***Official*** Washington Redskins 2013 Thread (1 Viewer)

[MattFancy]

So the big question: why are the Redskins (presumably Shanahan) leaking stories to the media? It does not serve anyone.

Shanahan is polishing his image in "every place that doesn't follow the Redskins". And look at the suckup coverage he's getting from friends in the national sports media like Schefter and Silver. They reach a lot more people than do Tandler and Keim and Sheehan (who surprisingly is on Shanahan's ### about this).

He's a lying sack of #### trying to polish his reputation among people who don't follow him much.

I think he's trying to, but I don't think anyone is buying it. I mean the guys on NFL Network were ripping him to shreds last night. You have John Madden call him out, seems like most guys on Rotoworld also think it's ridiculous as well. Seems like outside of his mouthpieces, no one is taking his side.

 

[fatness]

Shaun King

Matt Ryan and Eli Manning are on $100 million deals, their teams are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs and you don’t see their coaches holding press conferences saying they’re going to sit them to avoid injury. Part of becoming a franchise quarterback is proving to your teammates that when your organization goes through turbulent times, they can still depend on you to be there, to still lead, to still prepare, and still be the captain of the ship. Mike Shanahan has taken that away from RG3 to spite him, and he’s done it because their last three opponents (ATL, DAL, and NYG) are all in the bottom six in sacking the quarterback and all not very good on defense. So, this is tailor made for Kirk Cousins to come in and look good, then Shanahan can go into the off-season saying it’s not me, it’s not my system, it’s RG3.

 

[fatness]

Lou Riddick, former director or player personnel for the Redskins

Everyone’s looking at Dan and the continuous change that’s taken place there every few years. If you look at Shanahan’s track record, is it not documented that generally speaking he’s considered someone who makes things personal and takes things to a new level when it comes to having relationships that end badly with specific players? From the outside looking in it seems very much so. You hear that it can become very personal with him and it crosses the line from being professional to personal and from different things we’ve heard, it has become personal. He may have let some of this get out of control even though he knew he could have done things to reign in this whole Robert Griffin is too entitled and coddled line at an earlier time and he didn’t do enough to get it under control and this is the result, this kind of theatrics and drama. The other role is he’s had control of this team for four years and this happened under his watch and he controlled everything. Everyone in that building that I know says he has exercised final say over everything. So to not have a line that can protect this kid, to not have constructed or put together a defense from a personnel perspective that can give them a fighting chance to stay in games and to have the offense become something it’s not good at, which is a dropback passing offense, that’s his fault. And for allowing the never-ending series of press conferences and offseason to become a back and forth, almost like a tennis match, between him and Robert. Mike has final say to football operations and he could have put an end to that. Now, even though you’ve given contractual control to Mike doesn’t mean Dan can’t have a negative influence. I was there when Marty had control over everything and things got ugly then, too. But at the same time the head coach can’t turn around and start playing this through back channels and laying it at the feet of the owner, either. [Shanahan] is more responsible for the product on the field, more than responsible. It’s him.

 

[MattFancy]

Fantess posting these last 2 articles is proving my point. Shanny's BS spin on it is not catching on with the media. No one is buying the crap he's trying to sell.

 

[fatness]

John Madden:

•"I do know this: when the going goes tough, you don't quit. And you don't fold up. And you don't go in the other direction. I think you stay with what you believe you stay with who you are, you stay with what you are.”

•"We have an integrity piece here, too. You can say, 'Well they're 3-10, they're out of it, so now they can do these things.' No you can’t. This is still regular-season football. Draft order, that's one small thing, but you still owe it to the people that are playing, that are still in the playoff picture. And when you can affect that and you don't affect it with an all-out performance, then I think that affects the integrity of the game.”

•"I mean, you know it's baloney. I like Mike Shanahan, and I'm not talking behind his back, but when you say something like that, you know that's not right –you’re not going to sacrifice regular-season games. There's only 16 of them a year. You're not going to sacrifice regular-season games for an offseason program."

 

[fatness]

Mike and Kyle Shanahan shut down the lines of communication and violated their quarterback’s trust. Robert Griffin III never demanded changes, never went behind their backs to cry to Dan to get them to listen. He simply asked for them to grant him the same respect that he was supposed to give him. When RGIII expressed his desire to not run the read-option following his LCL injury in 2012, Kyle Shanahan still called those plays, and did so with gusto. When RGIII again broached that topic in 2013, following “knee gate”, he was once again rebuffed. Say what you will about RGIII’s Dad’s loud, public complaining; when RGIII went to coaches like a man to ask for changes, those changes were most or less disregarded.

K C Clyburn

 

[fatness]

Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk

“ To me, this undermines your leadership role,” Warner said. “How do I lead my guys when you don’t even let me go out on the field and go to battle with them?”

“This is so wrong in so many ways, what Mike Shanahan is doing,” Marshall Faulk then said. “Understand this: there’s some other people that you can pull. Your offensive line, those hits, why aren’t you benching any of those guys? Let’s just talk about the playcaller: why hasn’t he had the plays taken away from him, or the ability to call the plays? There’s so many fingers to be pointed, and when you start with the one guy that’s dynamic, that’s your leader, that’s the face of your franchise, it’s a power play. That’s what it begins, it begins a power play. I guarantee you this would not have happened [in Denver], with John Elway. No way no how he would have pulled John Elway and said we want to rest John, we don’t want to get him hurt.”

Michael Irvin. I heard he was really worked up about it.

“I’ve always spoke highly and thought highly of Mike Shanahan,” Irvin said. “Check the tapes, go back as far as you want. But I’m so disappointed in what I’m seeing. This is personal, and I don’t care what you say. And there’s no way, no way, you sit your quarterback RGIII in his second season. We all know that Cam Newton went through a second season that wasn’t quite what it [could have been], but look at what Cam’s doing now. It is amazing to me. And here’s something nobody is talking about: This is the third person that Mike Shanahan has had an issue with that was a star player with the Washington Redskins. I understand, coaches come in and they want to grab control, and they usually go after a star player to get control. Donovan, Albert Haynesworth – say what you will, say what you will – and now RGIII.

“RGIII’s handling it the best he can,” Irvin continued. “Donovan said something like this was going to go down, so I’m not giving Mike Shanahan a pass when somebody predicted what’s happening right now to this young man. You are TEARING HIM DOWN. I doubt that any man can come back from this, walking around three weeks around these guys that you have to lead. And I don’t want to hear about teammates either; we understand as teammates and players, quarterbacks DO get special treatment. You don’t see people arguing when Peyton Manning or Tom Brady gets it; I don’t want you arguing when this kid gets it. He’s the quarterback, and the rest of us brothers have to understand that and treat him as such. I’ve got an issue with all of it. … You think they could do this to Andrew Luck? Let me ask you that, you think they could do this to Luck?”

“If this was based on play, then guess what, you’ve got a lot of other players you should be replacing as well,” Faulk said. “You want to know why nobody would say this about Andrew Luck? Because the organization would get rid of that somebody. Listen, we know stuff about quarterbacks. We know stuff about quarterbacks. People know stuff about star players. And it doesn’t leave the locker room. And if it does, THAT PERSON leaves the locker room, who let that out.”

Deion Sanders stuck up for Shanahan.

 

[fatness]

Wow. Jason La Canfora is just killing Shanahan.

La Canfora was asked by Don Geronimo on 106.7 The Fan if he’d ever seen a team fall apart in such an entertaining way like the Redskins this week.

What began as La Canfora at a loss for words in describing the madness surrounding Redskins Park, quickly evolved into a three-minute tongue-lashing of Shanahan, with La Canfora poking holes in every excuse the Redskins’ head coach has given himself as to why his team has failed him in 2013, with particular regard for the report claiming Snyder has undermined Shanahan’s power. He really left no stone unturned here.

“No, it’s bizarre, it’s absolutely bizarre theater,” La Canfora told Geronimo. “It’s like must-see TV. If their games were half as compelling as their press conferences, they’d be alright. I’ve never seen anything like it, Don. You have a guy who is, I’ve never seen anyone so willing to just passively aggressively push an owner’s buttons, try to keep moving the meter, begging this guy to fire him. It’s unbelievable.”

“I feel bad for Dan Snyder and I covered that team for a while, and I think it would shock a lot of people to say that, but I truly feel like he pretty much came as close as he maybe could ever come to doing it the right way, still somewhat on his terms, and it has become a complete abomination.

“And the idea that he is the primary perpetrator blows my mind, because there are plenty of people in that building who don’t like Dan Snyder, who feel like in the past he’s really, really messed stuff up, being even those guys were like ‘Dude, Dan was at arm’s length for this whole regime.’ Dan heard from Mike what Mike wanted to tell him. And Dan would have to go through Bruce sometimes to get information back-and-forth to Mike, and it was just a very cold business relationship.

“And Mike had an ironclad contract. And if Mike didn’t want a certain guy in the building, if Mike didn’t want a certain trade to be made – whether it be for the 53rd man on the roster or absolutely for the starting quarterback – there was no way it was gonna happen. And if you tried to usurp his power, and you tried to circumvent his contract, or tried to do something on the personnel side without him okay’ing it, then he would have that contract to show to his lawyer and say ‘Fire me right now then.’

“And back when the RGIII trade was made, it would have been $21 million left on his deal. ‘Okay Dan, you want to make this trade, great. I’m not cool with it, so we need to have a talk about how we move forward.’

“I mean, this guy had complete control of the organization to the point where his son is the offensive coordinator, he gets his son a $1.5 million contract just for 2014, money that he’ll get paid to do nothing, it’s all cronyism up and down the staff. It’s a one-man army, and now suddenly that it’s fallen apart, it was everybody else but Mike Shanahan. Okay.”

 

[MattFancy]

I read the LaCanfora piece when it came out last night. I've never been a fan of his, but it's hard to argue with what he wrote.

 

[fatness]

If you've been following along at home this week as the doomed relationship between coach Mike Shanahan and quarterback Robert Griffin III fractured publicly and irrevocably in a series of bizarre soap-opera inspired news conferences, here's where we now stand:

No, the coach and quarterback are not, like, you know, close-close friends. Yes, a year after playing Griffin when he was hurt, Shanahan has now decided to sit him now that he's fully healthy. Yes, he recently said what Griffin needs is reps. No, he didn't mean it. Yes, his name is Kirk Cousins. No, I have no idea who that is. No, Shanahan swears he's not trying to get fired to collect his $7 million 2014 salary. Yes, he's being honest. No, it's not normal for him. Yes, most of this is Dan Snyder's fault.

No, this most certainly will not end well.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10122569/flem-file-rating-coach-qb-relationships-shannys

 

[hammerva]

Right now the only person who seems to be defending Shanny who doesn't have the same last name is Joe Theisman of all people. he agrees with benching RG3 and believes that Shanny should be the head coach next year. It is odd that Joey T is actually taking the side of the coach since he has always been a complete kiss ### to Richie Rich.

 

[Marvelous]

My quick opinion on RGIII: he is playing really bad, based on what I see and what other people are saying.

A few weeks ago, Chris Cooley said it is difficult to grade out the OL since they just don't know where RGIII will be on any given play. He further went on to say that if a tackle and make an outside rusher go 10 yards into the backfield, that a win for the tackle. But on many plays, RGIII will be further back rather than stepping into the pocket, so a sack occurs.

Mark Schlereth said that the pick against KC is football 101. Deeper guy covered, throw to the short guy. RGIII forced the throw and was intercepted. That play and coverage was probably covered the first week he was a Redskin.

I have no idea if sitting RGIII is the right move. I think playing him to the end of the season is the norm and I cannot think of another franchise QB who was benched in his developmental process and later become the franchise QB with the same team.

As far as replacing Haslett and Burns, those are offseason issues. I don't think there is much to do about it now. Also on Burns, Mike Shanahan hired an inexperienced special teams coach. If Burns is struggling, Shanahan's job is to help him and show him how to be good. Works that way in every business. So even though Burns is new and the special teams suck in epic fashion, this is 100% on Mike Shanahan. And maybe 50% Keith Burns.

Haslett is a veteran with tons of experience. He should be doing better.

 

[fatness]

Washington is right on Houston's heels for the worst record in the NFL and the handling of the quarterback situation — Kirk Cousins will start the last three weeks — has made the organization a total laughingstock, the sort of perception Snyder was looking to change when the mercurial owner hired Shanahan almost four years ago and handed him the keys to the franchise.

Granted, Shanahan has done some things to restore a modicum of credibility, which was totally lacking when he arrived due to Snyder's meddling. But the fact remains: Shanahan's record in the nation's capital is a lousy 24-37, with one quick exit from the playoffs.

In a few weeks, Shanahan will surely be fired by Washington.

Also keep in mind: Shanahan made this move with Washington closing out against the Falcons (3-10 and ranked 27th in total defense), the Cowboys (dead last in yards allowed) and the disappointing New York Giants (playing out the string). If Cousins plays well — and he very well could — Shanahan will surely look to parlay his Washington exit into another coaching job.

Where does Washington go from here? If Snyder is wise — quit laughing, everyone — he'll pass on those suggesting he hire Griffin's coach at Baylor, Art Briles. Bringing in someone who'll be viewed as RG3's lackey is no way to clean up this mess. And, rest assured, it's a mess. For that, Washington can thank its soon-to-be former coach.

Nice to see so many people see the same things we do. This SOB is sabotaging the team to try to make himself look good enough to hire elsewhere.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/column-mike-shanahan-sets-messy-departure-21214582

 

[fatness]

Right now the only person who seems to be defending Shanny who doesn't have the same last name is Joe Theisman of all people. he agrees with benching RG3 and believes that Shanny should be the head coach next year. It is odd that Joey T is actually taking the side of the coach since he has always been a complete kiss ### to Richie Rich.

Shanahan has one more backer --- Mayor Rob Ford of Toronto. You know, the big fat crack-smoking hilarious drunk guy?

Rob Ford knows football!

 

[fatness]

Very detailed article by Jason La Canfora, including quotes from an NFL exec and present and former members of the Skins organization.

"Everyone in that building knows that Mike has total control," said one former member of the organization. "That was never in doubt. That's never been in doubt. Mike is in charge. He runs that building. He has final say on everything. Dan Snyder isn't sitting in on personnel meetings. Mike tells Dan what he wants to tell Dan. Dan's not picking the quarterback. Mike got it all. He put together the staff, he got all the money, he set his son up."

"He knew what he was getting in to," said one NFL executive who has dealt with the Snyder/Shanahan regime with some frequency. "When you make $35 million, that's part of the hazard pay. If anything, it sounds like now, with it over, Shanahan is using Snyder's reputation against him, but we never got the sense he was dealing with a meddling, overbearing owner."

"Snyder has been out of the way, TOTALLY," as one member of the organization put it to me, emphatically.

And, according to several members of the organization, the level of support and mentorship and guidance he [Griffin] has received from the coaching staff has been starkly lacking. These men describe a fractured relationship between RG3 and the Shanahans, Kyle in particular.

"Robert got the assistant coaches extensions (in 2012) and now that he blew his knee out and quite naturally can't be Superman, they treat and handle him like he's Pat White," one member of the organization said. "Why start a war with a guy who isn't going anywhere and got us from 3-6 to 10-6? They would have been gone last year if not for Robert, but they want all the credit."

 

[fatness]

Yesterday was Alfred Morris's 25th birthday.

Pierre Garcon has at least 5 catches in ever game this year.

 

[ryno1980]

I think there's a halfway decent chance (I'm not giving a percentage because this mess is impossible to make sense of) that Shanahan is back next year. The easy thing to do is kick him while he's down, which the media seems to be enjoying, because of how hard he is to work with on a day-to-day basis. I honestly don't know the situation close enough to have an opinion on whether he deserves to have a job, but that is a lot of money to buy out. It was also an organization in pretty bad shape when he came in. He has done a few good things to better the situation.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/13/report-snyder-not-willing-to-buy-out-shanahan-and-his-staff/

D'Angelo Hall a couple weeks back:

“I absolutely would endorse these guys,” Hall said at Redskins Park. “I think a big part of success is to have some stability. I think anybody who has had success in this league would tell you that. But, like I said, I think the biggest ingredient was just getting the right guys and I think we’ve done that. I think we’ve definitely done that, get the right guys. We had some setbacks over the last couple years with the [salary] cap penalty and things like that. So it’s kind of hard to get a whole lot better. … This season, we’ve just got to finish out as strong as possible; then next year I’m definitely looking forward to this team just being a contender for years to come.”

I also think Shanahan sold Snyder on the fact they could play Cousins in order to make him trade bait to acquire some sort of draft pick.

 

[Kid_kong]

Do you think they follow through with this trade bait idea or is it bogus?

 

[Marvelous]

Do you think they follow through with this trade bait idea or is it bogus?

While trading Cousins for a bounty of draft picks is fun to talk about, it is very unlikely to happen. Cousins simply is not worth that much. We speculated a 2nd or 3rd round pick in next years draft. But unless the package is more substantial than that, I think the Redskins are much more likely to keep Cousins another year.

I actually thought that if the Redskins really were interested in flipping Cousins for a draft pick, they would have drafted another development qb in last years draft. If they draft one this year, that could be a sign they may try to trade Cousins after the 2014 season.

 

[fatness]

The leaks have come in consecutive days from Snyder's side. I had hoped he'd stay away from doing that but here they are.

First leak --- that Snyder will keep Shanahan if he fires Haslett and Kyle or they quit.

Second leak --- that Snyder won't pay the whole coaching staff everything due to them next year to go away.

Both these leaks clearly came from Snyder directly or indirectly.

Summary: These are financial negotiations to determine settlement terms. Shanahan doesn't want to be here. Snyder doesn't want him here. Shanahan wants full pay for next year to go away. Snyder wants to pay him nothing for next year for not coaching.

Snyder knows Shanahan won't fire Kyle, and won't want to stay if he's forced to fire Kyle and Haslett. Snyder's letting it be known that it won't be a full payout when they leave.

Prediction: the entire coaching staff is gone, at a cost somewhere between "nothing" and "full salaries next year".

 

[Bob Magaw]

it seems like the game of chicken resumes.

would snyder bring back shanahan in 2014, just to avoid paying him the final year of his contract.

that would seem like cutting off his nose to spite his face.

what if shanahan decided cousins gave WAS the best chance to win in 2014, and sits RGIII all year with the rationale that snyder jammed the trade down his throat, and he never wanted any part of it anyways. or RGIIIs knee still isn't quite right, and they want to preserve him for 2015? REALLY? (chicken check mate ). not sure snyder wants to get into a "who can be the most treacherous contest" with shanahan. imo, it would be a grave mistake to prolong the agony another year. don't see the WAS fan base allowing themselves to also be effectively used as mass pawns like RGIII in a petty stuggle between shanahan and snyder. if the last three game reaction seems bad, imagine the outrage over such a travesty and mockery for a FULL SEASON. not seeing this hypothetical 2014 scenario transpire. it would sully and tarnish snyder's reputation as much as shanahan, and heavily alienate the fan base.

 

[valhallan]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

 

[valhallan]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

I just think the money is more important to Snyder. Virtually all of his ventures have been abject failures and they're hemorrhaging ticket sales. The leaks and media spin are tough to trust. The Redskins rival the Jets in media drama.

 

[Apple Jack]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

For $7M? He doesn't forget or forgive, but puts up with for one last season? Sure. I wouldn't be surprised to see him finish out his contract.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

I just think the money is more important to Snyder. Virtually all of his ventures have been abject failures and they're hemorrhaging ticket sales.The leaks and media spin are tough to trust. The Redskins rival the Jets in media drama.

i think it is clear in most cases where the leaks are coming from.

isn't it safe to think snyder isn't the source of leaks that synder is a meddler?

and the press conference in which shanahan said all he cares about is the QB position was not a leak, but a blatant and overt shot.

how much money does he lose if he loses the good will of the fans, and they stop caring about the team, going to games, buying merchandise, etc.?

 

[Bob Magaw]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

For $7M? He doesn't forget or forgive, but puts up with for one last season? Sure. I wouldn't be surprised to see him finish out his contract.

if there is an emerging consensus that shanahan is back next year (dubious, imo, but let's play along for fun), and in all his wisdom, if he were to decide cousins gives the team the best chance to win in 2014, snyder is so cheap he would just put up with the external noise and outrage for a complete season, and wait until 2015 for RGIII to be allowed to play again?

 

[Apple Jack]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

For $7M? He doesn't forget or forgive, but puts up with for one last season? Sure. I wouldn't be surprised to see him finish out his contract.

if there is an emerging consensus that shanahan is back next year (dubious, imo, but let's play along for fun), and in all his wisdom, if he were to decide cousins gives the team the best chance to win in 2014, snyder is so cheap he would just put up with the external noise and outrage for a complete season, and wait until 2015 for RGIII to be allowed to play again?

We have enough drama in the here and now without entertaining worst-case hypotheticals. And despite the fact that they desperately need a competent backup for somebody who puts himself in harm's way like RG does, I'd like to see Cousins perform well over the next three weeks and get that value redistributed somewhere it can be put to better use. Like anywhere.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Cousins plays well, they win, Kyle keeps job since the story will now be that it wasn't his scheme, it was Griffin playing poorly. Haslett fired, Burns fired, Shanahan retained. Cousins traded, lots of fluff about Griffin being the unquestioned starter over the offseason.

what about the petty shots at snyder, like the leaks about a meddling owner that coddled a spoiled QB narrative/spin.

or the recent subtle one that all the owner cares about is the QB position (making him come off as superficial and incompetent).

snyder just forgets that, or forgives him?

For $7M? He doesn't forget or forgive, but puts up with for one last season? Sure. I wouldn't be surprised to see him finish out his contract.

if there is an emerging consensus that shanahan is back next year (dubious, imo, but let's play along for fun), and in all his wisdom, if he were to decide cousins gives the team the best chance to win in 2014, snyder is so cheap he would just put up with the external noise and outrage for a complete season, and wait until 2015 for RGIII to be allowed to play again?

We have enough drama in the here and now without entertaining worst-case hypotheticals. And despite the fact that they desperately need a competent backup for somebody who puts himself in harm's way like RG does, I'd like to see Cousins perform well over the next three weeks and get that value redistributed somewhere it can be put to better use. Like anywhere.

not attempting to add drama, but if we are entertaining hypotheticals like shanahan returning next year, it seems like a logical concern. if snyder were to allow this to go into next year, there may not be much he won't allow next year, if his ONLY criteria is to not pay shanahan that $7 million for not working. i realize some find shanhan's stated reason of protecting RGIII is legit. or they think the one he didn't say, performance, is legit. i have a concern he is being spiteful and vindictive to RGIII (it can't have escaped the attention of others that, by all appearances, they seemed to communicate with each other testily and obliquely through the media), and using him as a pawn to stick it to snyder in an effort to bait and goad him into firing shanahan so he can collect $7 million for doing nothing in 2014 (again, we don't think leaks that snyder is a meddlesome owner that coddles his spoiled QB came from snyder... and the passive-aggressive shot at the presser that snyder only cares about QB is clear evidence of an irreparably dysfunctional relationship). just stating the obvious, allowing shanahan to return in 2014 and opening himself to more of these potential shanahanigans would be inexcusable of snyder. don't prolong the agony. this is a WAS thread, but the issue cuts deeper (see madden's quotes about being bad for the integrity of the league).

 

[ryno1980]

would snyder bring back shanahan in 2014, just to avoid paying him the final year of his contract.

It's a much bigger issue than that.

Long term, Dan Snyder wants to be able to say he made a commitment, a five year commitment to a coach, gave him full operational power, and stepped aside, even as the coach was clearly trying to sabotage the issue and get his next job in line.

Short term, Dan Snyder knows if Shanahan goes, that Skins job isn't going to attract top quality candidates, not ones with more options. It would force an entire regime change and a lot of personnel change and force adjustments in terms of the offensive system in place. Is Robert Griffin the answer? You don't figure that out by rotating new O coordinators all the time. This was the situation that kept extending Alex Smith more and more rope in SF, no one was quite sure what they had because there was so much turnover year to year.

Politically, within the league administration, part of the reason coaching salaries have skyrocketed in the last 15 years is because of Dan Snyder himself. He started paying coordinators head coaching money and used his big wallet to drive up the cost of coaching all across the NFL. All you need is one person to outbid himself to start a new precedent for what the "market" holds for coaching compensation. Thus in any mediated dispute left up to the league, Snyder will lose. Won't matter what it is or why or how much cause he has, he will lose. He's paying Shanahan and that staff every cent unless they quit or there is a settlement, but there is ZERO way for Snyder to fire Shanahan, even with good reason, and expect the league to rule in his favor in any arbitration hearing. ZERO. Inside the league, the other owners were furious at Snyder for driving up coaching costs the way he did. Why would a billionaire steal towels from a hotel? If you can answer that question, it's not a hard leap to understand why Snyder is better off getting Shanahan to coach again next year.

Any future failure is Shanahan's, not Snyders, for next year.

Any success was despite Shanahan and his crony son, for next year.

Shanahan has to keep a clean coaching job for next year, and yield on the passive aggressive and "fire me" behavior because he will burn out all his bridges in the league if he keeps it up for a full year. Also he will burn his son's coaching career and those associated with Shanahan through the years.

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

Around the league, from what I'm hearing, the reason Shanahan wants out is not to secure the Texans job for himself. He's arrogant but he's not deaf and blind, he realizes the luster on his star has waned and he doesn't carry the same cache that it did before. Kirk Cousins is pure and simple, as I've discussed before last season and this preseason, is clearly a Kyle Shanahan project. Much in the way Josh McDaniels developed Matt Cassel to the point where he helped parlay that into a head coaching job and Andy Reid, despite all his flaws, developed enough 2nd stringers to parlay into the KC job, if Cousins succeeds in the next three games, it's a feather in Kyle's cap. From what I'm hearing through league back channels, the play was to get Rick Smith to push Kyle Shanahan's name as the new head coach. McNair already knows Shanahan the younger from when he was on Kubiaks staff, he acquitted himself well there and he's more in the mold of what owners are currently looking for - Young, energetic, able to develop the quarterback position, holding offensive pedigree.

The big play was not Elder Shanahan to the Texans as a head coach, the big play was to get Kyle the job and get the Elder into a player personnel role. Sources are telling me that older Shanahan envisions himself as a future "Parcells type" a free range merc who can come in as a team president and rebuild franchises. Part of the delusion apparently is that the rigors of being a head coach ( there are a lot of commitments needed by a head coach that are simply not actual coaching related) has limited the time and energy needed to fully develop as a good personnel man.

Elder Shanahan wants out because there is no guarantee how long Rick Smith will stay with the Texans. Because he's still the GM in place means nothing, if the new head coach McNair hires wants a new GM, then Smith is gone after the draft. Part of the reason Smith isn't gone right now is the new "advisory committee" set up by the NFL, where the league instituted a ruling in 2009 that says all front office jobs must adhere to the Rooney Rule as well. Kid yourself not, what this new advisory committee is going to do is basically demand documented justification on why the franchise didn't hire a black candidate. ( Can we cease pretending that the pro Rooney Rulers out there in the league actually care about the careers of Amy Trask or trying to develop Kim Ng the way MLB did, or if Norm Chow ever gets to be a head coach, or to triumph the achievements of Ron Rivera as an example instead of Mike Tomlin? Can we stop pretending the Rooney Rule is basically a rule for the benefit of blacks in the league and that no one would be sued or fined or torn apart in the press if no one wanted to make a long distance call to interview Norm Chow?) Rick Smith is black, to jettison him now would involved a lengthy process of hiring a new GM, satisfy the new "advisory committee" and still compete with other franchises for the top level candidates.

If Rick Smith pushes Kyle Shanahan's name and he's vetted and McNair takes him, Smith keeps his job, Smith is a Shanahan guy and a Kubiak guy.

If any other major head coaching candidate gets the job, there's a good chance Smith is cleaning out his desk after the draft.

This is not about Rat Face's future coaching career, again he's arrogant and myopic at times, but he's not deaf and dumb and politically incompetent. This is about securing his son in place now because that Texas job will be gone next year, and esp with the odds of Texas getting the first pick, if the Shanahans lock in there, they would entrench for 12-15 years with the right franchise QB1.

Snyder knows this. He's not just looking to save 7 million and his own perception around the league, he's making sure he doesn't have to see a Shanahan on the sideline for 15 years throwing Teddy Bridgewater at his team.

And here's why public league insiders won't just lay this all out for you. I've said this for years and years here - The problem with the current media structure and all the podcasts, blogs, articles, news sites and instant information is that there is NOT enough legitimate NFL news to fill up all that airtime and print space for 24/7/365. It's why part of the sports media subculture focuses on nothing but scandal. It's because people ended up enjoying watching Behind The Music more than the music videos themselves. So when a guy like Sigmund Bloom goes on his podcast and warns you, warns you I say, that you should never trust anyone but guys like him for league news and updates, he's just protecting his cottage industry. The more the sports media holds a veil over your eyes, the more they can trump up controversies and spin articles and time news releases just right. It's not about the milk anymore, it's about grabbing onto those udders and massaging them all day long for all they are worth. La Canfora or Schefter could explain all of this Redskin nonsense very simply to people, but it's good for ratings. And those guys are not just insiders , they are 'information brokers', meaning they have to be political and negotiate for their information. They had to plant false stories at draft time about Team X loving Player Y, because they owe a GM for Tidbit C he gave them last season. They have to write puff pieces to keep the egos of the right people happy and information flowing. They have to sit on a story they have because the Player in question is represented by Agency X or Brand D, who just don't want that information out there, and they often get an exclusive interview in trade for it.

What you hear from public league insiders is what's best for them to tell you. It's not all the information that's really out there. Because the truth is often too simple and not enough of a headline and not enough kindling for talk radio or podcasts.

I'm the worst kind of league insider. I know lots of things and I owe no one anything and I don't work for any of these jack holes. I don't have to write a puff piece or plant something to be traded for later.

This is not just a dispute about Dan Snyder and Mike Shanahan, this is not just about RG3, this is not just about 7 million bucks. It's a much larger issue in scope.

Would Bob McNair hire Kyle Shanahan if given the opportunity to do so? That's the question people should be asking, because everything will fall into place, one way or the other, depending on that answer.

After reading that, I think I've read 10,000 words on this topic and I still don't have a good explanation for why I care.

 

[fatness]

if there is an emerging consensus that shanahan is back next year (dubious, imo, but let's play along for fun), and in all his wisdom, if he were to decide cousins gives the team the best chance to win in 2014, snyder is so cheap he would just put up with the external noise and outrage for a complete season, and wait until 2015 for RGIII to be allowed to play again?

There isn't any consensus that Shanahan will be back next year. Sure, if you follow recent news leaks, it seems that way. But there's none. The only thing happening now is preliminary negotiation (through leaks) of how much Shanahan will be paid when he leaves, which will be shortly after the season is over so the Redskins can pursue other coaches.

Mark Maske, who has talked to multiple people in the Redskins organization.

When Shanahan first raised the possibility Monday of benching Griffin, one person with ties to the team said it appeared Shanahan was trying to provoke Snyder to fire him so he could leave the organization immediately and be paid the remainder of his contract, which runs through next season and is worth about $7 million per year. Shanahan said Wednesday he was not trying to be fired or he would not have consulted Snyder on the Griffin move.

It is believed Shanahan would have to be paid for the rest of his contract if he’s fired. The same is true of Shanahan’s assistants, and multiple people close to the matter said for now Snyder does not appear willing to dismiss the entire staff and pay the full amounts of the contracts, which total an estimated $13 million for Shanahan and the assistants.

Snyder could be waiting to see whether Shanahan will resign, in which case he would forfeit the money due to him, or is willing to accept a buyout for a reduced figure, one of those people said.

It is unclear how long the standoff might continue, and perhaps the only scenario under which Shanahan could remain in place as the team’s coach is if both he and Snyder remain unwilling to budge on the financial issue. But several of those close to the matter said they continue to believe it’s likely Shanahan and the team will part ways shortly after the season ends at the latest.

Speculation about Cousins and Griffin is fun but you have to understand it's all baseless until there's a new coach (and possibly GM).

Speaking of GM, when Shanahan goes I'm thinking Allen will have to go, too. It's likely he has as much or more loyalty to Shanahan than to Snyder, and I can't see the working relationship between Allen and Snyder being based on much trust. There's been nothing in the press about that part; it's just my speculation.

 

[fatness]

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

I don't think you've been paying much attention. Wanting to fire a coach who's gone 5-11, 4-12, 10-6, and 3-10 (so far) isn't desperation. It's common sense. The only reason they went 10-6 last year was because of 2 rookies (Griffin and Morris) who led the team on a 7-0 hot streak. Now the failed coach is blaming one of those rookies for the Redskins' problems. It's quite obvious why the coach has to go.

What's going on now is both sides (Shanahan and Snyder) using press leaks as preliminary settlement negotiations about money.

 

[ryno1980]

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

I don't think you've been paying much attention. Wanting to fire a coach who's gone 5-11, 4-12, 10-6, and 3-10 (so far) isn't desperation. It's common sense. The only reason they went 10-6 last year was because of 2 rookies (Griffin and Morris) who led the team on a 7-0 hot streak. Now the failed coach is blaming one of those rookies for the Redskins' problems. It's quite obvious why the coach has to go.

What's going on now is both sides (Shanahan and Snyder) using press leaks as preliminary settlement negotiations about money.

It's also common sense that his first two years no one was going to succeed in the dumpster fire he inherited.

 

[valhallan]

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

I don't think you've been paying much attention. Wanting to fire a coach who's gone 5-11, 4-12, 10-6, and 3-10 (so far) isn't desperation. It's common sense. The only reason they went 10-6 last year was because of 2 rookies (Griffin and Morris) who led the team on a 7-0 hot streak. Now the failed coach is blaming one of those rookies for the Redskins' problems. It's quite obvious why the coach has to go.

What's going on now is both sides (Shanahan and Snyder) using press leaks as preliminary settlement negotiations about money.

It's also common sense that his first two years no one was going to succeed in the dumpster fire he inherited.

 

[Bob Magaw]

if there is an emerging consensus that shanahan is back next year (dubious, imo, but let's play along for fun), and in all his wisdom, if he were to decide cousins gives the team the best chance to win in 2014, snyder is so cheap he would just put up with the external noise and outrage for a complete season, and wait until 2015 for RGIII to be allowed to play again?

There isn't any consensus that Shanahan will be back next year. Sure, if you follow recent news leaks, it seems that way. But there's none. The only thing happening now is preliminary negotiation (through leaks) of how much Shanahan will be paid when he leaves, which will be shortly after the season is over so the Redskins can pursue other coaches.

Mark Maske, who has talked to multiple people in the Redskins organization.

When Shanahan first raised the possibility Monday of benching Griffin, one person with ties to the team said it appeared Shanahan was trying to provoke Snyder to fire him so he could leave the organization immediately and be paid the remainder of his contract, which runs through next season and is worth about $7 million per year. Shanahan said Wednesday he was not trying to be fired or he would not have consulted Snyder on the Griffin move.

It is believed Shanahan would have to be paid for the rest of his contract if he’s fired. The same is true of Shanahan’s assistants, and multiple people close to the matter said for now Snyder does not appear willing to dismiss the entire staff and pay the full amounts of the contracts, which total an estimated $13 million for Shanahan and the assistants.

Snyder could be waiting to see whether Shanahan will resign, in which case he would forfeit the money due to him, or is willing to accept a buyout for a reduced figure, one of those people said.

It is unclear how long the standoff might continue, and perhaps the only scenario under which Shanahan could remain in place as the team’s coach is if both he and Snyder remain unwilling to budge on the financial issue. But several of those close to the matter said they continue to believe it’s likely Shanahan and the team will part ways shortly after the season ends at the latest.

Speculation about Cousins and Griffin is fun but you have to understand it's all baseless until there's a new coach (and possibly GM).

Speaking of GM, when Shanahan goes I'm thinking Allen will have to go, too. It's likely he has as much or more loyalty to Shanahan than to Snyder, and I can't see the working relationship between Allen and Snyder being based on much trust. There's been nothing in the press about that part; it's just my speculation.

yeah, i don't think there is an emerging consensus that shanahan will be back in 2014, either (which is why i noted thinking that scenario was dubious), but was responding to apple jack, who said he could see exactly that happening. in which case some questions could logically arise about what shanahan might do NEXT year, that he may be doing THIS year (where his motives have been called into question by a lot of people, and considered in play for this thread). if the question wasn't arising because some find it realistic shanahan could be back in 2014 (i find this inconceivable, due to some concerns i've already identified), i wouldn't have brought up attendant questions that flow from that. actually, one difference i have with the above point, i think once a new HC is hired, at THAT point it will be baseless and there won't be any (or shouldn't be) further speculation about RGIIIs role in 2014.

 

[ryno1980]

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

I don't think you've been paying much attention. Wanting to fire a coach who's gone 5-11, 4-12, 10-6, and 3-10 (so far) isn't desperation. It's common sense. The only reason they went 10-6 last year was because of 2 rookies (Griffin and Morris) who led the team on a 7-0 hot streak. Now the failed coach is blaming one of those rookies for the Redskins' problems. It's quite obvious why the coach has to go.

What's going on now is both sides (Shanahan and Snyder) using press leaks as preliminary settlement negotiations about money.

I don't know if Shanahan's blamed Griffin for the problems. He's explained why he's benching him. Whether you believe it or not, he hasn't come out and exaggerated Griffin's demise as a football player or something. His defense sucks, which has obviously been discussed at length. He acknowledges his line sucks. He can't bench his whole line, he'd have done that weeks ago if he had better linemen on hand.

 

[TxBuckeye]

After reading that, I think I've read 10,000 words on this topic and I still don't have a good explanation for why I care.

And yet here you are. Again.

 

[fatness]

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

I don't think you've been paying much attention. Wanting to fire a coach who's gone 5-11, 4-12, 10-6, and 3-10 (so far) isn't desperation. It's common sense. The only reason they went 10-6 last year was because of 2 rookies (Griffin and Morris) who led the team on a 7-0 hot streak. Now the failed coach is blaming one of those rookies for the Redskins' problems. It's quite obvious why the coach has to go.

What's going on now is both sides (Shanahan and Snyder) using press leaks as preliminary settlement negotiations about money.

It's also common sense that his first two years no one was going to succeed in the dumpster fire he inherited.

It's also obvious the Redskins are a dumpster fire now.

 

[Go DC Yourself]

Snyder made his bones in marketing. He knows he can't have this

I'm just not getting this "Snyder desperate to whack Rat Face" talk. If that was true, Shanahan wouldn't need to go through these lengths in the press to get himself clipped.

I don't think you've been paying much attention. Wanting to fire a coach who's gone 5-11, 4-12, 10-6, and 3-10 (so far) isn't desperation. It's common sense. The only reason they went 10-6 last year was because of 2 rookies (Griffin and Morris) who led the team on a 7-0 hot streak. Now the failed coach is blaming one of those rookies for the Redskins' problems. It's quite obvious why the coach has to go.

What's going on now is both sides (Shanahan and Snyder) using press leaks as preliminary settlement negotiations about money.

It's also common sense that his first two years no one was going to succeed in the dumpster fire he inherited.

It's also obvious the Redskins are a dumpster fire now.

Yep, and he made his bones in marketing, and knows he can't have this story continue for another 8-plus months until the team is playing real football games again. Its not a matter of when, not if.

 

[ryno1980]

After reading that, I think I've read 10,000 words on this topic and I still don't have a good explanation for why I care.

And yet here you are. Again.

Yes, and that was my point. It was an interesting post. The whole thing is a trainwreck and I'm addicted to it.

 

[Phenix]

Must realize he will never be a head coach again.

NFL Media PR ‏@InsideNFLMedia

57s
Also from @MikeSilver: "One person familiar with the situation told me of Mike Shanahan he loves this, apparently the messing w/ his boss."

Retweeted by Michael Silver

 

[PinkydaPimp]

ugh. dont know if i can watch this entire game. this is ugly football.

 

[Bob Magaw]

jr. looking to distance himself from sr.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/15/report-kyle-shanahan-has-decided-to-stop-working-with-his-dad/

Report: Kyle Shanahan has decided to stop working with his dad

Posted by Mike Florio on December 15, 2013, 2:01 PM EST

Earlier this week, Washington offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan defended his decision to join forces with his father after Mike Shanahan became head coach of the Redskins.

Kyle reportedly has made a new decision. To move on.

Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports that Kyle Shanahan has decided to no longer work with his father, and that Kyle will embark “on his own path” next year.

Lost in that assessment is the fact that the decision may not rest with Kyle. If he’s under contract beyond 2013, owner Daniel Snyder could insist on keeping him around. Which would be yet another move in the ongoing game of chess/checkers/chicken between Daniel Snyder and Mike Shanahan.

Regardless, Kyle never should have gone to Washington in the first place. While it’s great when fathers and sons can work together, it makes a lot more sense when the father owns the business. When the father is an employee, hiring the son creates a potential mess.

The mess becomes even more complicated when, as Jason La Canfora of NFL Network points out, the father also hires a bunch of the son’s friends — and people in the organization start complaining about the son.

Mike has, in our view, spent a lot of effort this week and previously to insulate Kyle from scrutiny or criticism for the situation in Washington. While Kyle may get a shot to be an offensive coordinator elsewhere, his head-coaching prospects have taken a hit during his four years of working with his father.

 

[Bob Magaw]

except for an early fumble, cousins a very efficient 75% completion percentage (9/12), 199 yards and 2 TDs in first half.

 

[Bob Magaw]

excerpt...

In other news, a Redskins player told Rapoport that Griffin and Mike Shanahan passed each other in the hallway this week without saying a word. RGIII has told teammates he believes he'll be playing for a different head coach in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000297895/article/kyle-shanahan-decides-he-cant-work-alongside-dad

 

[Faust]

Kyle Shanahan, staff inexperience at core of Redskins dysfunction

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Kirk Cousins had some very nice moments in this game. the 7 turnovers to hapless ATL defense truly laughable, but we've seen enough of this product to not be surprised by it. Even with 7 turnovers, we could have won this game...ouch. Rams fans are happy if that is any consolation.

 

[ImTheScientist]

I get that skin fans want to defend their beloved RG3 ..... But he hasn't played well, acts like he is above people, and seems like he bought too much into the hype.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I get that skin fans want to defend their beloved RG3 ..... But he hasn't played well, acts like he is above people, and seems like he bought too much into the hype.

Yeah, well, there is the whole torn ACL less than 12 months ago part.

Doubt if the next HC forgets one of the greatest rookie seasons for a QB in league history.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I get that skin fans want to defend their beloved RG3 ..... But he hasn't played well, acts like he is above people, and seems like he bought too much into the hype.

Seriously, stick to your Seahawks. It's the only team you know even a little bit about.