***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE***

[Cookiemonster]

In how many defensive shootouts is the defending party really stuck in a tough spot because they have to reload?

You people understand that Hollywood movies aren't real, right?

True. The good guys don't always hit with every shot and the bad guys don't always miss. When people (other than the hero) are hit with a bullet, they don't fly 10 feet backwards and die instantly. The bad guys also don't always take turns attacking.I've never heard of someone who survived a defensive shooting say, "I only wish I had carried fewer rounds."

Have you ever heard them say, after a home invasion for example, "damn if only I'd had an automatic weapon, things would have ended much better."

For the guys that would have benefited from an automatic weapon but didn't, we usually don't hear much from them. In all seriousness, I've already stated my opinion on the usefulness of full auto. It's suppressive fire. Honestly, for each 100 round can of .50 BMG I'd fire, I'd probably get 2 hits at 500 yards on a truck or tank hulk. My job was fun as hell, but not too useful unless you're doing what my job description

I don't think anybody wants to carry the ammo, let alone the guns for a full auto firefight (Jesse Ventura made it look fun on Predator, but the gun weighs 45 lbs, and the ammo he spent probably weighed another 150-200 pounds). For us, is was to keep heads down while we land and pick guys up, or to keep their heads down while we got the hell out of dodge. Even given the money for one, I doubt I couldn't find better things to spend it on than a crew-served weapon. Uzis and Tech 9s are best left to Hollywood (movies, not bank robbers).

 

[Henry Ford]

[QUOTE='Slingblade]The funny part about your bull#### argument is that more people die from revolvers and standard cap semi-autos than rifles.You want to base this mag cap ban because of extremely rare anomalies.
[/QUOTE]Thank you for explaining my motivation for suggesting something I never suggested.

 

[Hoosier16]

This is exactly why semi-automatics are so much more lethal in these mass shooting instances. I haven't seen any statistical data that suggests semi-automatic handguns are safer than revolvers in a household setting.

The Virginia Tech committee report determined that if he had revolvers with speed loaders it would have been just as deadly.

Not exactly. The committee found, in that particular situation, 10 round clips vs. 15 wouldn't have made much difference, and a revolver with speed loaders could have been about as deadly.

My point exactly.

This seems to be continually ignored. The term "Semi-automatic" gets thrown around with different meanings. With respect to preventing or reducing the mass shootings, can someone from the control side explain exactly where the line should be drawn? Exactly how many shots should you be allowed to fire before having to reload? At what point do you reduce the mass shootings without infringing on an individual's ability to defend themselves?

I personally think the line should be drawn at anything with a magazine. As I've said before, even if you take the gun lobby's own numbers on defensive uses of guns, they demonstrate that the vast majority of the time a gun is used for legitimate protection it isn't even fired once, let alone needing to be reloaded quickly or have high capacity to begin with. I certainly don't think that would stop every shooting but I think it would save lives in nearly every instance that someone sets out intent to kill a large number of people, without making a practical difference in the defensive and recreational uses.

Does that mean you're okay with a revolver but not with a pistol with a magazine? That doesn't make much sense. Or, are you suggesting only a single shot before reloading?

Yes, I would draw a distinction between double action revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. Revolvers typically hold 5-10 rounds, with 6 being the most common. There's no way to slap an extended capacity on them, so you can't turn a 6 shot revolver into a 30 round weapon just by swapping in a larger cylinder. Speed loaders, assuming someone has them, are nowhere near a substitute for the ease and quickness of reloading a semiautomatic handgun.

Again, nearly everyone agrees there is a line of reason where arms need to be regulated. To me, this is the clearest lines where guns move from meeting essentially all defensive and recreational needs, to simply enhancing the ability to kill quickly and in large numbers.

I don't see much distinction.I'm not sure what you mean by your second paragraph, but speed loaders are quite common and very easy to use. They cost around $10-$15, or about half the cost of spare magazines. Here is a short video of a guy using a speed loader. As you can see, he gets off 12 shots in 6 seconds - 2 seconds to fire the first set, 2 seconds to reload, and another 2 seconds to fire again. At that pace, there isn't any reason that someone couldn't fire nearly 100 shots in a minute.

Do you really think that has reduced the ability to kill quickly and in large numbers?

ETA: The link doesn't seem to be working. Google "Revolver Reload with Speed Loaders". First one.

I've seen specialists/trick shooters doing fast reloads with revolvers and otherwise. Just because a specialty skill like that can be done, doesn't mean it can be mastered by the typical psycho who's prone to go out and try to kill mass numbers of people. If it was that easy, the high cap magazines would probably never have been conceived in the first place, since their only purpose is to allow for longer continuous fire without reloading.

You clearly haven't tried it. I'm not trying to be condescending but it's really very easy. It's not a trick and really requires very little training. In fact, it's very common to see people that fast.The magazine size for semi-automatic pistols is generally determined by the size of the pistol (full size, compact, or sub compact) and the caliber of the bullet, except when limited by a state law. A 9 mm full size might hold 17 rounds while a sub-compact 45 might only hold 6. The only thing that was conceived was the smaller magazines, again due to magazine capacity laws.

 

[Slingblade]

This is exactly why semi-automatics are so much more lethal in these mass shooting instances. I haven't seen any statistical data that suggests semi-automatic handguns are safer than revolvers in a household setting.

The Virginia Tech committee report determined that if he had revolvers with speed loaders it would have been just as deadly.

Not exactly. The committee found, in that particular situation, 10 round clips vs. 15 wouldn't have made much difference, and a revolver with speed loaders could have been about as deadly.

My point exactly.

This seems to be continually ignored. The term "Semi-automatic" gets thrown around with different meanings. With respect to preventing or reducing the mass shootings, can someone from the control side explain exactly where the line should be drawn? Exactly how many shots should you be allowed to fire before having to reload? At what point do you reduce the mass shootings without infringing on an individual's ability to defend themselves?

I personally think the line should be drawn at anything with a magazine. As I've said before, even if you take the gun lobby's own numbers on defensive uses of guns, they demonstrate that the vast majority of the time a gun is used for legitimate protection it isn't even fired once, let alone needing to be reloaded quickly or have high capacity to begin with. I certainly don't think that would stop every shooting but I think it would save lives in nearly every instance that someone sets out intent to kill a large number of people, without making a practical difference in the defensive and recreational uses.

Does that mean you're okay with a revolver but not with a pistol with a magazine? That doesn't make much sense. Or, are you suggesting only a single shot before reloading?

Yes, I would draw a distinction between double action revolvers and semi-automatic pistols. Revolvers typically hold 5-10 rounds, with 6 being the most common. There's no way to slap an extended capacity on them, so you can't turn a 6 shot revolver into a 30 round weapon just by swapping in a larger cylinder. Speed loaders, assuming someone has them, are nowhere near a substitute for the ease and quickness of reloading a semiautomatic handgun.

Again, nearly everyone agrees there is a line of reason where arms need to be regulated. To me, this is the clearest lines where guns move from meeting essentially all defensive and recreational needs, to simply enhancing the ability to kill quickly and in large numbers.

I don't see much distinction.I'm not sure what you mean by your second paragraph, but speed loaders are quite common and very easy to use. They cost around $10-$15, or about half the cost of spare magazines. Here is a short video of a guy using a speed loader. As you can see, he gets off 12 shots in 6 seconds - 2 seconds to fire the first set, 2 seconds to reload, and another 2 seconds to fire again. At that pace, there isn't any reason that someone couldn't fire nearly 100 shots in a minute.

Do you really think that has reduced the ability to kill quickly and in large numbers?

ETA: The link doesn't seem to be working. Google "Revolver Reload with Speed Loaders". First one.

I've seen specialists/trick shooters doing fast reloads with revolvers and otherwise. Just because a specialty skill like that can be done, doesn't mean it can be mastered by the typical psycho who's prone to go out and try to kill mass numbers of people. If it was that easy, the high cap magazines would probably never have been conceived in the first place, since their only purpose is to allow for longer continuous fire without reloading.

Fast reloading is not a trick/specialty. It's called practicing and becoming familiar with the weapon.Just like the Virgina tech shooter did. He practiced before he carried out his massacre.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

In how many defensive shootouts is the defending party really stuck in a tough spot because they have to reload?

You people understand that Hollywood movies aren't real, right?

But think of that 1 life you can save by not banning them.sound familiar?

No.

In how many defensive shootouts is the defending party really stuck in a tough spot because they have to reload?

You people understand that Hollywood movies aren't real, right?

But think of that 1 life you can save by not banning them.sound familiar?

WTH??? No.

It's the exact same argument you guys are making about restricting magazine size. That there's a chance you could save 1 more life when these "mass shooters" have to change their 10 round magazines after emptying one during a massacre assuming all of the 10+ round magazines magically disappear once a ban is instituted.

You are hypocrites if you don't see both sides of the coin.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Fast reloading is not a trick/specialty. It's called practicing and becoming familiar with the weapon.Just like the Virgina tech shooter did. He practiced before he carried out his massacre.

You clearly haven't tried it. I'm not trying to be condescending but it's really very easy. It's not a trick and really requires very little training. In fact, it's very common to see people that fast.The magazine size for semi-automatic pistols is generally determined by the size of the pistol (full size, compact, or sub compact) and the caliber of the bullet, except when limited by a state law. A 9 mm full size might hold 17 rounds while a sub-compact 45 might only hold 6. The only thing that was conceived was the smaller magazines, again due to magazine capacity laws.

I was going to type out my background again, and experience training and using guns of all these types but honestly I'm just done here. No one's mind is getting changed. I think we'll probably get a renewed law similar to the previous assault weapons "ban", but obviously that won't affect much. The gun issue is tracking with nearly every other major social issue currently, with the more liberal (in terms of individual rights) position seeming to gain more steady traction. Overall I'm okay with that as long as there is some degree of sanity applied.

 

[WisWolvrns]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

 

[Hoosier16]

Fast reloading is not a trick/specialty. It's called practicing and becoming familiar with the weapon.Just like the Virgina tech shooter did. He practiced before he carried out his massacre.

You clearly haven't tried it. I'm not trying to be condescending but it's really very easy. It's not a trick and really requires very little training. In fact, it's very common to see people that fast.The magazine size for semi-automatic pistols is generally determined by the size of the pistol (full size, compact, or sub compact) and the caliber of the bullet, except when limited by a state law. A 9 mm full size might hold 17 rounds while a sub-compact 45 might only hold 6. The only thing that was conceived was the smaller magazines, again due to magazine capacity laws.

I was going to type out my background again, and experience training and using guns of all these types but honestly I'm just done here. No one's mind is getting changed. I think we'll probably get a renewed law similar to the previous assault weapons "ban", but obviously that won't affect much. The gun issue is tracking with nearly every other major social issue currently, with the more liberal (in terms of individual rights) position seeming to gain more steady traction. Overall I'm okay with that as long as there is some degree of sanity applied.

I apologize again if I sounded condescending. That wasn't my intention. But, describing reloading as a specialty skill or some kind of circus trick made it seem like you weren't familiar with the process.I think it should be pretty clear to anyone with any objectivity that limiting magazine capacities to 10 or 6 won't prevent someone from carrying out another mass shooting. It's already been done with magazine capacities of 10. It's passing a law just to pass a law. One change that I agree with is closing the private sale loophole. When buying any new gun, you already have to go through a background check. It would be very easy to just require that all private sales must go through a FFL. Since private individuals don't have any easy way to do a background check, that would at least make it harder for an ineligible person to get a gun. At the very least, it would make it more expensive if they were limited to black market purchases.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

+1It wasn't stricter gun laws in nyc that reduced crime, it was changing police policy to be more proactive in catching criminals carrying guns such as stop-and-frisk.

 

[Enderdog]

He answers the door with a gun in his hand and you think this is totally normal behavior?

Depends. Somebody knocking on a door at 2pm is a lot different than somebody pounding on a door at 2am.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

+1It wasn't stricter gun laws in nyc that reduced crime, it was changing police policy to be more proactive in catching criminals carrying guns such as stop-and-frisk.

MORE GUNS MORE GUNS MORE GUNS MORE GUNS

 

[Mr Two Cents]

I'm stunned that grown men in modern day America as a matter of course answer the door with a loaded gun in their hands. Talk about delusional/paranoid. You're either paranoid, or scared, or you're delusional about how much people care about you or your stuff. It's completely nuts.

Otis you are such a drama queen, I hope your family never has to depend on you for protecting them. I am not paranoid or scared or delusional and no I don't always answer the door with a gun, BUT I always have one in reach. If I know someone is coming over I don't even have the door locked. But again I always have something within reach if needed. I fully expect that I will never shoot any of my weapons except at a range, but for you to think that home invasions, roberies, car jackings don't happen is just stupid.

Home InvasionHOME INVASIONTHE FACTSThe frightening thing about home invasion is that it is often motivated by a variety of criminal intentions. Usually the intention is robbery.It is common for invaders to suddenly pull a weapon and burglarize you on the spot after impersonating a repairman, a delivery boy, salesman, policeman or an individual in the need of Good Samaritan.In a worst case scenario the intention is rape, kidnapping, torture or terrorism. In these situations, an armed invader takes the victim by surprise simply by kicking in the door or bursting through a window. Sometimes the invasion is motivated by the desire to procure normally private information from you such as your credit card or bank account number that can later be sold or used for fraudulent purposes.A person may invade your home for the purposes of preparing you for a future robbery by assessing your belongings and the vulnerability of entry points. Exact statistics about the number of home invasions that take place every year are not available however, it is estimated that every year that this variant of robbery accounts for 11% of incidents of theft that take place in the United States.METHODSHome invaders use a variety of ruses to get you to open the door and let you into their house. The most common entry points are through the front door, or in the case of a surprise attack, through the homeowner's garage. Most invasions take place simply because the intruder knocked or rang the bell and the homeowner opened the door. The attack can either be swift or violent or the attacker may pretend to be someone who is ordinary or trusted by you. In some cases, victims may even receive a false phone call informing them that they are about to receive a delivery or a maintenance call from a repairman.Common scenarios include the following situations:* A uniformed individual tells you that they are in the area checking for a gas leak, a problem with your cable, or a problem with your telephone and request entry into your house.* A uniformed individual informs you that they have a delivery of some sort, usually flowers, telegram or a package. Be especially suspicious if you have no reason to expect a package.* An individual appears at your door, informing you that you have won a contest or special prize. In this case they may just collect your information.* The individual informs you that they are collecting for a charity or some other good cause. This sometimes provides an opportunity to snatch your purse or wallet.* A stranger claims to be in some kind of distress and asks if he or she can use your phone or your washroom.PREPARATIONIt is important to realize usually gas, telephone, electricity and cable lines are checked from outside, not inside the home. If the person claims that they are there to enter your home and you are suspicious of the person's credentials, do not open the door and phone the company for confirmation.Most delivery men will agree to leave the package outside your door. If they demand that you sign a form, you can once again call the company and confirm that you are about to be in receipt of a package.In the situations where you are being asked for charity or assistance, use your better judgement. One suspicious sign may be a large van or truck, purportedly there to carry away your valuables, parked nearby on the street.PREVENTIONOutfit your door with a peep hole or a bolt and chain and never answer a mysterious knock by blithely just swinging the door open all the way. All repairmen and delivery people carry identification cards with photos and are instructed to humor you if you request that these be shown (even through a peephole).If you are still not certain that their identification is legitimate, ask them to wait and call the company for verification. If the company denies their presence, immediately call the police. DO NOT LET THEM IN YOUR HOME UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!WHAT TO DO IF THE UNFORTUNATE OCCURSIf an individual successfully bluffs their way into your home you could find yourself at the mercy of weapons. In this scenario comply with their requests in order to prevent physical violence and bodily harm.If you realize afterwards, that you may have been the victim of a home invasion, phone the originating companies or institutions (banks, credit card companies) and inform them that you may have given a criminal your personal information.In both cases, try to give the police an accurate description of the individual and also present any documents or evidence of the intrusion that they might have left behind.

Even put it in quotes for fatboy

 

[BustedKnuckles]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

The goal should be for people not to SHOOT other people. Not to be armed in case someone DOES shoot you! lets get to the root of the problem.The root of the problem is the heart and mind of man

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Now for thew stats that Otis refuses to pay any attention to.

1 property crime every 3 seconds.

1 burglary every 3 seconds

1 violent crime every 20 seconds

1 grave assault every 35 seconds

1 robbery every minute

1 forcible rape every 2 minutes

1 out of 5 homes will experience a break in or invasion every year

8000 plus home invasions in North America EVERY DAY

3,6000,000 home invasions every year

I am glad that Otis is not responsible for my family.

Yeah more plagiarizing of statistics.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

For you Mr FATNESS

Massive Protest Greets Denver Gun ShowGee, the anti-gun nuts really do show up in force, huh? As the debate over gun control continues big crowds were met with a protester at the Tanner Gun Show at the Denver Merchandise Mart on Saturday. Ever since the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, there have been increased talks about gun control in the United States. People were filing in an out of the Tanner Gun Show proudly putting their First Amendment right to use. Some bought guns for hunting, others for protection. They were met with opposition as one lone protester picketed out front in support of a ban on so called assault weapons. “Something snapped in me and I have to say something,” the protester said. “Ban spoons, they make me fat,” a person yelled at the protester. The topic of gun control brought out a range of emotions from people driving by, some even yelling profanity at the thought of controlling their rights as an American.Not sure what’s more pathetic, the weak showing for the gun grabbers or the fact one protester is given media attention.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

I, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Too bad it doesn't mean anything to today's politicians.

 

[Apple Jack]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Obama finally can legitimately take credit for jobs his government has created, as gun and ammo sales are now through the ####### roof!

 

[5 digit know nothing]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

The goal should be for people not to SHOOT other people. Not to be armed in case someone DOES shoot you! lets get to the root of the problem.The root of the problem is the heart and mind of man

You are offering nothing to this discussion but rhetoric.

 

[Glass Joe]

Obama finally can legitimately take credit for jobs his government has created, as gun and ammo sales are now through the ####### roof!

Do you live in a city or in the country? Is where you live crime plagued?

 

[Mr Two Cents]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

This is what you idiots have brought to America.Hope your happy with your stupidity Otis.You morons are your own worst enemies.

Assault Rifles, Ammo Flying Off Shelves After Newtown MassacreNEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — Gun enthusiasts have been stocking up in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., elementary school massacre – flocking to gun shows to get their hands on parts and weapons out of fear that lawmakers will take a harder stance on gun control in the coming year.The phones at gun shops across the country have been ringing off the hook. Demand for firearms, ammunition and bulletproof gear has surged since the Dec. 14 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which took the lives of 20 schoolchildren and six teachers and administrators.The National Rifle Association proposed placing an armed guard in every school in response to the massacre.“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said earlier this month.But for others, including President Barack Obama, the shooting has sparked calls for tighter gun control measures, especially for military-style assault weapons like the ones used in Newtown and in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting earlier this year. The prospect of a possible weapons ban has sent gun enthusiasts into a panic and sparked a frenzy of buying at stores and gun dealers nationwide.Assault rifles are sold out across the country. Rounds of .223 bullets, like those used in the AR-15 type Bushmaster rifle used in Newtown, are scarce. Stores are struggling to restock their shelves. Gun and ammunition makers are telling retailers they will have to wait months to get more.Store owners who have been in the business for years say they have never seen demand like this before.When asked how much sales have increased in the past few weeks, Ryan Horsley – owner of Red’s Trading Post in Twin Falls, Idaho, just laughed.“We haven’t even had a chance to look at it,” he says. Horsley spends his days calling manufacturers around the country trying to buy more items for the store. Mainly, they tell him he has to wait.Franklin Armory, a firearm maker in Morgan Hill, Calif., is telling dealers that it will take six months to fulfill their orders. The company plans to hire more workers and buy more machines to catch up, says Franklin Armory’s President Jay Jacobson.The shortage is leaving many would-be gun owners empty handed.William Kotis went to a gun show in Winston-Salem, N.C., last weekend hoping to buy a rifle for target shooting. Almost everything was sold out.“Assault rifles were selling like crazy,” says Kotis, who is president and CEO of Kotis Holdings, a real estate development company based in Greensboro. “People are stockpiling.”He left without buying anything.Luke Orlando’s parents were able to get him the 12-gauge shotgun he wanted for Christmas to bird hunt, but his uncle wasn’t as lucky.“At Christmas dinner, my uncle expressed outrage that after waiting six months to use his Christmas bonus to purchase an AR-15, they are sold out and back ordered over a year,” says Orlando, 18, a student at the University of Texas.No organization publicly releases gun sales data. The only way to measure demand is by the number of background checks that are conducted when someone wants to buy a firearm. Those numbers are released by the Federal Reserve Bureau every month. Data for December is not out yet. But the Federal Bureau of Investigation says that it did 16.8 million firearm background checks as of the end of November, up more than 2 percent from a year ago.The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, which handles background checks for the state, can’t keep up with the number of requests it is getting. The bureau has pulled staff from other units and increased its hours, says spokesperson Susan Medina.Many firearm dealers and manufacturers say that Obama’s comments since the Newtown school shooting are driving demand.James Zimmerman of SelwayArmory.com, a website that sells guns, ammunition and knives, says that sales really took off on Dec. 19 after President Barack Obama held a White House press conference announcing that Vice President Joe Biden would lead a team tasked with coming up with “concrete proposals” to curb gun violence.That day, one customer ordered 32,000 rounds of ammunition from SelwayArmory.com, worth close to $18,000. The order had to be shipped from the company’s Lolo, Mont., office to Kentucky on a freight truck.“I’ve done more sales in the week after the 19th than I have the whole year,” said Zimmerman, who launched SelwayArmory.com in 2009.At Lady Liberty Gunsmithing LLC in Atlantic City, N.J., a customer called last week asking if a pistol he wanted was available. When he was told there was only one left, he drove more than two hours from Newark, N.J., to buy it that same day.“People want guns now even more than ever,” said Guy Petinga II, whose father opened the store above his home in 1996.Others saw demand immediately after the shooting.Bullet Blocker, which makes bulletproof vests, briefcases and insert panels, saw sales of its children’s backpacks suddenly jump.“That’s how I found out about the tragedy. I saw the sales rise and then turned on CNN,” said Elmar Uy, vice president of business operations at the Billerica, Mass., company.Bullet Blocker has sold about 50 to 100 bulletproof backpacks a day since the shooting, up from about 10 to 15 in a regular week. The children’s backpacks, which are designed to be used as shields, cost over $200 each.“I’ve never seen numbers like this before,” said Uy.

I don't even own an "assault rifle" and have no plans to buy one, but good lord YOU have encouraged the one thing you want to get rid of.This is YOUR FAULT, because you want to punish legal gun owners for the sins of criminals.I hope your are happy with what you have done because the blood will rest on your stupid ideas.You have done nothing more than arm America to the hilt and continue to do it every day, be happy, be encouraged this is YOUR doing. Good job Jack, Tim, Otis and the rest, your ignorant solutions have led to the most aggressive arming of America ever. Excellent job. Hope you are happy and feel better about yourselves. Because of YOU over 100,000 high capacity magazines have been sold since the massacre committed by a "criminal".####### idiots.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Obama finally can legitimately take credit for jobs his government has created, as gun and ammo sales are now through the ####### roof!

Do you live in a city or in the country? Is where you live crime plagued?

I live about 30 miles from Houston and live in one of the safest neighbors I know of in the area. How is this relevant?

 

[Otis]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

So insane. Get help. Seriously.

 

[Otis]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

This is what you idiots have brought to America.Hope your happy with your stupidity Otis.You morons are your own worst enemies.

Assault Rifles, Ammo Flying Off Shelves After Newtown MassacreNEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — Gun enthusiasts have been stocking up in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., elementary school massacre – flocking to gun shows to get their hands on parts and weapons out of fear that lawmakers will take a harder stance on gun control in the coming year.The phones at gun shops across the country have been ringing off the hook. Demand for firearms, ammunition and bulletproof gear has surged since the Dec. 14 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which took the lives of 20 schoolchildren and six teachers and administrators.The National Rifle Association proposed placing an armed guard in every school in response to the massacre.“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said earlier this month.But for others, including President Barack Obama, the shooting has sparked calls for tighter gun control measures, especially for military-style assault weapons like the ones used in Newtown and in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting earlier this year. The prospect of a possible weapons ban has sent gun enthusiasts into a panic and sparked a frenzy of buying at stores and gun dealers nationwide.Assault rifles are sold out across the country. Rounds of .223 bullets, like those used in the AR-15 type Bushmaster rifle used in Newtown, are scarce. Stores are struggling to restock their shelves. Gun and ammunition makers are telling retailers they will have to wait months to get more.Store owners who have been in the business for years say they have never seen demand like this before.When asked how much sales have increased in the past few weeks, Ryan Horsley – owner of Red’s Trading Post in Twin Falls, Idaho, just laughed.“We haven’t even had a chance to look at it,” he says. Horsley spends his days calling manufacturers around the country trying to buy more items for the store. Mainly, they tell him he has to wait.Franklin Armory, a firearm maker in Morgan Hill, Calif., is telling dealers that it will take six months to fulfill their orders. The company plans to hire more workers and buy more machines to catch up, says Franklin Armory’s President Jay Jacobson.The shortage is leaving many would-be gun owners empty handed.William Kotis went to a gun show in Winston-Salem, N.C., last weekend hoping to buy a rifle for target shooting. Almost everything was sold out.“Assault rifles were selling like crazy,” says Kotis, who is president and CEO of Kotis Holdings, a real estate development company based in Greensboro. “People are stockpiling.”He left without buying anything.Luke Orlando’s parents were able to get him the 12-gauge shotgun he wanted for Christmas to bird hunt, but his uncle wasn’t as lucky.“At Christmas dinner, my uncle expressed outrage that after waiting six months to use his Christmas bonus to purchase an AR-15, they are sold out and back ordered over a year,” says Orlando, 18, a student at the University of Texas.No organization publicly releases gun sales data. The only way to measure demand is by the number of background checks that are conducted when someone wants to buy a firearm. Those numbers are released by the Federal Reserve Bureau every month. Data for December is not out yet. But the Federal Bureau of Investigation says that it did 16.8 million firearm background checks as of the end of November, up more than 2 percent from a year ago.The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, which handles background checks for the state, can’t keep up with the number of requests it is getting. The bureau has pulled staff from other units and increased its hours, says spokesperson Susan Medina.Many firearm dealers and manufacturers say that Obama’s comments since the Newtown school shooting are driving demand.James Zimmerman of SelwayArmory.com, a website that sells guns, ammunition and knives, says that sales really took off on Dec. 19 after President Barack Obama held a White House press conference announcing that Vice President Joe Biden would lead a team tasked with coming up with “concrete proposals” to curb gun violence.That day, one customer ordered 32,000 rounds of ammunition from SelwayArmory.com, worth close to $18,000. The order had to be shipped from the company’s Lolo, Mont., office to Kentucky on a freight truck.“I’ve done more sales in the week after the 19th than I have the whole year,” said Zimmerman, who launched SelwayArmory.com in 2009.At Lady Liberty Gunsmithing LLC in Atlantic City, N.J., a customer called last week asking if a pistol he wanted was available. When he was told there was only one left, he drove more than two hours from Newark, N.J., to buy it that same day.“People want guns now even more than ever,” said Guy Petinga II, whose father opened the store above his home in 1996.Others saw demand immediately after the shooting.Bullet Blocker, which makes bulletproof vests, briefcases and insert panels, saw sales of its children’s backpacks suddenly jump.“That’s how I found out about the tragedy. I saw the sales rise and then turned on CNN,” said Elmar Uy, vice president of business operations at the Billerica, Mass., company.Bullet Blocker has sold about 50 to 100 bulletproof backpacks a day since the shooting, up from about 10 to 15 in a regular week. The children’s backpacks, which are designed to be used as shields, cost over $200 each.“I’ve never seen numbers like this before,” said Uy.

I don't even own an "assault rifle" and have no plans to buy one, but good lord YOU have encourages the one thing you want to get rid of.This is YOUR FAULT, because you want to punish legal gun owners for the sins of criminals.I hope your are happy with what you have done because the blood will rest on your stupid ideas.You have done nothing more than arm America to the hilt and continue to do it every day, be happy, be encouraged this is YOUR doing. Good job Jack, Tim, Otis and the rest, your ignorant solutions have led to the most aggressive arming of America ever. Excellent job. Hope you are happy and feel better about yourselves. Because of YOU over 100,000 high capacity magazines have been sold since the massacre committed by a "criminal".####### idiots.

Nobody wants to "punish" you, nerd. We just want innocent people not to get killed. I don't care about your stupid D&D hobby or whether this upsets you or not or whether you have to answer your door with a cup of coffee instead of a revolver.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

So insane. Get help. Seriously.

I am not the one that needs help.Look at what you have unleashed.

 

[Otis]

Otis you are such a drama queen, I hope your family never has to depend on you for protecting them. I am not paranoid or scared or delusional and no I don't always answer the door with a gun, BUT I always have one in reach. If I know someone is coming over I don't even have the door locked. But again I always have something within reach if needed. I fully expect that I will never shoot any of my weapons except at a range, but for you to think that home invasions, roberies, car jackings don't happen is just stupid.

Post the link to where I said that.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

This is what you idiots have brought to America.Hope your happy with your stupidity Otis.You morons are your own worst enemies.

Assault Rifles, Ammo Flying Off Shelves After Newtown MassacreNEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — Gun enthusiasts have been stocking up in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., elementary school massacre – flocking to gun shows to get their hands on parts and weapons out of fear that lawmakers will take a harder stance on gun control in the coming year.The phones at gun shops across the country have been ringing off the hook. Demand for firearms, ammunition and bulletproof gear has surged since the Dec. 14 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which took the lives of 20 schoolchildren and six teachers and administrators.The National Rifle Association proposed placing an armed guard in every school in response to the massacre.“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said earlier this month.But for others, including President Barack Obama, the shooting has sparked calls for tighter gun control measures, especially for military-style assault weapons like the ones used in Newtown and in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting earlier this year. The prospect of a possible weapons ban has sent gun enthusiasts into a panic and sparked a frenzy of buying at stores and gun dealers nationwide.Assault rifles are sold out across the country. Rounds of .223 bullets, like those used in the AR-15 type Bushmaster rifle used in Newtown, are scarce. Stores are struggling to restock their shelves. Gun and ammunition makers are telling retailers they will have to wait months to get more.Store owners who have been in the business for years say they have never seen demand like this before.When asked how much sales have increased in the past few weeks, Ryan Horsley – owner of Red’s Trading Post in Twin Falls, Idaho, just laughed.“We haven’t even had a chance to look at it,” he says. Horsley spends his days calling manufacturers around the country trying to buy more items for the store. Mainly, they tell him he has to wait.Franklin Armory, a firearm maker in Morgan Hill, Calif., is telling dealers that it will take six months to fulfill their orders. The company plans to hire more workers and buy more machines to catch up, says Franklin Armory’s President Jay Jacobson.The shortage is leaving many would-be gun owners empty handed.William Kotis went to a gun show in Winston-Salem, N.C., last weekend hoping to buy a rifle for target shooting. Almost everything was sold out.“Assault rifles were selling like crazy,” says Kotis, who is president and CEO of Kotis Holdings, a real estate development company based in Greensboro. “People are stockpiling.”He left without buying anything.Luke Orlando’s parents were able to get him the 12-gauge shotgun he wanted for Christmas to bird hunt, but his uncle wasn’t as lucky.“At Christmas dinner, my uncle expressed outrage that after waiting six months to use his Christmas bonus to purchase an AR-15, they are sold out and back ordered over a year,” says Orlando, 18, a student at the University of Texas.No organization publicly releases gun sales data. The only way to measure demand is by the number of background checks that are conducted when someone wants to buy a firearm. Those numbers are released by the Federal Reserve Bureau every month. Data for December is not out yet. But the Federal Bureau of Investigation says that it did 16.8 million firearm background checks as of the end of November, up more than 2 percent from a year ago.The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, which handles background checks for the state, can’t keep up with the number of requests it is getting. The bureau has pulled staff from other units and increased its hours, says spokesperson Susan Medina.Many firearm dealers and manufacturers say that Obama’s comments since the Newtown school shooting are driving demand.James Zimmerman of SelwayArmory.com, a website that sells guns, ammunition and knives, says that sales really took off on Dec. 19 after President Barack Obama held a White House press conference announcing that Vice President Joe Biden would lead a team tasked with coming up with “concrete proposals” to curb gun violence.That day, one customer ordered 32,000 rounds of ammunition from SelwayArmory.com, worth close to $18,000. The order had to be shipped from the company’s Lolo, Mont., office to Kentucky on a freight truck.“I’ve done more sales in the week after the 19th than I have the whole year,” said Zimmerman, who launched SelwayArmory.com in 2009.At Lady Liberty Gunsmithing LLC in Atlantic City, N.J., a customer called last week asking if a pistol he wanted was available. When he was told there was only one left, he drove more than two hours from Newark, N.J., to buy it that same day.“People want guns now even more than ever,” said Guy Petinga II, whose father opened the store above his home in 1996.Others saw demand immediately after the shooting.Bullet Blocker, which makes bulletproof vests, briefcases and insert panels, saw sales of its children’s backpacks suddenly jump.“That’s how I found out about the tragedy. I saw the sales rise and then turned on CNN,” said Elmar Uy, vice president of business operations at the Billerica, Mass., company.Bullet Blocker has sold about 50 to 100 bulletproof backpacks a day since the shooting, up from about 10 to 15 in a regular week. The children’s backpacks, which are designed to be used as shields, cost over $200 each.“I’ve never seen numbers like this before,” said Uy.

I don't even own an "assault rifle" and have no plans to buy one, but good lord YOU have encourages the one thing you want to get rid of.This is YOUR FAULT, because you want to punish legal gun owners for the sins of criminals.I hope your are happy with what you have done because the blood will rest on your stupid ideas.You have done nothing more than arm America to the hilt and continue to do it every day, be happy, be encouraged this is YOUR doing. Good job Jack, Tim, Otis and the rest, your ignorant solutions have led to the most aggressive arming of America ever. Excellent job. Hope you are happy and feel better about yourselves. Because of YOU over 100,000 high capacity magazines have been sold since the massacre committed by a "criminal".####### idiots.

Nobody wants to "punish" you, nerd. We just want innocent people not to get killed. I don't care about your stupid D&D hobby or whether this upsets you or not or whether you have to answer your door with a cup of coffee instead of a revolver.

Is "nerd" supposed to annoy me?Can I call you and "elitist", does that hurt?You do realize that you are talking about over half the country, millions and millions and millions of people. You are the problem here much more than I am. God you are so wrong and ignorant in your assumptions.Hell after another beer I may just go off and shoot another few rounds into the air for the hell of it.YEEHAH.You moron.

 

[Otis]

I have no problem with you calling me an elitist.

 

[Slingblade]

I have no problem with you calling me an elitist.

See, they even embrace it. I guess whatever makes them feel smarter/superior.I guarantee you my IQ and intelligence are way above yours.

 

[Chaos Commish]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

So insane.

Get help. Seriously.

Trying to stay out of this, which for me makes it more amusing, but seriously, I hope Mr. 0cents is an alias in full shtick mode.If not. Dude. You Funny.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Texas gun shows everyone one of which will sell AR15's and extended magazines and "assault weapons" by the hundreds.

Go ahead click on the link, I dare you. My link

These are the "nerds" you are arming Tim, Otis when you look at the Texas gun shows, click on another state, you may as well see what all America is up to.

Stupid is as stupid does and you have done us all proud.

And this is not all of them, the one this weekend is not even listed.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I have no problem with you calling me an elitist.

See, they even embrace it. I guess whatever makes them feel smarter/superior.I guarantee you my IQ and intelligence are way above yours.

I want to be an elitist when I grow up, but today I played army with lots of live ammo out in the desert and finished a 3 gun course ahead of several active duty Marines and one Orange County swat dude. Tactical!!

 

[BustedKnuckles]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

The goal should be for people not to SHOOT other people. Not to be armed in case someone DOES shoot you! lets get to the root of the problem.The root of the problem is the heart and mind of man

You are offering nothing to this discussion but rhetoric.

"We should arm everyone." - Someone with no solution. "We should ban all guns." -Someone with no solution.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

The goal should be for people not to SHOOT other people. Not to be armed in case someone DOES shoot you! lets get to the root of the problem.The root of the problem is the heart and mind of man

You are offering nothing to this discussion but rhetoric.

"We should arm everyone." - Someone with no solution. "We should ban all guns." -Someone with no solution.

CCW statistics disagree with your ignorance

 

[BustedKnuckles]

At the end of the day, people are trying to make more laws for the law abiding citizens. They aren't the problem. The problem are the criminals and non-law abiding people. Every one of these tragic incidents has the perpetrator already breaking a number of laws which already exist. Adding more to the pile and thinking that they will help is folly as it will just create even more easy targets. The only way to stop a person breaking laws already and using a gun or any other weapon is via another person with a weapon used in self defense. Words or laws ain't going to stop anyone who wants to use modern weaponry to injury/kill others. Likewise a populace disarmed will lead to criminal and government tyranny as can be seen from past and current history...

The goal should be for people not to SHOOT other people. Not to be armed in case someone DOES shoot you! lets get to the root of the problem.The root of the problem is the heart and mind of man

You are offering nothing to this discussion but rhetoric.

"We should arm everyone." - Someone with no solution. "We should ban all guns." -Someone with no solution.

CCW statistics disagree with your ignorance

arent we all just a tad ignorant when it comes to this issue

 

[5 digit know nothing]

The Truth About "The Florida Model" The following information concerning carrying concealed firearms (CCW) statistics may be of interest to listeners of "Tom Gresham's Gun Talk." These facts debunk the distortions and outright lies fostered by the gun-grabbers. It should be noted, that almost without exception, the media is equally as guilty in disseminating these distortions and falsehoods. These figures are compiled from the FBI's annual report on crime (Uniform Crime Reports), and from other law enforcement agencies."Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense". (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992)The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per 100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per 100,000).The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states (455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per 100,000).Using FBI data (1992), homicide trends in the 17 states with less restrictive CCW laws compare favorably against national trends, and almost all CCW permittees are law-abiding.Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 - 2/28/94 (over 6 years) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used).Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.By contrast, there are about 579,000 violent crimes committed annually with firearms of all types. Seventy percent of violent crimes are committed by 7% of criminals, including repeat offenders, many of whom the courts place on probation after conviction, and felons that are paroled before serving their full time behind bars.Two-thirds of self-protective firearms uses are with handguns.99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for self-protection.Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were armed.Other Concealed Carry FactsWith adoption of CCW by Louisiana in 1996, 30 states have CCW laws requiring the issuance of permits to carry concealed firearms for self-defense to citizens who meet fair and reasonable state standards. Vermont, which ranks near the bottom in violent crime rates year-in and year-out, allows firearms to be carried concealed without a permit.In recent years NRA successfully fought for the adoption of favorable CCW laws now on the books in Florida (1987), Idaho (1990, amended 1991), Mississippi (1990), Montana (1991), and Oregon (1990). In recent legislative sessions, proposals for similar CCW laws have progressed in Alaska, Colorado, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas.Anti-gun forces oppose CCW with a variety of arguments, ranging from deliberate misrepresentations of commonly available crime data to "studies" pretending to show that private ownership of firearms leads to death and injury rather than providing protection to the owner.1. Firearms ownership opponents claim that "violent crime" went up in Florida since that state enacted CCW legislation in 1987, a misleading statement for multiple reasons:Florida's homicide rate has declined 21% since adopting CCW in 1987.No comparison of aggravated assault, robbery, and rape (99.3% of Florida violent crimes) beginning before 1988 is valid, according to the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement. In 1988, Florida changed its method of compiling crime statistics.In Florida, as in the U.S., more than 70% of violent crimes do not involve guns. Violent crime rates, therefore, don't necessarily reflect violent gun-related crime trends. According to the most recent FBI Uniform Crime Reports (1992), nationwide firearms were used in the four violent crimes that make up the total "Violent Crime" category, as follows: Aggravated Assault (58% of volent crimes) -- firearms used in 25%; Robberies (35% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 41%; Rapes (6% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5% - 10% (survey data); and Homicides (1% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 68%.In Florida: Aggravated Assaults (64% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 25%; Robberies (30% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 37%; Rapes (4% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5% - 10% (survey data); and Homicides (0.7% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 61%.2. Anti-gunners cite "studies" they claim show that firearms kept at home are "43 times more likely" to be used to kill family members than be used for self- defense. (Other "studies" claim different ratios.) The 43:1 claim, based upon a small-scale study of King County (Seattle) and Shelby County (Memphis), is a fraud, because it counts as self-defense gun uses only those cases in which a criminals were killed in the defender's home. Approximately 99.9% of all defensive gun uses are not fatal shootings, however -- criminals are usually frightened off, held at bay, or non-fatally wounded. Also, many defensive firearms uses occur away from home. Further, suicides were counted as "family member killings" in the "study,"elevating that number more than 500%. Unfortunately, some of these "studies" are funded with taxpayer dollars, through grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a division of the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.Since adopting CCW in 1987 Florida's homicide rate has decreased 21% while the U.S. Rate has risen 12%. Area 1987 1992 %Change Florida 11.4 9.0 -21% U.S.A. 8.3 9.2 +12% Nationwide, homicide rates peaked in 1980 - 1981. After fluctuating, but dropping overall thereafter, both the U.S. and Florida homicide rates began to rise in 1986. Florida adopted CCW in 1987, and its homicide rate began to decline, dropping 21% 1987 - 1992. The U.S. rate continued its upward trend, rising 12% in the 1987 - 1992 period. (Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports)Florida Concealed Carry Licensees Do Not Commit CrimesPop. - 13,277,000 Floridians Who Own Guns (Percent) All -- 62.7% Male -- 68.8% Female -- 57.3% Floridians Who Own Guns (Number): 8,325,000 Permits issued: 204,108 Permits Revoked Due To Crime: 17 (0.008%)The latest report from the Florida Department of State, covering a 6-year, 4-month period from 10/01/87 (start-up date) through 02/28/94, shows that 204,108 CCW permits have been issued -- 69% new permits; 31% permit renewals. Only one-quarter of 1% of permit applications have been rejected due to an applicant's criminal history; two-tenths of 1% have been rejected due to an "incomplete application." One hundred eighty-seven (0.1%) permits have been revoked because the permittee committed some kind of crime, though not necessarily a gun-related or violent crime, after permit issuance. After receiving permits, only 17 (0.008%) individuals committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which firearms were present, though not necessarily used. By contrast, in 1992 there were about 46,000 gun-related violent crimes (assaults, robberies, homicides and rapes) in Florida, based upon FBI Uniform Crime Reports supplementary reports and reported crime totals.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

In case you missed it:

Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Texas gun shows everyone one of which will sell AR15's and extended magazines and "assault weapons" by the hundreds.

Go ahead click on the link, I dare you. My link

These are the "nerds" you are arming Tim, Otis when you look at the Texas gun shows, click on another state, you may as well see what all America is up to.

Stupid is as stupid does and you have done us all proud.

And this is not all of them, the one this weekend is not even listed.

Do you have links for the baseball card shows in Kansas this weekend as well?

 

[cobalt_27]

I have no problem with you calling me an elitist.

See, they even embrace it. I guess whatever makes them feel smarter/superior.I guarantee you my IQ and intelligence are way above yours.

Internet IQ tests are highly inflated, bud. If you were smarter, you would know this by now.But, please, I'm curious. How high do you think your IQ is?

 

[timschochet]

These are the "nerds" you are arming Tim, Otis when you look at the Texas gun shows, click on another state, you may as well see what all America is up to.

Otis and I aren't the ones buying the guns. Those are paranoid idiots whom you seem to be fond of. The morons are all on your side, sir.

 

[Chaos Commish]

In case you missed it:Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

No, not even close. Kleck's extrapolations were bogus.

 

[Glass Joe]

Obama finally can legitimately take credit for jobs his government has created, as gun and ammo sales are now through the ####### roof!

Do you live in a city or in the country? Is where you live crime plagued?

I live about 30 miles from Houston and live in one of the safest neighbors I know of in the area. How is this relevant?

My question is - why do you feel like you have an imminent need to protect yourself if you live in a safe neighborhood? I don't have guns and don't feel like I'm just about to be attacked. I'm just trying to understand what left you so on edge...

 

[Henry Ford]

I have no problem with you calling me an elitist.

See, they even embrace it. I guess whatever makes them feel smarter/superior.I guarantee you my IQ and intelligence are way above yours.

Wow.

 

[Henry Ford]

1 in 5 homes will experience what this year?

So, on average, every home in America is burglarized or invaded approximately every five years. You'd be crazy not to answer the door with a gun.

 

[boots11234]

Not that it matters to you gun grabbers but I saw on another site that the weapon found in the trunk of his car may not have been a ar15. there is live video of the officer clearing the weapon found in the trunk and it looked like a semi auto shotgun not an ar. in the video the cop is obviously cycling a bolt to clear the weapon, an AR uses a charging handle. It also has a dragunov style stock on it.

So if this is true do we ban semi auto shotguns?

 

[Henry Ford]

Not that it matters to you gun grabbers but I saw on another site that the weapon found in the trunk of his car may not have been a ar15. there is live video of the officer clearing the weapon found in the trunk and it looked like a semi auto shotgun not an ar. in the video the cop is obviously cycling a bolt to clear the weapon, an AR uses a charging handle. It also has a dragunov style stock on it. So if this is true do we ban semi auto shotguns?

When you go back to this website, ask one very simple, logical question:If the gun he used to kill people with was in his trunk, how did it fire so many bullets into people who were not in his trunk at the time?

 

[boots11234]

Not that it matters to you gun grabbers but I saw on another site that the weapon found in the trunk of his car may not have been a ar15. there is live video of the officer clearing the weapon found in the trunk and it looked like a semi auto shotgun not an ar. in the video the cop is obviously cycling a bolt to clear the weapon, an AR uses a charging handle. It also has a dragunov style stock on it. So if this is true do we ban semi auto shotguns?

When you go back to this website, ask one very simple, logical question:If the gun he used to kill people with was in his trunk, how did it fire so many bullets into people who were not in his trunk at the time?

My understanding was two handguns. The rifle/weapon was in his trunk. Is this incorrect?

 

[jafo]

Not surprised to see this thread has turned into name calling. There are some serious internet tough guys in this house.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Not surprised to see this thread has turned into name calling. There are some serious internet tough guys in this house.

Concur. Was waiting for the first "poo-face" to fly. Schtick and flame wars, but hey, it's the FFA after all.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The Newtown children were shot with .223.