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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Nationals ongoing thread (1 Viewer)

Don Quixote said:
Last night was a bit of a gut punch between Herrera blowing it to be followed by likely hitting the DL.  Need this one today so can at least split the series.  I have more faith in Milone than Gio right now.
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They should have sold.  There isnt enough pitching to win.  

 
This team's ability to stay on the fringes of contention but also never really make up any ground is exhausting.  #### or get off the pot, 2018 Washington Nationals.

 
TobiasFunke said:
This team's ability to stay on the fringes of contention but also never really make up any ground is exhausting.  #### or get off the pot, 2018 Washington Nationals.
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There's a decent chance of that happening this weekend with Nats playing the Cubs and the Phillies against the Padres.  They are what they are at this point -- marginally above mediocre and good enough to float around/above .500, but not much better than that.  I think it was Dave Jageler who tweeted a stat yesterday about how the Nats have not won a series against a team currently above .500 since early May.

 
Don Quixote said:
There's a decent chance of that happening this weekend with Nats playing the Cubs and the Phillies against the Padres.  They are what they are at this point -- marginally above mediocre and good enough to float around/above .500, but not much better than that.  I think it was Dave Jageler who tweeted a stat yesterday about how the Nats have not won a series against a team currently above .500 since early May.
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The flip side of this argument is that the Nats have a better run differential than the Phillies and are only two behind the Braves.  Obviously there are reasons that the Nats are underperforming- the manager's strategic mistakes costing them close games foremost among them IMO. But I do think they're basically on the same level as those two teams.

This midwest road trip over the next week is pretty rough, but if they can maybe go 4-3 things open up for them a bit after that. I figure if they get to 88 or 89 wins there's a good chance they'll be in the mix for some kind of playoff spot, either division or wild card. 29-18 the rest of the way gets them to 88 wins. Difficult, but not so much that I can ignore them and do more productive things with my time.

 
Soto got picked off twice today, and that’s three times this week. The first one was a mistake a teenager makes, just got caught leaning.

The second one came with two on and no outs in the 8th down one. He took a secondary lead off first and the Cubs will try the pickoff after the pitch every game (remember Lobaton in game 5 last year). So I would hope he was warned about this by the coaching staff. 

Eaton took him aside and made it a teaching moment as Soto was visibly upset with himself, but that’s the part of the game that is too fast for him right now. Nothing at the plate is, he’s rarely fooled. He’s ok in LF but will only get better, no issue there. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Rizzo needs to be held accountable for this bullpen mess. 
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Yeah, a lot of people seem to be getting on Martinez's case for saying that he "doesn't know what else to do" after the game last night (comparing it to when Boudreau was canned).  A lot of things to blame Martinez for, but when the top 5 guys in your bullpen (after the Herrera trade) are either hurt or have been dealt for peanuts, not really sure Martinez can be blamed for that.  Hopefully, there are less anonymously sourced quotes about the team being leaked to the press though.

I'll blame Martinez for the night before and being in the dark and/or not finding out what was wrong with Madson though.

 
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Don Quixote said:
Yeah, a lot of people seem to be getting on Martinez's case for saying that he "doesn't know what else to do" after the game last night (comparing it to when Boudreau was canned).  A lot of things to blame Martinez for, but when the top 5 guys in your bullpen (after the Herrera trade) are either hurt or have been dealt for peanuts, not really sure Martinez can be blamed for that.  Hopefully, there are less anonymously sourced quotes about the team being leaked to the press though.

I'll blame Martinez for the night before and being in the dark and/or not finding out what was wrong with Madson though.
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Since he threw Solis under the bus less than a week ago, I'll blame him for choosing Solis over Grace to face Carpenter, who is as hot as any hitter in baseball.   And for a guy that claims to be all about analytics he apparently isn't familiar with Solis against lefties.

When he threw Madson under the bus for not communicating his injury he said he could have put Miller in the game to close it.  If that's true then Miller probably shouldn't have been pitching in the 7th last night and saved for the 8th/9th.  He also says he wants to get Suero in more important situations but brought him in the 5th.  But you are correct he's not to blame for Doolittle and Herrera being hurt, Kintzler being an ###, or Kelley trying to fight the GM in the clubhouse.

in addition to base running being poor, it feels like (no stats to back this up) this team is terrible with runners on 3rd and less than 2 out.  Harper hits into a DP last night when a fly ball would have been a great AB to get an insurance run.   Then Difo couldn't get the runner home in the 9th.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Since he threw Solis under the bus less than a week ago, I'll blame him for choosing Solis over Grace to face Carpenter, who is as hot as any hitter in baseball.   And for a guy that claims to be all about analytics he apparently isn't familiar with Solis against lefties.

When he threw Madson under the bus for not communicating his injury he said he could have put Miller in the game to close it.  If that's true then Miller probably shouldn't have been pitching in the 7th last night and saved for the 8th/9th.  He also says he wants to get Suero in more important situations but brought him in the 5th.  But you are correct he's not to blame for Doolittle and Herrera being hurt, Kintzler being an ###, or Kelley trying to fight the GM in the clubhouse.

in addition to base running being poor, it feels like (no stats to back this up) this team is terrible with runners on 3rd and less than 2 out.  Harper hits into a DP last night when a fly ball would have been a great AB to get an insurance run.   Then Difo couldn't get the runner home in the 9th.
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Grace is definitely better than Solis, but, from what I read, they were saving Grace as a potential long reliever with Gio going today.  Maybe they should have tossed that plan out and worried about today, today, but I can see why they didn't bring in Grace.  They probably would have kept Miller in versus going to Solis if Miller had not been stinking up the joint himself.  Suero pitched great, and moving him to later in the game just seems to switch around when the Nats would have had issues.

We'll probably never know the truth, but everything that I've read suggests Rizzo fingered Kintzler as the source and got that wrong.

 
Don Quixote said:
Grace is definitely better than Solis, but, from what I read, they were saving Grace as a potential long reliever with Gio going today.  Maybe they should have tossed that plan out and worried about today, today, but I can see why they didn't bring in Grace.  They probably would have kept Miller in versus going to Solis if Miller had not been stinking up the joint himself.  Suero pitched great, and moving him to later in the game just seems to switch around when the Nats would have had issues.

We'll probably never know the truth, but everything that I've read suggests Rizzo fingered Kintzler as the source and got that wrong.
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Solis is gone likely to minors not cut.  Madson to DL too.  Gott and Collins are back.  Lol at bullpen right now.  

 
9 Games out.  Time to attempt to sell off anyone you can get a decent prospect with the team that makes the waiver claim. Start with Murphy and Adams and gio.  Madson and Herrera as soon as they get healthy.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
9 Games out.  Time to attempt to sell off anyone you can get a decent prospect with the team that makes the waiver claim. Start with Murphy and Adams and gio.  Madson and Herrera as soon as they get healthy.  
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Murphy has been pretty hot lately, so he might get a better return than he would have at the trade deadline.  I'm not sure what they would be able to get for the others, but, yeah, it's over.  I admitted to reality after Gio gave up the homer to Gant the other night. It felt kind of liberating.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
9 Games out.  Time to attempt to sell off anyone you can get a decent prospect with the team that makes the waiver claim. Start with Murphy and Adams and gio.  Madson and Herrera as soon as they get healthy.  
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You would be lucky to get a bucket of balls for Gio Gonzalez.

 
Nats have made 47 errors this year, the lowest in the league. They were given a gift by the Gods in Juan Soto, they have Harper, Scherzer, Rendon, and Turner. Michael Taylor and Matt Adams have had good years as Role players, and Eaton and Murphy look fine now. 

The starting pitching has been not so good, and not having Stars has hurt. But this team has a championship makeup, and the execution has been horrible.

Some of that is Martinez’s fault but I think he’s had to shoulder a little too much blame. Tactically he’s managed the team just fine, but I don’t like his constant lineup shuffling when the team gets hot. Can’t blame him for Roark and Gio, or for the injuries. 

Soto is now 6 for his last 36. He’s played in more games this year than he has in his other years combined. I’d probably start giving him a day off every five or six days, I think those days for a kid are valuable just for some learning from the bench. They are pretty much done now barring a miracle, they need to tread lightly with the future. 

 
Don Quixote said:
Murphy has been pretty hot lately, so he might get a better return than he would have at the trade deadline.  I'm not sure what they would be able to get for the others, but, yeah, it's over.  I admitted to reality after Gio gave up the homer to Gant the other night. It felt kind of liberating.
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Has Murphy cleared waivers? I’m assuming so but didn’t read that anywhere. I have been up in the great white north for two weeks, and although I’ve listened to most of the games, I’m definitely out of the news loop. 

Oh not sure if anyone was following the Cicada saga on the Nats radio booth the past two days, but it was pretty hilarious. 

 
So Bobby Henley the Nats OF coach was interviewed about Juan Soto’s outfield play. 

He wants video of all the caroms at whatever ballpark and wants to go out early to get a feel for the bounces. Henly says he’s never seen a kid so studious about fielding. 

Soto can hit like very few can, and he’s also wanting to learn everything to make himself better. 

 
I don't know all the waiver rules for post 8/1 trading but just saw on twitter that once you put a guy through waivers you have 48 hours to trade him to the team that claimed him.   Why would the Nats put Harper, Murphy, Adams, Gio, and Reynolds on waivers right before the Phillies series?  They have until this afternoon to deal these guys but they aren't trading them before this series.  Why not wait until Friday and see if Phily put you out of your misery or by some chance you climb to within 4.5 or 5.5?

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I don't know all the waiver rules for post 8/1 trading but just saw on twitter that once you put a guy through waivers you have 48 hours to trade him to the team that claimed him.   Why would the Nats put Harper, Murphy, Adams, Gio, and Reynolds on waivers right before the Phillies series?  They have until this afternoon to deal these guys but they aren't trading them before this series.  Why not wait until Friday and see if Phily put you out of your misery or by some chance you climb to within 4.5 or 5.5?
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Trade rules post July 31st deadline:

• It's important to note that teams expose most of their players, except those on the disabled list, to revocable waivers at some point during August. So that act, by itself, does not mean much, as there is no risk involved.

• When a player is on waivers, other teams can submit a claim. If more than one team does, those in the same league as that player's team get first priority, starting with the club with the worst record on the day of the claim. Then, the priority moves to the other league, starting with the worst record. For example, if a National League team puts a player on waivers, the NL team with the worst record gets the first shot at him, and the last-place American League club would be right behind the top NL club.

• Once a player is claimed, his team faces three options. It can pull the player back and keep him, negotiate a trade with the claiming team or let the player go. In the last scenario, the claiming team takes full responsibility for the player's remaining salary. If the two sides decide to work out a trade, they have two days to do so.

• If a player goes unclaimed for two days, he "passes through" waivers. His team then can trade him to any other team for the rest of the season, unless he has a no-trade clause, a limited no-trade provision or 10/5 rights (10 years in the Majors, five consecutive years with his current team).

• Players dealt after Aug. 31 are not eligible to participate in the Postseason.

• A team can pull a player back from waivers only once. So if a player is pulled back, but then placed on waivers a second time and claimed, his rights go to the team that is awarded the claim.

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
I don't know all the waiver rules for post 8/1 trading but just saw on twitter that once you put a guy through waivers you have 48 hours to trade him to the team that claimed him.   Why would the Nats put Harper, Murphy, Adams, Gio, and Reynolds on waivers right before the Phillies series?  They have until this afternoon to deal these guys but they aren't trading them before this series.  Why not wait until Friday and see if Phily put you out of your misery or by some chance you climb to within 4.5 or 5.5?
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They would still have to catch the Braves too.  It's over.  Longer they wait, more chances for other teams to fall out of contention and limit options.

 
Passan saying Adams to the Cards, and close to a deal with the Cubs on Murphy.

ETA: Murphy now a done deal.  

 
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Exactly what the good Dr.D said. If they trade him, that likely makes it harder to re-sign him. If they keep him they tag him with a QO and collect the first round draft compensation when he goes. That pick is worth more than some scrub, so teams would have to offer a compelling package even now. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Because they want to consider re-signing him. They get a first rounder if he leaves, maybe better than what they’d get at this point. 

They got a MIFer for Murphy. 
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They don’t get a first if he goes. They changed the rules on that. Because they are above the luxury tax threshold, I think it is now after the fourth round.

 
Don Quixote said:
They don’t get a first if he goes. They changed the rules on that. Because they are above the luxury tax threshold, I think it is now after the fourth round.
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They screwed this up at the end of July.  Well, sounds like Lerner screwed it up not Rizzo.  But can't change that now.  

I can't get over the awful bullpen management.  I get wanting specialists to get an out here and an out there.  But Davey uses 5 pitchers to get 9 outs almost every night even knowing that the next starter is unlikely to give them more than 5-6 innings (Hellickson, Jeffrey Rodriguez, Fedde, bad Roark, Gio most nights, or Strasburg coming off the DL).  The injuries have been a factor but I still think Davey has no clue how to manage that pitching staff.  

 
Don Quixote said:
They don’t get a first if he goes. They changed the rules on that. Because they are above the luxury tax threshold, I think it is now after the fourth round.
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Not sure if that’s the case. They just got money back for the guys they traded, let’s see if that’s the reason all this went down. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Not sure if that’s the case. They just got money back for the guys they traded, let’s see if that’s the reason all this went down. 
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I think Rizzo said at his press conference the other day that the trades would not put them under.  I remember reading some article around the trade deadline that they would have to trade those guys plus Harper to get even close to under it (which I think I linked here), and that was based on numbers a month ago; so, it seems consistent with that.

ETA: Zuckerman tweet on Rizzo.

 
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Don Quixote said:
I think Rizzo said at his press conference the other day that the trades would not put them under.  I remember reading some article around the trade deadline that they would have to trade those guys plus Harper to get even close to under it (which I think I linked here), and that was based on numbers a month ago; so, it seems consistent with that.

ETA: Zuckerman tweet on Rizzo.
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Could dumping Gio, Madson, and Herrera get them under?  Have those guys even been put through waivers yet?

 
I know it is a small sample size, but watching Murphy this past week reminds me of a quote I heard Andy Griffith say about Don Knotts joining the cast of his show: he was a missing piece that we hadn't even known was missing.

The Cubs stellar run differential is a bit misleading. They can bludgeon teams, especially weak bullpens (which is a reason why they have so many comeback wins), but they can also be stymied by control pitchers who can get them to chase out of the zone. They had a stretch where they scored five runs in five games.

Joe putting Murphy in the leadoff spot is brilliant. The way he takes pitches, goes the other way, but can also drive (2 HR's so far), seems to have had an immediate impact on the lineup. The tone feels different, the at-bats look more patient.

Again, small sample-size. I don't expect a .395 average for the rest of the year, but so far this was an awesome deal by Theo/Jed.

 
Apparently Gio and Madson could be dealt by Friday as both cleared waivers.  I'd let both go for anything you can get for them at this point.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sean Doolittle is a national treasure, no pun intended.
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Sean Doolittle
‏@whatwouldDOOdo

I can’t believe I have to clarify this but I was just joking. While I am extremely in favor of players having fun and showing emotion I do not think that they should hit a homerun off me...that would be bad.

:sadbanana:

 
There was a lot of talk that Martinez overworked the bullpen by having guys warm up repeatedly and then not using them.  He also relied heavily on the better bullpen arms.  So halfway into the season, Madson, Kinzler, and Doodlittle were all leading MLB in innings thrown.  And then they bullpen suffers a rash of injuries.  

Many will see cause and effect here.

 
Rizzo getting started early

Mark Zuckerman‏Verified account @MarkZuckerman 2m2 minutes ago

Nats have acquired reliever Kyle Barraclough from the Marlins for international slot bonus money. Experienced late-inning reliever joins the bullpen.

 
They need to get Corbin, Keuchal or another middle of rotation lefty. Barraclough is a good addition, they need at least two more relievers. 

Try to ink Rendon longterm, he’s the jelly that shakes the lineup and a safe player to be above average at worst, for five to seven years. 

Consider a vet infielder, probably at 2B. Bring in a 1B platoon, they are a dime a dozen. 

They have a bunch of MIF prospects coming up in the next two to three years, but they do lack organizational pitching debt. 

 
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