Somewhat surprised by this as Pacheco seems to be lower on most peoples list...
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****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
eighsse2
Footballguy
This board needs signatures so I can have "Disclaimer: My league is RB crazy and my values are skewed that way" on every post.
I will say in my league for this trade RB's are much harder to come by than WR's so it is in line with your way of thinking.
titusbramble
Footballguy
I own Pacheco and would need something extra on top to give him up for Hollywood. No real feelings either way on Brown but I feel his production is much easier to replace than Pacheco's would be. Heck, I probably wouldn't start Brown outside of bye weeks, although that's league/team specific given I've got two top ten dynasty WRs
Da Franchise
Footballguy
The DeVonta trade is right about the absolute dumbest thing I’ve seen in this thread.
eighsse2
Footballguy
In a vacuum, I want the Barkley side, easily.
Whether a 1QB, SF, or 2QB will greatly sway which side I want.
Assuming 1 QB I easily want the Barkley side.
rockaction
Footballguy
KeepTradeCut has Joe Burrow as being a better value than Saquon in 1QB.
That's insane. Give me Barkley any day.
eighsse2
Footballguy
That's one major problem I see on keeptradecut. QB's, or at least the top QB's are wayyy too high. My only guess is some people are rating for SF not realizing there is a slider to switch to SF.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
It shouldn’t be up for debate that Barkley > Burrow in 1 QB leagues. This is short a 1st round pick.
You’ll get 5-10 extra years out of Burrow, but value is easily and firmly on Saquon side. If you’re in some big rebuild I could see why you’d go Burrow, but it’s still an opportunity cost because you could trade Saquon for something more impactful.
You’ll get 5-10 extra years out of Burrow, but value is easily and firmly on Saquon side. If you’re in some big rebuild I could see why you’d go Burrow, but it’s still an opportunity cost because you could trade Saquon for something more impactful.
Oof for the guy giving away the 1.03.
MTskibum
Footballguy
I will try and tag everyone who responded.
@Da Franchise
@rockaction
@eighsse2
@Gally
I am surprised at the reactions to be honest, give me the long term asset over the short term asset any day of the week. In a best case scenario Barkley has 3 years of production and a more likely outcome is 1-2. Where as Burrows minimum window is 5 years of elite production and no one would be surprised if he has 10 years of elite production.
There is positional scarcity, I get that. However locking down that QB position for the long term allows you to take flyers on other positions.
@Da Franchise
@rockaction
@eighsse2
@Gally
I am surprised at the reactions to be honest, give me the long term asset over the short term asset any day of the week. In a best case scenario Barkley has 3 years of production and a more likely outcome is 1-2. Where as Burrows minimum window is 5 years of elite production and no one would be surprised if he has 10 years of elite production.
There is positional scarcity, I get that. However locking down that QB position for the long term allows you to take flyers on other positions.
rockaction
Footballguy
Fair enough. This is what the debate really comes down to. I have Mahomes in one league and Herbert in the other (1QB) and I wouldn't trade either for Barkley given the scoring of those leagues (Mahomes league is 6 pt. touchdowns, the Herbert league is .1 yards per 10 yards passing with 6 pt. touchdowns, so it's extremely tilted towards QBs) so who knows? Maybe it's just easy for me to go with consensus rather than stare into the QB abyss.
joey
Footballguy
Agreed. If I’m stacked everywhere and have lots of great depth at a position I’ll gladly “lose” a trade to be able to start an Uber-stud lineup across the board and hopefully bring home multiple championships.
farfromforgotten
Footballguy
Throw my name in the hat with the above group. I’m living proof of someone who had aspirations of locking down the QB position in a dynasty league by selecting Aaron Rodgers in my first start up back in 2010. I picked 5th and there was a clear top 4 RBs that year in CJ, ADP, MJD, and Ray Rice. This was non PPR at the time and QB scoring was high so I took AROD with the thought of setting, and forgetting, him as my QB for the next decade plus. Foolish young man that I was…
Fast forward a few years and I was a middle of the pack team every season. I decided it was mainly due to my overvaluing of the QB position in a start 1 league so I traded away my best asset in Rodgers for someones 1st and 2nd rd rookie picks in the upcoming draft. I then packaged those picks in a trade for DeAndre Hopkins and began a decade of dominance (consistent top 3 finishes with a few Championships) with the likes of Tannehill and Kaepernick as my QBs.
That may only be a singular case but it taught me a lesson that I’ve lived by ever since - QBs ultimately hold very little value in most start 1 leagues. Positional scarcity is most definitely a thing. I wouldn’t hesitate to trade away Burrow for Barkley, no matter what the rest of my team looked like.
titusbramble
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He paid a solid price for a QB at least.
Boston
Footballguy
A lot depends on rosters and how you feel about the QB position...I am very pro-having a big time QB...due to that if I needed a QB I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on this...it is Dynasty and Barkley who is 26 and has missed more than his share of games will be long gone while Burrow is still putting up big time #'s.
Our rookie draft is tomorrow morning. Guy sold the 1.02 this morning for what I feel is very light.
10 Team, 2QB PPR, TE Premium
Team A: 1.02
Team B: 2023 3.03 and 3.10, 2024 1st(maybe early) 2024 2nd
Guy really sold him on that pick being early next year I guess. It’s not going to be 1.01, but I will say I could see it being as early as 1.02. Or the guy could make some other moves and sneak into the playoffs, who knows. Then this trade looks super horrible.
10 Team, 2QB PPR, TE Premium
Team A: 1.02
Team B: 2023 3.03 and 3.10, 2024 1st(maybe early) 2024 2nd
Guy really sold him on that pick being early next year I guess. It’s not going to be 1.01, but I will say I could see it being as early as 1.02. Or the guy could make some other moves and sneak into the playoffs, who knows. Then this trade looks super horrible.
Boston
Footballguy
The fact this is a 2 QB league makes me really dislike this deal...in 2 QB leagues QBs are beyond valuable...this year you have three potential studs staring you at 1.2 in Young, Richardson and Stroud...even if you are looking to deal you are better off taking one of them in the draft than dealing them later because someone will always be desperate in the 2 QB format...that deal is not good enough to punt on the 1.2 as there is way more downside in it than upside...bad use of a big time asset.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Startup Trade
FFPC $1250 Tri Flex
Got: 1.01, 7.01, 9.01
Gave: 1.08, 4.05, 5.08, 2024 1st
This is my 2nd startup this year, just did the Tri Flex before this one and drew the 9 seed in that one and played it fairly straight with some trade backs in the mid rounds. Drew the 8 seed this time and decided to shake things up. Didn’t really want the same kinda team again even though I really like the one I just drafted. I ended up with bargain QBs last time, so having Mahomes will be fun.
Anyone think this was a massive overpay? I think it was pretty fair. Not a steal or anything.
FFPC $1250 Tri Flex
Got: 1.01, 7.01, 9.01
Gave: 1.08, 4.05, 5.08, 2024 1st
This is my 2nd startup this year, just did the Tri Flex before this one and drew the 9 seed in that one and played it fairly straight with some trade backs in the mid rounds. Drew the 8 seed this time and decided to shake things up. Didn’t really want the same kinda team again even though I really like the one I just drafted. I ended up with bargain QBs last time, so having Mahomes will be fun.
Anyone think this was a massive overpay? I think it was pretty fair. Not a steal or anything.
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It might be a good move for a stacked team in need of a QB. In FFPC one start QB's Barkley and Burrow are not going wildly far from one another in startups over the last month, not anything that would lead me to say the trade was big time one sided. I just think also kicking in Stroud should have got a little something back, a second at least to make up for little gap between Barkley and Burrow and getting Stroud.
That's my opinion of the market overview.
I would personally retain Barkely but part of that is based on my experiences in one QB leagues were trading them for a player like Barkley is rare but to be fair becoming a little more common. I've got a few short roster one start QB leagues with multiple stud QB's and for the most part when I've been able to move a QB it's been at a loss of market value, whereas this trade was a small gain. I do think the roster size of the league(s) is also a factor in these one start QB trades. I'm mainly in shorter roster FFPC leagues when a lot more QB options are exposed to waivers or put back in the rookie draft. Most of my stud QB's were waiver pickups. A larger roster league I might have a different take, especially if my team is a QB away.
Marauder
Footballguy
I like this trade a lot for you. Getting Mahomes in SF is such a huge advantage. I don't think this is an overpay at all.
I only look in 2 year windows for my evaluations in dynasty. Anything longer than that and you can't predict what will happen (coaching changes, injuries, trades, free agency, etc). I just don't see the QB as being all that valuable in 1 QB leagues as you can typically get one for cheap. RB's on the other hand you pay a ransom. So I stick with my take that I am on the Barkley side in this deal.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Both this and Meno’s thoughts sound right to me. I get the appeal of having Burrow for 10 years but his production in 1 QB leagues isn’t even really a big advantage. Longevity, sure, but it’s just so easy to find above average QB play that year to year he’s not providing a huge scoring advantage. More like top 6 when you account for the shorter window rushing QBs that exist now or will come into the league down the road.
Definitely feel the value is on Saquon side, but I could imagine scenarios where I’d rather have Burrow. Still, I probably wouldn’t make that particular deal even if I wanted to move off Barkley. I’d rather trade him for something else.
It’s not a horrible deal or anything. Just feel the value isn’t there but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad trade.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Being able to get top QBs cheaply in start one QB leagues is something that sounds good in theory but isn't something that I've encountered in real life leagues.
It's not so much getting top 5 QB's cheaply it's more that you can get a weekly top 8-12 guy cheaply that will give you top 5 weeks periodically. You can manage that way and be competitive and win.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'll disagree - but obviously my observations are anecdotal.
I tried to cheap out at QB in a few leagues last season and it cost me. I also don't see top 12 QBs go for cheap. Like I said, I get the theory, but it's not the reality in my 5 dynasty leagues.
And this is a great point for sure. Every league is different. What is valued and what you can trade for can vary for sure. Knowing your league and leaguemates is probably the most important thing in trying to trade. The market in your league may make the trades listed here way off base. It's the main reason why trade calculators are terrible.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
This is a valid point, too. Just depends on your league. I have one where either Goff or Geno needed to become an off-season cut. Both were waiver adds and finished QB 8 and 9 if I remember correctly and didn’t finish all that far behind Burrow in ppg. And same league I just rather cheaply traded for Hurts to push Goff to the bench (I cut Geno).
All depends on your league and my experience comes from FFPC, so could always be different elsewhere.
Off the waiver wire I have picked up Hurts(4x) Mahomes (2x and literally a day and some intel I gave somone being used against me from it being 4x), Herbert (2x), Watson(2x), and Lamar.
Mahomes with via a trade of pick 2.10 after his rookie season and Josh Allen with an early third.
I also spent a third on Lamar and for once was the guy who gave up to soon and cut him.
Also 3 mid round 2 picks for Kyler but I don't think we are including him as a top QB right now.
The waiver wire pickups, Mahomes and Allen picks encompass 5 leagues, so a lot but I'm not talking 15 leagues. That's a massive amount of cheap stud QB's for close to free.
So my experience has been different but two things of note:
These are smaller roster leagues, 20 in-season, so patience for keeping these players was thin and what I was trying to mention in an earlier post that the larger roster leagues might not have been putting these players on waivers.
Secondly I think dynasty owners got smarter/more patient. The Hurts hauls during for me came during the late portion of his rookie season. I've not really had success getting a stud QB for cheap, for sure not for free, in the last two seasons. I've only done one startup since 2016, the league with FBG people, and I look like I struck out with Lance and it's my lone team I've not been able to land a stud QB, in part because I'm having a hard time adjusting to paying for one. Speaking of Lance in years past he's the kind of QB that people were cutting in his rookie season when he was not the starter. Now people for the most part have hung onto him, he was only cut in one league of mine and that was not until offseason cuts were due at the end of his second season. This is what I mean by dynasty owners having more patience then they used to have, no one was hanging onto backup Qb's that long just a few years ago.
So again my experience has been different and it for sure shapes my view on valuation of QB's in one start leagues. What remains to me seen is if my views are a little antiquated with owners willing to be more patient and I'll need to adjust later. I don't think so yet, but I might be wrong.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
As you said you play in small roster leagues. My leagues are non-IDP and have 25, 28, 30, 30 and 30 man inseason rosters. No starting QBs are ever on waivers unless they come completely out of nowhere. No one that drafted any of those QBs would have dropped them.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
And I think you have to cut down to 15 in the off-season. It’s easier to see why those QBs would not make the cut.
FWIW all my waiver pickups were in-season and except for Hurts fairly early in the season so the off-season cut number may not have been much of a factor. Most of these leagues are 16 but has to include K and D so 14 position players. One of the leagues is a private run league under mainly FFPC rules and same roster size but we don't have K's so that's an extra roster spot and unlike actual FFPC leagues we don't have to carry a D in off-season cuts so that' two extra players. I have picked up Watson, Hurts and Lamar off waivers in this league.
Just mentioning that for sake of accuracy. I agree with you, and I say it all the time in here, that not all one start QB leagues are the same and what I mean by that is basically the roster size. Hurts might have been the one exception of that group of QB's I gobbled up. He seemed more like a multi year backup before he took the field as I don't think many were predicting they would move away from Wentz so soon, I'm thinking even in a lot of 25-28 man sized one QB leagues he was kicking on the waiver wire late in the season. Maybe? Somewhat ironically he's actually the only one of these QB's I got off the waiver wire I spent more then $75 out of a $1,000 FAAB to obtain and that's just because it was late in the year and I was sitting on money and I went over $150 for him in all 4 leagues I got him. Sad to say i sold him to cheap in 3 leagues I was just up against it on roster room and that's were the off-season cuts got me and got someone else good value. Mahomes I got for $1 in two leagues, one QB league or not that will likely go down as best waiver moves I'll ever make .
MTskibum
Footballguy
This league is 26 roster spots with no kicker or defense. So more equivalent to a 30 player roster.
The best QB currently on WW is Gardner Minshew.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sure that’s possible but wouldn’t necessarily make the case you can find QBs cheaply, in the sense that people can also find gems at RB, WR and TEs on waivers as well.
I’m not saying this to counter your in an “argumentative” way, but just to further the conversation.
That's makes a significant difference in how I would evaluate the trade vs the typical one start QB league's I play.
At a minimum can see that closing the gap on Burrow vs Barkley.
Still think he should have got a little kicked in for including Stroud.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Similar QB Struggles ...
12 Team 25 man roster in season with 2 IR Slots but 30 man roster off season (no IR). Best QB FAs = Darnold, Winston, Wentz & Dalton.
4 Rookie QB's taken in first 2 rounds (Levi went 2.11)
Each league is different in value and trade potential, but acquiring a Top 5 QB is a real struggle.
kutta
Footballguy
And there's always some rookies who fall and who perform well - I got Justin Herbert in the mid third round his rookie year.
And to your point, my bet is in a few years people will be talking about how cheap Hendon Hooker was to acquire.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Yeah this closes the value gap considerably. Might still be a little short but understand why you would do it for sure.
So if we are talking Mahomes, Hurts type we are talking players who would likely be second/third round startup picks in a 25-28 man non-IDP league. Do you think that's accurate? If so how many players do you usually see picked up, who can you recall, that is exposed to waivers in your league that carries that kind of value?
Boston
Footballguy
Give me Dalvin pretty easily...not giving up too much, just nibbling around the bottom of your roster and he should have a couple of more productive years...and if he has a really good season, he either helps you or you can flip him during the year to a contender and get a lot more back than what you gave up.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Agreed. I thought it was cheap payment or maybe this league has large starting lineup requirements like 4-6 WR.
Dalvin Cook easy in this trade
sheerterror
Footballguy
I'll take the 3 dice rolls over the depreciating/ed asset.
