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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)

Great thoughts, kaso, and agree with the sentiment you seem to forward that this team needs Mack. I have seen this play out before with posturing on both sides given it's a business, but now I'm officially worried that the team is indeed thinking of moving on.

Which I think would be a terrible mistake.

Letting a generational talent like Mack walk would be a huge error, for what it means winning now and for this organization in the future. There aren't many players who are worth overpaying but Mack IMO is one, and we've been handling restructuring and finances all this time to seemingly accommodate it, but not hearing anything out of either side for this long makes me worried.

You are always sad to lose a key player, but that's the nature of professional sports. But at this point, the Raiders would be making a mistake not doing everything they can to make this happen, and at this point it seems they may indeed be leaning the other way. 

It's getting baffling to me why this is taking this long to get parties closer together, and hate seeing the ongoing thread of them being so far apart.

 
By the way, how super boring and vanilla will this upcoming preseason tilt with the Rams be?

We play them in very short order in Week 1, so I highly doubt either squad is going to show anything in terms of their approach, schemes, etc. on either side of the ball.

This set up is kind of weird but not unheard of by far in terms of playing teams like the Cowboys and Titans and others in the preseason in years recent past, then playing them in regular season. Not sure the turnaround time was this short, though. 

Will be interesting to see how both teams try to evaluate players in what I assume will be more of a vanilla approach than usual in the preseason, given that these teams play each other again for real 23 short days after tomorrow.

 
Hearing that Warren and the Lynch Family have been close.

so much so Lynch has hassling Warren about messing up in college hence going undrafted. We may have picked up another gem here

 
Ha, I knew no one was going to show anything to the other team today, but I didn't think it would be 3rd and 4th string guys from the jump today.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
By the way, how super boring and vanilla will this upcoming preseason tilt with the Rams be?

We play them in very short order in Week 1, so I highly doubt either squad is going to show anything in terms of their approach, schemes, etc. on either side of the ball.

This set up is kind of weird but not unheard of by far in terms of playing teams like the Cowboys and Titans and others in the preseason in years recent past, then playing them in regular season. Not sure the turnaround time was this short, though. 

Will be interesting to see how both teams try to evaluate players in what I assume will be more of a vanilla approach than usual in the preseason, given that these teams play each other again for real 23 short days after tomorrow.
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Wow.  Did you ever call this.  Even for pre-season this game is awful.

 
Quick observations from the game:

Back up QBs looked awful. Manuel looked about the same as he did in week 1. Cook regressed big time. 

Too many drive killing penalties on offense. Whenever they tried to run a sweep, there was a holding penalty on the edge. 2 on Pharoah Brown alone.

No sign of Seth Roberts all preseason but Switzer and Whalen are getting lots of reps in the first 2 games. Ateman got some playing time in the 4th quarter and had a nice catch and run. Are Roberts' days numbered? 

Logjam at RB thanks to Chris Warren III. No sign of Washington yesterday. Doghouse or day off? Haven't seen much of Martin either this preseason. I'm an older guy, I've seen lots of training camp RBs brought in just to handle the bulk of the preseason work, then cut while the starters are rested. I believe Warren is NOT one of those guys. I saw Warren playing ST as well which tells me they are giving him those reps so he can at least make the team as a back up/ST guy. Because if Lynch goes down at any point in the season Warren will be there to take on that role. Is Gruden favoring Richard over Washington? After watching yesterday its possible. Granted, he is fun to watch.

Back up Oline looked decent in the running game. Pretty terrible in the passing game in my opinion. Feliciano had problems at center. Sharpe seems to struggle at times with quick guys, but he played most of the game and did alright. Nice to see Brandon Parker out there getting some work. Looked like he was holding his own at RT.

Defense just looks better all around.  Better personnel in the secondary. They just seem to compete and contest the receivers better than the garbage they were lining up back there the past couple years. 

Hey! There was a Conley sighting! Good to see him play a couple series, hopefully he came out of the game healthy.

Arden Key is a mystery to me. Is he injured? Are they saving him for the regular season? I saw him play briefly in the 2nd half, but definitely isn't getting a lot of reps at this point. Hurst looked dominant to me. He was getting pressure and stuffing the run. He looks good! Hall didn't flash like he did last week, but he still looks solid and hes gonna be a handful for olinemen. How does a guy like that not even get invited to the scouting combine?

Marquel Lee looks like a different player this year. He was flying all over the field.

To sum up, pretty boring, vanilla game to watch but its probably a great game for coaches to assess the backups as a lot of inexperienced players got a lot of reps. 

 
I'm going to be very disappointed if Oakland doesn't find a way to finagle a trade with Washington for a RB.

 
Hurst and Hall look like they gonna be part of the rotation, and will provide some inside rush.  Pretty stoked.  

Marquel Lee has sure looked like he is developing.   :thumbup:

Nice to see Conley play and not get hurt.  

Melvin/Conley/Worley/Nelson could be.....dare I say......a strength?

 
massraider said:
Hurst and Hall look like they gonna be part of the rotation, and will provide some inside rush.  Pretty stoked.  

Marquel Lee has sure looked like he is developing.   :thumbup:

Nice to see Conley play and not get hurt.  

Melvin/Conley/Worley/Nelson could be.....dare I say......a strength?
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Good observations but haven't we seen over the past few seasons some random low draft pick or UDFA MLB get lots of preseason praise only to be a liability on the games go live? Then they go with a retread vet as the best of a bunch of bad options.

 
There is no way they are doing anything with Warren other than groom him to be the warhorse next year.

He's a 6.2 247 wrecking ball with some sound speed and decent elusiveness, and the kind of runner who falls forward on every play. He's not exactly Beastmode-ly, but I have to think we let Lynch and Martin walk next year and keep Warren and Richard as our Wheatley/Garner thunder/lightning duo. Which means see ya Washington, who was very noticeably absent. 

Since we haven't seen Martin at all, will be interesting to see if camp reports of Martin looking studly hold, as he may find himself having to execute in order to hold Martin off the field.

My observations, for whatever they are worth,

Q1

  • Need to iron out miscues. Yes, it's still early, we're getting the 2s/3s/4s their shot on the field, but starting the game with a mis-snap 4 feet above the QBs head is inexcusable in the pros.
  • Chris Warren continues to impress from his game 1 performance - second play first drive, 2nd and 20, takes a swing pass to the flat without protection. Meets 3 defenders -- lowers left shoulder and drives one guy into the turf while trucking the guy who meets him face-front, all while stepping inside to elude a LB tackler, then dragging the first tackler who is desperately holding on to his ankle for a yard or two. Just wow.
  • A few times in 3rd and long we were running plays that were only 5 yards deep. May be part of the vanilla scheme in preseason, but noticed those as wasted downs.
  • Raiders first D series, had some solid man coverage by Conley (!)  
  • We showed solidity against the run as a first/second team unit. D line holding blocks and gaps to stuff runners at or behind the LOS -- Lee and Nicholas Morrow both had a nice run stops 1:1 in space against #2RB Malcolm Brown
  • Rashaan Melvin had a great blanketing coverage stop on a drag by Fred Brown. Ditto Nick Nelson on man coverage against this same receiver. May be just a 3rd stringer making us look better.
  • Shareece Wright had a nice open field stop to prevent a first down on a PA bootleg pass to Pharoh Cooper, and stuffing Cooper a few plays later on a bubble/screen.
  • Gabe Wright got pushed back and neutralized by Justin Lawler, leading to the turnover. Our tackles need to handle LBs better than that.
  • Overall, a lot of 3 an outs -- to be fair, on both sides -- but we need to execute an move chains with any personnel, even the depth guys, if we are to fully leverage our rotational talent.
  • Like last week, saw good pursuit of the D towards the ball. I think we gave up one big yardage play in the first quarter -- a PA slant to Mike Thomas in a coverage gap during the last 5 mins of the quarter -- and allowed a 3rd down conversion on a TE mismatch play. But otherwise there were always multiple D players staying with the play and making tackles, helping to clean up initial missed tackles, etc.
Q2

  • Our boys showed grit inside the 10 against the run, clogging up gaps and making plays. Antonio Hamilton was in position on 4th string RB John Kelly and got a shoulder on him on the goal line, but Kelly had the angle. Rams got lucky there as Kelly fumbled in the EZ. Hold your head up, boys, you looked good.
  • Warren still running hard and falling forward early in the 2nd.
  • Richard showed his trademark open-field elusiveness on a catch and run
  • Our run D still looking stout in the early second, with Hall doing some nice anchoring.
  • Manuel still looking like a game manager than a guy who can put us in different positions other than 3rd and long. 
  • Nick Nelson unfortunately got bested by rookie KhaDaro Hodge on a deep ball. Don't know if that was rookie mistakes playing man instead of the ball or just a great play by Hodge. Maybe both.
  • Shareece Wright with another good stop to prevent a first on a pass along the far sidelines
  • Raiders D showed nice resiliency holding the Rams to a FG before the 2 min warning.
  • Our second tier OL was having trouble with edge rushers and pocket integrity. Manuel actually threw a skyhook under pressure to Richard in order to avoid a sack. We simply broke down offensively to end the first half. And while Cook had a great game last week, we really need Carr to stay healthy, as our backups really don't cut it IMHO. 
  • Our D again showed fantastic grit and pursuit in holding the Rams to a FG after an unfortunate unnecessary roughness call that placed the ball inside our 10. 
Q3

  • D continues to make some critical mistakes, Calhoun getting a roughing the passer call after what could have been a 3-and-out 
  • Shalom Luani with a nice stop knifing through traffic from the backfield to get stop on an outside sweep. Hello, goodbye, and peace.
  • Mo Hurst gets a sack! Putting Key, Hurst, and Hall all along the right side looks like a winning combo in terms of collapsing pockets.
  • Holton looked soft in letting an out to the right sideline get through his hands as he was pressured.
  • Cook adding a 6th 3-and-out with a bad pass in traffic trying to target a receiver with 3 defenders nearby
  • Sloppy play in general gets worse in this quarter, negating a pretty decent Switzer punt return, and again with Hamilton needlessly bodyslamming a guy after the whistle when he had already made a pretty stop to prevent a first down on 2nd and 7.
  • KhaDarel Hodge getting lucky again catching a pass at our 15, even though his right heel was out. We were right to challenge that.
  • Calhoun again looking good with a nice play to trip up Nick Holley in the backfield, and another good red zone defense by our boys, holding Rams to another FG instead of a TD.
  • Warren wearing down a D, with a few consecutive pile-moving runs
  • We benefited from busted coverage with Cook hitting Pharoah Brown while rookie Tegray Scales froze in space that got us to the Rams 22. Yuracheck showing us what he got with a nice catch out of the backfield, Warren with a big up the middle rumbling, yard-ripping run then busting into the EZ from the 2 on the next play. Well done, boys.
  • We clearly need to work on our 2-point conversions. Fugly execution.
  • Again loving what the D was doing in getting 3rd down stops with under a minute to go in the Q-- Tank Carradine showing up with Cabinda for a coverage stop preventing a QB scramble for a 1st.
  
Q4

  • *EJ Manuel taking a nice shot downfield when the line gave him some time. Couldn't tell if it was overthrown, or if Keon Hatcher couldn't get in position well enough, but he was covered well. Refs doing a good job letting incidental contact go on 50/50 balls for both sides.
  • D broke down on a 3rd and 11 play misreading the blitz and letting rookie linebacker Micah Kiser come through unabated to Manuel. Have to be better than that to earn your spot, boys. A defensive penalty saved your bacon there.
  • Warren running with patience and authority for a 23 yard rip through a huge hole as our TEs sealed the line and got downfield for their blocks. Which we follow with a false start, of course.
  • Our red zone plays are horrendous, causing us to settle for FGs
  • Cowser benefits from Allen telegraphing the throw -- good job staying in the throwing lane deep enough to make a play on the ball.
  • Quick and desperate underneath throws put us in a 3rd and long, and we benefit from the lowering the head rule as the Rams D bails us out of a dodgy throw from Manuel to Baugh in traffic.
  • Whalen's TD was impressive -- great hands to get control of the ball, great football awareness to turn upfield and get over the stripe as contact comes from multiple sides.
  • Love Gruden going for 2. Hate the off-tackle run call -- when does that work on a conversion?
  • D follows up looking like our D of old -- looking solid keeping receivers in front of the first down marker, then totally blowing a 3rd and long by giving up a long throw to a TE, Henry Krieger-Coble, who was as wide open as you can be on a seam-to-sideline route. Then they give up a 12 man in formation penalty, handing the Rams easy field position.
  • Hamilton got lucky as he let rookie Steven Mitchell completely by him but he was overthrown on what could have been a score. FG Rams.
  • Manuel had a nice pass on a crossing out to Ateman, who looked good gaining separation and running a good route that got the first down despite good coverage.
  • Again the line mishandles a blitz and causes us to punt late in the game when we needed to be on the hunt for points. On D, we were holding the Rams and could have taken advantage of forcing them to the 2 min timeout when we had no timeouts left, but we incur a facemask penalty, which gives the Rams the first down and the ability to V-formation to the end of the game.
 
You guys are reading way too much into the most vanilla preseason game in the history of vanilla preseason games.

The only thing worth gleaning besides the gawd-awful play of the backup QBs was who Gruden held inactive on offense. Barring injury, those for now appear to be the names he was hiding from the Rams. Among them: Doug Martin and Deandre Washington.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
There is no way they are doing anything with Warren other than groom him to be the warhorse next year.

He's a 6.2 247 wrecking ball with some sound speed and decent elusiveness, and the kind of runner who falls forward on every play. He's not exactly Beastmode-ly...
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I don't think Beast Mode was truly Beast Mode until he got to Seattle.

 
LawFitz said:
You guys are reading way too much into the most vanilla preseason game in the history of vanilla preseason games.

The only thing worth gleaning besides the gawd-awful play of the backup QBs was who Gruden held inactive on offense. Barring injury, those for now appear to be the names he was hiding from the Rams. Among them: Doug Martin and Deandre Washington.
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Agree, I think it is much more likely Richard is the odd man out.

 
Chaka said:
Good observations but haven't we seen over the past few seasons some random low draft pick or UDFA MLB get lots of preseason praise only to be a liability on the games go live? Then they go with a retread vet as the best of a bunch of bad options.
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Sure, but I don't think less of Warren because people liked Elijah Hood.  

I still think Whitehead is the LB we will count on. However, when a guy has practice buzz, and looks good in a game, I take note.  

I don't want to overreact to any preseason game, especially this one. So boring, so vanilla, few players that will matter to the team actually played. 

 
"I'm not trying to screw them," Aaron Rodgers said on ESPN Wisconsin's "Wilde and Tausch" on Monday. "This is a partnership. The only way this is going to work and the best way for this to work is that we're in this together."

Somebody show this quote to Khalil Mack. Sign for $20mm per or kick rocks and play for $14mm this year and franchise tags the next two, big man. I really hope Gru and Big Reg continue to stand firm.

 
LawFitz said:
"I'm not trying to screw them," Aaron Rodgers said on ESPN Wisconsin's "Wilde and Tausch" on Monday. "This is a partnership. The only way this is going to work and the best way for this to work is that we're in this together."

Somebody show this quote to Khalil Mack. Sign for $20mm per or kick rocks and play for $14mm this year and franchise tags the next two, big man. I really hope Gru and Big Reg continue to stand firm.
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I hope they trade the best defensive player in the league. 

 
kaso said:
Aaron Rodgers has earned $137,144,529 reasons to be able to say he isn't trying to screw them. 

Rodgers Cash Earnings to Date
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Plus some pretty lucrative endorsement deals.  7.5 million a year according to Forbes.

QB's are playing into their late 30's and early 40's at a high level of both performance and pay,  and don't get the abuse they used to, so yeah, much easier to be "fair" than for a guy like Mack who has a much more limited time frame to make his money and is more susceptible to injury.  Amazed that anyone can blame him for taking a hard line and from what I read, he is pretty headstrong, so don't expect him to cave over a couple missed game checks.  Raiders need him so I wouldn't be surprised if he sits a couple games so they can see exactly how great that need is.

 
efactor said:
Plus some pretty lucrative endorsement deals.  7.5 million a year according to Forbes.

QB's are playing into their late 30's and early 40's at a high level of both performance and pay,  and don't get the abuse they used to, so yeah, much easier to be "fair" than for a guy like Mack who has a much more limited time frame to make his money and is more susceptible to injury.  Amazed that anyone can blame him for taking a hard line and from what I read, he is pretty headstrong, so don't expect him to cave over a couple missed game checks.  Raiders need him so I wouldn't be surprised if he sits a couple games so they can see exactly how great that need is.
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Much easier? Mack is staring $120 MM, with $60 MM guaranteed in the face and balking. This in a zero sum environment with the salary cap, meaning the blood he squeezes out of this turnip comes directly out of the teammates around him. Tells me a lot about this dude's character - it's not nearly as rosy as it's been painted over the years.

The Raiders appear ready to give him the Laveon treatment, and that's exactly the right move. Get the next two years out of him on the 'cheap' then trade him for a draft boat. Gruden ain't messing around. Get in line, Khalil.

 
Been searching for some Chris Warren II highlights to see how III compares to his old man. This is the best I could find. II seems faster and more shifty, but he was 20 lbs lighter.

https://youtu.be/VeR6YpFt5TU?t=1173

I've enjoyed Jalen Richard's video game moves the last two years, but my stomach will hurt if they keep that midget over CWIII.

 
LawFitz said:
Much easier? Mack is staring $120 MM, with $60 MM guaranteed in the face and balking. This in a zero sum environment with the salary cap, meaning the blood he squeezes out of this turnip comes directly out of the teammates around him. Tells me a lot about this dude's character - it's not nearly as rosy as it's been painted over the years.

The Raiders appear ready to give him the Laveon treatment, and that's exactly the right move. Get the next two years out of him on the 'cheap' then trade him for a draft boat. Gruden ain't messing around. Get in line, Khalil.
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I don't dispute the fact that the Raiders are the ones with the leverage, and they have every right to kick this can down the road by placing the franchise tag on Mack for a few years. But there is also benefit in my mind of staying communicative and going through the motions (making offers, saying the right things, etc.) to avoid souring a player on the front office and having him feel that they don't care.

Working with Mack may still not amount to anything concrete in terms of signing him -- he still will want to see what Donald gets first for further leverage, Raiders front office doesn't want to put the team in jeopardy cap-wise given the amount they will need to shell out to Carr over the next few years, etc. -- but going through the motions helps avoid this becoming contentious and it sticking in Mack's craw to the point that he all but demands to move when we're done with the tagging.

Aim here should be keeping Mack on as a generational talent for his entire career, IMHO. I don't know if the Raiders brass feel the same way, and given by all the reports that call out lack of dialogue, they may indeed be taking the path of being willing to let Mack go after tagging him. While no one player is above the team, I do think it's a mistake not seeking to set ourselves on the path of trying to keep Mack a Raider for life.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Aim here should be keeping Mack on as a generational talent for his entire career prime, IMHO. I don't know if the Raiders brass feel the same way, and given by all the reports that call out lack of dialogue, they may indeed be taking the path of being willing to let Mack go after tagging him. While no one player is above the team, I do think it's a mistake not seeking to set ourselves on the path of trying to keep Mack a Raider for life.
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FTFY. He'll be 30 after the next three years pass. They can trade him for a king's ransom at 29 after the next two years, if he can't get his head on straight.

Per Gruden -

“Mack’s the best player coming off the edge in football, that’s our opinion. We’re determined to find a way to get him in here and get him a contract and get on with life. This is a negotiation, Joel Segal’s the agent, they’ve got their plan, Reggie McKenzie and the people that are negotiating the contract on our end have a plan. I’m coaching the team and at this time he’s not here and we’ve got to focus on what we can control and that’s just working.”

They agree with you. Don't believe the media B.S. They've made him an offer around ~20mm per and are holding firm. As they should. If he's really offended, then it speaks a lot about this dude, and not in a good way.

 
LawFitz said:
Much easier? Mack is staring $120 MM, with $60 MM guaranteed in the face and balking. This in a zero sum environment with the salary cap, meaning the blood he squeezes out of this turnip comes directly out of the teammates around him. Tells me a lot about this dude's character - it's not nearly as rosy as it's been painted over the years.

The Raiders appear ready to give him the Laveon treatment, and that's exactly the right move. Get the next two years out of him on the 'cheap' then trade him for a draft boat. Gruden ain't messing around. Get in line, Khalil.
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Not sure what you mean.  He's staring one year $14M and possibly being franchised next year and balking at that.  You think they have offered him $120M with $60M guaranteed?  Don't believe I have seen that reported anywhere.

 
^^^Reading between the lines. Gruden is quoted saying they think he's the best edge defender in football and that they've been negotiating with him. These guys aren't dumb. If he's the NFL's #1 edge, that means they have to offer him more than Von, who got 6 years / $115 MM / $70 mm guaranteed. Mack's offer has to be at least slightly higher. Problem is, as has been reported, Mack wants $22-25 MM per year and that they aren't "even close." Who's fault is that? Who's being unreasonable here? Greed kills

 
LawFitz said:
^^^Reading between the lines. Gruden is quoted saying they think he's the best edge defender in football and that they've been negotiating with him. These guys aren't dumb. If he's the NFL's #1 edge, that means they have to offer him more than Von, who got 6 years / $115 MM / $70 mm guaranteed. Mack's offer has to be at least slightly higher. Problem is, as has been reported, Mack wants $22-25 MM per year and that they aren't "even close." Who's fault is that? Who's being unreasonable here? Greed kills
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It's a good point, but we also have to remember that given the leverage that is on the Raiders side, Mack also has no reason to accept a deal with Donald's contract still waiting to be set -- these will be market-setting deals that would ultimately benefit Mack in a negotiation, so despite the lack of leverage there is no benefit to accepting a deal now, or negotiating against himself, until other deal information comes to bear.

So would not completely trash Mack for being greedy or attack his character. This is part of the theater of NFL negotiations.

 
^^^Great point about wanting to wait to see how much Donald breaks the bank. But that still doesn't change the fact that those last few millions per year will mean less for his teammates each year.

Be a team player, Mack. Take your $120 MM and get to work. How many lambos and mansions do your grandkids need?

 
LawFitz said:
^^^Great point about wanting to wait to see how much Donald breaks the bank. But that still doesn't change the fact that those last few millions per year will mean less for his teammates each year.

Be a team player, Mack. Take your $120 MM and get to work. How many lambos and mansions do your grandkids need?
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My thoughts exactly and one of the reasons why I watch less of the NFL each year.  These guys play a violent game and must cash in as quickly as possible.  Negotiating over the guaranteed money makes sense but it feels like this is not really a negotiation.  I don't see the common sense from Mack's side if he truly wants to win.  Take your fortune, play your heart out and leave some money on the table to bring in some other great players to win a SB.  After he is done playing and he has made over $100M, I bet he would rather have a SB win than another $5M.  Maybe that is just my view and winning doesn't matter to everyone equally.       

 
DocHolliday said:
My thoughts exactly and one of the reasons why I watch less of the NFL each year.  These guys play a violent game and must cash in as quickly as possible.  Negotiating over the guaranteed money makes sense but it feels like this is not really a negotiation.  I don't see the common sense from Mack's side if he truly wants to win.  Take your fortune, play your heart out and leave some money on the table to bring in some other great players to win a SB.  After he is done playing and he has made over $100M, I bet he would rather have a SB win than another $5M.  Maybe that is just my view and winning doesn't matter to everyone equally.       
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This assumes they have offered him a contract with say $60M guaranteed.  I'm not no sure that is the case.  I completely understand him not wanting to play on the fifth year option and then possibly getting franchised for 2019.

 
ICON211 said:
This assumes they have offered him a contract with say $60M guaranteed.  I'm not no sure that is the case.  I completely understand him not wanting to play on the fifth year option and then possibly getting franchised for 2019.
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Plenty of evidence from team sources to indicate they've made an offer (or offers). Von got $70 MM guaranteed. Gruden quoted saying they think Mack is the best edge defender in football. No way they've offered him less than $60 MM guaranteed. Trust the head coach over noted Raider haters like Cris Carter for inside info here.

 
There are a some moving parts here to the Mack contract IMO. First I think they want to see what Donald will be making. Second Mack and his agent might want more money in the later years of the contract to reap the rewards of moving to Vegas and having 0 in state taxes. 

 
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LawFitz said:
Much easier? Mack is staring $120 MM, with $60 MM guaranteed in the face and balking. This in a zero sum environment with the salary cap, meaning the blood he squeezes out of this turnip comes directly out of the teammates around him. Tells me a lot about this dude's character - it's not nearly as rosy as it's been painted over the years.

The Raiders appear ready to give him the Laveon treatment, and that's exactly the right move. Get the next two years out of him on the 'cheap' then trade him for a draft boat. Gruden ain't messing around. Get in line, Khalil.
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No, the Leveon treatment is not the right move.  

As great as Bell is, an elite edge rusher is way more important to a team than a RB.  Also, Mack is not reaching what is traditionally a drop off point in ability like Bell is. Prime of his career.

Also, the next two years are certainly cheaper than an extension, but not cheap.  If he decides to pull a Cousins and bet on himself, it will get expensive fast and they take the chance of getting nothing in return after the 2nd franchise tag (unless they want to slap a 3rd tag, which I haven't seen anyone do).   Plus the trade value drops prior to the 2nd franchise tag as teams won't give a "kings ransom" for a guy who can be a free agent the following year, so now is the optimal time to make a deal if you only think you would have him for two more years. Also, if he has a drop off in performance, that trade value will drop more. Raiders have some leverage now, but that leverage drops each year he earns big money.  Like Cousins, each year becomes easier to risk the guaranteed money when your bank account is larger.  

I just always find it odd that football fans begrudge a player getting everything he can while he can.  Especially in this case where the guy has been elite and has watched non elite talent such as Carr, Jackson and Cooper (certainly good players but not elite) get extensions when he doesn't.  

 
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Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - DB - Raiders

Raiders signed CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

Rodgers-Cromartie showed enough in a Wednesday workout to land a deal. The Raiders have been searching for secondary upgrades and settled on Rodgers-Cromartie over Bashaud Breeland. Rodgers-Cromartie is going to need some time to get acclimated to DC Paul Guenther's scheme, but he should push Gareon Conley for outside snaps.

 
ICON211 said:
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - DB - Raiders

Raiders signed CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

Rodgers-Cromartie showed enough in a Wednesday workout to land a deal. The Raiders have been searching for secondary upgrades and settled on Rodgers-Cromartie over Bashaud Breeland. Rodgers-Cromartie is going to need some time to get acclimated to DC Paul Guenther's scheme, but he should push Gareon Conley for outside snaps.
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Would love to see the specifics of the deal -- I believe the cap gain to the Giants was $6.5M when he was released -- but on the face of it, I like the signing to push rookies into performing, being a stop-gap at both DB and safety, and bringing some more of that veteran presence to teach the youngsters.

 
efactor said:
No, the Leveon treatment is not the right move.  

As great as Bell is, an elite edge rusher is way more important to a team than a RB.  Also, Mack is not reaching what is traditionally a drop off point in ability like Bell is. Prime of his career.

Also, the next two years are certainly cheaper than an extension, but not cheap.  If he decides to pull a Cousins and bet on himself, it will get expensive fast and they take the chance of getting nothing in return after the 2nd franchise tag (unless they want to slap a 3rd tag, which I haven't seen anyone do).   Plus the trade value drops prior to the 2nd franchise tag as teams won't give a "kings ransom" for a guy who can be a free agent the following year, so now is the optimal time to make a deal if you only think you would have him for two more years. Also, if he has a drop off in performance, that trade value will drop more. Raiders have some leverage now, but that leverage drops each year he earns big money.  Like Cousins, each year becomes easier to risk the guaranteed money when your bank account is larger.  

I just always find it odd that football fans begrudge a player getting everything he can while he can.  Especially in this case where the guy has been elite and has watched non elite talent such as Carr, Jackson and Cooper (certainly good players but not elite) get extensions when he doesn't.  
Click to expand...
Cooper hasn't been extended (yet). Jackson and Carr got market value deals for their talent and career arcs as they stood last year.

I don't begrudge Mack for wanting to be the highest paid edge in the NFL. He deserves that. I begrudge him wanting 30% above that level, even though it would clearly compromise the talent around him.

They would still get a king's ransom two years from now, assuming health and play don't fall off. And if not two years from now, then at least wait 'til next offseason. It would be foolish to trade him now, as so many seem to be suggesting. Fortunately, that is just media noise. The Raiders have ZERO intent to trade and have made that abudantly clear to teams calling.

 
From the article two posts above...

“Mack’s the best player coming off the edge in football,” Raiders head coach Jon Gruden said last week. “That’s our opinion. We’re determined to find a way to get him in here and get him a contract and get on with life."

The Raiders haven’t given any interested teams permission to discuss a new contract with Mack’s representatives in a potential trade scenario, according to sources.

 
I just saw as part of the DRC signing that we released Obi. Man, that is disappointing. I had high hopes that his combo of size and speed would be a great defensive addition to cover TE's and big WR's. I guess not. 

I heard some rumblings that the injury issue may have not been healing up right. 

 
I'm surprised they didn't consider Iloka. He seems like they type of player they had hoped Obi could become someday. Plus he knows Guenthers system. 

 
Chadstroma said:
I just saw as part of the DRC signing that we released Obi. Man, that is disappointing. I had high hopes that his combo of size and speed would be a great defensive addition to cover TE's and big WR's. I guess not. 

I heard some rumblings that the injury issue may have not been healing up right. 
Click to expand...
2nd round pick went POOF! so quickly. Dang. I hate wasted high-round picks.

I'm not going to torture myself to see who else was drafted around that pick...

 
Gruden flexing. Old scholarships are gone, though new ones have perhaps emerged (Martin). Reading that they lost faith in Obi's love of football, and that was his ultimate demise. JDR and Belichick destroyed this dude.

 
Chadstroma said:
I just saw as part of the DRC signing that we released Obi. Man, that is disappointing. I had high hopes that his combo of size and speed would be a great defensive addition to cover TE's and big WR's. I guess not. 

I heard some rumblings that the injury issue may have not been healing up right. 
Click to expand...
That was quick.  :loco:

 
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