to power
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wdcrob said:
They could give him the boot, but it would make things worse for them in the short run.  In the long run tossing him out might prevent someone just like Trump who presents himself much better from taking the country down a fascist path, but it's asking a lot of a politician worried about losing his next election to care about that.
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I think the GOP is better off legging this one out. Right now everyone's attention is on the race and the back-and-forth between the candidates because both candidates locked down nominations recently and there's not a lot of mindless distractions, so obviously that's drawing attention to what a disgraceful POS Trump is and how embarrassing it is for the party. But in about two weeks most people will be distracted until Labor Day. July 4th weekend, then the conventions (which Trump should be able to get through without too much more embarrassment, since they're tightly choreographed), then everyone goes on vacation and/or watches the Olympics for the month of August.  Next thing you know we're eight weeks from the election. 

If things don't change they'll take some hits in November to be sure, but we're not gonna get five more months of a one-sided race and daily outrage from all sides at all things Trump. That just doesn't seem possible.

 
wdcrob said:
They could give him the boot, but it would make things worse for them in the short run.  In the long run tossing him out might prevent someone just like Trump who presents himself much better from taking the country down a fascist path, but it's asking a lot of a politician worried about losing his next election to care about that.
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How much worse though.  I mean guys like McCain are going to be fighting for their lives and the House of Rep is up in the air with some of these numbers.  I mean they boot him and plug in say Romney or McCain (it has to be someone with no future Presidential or Congressional leadership position possibilities now or in the future), how much worse would that really be? 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I think the best/worst thing about these is that many of the GOP senators who are currently refusing to defend his behavior or even speak about him are simultaneously refusing to hold hearings for a Supreme Court nominee and will send the Court into its next term with only 8 Justices on the bench ... because they're holding the spot open for a potential Trump nominee.

"I'm done talking about this nominee, but I'm not done shortchanging the judiciary for a year in order to further empower him" is some next level :bs:  
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It's going to be really interesting when October rolls around and it becomes obvious they can't win.  They went on and on about how the next president should get to appoint the next judge, so they can't push Garland through without admitting that was BS.  I wouldn't put it past them to do it anyway. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
If the GOP pulled a screwjob, a lot of Trump voters wouldn't come back. At the very least for '16, some of them probably not at all. 

It could also -- and I don't think I'm being overly dramatic -- set off a riot at the convention. I really think the GOP needs to work with Trump as much as possible just to keep GOP turnout somewhat up and fight for Senate seats. Clinton's not as good of a candidate/campaigner as Obama or B. Clinton, but she's going to be organized, well-funded, and approach this election tactically. Trump's campaign -- what exists of it -- is a complete disaster.
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That would be the end of the GOP as we know it,  or the inevitable General Election L that's coming in November with 16 years of Democratic rule. Might need to start to Hinkie it with "the longest view in the room" and just hit reset this Fall. Never a better time for a third party to emerge, which I see being a hybrid of conservative fiscal policy and progressive social policy. An off-shoot that doesn't support tax increases or entitlements like the traditional GOP, but is more progressive on traditional Republican vs. Democrat debate issues like Gun Policy, Abortion, Immigration, etc. would have eight years to get started and gain traction. Might as well, losing this election is the death of the old GOP and it's happening now with Trump at the helm steering the Titanic right into an iceberg.

 
wdcrob said:
They could give him the boot, but it would make things worse for them in the short run.  In the long run tossing him out might prevent someone just like Trump who presents himself much better from taking the country down a fascist path, but it's asking a lot of a politician worried about losing his next election to care about that.
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I don't think any of their options are good. But as it stands currently, every Republican running is going to be in the nearly daily position of having to either side with Trump, denounce the candidate at the top of the ticket, or do the awkward "no comment" dance happening now.

I'm not sure they don't do better just cutting off the leg now and hoping by Sept-Oct things calm down enough to at least have semi-normal State and local campaigns. I read something this morning that roughly 13 million people have voted for Trump in primaries, presumably covering most of his strongest supporters. 61 million people voted for Romney in the last general election and he lost. 

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
I don't think any of their options are good. But as it stands currently, every Republican running is going to be in the nearly daily position of having to either side with Trump, denounce the candidate at the top of the ticket, or do the awkward "no comment" dance happening now.

I'm not sure they don't do better just cutting off the leg now and hoping by Sept-Oct things calm down enough to at least have semi-normal State and local campaigns. I read something this morning that roughly 13 million people have voted for Trump in primaries, presumably covering most of his strongest supporters. 61 million people voted for Romney in the last general election and he lost. 
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Romney lost the popular by 1.7% and won 24 states while Obama won 26. Romney was taken to the woodshed in terms of electoral college votes, 206 to 332. And that's with more than 80% of the party support than Trump received in the primaries (granted without ~5,000 nominees running within the party at first).

This is going to be ugly with the way things are going for Trump.

 
Jeremy said:
It's going to be really interesting when October rolls around and it becomes obvious they can't win.  They went on and on about how the next president should get to appoint the next judge, so they can't push Garland through without admitting that was BS.  I wouldn't put it past them to do it anyway. 
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Not only are they #### at coming up with sound policy, they suck at politics too. It didn't take a genius to see the gamble they were taking with the Senate in play this cycle and the odds are good that it blows up in their face.

 
mquinnjr said:
Romney lost the popular by 1.7% and won 24 states while Obama won 26. Romney was taken to the woodshed in terms of electoral college votes, 206 to 332. And that's with more than 80% of the party support than Trump received in the primaries (granted without ~5,000 nominees running within the party at first).

This is going to be ugly with the way things are going for Trump.
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That is incorrect, Romney lost by almost 4%: http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php


 


Presidential
Candidate


Vice Presidential
Candidate


Political
Party


Popular Vote


Electoral Vote




Barack H. Obama


Joseph R. Biden, Jr.


Democratic


65,918,507


51.01%


332


61.7%




Willard Mitt Romney


Paul Ryan


Republican


60,934,407


47.15%


206


38.3%

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Surprise, surprise. It's almost as if his campaign is a big profit making development deal.
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I'm not sure how much profit he'll make from this though.  I can't imagine major corporations will be handing over money to advertise on the "Trump Network."  Businesses are distancing themselves from him all over the place:  PGA moved the WGC, British Open was denied to Turnberry, and a couple of restaurants backed out of their deals to open in the Old Post Office Building in DC.

I'm kind of interested if the trial on the latter means financials will be released about how Trump's businesses have done since he declared his candidacy, since their argument is that he poisoned any possibility of a successful restaurant.

 
squistion said:
That is incorrect, Romney lost by almost 4%: http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php


 


Presidential
Candidate


Vice Presidential
Candidate


Political
Party


Popular Vote


Electoral Vote




Barack H. Obama


Joseph R. Biden, Jr.


Democratic


65,918,507


51.01%


332


61.7%




Willard Mitt Romney


Paul Ryan


Republican


60,934,407


47.15%


206


38.3%
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OK, you win math and my Googles were not thorough. Besides the stab, any other input on the point?

 
TobiasFunke said:
I think the GOP is better off legging this one out. Right now everyone's attention is on the race and the back-and-forth between the candidates because both candidates locked down nominations recently and there's not a lot of mindless distractions, so obviously that's drawing attention to what a disgraceful POS Trump is and how embarrassing it is for the party. But in about two weeks most people will be distracted until Labor Day. July 4th weekend, then the conventions (which Trump should be able to get through without too much more embarrassment, since they're tightly choreographed), then everyone goes on vacation and/or watches the Olympics for the month of August.  Next thing you know we're eight weeks from the election. 

If things don't change they'll take some hits in November to be sure, but we're not gonna get five more months of a one-sided race and daily outrage from all sides at all things Trump. That just doesn't seem possible.
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A month or two ago, I would have agreed with this.  In fact, the prospect of Trump frightened me as he pivoted to the general and acted with some modicum of decency, decorum, and competence.  But, if what we've seen the past few weeks--if this is, in fact, his general election pivot and strategy--he's in a dumpster fire, continuously dousing himself with gasoline.  As he continues to say and do horrendous things, he's going to lose more and more of his base to the point of retaining only the lunatic fringe.  

So, if I'm a (R) representative up for re-election, I get ahead of this thing asap and jump out of the dumpster fire.  The daily outrage from Trump seems part and parcel of his strategy, and I'd want to retain a shred of integrity and credibility by getting out of this mess sooner rather than later.  The alternative, it seems, is having to explain the continued support for this buffoon over the next few months, which requires remarkable acrobatics at this point--and will be outright impossible at some point the way things are going.  In short, I disagree with you...I don't think there's an end in sight for all the awfulness Trump has to offer.  All indications are this is the plan.

 
He's got plenty of episodes left in this show he's creating to turn to the center and appear presidential for long enough. That's what scares me still, his domination of media coverage based on clicks and ratings is still a money train.

 
One huge difference between Hitler and Mussolini on the one hand, and Trump on the other, is that the former were extremely well organized. Nobody would ever call the Fascist campaign in 1922 or the Nazi campaign in 1932 dysfunctional. 

 
Wait until the DNC/Clinton/SuperPAC attack ads begin on Trump.  Plus the debates, which could get VERY ugly.  November could be a rout.

 
timschochet said:
One huge difference between Hitler and Mussolini on the one hand, and Trump on the other, is that the former were extremely well organized. Nobody would ever call the Fascist campaign in 1922 or the Nazi campaign in 1932 dysfunctional. 
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So under Trump even the trains won't run on time?

:tfp:

 
timschochet said:
One huge difference between Hitler and Mussolini on the one hand, and Trump on the other, is that the former were extremely well organized. Nobody would ever call the Fascist campaign in 1922 or the Nazi campaign in 1932 dysfunctional. 
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Eh, that's a bit of a movie fiction. The Nazis earned their rep for efficiency when they took over the state apparatus, the Germans have always had that reputation, they still do.

Before that the Nazis were a thuggish, brutish, ignorant lot who were just opportunistic.

By the way (I'll say it again) if people really think the Hitler/fascist shoe fits you should be opposing the assault rifle ban because that's supposedly the reason anti-government types use to justify owning such weapons, that a fascist/Hitler type could come to power, which always used to be such a joke.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
That list is growing. Just takes some guts people, Trump's FOS, nothing but a gasbag. Just need to stand up to him.
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You can cross a big one off the list though.  Paul Ryan said a few minutes ago that he has no plans to pull his Trump endorsement. No endorsement means as much as Ryan's, and thus no person has as much power to eliminate the threat of Trump once and for all as Ryan does. Unfortunately he sounds like he's a long way from doing the right thing.

Although he did follow it up by skirting a question on Trump revoking the Post's credentials and then seeking out the Post reporter in the room and calling on them for the last question of his PC, which is about as much shade as a guy like Paul Ryan can muster.

 
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