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***OFFICIAL*** Survivor S32 - Brains Brawn Beauty Part Deux (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Corporation
- Start date
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Mjolnirs said:
From what i saw on another board: Aubry got the votes of Joe and Nick while Michele got Cydney, Debbie, Jason, Julia, and Scot.
Fariq
Footballguy
jamny
Footballguy
Hopefully Michelle & Tai were watching the jury during the fire challenge as they have no shot of winning if they are sitting next to Aubry
Nope.. i like it.. you almost DON'T want to win as the winner will NOT look good voting out a juror as it will make them look weak. .
oso diablo
Footballguy
i think BJS = Bitter Jury Syndrome
oso diablo
Footballguy
if Aubrey wins that last challenge, she votes off Julia. But that would have made the jury vote 4-3, in favor of Michelle (all other things being equal)
tdoss
Footballguy
But would've killed the argument of Michelle getting stronger at the end.
What did Michelle do really?
She won a couple things right at the end...which really made a difference but honestly not much to hang your hat on.
A beauty used the social game to advance...big stretch there. No one would've figured that.
I don't like Aubrey and think she looks like an oompa loompa mated with a troll doll but she really stretched herself. Played socially, intelligently and was definitely behind the inner workings of the game all season long. And did it losing her two closest allies to dumb stuff.
EYLive
Footballguy
I was thinking about this as well. Tai was fairly strong throughout the game strategically, socially and in challenges.
But I think his weakness in the jurors' eyes is that he never really owned his gameplay. He played dirty when he needed to but never embraced those moves. He shy'd away from the dark side but would backstab allies when it suited him. He was in constant (and outwardly) conflicted about this moves and I can see how that would be off-putting to a lot of people.
EYLive
Footballguy
I think Aubry played a better overall game from start to finish and I would have no problem if she won. But she (a brain) got beat by Michelle (a beauty) in back to back puzzle challenges in the last episode. Michelle also crushed the animal/number memory puzzle. I'd say that's a pretty good case of her not just being a beauty using her social game to advance. She was known for her loyalty, and that means a lot to jurors as well.
NREC34
Footballguy
I think Tai will see when he watches it back that he was right to turn on them because they were talking about taking him out. So what he did helped him get to the finals but it cost him votes. Maybe there was not really much chance of him winning it all no matter how he played it.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I think Tai turned out to be a bit of a phony in the end. He supposedly loved that chicken so much but then Probst said sorry Tai, the chicken stays here on the island and Tai was like, okay, bye chicken. 
McGarnicle
Footballguy
Corporation
Angry Bovine
Most people have said that Aubry was the most deserving winner, I'm not sure why you are so worked up. It is not even comparable to the Russell/Natalie situation. Russell was a far better player than Aubry, and Michele was a far better player than Natalie. Michele won 3 individual reward or immunity challenges and played a great social game. Michele is not even in the bottom 5 of winners off the top of my head (Natalie, Vecepia, Amber, Danni, and the bow tie old guy who was on Sugar's season).
Jayrok
Footballguy
oops.. Sorry oso diablo! 
Master of Past and Present
Footballguy
Think Cydney's question to Aubry showed why Aubry wasn't ahead of Michele.
'You were the person with me at every decision along the game, you were there for the Nick vote, Debbi vote, Scott vote, switching the vote from Michele to Jason, that was all your idea. So I had to vote you out at that point because I knew that is what you would do'
She basically campaigned against herself and really put doubt whether moves that maybe seemed like her was really her. She showcased why she wasn't a dominant player with that answer. Boils down to, we did this, this, and that, you did this, I did this because of your thinking on strategy.
I don't think Michele was a great player but neither was Aubry despite the edit she got.
'You were the person with me at every decision along the game, you were there for the Nick vote, Debbi vote, Scott vote, switching the vote from Michele to Jason, that was all your idea. So I had to vote you out at that point because I knew that is what you would do'
She basically campaigned against herself and really put doubt whether moves that maybe seemed like her was really her. She showcased why she wasn't a dominant player with that answer. Boils down to, we did this, this, and that, you did this, I did this because of your thinking on strategy.
I don't think Michele was a great player but neither was Aubry despite the edit she got.
dparker713
Footballguy
No, the BS part is claiming that somehow the jury has so much more information than we do. They have different information. They're party to some, not all, of the relevant discussions. They don't see any of the confessionals. There's no reason to defer to the jury's determination as to who played the better game. We see plenty and they don't see all.
dparker713
Footballguy
Todd might have been the last player to really lock things up with the jury during questioning. I wanted Aubrey to tell Scot to vote for her because she kicked his ###.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Tai played a pretty bad game. Totally ok with no votes going to him.
Aubry making fire to win I was afraid would seal ti for her. I liked her and Michelle but always prefer the person I'd rather have on my team in a challenge, which was Michelle in this case.
Have any of you tried to get on Survivor? Ever? Any stories?
Aubry making fire to win I was afraid would seal ti for her. I liked her and Michelle but always prefer the person I'd rather have on my team in a challenge, which was Michelle in this case.
Have any of you tried to get on Survivor? Ever? Any stories?
northern exposure
Footballguy
This "Aubry is hot" shtick ranks right up there with Eminence's act as some of the worst in the FFA.Mario Kart said:
Corporation
Angry Bovine
Corporation said:
Let me first say I despise the new quoting systemdparker713 said:
I think EY's point was we see only a fraction of what happens on the island, so they really have more complete information. Almost everyone knows exactly who voted for who, we've seen them talk about it at camp all the time. You are correct of course they don't see the confessionals and they aren't a part of every conversation. His point of she played a good social game (which even her competitors admitted during the show) but that it wasn't of enough interest to televise is valid.
I'm not arguing that we should always defer to the jury's determination of who played the better game, as BJS (Bitter Jury Syndrome) can be real, as Russell and Natalie found out. To say we see plenty is misleading though, as the producer's main job is to deliver an interesting product, not a fair and balanced one. Absurd example: What if Natalie was really the mastermind behind everything Russell did, but she did it in a very boring way. She told him where to look for idols, she told him when to blow up, she calmed him down when he was off kilter, etc. The producer decides to make Russell a star and invite him back for the next season without the new cast seeing his antics, helping ensure a repeat of a classic villain. To make him more likable, they only show scenes where she is laying out on the beach, or catching her in moments where she has zoned out. They don't let her retape her confessionals, making her seem ditsy. The audience would then be outraged when it appears that a bitter jury has robbed the greatest player ever, when in reality they saw everything as it unfolded. Our knowledge of confessionals and selected scenes of conversations cannot be as reliable as the people who lived it 24/7.
After reading this, I nearly deleted it
Neither the home viewer or the contestants have a full picture, and bitter juries do happen, but in general I think they have better information than we do.
dparker713
Footballguy
Sometimes the juries may have better information, and sometimes the viewers may. But I don't think we should ever defer to them as I don't believe we can know when that is true and regardless I don't think it's a massive difference in any case.After reading this, I nearly deleted it
In this case, Michelle's entire game seemed to be not pissing people off and winning a couple of challenges. It's hard to think of a player that's done less to win.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Tina Wesson and Natalie White come to mind. Natalie won with a bitter jury when Russell dominated game play in every category except the social game. Tina was handed the check by Colby when he inexplicably took her to the finals instead of the chef guy who everyone on the jury hated.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Um, the two time winner Sandra didn't do much to win either time.
EYLive
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
I seriously can't believe this narrative is taking hold. Pollard and Bounty Hunter were, of course, complete tools. But Michele got the vote of every one of the three women on the jury, none of whom I would describe as a "prom queen." If anything, the most superficial member of the jury apart from the two d-bags was probably the preening Nick, who voted for Aubry.
I have more to write about the finale, which I finally watched yesterday, but for now I'll say that Michele played Sandra's game, and actually did it about as well. Her intelligence and social game were extremely impressive. I didn't overly dislike Aubry, but post-show interviews make clear that she alienated quite a few people with abrasiveness - which is not difficult to believe - while Michele was unfailingly polite and pleasant, even when the chips were down, which they were for her for most of the game. In addition, Aubry made several boneheaded moves, most notably orchestrating the inexplicable boot of "Jason" (love a guy with two first names who decides to use his last name) instead of Michele with six left. Aubry probably wishes she had that one back.
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Fariq
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
How does that make Tina undeserving? The knock on Colby is that he was dumb enough to take someone who could win to the finals instead of someone who would have been easy to beat. That may make him a fool, but only because he took someone who deserved to win.
mr. furley
Footballguy
Jayrok
Footballguy
I didn't use the word "undeserving", and yes, Colby was dumb enough to take a likable person to the end with him... a mistake. I was replying to the post that said "It's hard to think of a player that's done less to win."
I think Tina did less to win in her season than Michelle did in this season. I don't remember Tina winning any challenges, though she may have. I watched that season and remember her flying under the radar and not making any enemies. Michelle was on the block more than once and came out on top. I don't remember Tina ever being on the block at any tribal.
She was closer to Joe (wasn't perceived as a threat) than Michelle, imo.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
At this point there have been enough winners of Survivor that have just lied low and not been an active part in making moves that you have to consider it a decent strategy. I don't like the play and I'm not sure there was a lot of thought put into by those that have won this way but it has proven to be a viable way to a million dollars multiple times.
In The Zone
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
northern exposure
Footballguy
Statorama
gangster
Going to disagree here. Sandra's game is (was) more vocal and active. There's a general "anyone but me" strategy that they both employed, but Sandra's game is (was) more active while Michele's game was more passive.
Like you, I'm also starting to get the impression that Aubry's show edit doesn't seem to reflect how her fellow cast mates viewed her.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
As to the latter, the post-show interviews, really only skimming them, leave that unmistakable impression. Many AV Club and Previously TV posters who have seen the Ponderosa vids (I have not as I detested nearly the entire jury) claim those back that up as well.
You're right. I like Sandra except when she got her second win off a bitter jury not wanting to reward Parvati, but she was in-your-face and brash or even brazen, while Michele was quiet, and I think that's why so many people are surprised by her win and translating it into some highway theft. The real failures are those of the editors, who were unable or unwilling to capture Michele's astounding social game, probably not helped by the fact that I don’t think she went to Tribal until over three weeks in.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
From the questioning, looking back I think it was pretty evident that the jury followed through on their personalities much more than game play. Follow me here:
- it started off with the jury only wanting Michelle to show them her intelligence. In the same breath, they wanted to know about Aubry's game play.
- Aubry didn't do a great job letting them know about her moves however all Michelle had to do was show them she is intelligent.
- Aubry = brain, Michelle = beauty
All they wanted from them was for Michelle to show them that she had a brain. They wanted Aubry to show them she was the master mind of the whole thing. The pissy jury fit their stereotypes and were jealous that a brain got the best of them.
- it started off with the jury only wanting Michelle to show them her intelligence. In the same breath, they wanted to know about Aubry's game play.
- Aubry didn't do a great job letting them know about her moves however all Michelle had to do was show them she is intelligent.
- Aubry = brain, Michelle = beauty
All they wanted from them was for Michelle to show them that she had a brain. They wanted Aubry to show them she was the master mind of the whole thing. The pissy jury fit their stereotypes and were jealous that a brain got the best of them.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
This show is trash, America should have a say in who wins. Too many people are butthurt by the end of the show and it clouds their judgement. The fact that Russel Hantz wasn't able to at least pull out one win, despite being the best player in the history of the game, speaks volumes.
dparker713
Footballguy
He and Hatch are the best first time players ever imo, but Boston Rob's win was probably the best full game anyone has ever played.
I agree with you and Corp. I think Michelle played the game well and finished far stronger. Heck, Aubry needed Tai yet again just to make the final 3. Sorry, but to put Aubry in the same place as Hantz is just silly. She almost cracked day one. She made plenty of not so good moves and sure as heck wasn't nearly good enough at the final tribal. She actually conceded that Cydney made many of the moves when she was responding to Cydney. I thought Michelle played the last couple tribals perfectly and her choice of Neal was perfect (he was a ##### on the way out).Aerial Assault said:
Some seriously butt hurt Aubry fans in here who think she was a way better player than she was and that Michelle did nothing. Neither of which is true.
Going way back, I still think I was 100% correct that Tai made a huge mistake not staying with Scot and Jason. No, not falling on the sword with the idol, but sticking with them in the first place and going to the final four and trying to win that immunity to get into the final 3. I think he would have hands down the winner in that case. It still would have taken an II win, but I think that was much better chance.
I actually enjoyed the season and liked Michelle winning because she really came through the last few tribals. It was a nice twist after watching a lot of not so good moves and not so strong players. I wonder if they didn't do the "winner's" edit because they realized they do it too often and they wanted to the surprise ending. Maybe they tried to make Aubry look a little better.
