Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)

[Baloney Sandwich]

If Goodell does in fact give his decision today, there can be no doubt him and the NFL want nothing more than to maximize the coverage on this story. Also, I would think if Goodell expects the NFLPA to take him to court even if he reduces the suspension to 1 or 2 games then he will just keep the suspension at 4 games.

 

[jmo87usc]

Is there any chance Goodell can extend the suspension another 4 games to punish them for carrying on this ridiculous "deflator" weight loss explanation? I mean, I know their lawyers are trying to win on a technicality, but this sounds like something my kids would have come up with. I expect a better story from a $1.5 bil franchise paying thousands to lawyers.

 

[Anarchy99]

There's a lot involved in this decision.

If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.

The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.

But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.

But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.

They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.

And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.

No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.

They were discussing this exact scenario on the radio this morning. The problem for the NFL would be that they already cleared Kraft of any wrong doing, they already cleared BB of any wrong doing, and they would then be saying Brady didn't do anything (but got one game suspension for not cooperating with the investigation).

In that situation, why then would the Patriots as a franchise still be burdened with the loss of draft picks and a huge fine when the league cleared pretty much anyone of authority of any wrongdoing?

At this point, I think if the league does anything at all to punish Brady, he will take it to court. I actually think Goodell would prefer that. That way, he can say he didn't cave, he doled out a decent penalty, and let someone else undo his decision. At least he would not come off as giving preferential treatment to the Patriots.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

There's a lot involved in this decision.

If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.

The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.

But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.

But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.

They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.

And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.

No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.

They were discussing this exact scenario on the radio this morning. The problem for the NFL would be that they already cleared Kraft of any wrong doing, they already cleared BB of any wrong doing, and they would then be saying Brady didn't do anything (but got one game suspension for not cooperating with the investigation).

In that situation, why then would the Patriots as a franchise still be burdened with the loss of draft picks and a huge fine when the league cleared pretty much anyone of authority of any wrongdoing?

At this point, I think if the league does anything at all to punish Brady, he will take it to court. I actually think Goodell would prefer that. That way, he can say he didn't cave, he doled out a decent penalty, and let someone else undo his decision. At least he would not come off as giving preferential treatment to the Patriots.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kraft+innocednt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=kraft+innocent

 

[Anarchy99]

There's a lot involved in this decision.

If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.

The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.

But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.

But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.

They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.

And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.

No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.

They were discussing this exact scenario on the radio this morning. The problem for the NFL would be that they already cleared Kraft of any wrong doing, they already cleared BB of any wrong doing, and they would then be saying Brady didn't do anything (but got one game suspension for not cooperating with the investigation).

In that situation, why then would the Patriots as a franchise still be burdened with the loss of draft picks and a huge fine when the league cleared pretty much anyone of authority of any wrongdoing?

At this point, I think if the league does anything at all to punish Brady, he will take it to court. I actually think Goodell would prefer that. That way, he can say he didn't cave, he doled out a decent penalty, and let someone else undo his decision. At least he would not come off as giving preferential treatment to the Patriots.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kraft+innocednt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=kraft+innocent

Taken directly from Page 3 of the Wells Report

"In particular, we do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated."

Am I somehow misinterpreting that?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

There's a lot involved in this decision.

If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.

The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.

But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.

But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.

They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.

And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.

No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.

They were discussing this exact scenario on the radio this morning. The problem for the NFL would be that they already cleared Kraft of any wrong doing, they already cleared BB of any wrong doing, and they would then be saying Brady didn't do anything (but got one game suspension for not cooperating with the investigation).

In that situation, why then would the Patriots as a franchise still be burdened with the loss of draft picks and a huge fine when the league cleared pretty much anyone of authority of any wrongdoing?

At this point, I think if the league does anything at all to punish Brady, he will take it to court. I actually think Goodell would prefer that. That way, he can say he didn't cave, he doled out a decent penalty, and let someone else undo his decision. At least he would not come off as giving preferential treatment to the Patriots.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kraft+innocednt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=kraft+innocent

If this is wrong, I don't want him to be right

http://www.mountrantmore.com/girls/does-she-or-doesnt-she-robert-krafts-girlfriend-ricki-lander/

 

[Old Smiley]

There's a lot involved in this decision.

If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.

The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.

But the nflpa will still fight it, because they don't want player reps to be suspended for refusing to provide their personal cell phone (even with the assurances from the league and investigator). They can't allow this precedent to stand.

But if they're going to fight it on that ground, then they would have to say that the non cooperation was something other than the cell phone records. But that is inconsistent with the wells report.

They could drop the suspension altogether, which would make the nflpa and Brady happy, but then the league would be in a bind with their come down hard on anyncrime policy. And the team would have gotten the worst penalty in NFL history and the qb nothing. Fans would howl on both sides, and if they didn't already, owners would have legitimate questions about Goodell.

And the timing of the hardy suspension reduction makes this even more complicated.

No matter what happens someone is going to be unhappy. In the absence of a clear win I suspect Goodell will choose the option that most favors him personally. I think he gambles that a Brady law suit will be postponed repeatedly and does not reduce it at all. But that's just my guess right now.

They were discussing this exact scenario on the radio this morning. The problem for the NFL would be that they already cleared Kraft of any wrong doing, they already cleared BB of any wrong doing, and they would then be saying Brady didn't do anything (but got one game suspension for not cooperating with the investigation).

In that situation, why then would the Patriots as a franchise still be burdened with the loss of draft picks and a huge fine when the league cleared pretty much anyone of authority of any wrongdoing?

At this point, I think if the league does anything at all to punish Brady, he will take it to court. I actually think Goodell would prefer that. That way, he can say he didn't cave, he doled out a decent penalty, and let someone else undo his decision. At least he would not come off as giving preferential treatment to the Patriots.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kraft+innocednt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=kraft+innocent

If this is wrong, I don't want him to be right

http://www.mountrantmore.com/girls/does-she-or-doesnt-she-robert-krafts-girlfriend-ricki-lander/

It's GOOD to be king...

 

[skinsrule05]

There's a lot involved in this decision.

If they don't reduce the suspension, this will certainly lead to a law suit that the NFL doesn't want.

The easy way out for the league would be to just say that the suspension had been reduced because there was no evidence that Brady was complicit but he is still suspended because of lack of participation. That makes the league happy, and Brady happy, because he gets cleared of wrong doing.

I don't think Brady would be happy with that. Saying he wasn't forthcoming in the investigation and there is no evidence would leave everyone believing he hid the truth. He will still be guilty in the eyes of the public. This whole suit isn't because he is scared of losing four game checks. He is scared of being labeled a cheater and his whole legacy tarnished.

 

[Faust]

Deflategate primer: Brady's ban will be reduced, or expect a fight with NFL

 

[jonessed]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

 

[Koya]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

We are most as tired of kit moreso to hear those fans who are too blind to accept and admit that there had been rampant and repeated cheating. That was the case BEFORE deflate gate and it the reason deflate gate still stings the rest of us.

Just admit that your team has a long history of cheating and that HAS to play some role in how history views them. It's simple as that.

And so long as there are small minded Pollyanna pats fans looking to ignore, there will be those of us that are generally sane and appropriate posters who won't let you all forget that reality - bombastic approach and all as needed.

And after that we can also remind you it's NOT jealousy. It's pity.

You know, like how much a pity it must have been to see the greatest season in sports history come to a screeching end to the team that beat you in two Super Bowls. And to be done so by an Organization that exemplifies true class, not class outside the lines as cheating within them.

 

[ratbast]

The Commish has pinned himself in the corner by overseeing the appeal.

My prediction is based on the domino effect that would result in changing the penalty.He will keep it as is and let it go to court. If he reduces the suspension in any way I would think the court case for the NFL Players association gains strength.

The smart thing would be to recognize the organization as the fault, not any individual. Thus maintain those penalties and giving Brady his reasonable doubt.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't think going to court ends well for Goodell. He basically spins a wheel, gathers *some evidence, has no base standard of evidence for all players and incidents, and throws a dart on punishment. Rice and Peterson won and Vilma would have likely won too if not fir Tags himself magically overturning Goodell. This rule was enacted in 1934 and no ref has ever checked a ball midgame and no player has ever been punished for it? Goodell has taken on too much, no matter how you view the guy he has so much conduct to govern with no real standards. Good luck defending that.

 

[Old Smiley]

Thing is, when the league loses in court, which they almost always do, Goodell doesn't take any heat. I myself don't know why, but although his rulings are consistently overturned, there doesn't seem to be any PR hit.

Since Goodell only sees the world in terms of PR, I don't think he cares.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

Same here. I think NE fans are deluding themselves if they think that a federal court isn't going to give the NFL extremely wide latitude in how it handles cheating. This isn't Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy. As long as the NFL followed its own policy, which it didn't in the cases I just mentioned, it's probably going to win.

The funny thing is that the court will very likely grant a request for an injunction since they can't go back and undo a suspension that's already been served, which means that Brady will end up sitting later in the season instead of earlier.

 

[Green and Gold]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

We are most as tired of kit moreso to hear those fans who are too blind to accept and admit that there had been rampant and repeated cheating. That was the case BEFORE deflate gate and it the reason deflate gate still stings the rest of us.

Just admit that your team has a long history of cheating and that HAS to play some role in how history views them. It's simple as that.

And so long as there are small minded Pollyanna pats fans looking to ignore, there will be those of us that are generally sane and appropriate posters who won't let you all forget that reality - bombastic approach and all as needed.

And after that we can also remind you it's NOT jealousy. It's pity.

You know, like how much a pity it must have been to see the greatest season in sports history come to a screeching end to the team that beat you in two Super Bowls. And to be done so by an Organization that exemplifies true class, not class outside the lines as cheating within them.

Didn't Belichick coach for the Giants for 12 years, and is in fact where he rose through the ranks and learned how to coach?

 

[Stealthycat]

in how it handles cheating

there is no proof of cheating ... a lot of accusations and the worst part is the Colts had 75% of their balls deflated too ..... lawyers are licking their chops to get at this fiasco

nobody is every guilty when its " more probable than not "

 

[Pots]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

Same here. I think NE fans are deluding themselves if they think that a federal court isn't going to give the NFL extremely wide latitude in how it handles cheating. This isn't Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy. As long as the NFL followed its own policy, which it didn't in the cases I just mentioned, it's probably going to win.

The funny thing is that the court will very likely grant a request for an injunction since they can't go back and undo a suspension that's already been served, which means that Brady will end up sitting later in the season instead of earlier.

 

[socrates]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

Same here. I think NE fans are deluding themselves if they think that a federal court isn't going to give the NFL extremely wide latitude in how it handles cheating. This isn't Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy. As long as the NFL followed its own policy, which it didn't in the cases I just mentioned, it's probably going to win.

The funny thing is that the court will very likely grant a request for an injunction since they can't go back and undo a suspension that's already been served, which means that Brady will end up sitting later in the season instead of earlier.

I would not count on a resolution that quickly. This has the potential to drag on well beyond this season.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

Same here. I think NE fans are deluding themselves if they think that a federal court isn't going to give the NFL extremely wide latitude in how it handles cheating. This isn't Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy. As long as the NFL followed its own policy, which it didn't in the cases I just mentioned, it's probably going to win.

The funny thing is that the court will very likely grant a request for an injunction since they can't go back and undo a suspension that's already been served, which means that Brady will end up sitting later in the season instead of earlier.

I would not count on a resolution that quickly. This has the potential to drag on well beyond this season.

That would be amusing as well.

 

[squistion]

in how it handles cheating

there is no proof of cheating ... a lot of accusations and the worst part is the Colts had 75% of their balls deflated too ..... lawyers are licking their chops to get at this fiasconobody is ever guilty when its "more probable than not"

It is the standard of proof required in most civil lawsuits:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/more-probable-than-not-carries-important-legal-meaning/

"More probable than not" carries important legal meaning

Posted by Mike Florio on May 6, 2015

To the non-lawyer, the money quotes from the Ted Wells report suggest a mere probability that cheating occurred. But the specific terminology used by Wells actually indicates a belief that the evidence satisfies one of the most common standards used in a court of law.

"More probable than not" equates to a "preponderance of the evidence," the standard that applies in most civil lawsuits. It means that the evidence makes it more likely than not, in the opinion of the investigator, that "New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules," and that Tom Brady . . . was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities.

That's a standard perhaps even higher than the one that applies to players accused of violating the Personal Conduct Policy, where "credible corroborating evidence" (even without cooperation from the alleged victim) can result in a significant suspension. Regardless, its enough proof on which the NFL can base punishment of a team.

"Too often, competitive violations have gone unpunished because conclusive proof of the violation was lacking," Commissioner Roger Goodell wrote to the NFLs Competition Committee in 2008, after the last game-integrity infraction involving the Patriots. "I believe we should reconsider the standard of proof to be applied in such cases, and make it easier for a competitive violation to be established."

Although there was nothing easy about the Wells investigation, his decision that a preponderance of the evidence points to a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules gives Goodell the green light to impose discipline.

Still, the use of the term "more probable than not" takes some of the sting out of the finding by allowing non-lawyers to believe that, as Patriots owner Robert Kraft has always said, there was no hard evidence of cheating. When it comes to issues of this nature, hard evidence isnt needed to justify a stringent punishment.

 

[Stealthycat]

squistiongood post - however it truly still is in the eye of the beholder and what about those cheating Colts and that cheater QB Luck ?

again - I believe lawyers would have a hay day with it

 

[skinsrule05]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

Same here. I think NE fans are deluding themselves if they think that a federal court isn't going to give the NFL extremely wide latitude in how it handles cheating. This isn't Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson or Greg Hardy. As long as the NFL followed its own policy, which it didn't in the cases I just mentioned, it's probably going to win.

The funny thing is that the court will very likely grant a request for an injunction since they can't go back and undo a suspension that's already been served, which means that Brady will end up sitting later in the season instead of earlier.

I would not count on a resolution that quickly. This has the potential to drag on well beyond this season.

That would be extremely bad for Brady. I am sure his legal team would try to move it along quicker. The longer he is labeled a cheater, the more stadiums he goes into and gets booed the harder it would be to fix his reputation. The average fan is not going to be reading these boards. The average fan will just think he cheated and had to use the courts to temporarily be allowed to play.

 

[sho nuff]

squistion

good post - however it truly still is in the eye of the beholder and what about those cheating Colts and that cheater QB Luck ?

again - I believe lawyers would have a hay day with it

Yes...the NFL lawyers would have a hay day with Brady.

 

[Jercules]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

We are most as tired of kit moreso to hear those fans who are too blind to accept and admit that there had been rampant and repeated cheating. That was the case BEFORE deflate gate and it the reason deflate gate still stings the rest of us.

Just admit that your team has a long history of cheating and that HAS to play some role in how history views them. It's simple as that.

And so long as there are small minded Pollyanna pats fans looking to ignore, there will be those of us that are generally sane and appropriate posters who won't let you all forget that reality - bombastic approach and all as needed.

And after that we can also remind you it's NOT jealousy. It's pity.

You know, like how much a pity it must have been to see the greatest season in sports history come to a screeching end to the team that beat you in two Super Bowls. And to be done so by an Organization that exemplifies true class, not class outside the lines as cheating within them.

http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

The Giants have been prolific NFL cheaters, specifically with regards to injury faking. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV3K_ML2UsI)

Lawrence Taylor used to exemplify true class! by sending hookers up to the hotel rooms of significant opposing players in order to wear them out on the eves of games (he says it worked splendidly! Go Giants!)

2001 is very interesting: Both the Eagles and Vikings accused the Giants of intercepting radio signals between coaches and QBs during their respective playoff games. Understand, this wouldn't be some phony-baloney nonsense of the Patriots' spygate variety, this would be straight up stealing radio signals so as to know what offensive plays were coming and defend accordingly. Do we know this happened for sure? No, because the NFL went to great lengths to cover it up. That NFCCG against the Randy Moss Vikings was suspiciously one-sided though...

* * * * *

Who pities a fan base that in 14 years has enjoyed 4 SB wins, 6 SB appearances, countless division championships, countless playoff runs, countless routs of supposedly serious foes... ???

What we've done to Andrew Luck alone makes me wildly proud to be a Patriots fan.

And why do I have to admit we have a long history of cheating? We don't have a long history of cheating! We don't even have a compelling recent history of cheating!

And what's most fascinating of all is, this pathetic post comes from a fan of the one organization in the NFL that should have zero insecurities about the Patriots. You beat us twice in recent Super Bowls, be happy dude!

Let the other bitter fan bases whine and cry and pretend a few psis in a football, or recording defensive signals from the wrong place, made all the difference!

This crazy thread...

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

People outside the Boston echo chamber are tired of the cheating. Let the Patriots fight it and continue to drag it out in the news. The more people that dive into the history the better.

We are most as tired of kit moreso to hear those fans who are too blind to accept and admit that there had been rampant and repeated cheating. That was the case BEFORE deflate gate and it the reason deflate gate still stings the rest of us.

Just admit that your team has a long history of cheating and that HAS to play some role in how history views them. It's simple as that.

And so long as there are small minded Pollyanna pats fans looking to ignore, there will be those of us that are generally sane and appropriate posters who won't let you all forget that reality - bombastic approach and all as needed.

And after that we can also remind you it's NOT jealousy. It's pity.

You know, like how much a pity it must have been to see the greatest season in sports history come to a screeching end to the team that beat you in two Super Bowls. And to be done so by an Organization that exemplifies true class, not class outside the lines as cheating within them.

Didn't Belichick coach for the Giants for 12 years, and is in fact where he rose through the ranks and learned how to coach?

he actually started back on the colts in the 70s the lions too

 

[BigSteelThrill]

http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

Stop posting that... its a Patriots fan site.

Go to Patsfans forum and you can see the guys discussing their work on it.

 

[Jercules]

http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

Stop posting that... its a Patriots fan site.

Go to Patsfans forum and you can see the guys discussing their work on it.

Gosh, a few more emoticons and this post might have a point.

 

[Pots]

http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

Stop posting that... its a Patriots fan site.

Go to Patsfans forum and you can see the guys discussing their work on it.

Gosh, a few more emoticons and this post might have a point.

If you missed his point, then you might have a reading comprehension issue.

 

[CoolHandLukeB]

http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

Stop posting that... its a Patriots fan site.

Go to Patsfans forum and you can see the guys discussing their work on it.

Did you give up on the "Kraft hasn't been cleared of wrongdoing" angle so quickly? That's not much fun.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

Stop posting that... its a Patriots fan site.

Go to Patsfans forum and you can see the guys discussing their work on it.

Did you give up on the "Kraft hasn't been cleared of wrongdoing" angle so quickly? That's not much fun.

No, when the TEAM is fined and penalized... that's Kraft. That's his million dollars that was paid.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

CoolHandLukeB

 

[Godsbrother]

He'll get an injunction and Brady will play the season home opener. If his suspension is reduced to only 1 game he may elect to drop the fight so he misses the Jaguars game but more that likely this will drag in court until after the 2015 season.

 

[Bayhawks]

He'll get an injunction and Brady will play the season home opener. If his suspension is reduced to only 1 game he may elect to drop the fight so he misses the Jaguars game but more that likely this will drag in court until after the 2015 season.

I'd like to see it reduced to 1 game, then have it drag out until the playoffs; have the 1 game upheld; then have Brady miss the the playoff game, NE loses-all because TB is too arrogant to admit he's wrong & more concerned with his own fame then what is best for the team.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

He'll get an injunction and Brady will play the season home opener. If his suspension is reduced to only 1 game he may elect to drop the fight so he misses the Jaguars game but more that likely this will drag in court until after the 2015 season.

I'd like to see it reduced to 1 game, then have it drag out until the playoffs; have the 1 game upheld; then have Brady miss the the playoff game, NE loses-all because TB is too arrogant to admit he's wrong & more concerned with his own fame then what is best for the team.

It is, honestly, best for the team.

Even 1 game is going to leave the worst stain on this franchise forever.

 

[Workhorse]

Article about Brady's appeal, should it go that far:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/07/15/details-of-tom-bradys-potential-lawsuit-against-nfl-patriots-qb-could-possibly-start-week-1/

What the NFLPA will attack is that the league went beyond the scope of the rulebook and the collective bargaining agreement, the punishment was unprecedented and arbitrary, the procedures to determine if any rulebreaking occurred were flawed, and Goodell was unfit to serve as arbitrator of the appeal since he determined the guilt and punishment in the first place.

Ryan Smith (legal analyst from ABC News/ESPN) went on Mike and Mike this am to say that he thinks Brady has a 50/50 shot in court and if he were to bet on it, he believes that Brady will win his case.

 

[Burl]

Article about Brady's appeal, should it go that far:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/07/15/details-of-tom-bradys-potential-lawsuit-against-nfl-patriots-qb-could-possibly-start-week-1/

What the NFLPA will attack is that the league went beyond the scope of the rulebook and the collective bargaining agreement, the punishment was unprecedented and arbitrary, the procedures to determine if any rulebreaking occurred were flawed, and Goodell was unfit to serve as arbitrator of the appeal since he determined the guilt and punishment in the first place.

Ryan Smith (legal analyst from ABC News/ESPN) went on Mike and Mike this am to say that he thinks Brady has a 50/50 shot in court and if he were to bet on it, he believes that Brady will win his case.

Ryan Smith also said the only portion that Brady may have some standing in was the punishment being unprecedented. He also said the text messages/email/whatever are now fair game and can be requested by the NFL should it go that far.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Article about Brady's appeal, should it go that far:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/07/15/details-of-tom-bradys-potential-lawsuit-against-nfl-patriots-qb-could-possibly-start-week-1/

What the NFLPA will attack is that the league went beyond the scope of the rulebook and the collective bargaining agreement, the punishment was unprecedented and arbitrary, the procedures to determine if any rulebreaking occurred were flawed, and Goodell was unfit to serve as arbitrator of the appeal since he determined the guilt and punishment in the first place.

Ryan Smith (legal analyst from ABC News/ESPN) went on Mike and Mike this am to say that he thinks Brady has a 50/50 shot in court and if he were to bet on it, he believes that Brady will win his case.

Ryan Smith also said the only portion that Brady may have some standing in was the punishment being unprecedented. He also said the text messages/email/whatever are now fair game and can be requested by the NFL should it go that far.

The two peons, Gostkowski and almost anyone in the Pats org. can be brought in under oath.

And they could even ask questions about Spygate.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Can I also be a legal analyst if I just start saying everything is 50/50?

'Cos it'll either happen, or it won't.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

 

[socrates]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

The NFL ultimately won the Starcaps case, although it dragged out forever

 

[IvanKaramazov]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

When was the last time a sports league punished a player for cheating, and that player went on to prevail in court?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

When was the last time a sports league punished a player for cheating, and that player went on to prevail in court?

The NFL is going to have a tough time if this goes to court which it sounds like would either be in MA or MN. Both pro labor states and some really strong arguments the NFLPA can use. From the article posted earlier:

• The NFL policy for handling equipment in the NFL is in the club manual and pertains to club personnel, not players. The NFLPA would argue that the NFL suspended Brady four games under a policy that doesn’t apply to him.

• The Wells Report, the investigation on which the NFL based its suspension, alleged Brady was “at least generally aware” that footballs had been tampered. The NFLPA would argue that the “general awareness” standard has no legal merit – either Wells found direct evidence, or he didn’t.

• The NFLPA would argue Brady – given the rules in the club manual did apply to him – received a punishment without precedence. Under the collective bargaining agreement, players have a right to know specific punishment for specific violations.

• The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Brady’s suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand.

 

[apalmer]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 8m8 minutes ago

NFLPA sources tell ABC News' @ryansmithtv that if Tom Brady is suspended for any games, they expect to challenge decision in federal court.

What else are they going to say at this point? "If he decides to keep the suspension, we're going to smile nicely and accept it"? They have to threaten federal court or they're telling Goodell "do whatever you want".

 

[Bayhawks]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

When was the last time a sports league punished a player for cheating, and that player went on to prevail in court?

The NFL is going to have a tough time if this goes to court which it sounds like would either be in MA or MN. Both pro labor states and some really strong arguments the NFLPA can use. From the article posted earlier:

The NFL policy for handling equipment in the NFL is in the club manual and pertains to club personnel, not players. The NFLPA would argue that the NFL suspended Brady four games under a policy that doesnt apply to him.

The Wells Report, the investigation on which the NFL based its suspension, alleged Brady was at least generally aware that footballs had been tampered. The NFLPA would argue that the general awareness standard has no legal merit either Wells found direct evidence, or he didnt.

The NFLPA would argue Brady given the rules in the club manual did apply to him received a punishment without precedence. Under the collective bargaining agreement, players have a right to know specific punishment for specific violations.

The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Bradys suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand.

Its interesting that all the articles that cite how strong a case the NFLPA/Brady have conveniently ignore the fact that his punishment was also a result of his failure to cooperate with the investigation & that by going to court, those texts he was so determined to hide become fair game. Those are 2 key points, that if ignored, make it an entirely different situation than it actually is.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 8m8 minutes ago

NFLPA sources tell ABC News' @ryansmithtv that if Tom Brady is suspended for any games, they expect to challenge decision in federal court.

What else are they going to say at this point? "If he decides to keep the suspension, we're going to smile nicely and accept it"? They have to threaten federal court or they're telling Goodell "do whatever you want".

Well, to me the leaks are about the NFLPA's desire to take this to court. I think they are baiting Goodell to not reduce the punishment at all because ultimately they need Brady to be on board with going to court. My sense is the NFLPA is probably a bit afraid that a reduction down to 1-2 games and a clarification from the NFL that it is only for non-cooperation might cause Brady to waiver in his desire to go to court. Lots of agendas at play here.

 

[apalmer]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

When was the last time a sports league punished a player for cheating, and that player went on to prevail in court?

The NFL is going to have a tough time if this goes to court which it sounds like would either be in MA or MN. Both pro labor states and some really strong arguments the NFLPA can use. From the article posted earlier:

• The NFL policy for handling equipment in the NFL is in the club manual and pertains to club personnel, not players. The NFLPA would argue that the NFL suspended Brady four games under a policy that doesn’t apply to him. I don't claim to be an expert, but I suspect there are rules that are applicable to players that prohibit cheating and require cooperation with investigations.

• The Wells Report, the investigation on which the NFL based its suspension, alleged Brady was “at least generally aware” that footballs had been tampered. The NFLPA would argue that the “general awareness” standard has no legal merit – either Wells found direct evidence, or he didn’t. Then they would be wrong. He didn't control the actions directly by telling his minions HOW to do it, but the text messages indicate that he did make known what result he wanted from them. That makes him complicit.

• The NFLPA would argue Brady – given the rules in the club manual did apply to him – received a punishment without precedence. Under the collective bargaining agreement, players have a right to know specific punishment for specific violations. See point 1 above.

• The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Brady’s suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand. Perfect. Admit they violated the rules and open the door for the recidivist proof and let's pull in the Patriots past history. Give the NFL lawyers more of a reason to cross-examine on what Brady knew when he made it known that he wanted the rules broken and whether he just figured he'd get away with a slap on the wrist.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

When was the last time the NFL won in court?

When was the last time a sports league punished a player for cheating, and that player went on to prevail in court?

The NFL is going to have a tough time if this goes to court which it sounds like would either be in MA or MN. Both pro labor states and some really strong arguments the NFLPA can use. From the article posted earlier: The NFL policy for handling equipment in the NFL is in the club manual and pertains to club personnel, not players. The NFLPA would argue that the NFL suspended Brady four games under a policy that doesnt apply to him.

The Wells Report, the investigation on which the NFL based its suspension, alleged Brady was at least generally aware that footballs had been tampered. The NFLPA would argue that the general awareness standard has no legal merit either Wells found direct evidence, or he didnt.

The NFLPA would argue Brady given the rules in the club manual did apply to him received a punishment without precedence. Under the collective bargaining agreement, players have a right to know specific punishment for specific violations.

The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Bradys suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand.

Its interesting that all the articles that cite how strong a case the NFLPA/Brady have conveniently ignore the fact that his punishment was also a result of his failure to cooperate with the investigation & that by going to court, those texts he was so determined to hide become fair game. Those are 2 key points, that if ignored, make it an entirely different situation than it actually is.

Are you sure about that? I don't believe any of the above arguments necessarily opens the door to Brady having to turn over his phone. If the NFLPA is limiting themselves to the above arguments they are not disputing what is in the Wells Report.

 

[Anarchy99]

Favre got a $50,000 fine for refusing to turn over his phone, so that would serve as a precident for not suspending a player for not fully cooperating

 

[sho nuff]

Favre got a $50,000 fine for refusing to turn over his phone, so that would serve as a precident for not suspending a player for not fully cooperating

Favre was not accused of anything that involves what could be considered cheating on the field of play.