Pat Kirwan Mock (1 Viewer)

[Bob_Magaw]

first of three mocks he will be doing for NFL.com... i'm posting this sight unseen for now because i know kirwan was a personnel guy for the jets, he still seems to be pretty well connected & i liked his take in some previous articles (where he created a hybrid measurable that summed VJ, broad jump & strength reps to uncover rare power/explosiveness combos (thinking outside the box)...

i'll try & post second & third under this thread (change sub-title at that time to reflect latest mock) and note changes... who is climbing the ladder & moving up the stack...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9378806

Mock draft: Bush on top, Titans tap Leinart

By Pat Kirwan

NFL.com Senior Analyst

(April 15, 2006) -- This is my first of three mock drafts that I will create for NFL.com leading up to the draft at the end of the month. I will assume that there will be no pre-draft trades that could change the decision making along the way. I will combine the activity in free agency, the needs of the teams, and the grades of the players as draft boards start to take shape.

1. Houston: Reggie Bush, RB, USC

Bush is a once-in-a-decade player and a matchup nightmare. He had 38 touchdowns in three years at USC.

2. New Orleans: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia

He could move down but a 10-year starter is too hard to resist. The Saints traded Wayne Gandy, a starter at tackle last season, to Atlanta.

3. Tennessee: Matt Leinart, QB, USC

Leinart threw for more touchdown passes in college than Vince Young and Jay Cutler combined. He also knows the Titans' offense, having played under coordinator Norm Chow at USC.

4. N.Y. Jets: Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State

Williams can replace John Abraham, who was traded this offseason. He reminds new coach Eric Mangini of the Patriots' Richard Seymour and can play in either the 3-4 or 4-3.

5. Green Bay: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon

Having Ngata in the middle makes Green Bay defensive ends Aaron Kampman and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila better. Ngata stops the run and has a rare combination of size and speed.

6. San Francisco: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland

A young quarterback like Alex Smith always needs a tight end to be effective and Davis can provide major matchup problems.

7. Oakland: Vince Young, QB, Texas

Aaron Brooks signed a two-year deal with the Raiders, but owner Al Davis likes Young's upside. Randy Moss could make a perfect partner.

8. Buffalo: Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State

The best under tackle for the new 'Dungy' defense, Bunkley has a talent that is hard to find.

9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas

The safest pick in the draft, Huff can play either cornerback or safety. He is a leader and a Matt Millen-type player.

10. Arizona: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt

Kurt Warner is old and brittle and Cutler is Brett Favre-like. He's still two years away, though.

11. St. Louis: A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State

Hawk should have been gone by now but will become a cornerstone for Jim Haslett's defense.

12. Cleveland: Kamerion Wimbley, DE, Florida State

Wimbley is the perfect fit for the 3-4 defense and reminds general manager Phil Savage of Peter Boulware, who Savage helped draft in Baltimore.

13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC

The Ravens can use Justice at right tackle until Jonathan Ogden retires.

14. Philadelphia: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida

The Eagles failed to land Eric Moulds and released Terrell Owens, so they could use Jackson right away.

15. Denver: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State

The Broncos can trade Ashley Lelie right after this pick.

16. Miami: Ernie Sims, OLB, Florida State

Sims is a tackling machine and replaces Junior Seau on the Dolphins defense.

17. Minnesota: Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa

Greenway has a high character, the type of player that new coach Brad Childress wants on the team.

18. Dallas: Manny Lawson, LB, N.C. State

Lawson is the perfect complement to DeMarcus Ware.

19. San Diego: Jimmy Williams, DB, Virginia Tech

Williams can be a corner or safety and the Chargers need to replace Sammy Davis in the secondary.

20. Kansas City: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State

Cromartie is a tremendous athlete and has had excellent workouts. The Chiefs really need to focus on defense in the draft.

21. New England: DeMeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama

The Patriots replace Willie McGinest with Ryans, a highly productive linebacker.

22. Denver: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis

The Broncos got the wide receiver earlier in the draft and the running back completes their first round.

23. Tampa Bay: Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College

Kiwanuka can learn for a year behing Simeon Rice. He had 34 sacks in college.

24. Cincinnati: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State

Bengals center Rich Braham is 36 years old and in the last year of his contract.

25. N.Y. Giants: Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State

The son of former Giants running back Rob Carpenter, he is a versatile linebacker than can fill two needs.

26. Chicago: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson

This pick could change if the Bears acquire a cornerback in free agency.

27. Carolina: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota

With Stephen Davis gone, the Panthers need a back to complement DeShaun Foster.

28. Jacksonville: Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State

A slow time in the 40-yard dash drops Hali, but he could be used replace Paul Spicer.

29. N.Y. Jets: Eric Winston, OT, Miami

The Jets missed out on Ferguson earlier and left tackle is a top need.

30. Indianapolis: Thomas Howard, OLB, Texas-El Paso

USC running back LenDale White is there but the Colts also lost linebacker David Thornton.

31. Seattle: Davin Joseph, G, Oklahoma: Joseph is an immediate replacement for Steve Hutchinson.

32. Pittsburgh: Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas: White looks tempting, but Wright answers a bigger need.

Second Round

The second round looks as good as half of the first round and teams can really satisfy some of their pressing needs with players capable of making an early impact. Of course, some of the players selected in the first round could easily fall to the second round and a few of the following players could be taken in the first round.

33. Houston: Marcus McNeil, OT, Auburn

34. New Orleans: Johnathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina

35. N.Y. Jets: Andrew Whitworth, OT, Louisiana State

36. Green Bay: Roger McIntosh, OLB, Miami

37. San Francisco: Jason Allen, DB, Tennessee

38. Oakland: Claude Wroten, DT, Louisiana State

39. Tennessee: Abdul Hodge, ILB, Iowa

40. Detroit: Kelly Jennings, CB, Miami

41. Arizona: Darnell Bing, S, USC

42. Buffalo: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State

43. Cleveland: Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan

44. Baltimore: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina

45. Philadelphia: LenDale White, RB, USC

46. St. Louis: Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA

47. Atlanta: Deuce Lutui, G, USC

48. Minnesota: Anthony Fasano, TE, Notre Dame

49. Dallas: Pat Watkins, FS, Florida State

50. San Diego: Sinorice Moss, WR, Miami

51. Minnesota: Brodie Croyle, QB, Alabama

52. New England: Brian Calhoun, RB, Wisconsin

53. Washington: Ray Edwards, DE, Purdue

54. Kansas City: Donte Whitner, SS, Ohio State

55. Cincinnati: Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia

56. N.Y. Giants: Jon Scott, OT, Texas

57. Chicago: Joe Klopfenstein, TE, Colorado

58. Carolina: Max Jean-Gilles, G, Georgia

59. Tampa Bay: Daniel Bullocks, S, Nebraska

60. Jacksonville: Joseph Addai, RB, Louisiana State

61. Denver: Dominique Byrd, TE, USC

62. Indianapolis: Jerious Norwood, RB, Mississippi State

63. Seattle: Jon Alston, OLB, Stanford

64. Pittsburgh: Maurice Stoval, WR, Notre Dame

 

[Jene Bramel]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable. Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is :X as well.

 

[matuski]

Lions taking DB DB makes no sense to me either.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

CIN linked with DT a lot, but bunkley & ngata off board (LONG GONE in this mock) & might be too early for watson, consensus next best DT (& they got sam adams in FA)... maybe a DE like kiwanuka or hali would make sense... probably too early for bing, but a safety like whitner might complement madieu williams nicely...

the case for mangold might be to strengthen OL up middle to better protect carson palmer while also elevating run blocking capability...

as to MIA... thomas is playing at a high level but he is getting old... crowder might be ILB/MLB of future, & sims is probably best at WLB... not sure if he would be miscast at 3-4 OLB... they could scoop up cutler or santonio holmes/chad jackson if they fall... they could probably use secondary help more if a skill position player doesn't materialize...

huff could go as high as #6 SF (probably davis) or #7 OAK, so he would fit BPA criteria for DET & be solid value... he would be instant upgrade at CB or could be their best safety... their aren't too many guys with that kind of flexibility...

some scouts thought antrel rolle could be a safety & he is a future star... guys like carnell lake played safety & CB, as did stud DBs ronnie lott, rod woodson & aeneas williams... not putting him with those guys & saying he is as good, but i think he is like them in that he can be really good at either position... he is not just a tweener guy not really good at either position...

the pick that roared off the screen for me was hawk... i just haven't seen ANY mocks where he falls that far... i don't think it happens... but interesting how when you tweak a few parameters, & plug three QBs & two DTs into equation strange things happen...

ngata at #5 seems surprising, but it was not long ago that he was close to a top 5 grade... & would BUF, DET & ARI all pass on hawk... but they may really like bunkley, huff & cutler?

 

[AnonymousBob]

I hope the Niners don't take Davis like so many of these drafts are predicting.

 

[zamboni]

22. Denver: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis

The Broncos got the wide receiver earlier in the draft and the running back completes their first round.

I don't see it happening, but imagine the reverberations around the FF world if it did.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Interesting to see LenDale fall past the Colts for Thomas Howard.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC

Please, please, please!!!

 

[jurb26]

13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC

Please, please, please!!!

My lord I hope not.

 

[coolnerd]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable. Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is :X as well.

If I am not mistaken there is only one Bengal starting Olman under contract past 2006.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd be stoked as a Charger fan to end up with Williams and Moss after two.

 

[V1LL]

9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas

The safest pick in the draft, Huff can play either cornerback or safety. He is a leader and a Matt Millen-type player.



I don't see them passing on Hawk if he's there.

 

[Chaos Commish]

The backs not named Bush in reverse order.

Norwood in Indy would be pretty interesting. After all my hype, I'd be fine with him there.

Addai in Jax does little for me.

Calhoun in New England is a nice fit. He wouldn't replace Dillon immediately, nor could he take over 3rd downs from Faulk right away. But his chance will come, and he'll be better than either.

LenDale in Philadelphia. Well, there was a time many Eagle fan would have been happy to get him in the first. The thunder and lightening with Westbrook isn't too exciting for either's fantasy outloo.

Maroney in Carolina is interesting. He's probably not better than Foster at anything, but staying healthy, so he'd get a nice look before it was said and done. Moderately interesting.

DeAngelo in Denver.

This would be fun. He's probably better than Bell in the long run, but this would be RBBC next year. Right?

 

[TLEF316]

jets arent taking 2 OT in the first 3 picks. Jones is more than servicable at one spot.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'd be stoked as a Charger fan to end up with Williams and Moss after two.

I'd be furious. They need help on that OL.

 

[Chaos Commish]

jets arent taking 2 OT in the first 3 picks. Jones is more than servicable at one spot.

I was thinking the same thing. If one was a guard, or Mangold at center then maybe it would make sense. On the other hand, it looked pretty good at first glance. Winston and Whitworth, bookends for years. Can Jones move inside? Didn't he start at guard for a brief spell? I know he played left and right tackle.

 

[TLEF316]

jets arent taking 2 OT in the first 3 picks. Jones is more than servicable at one spot.

I was thinking the same thing. If one was a guard, or Mangold at center then maybe it would make sense. On the other hand, it looked pretty good at first glance. Winston and Whitworth, bookends for years. Can Jones move inside? Didn't he start at guard for a brief spell? I know he played left and right tackle.

i thought about moving jones to guard. He's athletic enough to get out and pull, but im not sure he is strong enough to run block inside.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable.  Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is  :X as well.

If I am not mistaken there is only one Bengal starting Olman under contract past 2006.

You're correct.But center is a minor issue. 2nd year man Eric Ghaicuc is the heir apparent to Braham. And former LSU stud (pre-injury) Ben Wilkerson is rostered as well. Bobbie Williams was just signed to an extension. I'd be shocked in Jones or Steinbach wasn't locked up soon, with the other getting tagged if not signed. Big Willie is the big question mark at this stage.

I have no problem with the Bengals taking an OL as a hedge for the future. But not a center. Especially in the first round. Even more so a guy who doesn't carry a definite first round grade.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd be stoked as a Charger fan to end up with Williams and Moss after two.

I'd be furious. They need help on that OL.

The Chargers have shown the ability to find nice fits for their line in the middle and late rounds. I kind of like that philosophy. I don't want them to pass over top shelf DB or WR talent for OL help if similar OL help can be found a few rounds later.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'd be stoked as a Charger fan to end up with Williams and Moss after two.

I'd be furious. They need help on that OL.

The Chargers have shown the ability to find nice fits for their line in the middle and late rounds. I kind of like that philosophy. I don't want them to pass over top shelf DB or WR talent for OL help if similar OL help can be found a few rounds later.

Fair enough. I'm not such a big fan of Moss, so that influenced my opinion too. They already have a dynamic little kick returner, and that may be all Moss is. I sure don't think he's like his brother. I also love dominant OLs, and I read somewhere... wait...Here's AJ sort of hinting about OL priorities.

“It's a glaring thing in itself, even if Drew Brees is here,” Smith said of the left tackle spot. “The fact that he's not here and it's a young (quarterback) puts a spotlight on it.”

This is not to say the Chargers will be drafting a tackle. Unlike kickers, however, it has not been ruled out.

Maybe I'm just destined to root for two teams who don't emphasize stud OLs-- SD and Dal.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd be stoked as a Charger fan to end up with Williams and Moss after two.

I'd be furious. They need help on that OL.

The Chargers have shown the ability to find nice fits for their line in the middle and late rounds. I kind of like that philosophy. I don't want them to pass over top shelf DB or WR talent for OL help if similar OL help can be found a few rounds later.

Fair enough. I'm not such a big fan of Moss, so that influenced my opinion too. They already have a dynamic little kick returner, and that may be all Moss is. I sure don't think he's like his brother. I also love dominant OLs, and I read somewhere... wait...Here's AJ sort of hinting about OL priorities.

“It's a glaring thing in itself, even if Drew Brees is here,” Smith said of the left tackle spot. “The fact that he's not here and it's a young (quarterback) puts a spotlight on it.”

This is not to say the Chargers will be drafting a tackle. Unlike kickers, however, it has not been ruled out.

Maybe I'm just destined to root for two teams who don't emphasize stud OLs-- SD and Dal.

My OL philosophy has changed quite a bit over the past couple of years. 3 years ago, I was a big Gallery fan, and hoped the Chargers would somehow be able to trade down and still get him. After that fell apart, and the Chargers got a similar player in the 7th round (Olivea = Gallery in '04 & '05, IMO), I've come to believe that although have dominant tackles and guards is nice, it's possible to win w/o'em. In this salary cap era, it's impossible to be strong in every area. LT is the type of RB who doesn't need a dominant OL to excel, so I think the Bolts philosophy of drafting OL late and in numbers is a decent compromise. It allows them to spend their high picks on skill positions and defense.

But hey, if a dominant OL is available (Brick, Justice) then I say go OL. I'm just not sure about the difference b/w some of the OL prospects that will be available at 19 and ~ 80 (3rd round). Jonathan Scott was a mid-2nd rounder a month ago; it now appears he's got a good shot of being available when the Bolts pick in the 3rd.

Just MO.

 

[PennState-JD]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable. Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is :X as well.

Not sure I see why that is laughable. Rich Braham is the weak link on that line and hasn't been signed to a long term deal (plus he will be 36 this year). Bobbie Williams and Steinbach are solid, and Anderson and Jones too. The priority for the team now is resigning the OL with all the cap room they have.Throw in that the team has been known in the past to give local guys a shot (Krenzel, Ghent, J. Johnson, Germaine), etc.

 

[Bob Henry]

9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas

The safest pick in the draft, Huff can play either cornerback or safety. He is a leader and a Matt Millen-type player.



I don't see them passing on Hawk if he's there.

Exactly, no way they pass on Hawk if he's there, not to mention that Winston Justice is also on the board in this mock.

 

[Donnybrook]

9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas

The safest pick in the draft, Huff can play either cornerback or safety. He is a leader and a Matt Millen-type player.

     

I don't see them passing on Hawk if he's there.

Exactly, no way they pass on Hawk if he's there, not to mention that Winston Justice is also on the board in this mock.

Pat Kirwan believes History, depth could keep Hawk out of top five. He has a point. Linebackers seem to be drafted later and later in recent years.

 

[Bob Henry]

9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas

The safest pick in the draft, Huff can play either cornerback or safety. He is a leader and a Matt Millen-type player.

     

I don't see them passing on Hawk if he's there.

Exactly, no way they pass on Hawk if he's there, not to mention that Winston Justice is also on the board in this mock.

Pat Kirwan believes History, depth could keep Hawk out of top five. He has a point. Linebackers seem to be drafted later and later in recent years.

I hope he goes top 9, let's put it that way.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable.  Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is  :X as well.

Not sure I see why that is laughable. Rich Braham is the weak link on that line and hasn't been signed to a long term deal (plus he will be 36 this year). Bobbie Williams and Steinbach are solid, and Anderson and Jones too. The priority for the team now is resigning the OL with all the cap room they have.Throw in that the team has been known in the past to give local guys a shot (Krenzel, Ghent, J. Johnson, Germaine), etc.

See my reply addressing this a few posts above. No question the Bengals (and Duke Tobin especially) have always seemed to look at the Big Ten for talent. Most of that was related to a thin scouting budget - the Big Ten was easy and cheap to scout.

It wouldn't shock me if the Bengals consider Mangold in the second. But the interior of the OL is not a major need. I just don't see the Bengals reaching for Mangold over a big hitting safety like Donte Whitner when they've got Ghiacuc in the wings already as a replacement for Braham. And as you said yourself, the Bengals are going to do whatever it takes to sign Jones and Steinbach in the next 12 months.

If you and coolnerd are correct and the Bengals take an interior lineman in the first round, I'll be the first in here to eat my words.

 

[jaymoon007]

no way aj hawk drops out of the top 10

 

[coolnerd]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable.  Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is  :X as well.

If I am not mistaken there is only one Bengal starting Olman under contract past 2006.

You're correct.But center is a minor issue. 2nd year man Eric Ghaicuc is the heir apparent to Braham. And former LSU stud (pre-injury) Ben Wilkerson is rostered as well. Bobbie Williams was just signed to an extension. I'd be shocked in Jones or Steinbach wasn't locked up soon, with the other getting tagged if not signed. Big Willie is the big question mark at this stage.

I have no problem with the Bengals taking an OL as a hedge for the future. But not a center. Especially in the first round. Even more so a guy who doesn't carry a definite first round grade.

Thanks for the update, as I just remember Bengals fans complaining about the center position for about three years running.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

Lions taking DB DB makes no sense to me either.

Yeah, I don't think there is no way they pass on AJ Hawk if still on the board at #9. I'm not really sold on Huff and think they could get a comparible player later in the draft. He projects as either a safety or DB so that could tip the scales in his favor, but I think they should go OL unless someone too attractive falls to them, like Hawk.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

First mock I've seen besides my own that has Ngata to Green Bay and Wright to Pittsburgh.

 

[PennState-JD]

Not bad, but the Bengals taking Nick Mangold is laughable. Ernie Sims to Miami where Zach and Channing live is :X as well.

Not sure I see why that is laughable. Rich Braham is the weak link on that line and hasn't been signed to a long term deal (plus he will be 36 this year). Bobbie Williams and Steinbach are solid, and Anderson and Jones too. The priority for the team now is resigning the OL with all the cap room they have.Throw in that the team has been known in the past to give local guys a shot (Krenzel, Ghent, J. Johnson, Germaine), etc.

See my reply addressing this a few posts above. No question the Bengals (and Duke Tobin especially) have always seemed to look at the Big Ten for talent. Most of that was related to a thin scouting budget - the Big Ten was easy and cheap to scout.

It wouldn't shock me if the Bengals consider Mangold in the second. But the interior of the OL is not a major need. I just don't see the Bengals reaching for Mangold over a big hitting safety like Donte Whitner when they've got Ghiacuc in the wings already as a replacement for Braham. And as you said yourself, the Bengals are going to do whatever it takes to sign Jones and Steinbach in the next 12 months.

If you and coolnerd are correct and the Bengals take an interior lineman in the first round, I'll be the first in here to eat my words.

The Bengals scouting now has Duke's Dad and maybe a couple more faces, but it is still smaller than most of the teams around the league. You are right that they were stretched thin as they relied on their coaches to scout over the weekend in the past. I agree that Whitner would be a much better pick for them and I could see that happening. But if he is gone (doubtful, but who knows), Mangold becomes a possibility especially as Marvin has been dismissing picking a TE. That (TE) seems to be the sexy pick now, but this team has not shied away from spending high picks on the OL, and will continue to do so with the franchise being #9.

I haven't heard much about Wilkerson in the offseason, but you gotta think that he chose the Bengals because he saw the position changing over soon.

 

[Ridgelake]

If Hawk and Justice are on the board at 11, I can't imagine the number of phone calls that StL will get for trade ups. Every LB needy team will be all over that. Every team looking for an OT will be all over that. They could get some great offers if this draft materializes like Kirwan projects.

 

[Jene Bramel]

The Bengals scouting now has Duke's Dad and maybe a couple more faces, but it is still smaller than most of the teams around the league. You are right that they were stretched thin as they relied on their coaches to scout over the weekend in the past.

I agree that Whitner would be a much better pick for them and I could see that happening. But if he is gone (doubtful, but who knows), Mangold becomes a possibility especially as Marvin has been dismissing picking a TE. That (TE) seems to be the sexy pick now, but this team has not shied away from spending high picks on the OL, and will continue to do so with the franchise being #9.

I haven't heard much about Wilkerson in the offseason, but you gotta think that he chose the Bengals because he saw the position changing over soon.

Absolutely. I agree with all of the above. Like you, I'd be a little surprised if they took a TE in the first round. Unless they're in love with one guy, the position is too deep with agile pass catchers that look similar. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they grabbed a nice OT if one slid to them. I just don't see the center. Even with Braham almost surely retiring after this season.FYI, Wilkerson probably could've practiced last season but was placed on IR out of training camp to avoid losing him on waivers. He'll have to compete for a roster spot this year but in his words is healthy but a little rusty. He definitely saw the Bengals as a prime opportunity. Some 15 teams offered him a contract after the draft. The Bengals gave him a very nice signing bonus as well.

If he can return to his pre-injury level, the Bengal OL will have some very, very nice depth as Ghiacuc could handle the guard position as well.

 

[TheFanatic]

11. St. Louis: A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State

Hawk should have been gone by now but will become a cornerstone for Jim Haslett's defense.

46. St. Louis: Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA

Oh, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!

 

[Jason Wood]

His most glaring error is having Hawk out of the top 10, not going to happen. I like that he's got Thomas Howard and Davin Joseph in the first round (two guys I personally am high on), but I think neither will actually get taken that high, particularly Howard.

 

[moleculo]

is 5 TE's in the second round realistic?

 

[Jason Wood]

is 5 TE's in the second round realistic?

Depends on how many he has going in the 1st and 3rd. Personally, I think it's a lock that five tight ends will go on Day One, with a sixth likely and as many as eight coming off the board.

We know Vernon Davis is a 1st round lock.

We also know that Marcedes Lewis, Dom Byrd, Leonard Pope and Joe Klopfenstein are locks for the first day.

I also expect Anthony Fasano to come off the board in the 3rd, which would make six TEs.

David Thomas (Texas) and Tim Day (Oregon) COULD come off the board on Day One, but with so many quality TEs ahead of them, they probably fall into the 4th-5th round and offer "value" to whatever teams grab them.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

is 5 TE's in the second round realistic?

Depends on how many he has going in the 1st and 3rd. Personally, I think it's a lock that five tight ends will go on Day One, with a sixth likely and as many as eight coming off the board.

We know Vernon Davis is a 1st round lock.

We also know that Marcedes Lewis, Dom Byrd, Leonard Pope and Joe Klopfenstein are locks for the first day.

I also expect Anthony Fasano to come off the board in the 3rd, which would make six TEs.

David Thomas (Texas) and Tim Day (Oregon) COULD come off the board on Day One, but with so many quality TEs ahead of them, they probably fall into the 4th-5th round and offer "value" to whatever teams grab them.

I think Thomas is underrated and could easily turn out to be better than most of the TEs drafted before him.

 

[Jason Wood]

is 5 TE's in the second round realistic?

Depends on how many he has going in the 1st and 3rd. Personally, I think it's a lock that five tight ends will go on Day One, with a sixth likely and as many as eight coming off the board.

We know Vernon Davis is a 1st round lock.

We also know that Marcedes Lewis, Dom Byrd, Leonard Pope and Joe Klopfenstein are locks for the first day.

I also expect Anthony Fasano to come off the board in the 3rd, which would make six TEs.

David Thomas (Texas) and Tim Day (Oregon) COULD come off the board on Day One, but with so many quality TEs ahead of them, they probably fall into the 4th-5th round and offer "value" to whatever teams grab them.

I think Thomas is underrated and could easily turn out to be better than most of the TEs drafted before him.

Thomas is a tad small, perceived more as a pure pass-catcher H-back (i.e., Chris Cooley). From a fantasy perspective, there's no reason he couldn't deliver solid receiving numbers as he's fast enough, is a disciplined route runner, and can make catches over the middle.The reason Thomas isn't considered a top TE prospect in the draft is because of his "non fantasy" issuess...namely his size and aptitude as a blocker, which is average, at best, subpar, at worst.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

is 5 TE's in the second round realistic?

Depends on how many he has going in the 1st and 3rd. Personally, I think it's a lock that five tight ends will go on Day One, with a sixth likely and as many as eight coming off the board.

We know Vernon Davis is a 1st round lock.

We also know that Marcedes Lewis, Dom Byrd, Leonard Pope and Joe Klopfenstein are locks for the first day.

I also expect Anthony Fasano to come off the board in the 3rd, which would make six TEs.

David Thomas (Texas) and Tim Day (Oregon) COULD come off the board on Day One, but with so many quality TEs ahead of them, they probably fall into the 4th-5th round and offer "value" to whatever teams grab them.

I think Thomas is underrated and could easily turn out to be better than most of the TEs drafted before him.

Thomas is a tad small, perceived more as a pure pass-catcher H-back (i.e., Chris Cooley). From a fantasy perspective, there's no reason he couldn't deliver solid receiving numbers as he's fast enough, is a disciplined route runner, and can make catches over the middle.The reason Thomas isn't considered a top TE prospect in the draft is because of his "non fantasy" issuess...namely his size and aptitude as a blocker, which is average, at best, subpar, at worst.

Agreed. He's not going to play for the Steelers, for instance, but if a team used him more in the Cooley, or even Gates/Gonzalez mold, I think he could be a very solid player. I think he might have the best hands of all the tight ends, and his athleticism is right there with anyone besides Davis. He's a smart player, knows how to create separation, and can make the tough catch - I like him as a pass-catcher.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Minnesota = Greenway/Fasano/Croyle

 

[Kirby]

The Bengals scouting now has Duke's Dad and maybe a couple more faces, but it is still smaller than most of the teams around the league.  You are right that they were stretched thin as they relied on their coaches to scout over the weekend in the past.

I agree that Whitner would be a much better pick for them and I could see that happening.  But if he is gone (doubtful, but who knows), Mangold becomes a possibility especially as Marvin has been dismissing picking a TE.  That (TE) seems to be the sexy pick now, but this team has not shied away from spending high picks on the OL, and will continue to do so with the franchise being #9. 

I haven't heard much about Wilkerson in the offseason, but you gotta think that he chose the Bengals because he saw the position changing over soon.

Absolutely. I agree with all of the above. Like you, I'd be a little surprised if they took a TE in the first round. Unless they're in love with one guy, the position is too deep with agile pass catchers that look similar. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they grabbed a nice OT if one slid to them. I just don't see the center. Even with Braham almost surely retiring after this season.FYI, Wilkerson probably could've practiced last season but was placed on IR out of training camp to avoid losing him on waivers. He'll have to compete for a roster spot this year but in his words is healthy but a little rusty. He definitely saw the Bengals as a prime opportunity. Some 15 teams offered him a contract after the draft. The Bengals gave him a very nice signing bonus as well.

If he can return to his pre-injury level, the Bengal OL will have some very, very nice depth as Ghiacuc could handle the guard position as well.

 

[theToes]

There is no way the Eagles take a WR at #14. If all of the O and D lineman are gone at 14 I think they'll trade down before the go wide out.

 

[Jason Wood]

There is no way the Eagles take a WR at #14. If all of the O and D lineman are gone at 14 I think they'll trade down before the go wide out.

I think and hope you're right, but you never can tell. Eagles have moved up several times the last few years with mediocre results. This could be the year they move down.I am reasonably sure they like Winston Justice quite a bit and would jump on him at 14. I also think they would try to move up a few spots to secure Justice but that won't be predictable until the draft unfolds and we see how much they would need to give up to move and whether the teams in front of Philly would be willing to deal.

Assuming Justice and Bunkley are off the board at 14, I don't see anyone the Eagles HAVE to grab although there are several players that could conceivably help the team's depth as rookies.

 

[theToes]

There is no way the Eagles take a WR at #14.  If all of the O and D lineman are gone at 14 I think they'll trade down before the go wide out.

I think and hope you're right, but you never can tell. Eagles have moved up several times the last few years with mediocre results. This could be the year they move down.I am reasonably sure they like Winston Justice quite a bit and would jump on him at 14. I also think they would try to move up a few spots to secure Justice but that won't be predictable until the draft unfolds and we see how much they would need to give up to move and whether the teams in front of Philly would be willing to deal.

Assuming Justice and Bunkley are off the board at 14, I don't see anyone the Eagles HAVE to grab although there are several players that could conceivably help the team's depth as rookies.

I have been hearing on loal sports radio that the Eagles are giving thought to moving up to grab Ngata. As far as I know this is only a rumor but if it happened I would not be diasappointed.

 

[Jason Wood]

There is no way the Eagles take a WR at #14.  If all of the O and D lineman are gone at 14 I think they'll trade down before the go wide out.

I think and hope you're right, but you never can tell. Eagles have moved up several times the last few years with mediocre results. This could be the year they move down.I am reasonably sure they like Winston Justice quite a bit and would jump on him at 14. I also think they would try to move up a few spots to secure Justice but that won't be predictable until the draft unfolds and we see how much they would need to give up to move and whether the teams in front of Philly would be willing to deal.

Assuming Justice and Bunkley are off the board at 14, I don't see anyone the Eagles HAVE to grab although there are several players that could conceivably help the team's depth as rookies.

I have been hearing on loal sports radio that the Eagles are giving thought to moving up to grab Ngata. As far as I know this is only a rumor but if it happened I would not be diasappointed.

I wouldn't be disappointed with any of the possible front line players Philly could be targeting. If they come away with Ngata, Bunkley or Justice, I've got no complaints.The problem is, all three of those guys are probably off the board by 14, so Philly has to decide whether to move up.

 

[Blackjacks]

11. St. Louis: A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State

Hawk should have been gone by now but will become a cornerstone for Jim Haslett's defense.

46. St. Louis: Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA

Oh, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!