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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
Oh yes, just interested in the NFL, lol. Thanks for giving them a "bit" of the benefit of the doubt. Strange that you assume their guilt based on an old interview and your own assumptions- and guilty in the end regardless of what the NFl does, just what they want. But you love the NFL?? Confusing. I thought most Patriot haters scurried like roaches when a light is turned on but a few have regrouped apparently.

APOLOGIZE to Pats fans! To Kraft, Bellichick, all the PAtriots. All you haters should be lucky enough to kneel and kiss Bill's ring!
You guys are a riot.

One thing many people learned through all of this is to respect (most) Patriot fans less. Thanks for re-affirming that view.
I'm a Panthers fan and think this was a joke from the beginning. Those John Clayton quotes from Yudkin were hysterical. Always fun to see talking heads talk through both sides of their mouths and getting all up in arms with NE because it is more news. Miami doesn't matter, so who cares, kids being kids. That said, you are ridiculous in your blind hatred. Your "facts" above were your ability to read Tom Brady and determine the guilt. Comical, you know what most people have learned through all of this is that there are people out there who will believe anything including their own crazy thoughts. As the phrase goes, there is a sucker born every minute. Welcome to your minute.
Well, explain all of this to my Pats fans friends who have actually watched the interview.

And nobody said that was a fact. You just make stuff up.


Every one I know who saw that thinks they guy is guilty. Sorry, dont know what to tell you.

It was an awful moment for Brady.

PS He will absolutely be acquitted of this. I know, I know...you cant handle that kind of nuance. It must be black or white in your world.
Convicting Brady based on that interview is presumptuous.

Your opinion is a convenient one. You're convinced he's guilty but that he will also be acquitted. So no matter what happens you will be right in your mind.
It's not black and white.

The Pats "prepare the balls" in such a way that the PSI might drop. They've admitted as much. They also inflate them to the lowest legal PSI, since Brady has expressed that is how he likes them. It is possible that Brady knew/knows that the way the Pats prepare the balls allows them to be under the legal limit (and that the officials don't always use a gauge to check them), so when he was talking in that interview, he was "careful" with how he answered his questions. If his answers didn't ring true to someone, that person could believe he was guilty, but know that his personal belief was not going to matter, and that Brady & the Pats will not be found guilty/punished for this situation.
I, for one, generally agree with this.

To me Brady's answer is tantamount to insinuating to many that he is bad as Brad Johnson was (or less; Johnson admitted to it as it relates to the SB after all). That crime is not a huge deal on a standalone basis really and many in here would agree with that. The difference to some, among some other things, is that Brady's disappointing denial is worse than the crime as far as his integrity is concerned.


In that interview Brady was given a very fair opportunity to say, "Hey, I had nothing to do with this". His answer then led me, Costas, Collinsworth, Ed Sherman, and any one else Ive seen report on it to say he has a credibility problem that pushes beyond reasonable doubt. I implore all the Patriots (and Panthers) fans and other...PLEASE, if there's a report out there that cites that interview as anything other than hurting Brady's credibility, please link it.

 
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Boy Tango, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that. I learned a long time ago that real life is much more complicated than that. I read a study several years ago (wish I could find it) where children were interrogated by trained psychologists and cajoled into confessing for something they didn't do. These weren't young kids either. I think many were teenagers. In any event, the point of the exercise was to show that some of the worst bits of evidence in determining the truth of a situation come out of the person being questioned. The psychology behind it is fascinating. Most interesting is that some of the most honest and good natured kids were the ones who came across the most guilty. It changed my whole viewpoint on thinking I could read people.

I've watched the Brady / Costas interview several times now. I think it's quite possible that Brady was treating this interview just like every other one he's had as a Patriot over the years, where you are trained to say nothing, divulge nothing, and commit to nothing. Thing is, this wasn't an interview about football, it was an interview about Brady breaking the rules. So his "say nothing of substance" approach came off sounding hollow and inauthentic, which some people immediately interpret as guilt.

Who knows. I for one am more fascinated at all the people in this country with an absolute hard on trying to taint the Pats' achievements over the years. That's the bigger story here, and the one history will remember. It really is the 21st century version of the Salem witch hunts. People demonize that which they can't understand, and people can't understand how a team can remain so successful year after year in the salary cap era. And the hatred has turned people into raving idiots and caused them to lose all perspective. Pay no attention to the fact that the NFL is littered with wife beaters, child abusers, rapists and murderers. Not just a few people on the periphery. Star players - Roethlisberger, Rice, Hernandez, Peterson... Even the commentators are corrupt hypocrites. Nice touch with Warren Sapp manhandling a prostitute right after the conclusion of the Super Bowl. Glad guys like this are giving their "expert" opinions on the legacy of Tom Brady.

There is one lesson from Deflategate that I am absolutely certain of - the entire NFL - from the players to the owners to the idiots who cover the sport - EVERYONE is full of ####. Modern football was forged in the 60's in the height of Cold War paranoia, and this paranoia became institutionalized when lunatics like Hank Stramm started having his coaches comb the woods surrounding his team's practices, convinced his opponents were spying on him. You have egomaniacal coaches, testosterone overloaded players with one too many head injuries, and billionaire ultra-competitive owners all trying to play nice together in the sand box using an antiquated, poorly written rule book that is interpreted by part time officials who don't even have enough common sense to define what a catch is. And I've saved the best for last - the mediots who cover these fools. These guys have the best job in the world. They can write whatever they want, slander people daily with impunity, and if they are wrong all they have to do is say, "that's what my source told me" and - wait for it - they never have to reveal their source! It's like the ultimate hall pass. I have lost all respect for the media in this country, especially the sports media. These people are the lowest of the low - as worthwhile as #### on a bull. They are about one thing and one thing only - getting clicks, views and ratings - and the truth has no place whatsoever within that universe.

The whole thing has left this football addict just about ready for rehab. Football stopped being fun in 2014. It really did. And that's coming from a guy whose favorite team just won the ####### Super Bowl. Think about that. Normally I would have purchased hundreds of dollars of merchandise and memorabilia to commemorate such an event. Not this year. I didn't spend one red cent. Maybe I'll be back again next year looking for my fix. But I think it's just as likely I'm off to find greener pastures next Fall. #### got old real quick.

 
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All the deflategate talk, ESPN mediots bashing the Pats, the unfolding mess that has become the NFL's investigation and handling of the process has only made the SB win all that much sweeter for me. A giant FU to all the haters.This title is neck and neck with the first one for me in terms of enjoyment.

 
Oh yes, just interested in the NFL, lol. Thanks for giving them a "bit" of the benefit of the doubt. Strange that you assume their guilt based on an old interview and your own assumptions- and guilty in the end regardless of what the NFl does, just what they want. But you love the NFL?? Confusing. I thought most Patriot haters scurried like roaches when a light is turned on but a few have regrouped apparently.

APOLOGIZE to Pats fans! To Kraft, Bellichick, all the PAtriots. All you haters should be lucky enough to kneel and kiss Bill's ring!
You guys are a riot.

One thing many people learned through all of this is to respect (most) Patriot fans less. Thanks for re-affirming that view.
I'm a Panthers fan and think this was a joke from the beginning. Those John Clayton quotes from Yudkin were hysterical. Always fun to see talking heads talk through both sides of their mouths and getting all up in arms with NE because it is more news. Miami doesn't matter, so who cares, kids being kids. That said, you are ridiculous in your blind hatred. Your "facts" above were your ability to read Tom Brady and determine the guilt. Comical, you know what most people have learned through all of this is that there are people out there who will believe anything including their own crazy thoughts. As the phrase goes, there is a sucker born every minute. Welcome to your minute.
Well, explain all of this to my Pats fans friends who have actually watched the interview.

And nobody said that was a fact. You just make stuff up.

Every one I know who saw that thinks they guy is guilty. Sorry, dont know what to tell you.

It was an awful moment for Brady.

PS He will absolutely be acquitted of this. I know, I know...you cant handle that kind of nuance. It must be black or white in your world.
The plural of the opinions of your friends is not 'data'.

 
Tango said:
Bayhawks said:
Tool said:
Oh yes, just interested in the NFL, lol. Thanks for giving them a "bit" of the benefit of the doubt. Strange that you assume their guilt based on an old interview and your own assumptions- and guilty in the end regardless of what the NFl does, just what they want. But you love the NFL?? Confusing. I thought most Patriot haters scurried like roaches when a light is turned on but a few have regrouped apparently.

APOLOGIZE to Pats fans! To Kraft, Bellichick, all the PAtriots. All you haters should be lucky enough to kneel and kiss Bill's ring!
You guys are a riot.

One thing many people learned through all of this is to respect (most) Patriot fans less. Thanks for re-affirming that view.
I'm a Panthers fan and think this was a joke from the beginning. Those John Clayton quotes from Yudkin were hysterical. Always fun to see talking heads talk through both sides of their mouths and getting all up in arms with NE because it is more news. Miami doesn't matter, so who cares, kids being kids. That said, you are ridiculous in your blind hatred. Your "facts" above were your ability to read Tom Brady and determine the guilt. Comical, you know what most people have learned through all of this is that there are people out there who will believe anything including their own crazy thoughts. As the phrase goes, there is a sucker born every minute. Welcome to your minute.
Well, explain all of this to my Pats fans friends who have actually watched the interview.

And nobody said that was a fact. You just make stuff up.


Every one I know who saw that thinks they guy is guilty. Sorry, dont know what to tell you.

It was an awful moment for Brady.

PS He will absolutely be acquitted of this. I know, I know...you cant handle that kind of nuance. It must be black or white in your world.
Convicting Brady based on that interview is presumptuous.

Your opinion is a convenient one. You're convinced he's guilty but that he will also be acquitted. So no matter what happens you will be right in your mind.
It's not black and white.

The Pats "prepare the balls" in such a way that the PSI might drop. They've admitted as much. They also inflate them to the lowest legal PSI, since Brady has expressed that is how he likes them. It is possible that Brady knew/knows that the way the Pats prepare the balls allows them to be under the legal limit (and that the officials don't always use a gauge to check them), so when he was talking in that interview, he was "careful" with how he answered his questions. If his answers didn't ring true to someone, that person could believe he was guilty, but know that his personal belief was not going to matter, and that Brady & the Pats will not be found guilty/punished for this situation.
I, for one, generally agree with this.

To me Brady's answer is tantamount to insinuating to many that he is bad as Brad Johnson was (or less; Johnson admitted to it as it relates to the SB after all). That crime is not a huge deal on a standalone basis really and many in here would agree with that. The difference to some, among some other things, is that Brady's disappointing denial is worse than the crime as far as his integrity is concerned.


In that interview Brady was given a very fair opportunity to say, "Hey, I had nothing to do with this". His answer then led me, Costas, Collinsworth, Ed Sherman, and any one else Ive seen report on it to say he has a credibility problem that pushes beyond reasonable doubt. I implore all the Patriots (and Panthers) fans and other...PLEASE, if there's a report out there that cites that interview as anything other than hurting Brady's credibility, please link it.
To be clear, I was trying to explain how your position (that he wasn't being honest, but wouldn't be found "guilty" of anything) was reasonable. I, personally, don't see the interview as any kind of "damning" evidence.

Again, the Pats (when BB gave his "science" presser) admitted that their preparation process may cause the PSI of the balls to drop. Brady has said, previously, that he likes the ball at the lower threshold of the NFL's limits. It would make sense to assume that they inflated the balls to the lowest PSI, "prepared" them, knowing they'd probably deflate some, and let the officials check/approve them. Based on what I know & have read, I don't think they did anything wrong. Maybe they took advantage of a loophole, maybe the officials didn't do their job, maybe it was a combination of both.

But Brady, in the interview, made sure he didn't lie. He told the truth, even if it wasn't the truth that you wanted to hear, or that would have "proven" his innocence to you. That doesn't make him a cheater, IMO.

 
I've watched the Brady / Costas interview several times now. I think it's quite possible that Brady was treating this interview just like every other one he's had as a Patriot over the years, where you are trained to say nothing, divulge nothing, and commit to nothing. Thing is, this wasn't an interview about football, it was an interview about Brady breaking the rules. So his "say nothing of substance" approach came off sounding hollow and inauthentic, which some people immediately interpret as guilt.
This is a damn good point. Stated much better than what I tried to say in my previous post. Brady didn't give any more information than he had to, because that is how he (and the Pats) seem to treat the media.

Who knows. I for one am more fascinated at all the people in this country with an absolute hard on trying to taint the Pats' achievements over the years. That's the bigger story here, and the one history will remember. It really is the 21st century version of the Salem witch hunts. People demonize that which they can't understand, and people can't understand how a team can remain so successful year after year in the salary cap era. And the hatred has turned people into raving idiots and caused them to lose all perspective. Pay no attention to the fact that the NFL is littered with wife beaters, child abusers, rapists and murderers. Not just a few people on the periphery. Star players - Roethlisberger, Rice, Hernandez, Peterson... Even the commentators are corrupt hypocrites. Nice touch with Warren Sapp manhandling a prostitute right after the conclusion of the Super Bowl. Glad guys like this are giving their "expert" opinions on the legacy of Tom Brady.
It's natural to root against the guy/team on top. That's why everyone loves the "Cinderella" teams during March Madness, it's why so many people root against the Yankees, etc. When you add into that BB's personality (that he shares with the public; he could be the greatest guy to people who really know him), it's easy to root against him. When you then add into that the perception of cheating, traced back to the spygate stuff, you have to admit it's not just "an absolute hard on trying to taint the Pats achievements." It happens to almost all great players/teams. Hell, in this very thread, there were NE fans who were #####ing about the Steelers of the 70s, Bill Walsh in the 80s, etc.

What's more, some NE fans make it easy to root against them (just as some Steeler fans, Cowboy fans, Seahawk fans, etc make it easy to root against them). I was trying to discuss the facts/science surrounding the "deflategate" situation, and a number of NE fans (I'm assuming) were insulting, defensive, etc because I was actually considering the possibility that the Pats could have been doing something wrong. Even after I posted that I was convinced they had done nothing wrong, there were ignorant posts made. After the game, in another thread, when I questioned a post that said BB game-planned to take advantage of Simon (due to the fact the he only got as much PT b/c of an injury), I was insulted, accused of trying to make excuses, etc. Again, I know this is not a trait exclusive to the Pats fans, nor is the small number of Pats fans who act this way indicative of the Pats fans, as a whole. However, vocal minorities like this make it easy to root against a team.

Finally, with regards to the media, they are trying to get hits on their blogs/websites & viewers to their shows. Talk about a SB team who may have possibly cheated is going to accomplish that much easier than discussing the Browns GM texting to the sidelines during games. Again, it's one of the things that comes with being one of the top NFL franchises.

 
Oh yes, just interested in the NFL, lol. Thanks for giving them a "bit" of the benefit of the doubt. Strange that you assume their guilt based on an old interview and your own assumptions- and guilty in the end regardless of what the NFl does, just what they want. But you love the NFL?? Confusing. I thought most Patriot haters scurried like roaches when a light is turned on but a few have regrouped apparently.

APOLOGIZE to Pats fans! To Kraft, Bellichick, all the PAtriots. All you haters should be lucky enough to kneel and kiss Bill's ring!
You guys are a riot.

One thing many people learned through all of this is to respect (most) Patriot fans less. Thanks for re-affirming that view.
I'm a Panthers fan and think this was a joke from the beginning. Those John Clayton quotes from Yudkin were hysterical. Always fun to see talking heads talk through both sides of their mouths and getting all up in arms with NE because it is more news. Miami doesn't matter, so who cares, kids being kids. That said, you are ridiculous in your blind hatred. Your "facts" above were your ability to read Tom Brady and determine the guilt. Comical, you know what most people have learned through all of this is that there are people out there who will believe anything including their own crazy thoughts. As the phrase goes, there is a sucker born every minute. Welcome to your minute.
[snipped by FE]

Who knows. I for one am more fascinated at all the people in this country with an absolute hard on trying to taint the Pats' achievements over the years. That's the bigger story here, and the one history will remember. It really is the 21st century version of the Salem witch hunts. People demonize that which they can't understand, and people can't understand how a team can remain so successful year after year in the salary cap era. And the hatred has turned people into raving idiots and caused them to lose all perspective. Pay no attention to the fact that the NFL is littered with wife beaters, child abusers, rapists and murderers. Not just a few people on the periphery. Star players - Roethlisberger, Rice, Hernandez, Peterson... Even the commentators are corrupt hypocrites. Nice touch with Warren Sapp manhandling a prostitute right after the conclusion of the Super Bowl. Glad guys like this are giving their "expert" opinions on the legacy of Tom Brady.

There is one lesson from Deflategate that I am absolutely certain of - the entire NFL - from the players to the owners to the idiots who cover the sport - EVERYONE is full of ####. Modern football was forged in the 60's in the height of Cold War paranoia, and this paranoia became institutionalized when lunatics like Hank Stramm started having his coaches comb the woods surrounding his team's practices, convinced his opponents were spying on him. You have egomaniacal coaches, testosterone overloaded players with one too many head injuries, and billionaire ultra-competitive owners all trying to play nice together in the sand box using an antiquated, poorly written rule book that is interpreted by part time officials who don't even have enough common sense to define what a catch is. And I've saved the best for last - the mediots who cover these fools. These guys have the best job in the world. They can write whatever they want, slander people daily with impunity, and if they are wrong all they have to do is say, "that's what my source told me" and - wait for it - they never have to reveal their source! It's like the ultimate hall pass. I have lost all respect for the media in this country, especially the sports media. These people are the lowest of the low - as worthwhile as #### on a bull. They are about one thing and one thing only - getting clicks, views and ratings - and the truth has no place whatsoever within that universe.

[snipped]
I see the media BS in this as such a major issue, but nobody seems to actually care that these media outlets have zero accountability and even less integrity. It's absurd, and should be a problem that's obvious but most people seem content to just feed off the teet of stupidity and run along for the ride without a single attempt at rational, original thought on a topic. Fascinating is a good word for it, but I think it has to carry a more nefarious adjective as well. Something along the lines of despicable works for me.

[sorry for the snip General, that was a long one. lol]

Also . . . "Well, I'm awake and I speak English, so I do know what you're saying." lmao - love that movie.

 
From time to time throughout this I've thought of Hedda Hopper and Louella Parsons in old time Hollywood. Ruining careers with their, "A little bird tells me...."

But I'm not giving the league a pass on any of this. Yet another unbelievable debacle. Goodell should go back to tending bar.

 
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.

 
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Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have won so much more than the other 31 teams in the league earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it they are hated for it That's not a scathing indictment of the conclusion Pats, it's more an example of human nature and the increased tendency in todays society to resent success. just an example (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, don't get all twisted about so many credible jealous and resentful people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding convincing themselves that even though Brady has repeatedly and emphatically denied doing anything wrong he didn't protest emphatically enough in this one interview so ipso facto he is guilty of something. These people are of course correct, Tom Brady is obviously guilty of something, he is guilty of winning too damn much. Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
Fixed

 
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have won so much more than the other 31 teams in the league earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it they are hated for it That's not a scathing indictment of the conclusion Pats, it's more an example of human nature and the increased tendency in todays society to resent success. just an example (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, don't get all twisted about so many credible jealous and resentful people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding convincing themselves that even though Brady has repeatedly and emphatically denied doing anything wrong he didn't protest emphatically enough in this one interview so ipso facto he is guilty of something. These people are of course correct, Tom Brady is obviously guilty of something, he is guilty of winning too damn much. Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
Fixed
Im told there's group therapy for this type of problem

 
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
Salty Haters have earned a rep for false accusations vs. the Patriots. Just in the past few weeks, the Salty Haters have come up with the following bogus accusations:

1) Illegal-Formation Gate: Ravens claim Patriots used illegal formations. Bzzzt, false. NFL said they were legal.

2) DeflateGate Part 1: Ravens claim Patriots deflated kicking balls. Bzzzt, false. Only refs handle kicking balls.

3) WaiverGate: Everyone claimed Patriots somehow made the Steelers cut Blount, made all the other teams not claim him on waivers, and then sign Blount as a FA. Bzzzt, false. Completely laughable.

4) DeflateGate, Part 2: Colts claim Patriots deflated balls. Still under investigation, but latest rumors say all but 1 balls just "a few ticks" under the minimum PSI, which could be explained by basic high school science. The ball handled by the Colts was a lot more deflated. Things that make you go hmmmm.

Salty Hater conclusion: Patriots have a pattern of cheating!

Real world conclusion: Salty Haters are delusional tinfoil hat-wearing crybabies. Patriots are SB champions and Salty Hater tears are so delicious! :lol:

 
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Salty Haters have earned a rep for false accusations vs. the Patriots. Just in the past few weeks, the Salty Haters have come up with the following bogus accusations:

1) Illegal-Formation Gate: Ravens claim Patriots used illegal formations. Bzzzt, false. NFL said they were legal.

2) DeflateGate Part 1: Ravens claim Patriots deflated kicking balls. Bzzzt, false. Only refs handle kicking balls.

3) WaiverGate: Everyone claimed Patriots somehow made the Steelers cut Blount, made all the other teams not claim him on waivers, and then sign Blount as a FA. Bzzzt, false. Completely laughable.

4) DeflateGate, Part 2: Colts claim Patriots deflated balls. Still under investigation, but latest rumors say all but 1 balls just "a few ticks" under the minimum PSI, which could be explained by basic high school science. The ball handled by the Colts was a lot more deflated. Things that make you go hmmmm.
You forgot the various sub-gates:

1)(a) DECEPTION!!

1)(b) No one has ever seen a formation like that. Bzzzt, false, as shown by people with knowledge of formations

1)© Pats didn't announce ineligible receivers in time. Bzzzt, false, as shown by tapes

1)(d) Refs didn't notify Ravens properly, and didn't know how to handle it. Bzzzt, false, refs notified Ravens and everyone else in attendance or watching at home

1)(e) Fine, it was all "technically legal", but cheap and not appropriately hardnosed football. I'd never want my team to win that way. Besides - DECEPTION!!

4)(a) Regular deflate-gate

4)(b) Bathroom-gate. Still under review, but kind of stupid

4)© Pats tried to introduce non-inspected K ball into game. Bzzzt, false, that was the NFL doing it, because in addition to being good leakers but terrible investigators, their employees are thieves.

 
Salty Haters have earned a rep for false accusations vs. the Patriots. Just in the past few weeks, the Salty Haters have come up with the following bogus accusations:

1) Illegal-Formation Gate: Ravens claim Patriots used illegal formations. Bzzzt, false. NFL said they were legal.

2) DeflateGate Part 1: Ravens claim Patriots deflated kicking balls. Bzzzt, false. Only refs handle kicking balls.

3) WaiverGate: Everyone claimed Patriots somehow made the Steelers cut Blount, made all the other teams not claim him on waivers, and then sign Blount as a FA. Bzzzt, false. Completely laughable.

4) DeflateGate, Part 2: Colts claim Patriots deflated balls. Still under investigation, but latest rumors say all but 1 balls just "a few ticks" under the minimum PSI, which could be explained by basic high school science. The ball handled by the Colts was a lot more deflated. Things that make you go hmmmm.
You forgot the various sub-gates:

1)(a) DECEPTION!!

1)(b) No one has ever seen a formation like that. Bzzzt, false, as shown by people with knowledge of formations

1)© Pats didn't announce ineligible receivers in time. Bzzzt, false, as shown by tapes

1)(d) Refs didn't notify Ravens properly, and didn't know how to handle it. Bzzzt, false, refs notified Ravens and everyone else in attendance or watching at home

1)(e) Fine, it was all "technically legal", but cheap and not appropriately hardnosed football. I'd never want my team to win that way. Besides - DECEPTION!!

4)(a) Regular deflate-gate

4)(b) Bathroom-gate. Still under review, but kind of stupid

4)© Pats tried to introduce non-inspected K ball into game. Bzzzt, false, that was the NFL doing it, because in addition to being good leakers but terrible investigators, their employees are thieves.
:goodposting: s

 
admission by Grigson:

Florio: "....in light of G.M. Ryan Grigsons admission that the Colts alerted the NFL to concerns about deflation in the days before the AFC title game. "

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/22/league-not-saying-whether-investigation-includes-whether-colts-deflated-ball/
That's old news. Grigson admitted that a week or so ago.

The importance of this admission is that we now know the NFL leadership was alerted to a potential problem affecting the competitive balance of play in an AFC Champiosnhip Game, and here's the way they handled it:

1. They didn't solve the problem by simply alerting the Patriots that the balls were going to monitored closely throughout the game.

2. Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge. If they were, the measurement results were not documented.

3. They allowed an NFL official who had a "pattern of behavior" of stealing game balls to be on the Patriots sideline.

4. The NFL Official proceeds to do exactly what the NFL was wary of, and steals a game ball during the game from the Patriots. When the Official knows he's in trouble, he tries to get Patriots Equipment Manager John McNally to introduce a non-approved K-ball into the game. The referee sees this as the Pats trying to play games and calls Mike Kensil from the NFL, who has been lying in wait for such an act by the Pats based on Grigson's warning.

5. Kensil himself apparently measures all the game balls at halftime. This is a direct violation of the Rulebook that says only game officials are allowed to handle balls from an approval and measurement standpoint.

6. Kensil apparently doesn't document the results of the halftime measurements.

7. After the game the leaks start coming out and the Patriots are put at a MAJOR disadvantage in the weeks leading up the Super Bowl. The initial leak to Chris Mortensen is that 11 of the 12 Patriot balls were significantly under inflated. This report goes unchallenged for a whole week, leading to the public perception that the Pats certainly deflated the balls.

8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 12.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.

9. Almost a full 4 weeks into the story, when the tide of public opinion beings turning in the Patriots' favor, Kelly Naqi from ESPN's Outside the Lines reports that Pats Equipment Manager John McNally tried to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. In another nice touch of classy reporting, Kelly tries to interview McNally at his home in New Hampshire. He politely tells her her can't comment on the NFL investigation (as mandated not by the Patriots, but by the ####### Wells Commission running the investigation) and Kelly reports this in her story with slanted wording implying that McNally was being uncooperative and dodgy.

10. Kelly is thoroughly embarrassed on the OTL TV segment where she and Bob Lee are discussing her investigative reporting when Schefter comes on and drops the bomb that the only reason McNally was introducing the unapproved k-ball was at the request of an NFL league official who was stealing game balls on the Patriots sidelines! She did 4 weeks of reporting, with a clear agenda and bias, and her story was completely blown up literally hours after it was released by a fellow ESPN employee!! You can't make this #### up.

11. Back to Kelly and the sources for her bogus story that did nothing but once again obfuscate the truth and cast a negative, guilt-assuming light on the Patriots. A Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing of his own and finds out that Naqi's husband used to work with, and is apparently still friendly with, get this - Mike Kensil. So it's pretty clear where the McNally story came from. For Kensil to leak that abridged version of the McNally story is unconscionable, and in my opinion not only enough for him to be fired over, but also potentially sued over. Kensil knew full well only a few days after the investigation that McNally was innocent. How do we know this? Because that's when the crooked official stealing footballs was fired by him!

CONCLUSION - the NFL set up a sting operation based on some unsubstantiated complaints it received from the Colts. The Colts concerns were probably brought to life by the Ravens and Harbaugh the prior week when they apparently were concerned about k balls feeling a little soft. The NFL assumed the Pats were guilty from the start, and laid in wait with a trap designed to catch them in the act. They did this knowing that in order to catch the Pats they would have to allow the fairness of an AFC Championship game to be compromised. Bottom line, Kensil had such a hard-on to nail the Pats that he gladly risked blowing up the legitimacy of the two most important games of the NFL season. Fireable offense #1. The sting itself was poorly executed with no measurements documented. Fireable offense #2. Kensil circumvented the NFL Rulebook and measured the balls himself at half time. Fireable offense #3. Lastly, and the worst offense in my opinion, is that Kensil provided directly, or allowed to occur, a series of leaks that were in many cases not true - all of which contained damning information against the Patriots. Fireable offense #4.

One caveat here - this is all based on reporting that we all know sucks beyond belief. Some of the above could be disproven when the report comes out. We'll have to wait and see. I have had an open mind on this issue from the beginning, and I still do. It is possible that that the Pats deflated some footballs. But based on my following of the story the last few weeks, I thinki it's much more likely that the Pats didn't deflate balls at all, and that they were totally screwed in this process. We shall see. Once thing's for sure, if the report is damning to the Pats it will be released during prime media time. If the report is supportive of the Pats, it will be released on a Friday afternoon or weekend when media attention is at its low point.

 
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8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 10.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.
That should be 12.5 which is the legal minimum with 13.5 being the legal maximum.McNally didn't fire anybody someone higher up then he did.

 
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If I may I would like to add something to numbers 9 & 10.

I am going to paraphrase, but from what I understand, Bob Ley also interviewed some retired referee who ominously claimed that in all his years he had never seen the officials locker room attendant out on the field (Mcnally) and on the teams sideline between the 30s. He went on to say that years ago he had personally observed Mcnally and Brady tossing a ball around before the game and he had never ever seen that (attendant and a teams qb tossing the ball). He also said something to the effect that he didn't remember what game it was or who the official was (but somehow he remembers Mcnally:)). This retired ref was adamant that the pats were acting nefariously.

Some time later (not sure if it was the next day) and again i will paraphrase, Ley interviewed another ex ref who basically said the other ex ref was full of crap and none of it was really out of the ordinary. Shortly thereafter I believe schefters report came out and the whole thing dissapeared with a puff a smoke.

I bring it up to help emphasize the FACT that there is an endless supply of pats hating dbs out there who are willing to lie and say anything to help promote the narrative. Sadly, like the ex referee, some of them work for or previously worked for or were in the nfl and the media is only to happy to give them all a platform and promote "the pats win too much and must be cheating" narrative.

 
8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 10.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.
That should be 12.5 which is the legal minimum with 13.5 being the legal maximum.McNally didn't fire anybody someone higher up then he did.
Thanks. Good catch there. Typo. I fixed it.

 
If I may I would like to add something to numbers 9 & 10.

I am going to paraphrase, but from what I understand, Bob Ley also interviewed some retired referee who ominously claimed that in all his years he had never seen the officials locker room attendant out on the field (Mcnally) and on the teams sideline between the 30s. He went on to say that years ago he had personally observed Mcnally and Brady tossing a ball around before the game and he had never ever seen that (attendant and a teams qb tossing the ball). He also said something to the effect that he didn't remember what game it was or who the official was (but somehow he remembers Mcnally:)). This retired ref was adamant that the pats were acting nefariously.

Some time later (not sure if it was the next day) and again i will paraphrase, Ley interviewed another ex ref who basically said the other ex ref was full of crap and none of it was really out of the ordinary. Shortly thereafter I believe schefters report came out and the whole thing dissapeared with a puff a smoke.

I bring it up to help emphasize the FACT that there is an endless supply of pats hating dbs out there who are willing to lie and say anything to help promote the narrative. Sadly, like the ex referee, some of them work for or previously worked for or were in the nfl and the media is only to happy to give them all a platform and promote "the pats win too much and must be cheating" narrative.
Good add-ons, NE_Revival. There are countless other examples of EXTREME media bias when "reporting" on this story. My personal favorite was when Kelly Naqi, as background to her OTL story, mentioned the Patriot ball boy "ducking" into the bathroom for 90 seconds. Really... He was "ducking" was he? So I take it she observed the Patriots' video that was handed over the Wells Commission? And what does "ducking" look like, exactly? It conjures up the image of a guy looking over his shoulder to see if anyone is watching and then pulling the brim of his cap down to cover his face. Or perhaps she went with the word "ducking" because she was still butt-hurt that McNally "ducked" her questions after she drove all the way up to his home in New Hampshire to interview him LOL.

 
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That retired referee's home state Indiana. :lmao:
I normally don't like to pick on a particular city or fanbase, but the biggest loser in this entire "scandal" has to be the city of Indianapolis and the Colts. That ex-referee (who clearly had an axe to grind), Kravitz, Grigson, Irsay... my gosh what an unlikeable bunch of losers. That team never deserved a class guy like Peyton Manning, and they certainly didn't deserve Andrew Luck either given the way they tanked to get him.

Good to see them outing themselves like this, albeit strange...

 
General Tso said:
admission by Grigson:

Florio: "....in light of G.M. Ryan Grigsons admission that the Colts alerted the NFL to concerns about deflation in the days before the AFC title game. "

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/22/league-not-saying-whether-investigation-includes-whether-colts-deflated-ball/
That's old news. Grigson admitted that a week or so ago.

The importance of this admission is that we now know the NFL leadership was alerted to a potential problem affecting the competitive balance of play in an AFC Champiosnhip Game, and here's the way they handled it:

1. They didn't solve the problem by simply alerting the Patriots that the balls were going to monitored closely throughout the game.

2. Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge. If they were, the measurement results were not documented.

3. They allowed an NFL official who had a "pattern of behavior" of stealing game balls to be on the Patriots sideline.

4. The NFL Official proceeds to do exactly what the NFL was wary of, and steals a game ball during the game from the Patriots. When the Official knows he's in trouble, he tries to get Patriots Equipment Manager John McNally to introduce a non-approved K-ball into the game. The referee sees this as the Pats trying to play games and calls Mike Kensil from the NFL, who has been lying in wait for such an act by the Pats based on Grigson's warning.

5. Kensil himself apparently measures all the game balls at halftime. This is a direct violation of the Rulebook that says only game officials are allowed to handle balls from an approval and measurement standpoint.

6. Kensil apparently doesn't document the results of the halftime measurements.

7. After the game the leaks start coming out and the Patriots are put at a MAJOR disadvantage in the weeks leading up the Super Bowl. The initial leak to Chris Mortensen is that 11 of the 12 Patriot balls were significantly under inflated. This report goes unchallenged for a whole week, leading to the public perception that the Pats certainly deflated the balls.

8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 12.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.

9. Almost a full 4 weeks into the story, when the tide of public opinion beings turning in the Patriots' favor, Kelly Naqi from ESPN's Outside the Lines reports that Pats Equipment Manager John McNally tried to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. In another nice touch of classy reporting, Kelly tries to interview McNally at his home in New Hampshire. He politely tells her her can't comment on the NFL investigation (as mandated not by the Patriots, but by the ####### Wells Commission running the investigation) and Kelly reports this in her story with slanted wording implying that McNally was being uncooperative and dodgy.

10. Kelly is thoroughly embarrassed on the OTL TV segment where she and Bob Lee are discussing her investigative reporting when Schefter comes on and drops the bomb that the only reason McNally was introducing the unapproved k-ball was at the request of an NFL league official who was stealing game balls on the Patriots sidelines! She did 4 weeks of reporting, with a clear agenda and bias, and her story was completely blown up literally hours after it was released by a fellow ESPN employee!! You can't make this #### up.

11. Back to Kelly and the sources for her bogus story that did nothing but once again obfuscate the truth and cast a negative, guilt-assuming light on the Patriots. A Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing of his own and finds out that Naqi's husband used to work with, and is apparently still friendly with, get this - Mike Kensil. So it's pretty clear where the McNally story came from. For Kensil to leak that abridged version of the McNally story is unconscionable, and in my opinion not only enough for him to be fired over, but also potentially sued over. Kensil knew full well only a few days after the investigation that McNally was innocent. How do we know this? Because that's when the crooked official stealing footballs was fired by him!

CONCLUSION - the NFL set up a sting operation based on some unsubstantiated complaints it received from the Colts. The Colts concerns were probably brought to life by the Ravens and Harbaugh the prior week when they apparently were concerned about k balls feeling a little soft. The NFL assumed the Pats were guilty from the start, and laid in wait with a trap designed to catch them in the act. They did this knowing that in order to catch the Pats they would have to allow the fairness of an AFC Championship game to be compromised. Bottom line, Kensil had such a hard-on to nail the Pats that he gladly risked blowing up the legitimacy of the two most important games of the NFL season. Fireable offense #1. The sting itself was poorly executed with no measurements documented. Fireable offense #2. Kensil circumvented the NFL Rulebook and measured the balls himself at half time. Fireable offense #3. Lastly, and the worst offense in my opinion, is that Kensil provided directly, or allowed to occur, a series of leaks that were in many cases not true - all of which contained damning information against the Patriots. Fireable offense #4.

One caveat here - this is all based on reporting that we all know sucks beyond belief. Some of the above could be disproven when the report comes out. We'll have to wait and see. I have had an open mind on this issue from the beginning, and I still do. It is possible that that the Pats deflated some footballs. But based on my following of the story the last few weeks, I thinki it's much more likely that the Pats didn't deflate balls at all, and that they were totally screwed in this process. We shall see. Once thing's for sure, if the report is damning to the Pats it will be released during prime media time. If the report is supportive of the Pats, it will be released on a Friday afternoon or weekend when media attention is at its low point.
At the risk of being attacked for being a "salty hater," isn't this what Pats fans were so angry about during the initial deflate-gate reporting? That is, taking an incomplete set of facts, and jumping to a (biased) conclusion based on those facts?

We don't know if the balls were gauged before the games (unless there is a definitive report on that that I have not seen), but you use this as point #2 (Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge.)

You cite reports saying that the Pats balls were all just slightly under-inflated, save the ball the Colts had. Again, unless I missed something, there has been no definitive report that this is the case. It is the latest report, but (due to the Wells report request for "no more leaks") as far as I know, the NFL hasn't confirmed this. Please correct me if this is inaccurate.

Naqi's source for her story must be Kensil, because (in your words) a "Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing." Based on this, you feel Kensil should be fired. Based on a link made by a Patriot's fan, that while possibly true, hasn't been confirmed (or even reported anywhere, other than this thread)?

Now, I think that most (maybe all) of your assumptions are correct, but until they are verified (hopefully when the Wells investigation is done), that is all they are-assumptions. When people assumed the Pats cheated (based on unverified, and it seems, inaccurate reports), Pats fans were up in arms. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, assumptions based on unverified reports/reporting is acceptable?

 
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General Tso said:
admission by Grigson:

Florio: "....in light of G.M. Ryan Grigsons admission that the Colts alerted the NFL to concerns about deflation in the days before the AFC title game. "

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/22/league-not-saying-whether-investigation-includes-whether-colts-deflated-ball/
That's old news. Grigson admitted that a week or so ago.

The importance of this admission is that we now know the NFL leadership was alerted to a potential problem affecting the competitive balance of play in an AFC Champiosnhip Game, and here's the way they handled it:

1. They didn't solve the problem by simply alerting the Patriots that the balls were going to monitored closely throughout the game.

2. Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge. If they were, the measurement results were not documented.

3. They allowed an NFL official who had a "pattern of behavior" of stealing game balls to be on the Patriots sideline.

4. The NFL Official proceeds to do exactly what the NFL was wary of, and steals a game ball during the game from the Patriots. When the Official knows he's in trouble, he tries to get Patriots Equipment Manager John McNally to introduce a non-approved K-ball into the game. The referee sees this as the Pats trying to play games and calls Mike Kensil from the NFL, who has been lying in wait for such an act by the Pats based on Grigson's warning.

5. Kensil himself apparently measures all the game balls at halftime. This is a direct violation of the Rulebook that says only game officials are allowed to handle balls from an approval and measurement standpoint.

6. Kensil apparently doesn't document the results of the halftime measurements.

7. After the game the leaks start coming out and the Patriots are put at a MAJOR disadvantage in the weeks leading up the Super Bowl. The initial leak to Chris Mortensen is that 11 of the 12 Patriot balls were significantly under inflated. This report goes unchallenged for a whole week, leading to the public perception that the Pats certainly deflated the balls.

8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 12.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.

9. Almost a full 4 weeks into the story, when the tide of public opinion beings turning in the Patriots' favor, Kelly Naqi from ESPN's Outside the Lines reports that Pats Equipment Manager John McNally tried to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. In another nice touch of classy reporting, Kelly tries to interview McNally at his home in New Hampshire. He politely tells her her can't comment on the NFL investigation (as mandated not by the Patriots, but by the ####### Wells Commission running the investigation) and Kelly reports this in her story with slanted wording implying that McNally was being uncooperative and dodgy.

10. Kelly is thoroughly embarrassed on the OTL TV segment where she and Bob Lee are discussing her investigative reporting when Schefter comes on and drops the bomb that the only reason McNally was introducing the unapproved k-ball was at the request of an NFL league official who was stealing game balls on the Patriots sidelines! She did 4 weeks of reporting, with a clear agenda and bias, and her story was completely blown up literally hours after it was released by a fellow ESPN employee!! You can't make this #### up.

11. Back to Kelly and the sources for her bogus story that did nothing but once again obfuscate the truth and cast a negative, guilt-assuming light on the Patriots. A Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing of his own and finds out that Naqi's husband used to work with, and is apparently still friendly with, get this - Mike Kensil. So it's pretty clear where the McNally story came from. For Kensil to leak that abridged version of the McNally story is unconscionable, and in my opinion not only enough for him to be fired over, but also potentially sued over. Kensil knew full well only a few days after the investigation that McNally was innocent. How do we know this? Because that's when the crooked official stealing footballs was fired by him!

CONCLUSION - the NFL set up a sting operation based on some unsubstantiated complaints it received from the Colts. The Colts concerns were probably brought to life by the Ravens and Harbaugh the prior week when they apparently were concerned about k balls feeling a little soft. The NFL assumed the Pats were guilty from the start, and laid in wait with a trap designed to catch them in the act. They did this knowing that in order to catch the Pats they would have to allow the fairness of an AFC Championship game to be compromised. Bottom line, Kensil had such a hard-on to nail the Pats that he gladly risked blowing up the legitimacy of the two most important games of the NFL season. Fireable offense #1. The sting itself was poorly executed with no measurements documented. Fireable offense #2. Kensil circumvented the NFL Rulebook and measured the balls himself at half time. Fireable offense #3. Lastly, and the worst offense in my opinion, is that Kensil provided directly, or allowed to occur, a series of leaks that were in many cases not true - all of which contained damning information against the Patriots. Fireable offense #4.

One caveat here - this is all based on reporting that we all know sucks beyond belief. Some of the above could be disproven when the report comes out. We'll have to wait and see. I have had an open mind on this issue from the beginning, and I still do. It is possible that that the Pats deflated some footballs. But based on my following of the story the last few weeks, I thinki it's much more likely that the Pats didn't deflate balls at all, and that they were totally screwed in this process. We shall see. Once thing's for sure, if the report is damning to the Pats it will be released during prime media time. If the report is supportive of the Pats, it will be released on a Friday afternoon or weekend when media attention is at its low point.
At the risk of being attacked for being a "salty hater," isn't this what Pats fans were so angry about during the initial deflate-gate reporting? That is, taking an incomplete set of facts, and jumping to a (biased) conclusion based on those facts?

We don't know if the balls were gauged before the games (unless there is a definitive report on that that I have not seen), but you use this as point #2 (Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge.)

You cite reports saying that the Pats balls were all just slightly under-inflated, save the ball the Colts had. Again, unless I missed something, there has been no definitive report that this is the case. It is the latest report, but (due to the Wells report request for "no more leaks") as far as I know, the NFL hasn't confirmed this. Please correct me if this is inaccurate.

Naqi's source for her story must be Kensil, because (in your words) a "Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing." Based on this, you feel Kensil should be fired. Based on a link made by a Patriot's fan, that while possibly true, hasn't been confirmed (or even reported anywhere, other than this thread)?

Now, I think that most (maybe all) of your assumptions are correct, but until they are verified (hopefully when the Wells investigation is done), that is all they are-assumptions. When people assumed the Pats cheated (based on unverified, and it seems, inaccurate reports), Pats fans were up in arms. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, assumptions based on unverified reports/reporting is acceptable?
You're 100% correct Hawk, hence my caveat at the end. I have in a sense violated one of my own principles in calling for Kensil's head with limited information, but I'd say two things in that regard...

1. I am doing this as clearly noted speculation and my own personal opinion on a Footballguys message board. Professionals in the media have jumped to far worse conclusions based on fewer reports than I have cited, and posted their conclusions on television and Twitter, with far more damaging consequences.

2. The NFL is running the show here. They are the only ones privy to the results of the investigation and have enormous power to control the narrative. The leaks are their responsibility, plain and simple. And the leaks themselves are what have allowed the Patriots to be tried and convicted already in the court of public opinion, and to be severely distracted in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. The NFL's lack of action to stop the leaks, or provide correction to known false leaks being reported on their own Network, is what is so alarming here. You know damn well that Kenisl was contacted by Naqi for her story, since he himself was one of the the focal points of her story (ie - kensil measured the balls at halftime). And he did not stop the story from running with the entirely incorrect foundation that McNally was nefariously trying to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. That alone is a fireable offense, and one that should land his sorry ### in court for allowing an innocent man to be hung out to dry.

I found this on another site, but I thought it was appropriate for posting here. Here is what we DO KNOW right now:

1. Some footballs were measured during the Colts playoff game and found to be below the minimum air pressure spec (because, Wells investigation).

2. The Laws of Physics state that warm footballs will lose air pressure when they get colder.

3. The barrage of Deflategate leaks was coming from the league office (because many of the reporters said so, and so did Kraft).

4. Kensil was the "game day official" at the Colts game.

5. Kraft, who immediately admitted guilt in the case of Spygate, has denied any role in deflating footballs.

6. Kraft felt strongly enough about it to demand an apology if the investigation can't find clear evidence of Patriot wrongdoing.

7. Even though there appears to be a different (and NFL-implicating) explanation, somebody leaked a story about a Pats employee trying to manipulate k-balls during the same Colts game.

8. With respect to the same scandal, we know a league employee was fired for his role in stealing k-balls.

 
If I may I would like to add something to numbers 9 & 10.

I am going to paraphrase, but from what I understand, Bob Ley also interviewed some retired referee who ominously claimed that in all his years he had never seen the officials locker room attendant out on the field (Mcnally) and on the teams sideline between the 30s. He went on to say that years ago he had personally observed Mcnally and Brady tossing a ball around before the game and he had never ever seen that (attendant and a teams qb tossing the ball). He also said something to the effect that he didn't remember what game it was or who the official was (but somehow he remembers Mcnally:)). This retired ref was adamant that the pats were acting nefariously.

Some time later (not sure if it was the next day) and again i will paraphrase, Ley interviewed another ex ref who basically said the other ex ref was full of crap and none of it was really out of the ordinary. Shortly thereafter I believe schefters report came out and the whole thing dissapeared with a puff a smoke.

I bring it up to help emphasize the FACT that there is an endless supply of pats hating dbs out there who are willing to lie and say anything to help promote the narrative. Sadly, like the ex referee, some of them work for or previously worked for or were in the nfl and the media is only to happy to give them all a platform and promote "the pats win too much and must be cheating" narrative.
This was actually like 30 mins apart.

So the day Mcnally stuff went done (cause it broke at 9pm the night before), OTL on ESPN had Kelly Naqi on, she basically just spent 10 minutes saying she can't say they did something but what they saw was suspicious - what they saw specifically being that Mcnally tried to introduce an unmarked ball.

Then they had a former official on, an official who was let go for no specific reason and had since filed a grievance with the league - this guy spent 10 minutes basically spinning tales about Mcnally as described by NE_REVIVAL about how his relationship with Tom Brady always struck him as suspicious and that he had never seen anyone like that at any other team or stadium.

Then they had Jim Daopoulos on, a former game official of 11 years, and another 12 years as a supervisor of officiating and he came right out and said none of what the other official or Naqi said was in the least bit suspicious. Later they brought Naqi back on and she back pedaled so hard, specifying that she wasn't accusing the Patriots or Jim Mcnally of anything and simply reporting that Jim Mcnally attempted to submit an unmarked gameball.

 
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General Tso said:
admission by Grigson:

Florio: "....in light of G.M. Ryan Grigsons admission that the Colts alerted the NFL to concerns about deflation in the days before the AFC title game. "

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/22/league-not-saying-whether-investigation-includes-whether-colts-deflated-ball/
That's old news. Grigson admitted that a week or so ago.The importance of this admission is that we now know the NFL leadership was alerted to a potential problem affecting the competitive balance of play in an AFC Champiosnhip Game, and here's the way they handled it:

1. They didn't solve the problem by simply alerting the Patriots that the balls were going to monitored closely throughout the game.

2. Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge. If they were, the measurement results were not documented.

3. They allowed an NFL official who had a "pattern of behavior" of stealing game balls to be on the Patriots sideline.

4. The NFL Official proceeds to do exactly what the NFL was wary of, and steals a game ball during the game from the Patriots. When the Official knows he's in trouble, he tries to get Patriots Equipment Manager John McNally to introduce a non-approved K-ball into the game. The referee sees this as the Pats trying to play games and calls Mike Kensil from the NFL, who has been lying in wait for such an act by the Pats based on Grigson's warning.

5. Kensil himself apparently measures all the game balls at halftime. This is a direct violation of the Rulebook that says only game officials are allowed to handle balls from an approval and measurement standpoint.

6. Kensil apparently doesn't document the results of the halftime measurements.

7. After the game the leaks start coming out and the Patriots are put at a MAJOR disadvantage in the weeks leading up the Super Bowl. The initial leak to Chris Mortensen is that 11 of the 12 Patriot balls were significantly under inflated. This report goes unchallenged for a whole week, leading to the public perception that the Pats certainly deflated the balls.

8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 12.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.

9. Almost a full 4 weeks into the story, when the tide of public opinion beings turning in the Patriots' favor, Kelly Naqi from ESPN's Outside the Lines reports that Pats Equipment Manager John McNally tried to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. In another nice touch of classy reporting, Kelly tries to interview McNally at his home in New Hampshire. He politely tells her her can't comment on the NFL investigation (as mandated not by the Patriots, but by the ####### Wells Commission running the investigation) and Kelly reports this in her story with slanted wording implying that McNally was being uncooperative and dodgy.

10. Kelly is thoroughly embarrassed on the OTL TV segment where she and Bob Lee are discussing her investigative reporting when Schefter comes on and drops the bomb that the only reason McNally was introducing the unapproved k-ball was at the request of an NFL league official who was stealing game balls on the Patriots sidelines! She did 4 weeks of reporting, with a clear agenda and bias, and her story was completely blown up literally hours after it was released by a fellow ESPN employee!! You can't make this #### up.

11. Back to Kelly and the sources for her bogus story that did nothing but once again obfuscate the truth and cast a negative, guilt-assuming light on the Patriots. A Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing of his own and finds out that Naqi's husband used to work with, and is apparently still friendly with, get this - Mike Kensil. So it's pretty clear where the McNally story came from. For Kensil to leak that abridged version of the McNally story is unconscionable, and in my opinion not only enough for him to be fired over, but also potentially sued over. Kensil knew full well only a few days after the investigation that McNally was innocent. How do we know this? Because that's when the crooked official stealing footballs was fired by him!

CONCLUSION - the NFL set up a sting operation based on some unsubstantiated complaints it received from the Colts. The Colts concerns were probably brought to life by the Ravens and Harbaugh the prior week when they apparently were concerned about k balls feeling a little soft. The NFL assumed the Pats were guilty from the start, and laid in wait with a trap designed to catch them in the act. They did this knowing that in order to catch the Pats they would have to allow the fairness of an AFC Championship game to be compromised. Bottom line, Kensil had such a hard-on to nail the Pats that he gladly risked blowing up the legitimacy of the two most important games of the NFL season. Fireable offense #1. The sting itself was poorly executed with no measurements documented. Fireable offense #2. Kensil circumvented the NFL Rulebook and measured the balls himself at half time. Fireable offense #3. Lastly, and the worst offense in my opinion, is that Kensil provided directly, or allowed to occur, a series of leaks that were in many cases not true - all of which contained damning information against the Patriots. Fireable offense #4.

One caveat here - this is all based on reporting that we all know sucks beyond belief. Some of the above could be disproven when the report comes out. We'll have to wait and see. I have had an open mind on this issue from the beginning, and I still do. It is possible that that the Pats deflated some footballs. But based on my following of the story the last few weeks, I thinki it's much more likely that the Pats didn't deflate balls at all, and that they were totally screwed in this process. We shall see. Once thing's for sure, if the report is damning to the Pats it will be released during prime media time. If the report is supportive of the Pats, it will be released on a Friday afternoon or weekend when media attention is at its low point.
At the risk of being attacked for being a "salty hater," isn't this what Pats fans were so angry about during the initial deflate-gate reporting? That is, taking an incomplete set of facts, and jumping to a (biased) conclusion based on those facts?We don't know if the balls were gauged before the games (unless there is a definitive report on that that I have not seen), but you use this as point #2 (Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge.)

You cite reports saying that the Pats balls were all just slightly under-inflated, save the ball the Colts had. Again, unless I missed something, there has been no definitive report that this is the case. It is the latest report, but (due to the Wells report request for "no more leaks") as far as I know, the NFL hasn't confirmed this. Please correct me if this is inaccurate.

Naqi's source for her story must be Kensil, because (in your words) a "Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing." Based on this, you feel Kensil should be fired. Based on a link made by a Patriot's fan, that while possibly true, hasn't been confirmed (or even reported anywhere, other than this thread)?

Now, I think that most (maybe all) of your assumptions are correct, but until they are verified (hopefully when the Wells investigation is done), that is all they are-assumptions. When people assumed the Pats cheated (based on unverified, and it seems, inaccurate reports), Pats fans were up in arms. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, assumptions based on unverified reports/reporting is acceptable?
You're 100% correct Hawk, hence my caveat at the end. I have in a sense violated one of my own principles in calling for Kensil's head with limited information, but I'd say two things in that regard...1. I am doing this as clearly noted speculation and my own personal opinion on a Footballguys message board. Professionals in the media have jumped to far worse conclusions based on fewer reports than I have cited, and posted their conclusions on television and Twitter, with far more damaging consequences.

2. The NFL is running the show here. They are the only ones privy to the results of the investigation and have enormous power to control the narrative. The leaks are their responsibility, plain and simple. And the leaks themselves are what have allowed the Patriots to be tried and convicted already in the court of public opinion, and to be severely distracted in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. The NFL's lack of action to stop the leaks, or provide correction to known false leaks being reported on their own Network, is what is so alarming here. You know damn well that Kenisl was contacted by Naqi for her story, since he himself was one of the the focal points of her story (ie - kensil measured the balls at halftime). And he did not stop the story from running with the entirely incorrect foundation that McNally was nefariously trying to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. That alone is a fireable offense, and one that should land his sorry ### in court for allowing an innocent man to be hung out to dry.

I found this on another site, but I thought it was appropriate for posting here. Here is what we DO KNOW right now:

1. Some footballs were measured during the Colts playoff game and found to be below the minimum air pressure spec (because, Wells investigation).

2. The Laws of Physics state that warm footballs will lose air pressure when they get colder.

3. The barrage of Deflategate leaks was coming from the league office (because many of the reporters said so, and so did Kraft).

4. Kensil was the "game day official" at the Colts game.

5. Kraft, who immediately admitted guilt in the case of Spygate, has denied any role in deflating footballs.

6. Kraft felt strongly enough about it to demand an apology if the investigation can't find clear evidence of Patriot wrongdoing.

7. Even though there appears to be a different (and NFL-implicating) explanation, somebody leaked a story about a Pats employee trying to manipulate k-balls during the same Colts game.

8. With respect to the same scandal, we know a league employee was fired for his role in stealing k-balls.
Again, I think your interpretation of the events is probably pretty close to what happened; I just find it ironic that many Pats fans were initially saying unless it can be proven (with video, eyewitness testimony, or some other "iron clad" proof) that the Pats deflated the balls, they should be absolved of any guilt, and now many are demanding Goodells job, Kensils job, public apologies, etc before there is any REAL evidence that these things are warranted.
 
I get what you're saying, Bayhawks, and agree. It's just human nature, though. People tend to take material they agree with and run with it without worrying too much about the source. People tend to take material they don't agree with and attack the source without worrying too much about the content. It happened with both sides in this thread, plain as day. It happens in nearly every political, ideological, or religious thread as well.

There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. There were some good, level-headed anti-Patriot (for lack of a better phrase that doesn't involve some kind of table spice) posts, and some good, level-headed Patriot fan posts. I'm a Pats fan, but I think Tango and Bayhawk make pretty good points. I don't like that idea that Tango might be right, that the Patriots might well have crossed a line, but he certainly could be. It's hard to trust any of these leaks at this point, even if my first instinct is to want to trust all of the Patriot-leaning ones and bash anything anti-Patriot.

 
General Tso said:
admission by Grigson:

Florio: "....in light of G.M. Ryan Grigsons admission that the Colts alerted the NFL to concerns about deflation in the days before the AFC title game. "

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/22/league-not-saying-whether-investigation-includes-whether-colts-deflated-ball/
That's old news. Grigson admitted that a week or so ago.The importance of this admission is that we now know the NFL leadership was alerted to a potential problem affecting the competitive balance of play in an AFC Champiosnhip Game, and here's the way they handled it:

1. They didn't solve the problem by simply alerting the Patriots that the balls were going to monitored closely throughout the game.

2. Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge. If they were, the measurement results were not documented.

3. They allowed an NFL official who had a "pattern of behavior" of stealing game balls to be on the Patriots sideline.

4. The NFL Official proceeds to do exactly what the NFL was wary of, and steals a game ball during the game from the Patriots. When the Official knows he's in trouble, he tries to get Patriots Equipment Manager John McNally to introduce a non-approved K-ball into the game. The referee sees this as the Pats trying to play games and calls Mike Kensil from the NFL, who has been lying in wait for such an act by the Pats based on Grigson's warning.

5. Kensil himself apparently measures all the game balls at halftime. This is a direct violation of the Rulebook that says only game officials are allowed to handle balls from an approval and measurement standpoint.

6. Kensil apparently doesn't document the results of the halftime measurements.

7. After the game the leaks start coming out and the Patriots are put at a MAJOR disadvantage in the weeks leading up the Super Bowl. The initial leak to Chris Mortensen is that 11 of the 12 Patriot balls were significantly under inflated. This report goes unchallenged for a whole week, leading to the public perception that the Pats certainly deflated the balls.

8. A full week later it is reported that Mort's report was incorrect - that only one ball was significantly under inflated and that was the ball intercepted and handled by the Colts. Every other Pats ball was either at 12.5 of just a few ticks below it - which would not only be explainable by science, but predicted by it.

9. Almost a full 4 weeks into the story, when the tide of public opinion beings turning in the Patriots' favor, Kelly Naqi from ESPN's Outside the Lines reports that Pats Equipment Manager John McNally tried to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. In another nice touch of classy reporting, Kelly tries to interview McNally at his home in New Hampshire. He politely tells her her can't comment on the NFL investigation (as mandated not by the Patriots, but by the ####### Wells Commission running the investigation) and Kelly reports this in her story with slanted wording implying that McNally was being uncooperative and dodgy.

10. Kelly is thoroughly embarrassed on the OTL TV segment where she and Bob Lee are discussing her investigative reporting when Schefter comes on and drops the bomb that the only reason McNally was introducing the unapproved k-ball was at the request of an NFL league official who was stealing game balls on the Patriots sidelines! She did 4 weeks of reporting, with a clear agenda and bias, and her story was completely blown up literally hours after it was released by a fellow ESPN employee!! You can't make this #### up.

11. Back to Kelly and the sources for her bogus story that did nothing but once again obfuscate the truth and cast a negative, guilt-assuming light on the Patriots. A Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing of his own and finds out that Naqi's husband used to work with, and is apparently still friendly with, get this - Mike Kensil. So it's pretty clear where the McNally story came from. For Kensil to leak that abridged version of the McNally story is unconscionable, and in my opinion not only enough for him to be fired over, but also potentially sued over. Kensil knew full well only a few days after the investigation that McNally was innocent. How do we know this? Because that's when the crooked official stealing footballs was fired by him!

CONCLUSION - the NFL set up a sting operation based on some unsubstantiated complaints it received from the Colts. The Colts concerns were probably brought to life by the Ravens and Harbaugh the prior week when they apparently were concerned about k balls feeling a little soft. The NFL assumed the Pats were guilty from the start, and laid in wait with a trap designed to catch them in the act. They did this knowing that in order to catch the Pats they would have to allow the fairness of an AFC Championship game to be compromised. Bottom line, Kensil had such a hard-on to nail the Pats that he gladly risked blowing up the legitimacy of the two most important games of the NFL season. Fireable offense #1. The sting itself was poorly executed with no measurements documented. Fireable offense #2. Kensil circumvented the NFL Rulebook and measured the balls himself at half time. Fireable offense #3. Lastly, and the worst offense in my opinion, is that Kensil provided directly, or allowed to occur, a series of leaks that were in many cases not true - all of which contained damning information against the Patriots. Fireable offense #4.

One caveat here - this is all based on reporting that we all know sucks beyond belief. Some of the above could be disproven when the report comes out. We'll have to wait and see. I have had an open mind on this issue from the beginning, and I still do. It is possible that that the Pats deflated some footballs. But based on my following of the story the last few weeks, I thinki it's much more likely that the Pats didn't deflate balls at all, and that they were totally screwed in this process. We shall see. Once thing's for sure, if the report is damning to the Pats it will be released during prime media time. If the report is supportive of the Pats, it will be released on a Friday afternoon or weekend when media attention is at its low point.
At the risk of being attacked for being a "salty hater," isn't this what Pats fans were so angry about during the initial deflate-gate reporting? That is, taking an incomplete set of facts, and jumping to a (biased) conclusion based on those facts?We don't know if the balls were gauged before the games (unless there is a definitive report on that that I have not seen), but you use this as point #2 (Apparently the balls were not measured adequately before the game. There is some question if they were all measured using a gauge.)

You cite reports saying that the Pats balls were all just slightly under-inflated, save the ball the Colts had. Again, unless I missed something, there has been no definitive report that this is the case. It is the latest report, but (due to the Wells report request for "no more leaks") as far as I know, the NFL hasn't confirmed this. Please correct me if this is inaccurate.

Naqi's source for her story must be Kensil, because (in your words) a "Patriot's fan does some internet sleuthing." Based on this, you feel Kensil should be fired. Based on a link made by a Patriot's fan, that while possibly true, hasn't been confirmed (or even reported anywhere, other than this thread)?

Now, I think that most (maybe all) of your assumptions are correct, but until they are verified (hopefully when the Wells investigation is done), that is all they are-assumptions. When people assumed the Pats cheated (based on unverified, and it seems, inaccurate reports), Pats fans were up in arms. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, assumptions based on unverified reports/reporting is acceptable?
You're 100% correct Hawk, hence my caveat at the end. I have in a sense violated one of my own principles in calling for Kensil's head with limited information, but I'd say two things in that regard...1. I am doing this as clearly noted speculation and my own personal opinion on a Footballguys message board. Professionals in the media have jumped to far worse conclusions based on fewer reports than I have cited, and posted their conclusions on television and Twitter, with far more damaging consequences.

2. The NFL is running the show here. They are the only ones privy to the results of the investigation and have enormous power to control the narrative. The leaks are their responsibility, plain and simple. And the leaks themselves are what have allowed the Patriots to be tried and convicted already in the court of public opinion, and to be severely distracted in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. The NFL's lack of action to stop the leaks, or provide correction to known false leaks being reported on their own Network, is what is so alarming here. You know damn well that Kenisl was contacted by Naqi for her story, since he himself was one of the the focal points of her story (ie - kensil measured the balls at halftime). And he did not stop the story from running with the entirely incorrect foundation that McNally was nefariously trying to introduce an unapproved k-ball into the game. That alone is a fireable offense, and one that should land his sorry ### in court for allowing an innocent man to be hung out to dry.

I found this on another site, but I thought it was appropriate for posting here. Here is what we DO KNOW right now:

1. Some footballs were measured during the Colts playoff game and found to be below the minimum air pressure spec (because, Wells investigation).

2. The Laws of Physics state that warm footballs will lose air pressure when they get colder.

3. The barrage of Deflategate leaks was coming from the league office (because many of the reporters said so, and so did Kraft).

4. Kensil was the "game day official" at the Colts game.

5. Kraft, who immediately admitted guilt in the case of Spygate, has denied any role in deflating footballs.

6. Kraft felt strongly enough about it to demand an apology if the investigation can't find clear evidence of Patriot wrongdoing.

7. Even though there appears to be a different (and NFL-implicating) explanation, somebody leaked a story about a Pats employee trying to manipulate k-balls during the same Colts game.

8. With respect to the same scandal, we know a league employee was fired for his role in stealing k-balls.
Again, I think your interpretation of the events is probably pretty close to what happened; I just find it ironic that many Pats fans were initially saying unless it can be proven (with video, eyewitness testimony, or some other "iron clad" proof) that the Pats deflated the balls, they should be absolved of any guilt, and now many are demanding Goodells job, Kensils job, public apologies, etc before there is any REAL evidence that these things are warranted.
#3 and #7 above - both of which are accepted facts that we do know at this point. #7 is the most damning, and it could only have come from 3 possible sources - either the Patriots, the Referees or the NFL. Why on earth would the Pats or the Refs leak that? So while it is not 100% certain that the leak came from the NFL, it's like 99.9% certain wouldn't you say? And you don't think that's a fireable offense?
 
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
You don't really believe the crap you post, do you?

 
#3 and #7 above - both of which are accepted facts that we do know at this point. #7 is the most damning, and it could only have come from 3 possible sources - either the Patriots, the Referees or the NFL. Why on earth would the Pats or the Refs leak that? So while it is not 100% certain that the leak came from the NFL, it's like 99.9% certain wouldn't you say? And you don't think that's a fireable offense?
Trying to cut out all the nested posts, so I didn't link the points. #7 as you said, is very likely to have been an NFL source, but he suggestion that Kensil should be fired based on this is, IMO, not valid, because there is no proof that he was her source; while it is very possible that this is the case, the link (her husband used to work with him & they are still friends) is too flimsy to fire him over, IMO.

Now if it is proven that he "masterminded" this scheme to nail the Patriots, especially if it's proven that he leaked mis-leading information/fabricated evidence or something like that, then yes, that's a fireable offense. But firing him based on speculation (even if it's probably accurate specutlation) isn't valid, IMO.

 
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
You don't really believe the crap you post, do you?
Sigh....allllrrrrriiiiiggggghhhhht, here's the response....

Im making 2 key assertions:

(1) National media people that saw and commented on Brady's interview with Costas have it on the record that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating.

Do I "really believe" that is what the various linked views from national media say? What's the choice here exactly? THAT. IS. WHAT. THEY. SAID. We cannot go back from that fact. If the choice you are making is that they dont really believe what they're saying b/c they all just hate the Patriots...well, again, there's help out there for people who believe everybody's against them. I hear there are mental hospital wards in Boston full of people with this illness--no link on that, sorry. You'd need to be delusional to deny the fact that that is what prominent national people said on-the-record about Brady's interview with Costas.

(2) I have not seen one NFL insider claim the Pats' innocence. I cant figure out why that's a huge deal; dont Pats fans know that they've earned a reputation in this way; and why is that so bad?

No one in the non-current Patriots' NFL or in NFL media (other than Harbaugh- you know, he guy who is at least partially responsible for creating this mess for the Pats) says the Pats are innocent. I simply cannot name one. If you come on here Dropkick and write such a response as above, I'd expect you to name 10 non-Pats-NFL people that say the Pats are innocent; not that's it's no big deal or that everybody does it; but that they're innocent. So please name 10 NFL or NFL media people outside the Pats that say the Pats are innocent.

Im not saying the Patriots are mortal sinners. Seriously, what's the big deal that these two assertions are true? Do some just feel like fighting anyone that says anything untoward about the Pats?

 
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Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
You don't really believe the crap you post, do you?
Sigh....allllrrrrriiiiiggggghhhhht, here's the response....

Im making 2 key assertions:

(1) National media people that saw and commented on Brady's interview with Costas have it on the record that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating.

Do I "really believe" that is what the various linked views from national media say? What's the choice here exactly? THAT. IS. WHAT. THEY. SAID. We cannot go back from that fact. If the choice you are making is that they dont really believe what they're saying b/c they all just hate the Patriots...well, again, there's help out there for people who believe everybody's against them. I hear there are mental hospital wards in Boston full of people with this illness--no link on that, sorry. You'd need to be delusional to deny the fact that that is what prominent national people said on-the-record about Brady's interview with Costas.

(2) I have not seen one NFL insider claim the Pats' innocence. I cant figure out why that's a huge deal; dont Pats fans know that they've earned a reputation in this way; and why is that so bad?

No one in the non-current Patriots' NFL or in NFL media (other than Harbaugh- you know, he guy who is at least partially responsible for creating this mess for the Pats) says the Pats are innocent. I simply cannot name one. If you come on here Dropkick and write such a response as above, I'd expect you to name 10 non-Pats-NFL people that say the Pats are innocent; not that's it's no big deal or that everybody does it; but that they're innocent. So please name 10 NFL or NFL media people outside the Pats that say the Pats are innocent.

Im not saying the Patriots are mortal sinners. Seriously, what's the big deal that these two assertions are true? Do some just feel like fighting anyone that says anything untoward about the Pats?
You haven't been paying attention, or your bias is directing you elsewhere. Here's a list for you. Not sure if everyone has actually come out and said "the Patriots are innocent". Actually, check that - a few of them have. Mike Ditka said on live tv, "The Patriots did not cheat!"- Chris Long

- Boomer Esiason

- Steve Czaban

- Rob Finnerty

- Mike Ditka

- Chad Brown

- Joe Theisman

- **** Vermeil

- Drew Brees

- Brady Quinn

- Rich Gannon

- Ben Maller

And just about every former Patriot who is now in the media has come out and defended Brady and Belichik. But if isn't include those because I figured they'd get lodged in your bias filter.

 
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Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
You don't really believe the crap you post, do you?
Sigh....allllrrrrriiiiiggggghhhhht, here's the response....

Im making 2 key assertions:

(1) National media people that saw and commented on Brady's interview with Costas have it on the record that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating.

Do I "really believe" that is what the various linked views from national media say? What's the choice here exactly? THAT. IS. WHAT. THEY. SAID. We cannot go back from that fact. If the choice you are making is that they dont really believe what they're saying b/c they all just hate the Patriots...well, again, there's help out there for people who believe everybody's against them. I hear there are mental hospital wards in Boston full of people with this illness--no link on that, sorry. You'd need to be delusional to deny the fact that that is what prominent national people said on-the-record about Brady's interview with Costas.

(2) I have not seen one NFL insider claim the Pats' innocence. I cant figure out why that's a huge deal; dont Pats fans know that they've earned a reputation in this way; and why is that so bad?

No one in the non-current Patriots' NFL or in NFL media (other than Harbaugh- you know, he guy who is at least partially responsible for creating this mess for the Pats) says the Pats are innocent. I simply cannot name one. If you come on here Dropkick and write such a response as above, I'd expect you to name 10 non-Pats-NFL people that say the Pats are innocent; not that's it's no big deal or that everybody does it; but that they're innocent. So please name 10 NFL or NFL media people outside the Pats that say the Pats are innocent.

Im not saying the Patriots are mortal sinners. Seriously, what's the big deal that these two assertions are true? Do some just feel like fighting anyone that says anything untoward about the Pats?
You haven't been paying attention, or your bias is directing you elsewhere. Here's a list for you. Not sure if everyone has actually come out and said "the Patriots are innocent". Actually, check that - a few of them have. Mike Ditka said on live tv, "The Patriots did not cheat!"- Chris Long

- Boomer Esiason

- Steve Czaban

- Rob Finnerty

- Mike Ditka

- Chad Brown

- Joe Theisman

- **** Vermeil

- Drew Brees

- Brady Quinn

- Rich Gannon

- Ben Maller

And just about every former Patriot who is now in the media has come out and defended Brady and Belichik. But if isn't include those because I figured they'd get lodged in your bias filter.
Not for nothing, because I tend to disagree with the over-riding argument Tango is making, but he made a pretty narrow list of acceptable statements. He only wants NFL "people" who say the Pats are "innocent," not that it isn't a big deal, doesn't give an advantage, or everyone does it. Based on that, I know that Theismann doesn't fit; he said he thinks any advantage is negligible, he doesn't think it is a big deal, he even said he believes BB when he said he knew nothing about it, but he never said "innocent." Therefore, I'm going to imagine that he won't count him .

 
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Well, there's 12 names there and I'm not at all interested in parsing through every person's exact statements on the topic. A lot of people on that list have said outright that the Pats are innocent or have been railroaded. He first asked for one name, then moved the goal posts and asked for 10 names. I'm not sure what Tango's point is with all of this. Is it that there is a huge bias in the media against the Pats? That's not exactly breaking news.

 
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Well, there's 12 names there and I'm not at all interested in parsing through every person's exact statements on the topic. A lot of people on that list have said outright that the Pats are innocent or have been railroaded. He first asked for one name, then moved the goal posts and asked for 10 names. I'm not sure what Tango's point is with all of this. Is it that there is a huge bias in the media against the Pats? That's not exactly breaking news.
I don't know-I just brought up Theismann, because as a 'skins fan :bag: , I read his comments when they were made, and I didn't think he said "innocent." So, I checked, and while he basically (in his opinion) excused the Pats from any guilt, he didn't use that word.

 
Bayhawks said:
General Tso said:
Tango said:
DropKick said:
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
You don't really believe the crap you post, do you?
Sigh....allllrrrrriiiiiggggghhhhht, here's the response....

Im making 2 key assertions:

(1) National media people that saw and commented on Brady's interview with Costas have it on the record that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating.

Do I "really believe" that is what the various linked views from national media say? What's the choice here exactly? THAT. IS. WHAT. THEY. SAID. We cannot go back from that fact. If the choice you are making is that they dont really believe what they're saying b/c they all just hate the Patriots...well, again, there's help out there for people who believe everybody's against them. I hear there are mental hospital wards in Boston full of people with this illness--no link on that, sorry. You'd need to be delusional to deny the fact that that is what prominent national people said on-the-record about Brady's interview with Costas.

(2) I have not seen one NFL insider claim the Pats' innocence. I cant figure out why that's a huge deal; dont Pats fans know that they've earned a reputation in this way; and why is that so bad?

No one in the non-current Patriots' NFL or in NFL media (other than Harbaugh- you know, he guy who is at least partially responsible for creating this mess for the Pats) says the Pats are innocent. I simply cannot name one. If you come on here Dropkick and write such a response as above, I'd expect you to name 10 non-Pats-NFL people that say the Pats are innocent; not that's it's no big deal or that everybody does it; but that they're innocent. So please name 10 NFL or NFL media people outside the Pats that say the Pats are innocent.

Im not saying the Patriots are mortal sinners. Seriously, what's the big deal that these two assertions are true? Do some just feel like fighting anyone that says anything untoward about the Pats?
You haven't been paying attention, or your bias is directing you elsewhere. Here's a list for you. Not sure if everyone has actually come out and said "the Patriots are innocent". Actually, check that - a few of them have. Mike Ditka said on live tv, "The Patriots did not cheat!"- Chris Long

- Boomer Esiason

- Steve Czaban

- Rob Finnerty

- Mike Ditka

- Chad Brown

- Joe Theisman

- **** Vermeil

- Drew Brees

- Brady Quinn

- Rich Gannon

- Ben Maller

And just about every former Patriot who is now in the media has come out and defended Brady and Belichik. But if isn't include those because I figured they'd get lodged in your bias filter.
Not for nothing, because I tend to disagree with the over-riding argument Tango is making, but he made a pretty narrow list of acceptable statements. He only wants NFL "people" who say the Pats are "innocent," not that it isn't a big deal, doesn't give an advantage, or everyone does it. Based on that, I know that Theismann doesn't fit; he said he thinks any advantage is negligible, he doesn't think it is a big deal, he even said he believes BB when he said he knew nothing about it, but he never said "innocent." Therefore, I'm going to imagine that he won't count him .
Ok, I am not following every post Tango has made, it's such a silly game and really all he can hold onto at this point, but I will bite.

Just for the record, how many national media commented on the Costa interview and specifically said on the record "that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating"?

1? 5? 10?

Who are they?


As to point #2 it is a stupid question as well but I think the General addressed it more than adequately enough.

So we have moved on to the point where we all feel there is probably not much to see here and the haters are trying to save face by arguing about what the media believed and didn't believe at certain points of the investigation; good grief. So what? Who gives a ratsbass what the efn media thought at one point or another, let it go..............
 
Tango said:
DropKick said:
Boy Tango Collinsworth/Ed Sherman/Costas, I'm glad God has blessed you with such amazing powers to detect people lying and render judgments like that.
Links from non-anonymous sources on your point of view about this interview please. Agree on most other points though.

Assuming this all goes away, here are the takeaways from this specific event IMO:

(1) The Pats apparently have earned a rep for crossing the line and for being arrogant about it. That's not a scathing conclusion Pats (and Panthers) fans. Call it a badge of honor. Fact is there was no one in the entire NFL or insider media who proclaimed the Patriots innocence- except John Harbaugh of course who was practicing CYA 101 . Many may have said it was no big deal that this happens or that everybody does it...but I truly couldnt find any insider who said they were plain innocent. And that's not because of hate, that's because there's a lot of former Pats people running around in the league that talk who credibly say the Pats have earned this reputation.

(2) Given #1, dont get all twisted about many credible people seeing Brady's interview with Costas and concluding Brady knew plenty about what was going on with the balls. Again...that makes him, roughly- there are differences, akin to Brad Johnson in many peoples' minds.
You don't really believe the crap you post, do you?
Sigh....allllrrrrriiiiiggggghhhhht, here's the response....

Im making 2 key assertions:

(1) National media people that saw and commented on Brady's interview with Costas have it on the record that it casts serious doubt on Brady's knowledge of balls deflating.

Do I "really believe" that is what the various linked views from national media say? What's the choice here exactly? THAT. IS. WHAT. THEY. SAID. We cannot go back from that fact. If the choice you are making is that they dont really believe what they're saying b/c they all just hate the Patriots...well, again, there's help out there for people who believe everybody's against them. I hear there are mental hospital wards in Boston full of people with this illness--no link on that, sorry. You'd need to be delusional to deny the fact that that is what prominent national people said on-the-record about Brady's interview with Costas.

(2) I have not seen one NFL insider claim the Pats' innocence. I cant figure out why that's a huge deal; dont Pats fans know that they've earned a reputation in this way; and why is that so bad?

No one in the non-current Patriots' NFL or in NFL media (other than Harbaugh- you know, he guy who is at least partially responsible for creating this mess for the Pats) says the Pats are innocent. I simply cannot name one. If you come on here Dropkick and write such a response as above, I'd expect you to name 10 non-Pats-NFL people that say the Pats are innocent; not that's it's no big deal or that everybody does it; but that they're innocent. So please name 10 NFL or NFL media people outside the Pats that say the Pats are innocent.

Im not saying the Patriots are mortal sinners. Seriously, what's the big deal that these two assertions are true? Do some just feel like fighting anyone that says anything untoward about the Pats?
Sheesh, you are taking the opinions of some NFL insiders over indisputable scientific evidence that says cold weather lowers football PSI? The choice here is to believe science or not.

Stop while you are behind.

 
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Just to be clear, is this the exchange we're talking about?

Costas followed with: "Are you confident that in the end, that fans will be able to say, 'I have no doubt about Tom Brady, that he's on the up and up.'"

Brady: "Well, I think, look, everyone is entitled to an opinion. When you play for one NFL team, there are 31 other NFL teams out there that are probably not much of a fan of you.


If people want to feel whatever they feel, I have no problem with that, they are certainly entitled to those beliefs and those feelings. I realize it's not about me. Not a lot of people know who I am and what I am about. The people who know me, they know what I'm about and what I stand for."

Because my translation would 100% be: "Haters gonna hate."

 
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Just to be clear, is this the exchange we're talking about?

Costas followed with: "Are you confident that in the end, that fans will be able to say, 'I have no doubt about Tom Brady, that he's on the up and up.'"

Brady: "Well, I think, look, everyone is entitled to an opinion. When you play for one NFL team, there are 31 other NFL teams out there that are probably not much of a fan of you.

If people want to feel whatever they feel, I have no problem with that, they are certainly entitled to those beliefs and those feelings. I realize it's not about me. Not a lot of people know who I am and what I am about. The people who know me, they know what I'm about and what I stand for."

Because my translation would 100% be: "Haters gonna hate."
But he didn't say exactly what they wanted to hear so the butthurt cascade began.

 
Sheesh, you are taking the opinions of some NFL insiders over indisputable scientific evidence that says cold weather lowers football PSI? The choice here is to believe science or not.
Stop while you are behind.
:sleep:

 
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