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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
I also like the Scary Terry side, but I think the picks have a lot of value here.
It's closer than I first thought, which was a slam dunk for Terry and Wentz. Now, it's not so much. Depends how you feel about Ridley. Will he come back and be effective next year? I guess if you're playing for this year, it's much easier to have an asset on your roster that you can use or move rather than a guy taking up space.
Anyway, close.
It's closer than I first thought, which was a slam dunk for Terry and Wentz. Now, it's not so much. Depends how you feel about Ridley. Will he come back and be effective next year? I guess if you're playing for this year, it's much easier to have an asset on your roster that you can use or move rather than a guy taking up space.
Anyway, close.
Birdie048
Footballguy
So the basic idea was D Jones, E Engram and 2 x2nds for a Top 4 in 2023? That works!Hot Sauce Guy said:I gave:
2022 2.09, 2023 2nd (4-5-6) 2024 3rd (), Michael Carter, Evan Engram
I got:
2023 1st (likely top 4 pick)
I dealt Danny 10-Cents & 2022 1.08 for M.Carter & the 2.09, so here i added a ‘23 2nd, a 24 3rd & Engram to get my 4th pick in the top 5, and 6th 1st round pick in 2023. I’ll have 2 more between 1.08 & 1.12.
Been trying to lose Engram for years.
Jones values is hard to gauge today. Not sure who will start NYG QB role.
Not completely… looks to me like;
Jones, Engram, 1.08, 2023 2nd and 3rd
for early 2023 1st.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yep. Plus 2022 1.08.
The only piece I minded losing was the 2023 2.04-5-6
I should have 4 of the top 5 picks in ‘23, plus 2 in the 8-12 range, and 2.01.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Correct, except the 3rd is in 2024.
Jones & Engram are 2 guys I’ve been trying to get rid of for 2-3 years. And the 2022 2.09 came back from the DJ/1.08 deal for Carter.
So actual “out of pocket” cost was
Daniel Jones, 2022 1.08, 2023 2.(4-6-ish), 2024 3rd
for
2023 top 4 pick
it wasn’t cheap, but I like the potential to get Young, Bijan, Gibbs & either Stroud or one of JSN or Boutte. Plus possibly Tank Bigsby or Zach Evans later in the round, or Michael Mayer, or another of the many RBs I like in the ‘23 draft. Things might change between now and then, but having 7 of the top 13 picks & getting 1-2 QB, 3-4 RB and a top WR really helps me rebuild around my 6-7 “foundational players”.
And that’s likely the last deal I’ll be able to make for this total rebuild, barring Fuller or Zay Jones developing trade value between now & 2023.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I like the deal - Wentz is a sketchy QB, but SF does things to a person. Terrible things. I like getting Scary Terry back, too. You got rid of Ridley, and the only thing you gave up of importance seems to be Pittman.mzkp54 said:
Good deal.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
12 team ppr QB/2RB/3WR/TE/FL
Team A gave up
Team A gave up
- Gallup, Michael DAL WR;
- Pringle, Byron CHI WR
- Peoples-Jones, Donovan CLE WR;
- Aiyuk, Brandon SFO WR
Give me B, but value seems fairly close. This feels like a trade between fans of the players.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This one’s tough. I don’t love either side. Gallup off the late knee injury & Pringle’s age/new QB tips it to DPJ/Aiyuk for me.
Aiyuk is the most appealing player in the deal, so that makes it easier.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m not sure I would unless I already had 5x 1sts. This puts me in a rare position to bring in 4 of the top 5 rookies, and 7 of the top 13. Losing Carter helps me to get 1.01, of course. I’m now likely to have 1-2-3 and either 4 or 5.
It was expensive (see: last post prior page for total out of pocket cost), so hopefully I pick well next year.
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Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
This seems like a lot on the surface but if it truly ends up being a top 4 pick, I like it. Carter is the only thing there that is a real piece for a good team and he is expendable. I'd make this move.Hot Sauce Guy said:I gave:
2022 2.09, 2023 2nd (4-5-6) 2024 3rd (
I got:
2023 1st (likely top 4 pick)
I dealt Danny 10-Cents & 2022 1.08 for M.Carter & the 2.09, so here i added a ‘23 2nd, a 24 3rd & Engram to get my 4th pick in the top 5, and 6th 1st round pick in 2023. I’ll have 2 more between 1.08 & 1.12.
Been trying to lose Engram for years.
Based in large part on @barackdhouse reading this post:menobrown said:
Menobrown gave: CEH, 3.4, 2023#5
Barackdhouse gave: Travis Etienne, 2023#3 and 5.1
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That team has picked 3,4,4 the last 3 years. He doesn’t have a 1st or a 2nd this year, and Carter isn’t that much of a difference maker compared to how stacked the top 7 teams in this league are.
4 of my picks are now from the bottom 5 teams.
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
I'd say safe to believe it is top 4 then. Good move really. Didn't give up anything that is really a part of championship roster. I'm trying to figure out a way to get more picks in the 1st of next year as I have 3 but having trouble finding that. Plus, I have won 2 chips in a row so can't rebuild right now. I'd like your picks in the 23 draft though. Should make it fun.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The picks seem like a wash, so it all depends on how one feels about ETN vs CEH.
Like ETN’s lisfranc, I’m torn. (Rimshot emoji)
I fear Walrus will never use CEH as a feature back. GL & receptions are a mystery going forward. And it’s a pass-heavy offense, which doesn’t help his cause if he’s not getting 3-6 receptions/game.
ETN is a complete mystery as to his recovery, potential usage, split with Robinson (is Robinson still a thing in JAX?), receptions, carries/touches, short yardage - no idea about any of it.
No question JAX has made some good moves this off-season (even if financially unsound) - they’re building a better team, which is what matters from a FF trade perspective.
Honestly not sure who wins this deal, considering the factors.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
i sure hope so, because 2021 wasn’t fun, and 2022 is likely to suck too.
But every now and then I’ll look at my draft picks and smile though, knowing the best is yet to come. Unless I pick all busts, which I concede is absolutely possible.
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Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
Yea, I couldn't imagine trading out of a draft completely. Even when competing. I like draft day too much for that. I think you said you did that in 21. 23 should allow you to build a dynasty and the league will regret letting you have that many high picks. I have 1 that will be a top 4 and 2 that will be between 9-12 so I'm not as good as you are but looking forward to it.i sure hope so, because 2021 wasn’t fun, and 2022 is likely to suck too.
But every now and then I’ll look at my draft picks and smile though, knowing the best is yet to come. Unless I pick all buddy, which I concede is absolutely possible.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah - I moved off of 6-7 aging assets at the beginning of ‘21 after being a playoff team for 3 years.
Then used Mahomes to get a small pile of talent & picks, and just lost my mind from there.
it’s a fun experiment. Hopefully it’ll be worth it.
Also *busts, not ”buddies”. Stupid autocorrect.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
2022 2.09+3.11+4.01
For 2023 likely mid first round pick
For 2023 likely mid first round pick
Jonesin For Some Football
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
A bargain compared to what I've paid for some 2023 picks. I can't imagine what the seller was thinking - I just don't see the value adding up to that 1st at all.
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greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Honestly, even if they're a surprise playoff team and you only get an 8-12 pick here, you still turned a hefty profit, IMO.Now I just need to hope for a his team to stink this year
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
If those one of those 3 picks saves his bacon and he wins the championship, I guess I moved up 10 spots by punting a year and throwing in some really late picks
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
Rockchild
Footballguy
Nice for you. Don't see the value for him. Maybe if the 2.09 was in the 2.01-2.03 range I can see it being closer but no reason to do that this far out from the draft. I'm sure that deal is available when the 2.09 is on the clock and your sleeper/target is still on the board. Not something I would do. I would prefer something more concrete if moving a 1st round pick.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
lol that's true
Yep
It's not close
I don't think it seems anywhere close to a lot on the surface. I like Carter quite a bit, too, but would never pay that for him (today).
Yes and yes.
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barackdhouse
Footballguy
FFPC 1QB
I gave 1.02, 2.05
I got Godwin, A Jones, Stafford
This one got protested (by one owner so far). The offer was sent to me yesterday afternoon and for about 3 hours I thought to myself "do I really want to do this? and why haven't I ran to the accept button yet?"
I actually went back and forth quite a bit before taking it. Based on team needs this may or may not be the best move for me. I needed a QB really bad. I need more WRs bad. I have two top RBs and nothing else there. So it fits my needs, but it just felt a little off.
Eventually I gave in because the value is too good and too many needs are being met. We'll see if it stands. We have all seen a million trades far worse than this. 1.02 is a big deal.
I gave 1.02, 2.05
I got Godwin, A Jones, Stafford
This one got protested (by one owner so far). The offer was sent to me yesterday afternoon and for about 3 hours I thought to myself "do I really want to do this? and why haven't I ran to the accept button yet?"
I actually went back and forth quite a bit before taking it. Based on team needs this may or may not be the best move for me. I needed a QB really bad. I need more WRs bad. I have two top RBs and nothing else there. So it fits my needs, but it just felt a little off.
Eventually I gave in because the value is too good and too many needs are being met. We'll see if it stands. We have all seen a million trades far worse than this. 1.02 is a big deal.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Thank you, by the way. I *have* been advertising ETN since forever so it isn't completely out of left field. And you paid more in your other deal and I knew that. Certainly seems a square deal. I am absolutely rooting for ETN to be healthy and good. Have him in a couple other spots still.
I think most of the community is too low on CEH based on unmet expectations from his draft capital, both NFL and FF. But I think it is premature for people to consider him a bust. I know you're not there yet either, at least not totally. Those two trades from yesterday notwithstanding.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You misspelled "stole".
What a coup to get that much talent for 1.01 & 205
I don't see it as protest-worthy, but it's definitely leaning heavily in your favor. Heavily. Like if the deal was between 2 brothers, and the brother with the terrible team was sending this package of players to the brother with the good team, it would look bad.
But assuming that's not the case, there's no rule against people making bad trades. From your perspective it's a fantastic trade.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I hear you but when someone sends this kind of thing to you, it's more like they got themselves robbed. Like they walked up to you and said "here take my wallet"
But they got the 1.02 so IDK maybe they gave me their wallet that's old (but with a grip of cash in it) and I gave them my designer shoes or something.
I will sometimes ask if a guy like Jefferson is available just to get a dialogue started. Granted everyone "should" be available but that isn't always the case with some people. I have inquired about guys like this and been told they aren't trading that guy. Then it ends right there. It's at least a way to get going on something.Atomic Punk said:
I also will start by asking what someone is looking for (players, picks, RB, QB, WR etc) because they may not view their roster's strength's and weaknesses the same as I do. It makes it easier for both sides if you give me some idea of where you might think you have a need so I can try and target that with my offer rather than firing off some random package that the other owner has no interest in.
I might also ask what players of mine the other guy has interest in. I would rather start with players they have interest in than throwing someone they don't want at all into a deal.
I understand the frustration of having someone say "I want Jefferson, what do you want for him" and leaving it at that. But if you can give some pieces of interest or players you like or don't like it can help save some time. I have no problem doing that when someone comes to me with this kind of question.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
When you consider the totality of what I paid, it's kind of a lot.
DJones + 1.08 is what I paid for Carter + 2.09
Then added in Engram, 2023 2.0(4-5-6) and 2023 3rd.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree. I always prefer being approached to approaching.
When I'm approached I can always squeeze more value out of the deal because it's clear I'm in the driver's seat. It wasn't my idea to deal, and they're coming for my asset.
As such, when I'm approaching others with an offer I'm usually the type to text or GroupMe message them to see if they're interested in moving X player or pick, and for how much. Then the discussion either progresses or not, depending. It's a more neutral starting point, and gets some ideas working before haphazardly throwing offers around. The latter method can sometimes result in overpaying, or worse, undervaluing their asset & accidentally lowballing them.
For example, I clumsily tried to get Chark thrown into a deal, not knowing the owner was super high on Chark. It almost derailed the deal completely.
It's also possible that the draft just isn't as good as the hype. I understand the fun of having all these high picks and going after this kind of thing but in general I don't think it's a great way to build a team. I understand the reasoning and that it could be great but draft picks are usually dart throws even at the top of the draft. So you are maximizing the chances of hitting on one or two of them but that is a realistic best case scenario. Now you have not much else because it was all traded away in prep for this one big draft. You really have to hit on everything for it to be worth it. Could happen but not likely.i sure hope so, because 2021 wasn’t fun, and 2022 is likely to suck too.
But every now and then I’ll look at my draft picks and smile though, knowing the best is yet to come. Unless I pick all busts, which I concede is absolutely possible.
Sure is a fun way to go though. You have all that hope and anticipation it's like an amped up Christmas eve where you think you are getting a new bike, new best game console, greatest toy of the moment, and no underwear/socks (because nobody want that Christmas morning). Hopefully all your dreams come true.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Good post. Yeah I mean if they bring information and ideas to the table then that's great.
I'm one of those guys that has players that aren't available and I will be direct about it in responses. I've told a lot of people this offseason that I'm not interested in moving my 2023 1st. And I'm really not. I have moved two of them so far but only because unsolicited offers blew my socks off.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I have run into many guys with this viewpoint and it usually ends badly for the inquiring guy. By showing an interest in a player some owners immediately jump the price up drastically because, "hey this guy wants player X so he must be willing to overpay". I don't know how many times I have seen this happen. It's very frustrating. I have actually not inquired about a guy because I know that particular owner has this approach.
The trick is somehow trying to figure out what the other owner values a guy like without letting him know you are interested in him.
There are also owners that don't do this and they are much easier to work with.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Absolutely true on all accounts. I feel like Bijan is the real deal, and I'm also quite high on Gibbs. It's important for me to land 1 QB though - critical, even.
So it's also possible that just before, or during the draft, (after I take Robinson 1.01 if that holds true) I'll maybe offer up a couple of 1sts for a young franchise passer from another team. Maybe see how the Burrow or Josh Allen owner is feeling about their depth at QB and whether they want to move them for multiple picks.
There are other possibilities besides picking guys, but if I can help it, I'll draft as many prospects as possible. While riskier, the reward is also potentially higher.
One note: the players I dealt to get here almost all ended up going off of a cliff. ARob, Carson, Hopkins, Samuel, etc. If I'd stood pat, I would have been devastated by age/injury. It was a necessity to blow it up, and I saw more value trading for picks than players at every opportunity. Teams were more willing to deal 2 years out with higher picks, so that's the route I decided on. But no question, my team would have been absolutely worthless at this point had I not made those deals. Mahomes & Evans were the only players who performed post-trades, and I got 2x 1st for Evans, 2x 1sts + Higgins/Z.Wilson/CEH for Mahomes. (turned CEH into getting my own 1st back for 1.01)
No question - I'm already all giddy about it.
I've never done anything like this before so it'll be interesting to see how it goes. And fortunately I do have a core of talent to build around (Higgins, Pitts, ARSB, Gabe Davis, Pittman, Z.Wilson), so my team isn't 100% dependent on hitting on every single pick. It sure would be nice though.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don't necessarily jack up the price, but I'm not about offering a discount, either. If you're coming for my guy - especially one of my top guys, you're paying full price.
As compared to me coming to you & maybe being willing to overpay a little for an asset I am interested in.
And you're correct - you can approach a team with "hey, I've got these picks/players I'm looking to move to get better at X position. Any interest?" and let them tell you who they're willing to move. Dance around that a bit ("eh, I don't love him, what about that guy? No? ok, how about that guy (the one you really want)" and sometimes that works out well.
So yeah, I'm not saying I gouge anyone, but for sure if I know you want my 1 specific best WR, I'm not doing you any favors from there. You tipped your hand.
I wasn't trying to say you do the gouging but the sentiment you conveyed has that mindset to some degree.
I do have guys in my leagues that are all about gouging if you approach them about one of their guys. These are the guys that don't have confidence in their evaluation abilities so if you want one of their guys they must be really good (even if they aren't or they don't really think they are). Because of that they jack up the price. It's frustrating when you are looking for a depth WR3 guy because you have bye week problems or a guy got hurt so you want a depth piece and all of a sudden they want 2 first round picks and the overall RB3 just for that guy.
I am a Vikings fan and wanted Kyle Rudolph back during his rookie season. He had shown ok but not a top 5 TE or anything. I inquired for him, and no joke, the guy countered back wanting 2 first round picks for him just because I wanted him. Needless to say I don't deal with that guy unless he comes to me wanting someone.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
lol - yeah, I've seen that. I overpaid for Pittman for similar reason. Dude was like, "I dunno, I'm a big USC fan and really high on Pittman" - which he would have said some variation of regardless of which player I was inquiring about, because he has every single time. This time I really did want Pittman though so I overpaid by a late 2nd rounder. I was ok with it - it got it done, and I knew he was gonna overcharge me because I came to him.
Lesson learned, albeit expensively.
I think this is where common language & trade calcs can come in handy & help level the field with managers like that. You can run it through a calc and say, "why would I pay 2x 1sts for Rudolph? Here's screenshots of 2 different calcs showing that's outrageous." or something like that.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
One thing I might do is just reach out with a small offer for some other smaller asset and just get any kind of conversation or deal started. Something that could be considered low hanging fruit. End of bench guy that you like for cheap. And then through that process it should be much easier to say "oh hey what about Jefferson?"
Unfortunately I hate trade calculators because I have never seen one even remotely close to real value (at least in my eyes). This is especially true when doing a mix of players and picks.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m just sayin - for something like that Rudolph scenario it would absolutely come in handy. There isn’t a calc on earth that wouldn’t have seen that as an outrageously imbalanced deal.
Sometimes a clueless manager needs that sort of reality check to bring them down to earth.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Based on what I'm reading here, most folks would appreciate a note with a suggestion or two of the framework.
I'm so new to this that I'm not comfortable without looking up trade values in at least 3 places before making a move. I'm looking to rebuild but having the 1.01 every year forever.. maybe not
I'm so new to this that I'm not comfortable without looking up trade values in at least 3 places before making a move. I'm looking to rebuild but having the 1.01 every year forever.. maybe not
I hear you and understand. In this particular situation the other guy already knew he was gouging and was way over asking. It was that bad...hahaha
