***OFFICIAL*** Washington Nationals ongoing thread (2 Viewers)

[The_Man]

I can't tell if that is schtick with the user name and post or not. I'll pretend that it is.

It's been fun watching the inevitable "contrarians" scramble to come up with pro-Papelbon or anti-Harper arguments. They're so obvious and silly. It's pretty much all old ballplayers or ex-ballplayers age 35 or over, most of whom clearly don't watch Harper play on a regular basis, probably didn't even see the pop fly in question (since he did jog to first just like everyone else does), and are likely jealous of his talent and the attention he receives. So predictable.

Kilgore's column was outstanding, should be the final word on the incident. Should have been the only word, really.

Yeah, Kilgore's column was pretty great. It really is an out of date perception of Harper. I'm sure Papelbon reminisced with his buddy Cole Hamels afterwards about that time Hamels plunked Harper for no reason.

This comes just days after "Mr. Plays the Game the Right Way" threw at Manny Machado's freaking head because Machado dared to hit a game-winning home run.

 

[Don Quixote]

I can't tell if that is schtick with the user name and post or not. I'll pretend that it is.

It's been fun watching the inevitable "contrarians" scramble to come up with pro-Papelbon or anti-Harper arguments. They're so obvious and silly. It's pretty much all old ballplayers or ex-ballplayers age 35 or over, most of whom clearly don't watch Harper play on a regular basis, probably didn't even see the pop fly in question (since he did jog to first just like everyone else does), and are likely jealous of his talent and the attention he receives. So predictable.

Kilgore's column was outstanding, should be the final word on the incident. Should have been the only word, really.

Yeah, Kilgore's column was pretty great. It really is an out of date perception of Harper. I'm sure Papelbon reminisced with his buddy Cole Hamels afterwards about that time Hamels plunked Harper for no reason.

This comes just days after "Mr. Plays the Game the Right Way" threw at Manny Machado's freaking head because Machado dared to hit a game-winning home run.

I think the two incidents are definitely related. After Papelbon hit Machado, Harper made some comments to the media about being worried he was going to get hit the next day in retaliation. Papelbon probably did not like Harper not sticking up for his right to be an ####### and taking any retaliatory beaning like a man, or something.

 

[larch]

Kilgore's column was outstanding, should be the final word on the incident. Should have been the only word, really.

The Washington Post

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[The_Man]

Thomas Boswell ‏@ThomasBoswellWP 16m16 minutes ago

Make this CLEAR: Papelbon had grudge vs Harper from last week when he backed Machado after Pap beanballs. That was 99% of fight. Hustle: 1%.

 

[Don Quixote]

Barry Svrluga's series has been great. A lot about the clubhouse difficulties today. Werth tearing down the lineup card, for one example. Another good quote about Williams:

“He’s like the guy in his house who hears a sound, like someone breaking in,” one player said. “And his reaction isn’t to take care of the problem or investigate. It’s to put his head under the pillow and hope it goes away.”

Does not paint the picture of him as someone who is even a good manager behind the scenes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

 

[larch]

Barry Svrluga's series has been great. A lot about the clubhouse difficulties today. Werth tearing down the lineup card, for one example. Another good quote about Williams:

“He’s like the guy in his house who hears a sound, like someone breaking in,” one player said. “And his reaction isn’t to take care of the problem or investigate. It’s to put his head under the pillow and hope it goes away.”

Does not paint the picture of him as someone who is even a good manager behind the scenes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

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[TobiasFunke]

Barry Svrluga's series has been great. A lot about the clubhouse difficulties today. Werth tearing down the lineup card, for one example. Another good quote about Williams:

“He’s like the guy in his house who hears a sound, like someone breaking in,” one player said. “And his reaction isn’t to take care of the problem or investigate. It’s to put his head under the pillow and hope it goes away.”

Does not paint the picture of him as someone who is even a good manager behind the scenes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

Sure, but nobody's perfect. And you can put up with some ineptitude behind the scenes when you get the benefit of brilliant strategic decisions. Like, say, having your 5 spot hitter, who is a horrible and inexperienced bunter, attempt a bunt down one run in the 9th inning with men on first and second and nobody out against a pitcher who's just given up two straight well-struck base hits.

 

[TobiasFunke]

It's the little things that get you through seasons like this. Today, that little thing is Wale asking Chick Hernandez on Twitter to let him know when Papelbon is ready to sell his recently-purchased DC area mansion

 

[Don Quixote]

Barry Svrluga's series has been great. A lot about the clubhouse difficulties today. Werth tearing down the lineup card, for one example. Another good quote about Williams:

“He’s like the guy in his house who hears a sound, like someone breaking in,” one player said. “And his reaction isn’t to take care of the problem or investigate. It’s to put his head under the pillow and hope it goes away.”

Does not paint the picture of him as someone who is even a good manager behind the scenes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

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[JZilla]

Speaking of Rizzo, he should GTFO too

Ramos for Capps

Roark for Guzman

Ross and Turner for Souza

Drafting Rendon and Giolito when others backed off due to injury

Not giving in to fan pressure to throw money at now-fading homegrown stars Zimmermann and Desmond

Turning a 100+ loss team into the team with the second-most wins in baseball over the last four seasons.

As bad as the Papelbon trade and the Williams hire were I still think he's a long way from burning up all the rope he earned with those moves.

I was only half kidding. A few of those acquisitions have shown to be big league worthy, it's true. The only one who's kinda studly is also made of porcelain.

Real results... we'll see. Rizzo will be around a while longer. He's made some nice moves. The team's spent money wisely and made the playoffs twice. Good stuff, a number of GMs are capable of this. But the Papelbon fiasco is the MLB embarrassment of the season. And it's not even over yet.

 

[kOOk]

Big-time Harper homers in here. This is like Bonds-Giants level homering. Interesting.

 

[Marvelous]

Barry Svrluga's series has been great. A lot about the clubhouse difficulties today. Werth tearing down the lineup card, for one example. Another good quote about Williams:

“He’s like the guy in his house who hears a sound, like someone breaking in,” one player said. “And his reaction isn’t to take care of the problem or investigate. It’s to put his head under the pillow and hope it goes away.”

Does not paint the picture of him as someone who is even a good manager behind the scenes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html

You've read your limit of free articles for this month.

Subscribe?

I have been very critical of Matt Williams's handling of the bullpen. From the Article, during the first Mets seriers where they were swept:

That afternoon, veteran reliever Casey Janssen came down with a neck issue during warmups, and he wasn’t available. Veteran lefty Matt Thornton, though, hadn’t appeared in a game in five days. He was ready. Williams got Thornton up once to warm up but didn’t use him. He got him up again but still didn’t call on him. As the game wore on, Thornton warmed up a third time, then a fourth time. By the time Wilmer Flores led off the 12th with a homer off Rivero, good for a 2-1 Mets win, Thornton had thrown in the bullpen five times.

“Never seen it before,” one Washington reliever said.

Then, in the next game:

In the eighth inning against the Mets, Williams lined up Thornton, the left-hander, to face the left-handed hitting Curtis Granderson, who was leading off. Here was the by-the-book move. Granderson, though, doubled. After an out, Williams ordered Thornton to intentionally walk Cespedes, a right-handed hitter who had extreme “reverse splits” — meaning he hit righties better than lefties — .314 against right-handers, .219 against lefties thus far in 2015. That brought up Duda, who crushed Thornton’s 1-2 pitch to left-center, breaking the tie, providing the Mets with the winning run.

“My job there is to execute the pitch,” Thornton said. “I couldn’t do that, and we lost.”

The Nationals relievers, though, believed there was more to it than that. They believed the five times Thornton got up the previous night affected his ability to execute the pitch to Granderson, the pitch to Duda.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Well, good news. Heyman says he's out for sure. Not that it's any surprise.

Also says Rizzo will be retained. Which is of course welcome news to me, founder and president of the Mike Rizzo Fan Club.

 

[Don Quixote]

My biggest concern about the Heyman piece is that Jay Bell is mentioned as a candidate, and my jokes about Jay Bell here and on Twitter may not be jokes after all.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Would Bo Porter be given an opportunity? I always liked his style as a Nats coach. He wasn't so good dealing with young players, but maybe a veteran club (and one he is familiar with) would be a good fit.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Big-time Harper homers in here. This is like Bonds-Giants level homering. Interesting.

You'd have to be a real k00k to think any reasonable fan would not defend a 22-year-old 10 WAR player over a washed up closer.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Your move, Rizzo

 

[Don Quixote]

There it is...

User Actions
FollowingJames WagnerVerified account‏@JamesWagnerWPThe Nats dismissed Manager Matt Williams this morning, per a person familiar with the situation. Ends two years as manager of Nats.

 

[Don Quixote]

I wasn't expecting this though...

Dan Kolko ‏@masnKolko 1m1 minute ago
Nats' entire coaching staff has also been told their contract will not be renewed. Knorr, McCatty, Schu, Henley, Tarasco, LeCroy, Weidemeier

 

[thayman]

wow wasn't expecting that!

 

[tdog]

I would think it would difficult to bring an experienced manager like Bud Black and not give him the ability to hire or have input on coaches. Sorry to see quality guys McCatty and Knorr go but I would imagine the new guy will want his own pitching and bench coach. Bo Porter was apparently a nut as a manager in Houston but would love for him to come back and coach 3rd again just for the possibility he could get in a fight with someone.

Wonder what we would be doing today if they had hired Knorr two years ago. At least the press conferences would have been more interesting. And why isn't Davey still managing this team? Could have gotten 4-5 years out of him before he imploded.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Phil Nevin first known interview.

 

[Don Quixote]

...Or, if they want to get crazy, maybe Alex Cora as a player-manager, since I think the only reason they have him on the team is to try get him as a manager in the system when he retires.

Posts that were four years too early.

Aside from Cora, it seems like a better crop than were interviewed when Williams was hired. Black, Nevin, and Wotus all seem like solid candidates.

 

[TobiasFunke]

...Or, if they want to get crazy, maybe Alex Cora as a player-manager, since I think the only reason they have him on the team is to try get him as a manager in the system when he retires.

Posts that were four years too early.

Aside from Cora, it seems like a better crop than were interviewed when Williams was hired. Black, Nevin, and Wotus all seem like solid candidates.

I agree, but I have no idea why they won't bring Dave Martinez back in. How much more do we need to see before the old school baseball folks are finally willing to accept the obvious fact that Maddon's unconventional approach works?

 

[Don Quixote]

...Or, if they want to get crazy, maybe Alex Cora as a player-manager, since I think the only reason they have him on the team is to try get him as a manager in the system when he retires.

Posts that were four years too early.

Aside from Cora, it seems like a better crop than were interviewed when Williams was hired. Black, Nevin, and Wotus all seem like solid candidates.

I agree, but I have no idea why they won't bring Dave Martinez back in. How much more do we need to see before the old school baseball folks are finally willing to accept the obvious fact that Maddon's unconventional approach works?

Yeah, it would make sense to bring him in. It's possible Rizzo is waiting until the Cubs are done with the playoffs.

 

[larch]

Nats to interview Dusty Baker and Ron Gardenhire:

http://m.nationals.mlb.com/news/article/154349692/nationals-may-interview-baker-gardenhire

How will Strasburg survive actually pitching into the seventh inning?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Well if they hire Dusty at least I know I'll never have to shell out a bunch of cash for World Series tickets. :glassishalffull:

 

[Da Guru]

Well if they hire Dusty at least I know I'll never have to shell out a bunch of cash for World Series tickets. :glassishalffull:

Leyland??

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Well if they hire Dusty at least I know I'll never have to shell out a bunch of cash for World Series tickets. :glassishalffull:

Leyland??

I'm not sure he's on the market but he's waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy better than Dusty ####### Baker.

 

[valhallan]

Leyland. No-question gray hair in the 91 Topps set.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Thoughts on Mattingly? He's available now

 

[Don Quixote]

Mattingly would be solid. Not the best tactician, but seems to handle everything else well. Would be a good hire if they could bring Wallach too, but he might get a gig in his own right. The latest is that the Nats interviewed Wallach for the job. Dodgers might look at him to replace Mattingly too.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Rotoworld says Bud Black and Dusty Baker are the two finalists. Come on Bud Black.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Rotoworld says Bud Black and Dusty Baker are the two finalists. Come on Bud Black.

No to Mattingly. One of my favorite players ever but he mishandled a lot of player related situations in LA. He needs to go somewhere with much less pressure. Not saying DC is LA or New York, but it isn't Houston or Miami either.

I've always liked Black, I think an even-keeled guy with a pretty good history of in-game decision making is what they need. I ####### hate Baker, he's the opposite of pizza and high-end strippers.

 

[Don Quixote]

Wagner reporting that it's Black.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Wagner reporting that it's Black.

It's official, thank baby Jesus.

 

[Swing 51]

Too early for "Always bet on Black!" ??

 

[Limp Ditka]

Too early for "Always bet on Black!" ??

But Dusty lost?

 

[Eephus]

I guess this counts as a black manager considering MLB's dismal record in this area

 

[Don Quixote]

I guess this counts as a black manager considering MLB's dismal record in this area

With Andy Green being hired in SD, I would say that makes two managers of color hired this offseason, but I won't, because that might be offensive.

 

[Don Quixote]

WTF? Heyman:

In a stunning twist, the Nationals manager job still isn't completely settled, and may still go to Dusty Baker, and not Bud Black.

The team was actually apparently leaning toward Baker today, according to people familiar with the situation.

There were believed to be be contract issues with Black, although the team liked Baker very much from the star.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

WTF? Heyman:

In a stunning twist, the Nationals manager job still isn't completely settled, and may still go to Dusty Baker, and not Bud Black.

The team was actually apparently leaning toward Baker today, according to people familiar with the situation.

There were believed to be be contract issues with Black, although the team liked Baker very much from the star.

Strasburg and Ross should just go ahead and schedule arm surgeries if Baker is hired. They need to get the Black deal done.

 

[Don Quixote]

Yeah, hopefully/maybe they are just leaking this for leverage with Black, and they end up reaching a deal with him.

Such a cluster**** though. I'm not sure how/why they leaked Black if the deal was not done.

 

[Don Quixote]

I can't really blame Black... Such weird line drawings on money with the Lerners, between this and handcuffing payroll during the season.

The Nationals, according to a person with knowledge of the talks, offered Black a two-year deal for less than $2 million, and he never budged. Black informed the Nationals ownership several days ago that he couldnt accept a deal, which is considerably lower than he anticipated.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I'm still betting on black

 

[Good Posting Judge]

This is a Marlins-level fiasco.

 

[Swing 51]

Looks like its official, Baker named as manager.

 

[hammerva]

Such a lazy retread hire by the Nationals. His history speaks for himself. Most of his teams are usually good enough for a playoff win or two but that is it. Nobody looked at his Reds and Cubs teams and thought NLCS or World Series.

Basically they just hired a manager in the hopes that he leaves the team alone and doesn't #### anything up like Williams. Terrible strategy in my opinion

 

[JZilla]

Oh well. It was fun while it was fun.

 

[larch]

What is Strasburg going to do now since he doesn't know how to pitch longer than five to six innings?

At least he won't get babied now.