Hankmoody
Footballguy
Nope, wasn't expecting a total waste of time post. Should have though, lesson learned.
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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Team A gives:
Karlos Williams, 1.03,2.09,3.06
Team B gives:
Bridgewater, 1.05, 2017 1st (mid to late), 2017 2nd (early to mid)
Karlos Williams, 1.03,2.09,3.06
Team B gives:
Bridgewater, 1.05, 2017 1st (mid to late), 2017 2nd (early to mid)
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It looks like some one paid a 2017 first to move up two spots without seeing who would be available or where the rookies landed.
There may not be much difference between the 1.03 and 1.05 when all is said and done. I can't understand this one at all.
Flurry of activity in two of my leagues this week (some already reported here I will try to leave out, some blockbusters), both are 12 team, 1-2-3-1-flex with PPR. Edit: one league has a 1.13 pick toilet bowl.
-Jeremy Hill + 2.08 + Future 3rd
for
Yeldon + 2.12
-DBG + Eifert
for
Kelvin Benjamin + Kevin White + 1.09 + Jaelen Strong
-Cooks + Kevin White
for
Amari Cooper + 1.08
-Jordan Reed
for
1.10 + 2.03(16th pick)
-Matt Ryan + Karlos Williams + Zach Zenner
for
1.11 + 2.11(24th pick)
-1.09 + Joique Bell
for
Michael Floyd
-Jeremy Hill + 2.08 + Future 3rd
for
Yeldon + 2.12
-DBG + Eifert
for
Kelvin Benjamin + Kevin White + 1.09 + Jaelen Strong
-Cooks + Kevin White
for
Amari Cooper + 1.08
-Jordan Reed
for
1.10 + 2.03(16th pick)
-Matt Ryan + Karlos Williams + Zach Zenner
for
1.11 + 2.11(24th pick)
-1.09 + Joique Bell
for
Michael Floyd
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah I was not involved, other than I was trying to broker a three-team deal where I would walk away with the 1.05 and 2.06, but it fell apart. The guy that sold the 1.03 also owns the 1.01 and 1.02, so I'm pretty sure both parties knew who would be available at 1.03, but as you say we don't know what NFL situation they will be in. The guy that moved up said he wanted either Treadwell or Doctson. I don't know. I was going to give one of three 2017 1sts and a late 2017 2nd to get 1.05 and 2.06 - I'd like to snag Coleman or Shepard there. I'm going to wait until after the NFL draft, though.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Dude really wanted to move up two spots, and the other guys is stacking 2017 1sts.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Outside of Cleveland, what possible landing spots would change anyone's opinion about the top 3-5 guys. In response to the statement above that the 1.03 and 1.05 could be virtually the same after the NFL draft.
I'm not sure of any spot that would change my opinion of Elliot, Treadwell, Doctson or Coleman, well besides Cleveland that is.
I'm not sure of any spot that would change my opinion of Elliot, Treadwell, Doctson or Coleman, well besides Cleveland that is.
5Rings
Lurker
matttyl
Footballguy
Elliott in Dallas >>>>> Elliott in Miami (via them trading up). Henry in Dallas, you've got a new guy in your top 3. Not so much on the WRs, though.
Pwingles
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
The rams would have destroyed the value of any wr they took. So glad to see them trade out of every relevant pick
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Henry going to Dallas or Seattle (or some other spots) could bump him into the conversation a top 3 slot which would then bump one of Treadwell, Doctson or Coleman to 1.05 - in that case there wouldn't be much difference in the 1.03 or 1.05.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
There are a number of scenarios where these guys might get rearranged a bit (New Orleans might be an interesting spot for a WR, IDK), but it's also fair to ask the following: If you don't trade up for picks now, will you still be able to later? So, that 1.03, for example, is that guy willing to sell that spot after spending so much to get it? That spot might not really be available anymore. So perhaps there is something to say for striking when the iron is hot. That being said I think he overpaid, and of course he could still sell if the price is right, but the chances are much slimmer. He clearly moved up with the intention of picking a player. I'd like to move up and maybe grab that 1.05 that got swapped, and I happen to know that it is still for sale. But if someone else swoops it, then my chance may be gone. I'm not so eager that I'm going to overspend for it, but if I wait until after the NFL draft the price will likely only go up.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I totally agree. In this league, though, these guys are all WR maniacs. Elliot might even make it that far depending on landing spots. My argument above is more about me moving into the first round at all than it is about him moving from 1.05 to 1.03.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's the biggest (and really only) problem with the trade. He grossly overpaid to move up two slots - and on top of that the move up may become completely meaningless after the NFL draft. It's even conceivable that they guy he wanted at 1.03 right now falls to 1.05 anyway.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Ask 3 guys their favorite of Doctson/Treadwell/Coleman and you might get 3 answers. I have changed my mind about ten times. If Treadwell ends up in new Orleans, Coleman in Houston with BoB, and doctson in Cincinnati I would be hard pressed to pass on any of them. Put Treadwell on the rams (before today) or buffalo, Coleman on Kansas City, and Doctson in Arizona and I'll just go best rb available I guess.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yeah I was only responding to Run who asked how the NFL draft could change anyone's value of the top 5 picks.
Additionally other WRs or RBs that land in ideal spots will have their value artificially inflated and they can vault up the rookie ranks. That happens every year. A RB that had no buzz (like say Cobb last season) lands in a spot where it looks like he'll be a starter and all of a sudden he's a first round pick in some leagues.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
12 team ppr QB / 2RB / 3WR / TE / FL
Team A trades
Wheaton, Markus PIT WR
Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.01
Year 2017 Round 3
Year 2017 Round 4
Team B trades
Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.02
Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.04
Year 2016 Draft Pick 2.02
Team A trades
Wheaton, Markus PIT WR
Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.01
Year 2017 Round 3
Year 2017 Round 4
Team B trades
Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.02
Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.04
Year 2016 Draft Pick 2.02
Run It Up
Footballguy
Fair enough I guess I'm being close minded about this class. I normally value talent and situation pretty evenly but seemed like a push for the top 4 maybe 5 if you throw in Henry.
I agree LA with a WR before the trade would have been close to near Cleveland levels of avoid.
I agree LA with a WR before the trade would have been close to near Cleveland levels of avoid.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
That's cool, I appreciate your opinions on these threads, and the John Lennon icon only adds credibility, IMHO!
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I would take 1.02, 1.04 and 2.02 all day long. I'd have to run to my clicker if I was offered this. And I like Wheaton more than most, due to opportunity.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Gave: Bilal Powell
Got: Robert Woods
The owner then flipped Powell for a 2017 2nd rounder. (I'd have done that if I'd known the guy wanted Powell
Got: Robert Woods
The owner then flipped Powell for a 2017 2nd rounder. (I'd have done that if I'd known the guy wanted Powell
I actually think Cleveland is a better landing spot than Cincinnati and Minnesota but I also think the chances they pick a WR at pick 32 or before as really high.
Other than Saints, who I don't think will take a WR at 12, none of the WR needy teams excite me. Just some worse then others.
But last year I thought Agholor, Perriman, Cooper and Parker landed in good to great spots but 3 of them did very little.
I have pick 5 in two leagues and pick 6 in another and honestly I'm not sweating it right now. I figure I'm either going to get Doctson/Treadwell or Coleman and live with a poor landing spot because that's what pushed them to 5 and if all 3 are gone it means I get any RB not named Elliot with the 5th pick and not much difference with the 6 pick.
My best guess is a RB not named Elliot is going to land in a solid spot and will be a consensus top 5 pick and push one or two of those 3 WR's mentioned to 5 or 6 in a high majority of drafts. Either way is good with me. I also have two RB's rated above Henry right now. Maybe one WR or RB not named Elliot lands in a sweet spot and becomes a consensus #2 but I right now the way I think this is going to unfold is where the difference between pick 1.2 or 1.3 is going to be next to nothing versus pick 5 or 6.
Run It Up
Footballguy
How do you figure?
For clarity, my stance is, they are easily the worst organization in football in one of the toughest divisions, have a questionable QB and have not done anything in the last decade that makes me think they don't destroy their own skill position players especially runningbacks, somehow.
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coolnerd
Footballguy
12 PPR, IDP, TE premium 1/1/3/1/ flex 2 ( I am not Team A)
Team a Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.01
Team b Roethlisberger, Ben PIT QB;Garcon, Pierre WAS WR; Year 2016 Draft Pick 3.04; Year 2017 Round 1 Draft Pick from Sabre Springs Archers
-------------------------------------------------------------
Team a Green-Beckham, Dorial TEN WR;Perriman, Breshad BAL WR
Team c gave up Moncrief, Donte IND WR
Team a Year 2016 Draft Pick 1.01
Team b Roethlisberger, Ben PIT QB;Garcon, Pierre WAS WR; Year 2016 Draft Pick 3.04; Year 2017 Round 1 Draft Pick from Sabre Springs Archers
-------------------------------------------------------------
Team a Green-Beckham, Dorial TEN WR;Perriman, Breshad BAL WR
Team c gave up Moncrief, Donte IND WR
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
I think those are both terrible trades for team A
A lot of reasons actually. Over the past few years I've heard a lot of players, high stakes players, say they want no part of Clevelands offense.
4 years ago they gave you a top 10 RB. 3 years ago they gave you a top 5 WR and a top 5 TE in the same season and last year they gave you a top 5 TE. So to me this shows you can be a stud on a bad team with a bad QB and shows that they have had success with their skill position players. And considering that out of those players the only one I thought was really a stud was Gordon that's all the more impressive.
I also think all of those players were actually assisted by the teams overall sorriness which forced them to throw more.
Now as I see them going forward maybe their new analytical approach with Hue will make them stable but they sure don't look to be focused on next year. Again, for a WR I don't view this as a bad thing, it's just more passing.
Lastly with Gordon so up in the air it stands to reason that if they pick a WR high he's got a great shot to be the #1 guy and get heavy target usage.
Now look at Cincy. AJ Green is a target hog and Eifert is a red zone hog. We just saw Marvin Jones and Sanu as somewhat coveted free agents and they were left to fight for scraps. I don't see that changing with any WR they might pick in round one. With Green/Eifert the two good RB's and solid defense it's hard for me to envision a high target guy playing that spot opposite Green. Between Cincy and Cleveland I view the path to high usage as a night and day difference.
Now look at the Vikings. For very short term they look like what Seattle was the past few seasons. Just not much passing. Strong D, ADP is their MO. Eventually as they move indoors next season and AP fades they will probably open it up more. Now I think you can win with Teddy B but I also think he's very similar to Alex Smith, he's not a gunslinger and in terms of fantasy he needs a WR to make him(like Green/Eifert does Dalton) more than I think he'll make a WR look good.. I also think Diggs is damn good but he simply suffered from same thing whoever they draft will suffer from, not enough usage especially in the short term. I also think Diggs has a better shot of competing against whoever they could draft in round one to be the teams #1 WR than what a WR would face in Cleveland due to Gordons instability and likely exit when his contract runs out if not before. So between the two teams I view Cleveland as team that offers least competition for targets and a team that will throw it way more often.
branch0095
Footballguy
Even with the increased value that IDP gives those later picks, this seems VERY cheap for Evans to me.
branch0095
Footballguy
I'm so over these players with substance abuse issues. I wish them well and hope they get their lives and careers back on track, but for now on they can do that on somebody else's roster. Sold off my last share of Martavis.
12 Team PPR. 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2Flex
Gave: Martavis/2.09/'17 1st/'17 3rd
Got: Hilton/Michael/Ware
I've picked from the 11 slot for 3 straight seasons and though I think my team isn't quite as strong as in year's past, I still think it's safely a playoff team and thus I believe the future 1st will be no higher than 1.07. I own Charles/West in this league so Ware probably holds more value to me than to any other owner, and Michael was just a "what the heck" throw-in that I hope carries some handcuff value this year.
12 Team PPR. 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/2Flex
Gave: Martavis/2.09/'17 1st/'17 3rd
Got: Hilton/Michael/Ware
I've picked from the 11 slot for 3 straight seasons and though I think my team isn't quite as strong as in year's past, I still think it's safely a playoff team and thus I believe the future 1st will be no higher than 1.07. I own Charles/West in this league so Ware probably holds more value to me than to any other owner, and Michael was just a "what the heck" throw-in that I hope carries some handcuff value this year.
drewd_21
Footballguy
Agreed and I still have 2 1sts and 2 2nds this season....honestly didn't expect an accept for this offer although he does also own Dez and Hopkins.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Is this the same league where you stole Julio? These trades are ridiculously in your favor? Are you a hypnotist or something?
Snorkelson
Footballguy
I've been saying this for a few weeks now, history has shown it is a tough path back. I still shake my head that some people tried to "buy low" on Hernandez, people still roster Blackmon, and people are still buying Gordon. It seems the thought is "if Gordon plays, he will be what he was in his record year" and I just don't buy that he will just slide back into dominating everyone. May as well buy low on Titus young and joseph randle while we're at it.
drewd_21
Footballguy
jeaton6
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
Pwingles
Footballguy
your side in both, nice work
Evans, unless the other side has 3 better wr than evans, then i like it for their side
agree
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
12 team PPR, and we have to cut down to 16 prior to the rookie/FA draft, including a kicker and a defense, which in my mind makes 2nd and 3rd round picks much more valuable than one might otherwise assume. QRRWWTFFKD
I gave Matt Forte
I got 2017 2nd & 2017 3rd - I expect both to be early
Some names in the FA pool include:
VJax,Janis, Conley, Crowder, Sanu, Kearse, Khiry, Thompson, Blount, Spiller, McKinnon, Cook, Witten, Clay, among others. Not that these names are earth-shattering, but there are definitely some depth picks that will allow for the rookies to go deeper.
I gave Matt Forte
I got 2017 2nd & 2017 3rd - I expect both to be early
Some names in the FA pool include:
VJax,Janis, Conley, Crowder, Sanu, Kearse, Khiry, Thompson, Blount, Spiller, McKinnon, Cook, Witten, Clay, among others. Not that these names are earth-shattering, but there are definitely some depth picks that will allow for the rookies to go deeper.
Your league has similar cut down numbers to FFPC leagues and private leagues I'm in that mainly adopted FFPC rules with main exception majority those leagues cuts are due by last day in February.
You had stated that due to cut down to what essentially amounts to 14 position players it makes second and third round picks more valuable. You may be right, I used to think so as well, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Without any doubt it is beyond debate that the smaller rosters bolster the available draft class and typically late second/early third is when you start seeing a lot of that benefit of the veteran cuts.
But due to the smaller roster sizes it makes holding onto the non-pedigreed prospects that much more challenging which to me has the impact of actually making the late second/early third round type picks less valuable than larger roster leagues.
I'm not in many larger roster dynasty leagues but the few that I am I've actually come to value the late second/third round picks in those leagues more than a FFPC type league, even with a watered down talent pool, simply because those leagues afford me the option to be patient.
I'd still rather have old Forte right now than those picks.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Fair points. We also have 5 taxi squad spots and we can carry 23 active players during the regular season. So depending on how the board shakes out, rookies that might fall a little further are likely going to go on my TS where they can stay 3 years. There are also going to be some more names added to that FA pool once we cut down. There may quite a bit of pedigreed names, again not necessarily earth shattering, but I'm looking at one team in particular and trying to guess who they're going to drop. There are other teams in similar predicaments. Take a guess and pick 1 player to drop out of the following:
Palmer (the only QB, so would be illegal to drop), Abdullah, Freeman, Ingram, D Murray, Dez, Decker, Edelman, DJax, Jordy, Snead, D Thomas, M Bennett, J Thomas, Walford.
With a couple weeks to go to cutdown date I'd probably try and flip two for one, or one for a draft pick, but with a gun to my head if I had to pick one, I'm stuck. Snead or Abdullah I guess. There are a lot of owners that would use a late 2nd or early 3rd on those guys, or others.
With respect to the bolded line above, I don't understand the argument for why that makes those picks less valuable. My idea with the picks I got for Forte would be to snag a couple rookies from what is expected to be a very good class that slid a little further than they normally would have. I suppose it might be less valuable to a team that is stacked, but more valuable to a team that is somewhere in the middle, like mine. I'm going to the cutdown with Brady, Carr, CJ, Gio, McFadden, Langford, A Brown, Fitzgerald, B Marshall, Maclin, Cruz (what the hell), Cameron, Walker, Graham, D & K. I now have 3 2017 1sts, 2 2017 2nds and 2 2017 3rds. I imagine I will compete this year, but I need to get younger at WR, and next year's draft looks good for me.
matttyl
Footballguy
Just curious, but why? Because of their QB, or because they have (for another year or two) possibly the greatest RB in history?
Did going to Buffalo cap Sammy Watkins? We're going into year 3, he's a top 10 dynasty WR, and could be a free agent and be anywhere in 2 years.
The smaller rosters make it more difficult to keep those players whose long term future you believe in but did not do enough in year one to justify keeping when cuts are due. If the 5 man Taxi squad is above and beyond the 16 team roster that's a huge difference, but I'm talking about a pure cut down to 16 or 14 position players which makes keeping prospects who did not do a lot when cuts are due pretty challenging.barackdhouse said:
I mention pedigree because most fantasy teams that commit first round dynasty rookie picks on players tend to keep them even if they do next to nothing. I don't see teams cutting Agholor, Perriman or Coleman types for instance.
Many examples I could use but one I will right now is Coates. Coates was third round pick in most leagues I'm in and in most of those leagues he got cut at the deadline to trim rosters(which was before Bryant got suspended). He was not that expensive in the first place and did close to nothing so not an easy guy to keep. Now in a league with a larger roster size I think he would have been been kept in most leagues even with Bryant's suspension not having been announced.
I may not be explaining this well but short version is the mid to late second and beyond rookie draft picks normally need to show something and quickly in order to maintain a roster spots in smaller roster leagues. When the leagues have larger rosters you can afford to be more patient with these players which to me adds value to the picks as I can identify prospects I like and not worry so much about instant impact as I can more easily hold them a little longer.
