OUTRAGE because cops shoot someone APPARENTLY PULLING GUN on them (1 Viewer)

[Clifford]

You guys should all read Ditkaless Wonder's post. Personally I would gladly pay a tax increase in my State to pay for higher salaries for cops if they were tied to higher standards in basic intelligence, problem solving, and communication skills as qualifiers

I'm thinking anyone with all these traits would be smart enough to find a job where they didn't get shot at, and protested against when they shot back.

Smart police don't come to a screeching skidding halt five feet from where they think a crazed man with a gun is

 

[matuski]

All the same Henry, I'd like a simultaneous increase in application standards, especially around IQ.

You would have to more than incrementally increase pay in order to not lose cops.

I don't see a lot of people with the skills you are referring to who are in a hurry to put themselves in harm's way.

 

[matuski]

You guys should all read Ditkaless Wonder's post. Personally I would gladly pay a tax increase in my State to pay for higher salaries for cops if they were tied to higher standards in basic intelligence, problem solving, and communication skills as qualifiers

Fixed. If you pay them better, the better qualified candidates will come.

Not sure I agree necessarily. You would have to pay them better than the market for people with those skill sets to compensate for the risk involved.

 

[Clifford]

All the same Henry, I'd like a simultaneous increase in application standards, especially around IQ.

You would have to more than incrementally increase pay in order to not lose cops.

I don't see a lot of people with the skills you are referring to who are in a hurry to put themselves in harm's way.

I wouldn't discount the will to do good and make a difference on a local level.

 

[matuski]

All the same Henry, I'd like a simultaneous increase in application standards, especially around IQ.

You would have to more than incrementally increase pay in order to not lose cops.

I don't see a lot of people with the skills you are referring to who are in a hurry to put themselves in harm's way.

I wouldn't discount the will to do good and make a difference on a local level.

Then you would see more of such qualified cops now. I would be shocked if the general applicant with those skillsets would look at it that way.

 

[matuski]

I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

[Clifford]

I think you need to change perception of what police are and can be. Perception right now is undereducated meatheads. Maybe lovable meatheads, but definitely meatheads.

 

[RCon]

You guys should all read Ditkaless Wonder's post. Personally I would gladly pay a tax increase in my State to pay for higher salaries for cops if they were tied to higher standards in basic intelligence, problem solving, and communication skills as qualifiers

Are police that underpaid undercompensated, if you consider benefits and the pension?Asking because I don't know.

 

[sbonomo]

I'm not reading through this whole mess, but the points that really bothered me were:

1. 911 caller identified it as a juvenile likely with a toy gun

2. Cop came out of the car shooting, he did not give himself any cover. If the cop thinks it is a real gun and thus a dangerous situation that might require deadly force, he is completely negligent as he created a situation where he has no choice but to shoot. If he doesn't know whether it is real or not, then it's beyond negligent.

3. People go to jail when their negligence leads to the death of another.

4. Growing up, my friend and I painted you guns black and silver to make them more real looking. Our parents saw us doing so. We would run around the neighborhood with them. We were white and it was the 90s so I guess nobody really cared.

Assuming you grew up in Detroit, the stupidity of the bolded explains the rest of your post.

 

[lod01]

You guys should all read Ditkaless Wonder's post. Personally I would gladly pay a tax increase in my State to pay for higher salaries for cops if they were tied to higher standards in basic intelligence, problem solving, and communication skills as qualifiers

I'm thinking anyone with all these traits would be smart enough to find a job where they didn't get shot at, and protested against when they shot back.

Smart police don't come to a screeching skidding halt five feet from where they think a crazed man with a gun is

He's got a point.

 

[sbonomo]

I work in a hospital where it is 98 ℅ have at least some associate degree most have bachelors. The ones who don't are grandfathered in. And almost most of them are retired. But I'm sure there is some 70-100 year old still working in the hospital who doesn't have an education. Thanks for asking though.

You are seriously saying your techs, secretaries, housekeepers, groundskeepers, maintenance, food service, etc. have degrees of some kind? If you are just counting professional staff you would be correct, but no hospital can keep the doors open with just RNs and Docs.

ETA: See this is been covered already...

Captain Obvious, AKA Bucksoh, is letting us know that Docs and RN's have degrees. Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China but it makes him feel as though he is supporting his idiotic point. Not sure the rest of us would agree.

 

[Henry Ford]

All the same Henry, I'd like a simultaneous increase in application standards, especially around IQ.

IQ prerequisites are a ridiculous idea in my opinion. IQ is a terrible gauge of just about everything relevant to the real world.

 

[Clifford]

OK well they use a test today to gauge IQ but disqualify applicants who score too high, soooo

 

[Henry Ford]

OK well they use a test today to gauge IQ but disqualify applicants who score too high, soooo

Do you agree that's stupid?

 

[Mors Venit]

All the same Henry, I'd like a simultaneous increase in application standards, especially around IQ.

IQ prerequisites are a ridiculous idea in my opinion. IQ is a terrible gauge of just about everything relevant to the real world.

What would you reccomend as an alternative?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I want the socially well adjusted, popular, good communicators with at least average deductive reasoning. Those who view themselves as innovators, not so much. I want good memory, integrity, and a person that actually likes people. (I would not qualify in my ideal world)

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

In my opinion E.Q. is more important than I.Q. for being a Cop.

 

[Henry Ford]

All the same Henry, I'd like a simultaneous increase in application standards, especially around IQ.

IQ prerequisites are a ridiculous idea in my opinion. IQ is a terrible gauge of just about everything relevant to the real world.

What would you reccomend as an alternative?

Paying them better and hiring the best candidates. Testing based on a skills assessment seems like a better idea than an IQ test.

 

[Clifford]

In my opinion E.Q. is more important than I.Q. for being a Cop.

Empathy Quotient?

 

[Clifford]

OK well they use a test today to gauge IQ but disqualify applicants who score too high, soooo

Do you agree that's stupid?

I bascially agree with you and DW that hiring based on a specific skill set that directly speaks to their ability to handle the job is the best approach, and targeting the skills DW listed as the best start. Get smart people who are good communicators and socially well adjusted and train them better and pay them more.

 

[matuski]

I want the socially well adjusted, popular, good communicators with at least average deductive reasoning. Those who view themselves as innovators, not so much. I want good memory, integrity, and a person that actually likes people. (I would not qualify in my ideal world)

People who fit that description are valued in a lot of places... in order to attract them to a more dangerous alternative, you would need to offer competitive (more than competitive imo) salaries and career development/advancement.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

OK well they use a test today to gauge IQ but disqualify applicants who score too high, soooo

Do you agree that's stupid?

I bascially agree with you and DW that hiring based on a specific skill set that directly speaks to their ability to handle the job is the best approach, and targeting the skills DW listed as the best start. Get smart people who are good communicators and socially well adjusted and train them better and pay them more.

a lot of ex soldiers become cops ....any chance they are better after being in a war torn territory ...or worse ?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

OK well they use a test today to gauge IQ but disqualify applicants who score too high, soooo

Do you agree that's stupid?

I bascially agree with you and DW that hiring based on a specific skill set that directly speaks to their ability to handle the job is the best approach, and targeting the skills DW listed as the best start. Get smart people who are good communicators and socially well adjusted and train them better and pay them more.

a lot of ex soldiers become cops ....any chance they are better after being in a war torn territory ...or worse ?

Many things taught by the military, and many traits cultivated and strengthened by them are assets to policing. That said, on average, if I had my druthers, we would not hire military combat personnel who served in war. All other military personnel, I would welcome.

I have nothing empirical on this, just an impression formed from anecdotal experience.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Counter-intuitively, perhaps, I find M.P.'s have a difficult time adjusting to many aspects of civilian policing.

 

[Mors Venit]

In my opinion E.Q. is more important than I.Q. for being a Cop.

Empathy Quotient?

Keep the EQ on QT

 

[Henry Ford]

Counter-intuitively, perhaps, I find M.P.'s have a difficult time adjusting to many aspects of civilian policing.

I don't think that's counter-intuitive at all. Anecdotally, MPs I know have done a gangbusters job in internal affairs. I think it translates better.

 

[tdoss]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Counter-intuitively, perhaps, I find M.P.'s have a difficult time adjusting to many aspects of civilian policing.

I don't think that's counter-intuitive at all. Anecdotally, MPs I know have done a gangbusters job in internal affairs. I think it translates better.

I have made a similar observation.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Beginning about 23 years ago many Departments had a similar observation. Many started reinstituting foot patrols, bike patrols, school resource officers, and neighborhood officers, To an extent it works. The difficulty is funding, and that many folks do not care to establish any relationship, they being busy with their own lives, as is normal. Also, in many truly urban areas the population can be quite transient.

 

[Fennis]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Beginning about 23 years ago many Departments had a similar observation. Many started reinstituting foot patrols, bike patrols, school resource officers, and neighborhood officers, To an extent it works. The difficulty is funding, and that many folks do not care to establish any relationship, they being busy with their own lives, as is normal. Also, in many truly urban areas the population can be quite transient.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/27/community-policing-is-centerpiece-reform-agreement-between-cleveland-justice.html

 

[IC FBGCav]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Beginning about 23 years ago many Departments had a similar observation. Many started reinstituting foot patrols, bike patrols, school resource officers, and neighborhood officers, To an extent it works. The difficulty is funding, and that many folks do not care to establish any relationship, they being busy with their own lives, as is normal. Also, in many truly urban areas the population can be quite transient.

You need to stop starting threads and run for office in your city. I dont know your job but I can assume what it is. Not many people in your position have that kind of perspective. (Not your post above but all in this thread)

 

[shadrap]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Ask the cops in Baltimore & LA if they would like to do this. If ordered they would resign en masse. No link-but fact.

 

[shadrap]

The fact being they value their lives.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The fact being they value their lives.

So do the people the cops are murdering.

 

[shadrap]

The fact being they value their lives.

So do the people the cops are murdering.

Link? Your comment is idiotic.

Happy New Year.

 

[Fennis]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Ask the cops in Baltimore & LA if they would like to do this. If ordered they would resign en masse. No link-but fact.

Not sure about Boston, but the police in LA have been doing community policing since the late 90s after Daryl Gates resigned and Willie Williams took over. In fact this year they added funding to it, as a response to increased violent crime.

No resignations as far as I know.

 

[msommer]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Ask the cops in Baltimore & LA if they would like to do this. If ordered they would resign en masse. No link-but fact.

Not sure about Boston, but the police in LA have been doing community policing since the late 90s after Daryl Gates resigned and Willie Williams took over. In fact this year they added funding to it, as a response to increased violent crime.

No resignations as far as I know.

Now we only need to fact check the Irish part....

 

[fatness]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Ask the cops in Baltimore & LA if they would like to do this. If ordered they would resign en masse. No link-but fact.

Not sure about Boston, but the police in LA have been doing community policing since the late 90s after Daryl Gates resigned and Willie Williams took over. In fact this year they added funding to it, as a response to increased violent crime.

No resignations as far as I know.

Now we only need to fact check the Irish part....

 

[shadrap]

I think one of the bigger issues is the divide between cops and those they police.

We need cops to walk the beat again. Get to know the neighborhood and people more by name and face.

Right now, there's just too much divide...cops have no idea who they're dealing with and have no cred with the people they roll up on. The people have no idea this is a good cop or just another jerkoff with a badge.

I don't know if it would've helped in this case or not...but I really think there should be more done to bring the cop's and people together.

Ask the cops in Baltimore & LA if they would like to do this. If ordered they would resign en masse. No link-but fact.

Yea, overboard with my statement. Can't take it back but I'm wrong.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Classy move here from the City of Cleveland to wrap this whole thing up:

'Insult to Homicide': Cleveland Sues Tamir Rice's Family for Ambulance FeesThe city has filed a suit demanding $500 in payment for emergency treatment for the boy after a police officer fatally shot him.
What’s more outrageous than having a police officer shoot an unarmed 12-year-old, failing to provide medical care, keeping his family forcibly from the scene, and then declining to indict the officer for the death? In most cases, little. But the city of Cleveland has found a way: It is suing Tamir Rice’s family for not paying the ambulance bill after a Cleveland cop shot and killed the boy in November 2014.

told The New York Times, “We don’t know any instance where we send letters like that. I’m not sure how it came out.”

Just this week, a Chicago officer filed a suit requesting $10 million in damages from the estate of Quintonio LeGrier, a college student he shot and killed on December 26.

But asking Rice’s family to pay for expenses after police shot him is reminiscent of little so much as “bullet fees,” charges reportedly issued by repressive governments after executions. In 2009, for instance, The Wall Street Journal reported the family of a young man shot during protests in Tehran was being asked to pay $3,000 to retrieve his body, as compensation for the bullet used by Iranian security forces to kill him. It’s also been widely reported the Chinese government charged a bullet fee to the families of people it executed. Those regimes are hardly seem like the model the Forest City wants to follow—even if its police has a similar track record of excessive violence.

link