Patriots being investigated after Colts game (9 Viewers)

[BustedKnuckles]

Near the end of the context page.

"Since the Patriots were the target of this investigation and since information coming directly from game officials and League officials was crucial — and it was the League that also employed the investigators — Patriots’ counsel requested to be present during interviews of such League personnel.

That request was rejected. Patriots’ counsel also requested from the outset that he be provided with the actual halftime psi measurements. That information was not provided until March 23, over two months into the investigation. It was provided then only on the condition that it not be disclosed and, particularly, that it not be disclosed to the media until the final report was issued.

This condition was imposed in the face of the extensively reported misinformation about halftime football psi that the League had refused to correct. One can only speculate why it was so important for the League that the accurate halftime information be withheld from the public until it was ultimately part of a report that downplayed the science and instead relied on selective texts."

butbutbut........kraft got him a raise, etc!!

The Deflator IS pretty heavy ....if he was losing weight i could see him getting a nickname like that if hes also a ball boy(man)

 

[MattFancy]

Goodell will hear the appeal, it'll be ok, lol. Everywhere I mention his name people just crack up hysterically. He's so funny!

not as funny as dorito dink

And there is this year's most popular fantasy football team name

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Near the end of the context page.

"Since the Patriots were the target of this investigation and since information coming directly from game officials and League officials was crucial — and it was the League that also employed the investigators — Patriots’ counsel requested to be present during interviews of such League personnel.

That request was rejected. Patriots’ counsel also requested from the outset that he be provided with the actual halftime psi measurements. That information was not provided until March 23, over two months into the investigation. It was provided then only on the condition that it not be disclosed and, particularly, that it not be disclosed to the media until the final report was issued.

This condition was imposed in the face of the extensively reported misinformation about halftime football psi that the League had refused to correct. One can only speculate why it was so important for the League that the accurate halftime information be withheld from the public until it was ultimately part of a report that downplayed the science and instead relied on selective texts."

butbutbut........kraft got him a raise, etc!!

The Deflator IS pretty heavy ....if he was losing weight i could see him getting a nickname like that if hes also a ball boy(man)

BustedK, tell me you are not swallowing this. ?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

 

[PatsWillWin]

Goodell vs. Patriots. It's going to be an interesting contest of who can out-ego-arrogance the other.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Not much hope for Tom Brady in appeal18minutes ago

• Lester Munson, Legal Analyst

A couple of moves Thursday by the NFL Players Association and the New England Patriots will keep the Deflategate discussion front and center for the league and fans for some time. Late Thursday afternoon, quarterback Tom Brady and the NFLPA filed an appeal of a four-game suspension handed down by the league after an investigator concluded Brady had a role in deflating footballs used in the AFC Championship Game against the Indianapolis Colts. A few hours earlier, the Patriots issued a point-by-point rebuttal of the NFL's findings.

The actions raise significant questions about the investigation, the team's reaction, the possibility of litigation and Brady's attempt to preserve his legacy:

Q: Can Brady win a reduction in the suspension or eliminate the suspension entirely?

A: No. The evidence gathered by attorney Ted Wells for the NFL's investigation is clear and convincing.

If the arbitrator had the power to actually increase a penalty, well, Brady and the NFLPA might not have filed an appeal.

more http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

As expected, Pats* fans are in full-on conspiracy mode about this outlet/article/writer as well.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So, on the subject of Brady's phone's contents becoming public if he, or the Pats sue in Federal Court. While it is true that if the matter found its way to Federal Court that there would be a discovery process involving interrogatories, depositions, and subpoenas duces tecum demanding production of evidence like the contents of Brady's phone, Brady's attorneys would fight the matter ,alleging privacy interests that render the contents privileged. The judge would not buy that argument in whole, but he would in part. The judge would undertake what is called an in camera review of the contents. That process involves only the judge receiving the full contents, deciding what information is relevant to the case, sealing all other information, and then releasing the relevant information to the attorneys, but routinely under a protective order that they not discuss it or publish it outside of the confines of the suit. No one would be allowed to tell the media, at least likely not. Violation of such orders is taken seriously. Violation can lead to sanctions. These could run the gamut from suspension or disbarment of attorneys, to dismissals of claims or counterclaims, suits in whole, or could become the basis of a larger award than would have been had in the original suit.

It is far from a foregone conclusion that a Federal suit will expose Brady's phone contents to our view and comment.

 

[12punch]

Lester Munson sounds familiar -- isn't he that guy that fought the nefl and got free agency implemented?

 

[BroadwayG]

I don't think I'd use the words clear or convincing with regards to the evidence. All there is to go on is one deflator text and the espn text.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'd rather they dragged it out. Dragging the shield through the mud along the way.

I hope Goodell decides to hear the appeal himself to attempt to save face but in reality sealing his fate and losing his job.

#### em.

Goodell has chosen to oversee the appeal himself.Its happening.

Also, what a ####### joke.

I don't think this is going to work out well for the Pats.

I see it ending one of two ways.Roger feigns shock at all the shortcomings of the Wells investigation and overturns the suspension - despite approving his punishment.

Or.

The Pats take the NFL to court. Goodell loses his job. All team punishment overturned.

You really think he could lose his job? I completely understand you don't care for him much at this time but league wide I don't think this move is viewed as unpopular and the NFL is a year round cash cow.

Um, pretty sure no one likes Goodell. And having the league taking to court, possibly over multiple issues isn't gonna make the owners happy.There is buzz the Pats are thinking about filing libel charges.

The way kraft chose his words then disappeared makes me think they will. This rebuttal seems like step one in what will obviously be a battle taken directly to online posting leading to legal action. First side to mention hitler loses!

I see that posting as a battle of PR - if they were taking this to court why lay out their strategy for the other side to see?

I'm not sure this goes to court for the reasons mentioned (Brady would then HAVE to turn over his phone records), plus I'm really not sure there's any legal basis the Pats can stand on (admittedly I'm not sure on that point without researching any further).

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The NFL has knowingly written lies about the Pats?

Maybe the fact that the Wells report was actually written by a guy named Wells, who is not employed by the NFL, is lost on him?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

You would have to destroy the CBA that the players agreed to.

 

[Anarchy99]

All that's left here is for Brady to officially change his number to 12.5 as a constant billboard to suggest he didn't cheat.

I wouldn't put it past the Pats to run this through the courts ad nauseum to get Brady to be able to play the entire season. The Saints players were able to make it through an entire season while their case played out.

 

[GoBirds]

There's really not enough evidence to conclude anything at this point. Just because the accused cheater has an excuse doesn't make this any closer to being resolved then it was a few days ago.

I think it's safe to say that the Pat's not tampering with the balls is just about as factual as the Eagles not making the playoffs this year.

*

 

[12punch]

Donk fan base heard from

http://dinocostalive.com/aarchive.aspx

 

[PatsWillWin]

I don't think the Patriots are innocent - but calling the evidence in the Wells report "Clear and convincing" has to be a joke.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

You would have to destroy the CBA that the players agreed to.

Why? Vilma did it (successfully).

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

 

[David Dodds]

Regardless to how this shakes out in this case, I think the Commissioner's office has to take a stand about cooperation in an internal NFL investigation. If they don't, then it will become routine for the player's to refuse to answer to the Commissioner on any matter at all. What's the penalty for less than optimal cooperation?

I liken this to a drug screen when I worked with missiles. Your name gets pulled at work. You either submit to the test or you get fired (as they assume non-cooperation would lead to a failed test).

 

[Jrodicus]

Ignoring for now what the Ideal Gas Law tells us the psi loss should have been, we're left to wonder why, regardless of which gauge was used pre-game, the Pats' balls showed 0.72-0.75 psi more deflation than the Colts' balls.

In the scientific report, they expect nearly a .8 psi increase from being taken from the cold into the warm locker room at halftime. Perfectly reasonable the colts balls, tested at the end of halftime instead of the beginning are significantly higher. Of course, this is never brought up by the investigation because it all points to nothing happening.

The chart is on page 204 of the report.

Where is it established that the Colts balls were tested at the end of halftime, and the Pats balls at the beginning of halftime?

A much more reasonable assumption (IMO) is that all the balls were tested at about the same time.

It is specifically stated in pg 72-73 they stopped measuring the Colts balls because they ran out of time. A matter of 2 minutes can increase the psi by .3 as it warms up.

What are they doing, putting the balls in a pizza oven at halftime? It's not going to warm up that much in 20 minutes, let alone 2.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Regardless to how this shakes out in this case, I think the Commissioner's office has to take a stand about cooperation in an internal NFL investigation. If they don't, then it will become routine for the player's to refuse to answer to the Commissioner on any matter at all. What's the penalty for less than optimal cooperation?

I liken this to a drug screen when I worked with missiles. Your name gets pulled at work. You either submit to the test or you get fired (as they assume non-cooperation would lead to a failed test).

Pretty sure they took a stand. They took an issue that is a $25k fine in the rulebook and turned it into a four game suspension, million dollar fine, and a 1st/4th round pick.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

The Patriots have something very close to zero leverage. The bolded part in particular is flat-out delusional. I would be genuinely shocked if Goodell adjusted Brady's suspension in any way.

Edit: If you think New England has some kind of hand to play here, you need to put down the Boston papers. Brady's suspension and the penalty imposed on the team are both overwhelmingly popular with fans, and the entire team is currently a laughingstock thanks to yesterday's "rebuttal." Goodell is going to hear the appeal, uphold the suspension, and that will be that.

 

[sho nuff]

Regardless to how this shakes out in this case, I think the Commissioner's office has to take a stand about cooperation in an internal NFL investigation. If they don't, then it will become routine for the player's to refuse to answer to the Commissioner on any matter at all. What's the penalty for less than optimal cooperation?

I liken this to a drug screen when I worked with missiles. Your name gets pulled at work. You either submit to the test or you get fired (as they assume non-cooperation would lead to a failed test).

Pretty sure they took a stand. They took an issue that is a $25k fine in the rulebook and turned it into a four game suspension, million dollar fine, and a 1st/4th round pick.

Its not a $25k fine...you are missing the words that come before the 25k that are important. "but not limited to".

 

[Tango]

Donk fan base heard from

http://dinocostalive.com/aarchive.aspx

Thanks for this...Love Dino's disdain for RG. Agree with much of what he is saying here.

But...doesnt change the circumstances that Brady is still guilty and he/the-team should be punished a little for the underlying crime, and vastly more because of the digging-in/lying/mocking, etc.

 

[David Dodds]

Regardless to how this shakes out in this case, I think the Commissioner's office has to take a stand about cooperation in an internal NFL investigation. If they don't, then it will become routine for the player's to refuse to answer to the Commissioner on any matter at all. What's the penalty for less than optimal cooperation?

I liken this to a drug screen when I worked with missiles. Your name gets pulled at work. You either submit to the test or you get fired (as they assume non-cooperation would lead to a failed test).

Pretty sure they took a stand. They took an issue that is a $25k fine in the rulebook and turned it into a four game suspension, million dollar fine, and a 1st/4th round pick.

So the entire penalty was based on less than optimal cooperation? Or was some of the penalty for the alleged cheating?

 

[The General]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

With the exception of Brady not giving his cell phone, the Pats have said they have done absolutely nothing wrong, correct?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

You would have to destroy the CBA that the players agreed to.

Why? Vilma did it (successfully).

Because the NFLPA was able to show specific details of the CBA that had the jurisdiction of those specific items fall outside of the Commishes (systems arbitrator) sphere.

And while they won. The commish suspended them again, avoiding the technical glitch.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I don't think the Patriots are innocent - but calling the evidence in the Wells report "Clear and convincing" has to be a joke.

If you don't have an axe to grind it's very compelling.

You're losing the forest for the trees.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

The Patriots have something very close to zero leverage. The bolded part in particular is flat-out delusional. I would be genuinely shocked if Goodell adjusted Brady's suspension in any way.

Edit: If you think New England has some kind of hand to play here, you need to put down the Boston papers. Brady's suspension and the penalty imposed on the team are both overwhelmingly popular with fans, and entire team is currently a laughingstock thanks to yesterday's "rebuttal." Goodell is going to hear the appeal, uphold the suspension, and that will be that.

I wouldn't. I'm expecting it. I wouldn't say the Pats have leverage necessarily - but there will be some negotiations taking place. If reducing the suspension to 2 or 3 games makes everything else go away, it's a done deal.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Near the end of the context page.

"Since the Patriots were the target of this investigation and since information coming directly from game officials and League officials was crucial — and it was the League that also employed the investigators — Patriots’ counsel requested to be present during interviews of such League personnel.

That request was rejected. Patriots’ counsel also requested from the outset that he be provided with the actual halftime psi measurements. That information was not provided until March 23, over two months into the investigation. It was provided then only on the condition that it not be disclosed and, particularly, that it not be disclosed to the media until the final report was issued.

This condition was imposed in the face of the extensively reported misinformation about halftime football psi that the League had refused to correct. One can only speculate why it was so important for the League that the accurate halftime information be withheld from the public until it was ultimately part of a report that downplayed the science and instead relied on selective texts."

butbutbut........kraft got him a raise, etc!!

The Deflator IS pretty heavy ....if he was losing weight i could see him getting a nickname like that if hes also a ball boy(man)

BustedK, tell me you are not swallowing this. ?

All im saying its interesting that the guy IS heavy...if he was skinny they wouldnt have even thought of saying its his nickname ...so who really knows

 

[PatsWillWin]

Regardless to how this shakes out in this case, I think the Commissioner's office has to take a stand about cooperation in an internal NFL investigation. If they don't, then it will become routine for the player's to refuse to answer to the Commissioner on any matter at all. What's the penalty for less than optimal cooperation?

I liken this to a drug screen when I worked with missiles. Your name gets pulled at work. You either submit to the test or you get fired (as they assume non-cooperation would lead to a failed test).

Pretty sure they took a stand. They took an issue that is a $25k fine in the rulebook and turned it into a four game suspension, million dollar fine, and a 1st/4th round pick.

So the entire penalty was based on less than optimal cooperation? Or was some of the penalty for the alleged cheating?

Obviously some of the penalty was for alleged cheating. I think another factor was past history, and yeah, not fully cooperating. Maybe for being total dickbags too. Minnesota gets caught heating balls on the sideline during a cold game - they get a warning. Maybe not completely similar, but it's in the same universe, while the penalties were not. I think cooperation/Spygate were huge factors, in addition to giving in to public opinion, which we all know Goodell tends to do.

If people think that the same penalty gets applied to like the Houston Texans for doing the same think, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

You would have to destroy the CBA that the players agreed to.

Why? Vilma did it (successfully).

I wonder how the late Al Davis would have handled this if he was in the same position as the Pats are now

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

The Patriots have something very close to zero leverage. The bolded part in particular is flat-out delusional. I would be genuinely shocked if Goodell adjusted Brady's suspension in any way.

Edit: If you think New England has some kind of hand to play here, you need to put down the Boston papers. Brady's suspension and the penalty imposed on the team are both overwhelmingly popular with fans, and entire team is currently a laughingstock thanks to yesterday's "rebuttal." Goodell is going to hear the appeal, uphold the suspension, and that will be that.

I wouldn't. I'm expecting it. I wouldn't say the Pats have leverage necessarily - but there will be some negotiations taking place. If reducing the suspension to 2 or 3 games makes everything else go away, it's a done deal.

Pretty much what I think. I think Brady ends up serving two games. There's virtually no chance he serves four, IMO.

The Patriot rebuttal had some ridiculous arguments, but it also had some compelling ones. Whether or not it helped or hurt them in the public, if a truly objective judge/arbiter gets everything put in front of him, the flaws in the Wells report will prove fatal IMO.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

You would have to destroy the CBA that the players agreed to.

Why? Vilma did it (successfully).

I wonder how the late Al Davis would have handled this if he was in the same position as the Pats are now

He'd sue, and he'd win.

 

[GoBirds]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

The Patriots have something very close to zero leverage. The bolded part in particular is flat-out delusional. I would be genuinely shocked if Goodell adjusted Brady's suspension in any way.

Edit: If you think New England has some kind of hand to play here, you need to put down the Boston papers. Brady's suspension and the penalty imposed on the team are both overwhelmingly popular with fans, and entire team is currently a laughingstock thanks to yesterday's "rebuttal." Goodell is going to hear the appeal, uphold the suspension, and that will be that.

I wouldn't. I'm expecting it. I wouldn't say the Pats have leverage necessarily - but there will be some negotiations taking place. If reducing the suspension to 2 or 3 games makes everything else go away, it's a done deal.

I agree, would think there has to be some negotiation there.

 

[BroadwayG]

Ignoring for now what the Ideal Gas Law tells us the psi loss should have been, we're left to wonder why, regardless of which gauge was used pre-game, the Pats' balls showed 0.72-0.75 psi more deflation than the Colts' balls.

In the scientific report, they expect nearly a .8 psi increase from being taken from the cold into the warm locker room at halftime. Perfectly reasonable the colts balls, tested at the end of halftime instead of the beginning are significantly higher. Of course, this is never brought up by the investigation because it all points to nothing happening.

The chart is on page 204 of the report.

Where is it established that the Colts balls were tested at the end of halftime, and the Pats balls at the beginning of halftime?

A much more reasonable assumption (IMO) is that all the balls were tested at about the same time.

It is specifically stated in pg 72-73 they stopped measuring the Colts balls because they ran out of time. A matter of 2 minutes can increase the psi by .3 as it warms up.

What are they doing, putting the balls in a pizza oven at halftime? It's not going to warm up that much in 20 minutes, let alone 2.

Tell eXponent their data is faulty because of a pizza oven. Their controlled experiments show differently.

It's kind of funny how all the data fits to no tampering if you assume Anderson is correct in which gauge he used pregame.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

With the exception of Brady not giving his cell phone, the Pats have said they have done absolutely nothing wrong, correct?

They seem to have admitted that it was a mistake hiring Lloyd Christmas and Harry as ballboys as well.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

The Patriots have something very close to zero leverage. The bolded part in particular is flat-out delusional. I would be genuinely shocked if Goodell adjusted Brady's suspension in any way.

Edit: If you think New England has some kind of hand to play here, you need to put down the Boston papers. Brady's suspension and the penalty imposed on the team are both overwhelmingly popular with fans, and the entire team is currently a laughingstock thanks to yesterday's "rebuttal." Goodell is going to hear the appeal, uphold the suspension, and that will be that.

Avatar bet that Brady serves <4 games.

 

[espnespn]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463486-did-deflated-footballs-really-give-the-patriots-a-fumble-advantage

"Sacks and scrambles accounted for 164 of the 523 offensive fumbles in the NFL last season. On a per-play basis, a sack is far more likely to result in a fumble than any other offensive play. A team that avoids sacks is likely to have a low fumble rate. As the table shows, the Patriots have been one of the league's best teams at avoiding sacks for the past three seasons."

"The data suggests that the Patriots are not necessarily a team that rarely fumbles. They are a team that rarely allows sacks, which therefore depresses their fumble rates."

 

[The General]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

With the exception of Brady not giving his cell phone, the Pats have said they have done absolutely nothing wrong, correct?

They seem to have admitted that it was a mistake hiring Lloyd Christmas and Harry as ballboys as well.

True.

Will Brady/Pats be happy with a reduction? Seems like they have painted themselves into the "all or nothing" corner.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think all of this positioning is just to make it clear that the Patriots could go nuclear if they wanted to and to make it appear that they are willing to do so. Whether or not they would be successful in court is a complete mystery to me, but the prospect of dragging this out for months gives them leverage IMO - it's not like they have anything to lose. Goodell is hearing the appeal so he can try and essentially feel out/negotiate what kind of reduction in penalties would make the whole thing go away IMO.

The Patriots have something very close to zero leverage. The bolded part in particular is flat-out delusional. I would be genuinely shocked if Goodell adjusted Brady's suspension in any way.

Edit: If you think New England has some kind of hand to play here, you need to put down the Boston papers. Brady's suspension and the penalty imposed on the team are both overwhelmingly popular with fans, and the entire team is currently a laughingstock thanks to yesterday's "rebuttal." Goodell is going to hear the appeal, uphold the suspension, and that will be that.

Avatar bet that Brady serves <4 games.

Things just got serious.

I don't do sig bets or stuff like that. I've been wrong about stuff lots of times, and I'll be wrong about lots of stuff in the future. No worries.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Suing the NFL seems the least likely outcome. That wouldn't be settled until well after Brady's retired.

You would have to destroy the CBA that the players agreed to.

Why? Vilma did it (successfully).

I wonder how the late Al Davis would have handled this if he was in the same position as the Pats are now

He'd sue, and he'd win.

Then he'd draft a track guy, a kicker, a sweat suit tailor, and follow up by moving the team to Bakersfield.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463486-did-deflated-footballs-really-give-the-patriots-a-fumble-advantage

"Sacks and scrambles accounted for 164 of the 523 offensive fumbles in the NFL last season. On a per-play basis, a sack is far more likely to result in a fumble than any other offensive play. A team that avoids sacks is likely to have a low fumble rate. As the table shows, the Patriots have been one of the league's best teams at avoiding sacks for the past three seasons."

"The data suggests that the Patriots are not necessarily a team that rarely fumbles. They are a team that rarely allows sacks, which therefore depresses their fumble rates."

Might have more sacks if he didnt have such a good grip on the ball.

 

[BroadwayG]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463486-did-deflated-footballs-really-give-the-patriots-a-fumble-advantage

"Sacks and scrambles accounted for 164 of the 523 offensive fumbles in the NFL last season. On a per-play basis, a sack is far more likely to result in a fumble than any other offensive play. A team that avoids sacks is likely to have a low fumble rate. As the table shows, the Patriots have been one of the league's best teams at avoiding sacks for the past three seasons."

"The data suggests that the Patriots are not necessarily a team that rarely fumbles. They are a team that rarely allows sacks, which therefore depresses their fumble rates."

Might have more sacks if he didnt have such a good grip on the ball.

What does his grip have to do with sacks?

 

[pizzatyme]

Here's my guess on the final outcome:

Negotiated reduction to 2 games for Brady. All else stands. And Goodell states the reason for the 2 games is the lack of cooperation in the investigation.

This allows Brady to claim that's why he was suspended and NOT for cheating.

Win-win and yet we all lose.

I fully believe Brady was in on it and not much would change that opinion.

*

 

[BigSteelThrill]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463486-did-deflated-footballs-really-give-the-patriots-a-fumble-advantage

"Sacks and scrambles accounted for 164 of the 523 offensive fumbles in the NFL last season. On a per-play basis, a sack is far more likely to result in a fumble than any other offensive play. A team that avoids sacks is likely to have a low fumble rate. As the table shows, the Patriots have been one of the league's best teams at avoiding sacks for the past three seasons."

"The data suggests that the Patriots are not necessarily a team that rarely fumbles. They are a team that rarely allows sacks, which therefore depresses their fumble rates."

Might have more sacks if he didnt have such a good grip on the ball.

What does his grip have to do with sacks?

When a defender runs past the QB and chops at him, a fumble caused is registered as a sack.

 

[jonessed]

Boston must be the biggest echo chamber in the country.

 

[Anarchy99]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463486-did-deflated-footballs-really-give-the-patriots-a-fumble-advantage

"Sacks and scrambles accounted for 164 of the 523 offensive fumbles in the NFL last season. On a per-play basis, a sack is far more likely to result in a fumble than any other offensive play. A team that avoids sacks is likely to have a low fumble rate. As the table shows, the Patriots have been one of the league's best teams at avoiding sacks for the past three seasons."

"The data suggests that the Patriots are not necessarily a team that rarely fumbles. They are a team that rarely allows sacks, which therefore depresses their fumble rates."

Might have more sacks if he didnt have such a good grip on the ball.

What does his grip have to do with sacks?

When a defender runs past the QB and chops at him, a fumble caused is registered as a sack.

Are you asserting that a QB holding a football inflated with a pound less air pressure will be more likely to hold onto the ball when a 300 lb D-lineman karate chops his arm from the blind side before the QB crumbles to the ground?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463486-did-deflated-footballs-really-give-the-patriots-a-fumble-advantage

"Sacks and scrambles accounted for 164 of the 523 offensive fumbles in the NFL last season. On a per-play basis, a sack is far more likely to result in a fumble than any other offensive play. A team that avoids sacks is likely to have a low fumble rate. As the table shows, the Patriots have been one of the league's best teams at avoiding sacks for the past three seasons."

"The data suggests that the Patriots are not necessarily a team that rarely fumbles. They are a team that rarely allows sacks, which therefore depresses their fumble rates."

Might have more sacks if he didnt have such a good grip on the ball.

What does his grip have to do with sacks?

When a defender runs past the QB and chops at him, a fumble caused is registered as a sack.

Are you asserting that a QB holding a football inflated with a pound less air pressure will be more likely to hold onto the ball when a 300 lb D-lineman karate chops his arm from the blind side before the QB crumbles to the ground?

Yes. Obviously the less inflated it is the better grip you have. There is no debate on that.