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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter joey
- Start date
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
gruden sucks has for years
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
kaso
Footballguy
Taking a step back from the pure disappointment of this season, I think the reaction in the media and from the fan base is drawn from the vast gap between the expectations and the reality of the current situation. Nobody thought the team would be 1-7 after half the season, so it is easy for everybody to pile onto the situation.
I still believe Gruden was the right hire to get this team turned around long term. The run of coaches we had between his two stints were nothing special. None of them have gone onto anything great. Del Rio didn't land a coordinator job or a talking head job. Art Shell is where? Callahan? We know where Hugh is right now...
I still believe handing out a ten year contract was the right move. If for nothing else to show a level of commitment to this next phase. Having consistency at the HC position and offense is very important in the current state of the NFL. Turnover leads to mediocre success at best.
Sure the Raiders made the playoffs in 2016 under Del Rio. But how many of those games did they get the lucky bounce, benefit of a great/bad call, or just have things work in their way. They weren't beating teams in the fashion that the Patriots have long term or in the fashion the Rams are this year. So lets not use 2016 team record as the measurement of what this team was. Because it simply wasn't sustainable.
Right now the Raiders are a team learning a new system. They haven't got any luck in the injury department. The WRs (even with Cooper) simply aren't fast enough to get open and to the spots they need to against the limited amount of time that Carr has behind that Oline. They have had turn over in key positions (Mack, Cooper, Lynch). They brought in a wide range of options at CB, and none of the players have grabbed the opportunity they were given. The back end of the secondary is missing the required safety that Guenther needs in his system, sure Nelson "knows" the system - but he isn't the player he once was. Age has caught up with him.
Maybe I'm in the minority. But I'd rather have the Raiders cut players who don't want to be there. Or trade players who aren't in the long term realistic plan, and get something in return for their investment. I'd rather the Raiders be the team making the moves they have then being on the opposite side of those deals and contracts where the addition of a player or two isn't going to drive a positive dividend with the current state of the team. Richard Sherman anyone?
Gruden wasn't given a 10 year contract to win now. It's just that nobody expected it to start this poorly. And I'm ready for this season to be over.
I still believe Gruden was the right hire to get this team turned around long term. The run of coaches we had between his two stints were nothing special. None of them have gone onto anything great. Del Rio didn't land a coordinator job or a talking head job. Art Shell is where? Callahan? We know where Hugh is right now...
I still believe handing out a ten year contract was the right move. If for nothing else to show a level of commitment to this next phase. Having consistency at the HC position and offense is very important in the current state of the NFL. Turnover leads to mediocre success at best.
Sure the Raiders made the playoffs in 2016 under Del Rio. But how many of those games did they get the lucky bounce, benefit of a great/bad call, or just have things work in their way. They weren't beating teams in the fashion that the Patriots have long term or in the fashion the Rams are this year. So lets not use 2016 team record as the measurement of what this team was. Because it simply wasn't sustainable.
Right now the Raiders are a team learning a new system. They haven't got any luck in the injury department. The WRs (even with Cooper) simply aren't fast enough to get open and to the spots they need to against the limited amount of time that Carr has behind that Oline. They have had turn over in key positions (Mack, Cooper, Lynch). They brought in a wide range of options at CB, and none of the players have grabbed the opportunity they were given. The back end of the secondary is missing the required safety that Guenther needs in his system, sure Nelson "knows" the system - but he isn't the player he once was. Age has caught up with him.
Maybe I'm in the minority. But I'd rather have the Raiders cut players who don't want to be there. Or trade players who aren't in the long term realistic plan, and get something in return for their investment. I'd rather the Raiders be the team making the moves they have then being on the opposite side of those deals and contracts where the addition of a player or two isn't going to drive a positive dividend with the current state of the team. Richard Sherman anyone?
Gruden wasn't given a 10 year contract to win now. It's just that nobody expected it to start this poorly. And I'm ready for this season to be over.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
That was the beginning of the end for the Gruden Raiders. The beginning of the end of the Raiders was Gruden part 2.
I know fans want us all to be patient for this rebuild but it is difficult to have faith in Gruden based on his moves so far. You don't get rid of your best young players during a rebuild just because they aren't your guys. And, you get rid of the old guys, not bring in more of them. The Raiders don't get back on the winning track until Gruden is gone.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I'm with Kaso. It sucks as an East Bay native that they're tanking the last two years in Oakland, but seeing how bad this team is right now shows that was never a championship team. Playoffs...maaaaaybe? Mack is worth maybe 2 wins?
2016 was a mirage. We won so many 1 score games that I was not surprised by 2017. I had hope for 2018, but again wasn't holding my breath.
The salary cap is starting to impact the NFL like it impacts the NBA. You have certain windows and ceilings based on the talent and their contracts. You either want to be a contender or tanking...being in the middle is no man's land.
An NBA All-Star on a rookie deal is gold. The NFL equivalent is an All-Pro QB on a rookie deal. If you have that player, you have the best window possible as you can spend money to beef up the roster.
Once that rookie deal expires and you pay your QB/All-Star player the franchise's ceiling is based on how good that player actually is. Drafting well has more importance because the the roster needs cheap productive players.
Right now the Raiders are taking the sensible step and tanking. Yah we traded Mack, but trades like that happen in the NBA all the time. Kevin Garnett couldn't win in Minnesota so they traded him and blew it up. Prior to The Process the 76ers had an Igoudala led playoff team, but declined to resign him because they correctly assessed the team had reached it's ceiling as 2nd rounder team at best. Looking what's happening Mack alone couldn't get this team to the playoffs.
Now it's time to see if Carr is worth building around. I don't think so and all those draft picks can help us find a QB that we can. Even if Gruden thinks Carr is still the franchise then all the high draft picks can help add real talent to this team.
This season is a lost season for sure, but it's the correct direction to take.
2016 was a mirage. We won so many 1 score games that I was not surprised by 2017. I had hope for 2018, but again wasn't holding my breath.
The salary cap is starting to impact the NFL like it impacts the NBA. You have certain windows and ceilings based on the talent and their contracts. You either want to be a contender or tanking...being in the middle is no man's land.
An NBA All-Star on a rookie deal is gold. The NFL equivalent is an All-Pro QB on a rookie deal. If you have that player, you have the best window possible as you can spend money to beef up the roster.
Once that rookie deal expires and you pay your QB/All-Star player the franchise's ceiling is based on how good that player actually is. Drafting well has more importance because the the roster needs cheap productive players.
Right now the Raiders are taking the sensible step and tanking. Yah we traded Mack, but trades like that happen in the NBA all the time. Kevin Garnett couldn't win in Minnesota so they traded him and blew it up. Prior to The Process the 76ers had an Igoudala led playoff team, but declined to resign him because they correctly assessed the team had reached it's ceiling as 2nd rounder team at best. Looking what's happening Mack alone couldn't get this team to the playoffs.
Now it's time to see if Carr is worth building around. I don't think so and all those draft picks can help us find a QB that we can. Even if Gruden thinks Carr is still the franchise then all the high draft picks can help add real talent to this team.
This season is a lost season for sure, but it's the correct direction to take.
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![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The Raiders cannot afford to fire Gruden after 3 years. We have to hope that Gruden's ego saves us and he retires after 5 years of failure.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
Disappointed to hear people on here saying to tank the season and disappointed even more with the thought the team might be tanking.
Going into the way-back machine to 1976. The Raiders hosting the Bengals in Week 13 in a critical Monday night matchup--for the Bengals. If they win, they're in the playoffs. The Raiders are already sitting pretty at 11-1, having clinched homefield advantage for the playoffs. But the Raiders have some possible incentive--to lose. A Bengal win and the two-time defending Super Bowl champ Steelers are out of the playoffs. A Raider win puts the Steelers in.
Cue Howard, Frank and Dandy Don:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK7iYsk8ATo
Anyway, the Raiders soundly beat the Bengals, 35-20 behind 4 Stabler TDs (miss you, Snake), throttled the Steelers a couple weeks later in the AFC Championship and won their first Super Bowl a few weeks after that.
So, tanking is anathema to me.
Now fast forward about 10 years and the best defense IMO to ever put on the pads--the 1985 Chicago Bears. Here was Bears defensive coordinator Buddy Ryan's theory on defending the pass:
"To stop a passing game, you can't stop it unless you put pressure on. Now some people are good enough to put it on with a three-man rush but we're not. In fact, I don't know if we're good enough to put it on with a four-man rush. If we have to send eight, we'll send eight but we're not going to let you sit back there and pick us apart."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLH2JcCkS1w
The Raiders need to build their own version of the 1985 Bears defense. I hope the Raiders believe Carr is their guy because they can't be affording to blow a high pick on a QB. With the five 1s they've got the next two years, they need to find themselves the next decade's Richard Dent, Dan Hampton, Wilber Marshall, Otis Wilson and Dave Duerson because I'm sick of seeing QBs "sit back there and pick us apart."
To quote the late, great Al Davis, "The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard."
Joe Ferguson, meet Wilber Marshall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po0DKZBS7DI
Going into the way-back machine to 1976. The Raiders hosting the Bengals in Week 13 in a critical Monday night matchup--for the Bengals. If they win, they're in the playoffs. The Raiders are already sitting pretty at 11-1, having clinched homefield advantage for the playoffs. But the Raiders have some possible incentive--to lose. A Bengal win and the two-time defending Super Bowl champ Steelers are out of the playoffs. A Raider win puts the Steelers in.
Cue Howard, Frank and Dandy Don:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK7iYsk8ATo
Anyway, the Raiders soundly beat the Bengals, 35-20 behind 4 Stabler TDs (miss you, Snake), throttled the Steelers a couple weeks later in the AFC Championship and won their first Super Bowl a few weeks after that.
So, tanking is anathema to me.
Now fast forward about 10 years and the best defense IMO to ever put on the pads--the 1985 Chicago Bears. Here was Bears defensive coordinator Buddy Ryan's theory on defending the pass:
"To stop a passing game, you can't stop it unless you put pressure on. Now some people are good enough to put it on with a three-man rush but we're not. In fact, I don't know if we're good enough to put it on with a four-man rush. If we have to send eight, we'll send eight but we're not going to let you sit back there and pick us apart."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLH2JcCkS1w
The Raiders need to build their own version of the 1985 Bears defense. I hope the Raiders believe Carr is their guy because they can't be affording to blow a high pick on a QB. With the five 1s they've got the next two years, they need to find themselves the next decade's Richard Dent, Dan Hampton, Wilber Marshall, Otis Wilson and Dave Duerson because I'm sick of seeing QBs "sit back there and pick us apart."
To quote the late, great Al Davis, "The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard."
Joe Ferguson, meet Wilber Marshall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po0DKZBS7DI
DocHolliday
Footballguy
1976 was a long time ago. Trading Mack away was a short time ago. That was the worst start to a rebuild in the history of rebuilds.
Lets just live in the past because the present and near future is going to a nightmare.
Lets just live in the past because the present and near future is going to a nightmare.
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32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Adrift in Oakland: A Season of Distrust and Uncertainty Is Sinking the Raiders
OAKLAND, Calif. — Initially, there's the expected misery.
The distinct feeling that you've plummeted into football hell.
From the Oakland Raiders sideline, the most audible sounds come from grown men in face paint, shoulder pads, spikes and scowls as they boo the team that's abandoning them for Las Vegas. One rogue drunk chants a sarcastic "Let's Go Vegas!" with a clap-clap-clap clap clap from the first row, and nobody seems to care. Once this soul-sucking 42-28 loss to the Colts is complete, players and coaches all lumber through the carcass of a tunnel with the same zombie gait.
The Raiders will relocate to Las Vegas in 2020, but four more games in this stadium this season feel like four too many.
Then, the boss appears. The one who's reportedly making $100 million over the next 10 years should absorb the most vitriol. Surely, that pack of silver and black that awaits Jon Gruden above the tunnel will spray him with beer and curse words. Red in the face, eyes down, limping more than strutting, Gruden inches closer...and closer...and...
"Chuck-ee! Chuck-ee!"
"Chuck-ee! Chuck-ee!"
No TV cameras are around. Only 50 or so rabid fans nudge ahead of one another for a better view of their hero. You'd think the Raiders had just smashed the Colts—not the other way around.
Gruden slows down, looks up, nods.
"We'll be back."
Four days later, Gruden's team proceeds to lie down and die on national television against the 1-7 49ers. A franchise that's perpetually buying real estate at rock bottom has found a way to sink even deeper. Oakland is 1-7 and losing to quarterbacks you've never heard of.
That's because to bring the Raiders back, Gruden believes he must dismantle the team he inherited. And he's been granted unprecedented time, patience and power by owner Mark Davis to do so. Forget rebuilding—this is a demolition. More Armageddon than Fixer Upper.
Gruden talked to his team about fighting for a championship all summer, only to trade away a Hall of Fame talent just over one week before the 2018 season began. The shock of the Khalil Mack deal infiltrated his team's bloodstream like a virus, a virus that's only continued to spread and left everyone with the distinct fear that no job is safe here.
Gruden is grinding along—without a coherent plan.
Jordy Nelson, washed up, at $13 million guaranteed? Why not. Martavis Bryant for a third-round draft pick? Sure. Trade for Christian Hackenberg? Done. A.J. McCarron wasn't good enough to beat out Nathan Peterman, you say? Bring him aboard for a fifth. Hello, Derrick Johnson. Goodbye, Derrick Johnson. So long, Amari Cooper. Rashaan Melvin and Reggie Nelson, starters for at least five weeks each, are suddenly healthy scratches. And never mind that pesky pass-rush issue...there's no spot for Bruce Irvin on this team anymore.
Maybe there's a method to the madness, and Gruden will hoist a Lombardi Trophy again. But halfway through his not-so-triumphant return to coaching, Gruden has burned his team into a pile of rubble.
Sift through the remains and there are some players who are trying to believe, but there's no doubt about it: The destruction is taking a toll.
One Raiders vet looks around an empty locker room and shakes his head.
"They're trying to find a reason," he says, "to get anybody out of here."
Two years ago, the inside of the Raiders locker room was electric. The fourth-quarter comebacks were constant, Derek Carr was an MVP front-runner and Super Bowl dreams were real. Players spoke at length about knowing, with a certainty, they'd find a way to win when they trailed by double digits.
There was fun, laughter, magic in the air.
Now? Step into the Raiders locker room and you'll think you've stumbled into a funeral. Voices are slightly above a whisper. Only 11 players from that 12-4 team remain.
In this tumultuous week of the Gruden era 2.0, anonymous players have ripped Carr for (allegedly) crying, and rumors are swirling that Gruden's about to trade as many guys as he can before the deadline. Most players are nowhere to be seen during media availability. For one prolonged stretch on a Thursday, only five practice-squad players pass through. Irvin, a man who's lived it all and was especially stunned (Warning: NSFW) at the Mack deal, refuses to lift his face out of his phone on a Friday.
Maybe it's because he can sense what's next for him, which is 24 snaps against the Colts, nine against the 49ers, and then a pink slip.
Inside his locker, cornerback Daryl Worley picks his beard with a comb. Whenever everything's brand new, he begins, you're starting at "Ground 1." Still, L after L after L in the present stings because players don't care about two, three, four years from now. They want to win. Now.
"We know it's a building process, but no one likes losing," Worley says. "You don't get into this game to lose—that's never our intention. ... It's definitely tough. You really play the game to win. It's hard when you have so many moving pieces, and you don't really have that concrete system yet. You have to look forward while also taking it day to day."
Tight end Lee Smith is a tad more blunt. He says motivation better not be a problem for anybody in the Raiders locker room when millions of everyday folks would jump into their shoes. Whatever long-term plan Gruden's devising, Smith believes, should have zero effect on players' effort level because, "It's our job as veterans to just do our damn jobs."
An admirable mentality, to be sure, but Smith is also in his eighth season. Veterans like him don't have time to wait around for whatever Vegas renaissance is dancing in Gruden's head. This could tick veterans off. Veterans want to win now.
"Absolutely. You work your butt off to win now. None of these guys are bench-pressing or squatting and running in February and March [to]...," says Smith, cutting himself short. "At the same time, we still have a job to do."
After he took over, Gruden turned the Raiders into the NFL's oldest team at an average age of 27.4 years. He basically envisioned a contender, suddenly did not, traded Mack and trapped everyone in a black hole of confusion. Take Melvin. The 29-year-old corner signed a one-year, $5.5 million deal with the Raiders, started five games, struggled and ripped coaches on Twitter. To which Gruden said in a press conference: "Melvin is on his seventh team. Maybe he is confused about what technique he is using."
The next time the Raiders played, there was Melvin. Benched. With a No. 22 chain around his neck, hands clasped behind his back, Melvin slowly paced the sideline for three hours. The next week, he was benched again. Melvin wants to play physical man-to-man coverage, wants to get into the face of receivers and insists he's played the same way his entire career.
Which is not, you know, what Gruden said.
"Very frustrating," Melvin says. "Very challenging. A lot of uncertainty. A lot of times, going out there and being uncomfortable.
"He's the head coach. This is his organization. This is his team. You take what he said and move on."
Blind hope still resides in this Raiders locker room. There's running back Jalen Richard, promising that wins come in bunches and the Raiders simply need a play or two each game to flip the result. There's returner Dwayne Harris, saying that when this schedule came out, players took a gander and expected to contend. Even at 1-5, Harris maintained they possessed the talent to win 10 straight. There are Pro Bowlers here. Playoff experience. That may be, but the problem is many of those veteran signings have backfired on Gruden, and he hasn't shown much of a willingness to develop young players.
Take Cooper, whose trade to Dallas hurt the coach's credibility in certain corners of the locker room.
Multiple players say Gruden told the team that Cooper would not be traded. The next thing they knew, Cooper was pulled off the practice field and shipped off to the Cowboys. Players found out about the deal on their phones after practice, as Gruden chatted with ESPN about the trade before he talked to his own team. True, he has since tried to clear the air, and the deal has come to be universally praised. Getting a first-round pick was Sam Hinkie-level processing and downright robbery compared to later picks dealt for Golden Tate and Demaryius Thomas. But Gruden still essentially lied to his players.
A disconnect was painfully obvious. And that was the danger in hiring Gruden: how he'd relate to the modern-day player after a decade in a broadcast booth.
Not to mention the fact that he gave up on a 24-year-old loaded with talent.
"All the guys that leave here, man, it shocks me to see," wide receiver Seth Roberts said. "But you know, that's how the league is. I think Amari...I know Amari's going to go there and blow it up."
Five seconds later, Roberts insists he's sold on Gruden's vision.
Because, oddly enough, it's also a fact that many players genuinely love playing for Gruden. Worley says the coach remains passionate and uplifting no matter what's going on and that players "feed off it." Defensive end Fadol Brown appreciates that Gruden doesn't care how you got here, adding that he's building a team that's "physical, smart, relentless." Richard calls his coach a "turnt-up individual" who listens to his players and implements their input to his coaching.
Richard then cautions that while Gruden's door is open to players, they better prepare themselves.
Gruden and his assistant head coach, Rich Bisaccia, never pull punches.
"He's going to shoot the s--t with you," Richard says. "You've got to have thick skin. These dudes are going to talk s--t to you. Like, 'You f--king suck.' OK, not 'f--king suck.' But they're going to f--k with you, like 'What the f--k are you doing on this video?!' They're going to be blunt guys. So you have to have thick skin and shoot the s--t back. I like that s--t."
Blind hope still resides in this Raiders locker room. There's running back Jalen Richard, promising that wins come in bunches and the Raiders simply need a play or two each game to flip the result. There's returner Dwayne Harris, saying that when this schedule came out, players took a gander and expected to contend. Even at 1-5, Harris maintained they possessed the talent to win 10 straight. There are Pro Bowlers here. Playoff experience. That may be, but the problem is many of those veteran signings have backfired on Gruden, and he hasn't shown much of a willingness to develop young players.
Take Cooper, whose trade to Dallas hurt the coach's credibility in certain corners of the locker room.
Multiple players say Gruden told the team that Cooper would not be traded. The next thing they knew, Cooper was pulled off the practice field and shipped off to the Cowboys. Players found out about the deal on their phones after practice, as Gruden chatted with ESPN about the trade before he talked to his own team. True, he has since tried to clear the air, and the deal has come to be universally praised. Getting a first-round pick was Sam Hinkie-level processing and downright robbery compared to later picks dealt for Golden Tate and Demaryius Thomas. But Gruden still essentially lied to his players.
A disconnect was painfully obvious. And that was the danger in hiring Gruden: how he'd relate to the modern-day player after a decade in a broadcast booth.
Not to mention the fact that he gave up on a 24-year-old loaded with talent.
"All the guys that leave here, man, it shocks me to see," wide receiver Seth Roberts said. "But you know, that's how the league is. I think Amari...I know Amari's going to go there and blow it up."
Five seconds later, Roberts insists he's sold on Gruden's vision.
Because, oddly enough, it's also a fact that many players genuinely love playing for Gruden. Worley says the coach remains passionate and uplifting no matter what's going on and that players "feed off it." Defensive end Fadol Brown appreciates that Gruden doesn't care how you got here, adding that he's building a team that's "physical, smart, relentless." Richard calls his coach a "turnt-up individual" who listens to his players and implements their input to his coaching.
Richard then cautions that while Gruden's door is open to players, they better prepare themselves.
Gruden and his assistant head coach, Rich Bisaccia, never pull punches.
"He's going to shoot the s--t with you," Richard says. "You've got to have thick skin. These dudes are going to talk s--t to you. Like, 'You f--king suck.' OK, not 'f--king suck.' But they're going to f--k with you, like 'What the f--k are you doing on this video?!' They're going to be blunt guys. So you have to have thick skin and shoot the s--t back. I like that s--t."
There's Migos blaring in the Raiders locker room on a Friday, and it's not by accident. The music's so loud, and the bass so explosive, it vibrates all the way outside, where Gruden holds a press conference. Richard could sense the need for a jolt of energy this week, so he figured he'd get players on their feet.
Dancing, chanting, loving life.
Richard wants everyone in this room to keep the right perspective. Yes, the Raiders may release you any day now. That doesn't mean you should tiptoe around on eggshells. Not at all. Richard wants everyone to cherish every second of every day, wants that mindset to become contagious.
"We have to have fun with this!" he says, slowly turning the music down to chat. "You could be here today and gone tomorrow. Enjoy it. Understand that we have nothing to worry about."
He has a perspective born of a realization that football is part of life, but it's not all of it. On Oct. 3, at 4:46 p.m., Richard's daughter, Jhett, was born. And through the long nights, the diaper-changing, that one time he needed to cut Jhett's onesie open because it was so messy, he has never stopped smiling. As Richard laughs and laughs and explains the art of passing your baby off to mom when you think she's about to go No. 2 all over you, it's clear that more players here must adopt his Zen.
Richard is certainly trying to help them.
He knows stress can poison the mind of any professional athlete. Far more than outsiders realize. Here in Oakland, during the preseason, Richard sensed that wideout Ryan Switzer was worried about being traded. So he told Switzer what he tells everyone here now: You have food at the crib. You have a refrigerator full of food. You're good! Switzer was, indeed, one of Gruden's first casualties when he was traded to Pittsburgh on Aug. 27...but Richard's message must've stuck. Switzer scored a touchdown three games later and has been employed since.
Not everybody can handle this business, and business is more volatile than ever in Oakland.
"People don't understand the stress you're under," Richard says. "How everybody is hitting your phone—'I need help for this. I need help for that.' That's a weight on your shoulders. We're providing for our family but on an even larger scale. It's just a little different than somebody else going to a little, regular job. This is not solidified for years. You can work your way up in the business and do that your whole life.
"We'll be done with football in our 30s. Most are done before their 30s."
One of Bisaccia's go-to lines sticks with Richard: "Your only job as a professional is to protect your job." One of Irvin's lines to him when he was a rookie in 2016 also sticks: "As long as you make plays, you'll have a job." Yet as this 2018 season crumbles, players have every reason to tune out their head coach. His actions keep devouring his words, rendering whatever Gruden says as gibberish.
Gruden laments the pass rush constantly...after trading a generational pass-rusher. Gruden is taken to school, weekly, by younger coaches...after admitting in the offseason he wouldn't rely on "modern technology." Gruden insists players are "dying" to play for the Raiders...and most of the country laughs.
When your boss is so obviously focused on the future, on Vegas, on a team he doesn't even have right now, it's difficult to buy into what he's saying in the present.
"I look at it like, S--t, he's our coach," Richard says. "It's like being in a relationship. You have to commit all the way or it ain't going to work. Some vets may have their opinion about it, but at the end of the day, we have to ride with him because that's our coach. We have to ride all together. This ain't basketball. It takes all 11. You can't just have somebody go for 40 and pull you out of some s--t. It takes a collective unit."
If it looks like these Raiders have mentally shifted into autopilot, maybe they have.
Richard is doing his best to zap all stragglers back to life.
He calls those who are trashing Carr "knuckleheads" because he'd sacrifice his body for Carr any play, any day. Richard knows others do not share this opinion. Including some in management. After all, Oakland can save $15 million in cap room by releasing the quarterback after the season.
As Richard speaks, Reggie Nelson leans in from a couple of lockers down.
"You're the only one doing interviews," the veteran safety says. "So when those quotes come out..."
"You see me, huh?" says Richard, chuckling. "Lee [Smith] told me like five people dropped some anonymous s--t.
"I'm putting my name, my stamp on my s--t! 'Spook said it! Spook said this!'"
This sport is a legal fight to him—"You can legally whup somebody's ###!" he says—and he believes Gruden understands that; understands players need to have each other's backs 24/7. Building this kind of culture can take years. And that may be why Richard doesn't see Gruden's trades as the beginning of the end but rather the mark of a team that's thinking ahead. One that doesn't want to be stuck in neutral. One that will fight.
Gruden was not made available for this story, but there's no doubt he loathed Mack's holdout and the message that would've been sent to everyone if he caved into his demand for a historic contract at the eleventh hour.
This is where actions certainly meet words. Players repeat that Gruden sincerely does not care where you came from. So out is Mack and in are players like Fadol Brown, who makes 2 percent of what Mack will average each season over the course of his contract. Brown promises that nobody works harder than him, pointing to his unique path to Oakland: from zero college offers to a "BS prep school" with classes that weren't even accredited to Florida International to three weeks at a JUCO to Ole Miss to a free-agent deal with the Raiders.
Brown is used to operating with a razor-thin margin for error. None of this chaos fazes him.
"The way this league works, it's what you do now," Brown says. "It's your performance now. It could be your very last day or you could be here for 10 years. Who knows?"
Brown, like Richard, defends the Mack trade. He believes Oakland can find eight starters with that $141 million.
And therein lies Gruden's challenge as Raiders czar: finding players. He'll have three first-round picks and $80 million in cap space (according to Spotrac.com) to use next offseason—a general manager's dream—but there are no guarantees he'll use this all for good. His first offseason in Oakland was an obvious calamity. Back in Tampa Bay, it's not like Gruden was a master rebuilder. No, Gruden inherited a Super Bowl-ready roster, and once the talent Tony Dungy nurtured dried up, poof, Gruden was fired. He was anointed a QB guru by his next employer when he was anything but in Tampa Bay, having shuffled through nine starters. (All along, internally, Gruden was known as someone who was far too quick to give up on young players.)
All Raiders fans should run for the hills.
Burn your jerseys. Sell your tickets. Ignore Gruden's blustery nonsense. Find a new team.
Yet, for one day, they do not. For one day, at Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, time stands still. The tailgates outside are buzzing, from the crew of fans in their 20s playing beer pong as E-40's "Tell Me When to Go" blares, to the stream of fans kin their 30s and 40s in Darren McFadden and Jeff Hostetler and Nnamdi Asomugha jerseys herding into the stadium. These fans are raw, real. Make eye contact with them and you don't know if their direct stare is screaming, Join me for a beer! or, You wanna fight!?
That's the level of loyalty owner Mark Davis has ditched for bachelor parties in Vegas. Authentic fanbases that fill stadiums don't seem to matter to NFL owners as long as those stadiums are monstrosities that lure corporate sponsors. As the Raiders and Colts trade haymakers on this Sunday, about 400 miles away, the Los Angeles Rams are forced to use a silent count...at home...with stars all over their roster...to simply function in a stadium that essentially transforms into Green Bay East.
The same bizarro world awaits these Raiders in 2020.
Yet for one day, Carr is worth every penny of his five-year, $125 million contract. He muscles through a sure sack, fires a bullet to Brandon LaFell in the end zone and leaps into the air, screaming at full throat. Up in the press box, incensed that his team is losing to lowly Oakland, 28-21, Colts GM Chris Ballard mumbles "That's just f--king stupid" under his breath and clenches a fist.
Then, the magic dies. The Colts score 21 unanswered. Game over.
There's no Migos blaring afterward. No music at all. The Raiders locker room is funeral-quiet, again, wherever you look. The weight of a season that's spiraling out of control falls on the players whose job it is to play on for two more months.
Safety Karl Joseph has no clue if he'll be around for long, saying he's leaning on his faith to get through.
Melvin bites his tongue. Asked if there's trust in management here, he doesn't offer much of an endorsement. "I don't have too much to say about it."
Roberts notes a decimated offensive line is holding Oakland back. "That's like someone protecting you," he says, "and you know that your guy is not there for you. You're going to be a little shaky."
All week, players insisted practice was different, that their spirits were renewed, and it still wasn't enough.
In defense of his sieve of a defense, Richard stays positive. "S--t, you're going against Andrew Luck!" The Raiders are embarrassed by Nick Mullens four days later.
Sometimes, football isn't complicated.
"If you ain't got the players, you ain't going to win," Richard says. "It's a players' league. You can call whatever, but we have to go out there and execute the s--t. You can have the best play dialed up in the world, but if the motherf--king wide receiver gets jammed at the line and can't get off, and everything is blocked up and you have the look that you want, and he just doesn't do it, it just doesn't happen."
He's correct. Players do win and lose games. The problem is, Gruden's choosing those players, and they're not fighting for him.
The future is as dark as it's ever been for the Raiders, and it'll only get darker. The cheering mob that's awaiting "Chuck-ee!" above that tunnel will gradually vanish as the likes of Philip Rivers and Patrick Mahomes and Ben Roethlisberger take turns blistering their team every week. But, hey, there's some good news for you, Oakland.
The entire Raiders team will vanish soon.
OAKLAND, Calif. — Initially, there's the expected misery.
The distinct feeling that you've plummeted into football hell.
From the Oakland Raiders sideline, the most audible sounds come from grown men in face paint, shoulder pads, spikes and scowls as they boo the team that's abandoning them for Las Vegas. One rogue drunk chants a sarcastic "Let's Go Vegas!" with a clap-clap-clap clap clap from the first row, and nobody seems to care. Once this soul-sucking 42-28 loss to the Colts is complete, players and coaches all lumber through the carcass of a tunnel with the same zombie gait.
The Raiders will relocate to Las Vegas in 2020, but four more games in this stadium this season feel like four too many.
Then, the boss appears. The one who's reportedly making $100 million over the next 10 years should absorb the most vitriol. Surely, that pack of silver and black that awaits Jon Gruden above the tunnel will spray him with beer and curse words. Red in the face, eyes down, limping more than strutting, Gruden inches closer...and closer...and...
"Chuck-ee! Chuck-ee!"
"Chuck-ee! Chuck-ee!"
No TV cameras are around. Only 50 or so rabid fans nudge ahead of one another for a better view of their hero. You'd think the Raiders had just smashed the Colts—not the other way around.
Gruden slows down, looks up, nods.
"We'll be back."
Four days later, Gruden's team proceeds to lie down and die on national television against the 1-7 49ers. A franchise that's perpetually buying real estate at rock bottom has found a way to sink even deeper. Oakland is 1-7 and losing to quarterbacks you've never heard of.
That's because to bring the Raiders back, Gruden believes he must dismantle the team he inherited. And he's been granted unprecedented time, patience and power by owner Mark Davis to do so. Forget rebuilding—this is a demolition. More Armageddon than Fixer Upper.
Gruden talked to his team about fighting for a championship all summer, only to trade away a Hall of Fame talent just over one week before the 2018 season began. The shock of the Khalil Mack deal infiltrated his team's bloodstream like a virus, a virus that's only continued to spread and left everyone with the distinct fear that no job is safe here.
Gruden is grinding along—without a coherent plan.
Jordy Nelson, washed up, at $13 million guaranteed? Why not. Martavis Bryant for a third-round draft pick? Sure. Trade for Christian Hackenberg? Done. A.J. McCarron wasn't good enough to beat out Nathan Peterman, you say? Bring him aboard for a fifth. Hello, Derrick Johnson. Goodbye, Derrick Johnson. So long, Amari Cooper. Rashaan Melvin and Reggie Nelson, starters for at least five weeks each, are suddenly healthy scratches. And never mind that pesky pass-rush issue...there's no spot for Bruce Irvin on this team anymore.
Maybe there's a method to the madness, and Gruden will hoist a Lombardi Trophy again. But halfway through his not-so-triumphant return to coaching, Gruden has burned his team into a pile of rubble.
Sift through the remains and there are some players who are trying to believe, but there's no doubt about it: The destruction is taking a toll.
One Raiders vet looks around an empty locker room and shakes his head.
"They're trying to find a reason," he says, "to get anybody out of here."
Two years ago, the inside of the Raiders locker room was electric. The fourth-quarter comebacks were constant, Derek Carr was an MVP front-runner and Super Bowl dreams were real. Players spoke at length about knowing, with a certainty, they'd find a way to win when they trailed by double digits.
There was fun, laughter, magic in the air.
Now? Step into the Raiders locker room and you'll think you've stumbled into a funeral. Voices are slightly above a whisper. Only 11 players from that 12-4 team remain.
In this tumultuous week of the Gruden era 2.0, anonymous players have ripped Carr for (allegedly) crying, and rumors are swirling that Gruden's about to trade as many guys as he can before the deadline. Most players are nowhere to be seen during media availability. For one prolonged stretch on a Thursday, only five practice-squad players pass through. Irvin, a man who's lived it all and was especially stunned (Warning: NSFW) at the Mack deal, refuses to lift his face out of his phone on a Friday.
Maybe it's because he can sense what's next for him, which is 24 snaps against the Colts, nine against the 49ers, and then a pink slip.
Inside his locker, cornerback Daryl Worley picks his beard with a comb. Whenever everything's brand new, he begins, you're starting at "Ground 1." Still, L after L after L in the present stings because players don't care about two, three, four years from now. They want to win. Now.
"We know it's a building process, but no one likes losing," Worley says. "You don't get into this game to lose—that's never our intention. ... It's definitely tough. You really play the game to win. It's hard when you have so many moving pieces, and you don't really have that concrete system yet. You have to look forward while also taking it day to day."
Tight end Lee Smith is a tad more blunt. He says motivation better not be a problem for anybody in the Raiders locker room when millions of everyday folks would jump into their shoes. Whatever long-term plan Gruden's devising, Smith believes, should have zero effect on players' effort level because, "It's our job as veterans to just do our damn jobs."
An admirable mentality, to be sure, but Smith is also in his eighth season. Veterans like him don't have time to wait around for whatever Vegas renaissance is dancing in Gruden's head. This could tick veterans off. Veterans want to win now.
"Absolutely. You work your butt off to win now. None of these guys are bench-pressing or squatting and running in February and March [to]...," says Smith, cutting himself short. "At the same time, we still have a job to do."
After he took over, Gruden turned the Raiders into the NFL's oldest team at an average age of 27.4 years. He basically envisioned a contender, suddenly did not, traded Mack and trapped everyone in a black hole of confusion. Take Melvin. The 29-year-old corner signed a one-year, $5.5 million deal with the Raiders, started five games, struggled and ripped coaches on Twitter. To which Gruden said in a press conference: "Melvin is on his seventh team. Maybe he is confused about what technique he is using."
The next time the Raiders played, there was Melvin. Benched. With a No. 22 chain around his neck, hands clasped behind his back, Melvin slowly paced the sideline for three hours. The next week, he was benched again. Melvin wants to play physical man-to-man coverage, wants to get into the face of receivers and insists he's played the same way his entire career.
Which is not, you know, what Gruden said.
"Very frustrating," Melvin says. "Very challenging. A lot of uncertainty. A lot of times, going out there and being uncomfortable.
"He's the head coach. This is his organization. This is his team. You take what he said and move on."
Blind hope still resides in this Raiders locker room. There's running back Jalen Richard, promising that wins come in bunches and the Raiders simply need a play or two each game to flip the result. There's returner Dwayne Harris, saying that when this schedule came out, players took a gander and expected to contend. Even at 1-5, Harris maintained they possessed the talent to win 10 straight. There are Pro Bowlers here. Playoff experience. That may be, but the problem is many of those veteran signings have backfired on Gruden, and he hasn't shown much of a willingness to develop young players.
Take Cooper, whose trade to Dallas hurt the coach's credibility in certain corners of the locker room.
Multiple players say Gruden told the team that Cooper would not be traded. The next thing they knew, Cooper was pulled off the practice field and shipped off to the Cowboys. Players found out about the deal on their phones after practice, as Gruden chatted with ESPN about the trade before he talked to his own team. True, he has since tried to clear the air, and the deal has come to be universally praised. Getting a first-round pick was Sam Hinkie-level processing and downright robbery compared to later picks dealt for Golden Tate and Demaryius Thomas. But Gruden still essentially lied to his players.
A disconnect was painfully obvious. And that was the danger in hiring Gruden: how he'd relate to the modern-day player after a decade in a broadcast booth.
Not to mention the fact that he gave up on a 24-year-old loaded with talent.
"All the guys that leave here, man, it shocks me to see," wide receiver Seth Roberts said. "But you know, that's how the league is. I think Amari...I know Amari's going to go there and blow it up."
Five seconds later, Roberts insists he's sold on Gruden's vision.
Because, oddly enough, it's also a fact that many players genuinely love playing for Gruden. Worley says the coach remains passionate and uplifting no matter what's going on and that players "feed off it." Defensive end Fadol Brown appreciates that Gruden doesn't care how you got here, adding that he's building a team that's "physical, smart, relentless." Richard calls his coach a "turnt-up individual" who listens to his players and implements their input to his coaching.
Richard then cautions that while Gruden's door is open to players, they better prepare themselves.
Gruden and his assistant head coach, Rich Bisaccia, never pull punches.
"He's going to shoot the s--t with you," Richard says. "You've got to have thick skin. These dudes are going to talk s--t to you. Like, 'You f--king suck.' OK, not 'f--king suck.' But they're going to f--k with you, like 'What the f--k are you doing on this video?!' They're going to be blunt guys. So you have to have thick skin and shoot the s--t back. I like that s--t."
Blind hope still resides in this Raiders locker room. There's running back Jalen Richard, promising that wins come in bunches and the Raiders simply need a play or two each game to flip the result. There's returner Dwayne Harris, saying that when this schedule came out, players took a gander and expected to contend. Even at 1-5, Harris maintained they possessed the talent to win 10 straight. There are Pro Bowlers here. Playoff experience. That may be, but the problem is many of those veteran signings have backfired on Gruden, and he hasn't shown much of a willingness to develop young players.
Take Cooper, whose trade to Dallas hurt the coach's credibility in certain corners of the locker room.
Multiple players say Gruden told the team that Cooper would not be traded. The next thing they knew, Cooper was pulled off the practice field and shipped off to the Cowboys. Players found out about the deal on their phones after practice, as Gruden chatted with ESPN about the trade before he talked to his own team. True, he has since tried to clear the air, and the deal has come to be universally praised. Getting a first-round pick was Sam Hinkie-level processing and downright robbery compared to later picks dealt for Golden Tate and Demaryius Thomas. But Gruden still essentially lied to his players.
A disconnect was painfully obvious. And that was the danger in hiring Gruden: how he'd relate to the modern-day player after a decade in a broadcast booth.
Not to mention the fact that he gave up on a 24-year-old loaded with talent.
"All the guys that leave here, man, it shocks me to see," wide receiver Seth Roberts said. "But you know, that's how the league is. I think Amari...I know Amari's going to go there and blow it up."
Five seconds later, Roberts insists he's sold on Gruden's vision.
Because, oddly enough, it's also a fact that many players genuinely love playing for Gruden. Worley says the coach remains passionate and uplifting no matter what's going on and that players "feed off it." Defensive end Fadol Brown appreciates that Gruden doesn't care how you got here, adding that he's building a team that's "physical, smart, relentless." Richard calls his coach a "turnt-up individual" who listens to his players and implements their input to his coaching.
Richard then cautions that while Gruden's door is open to players, they better prepare themselves.
Gruden and his assistant head coach, Rich Bisaccia, never pull punches.
"He's going to shoot the s--t with you," Richard says. "You've got to have thick skin. These dudes are going to talk s--t to you. Like, 'You f--king suck.' OK, not 'f--king suck.' But they're going to f--k with you, like 'What the f--k are you doing on this video?!' They're going to be blunt guys. So you have to have thick skin and shoot the s--t back. I like that s--t."
There's Migos blaring in the Raiders locker room on a Friday, and it's not by accident. The music's so loud, and the bass so explosive, it vibrates all the way outside, where Gruden holds a press conference. Richard could sense the need for a jolt of energy this week, so he figured he'd get players on their feet.
Dancing, chanting, loving life.
Richard wants everyone in this room to keep the right perspective. Yes, the Raiders may release you any day now. That doesn't mean you should tiptoe around on eggshells. Not at all. Richard wants everyone to cherish every second of every day, wants that mindset to become contagious.
"We have to have fun with this!" he says, slowly turning the music down to chat. "You could be here today and gone tomorrow. Enjoy it. Understand that we have nothing to worry about."
He has a perspective born of a realization that football is part of life, but it's not all of it. On Oct. 3, at 4:46 p.m., Richard's daughter, Jhett, was born. And through the long nights, the diaper-changing, that one time he needed to cut Jhett's onesie open because it was so messy, he has never stopped smiling. As Richard laughs and laughs and explains the art of passing your baby off to mom when you think she's about to go No. 2 all over you, it's clear that more players here must adopt his Zen.
Richard is certainly trying to help them.
He knows stress can poison the mind of any professional athlete. Far more than outsiders realize. Here in Oakland, during the preseason, Richard sensed that wideout Ryan Switzer was worried about being traded. So he told Switzer what he tells everyone here now: You have food at the crib. You have a refrigerator full of food. You're good! Switzer was, indeed, one of Gruden's first casualties when he was traded to Pittsburgh on Aug. 27...but Richard's message must've stuck. Switzer scored a touchdown three games later and has been employed since.
Not everybody can handle this business, and business is more volatile than ever in Oakland.
"People don't understand the stress you're under," Richard says. "How everybody is hitting your phone—'I need help for this. I need help for that.' That's a weight on your shoulders. We're providing for our family but on an even larger scale. It's just a little different than somebody else going to a little, regular job. This is not solidified for years. You can work your way up in the business and do that your whole life.
"We'll be done with football in our 30s. Most are done before their 30s."
One of Bisaccia's go-to lines sticks with Richard: "Your only job as a professional is to protect your job." One of Irvin's lines to him when he was a rookie in 2016 also sticks: "As long as you make plays, you'll have a job." Yet as this 2018 season crumbles, players have every reason to tune out their head coach. His actions keep devouring his words, rendering whatever Gruden says as gibberish.
Gruden laments the pass rush constantly...after trading a generational pass-rusher. Gruden is taken to school, weekly, by younger coaches...after admitting in the offseason he wouldn't rely on "modern technology." Gruden insists players are "dying" to play for the Raiders...and most of the country laughs.
When your boss is so obviously focused on the future, on Vegas, on a team he doesn't even have right now, it's difficult to buy into what he's saying in the present.
"I look at it like, S--t, he's our coach," Richard says. "It's like being in a relationship. You have to commit all the way or it ain't going to work. Some vets may have their opinion about it, but at the end of the day, we have to ride with him because that's our coach. We have to ride all together. This ain't basketball. It takes all 11. You can't just have somebody go for 40 and pull you out of some s--t. It takes a collective unit."
If it looks like these Raiders have mentally shifted into autopilot, maybe they have.
Richard is doing his best to zap all stragglers back to life.
He calls those who are trashing Carr "knuckleheads" because he'd sacrifice his body for Carr any play, any day. Richard knows others do not share this opinion. Including some in management. After all, Oakland can save $15 million in cap room by releasing the quarterback after the season.
As Richard speaks, Reggie Nelson leans in from a couple of lockers down.
"You're the only one doing interviews," the veteran safety says. "So when those quotes come out..."
"You see me, huh?" says Richard, chuckling. "Lee [Smith] told me like five people dropped some anonymous s--t.
"I'm putting my name, my stamp on my s--t! 'Spook said it! Spook said this!'"
This sport is a legal fight to him—"You can legally whup somebody's ###!" he says—and he believes Gruden understands that; understands players need to have each other's backs 24/7. Building this kind of culture can take years. And that may be why Richard doesn't see Gruden's trades as the beginning of the end but rather the mark of a team that's thinking ahead. One that doesn't want to be stuck in neutral. One that will fight.
Gruden was not made available for this story, but there's no doubt he loathed Mack's holdout and the message that would've been sent to everyone if he caved into his demand for a historic contract at the eleventh hour.
This is where actions certainly meet words. Players repeat that Gruden sincerely does not care where you came from. So out is Mack and in are players like Fadol Brown, who makes 2 percent of what Mack will average each season over the course of his contract. Brown promises that nobody works harder than him, pointing to his unique path to Oakland: from zero college offers to a "BS prep school" with classes that weren't even accredited to Florida International to three weeks at a JUCO to Ole Miss to a free-agent deal with the Raiders.
Brown is used to operating with a razor-thin margin for error. None of this chaos fazes him.
"The way this league works, it's what you do now," Brown says. "It's your performance now. It could be your very last day or you could be here for 10 years. Who knows?"
Brown, like Richard, defends the Mack trade. He believes Oakland can find eight starters with that $141 million.
And therein lies Gruden's challenge as Raiders czar: finding players. He'll have three first-round picks and $80 million in cap space (according to Spotrac.com) to use next offseason—a general manager's dream—but there are no guarantees he'll use this all for good. His first offseason in Oakland was an obvious calamity. Back in Tampa Bay, it's not like Gruden was a master rebuilder. No, Gruden inherited a Super Bowl-ready roster, and once the talent Tony Dungy nurtured dried up, poof, Gruden was fired. He was anointed a QB guru by his next employer when he was anything but in Tampa Bay, having shuffled through nine starters. (All along, internally, Gruden was known as someone who was far too quick to give up on young players.)
All Raiders fans should run for the hills.
Burn your jerseys. Sell your tickets. Ignore Gruden's blustery nonsense. Find a new team.
Yet, for one day, they do not. For one day, at Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, time stands still. The tailgates outside are buzzing, from the crew of fans in their 20s playing beer pong as E-40's "Tell Me When to Go" blares, to the stream of fans kin their 30s and 40s in Darren McFadden and Jeff Hostetler and Nnamdi Asomugha jerseys herding into the stadium. These fans are raw, real. Make eye contact with them and you don't know if their direct stare is screaming, Join me for a beer! or, You wanna fight!?
That's the level of loyalty owner Mark Davis has ditched for bachelor parties in Vegas. Authentic fanbases that fill stadiums don't seem to matter to NFL owners as long as those stadiums are monstrosities that lure corporate sponsors. As the Raiders and Colts trade haymakers on this Sunday, about 400 miles away, the Los Angeles Rams are forced to use a silent count...at home...with stars all over their roster...to simply function in a stadium that essentially transforms into Green Bay East.
The same bizarro world awaits these Raiders in 2020.
Yet for one day, Carr is worth every penny of his five-year, $125 million contract. He muscles through a sure sack, fires a bullet to Brandon LaFell in the end zone and leaps into the air, screaming at full throat. Up in the press box, incensed that his team is losing to lowly Oakland, 28-21, Colts GM Chris Ballard mumbles "That's just f--king stupid" under his breath and clenches a fist.
Then, the magic dies. The Colts score 21 unanswered. Game over.
There's no Migos blaring afterward. No music at all. The Raiders locker room is funeral-quiet, again, wherever you look. The weight of a season that's spiraling out of control falls on the players whose job it is to play on for two more months.
Safety Karl Joseph has no clue if he'll be around for long, saying he's leaning on his faith to get through.
Melvin bites his tongue. Asked if there's trust in management here, he doesn't offer much of an endorsement. "I don't have too much to say about it."
Roberts notes a decimated offensive line is holding Oakland back. "That's like someone protecting you," he says, "and you know that your guy is not there for you. You're going to be a little shaky."
All week, players insisted practice was different, that their spirits were renewed, and it still wasn't enough.
In defense of his sieve of a defense, Richard stays positive. "S--t, you're going against Andrew Luck!" The Raiders are embarrassed by Nick Mullens four days later.
Sometimes, football isn't complicated.
"If you ain't got the players, you ain't going to win," Richard says. "It's a players' league. You can call whatever, but we have to go out there and execute the s--t. You can have the best play dialed up in the world, but if the motherf--king wide receiver gets jammed at the line and can't get off, and everything is blocked up and you have the look that you want, and he just doesn't do it, it just doesn't happen."
He's correct. Players do win and lose games. The problem is, Gruden's choosing those players, and they're not fighting for him.
The future is as dark as it's ever been for the Raiders, and it'll only get darker. The cheering mob that's awaiting "Chuck-ee!" above that tunnel will gradually vanish as the likes of Philip Rivers and Patrick Mahomes and Ben Roethlisberger take turns blistering their team every week. But, hey, there's some good news for you, Oakland.
The entire Raiders team will vanish soon.
Chaka
Footballguy
Gruden is absolutely tanking/rebuilding/not prioritizing winning. And he's lost the players, so the lack of winning will be easy to continue.
I say maybe they get one more pride victory at most. Even that is a long shot at best.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Warren Sharp pointed out that the Raiders had the slowest pace from huddle to snap for the entire league last game. Consider that they were behind 14-0 in the blink of an eye. That pace doesn't sound like a coach trying to win.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
You very well may be right. Hard to say for sure unless you're in that locker room or in that huddle.Chaka said:
Man, I feel for you guys who have "only" been fans for the last, oh, I don't know, up to 25 years. I started following this team in the late 1960s so at least I had a couple good decades. ?
BTW, I took a look at when the Bears drafted the players I mentioned in a post above:
Dent, 8th round in 1983, Hampton 1st round in 1979, Wilson 1st round in 1980, Marshall 1st round in 1984), (Gruden could hope to do half as well with three of his 1sts...), Duerson 3rd round in 1983.
Here are the other starters of the 1985 Bears D as I remember 'em:
Steve McMichael, free agent (3rd round pick of Pats in 1980)
Refrigerator Perry, 1st round 1985
Mike Singletary, 2nd round 1982
Gary Fencik, 10th round 1976
Doug Plank, 12th round 1975
Leslie Frazier, I think undrafted
Mike Richardson, 2nd round in 1982
Now if you'll excuse me I have to find my glasses cuz I can't remember where I put 'em...
Ed Wood
Footballguy
Whew, lengthy read. Some good stuff.
My main take from this is the mixed signals/messages Gruden seems to be giving:
* Gruden talked to his team about fighting for a championship all summer, only to trade away a Hall of Fame talent just over one week before the 2018 season began.
* ...but the problem is many of those veteran signings have backfired on Gruden, and he hasn't shown much of a willingness to develop young players.
* Gruden laments the pass rush constantly...after trading a generational pass-rusher.
And a couple odds and ends that I took exception to:
* Richard calls his coach a "turnt-up individual" who listens to his players and implements their input to his coaching.
I really wonder about this just because of Carr. Maybe it's me but he looks really uncomfortable under center. Feel like he'd much rather been in the shotgun on a regular basis.
* Defensive end Fadol Brown appreciates that Gruden doesn't care how you got here, adding that he's building a team that's "physical, smart, relentless."
Uh, that would be a no, a no and another no...
And then one unforgivable writing/editing error:
* Maybe there's a method to the madness, and Gruden will hoist a Lombardi Trophy again. But halfway through his not-so-triumphant return to coaching, Gruden has burned his team into a pile of rubble.
Uh...maybe the writer knows something the rest of the world doesn't.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
People are going to continue to write these kind of articles spelling doom for the team, Gruden, and the overall franchise.
It's dark days, I won't deny. Willing to let the haters hate and these kind of hit pieces on how dysfunctional/idiotic/clueless people think the team, its coaches, and this front office is. They certainly have good arguments.
But this story -- this specific chapter in our history -- is far from over.
I hate having to wait another year or two...yet again...to see if we can claw back to relevancy and competitiveness. But I'm fine having the haters pile on as we rip off every band-aid and try to right this corsair faster.
It's dark days, I won't deny. Willing to let the haters hate and these kind of hit pieces on how dysfunctional/idiotic/clueless people think the team, its coaches, and this front office is. They certainly have good arguments.
But this story -- this specific chapter in our history -- is far from over.
I hate having to wait another year or two...yet again...to see if we can claw back to relevancy and competitiveness. But I'm fine having the haters pile on as we rip off every band-aid and try to right this corsair faster.
Appreciate your posts here, particularly your thoughts on your Raiders. As an outsider, the hardest part of the dismantling of this team is that when the couple of years waiting is over, the team will be out of Oakland.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
I agree. Tom's posts are generally of high quality and of the glass half-filled variety but with a dose of reality sprinkled so it's clear he's not viewing things with rose-colored glasses. Unlike some of us around here (like me) who see the glass as half empty with a big hole in the bottom. ?
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Now Jordy is retiring? Are we going to have any players left by Week 13 (let alone by end of season)?
I've heard about teams tanking, I've heard about players giving up on their season and their coach, but I don't think I've ever seen this degree of rats fleeing the ship (voluntarily or not) from an NFL team before.
Can anyone point to another situation where a team had such a complete dismantling coupled with numerous players retiring or requesting off the squad to the same degree? Usually it's a player or two.
Further heart-stabbing developments in a gut-wrenching, disheartening season.
I've heard about teams tanking, I've heard about players giving up on their season and their coach, but I don't think I've ever seen this degree of rats fleeing the ship (voluntarily or not) from an NFL team before.
Can anyone point to another situation where a team had such a complete dismantling coupled with numerous players retiring or requesting off the squad to the same degree? Usually it's a player or two.
Further heart-stabbing developments in a gut-wrenching, disheartening season.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I just commented on this in the Nelson thread but he deserved better than to finish his career in such a horrible environment. At least he got paid nicely for his trouble.
These are not rats fleeing a sinking ship. These are men that have had enough of an incompetent boss and can move on. The Raiders are a really terrible football team and will be worse next year. Carr is gone at the end of the season so the QB carousel will begin and no FAs are coming to the Raiders unless they want to simply get a last big pay check. The Raiders are going to have to over pay by a ton for FAs. The roster will be filled with a bunch of never-wases that cannot catch on with the other 31 teams and has-beens that get to fleece Gruden and the Raiders.
On a positive note, we only have 9 more years of this to look forward to! Well, if any of us are actually following the Raiders in 2 or 3 years.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’d be willing to bet Jordy signs somewhere else next year.
Saw a bit of Gruden’s post game. He’s sounding / looking disinterested, defeated & spouts cliche after cliche.
Kinda sick of hearing that dude. He’s clearly tanking and it’s not pretty to watch.
And IMO he’s setting himself up for an even bigger fall by putting all of his eggs into the draft basket.
I listen to games on the radio on the way home from my market. At one point, Mussbueger (who’s as exciting as listening to paint dry and never, ever says a defensive players name, which is maddening - hell, on the Gordon TD run he just said “and they’re off to the races” without even saying who had the football) stopped calling the game & just started rambling about the Raiders draft picks, and I thought, “I bet they screw up 1/2 of those at least”.
And then it occurred to me that if that happens - if the 2019 draft isn’t absolutely nails, then Gruden will lose whatever credibility & good will / faith he’s built over his career. He’ll have nowhere else to go with his scowl. He won’t be able to point to the process or the future. He has to hit literally every one of those 1st rounders, because he gave up Amari Cooper & Khalil Mack.
Talk about pressure.
I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again - I feel for Raiders fans. Y’all deserve better.
Saw a bit of Gruden’s post game. He’s sounding / looking disinterested, defeated & spouts cliche after cliche.
Kinda sick of hearing that dude. He’s clearly tanking and it’s not pretty to watch.
And IMO he’s setting himself up for an even bigger fall by putting all of his eggs into the draft basket.
I listen to games on the radio on the way home from my market. At one point, Mussbueger (who’s as exciting as listening to paint dry and never, ever says a defensive players name, which is maddening - hell, on the Gordon TD run he just said “and they’re off to the races” without even saying who had the football) stopped calling the game & just started rambling about the Raiders draft picks, and I thought, “I bet they screw up 1/2 of those at least”.
And then it occurred to me that if that happens - if the 2019 draft isn’t absolutely nails, then Gruden will lose whatever credibility & good will / faith he’s built over his career. He’ll have nowhere else to go with his scowl. He won’t be able to point to the process or the future. He has to hit literally every one of those 1st rounders, because he gave up Amari Cooper & Khalil Mack.
Talk about pressure.
I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again - I feel for Raiders fans. Y’all deserve better.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
They're in full tanking mode. I think that's not such a bad decision given what they had at the start of the season (it wasn't a Super Bowl contending roster, and wasn't going to be with just a couple of tweaks). As a Charger fan, I am concerned about how many draft picks they're stockpiling. If they use those effectively they could build a very good team quickly, that could be together for a while.
That said, Gruden could be handling the public facing side of things a bit better. They're also destroying Carr. I can't see him being their QB long term after how they've handled him this season. I have no idea what they could do to get out from under his deal without a hit though.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree with much of this, (especially Carr, who’s starting to look like his brother in the pocket) but to your specific concern about the draft, what’s your prediction for success on those picks? Not just the 3x firsts, but the stockpile of 2-3-4th rounders?
do they hit on
90% - grade A
80% - grade B
70% - grade C
60% - grade D
50% or less - grade F
and realistically speaking that’s putting each pick into a vacuum. They could nail 80 of the picks & still have a terrible draft considering their critical needs at an overwhealming number of positions.
I identify their priorities as
1. Pass rush
2. Safety
3. WR
4. OL
They need more, but I see those as the most pressing.
(As an aside, #1 is self-inflicted and would have been much easier to address if they hadn’t dealt Mack, but that’s a discussion for another day...)
so ok - of those 4 critical needs, let’s say they hit on 3 of them.
Pick any 3. They still have problems.
And while some might argue that WR or really any of those needs can be addressed through FA, imma keep it real here: no FA is going to want to play for the Raiders. They know they’re not gonna win. So if the Raiders do get anyone, it’ll be at a premium. Consider how the Niners has to overpay anyone they acquired during the Dennis Erickson / Mike Singletary eras.
Overpaying for mediocre FA talent isn’t a great way to rebuild or win, and it plays hell with your cap.
So IMO Gruden must have as close to 100% success with this stockpile of draft picks or the Raiders will be in deep long-term trouble.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I can't give you a prediction on that. I just know they have an opportunity given how many draft picks they have. Whether they make the most of it (realistically) remains to be seen. Its going to take a couple of years. If I were them I wouldn't be investing in big ticket free agents this offseason. See how the draft shakes out, fill the gaps with some one year fill ins, shoot again at the draft the following season.
The thing with Carr really hurts as they're destroying his trade value - they could have gotten themselves some more draft pick ammunition.
The thing with Carr really hurts as they're destroying his trade value - they could have gotten themselves some more draft pick ammunition.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'm sure Carr can still fetch a second in return. There are several NFL teams who probably don't want a complete rebuild with a rookie QB. Shame how they are using him, but I think he has displayed some quality leadership skills with how well he is handling the tank job. His health is on the line and he still trots out there every week.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
People seem drunk with the idea of the Raiders stock piling draft choices. The assumption is they they hit on a large percentage of these picks. HSG's post asks a legit question. As I have pointed out previously we can lean on history to provide some insight. History shows that Gruden did not draft a single elite player in all his years with Tampa. Early returns on his first draft are not positive. It is reasonable to think they hit on less than 50% of their upcoming picks, and that is giving Gruden the benefit of the large area of doubt.
But for the sake of this discussion, let's say they hit home runs on their first three picks, and then their two first round picks in the 2020 draft. This will be positive in the short term, but come year five when the money comes due the raiders will not be able to pay these players their market value. Best case scenario is the raiders hit on a large percentage of the their picks and play competitive football for a couple of years, then tear it all down again because they do not have the economic resources to pay the players.
I do not think the new stadium in vegas is going to be the panacea for Davis' money issues. This team is playing the worst football in the league. Non competitive and not entertaining. I doubt that will change in the near term so I have a very difficult time believing people are going to flock to buying PSLs and season tickets.
But for the sake of this discussion, let's say they hit home runs on their first three picks, and then their two first round picks in the 2020 draft. This will be positive in the short term, but come year five when the money comes due the raiders will not be able to pay these players their market value. Best case scenario is the raiders hit on a large percentage of the their picks and play competitive football for a couple of years, then tear it all down again because they do not have the economic resources to pay the players.
I do not think the new stadium in vegas is going to be the panacea for Davis' money issues. This team is playing the worst football in the league. Non competitive and not entertaining. I doubt that will change in the near term so I have a very difficult time believing people are going to flock to buying PSLs and season tickets.
dcgangstas
Footballguy
I've harped on this before, but the thing that drives me nuts about Carr is that he never seems to be able to improvise.
Four minutes to go and fourth-and-five on the Chargers' 19. He does one read to Jalen Richard, and when he's not open Carr just throws the ball into the turf. No attempt to buy some time and find another receiver. I know you've taken a beat Son, but show some heart for Goodness' sakes.
Four minutes to go and fourth-and-five on the Chargers' 19. He does one read to Jalen Richard, and when he's not open Carr just throws the ball into the turf. No attempt to buy some time and find another receiver. I know you've taken a beat Son, but show some heart for Goodness' sakes.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
This is a good point and something I worry about as well -- wasn't our snagging Carr and Mack in the same draft one root cause of why the team felt they needed to trade Mach (couldn't afford them both without hamstringing the team).
Seems like we're setting ourselves up for that potential again if we are actually successful and get some picks that pan out into great players.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
That's the way of the league until you find a stud QB.
Tom Brady has played with how many different teams? Drew Brees has played with how many supporting casts? Baltimore has rebuilt the defense how many times? Seattle is going through the same thing with Wilson. Teams have windows.
The Raiders had their studs on cheap deals...but by the time is came to pay up, McKenzie failed to build a championship team around them. So rather than resign and lock the franchise into mediocrity at best, sell them for picks, and it's time to restart all over again. Sucks but what can you do.
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The article basically reinforces what many have said on here. Reggie had one good draft in 5 years. That's not close to good enough. They wasted so many 2nd round picks that it just killed the team. They had a core group of players but Reggie just couldn't get the right picks and free agents in to compliment Mack, Carr, Cooper and Jackson. And when they chose not to pay Mack what he wanted, they began the deconstruction.
And what the heck happened in Washington DC last season? Who knows, the owner doesn't even know. But apparently Gruden knew enough, that he was walking into a divided locker room, another reason to blow it all up.
I actually believe we saw the weaknesses of the team way before DC. When Carr broke his leg at the end of 2016, the team folded faster than Super Man on laundry day. Even with Mack on the field the rest of the group wasn't close to good enough to compete without Carr.
Fast forward to now. This all led to a complete rebuild, basically they're an expansion team, a waste of a season. It's not fair to the fanbase, and I don't blame Gruden and Carr, IMO this all falls on Davis and McKenzie. Keep Reggie to do the contracts, but keep that guy as far away from the draft war room as possible, because that's what really killed this team, not Gruden.
Not that I disagree mind you...
I just find it hilarious how easy it is to identify the Raiders' draft priorities. Just look for everything they traded away and voila! Draft priorities.
Gruden is mind-bogglingly dumb this go-round.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
Carr's cap hit after this year isn't that bad actually.
2019 - $7.5 million in dead money / $15 million cap savings
2020 -$5 million in dead money / $16.5 million cap savings
2021 - $2.5 million in dead money / $19.6 million cap savings
2022 - $0 million in dead money /$19.9 million cap savings
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah - I mean that 1st one is glaringly painfully obvious. Then again so are the others.
Literally:Yeah - I mean that 1st one is glaringly painfully obvious. Then again so are the others.
1. Pass rush (K. Mack)
2. Safety (Obi?)
3. WR (Cooper)
4. OL (Ok, maybe they haven't given any of these away yet?)
msommer
Footballguy
Can easily be traded. For the receiving team it's basically a 4 year, 80m contract with nothing guaranteed. They'd probably (have to) snazzle it up a bit and extend it to 6 years with some guarantees. I mean, that's pretty close to Case Keenum money...krsone21 said:
ETA: Do that and the Raiders are virtually guaranteed the 1st pick in 2020 (also)
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I don't think Reggie's track record is really any better or worse than any other GM in terms of draft hits. Happy to be quantifiably proven wrong against a baseline mean, but it's not as if draft picks aren't more than a 50/50 shot in general anyway, for anyone.
Reggie definitely turned the club around from cap hell, and while many of the picks from his early tenure aren't working out, I think the jury is still out on guys like Obi and last year's class (Hall, Hurst, Key, Miller, Parker, Ateman).
I think the Raiders should hold on to Carr for at least another year. This year's QB draft crop is considerably weaker than the last year or two, with really only Herbert, and maybe Lock, as decently reliable picks and neither one (IMHO) true franchise caliber. And there is absolute trash coming up in FA in 2019 for QBs -- Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor, McCown, Fitzmagic. Hard passes on all of them in terms of not being clearly better options than Carr.
So Davis and Co. would be wise to hold onto Carr because of a lack of clear better options -- that is, unless we have an eye on the 2020 draft class and want to completely tank next year as well.
Which at this point, I sadly don't put it past the team to do so.
Reggie definitely turned the club around from cap hell, and while many of the picks from his early tenure aren't working out, I think the jury is still out on guys like Obi and last year's class (Hall, Hurst, Key, Miller, Parker, Ateman).
I think the Raiders should hold on to Carr for at least another year. This year's QB draft crop is considerably weaker than the last year or two, with really only Herbert, and maybe Lock, as decently reliable picks and neither one (IMHO) true franchise caliber. And there is absolute trash coming up in FA in 2019 for QBs -- Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor, McCown, Fitzmagic. Hard passes on all of them in terms of not being clearly better options than Carr.
So Davis and Co. would be wise to hold onto Carr because of a lack of clear better options -- that is, unless we have an eye on the 2020 draft class and want to completely tank next year as well.
Which at this point, I sadly don't put it past the team to do so.
I agree, I think all the Carr trade talk was just that, talk. I read somewhere months ago, one of the reasons Gruden took the job was to work with Carr. Despite how bad he looks this year I definitely think he gets at least another year in Grudens system. This year really just seems like one giant preseason.
As far as Reggie goes I tend to disagree. While all GMs miss (too lazy to look for stats) it just seems like he missed way more than he hit on draft picks. He had one great draft in 2015. Other that, there isn't much to write home about. And I gotta believe last years draft picks had to be strongly influenced by Gruden. So I don't count those as Reggies guys.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I think we're too colored by our own teams miserable failures to realize that no one in the league is a great drafter consistently -- the entire exercise of drafting is completely hit/miss.
Fox once ranked teams' 5-year draft record starting in 2012, coincidentally aligning to the year Reggie joined the Raiders. They had their own system of approach, but overall, they rated the Raiders 6th best. Mostly on the strength of 2014, but they have brought in 4 Pro Bowlers in Mack, Carr, Lata Murray, and Cooper.
Doesn't matter that only one is still on the team, that's pretty good, and doesn't register other hits like Gabe Jackson and Jelly Ellis, and I think in addition to the guys I mention above, jury is still out on players who look promising but may need maturation and additional time before we judge -- like Karl Joseph, Obi, Conley, Vanderdoes, Ateman, Nick Nelson, and Brandon Parker.
Overall, Reggie single-handedly saved the team from cap hell and has been ok to good with his draft picks, IMHO. He deserves a shot to help build this team, if only as a check and balance to both Davis and Gruden.
ICON211
Footballguy
Overall I think Reggie has done a poor job. He was given the job security to tear down the team and have no expectations to win for 2-3 years. I don't think getting out of the bad cap situation was the hard part. All he had to do was cut everybody and not hand out any big contracts for a couple years. The hard part was building a contending team after that and he definitely failed at that. His drafts were extremely poor. After six years the depth was still razor thin and the team had only a few difference makers. On top of that he had two bad coaching hires.
On the plus side he did manage the cap well and gave out sensible contracts (with the exception of Seth Roberts) and he wisely built up the offensive line.
Going forward I don't see what role he has in this organization. Make not mistake, this last draft class was all Gruden and it's all Gruden going forward.
On the plus side he did manage the cap well and gave out sensible contracts (with the exception of Seth Roberts) and he wisely built up the offensive line.
Going forward I don't see what role he has in this organization. Make not mistake, this last draft class was all Gruden and it's all Gruden going forward.
ICON211
Footballguy
I don't know what Arizona's defensive scheme is, but unless Peterson always shadows one receiver no matter who they are playing I don't know why they would make him follow anyone on the Raiders. Outside of Doug Martin and Cook I wouldn't want any part of anyone on the Raiders.
