Patriots being investigated after Colts game (7 Viewers)

[jvdesigns2002]

8 games

Sounds right. It probably gets reduced to 4 on appeal.

4 games isn't enough IMO. The league handed out a 4 game suspension for texting during a game. In that case, I don't think anybody even alleged that the team had gained a competitive advantage -- it was just about setting a precedent. If you're going to suspend somebody for 4 games over a relative technicality, you have to come down harder on somebody who engaged in deliberate, systematic and material cheating over the course of multiple games (multiple season really).

I honestly think Brady should sit the next season out. That's based on a combination of the cheating, his history of prior cheating, lying about said cheating, and refusing to cooperate with the league's investigation. In other words, it's not solely based on just the deflated footballs.

I totally agree with this last assessment. I have read the first section of the report (about 23-25 pages) and the circumstantial evidence against Brady is very strong. The evidence shows a very strong likelihood that Brady had a general idea of what was going on. The evidence also shows that there is a likelihood that Brady perpetuated the deflating by providing the self proclaimed "deflator" shoes, game worn jerseys, game used footballs..etc. The report also spoke about how several highly respectable professors (I believe one was from Princeton) concluded that the "Ideal Gas Law" could not explain the drop in air pressure on all 11 balls in the Colts game. They did multiple tests (heaving rubbing, slamming the footballs into the ground to see how much pressure they would lose)--and none of the vigorous tests could replicate results that would mimic the pressure lost in the Patriots footballs. Also, the game officials were interviewed and they said that in their 19 year history of working--they had never had a situation where a teams footballs could not be accounted for post inspection---which is what happened with the Patriots during the Colts game.

There is video that shows the equipment manager taking the footballs into a seldom used restroom for close to two minutes--and he locked the door while in there. The report also says that Brady claimed he didnt even know who handled the footballs for the Patriots and that he didn't have relationships with them--but shortly after the deflategate thing became news--cell phone records showed that he called and texted the equipment manager several times. He also invited the equipment manager to the quarterback room for the first time in over 15 years--so Brady saying he really didn't know the guys was an outright lie. Brady also refused to let the commission look over his phone and emails even though they offered to do so with him and his council present.

To those of which who think there are multiple reasons why the balls could have been below pressure--read the report. Just as the previous post said--people are getting suspended four games for texting people on the sidelines. Teams are getting punished for "pumping noise" into their arenas. Players are getting punished for doing things that merely make the league look bad. We just had one of the games brightest young stars (Josh Gordon) miss over half of a season for barely failing a pot test. If the league thinks that this deflating happened multiple times (and the text communications definitely point that way)--I think a one year suspension is easily warranted. With that being said--I'd be shocked if he got anything close to that.

 

[the moops]

I wonder how Saints fans feel about this. Anything less than a full season for Tommy Cheater and they should riot.

There are hundreds of other suspensions of players we could look at for precedence. Why you choose one from a coach is an interesting angle

 

[Morton Muffley]

Ok, it has been a long work week for me so have been remiss in not posting sooner. I am a Pats fan and was a defender of the team during SB week as I believed that the adamant defense Belichick and Kraft presented could ONLY be made by people who KNEW they would be exonerated. I initially disliked Brady's WEEI's non denial interview and his subsequent first press conference and felt that he was likely hiding something. But after Belichick and Kraft came out with their stances I wrongly believed the Patriots would be exonerated when the report finally came out. At that time I believed the Patriots were likely submitting under-inflated footballs but we're NOT tampering with the footballs post inspection. Indeed, it was only after Brady's "I don't believe I am a liar" comment that I began to have some doubts again. But now that I have read the texts from jastremski and "the deflator" I believe:

1. The Patriots tampered post inspection

2. Brady knew this was happening

3. Brady should be punished both for his involvement and his lack of cooperation. I think a 2-4 game suspension seems reasonable but honestly have NO idea how to judge the severity of the advantage

4. There is at least a 50% chance that Belichick didn't know what was happening

5. There is a 90% chance that Kraft didn't know

6. There is a highly likelihood that Brady lied to both Kraft and Belichick in the early days (and perhaps long thereafter) of the investigation

Anyway, just wanted to come back here to say I was wrong.

Lastly, I wanted to give a special call out to Moleculo - who impressed me so many months ago. Moleculo and I did not agree on a lot, but I always appreciated his ability to consume new info and have it reshape his stance. As such, I wanted to hold myself to that same standard here.

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

 

[General Malaise]

I wonder how Saints fans feel about this. Anything less than a full season for Tommy Cheater and they should riot.

There are hundreds of other suspensions of players we could look at for precedence. Why you choose one from a coach is an interesting angle

Saints coach ordered and sanctioned the bounty...Tom ordered the cheating. Then lied about it. A year minimum.

 

[mbuehner]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

Lol. Ok guy.

 

[The General]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

 

[the moops]

How about nearly every player suspended for PED who refused to admit taking them knowingly. Should all of them be kicked out of football too?

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

Lol. Ok guy.

It's true. cheated. Lied. Not sure how you can defend that honestly.

 

[General Malaise]

How about nearly every player suspended for PED who refused to admit taking them knowingly. Should all of them be kicked out of football too?

Did they also order equipment guys to alter footballs and then lie about it?

 

[the moops]

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a fin balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though...

Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs fed us...a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally: F tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday

Jastremski: Omg! Spaz

I am wondering how these texts where obtained by the commission. Knowing that some lawyer can obtain my private conversations when no crime was committed makes me want to throw away my phone.

Delete texts like these before throwing away:

Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week

McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby sunday

McNally: F tom

Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week

dude was playing hardball for some uggs

I ####### KNEW IT!!!!

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

 

[The General]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

Agreed he should be busted for the lie and covering up. His agent is out there saying he didn't do anything still. 4-6 games seems good. Personally, I don't care about messages NFL sends to kids.

 

[Jercules]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybNI0KB1bg

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

what kind of message does acting like a whiny dbag on the internet send your kids?

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

Agreed he should be busted for the lie and covering up. His agent is out there saying he didn't do anything still. 4-6 games seems good. Personally, I don't care about messages NFL sends to kids.

You should. Kids look up to guys like Tom. Idolize him. Worship him. To know he's a cheater and a liar has a significant impact to his adoring fans, especially the little ones with brains still developing. The NFL has a duty to let kids know cheating and lying are wrong and deserve severe punishment.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

they actually lifted conversations with the guy's mother and published them publicly?

I pretty much guarantee that 90% of the nobodies whining about brady not giving up his phone are the same crackpots outraged about the govt reading their bs e-mails

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

what kind of message does acting like a whiny dbag on the internet send your kids?

Hmmmmmm....calling me a dbag seems less than excellent. Reported.

 

[The General]

Anyone remember what happened to woman-beaters before Ray Rice?

Yeah, me either. Because nothing happened. Yet Rice was effectively kicked out of the league.

Anybody remember when Tom Brady nearly killed his wife on video tape? Wait, he let some air out of some footballs....

And then lied about it. Pete Rose got kicked out of baseball for gambling and then lying. Tom cheated and lied. He needs similar treatment to Rose.

come on.

Okay maybe not a lifetime ban but at least a year. What kind of message does this send our kids? You can cheat, lie AND get away with it?

Agreed he should be busted for the lie and covering up. His agent is out there saying he didn't do anything still. 4-6 games seems good. Personally, I don't care about messages NFL sends to kids.

You should. Kids look up to guys like Tom. Idolize him. Worship him. To know he's a cheater and a liar has a significant impact to his adoring fans, especially the little ones with brains still developing. The NFL has a duty to let kids know cheating and lying are wrong and deserve severe punishment.

Brady is most likely going to be suspended there isn't an extra need to send messages to kids or whatever.Parents need to talk to their kids about cheating, honesty, integrity, etc. This is an opportunity to have that discussion.

 

[Donnybrook]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

 

[sho nuff]

if Brady and Patriots have been doing it for 10 years then yeah - its exceptionally lucky guessing

is it a "new" thing ? I dunno .... does 1# or 1/2 # of air pressure matter THAT much ?

the variances per the NFL rules are 1 # * 12.5 to 13.5 # PSI )

if A.Rodgers and the Packers get caught with a 12.4 ball this fall, are they going to be suspended for it ?

Depends...did Rodgers alter the ball after inspection? And then lie about it?

 

[BroadwayG]

this is really exponent's position from the report?:

“In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain.”

compelling

The investigators basically flushed the exponent trials down the toilet and went totally based on the texts and calls.

 

[sho nuff]

8 games

How many games does A A Ron get? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

0.0

 

[knowledge dropper]

If Brady gets a year's suspension, he would be 39 the next time he takes a snap. He may just take his deflated balls and go home.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

it's a very valid point, but the reality is that the patriots will win their division again --- I doubt brady gets a whole year over this nonsense

 

[Pots]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

This year's superbowl wouldn't be tainted at all due to a suspension of Brady. Last year's superbowl however...

 

[LBH]

They obviously learned nothing from spygate. Hopefully the league throws the book at them. 8 games for Brady and lose a 1st rd pick

 

[Bayhawks]

This is interesting:

http://yourteamcheats.com/

No its not. Was posted earlier in the thread and its pure crap.

Why is it crap? Seems like a pretty good place for a fair-minded NFL fan to gain a little perspective before they fall for this "Brady is the Anti-Christ" crap being peddled around here.

I always knew those Denver SOBs were rotten to the core!

Because it is. IF that site had tried to be legitimate, it would have made a better point, but labeling every team a cheater because of "tampergate" (because every NFL team tampers with FA) or as a cheater because of "cheapsgate" if they've had even a single player fined for an illegal hit since 2010 makes it seem like the petty nonsense that a Pat/Brady fan threw up to say, what Brady did is ok because other teams do bad stuff too.

It's like when a 5 year gets in trouble for being bad, he automatically rats out his sister for doing something completely unrelated. It's childish.

Bingo.

I like how the entire website is dismissed because you think it nitpicks. This entire thread is based on the premise that "rules are rules!"

This reminds me of "family-value" political candidates who criticize others, but then are caught cheating on their spouses, and then try to claim it is completely unrelated. Everyone can see the hypocrisy, and hypocrites have very little credibility.

Not really, it's more like that candidate criticizing others, then having someone who cheated on his spouse point out that he once got into a verbal argument with his wife and saying "see, you're just as bad as me!"

Do you really think a team wearing the wrong uniform (that's one of the "gates" on that site) is equivalent to a team using an illegal football on purpose? Do you really think that a team having a player(s) receive fines for illegal hits is equivalent? Do you really think tampering with FA is the same is equivalent? Because those are the kind of ridiculous "gates" that site is naming.

Again, making the argument that this situation is analogous to other situations might be a valid point, but comparing it to situations that are ridiculous just diminishes that argument.

 

[Donnybrook]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

This year's superbowl wouldn't be tainted at all due to a suspension of Brady. Last year's superbowl however...

Go flog that dead horse elsewhere.

 

[Stealthycat]

my kid came to me today and said " Dad, I just found out Tom Brady helped put his footballs to 11.5 pounds instead of 12.5 which is league minimum"

he's been crying non-stop for 4 hours

my kid is seriously crushed, I had no idea 1 PSI could make so much difference in a young boy's life ... I wonder now if he'll ever be anything at all

 

[massraider]

8 games

Sounds right. It probably gets reduced to 4 on appeal.

4 games isn't enough IMO. The league handed out a 4 game suspension for texting during a game. In that case, I don't think anybody even alleged that the team had gained a competitive advantage -- it was just about setting a precedent. If you're going to suspend somebody for 4 games over a relative technicality, you have to come down harder on somebody who engaged in deliberate, systematic and material cheating over the course of multiple games (multiple season really).

I honestly think Brady should sit the next season out. That's based on a combination of the cheating, his history of prior cheating, lying about said cheating, and refusing to cooperate with the league's investigation. In other words, it's not solely based on just the deflated footballs.

There won't be an appeal. This isn't a violation of the CBA.This is blatant cheating, and refusal to cooperate.

No appeal.

Uh huh. We'll see.

Hope you're not calling Bob Kraft a liar.

 

[massraider]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension?

Perhaps the most bizarre thought I have read in the thread.

 

[Stealthycat]

my son is still crying - damn that 1 PSI and destroying his role model and icon Tom Brady

 

[Donnybrook]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension?

Perhaps the most bizarre thought I have read in the thread.

Seriously? More bizarre than the guy comparing Brady to Lance Armstong.

 

[Jercules]

This is interesting:

http://yourteamcheats.com/

No its not. Was posted earlier in the thread and its pure crap.

Why is it crap? Seems like a pretty good place for a fair-minded NFL fan to gain a little perspective before they fall for this "Brady is the Anti-Christ" crap being peddled around here.

I always knew those Denver SOBs were rotten to the core!

Because it is. IF that site had tried to be legitimate, it would have made a better point, but labeling every team a cheater because of "tampergate" (because every NFL team tampers with FA) or as a cheater because of "cheapsgate" if they've had even a single player fined for an illegal hit since 2010 makes it seem like the petty nonsense that a Pat/Brady fan threw up to say, what Brady did is ok because other teams do bad stuff too.

It's like when a 5 year gets in trouble for being bad, he automatically rats out his sister for doing something completely unrelated. It's childish.

Bingo.

I like how the entire website is dismissed because you think it nitpicks. This entire thread is based on the premise that "rules are rules!"

This reminds me of "family-value" political candidates who criticize others, but then are caught cheating on their spouses, and then try to claim it is completely unrelated. Everyone can see the hypocrisy, and hypocrites have very little credibility.

Not really, it's more like that candidate criticizing others, then having someone who cheated on his spouse point out that he once got into a verbal argument with his wife and saying "see, you're just as bad as me!"

Do you really think a team wearing the wrong uniform (that's one of the "gates" on that site) is equivalent to a team using an illegal football on purpose? Do you really think that a team having a player(s) receive fines for illegal hits is equivalent? Do you really think tampering with FA is the same is equivalent? Because those are the kind of ridiculous "gates" that site is naming.

Again, making the argument that this situation is analogous to other situations might be a valid point, but comparing it to situations that are ridiculous just diminishes that argument.

The site does the exact opposite of saying everything is equivalent.

They give little cheat 'scores' that are, of course, subjective, but nonetheless acknowledge the fact that something like tampering with a football, for instance, is not nearly as serious as winning two Super Bowls by cheating the salary cap.

 

[Stealthycat]

Lance had his tires deflated ? good gawd the HORROR ... I didn't know that

 

[Anarchy99]

Still curious to where on the scale of cheating this falls on. Yes, they did it and it seems to potentially have given NE an advantage. But didn't they say at the start of this it only changed the weight of the ball by the weight of a dollar bill?

The other two questions I had were about the investigation. If this were a court case, a defendant would not have to testify and self incriminate himself. But in a private investigation you have no choice?

Also, if it is found on appeal or in court that the report did not prove Brady deflated a football or they have nothing that can directly tie him to telling someone else to deflate a ball, theoretically would everything after that get wiped out (not fully cooperating with the investigation, not giving cell phone, lying, etc. ).

I am not trying to make things so Brady skates. Just wondering from a procedural perspective if they haven't directly proven his involvement does that make the rest of the mess after go away.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Again, making the argument that this situation is analogous to other situations might be a valid point, but comparing it to situations that are ridiculous just diminishes that argument.

do you guys actually include internet troll on your resumes?

 

[moleculo]

my son is still crying - damn that 1 PSI and destroying his role model and icon Tom Brady

If thid isn't schtick, your son has some deep issues beyond being let down by his role model.If it is schtick, it's pretty terrible.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Still curious to where on the scale of cheating this falls on. Yes, they did it and it seems to potentially have given NE an advantage. But didn't they say at the start of this it only changed the weight of the ball by the weight of a dollar bill?

The other two questions I had were about the investigation. If this were a court case, a defendant would not have to testify and self incriminate himself. But in a private investigation you have no choice?

Also, if it is found on appeal or in court that the report did not prove Brady deflated a football or they have nothing that can directly tie him to telling someone else to deflate a ball, theoretically would everything after that get wiped out (not fully cooperating with the investigation, not giving cell phone, lying, etc. ).

I am not trying to make things so Brady skates. Just wondering from a procedural perspective if they haven't directly proven his involvement does that make the rest of the mess after go away.

I don't really think you can compare it with an actual court --- they haven't proven anything with this nonsense, and I doubt you'd have many prosecutors close with 'we think he probably did it'.

workplace /= court

 

[Anarchy99]

My point in bringing up the court thing was, in court they wouldn't make Brady self-incriminate himself. But the leage would levy a suspension for not cooperating with the investigation . . . which would be one reason why it would go to court.

 

[rockaction]

Still curious to where on the scale of cheating this falls on. Yes, they did it and it seems to potentially have given NE an advantage. But didn't they say at the start of this it only changed the weight of the ball by the weight of a dollar bill?

The other two questions I had were about the investigation. If this were a court case, a defendant would not have to testify and self incriminate himself. But in a private investigation you have no choice?

Also, if it is found on appeal or in court that the report did not prove Brady deflated a football or they have nothing that can directly tie him to telling someone else to deflate a ball, theoretically would everything after that get wiped out (not fully cooperating with the investigation, not giving cell phone, lying, etc. ).

I am not trying to make things so Brady skates. Just wondering from a procedural perspective if they haven't directly proven his involvement does that make the rest of the mess after go away.

I don't really think you can compare it with an actual court --- they haven't proven anything with this nonsense, and I doubt you'd have many prosecutors close with 'we think he probably did it'.

workplace /= court

You're totally and fundamentally missing the point. They proved it at the level they need to in order to satisfy the burden of proof requirement set forth by the NFL and agreed upon in the CBA. You want a different standard as a Pats fan, and you're not going to get it. They don't need to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt.

Once more, you seem to be missing the fundamental issue while pointing every which way in desperation (other teams cheat, there's no certainly, the report is flawed, the experts are flawed, etc.) and you're just coming off as flailing.

 

[rockaction]

My point in bringing up the court thing was, in court they wouldn't make Brady self-incriminate himself. But the leage would levy a suspension for not cooperating with the investigation . . . which would be one reason why it would go to court.

In court they could subpoena communications, unlike in this case.

 

[Pots]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

This year's superbowl wouldn't be tainted at all due to a suspension of Brady. Last year's superbowl however...

Go flog that dead horse elsewhere.

We get it. You love Brady. To you he can do no wrong. You have to understand not everyone feels that way and instead feel his reputation has taken a huge hit just like any other athlete who has been caught cheating.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Still curious to where on the scale of cheating this falls on. Yes, they did it and it seems to potentially have given NE an advantage. But didn't they say at the start of this it only changed the weight of the ball by the weight of a dollar bill?

The other two questions I had were about the investigation. If this were a court case, a defendant would not have to testify and self incriminate himself. But in a private investigation you have no choice?

Also, if it is found on appeal or in court that the report did not prove Brady deflated a football or they have nothing that can directly tie him to telling someone else to deflate a ball, theoretically would everything after that get wiped out (not fully cooperating with the investigation, not giving cell phone, lying, etc. ).

I am not trying to make things so Brady skates. Just wondering from a procedural perspective if they haven't directly proven his involvement does that make the rest of the mess after go away.

How so?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

If you punish our cheating quarterback for cheating, it only serves to taint the accomplishments of the non-cheating teams.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

My point in bringing up the court thing was, in court they wouldn't make Brady self-incriminate himself. But the leage would levy a suspension for not cooperating with the investigation . . . which would be one reason why it would go to court.

The NFL falls apart like ye ok' deck I' cards evey time they get dragged into court on this stuff. Hey maybe Tom and the Union should subpoena all the NFL's emails and archived files on this subject dating back 50 years. Maybe they should then depose Goidell under oath. Either they have proof or they don't, but I absolutely guarantee you if it was going on the NFL knew about it, probably other teams have been doing it for years, the NFL knew about that, and they are acting arbitrarily as a result. The only reason they're acting now is because just like AP and Ruce they have been publicly embarrassed and exposed. Goodell should tread lightly here. 2, maybe 4 games, and maybe Brady won't sue. Otherwise Goodell will be tangoing withs rattlesnake.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

My point in bringing up the court thing was, in court they wouldn't make Brady self-incriminate himself. But the leage would levy a suspension for not cooperating with the investigation . . . which would be one reason why it would go to court.

In a criminal trial the defendant does not have to speak. In a civil case the defendant can be compelled to turn over documents and to respond in interrogatories, depositions, and in testimony. If a civil defendant refuses cooperation the court can instruct the jury that they may draw negative inferences therefrom. Your speculation does not comport with the process in a civil hearing, which this is most analogous to, though, being based upon League rules and procedures is not entirely so.

 

[Donnybrook]

Do people really want Brady to be suspended for this?

How tainted will the Super Bowl be this year if the Patriots fail to make the playoffs due to the Brady's suspension? Talk about having team with an asterisk next to its Super Bowl win.

This year's superbowl wouldn't be tainted at all due to a suspension of Brady. Last year's superbowl however...

Go flog that dead horse elsewhere.

We get it. You love Brady. To you he can do no wrong. You have to understand not everyone feels that way and instead feel his reputation has taken a huge hit just like any other athlete who has been caught cheating.

I have no love whatsoever for Tom Brady. Most people know that I am a Vikings fan. I just believe playing with an under inflated ball is not this huge advantage that people are making it out to be.

Dwayne Allen gets it: "They could have played with soap for balls and beat us. Simply the better team." Other people don't