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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'd probably slightly prefer Thielen and Hogan straight up but adding the first makes me take that side.
joey
Footballguy
Maybe "Dez" is a nickname for a rookie that I haven't heard of yet? Does Barkley go by "Dez" perhaps?
As I mentioned in my reply to you on the previous page, it that he's not an NFL WR1. PPR is a volume game and it takes some lucky breaks to be WR12 in fantasy points when you are WR24 in targets (as Cooks was in 2016). The 116 targets he received in 2016 would account for 22.5% of the targets in the 2017 Rams offense. Maybe they throw a little more, but I still expect his target share to be less than 20% (yes, it would be weird to pay him that much and not use him more, but his play style and that offense just doesn't point to a lot of targets). The other problem is that even if you like Goff (I do) it is still a tall order to expect him to be as good of a deep passer as Brees.Dr. Octopus said:
And the reason I liked the picks vs. Cooks was not because I think you'll draft a better WR than Cooks with one of those two picks, it's because you might luck into a top 5 pick and be able to trade that pick for something useful. It's just about value. I agree with your premise that a mid-1st round FF rookie is not going to be better than Cooks. But the draft value of a 2019 1st and 2019 2nd could exceed the 2019 draft value of Cooks plus the value of having him this year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well it's one thing for you to say he's not an NFL WR1, but three NFL teams have now spent first round picks to acquire him. And I'm not sure that really matters anyway. Whether he's the WR1 or WR2 on his NFL team - so far it hasn't stopped him from being productive. You say he's "lucky", yeah I guess that's it. Last year he was extremely unlucky - if you watch the games - Brady missed him deep a few times when he was wide open and he drew at least two PI penalties in the endzone so that could have been 3-5 more TDs for him. Maybe he's just good?
As for the middle of your post, let's just say I do not (and never have) agreed with your assessment of his play style" or just what he is as a player. Sometimes you do have to watch games. This isn't the thread for that though.
And as to the last paragraph, maybe you "luck" into a top 5 pick, maybe you don't. Even if you do, I don't see anyone trading one of the handful of WRs or RBs ranked ahead of Cooks for say pick 1.03. That just doesn't happen in the leagues I'm in.
Sometimes dynasty players get so bogged down in "value" that they ignore production. I like winning and production leads to fantasy points which leads to winning. I own Cooks in two dynasty leagues, I finished first in one and third in the other last year and I'm always in the running in those leagues. I drafted Cooks during the rookie draft in both (although I did take him ahead of OBJ in one
). 
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I don't do team projections and when talking about dynasty and a 24 year old receiver coming off three straight 1k+ seasons who just signed a $90 million dollar contract to play for one of the best offensive minds in the game for the prime of his career it's not something I am overly concerned with.
I am also not a believer in Woods and wouldn't be even a little surprised if he was just the next one year flash in the pan. I expect him to take a backseat to Cooks if not immediately than soon.
When I watch Cooks I don't personally see a one dimensional receiver, and as others have pointed out I would be surprised if McVay were willing to invest this much in him if that's all that he saw.
When I watch him I see a natural hands catcher with all the tools to be a team's NFL wr. He is still not even 25 and while he will never be Antonio Brown of course, it's easy to forget that people were saying the same thing about him at this age.
Of course there is risk that he just is what he is and will be no more than a rich man's Sammy Watkins on this team but that risk is built into his value. He fell almost all the way to the 6th round in a SF startup I'm doing now and the cost here (a future 1st) is minimal. I'd easily take him over the top of next year's WRs. It's easy to forget how much risk there is there as well even before they enter the NFL. I'm not sure AJ Brown is really looked at that much more highly right now than Sutton or Treadwell were before they were draft eligible so there is plenty of risk that next year's wr class doesn't shake out so great even as prospects before we start talking about them on an actual nfl field, much less that random 1st being in position to actually draft any that do end up as great prospects.
I am also not a believer in Woods and wouldn't be even a little surprised if he was just the next one year flash in the pan. I expect him to take a backseat to Cooks if not immediately than soon.
When I watch Cooks I don't personally see a one dimensional receiver, and as others have pointed out I would be surprised if McVay were willing to invest this much in him if that's all that he saw.
When I watch him I see a natural hands catcher with all the tools to be a team's NFL wr. He is still not even 25 and while he will never be Antonio Brown of course, it's easy to forget that people were saying the same thing about him at this age.
Of course there is risk that he just is what he is and will be no more than a rich man's Sammy Watkins on this team but that risk is built into his value. He fell almost all the way to the 6th round in a SF startup I'm doing now and the cost here (a future 1st) is minimal. I'd easily take him over the top of next year's WRs. It's easy to forget how much risk there is there as well even before they enter the NFL. I'm not sure AJ Brown is really looked at that much more highly right now than Sutton or Treadwell were before they were draft eligible so there is plenty of risk that next year's wr class doesn't shake out so great even as prospects before we start talking about them on an actual nfl field, much less that random 1st being in position to actually draft any that do end up as great prospects.
Well, in all honesty, it's not my assessment of his play style and did not mean to imply it was. I am pretty much quoting Reception Perception*. I try hard to "know what I don't know" and thus defer to the experts on that kind of thing. FWIW, rarely will I ever default to my own eyeball tests for player assessments. Believe it or not, I do watch the games, but I don't watch each play over and over while creating charts like the experts do.Well it's one thing for you to say he's not an NFL WR1, but three NFL teams have now spent first round picks to acquire him. And I'm not sure that really matters anyway. Whether he's the WR1 or WR2 on his NFL team - so far it hasn't stopped him from being productive. You say he's "lucky", yeah I guess that's it. Last year he was extremely unlucky - if you watch the games - Brady missed him deep a few times when he was wide open and he drew at least two PI penalties in the endzone so that could have been 3-5 more TDs for him. Maybe he's just good?
As for the middle of your post, let's just say I do not (and never have) agreed with your assessment of his play style" or just what he is as a player. Sometimes you do have to watch games. This isn't the thread for that though.
And as to the last paragraph, maybe you "luck" into a top 5 pick, maybe you don't. Even if you do, I don't see anyone trading one of the handful of WRs or RBs ranked ahead of Cooks for say pick 1.03. That just doesn't happen in the leagues I'm in.
Sometimes dynasty players get so bogged down in "value" that they ignore production. I like winning and production leads to fantasy points which leads to winning. I own Cooks in two dynasty leagues, I finished first in one and third in the other last year and I'm always in the running in those leagues. I drafted Cooks during the rookie draft in both (although I did take him ahead of OBJ in one
*which was glowing in some regards - like @FreeBaGeL says, he IS a natural hands catcher - but RP definitely pointed out that Cooks was not a complete WR (he just does what he does very well) making him an excellent complementary WR2. So I stole/passed on that take from Matt Harmon as well.
I feel like you've told me more than once that sometimes you have to watch the games, but if you are also watching the games then you know that EVERYBODY has their QBs miss them on deep shots. To me, that's not unlucky - that's part of the game. What was lucky was that Edelman got hurt and his 10 targets per game were available to be divvied out. At best, we're talking about a wash in good luck/bad luck.
I guess my post came off as negative. I don't think the picks side is some sort of landslide victory and I do think Cooks has a lot of value to fantasy teams. I just fear that in one year his value could be down and we all know in one year the value of that 1st and 2nd will be way up during the rookie hype phase of dynasty (but this is exactly what you are saying with getting bogged down on value - I'm mostly admitting guilt on that front). Also, I think Cooks is a victim of PPR. As mentioned, it's a volume scoring system and I think his limited utility in traffic will prevent him from ever being a volume receiver even though he's getting paid more than some of them.
I think he could be in for 100-110 targets in LA, leading to another stat line similar to last year. The other weapons in the offense should help keep the pressure off of him. The main question mark in my mind is if Goff will be as good as Brees and Brady. Although maybe if I watched the games I'd have seen Brady was awful at hitting Cooks when he was open. I kid, I kid
... to be fair I read that Brady had a really low number of deep attempts, so that efficiency number isn't from a very big sample. Just saying he couldn't have missed Cooks a lot and still maintained that rank. All in all, Cooks would probably have benefited from a less risk averse QB last season (like Brees).
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
yeesh. No offense intended. I went back and looked and you said a few times. I think all deep threat WRs had their QBs miss them a few times. That was all I was trying to get across.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Agreed on all of these points. I don't see the picks as a landslide, but I see the value in them. Especially because you can flip those picks during that rookie hype. I'm not sure Cooks ever is more than what he is, which is fine to most people. He's a very solid WR and not everyone has to have 150 targets and 100 receptions.
He's young, his resume is impressive, and he's on a very good offense. There's not much to dislike about his scenario aside from he may not get the volume of targets that a true #1 WR should be getting. Personally, I was concerned about him turning into a 1 trick pony like D Jackson or M Wallace, as so many speedsters do. He has a better route tree than them from what I read, but that's still a concern to me. Plus I could never get the "Cooks # to 99" out of my head
Avery
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
It’s way ... way, grosser than that.
seems like o’boy is taking advantage of some noobs.
/Shame
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Terrible trade ... imo
What has Hunter Henry proved?
Sony? Oh that’s right ..an injured NE RB?
Gronk side all day
Boston
Footballguy
I'm surprised Team C didn't add in Deuce McAllister as well...gotta love Team C here...wasn't good enough to just get a #1 he held out until he got a #2...well played because if Dez actually gets on a team this year he would have had to really pay thru the nose...
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
If you're referring to posters here, you can use the @ symbol in front of the name
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't see why everyone is complaining so much it is only over paying by a 1st and a 2nd.
joey
Footballguy
I like Gordon more than trying to figure out which rookie RB will be as good as Gordon at 1.3.
JPeso
Footballguy
FFPC -
- Team A Gave: Leonard Fournette, Sterling Shepard
- Team B Gave: Derrius Guice, Ronald Jones, Will Fuller, 2019 1st (1.10-1.12)
Team A is rebuilding and now has 4 1sts next year.
Team B came in 2nd and likely to be in Finals again without the deal.
- Team A Gave: Leonard Fournette, Sterling Shepard
- Team B Gave: Derrius Guice, Ronald Jones, Will Fuller, 2019 1st (1.10-1.12)
Team A is rebuilding and now has 4 1sts next year.
Team B came in 2nd and likely to be in Finals again without the deal.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Not a big Gordon fan I would still take him easilyJWebs85 said:
kutta
Footballguy
I’ll take the chance that one of Jones, Barber, or Williams hits, then it’s a free first.
Not a Cooper fan. I like the other side a lot more.
EBF
Footballguy
I was the one trading Chubb here. Think he has a lot of long-term potential, but I like him more in standard scoring or .5 PPR, whereas the full PPR gives a nice boost to a player like Drake who has plus skills as a receiving weapon. I still have Chubb in one league where I don't need instant production and I plan to keep him there. For this particular roster, I needed another starter and I think Drake has a good chance to outscore Chubb this year and probably leapfrog him on most dynasty boards by the middle of the season. I think Chubb's value will dip until he gets his chance, which could be late in the season.
JPeso
Footballguy
Cooper, unless the 1st looks early?
Own Drake in most leagues, own Chubb in all. Think this is a mistake dealing Chubb.
I have my 3rd rookie running back neck and neck with Gordon. It would really be more about if I were competing or rebuilding, as they are legitimately next to one another in rankings.JWebs85 said:
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I get what you're doing here and at first glace one would almost do a double take here. I think if there's any offense I want to stay away from at this point it's MIA (and I am invested in Gesicki in one league). I agree with your assessment of Chubb. I think it's a long time before he pays off, if he pays off. A RB in RBBC where he's more TD dependent for value vs a guy who is probably going to get several receptions a game, it's very possible this works out quite well for you. It's a risk without a doubt. I think I would rather have Chubb, but that's just because of the whole situation in CLE is better than MIA
I would much rather have Jones/Barber/Williams and the 1st here
NeverEnough
Footballguy
This just happened during our rookie draft. oof! Mind you, this league also has developmental picks so the rookie draft was already super watered down.
Chris Wecht gave up Year 2018 Draft Pick 2.05
and Zach Reinke gave up Year 2018 Draft Pick 2.14 and Year 2020 Round 1 Draft Pick from Zach Reinke and Year 2020 Round 4 Draft Pick from Zach Reinke
He took Jordan Wilkins w/the 2.05 pick.
Chris Wecht gave up Year 2018 Draft Pick 2.05
and Zach Reinke gave up Year 2018 Draft Pick 2.14 and Year 2020 Round 1 Draft Pick from Zach Reinke and Year 2020 Round 4 Draft Pick from Zach Reinke
He took Jordan Wilkins w/the 2.05 pick.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
Last trade of the offseason. Just acquired Dalvin Cook for three 2019 firsts (and Thomas Rawls!) Two of the firsts originally belonged to elite teams and the third from more of a pretender than a contender.
A couple league mates commented that it was aggressive, which is a polite way to say I overpaid. Which I did, of course.
Overall, I am happy with the improvements I made to my roster his offseason.
This team won the title last year thanks to Gurley and luck with injuries:
Brady, Cousins
Gurley, Collins, Ajayi, Horse####
ABrown, Julio, Evans, Agholar, marqis lee
Ebron, Everett
My team this year is stronger and deeper at Rb, while weaker but deeper at Wr. Also, my core players are now much younger, which I thought necessary. And accomplished this without any draft picks except 3.12 to start.
Brady, Cousins, Allen
Gurley, Cook, Collins, Chubb, Sproles
Julio, Evans, Marvin Jones, Hogan, Agholar, Lee, ESB
Ebron, Everett, Cook, Herndon
Sorry for the look at my team rambling but I thought it would be helpful to look back on.
A couple league mates commented that it was aggressive, which is a polite way to say I overpaid. Which I did, of course.
Overall, I am happy with the improvements I made to my roster his offseason.
This team won the title last year thanks to Gurley and luck with injuries:
Brady, Cousins
Gurley, Collins, Ajayi, Horse####
ABrown, Julio, Evans, Agholar, marqis lee
Ebron, Everett
My team this year is stronger and deeper at Rb, while weaker but deeper at Wr. Also, my core players are now much younger, which I thought necessary. And accomplished this without any draft picks except 3.12 to start.
Brady, Cousins, Allen
Gurley, Cook, Collins, Chubb, Sproles
Julio, Evans, Marvin Jones, Hogan, Agholar, Lee, ESB
Ebron, Everett, Cook, Herndon
Sorry for the look at my team rambling but I thought it would be helpful to look back on.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
this isnt such a bad trade. guy owns 2.14 I imagine his 2019 1st will be in the bottom 4. I wouldnt make the trade but I can see the reasoning
Gianluca
Footballguy
Prob just overpaid for Kareem Hunt but idc...
Team A trades Derrius Guice/Marshawn Lynch/Christian Kirk/2019 1st
Team B trades Kareem Hunt/Spencer Ware/Tyrell Williams/2019 3rd
Russ/Ben/Baker
DJ/Hunt/Sony/Ware/Jaylen/Chase
Keenan/DAdams/Tyreek/Diggs/Crowder/Tre’Quan/Tyrell
Engram/Kittle
Team A trades Derrius Guice/Marshawn Lynch/Christian Kirk/2019 1st
Team B trades Kareem Hunt/Spencer Ware/Tyrell Williams/2019 3rd
Russ/Ben/Baker
DJ/Hunt/Sony/Ware/Jaylen/Chase
Keenan/DAdams/Tyreek/Diggs/Crowder/Tre’Quan/Tyrell
Engram/Kittle
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Ray Barboni
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I think you overpaid and unless you are in the title game this year I think you will regret that trade next year.
Gianluca
Footballguy
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Whoa buddy ...
Hunt is nice, but we’ve seen RB’s fall off before. You overpaid Holmes
2 top 10 picks this year, Lynch AND the 1.01 in 2019?
Duuuuuude
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
All leagues are different. In my league I usually have to overpay for guys I want. I would be happy giving what you gave to get Hunt. Your team looks good enough to win now so go for it. Who knows what Guice would have been this year.....and who knows what Guice will be after rehabbing from a major injury. Lynch is a one year asset, Kirk may never be more than Tyrell, and the pick is the difference in cost. Give me Hunt.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
I’m guessing that the 2019 pick is not 1.01 and unlikely to be with those Wr.
I’m not a believer in Hunt (I actually like Guice at least as much) but if you are then this is the kind of deal you make to put yourself in the driver’s seat for this season, IMO.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
I’m fairly sure he was saying he would regret the trade if it turned out that way. Are there leagues where the draft order gets determined preseason?
My point was I would rather fill a hole on a very strong team by overpaying with whatever spare parts I had for a young stud then trying to rent an older vet using only some of those spare parts.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I don't think he ever said that. Someone said it would be a really bad trade *if* it was 1.01. I think the trade is fair.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Got it ... buddy worded as if it “was” the 1.01
Still, if I’m going to overpay - it’s not going to be for Hunt. Spencer Ware is still going to be very much involved. I just think for what he gave, he could’ve gotten more.
oldmanhawkins
Footballguy
I agree with that, Hunt wouldn’t be my target.Ray Barboni said:
gianmarco
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
skycriesmary
Climbing up the Walls
10 Team PPR Dynasty with IDP
Team A trades A Cooper, 3.3
Team B trades 1.8, 3.9
Team A trades A Cooper, 3.3
Team B trades 1.8, 3.9
That’s 3 WR1’s and a WR2, 2 top 10 RBs, QB1, and TE6. Last year is last year, but hard to see a scenario barring very bad luck with injuries where that team isn’t in the running if not running away with a 1st round bye.msudaisy26 said:
I would pay that easily for Hunt in that situation.
