Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[Green and Gold]

Patriots have a long history of cheating dating back to at least 1982 when they brought out a snow plow in a game against Miami.

I remember the game - they beat us 3-0 (or very few points). It was a guy from prison driving the plow as I recall - work release or something like that.

Of course it was a prisoner driving the plow. Par for the course for the franchise.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

so its being reported that the Ravens may have also tipped the Colts off about deflated balls....if this is so how is it they didnt say anything to the league and why is it everyone but the refs can tell the balls are deflated?

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I'm pretty sure Belichick did it, but there is certainly room for reasonable doubt. It could have been Jay. Why were there so many changes in his story? And there weren't even phones at the Best Buy. Maybe Asia deflated the balls and is now covering for Bill.

 

[Thorn]

There's cheating and there's cheating. It's not like the Pats are all roided up. They blew Indy out. It's not like they got a slight edge to beat a superior team. I'm not condoning the behaviour, but it's also not like they paid off the refs. They deserve to be consequenced for violating the rules, but the reactions are also way overblown imo. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the haters are holding onto Hernandez for $1 in a dynasty.

what if they were doing the exact same thing the previous week, where they won by 4? A game where a single incompletion could have derailed a scoring drive?

The optics around that would obviously be a lot worse, but it's also not what's on the table currently being debated. Like I said, I'm not condoning it, but they blew Indy out and saying they cheated their way to the Superbowl is hyperbole at its finest.

Why don't u understand that beating Indy by a thousand pts doesnt excuse cheating. It's all about intent. Their arrogance and paranoid belief they need to cheat is the issue, not whether it actually makes a difference in the game.

It doesn't excuse it. It's a "punishment fits the crime" thing. On the one hand, people are calling for them to be banned from the SB or suspended for an entire year, yet on the other, you have demonstrable proof that it didn't give them an edge. Those don't square.

 

[yabahos]

The 'natural pressure change' argument is easy to explore. The formula is simple:

P1/T1 = P2/T2.

Lets take the very outer temperature limits of plausibility, say it was 75d F when they filled them, and 33dF when they tested (you have to change F to Kelvin to work this formula).

12.5PSI / 297K = X / 274K

Solve for X = 11.5 PSI

So even if the temp dropped farther than we know it dropped, at most you would lose 1 pound per square inch of pressure.

In order to lose 2PSI, the temperature the balls were filled at would have had to have been 127d F.

Apparently not that easy as we are now 1400+ posts in and people are still calculating this wrong. The equation is P1/T1 = P2/T2 rearrange the equation to solve for T2 so we get T2 = P2/P1*T1. All units of measure MUST be measured in absolute . For pressure you need to add the atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) to the pressure inside the ball. The temps need to be in absolute also so either in Kelvin (C + 273) or Rankine (F + 459).

So your example to find a 2 psi drop works out to:

P1 = 12.5 + 14.7 = 27.2

P2 = 10.5 + 14.7 = 25.2

T1 = 75 + 459 = 534

T2 = (25.2/27.2) * 534 = 494 degrees rankine subtract 459 to convert back to F = 35

So the change in temperature is 75 - 35 = 40 degrees for a 2 psi drop in pressure in the ball.

Its not just posters getting this wrong its actual people in the media putting out this foolishness. Felger and Mazz on 98.5 were talking about an 87 degree temperature swing required to get the 2 psi change in the ball.

 

[Tool]

Get your T-shirt to commemorate this once in a lifetime event.

Gronknation.com.

 

[Koya]

Not In history's eyes they won't be. Welcome to being the Barry Bonds of super bowl winners

Keep wishing for this really, really, really, really hard and maybe it will come true.

It already is.

They have continually cheated, AND been caught. Again, hard not to make the assumption that there are other incidents where they've cheated but haven't been caught. It's sad, because the success is tarnished and always will be.

 

[Koya]

Koya - I like you dude but your hot sports takes on this are a bit loony my friend

Pats fans have brought it upon themselves. I'm just spittballing*

* I mean, they are still cheaters, that's proven. And therefore, especially with the repeated nature of the infractions, their tremendous success has to carry the ol' asterik.

Plus, Pats fans. It's a good stress release on this board because the Pat's cheating and their bravado are a great combo.

PS: I like you too.

 

[Raider Nation]

Not In history's eyes they won't be. Welcome to being the Barry Bonds of super bowl winners

Keep wishing for this really, really, really, really hard and maybe it will come true.

It already is.

They have continually cheated, AND been caught. Again, hard not to make the assumption that there are other incidents where they've cheated but haven't been caught. It's sad, because the success is tarnished and always will be.

 

[biju]

As a Seattle fan I don't want the SB to be affected in any way whatsoever. I've heard the rumors about being banned from the SB and all that does is tarnish a Seattle win.

Instead, just ban him from the HOF, take a 3rd round pick and fine the franchise something so unreasonable it perhaps affects his status.

Just don't #### with this season.

 

[12punch]

so its being reported that the Ravens may have also tipped the Colts off about deflated balls....if this is so how is it they didnt say anything to the league and why is it everyone but the refs can tell the balls are deflated?

I think this is the only interesting angle to this whole nonsense story ---- what's the genesis of the actual complaint?

it's now apparently something they had in mind headed into the game, rather than that whole dq jax thing, so what prompted it?

defenders got their hands on balls in both the previous indy game, as well as the balt playoff game.

the indy game was indoors, however, which raises the question of standard practice, or just in wet weather for better grip.

pagano used to work for harbaugh, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if harbaugh wanted to stick the rulebook up belichick's ### after that playoff loss, and put this in pagano's ear.

then the question would remain as to what put harbaugh on that trail, but maybe it was simply a defender handling a pick, or something like that --- unless, of course, pees rolled over on us........

 

[Tool]

As a Seattle fan I don't want the SB to be affected in any way whatsoever. I've heard the rumors about being banned from the SB and all that does is tarnish a Seattle win.

Instead, just ban him from the HOF, take a 3rd round pick and fine the franchise something so unreasonable it perhaps affects his status.

Just don't #### with this season.

I've heard the ball boy's going to be banned. It would be a shame if the Seahawks won the game w/ the Pats down a ball boy and didn't get the credit they deserved.

 

[[icon]]

As a Seattle fan I don't want the SB to be affected in any way whatsoever. I've heard the rumors about being banned from the SB and all that does is tarnish a Seattle win.

Instead, just ban him from the HOF, take a 3rd round pick and fine the franchise something so unreasonable it perhaps affects his status.

Just don't #### with this season.

Unless the pats win.. Then we should put an asterisk on it becuase they "cheated" earlier in the season!

AMIRITE?!!!

 

[biju]

As a Seattle fan I don't want the SB to be affected in any way whatsoever. I've heard the rumors about being banned from the SB and all that does is tarnish a Seattle win.

Instead, just ban him from the HOF, take a 3rd round pick and fine the franchise something so unreasonable it perhaps affects his status.

Just don't #### with this season.

Unless the pats win.. Then we should put an asterisk on it becuase they "cheated" earlier in the season!

AMIRITE?!!!

I know you Pats fans can't let a single post go by with someone claiming "if the Seahawks win" with putting your stink on it, I don't really care what they did prior to the SB actually. I just would prefer there are zero questions about it one way or the other. That way if Boston's unthinkable actually does happen you can cry real tears instead of going full-Cowboys-fans on it.

 

[yabahos]

Interesting read that includes some information I hadn't seen on how the balls get from officials to sidelines and into games -

A person with intimate knowledge of the process told USA TODAY Sports the ball attendant is a uniformed official – generally the same person each week at a given stadium – who comes to the locker room to pick up the balls and takes them to the officials' locker room for testing. The ball attendant delivers the balls to the ball boys – usually four provided by the home team and two traveling with the visiting team – who make sure their quarterback's preferred balls get into the game, said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak publicly.

At halftime, the balls return to the officials' locker room, the person said. So, if proper protocol is followed, the only opportunity to manipulate the balls is minutes before kickoff or during the game on the sideline, where there's a risk of anyone in the stadium and dozens of TV cameras seeing it.

Citing "league sources either involved or familiar with the investigation," ESPN reported Tuesday night that 11 of the Patriots' 12 game balls Sunday were underinflated by 2 pounds per square inch. The NFL and the Colts declined comment, and the Patriots reiterated they're cooperating with the league's investigation. Asked how long it takes to change and measure the pressure of a football, the person said, "Ten seconds. But if they were all exactly 2 pounds under? It would be almost impossible to get them exactly all the same weight or the same psi.

"That, or you'd have to be really good at knowing exactly where to pull the needle. And then what if you take too much out? How are you going to pump it back up on the field? You can't. You need a ball pump to do it. That's what's even more weird about it. Too many moving parts."

So given the number of cameras at the game you have to think if they deflated the balls on the sidelines then its on film somewhere. I'm sure the media outlets covering the game are reviewing their files as this footage would be worth its weight in gold and ratings.

However, if they used warmer air (from a room that was about 85 F for instance) to fill the balls it would tie some things up nicely. First it explains how the balls were close to 2 psi under the allowable pressure. Since its just based on the temperature in the ball, and the balls were outside, all balls would be about the same temperature and pressure. Second it also explains how the balls passed the initial inspection before the game. By filling them up a few minutes before they are turned over to the referees for measurement the balls would show a pressure that was acceptable. Over the two hours the balls remain in the custody of the referees the warmer air inside the ball would cool and therefore decrease the pressure in the ball. Once you put the balls outside they would continue to cool and decrease the pressure even more.

 

[[icon]]

As a Seattle fan I don't want the SB to be affected in any way whatsoever. I've heard the rumors about being banned from the SB and all that does is tarnish a Seattle win.

Instead, just ban him from the HOF, take a 3rd round pick and fine the franchise something so unreasonable it perhaps affects his status.

Just don't #### with this season.

Unless the pats win.. Then we should put an asterisk on it becuase they "cheated" earlier in the season!AMIRITE?!!!

I know you Pats fans can't let a single post go by with someone claiming "if the Seahawks win" with putting your stink on it, I don't really care what they did prior to the SB actually. I just would prefer there are zero questions about it one way or the other. That way if Boston's unthinkable actually does happen you can cry real tears instead of going full-Cowboys-fans on it.

"We are allowed to hypothesize about our team winning, but if you do it we're going to get salty about it"The only people saying seattle winning is unthinkable are seattle fans putting words jn Boston fans mouths. The game is a pick'em. I was happy to get money on SEA +1 and SEA +1.5. I do see them as a slight favorite here.

However given this is merely an Internet forum aka source of entertainment, coupled with the fact that this thread has already become more redundant than the collective works of John Grisham... some of us chose to entertain ourselves by poking overly emotional folks with verbal sticks every now and again.

 

[biju]

As a Seattle fan I don't want the SB to be affected in any way whatsoever. I've heard the rumors about being banned from the SB and all that does is tarnish a Seattle win.

Instead, just ban him from the HOF, take a 3rd round pick and fine the franchise something so unreasonable it perhaps affects his status.

Just don't #### with this season.

Unless the pats win.. Then we should put an asterisk on it becuase they "cheated" earlier in the season!AMIRITE?!!!

I know you Pats fans can't let a single post go by with someone claiming "if the Seahawks win" with putting your stink on it, I don't really care what they did prior to the SB actually. I just would prefer there are zero questions about it one way or the other. That way if Boston's unthinkable actually does happen you can cry real tears instead of going full-Cowboys-fans on it.

"We are allowed to hypothesize about our team winning, but if you do it we're going to get salty about it"

Maybe it sounds like awesome homerism to you, but it kind of reeks of fear to me. You're not going to see me give two ####s about all of the claims Boston is making. I'll just try my hardest to counter with a fun, reasonable debate on Xs and Os and hope someone will follow along.

 

[12punch]

I know this hot ball theory is gaining popularity, but wouldn't refs find it odd that they need ####### oven mitts to handle these things on a 40 degree day?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not In history's eyes they won't be. Welcome to being the Barry Bonds of super bowl winners

Keep wishing for this really, really, really, really hard and maybe it will come true.

It already is.

They have continually cheated, AND been caught. Again, hard not to make the assumption that there are other incidents where they've cheated but haven't been caught. It's sad, because the success is tarnished and always will be.

Continually? You have proof of this?

 

[shader]

So despite any additional facts, rumors are now swirling about the Pats being taken out of the super bowl? People are funny.

 

[Run It Up]

So, D'Qwell Jackson said that he didn't report anything to anyone and noticed no difference. Harbaww said he has no idea what people are talking about in regards to balls. Justin Tucker has said he noticed absolutely nothing about the K-balls.

So, seriously, who the #### is the source of these rumors?

 

[The General]

Where are people getting these "rumors" from? All I'm seeing is a few sports writers giving opinions.

 

[12punch]

So, D'Qwell Jackson said that he didn't report anything to anyone and noticed no difference. Harbaww said he has no idea what people are talking about in regards to balls. Justin Tucker has said he noticed absolutely nothing about the K-balls.

So, seriously, who the #### is the source of these rumors?

has to be pagano or harbaugh --- harbaugh could be bs'ing

what was the story with pees leaving -- could he be disgruntled?

edit: here's a quote from pees

“And second of all, the kind of thought that it didn’t end well in New England is totally false. I am great friends with Bill Belichick, with [Patriots linebackers coach] Pepper Johnson, with all those guys. You guys have no idea why I left there, and you never will. So whatever reason you guys think I left, you don’t know.

“And there’s nothing I have negative about New England. The players up there, the coaches up there are great friends. I had an opportunity to leave and I left.”

Though he was asked about McDaniels and the opportunity that eluded him with the Broncos, Pees didn’t comment on that.

 

[DropKick]

Interesting read that includes some information I hadn't seen on how the balls get from officials to sidelines and into games -

A person with intimate knowledge of the process told USA TODAY Sports the ball attendant is a uniformed official – generally the same person each week at a given stadium – who comes to the locker room to pick up the balls and takes them to the officials' locker room for testing. The ball attendant delivers the balls to the ball boys – usually four provided by the home team and two traveling with the visiting team – who make sure their quarterback's preferred balls get into the game, said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak publicly.

At halftime, the balls return to the officials' locker room, the person said. So, if proper protocol is followed, the only opportunity to manipulate the balls is minutes before kickoff or during the game on the sideline, where there's a risk of anyone in the stadium and dozens of TV cameras seeing it.

Citing "league sources either involved or familiar with the investigation," ESPN reported Tuesday night that 11 of the Patriots' 12 game balls Sunday were underinflated by 2 pounds per square inch. The NFL and the Colts declined comment, and the Patriots reiterated they're cooperating with the league's investigation. Asked how long it takes to change and measure the pressure of a football, the person said, "Ten seconds. But if they were all exactly 2 pounds under? It would be almost impossible to get them exactly all the same weight or the same psi.

"That, or you'd have to be really good at knowing exactly where to pull the needle. And then what if you take too much out? How are you going to pump it back up on the field? You can't. You need a ball pump to do it. That's what's even more weird about it. Too many moving parts."

So given the number of cameras at the game you have to think if they deflated the balls on the sidelines then its on film somewhere. I'm sure the media outlets covering the game are reviewing their files as this footage would be worth its weight in gold and ratings.

However, if they used warmer air (from a room that was about 85 F for instance) to fill the balls it would tie some things up nicely. First it explains how the balls were close to 2 psi under the allowable pressure. Since its just based on the temperature in the ball, and the balls were outside, all balls would be about the same temperature and pressure. Second it also explains how the balls passed the initial inspection before the game. By filling them up a few minutes before they are turned over to the referees for measurement the balls would show a pressure that was acceptable. Over the two hours the balls remain in the custody of the referees the warmer air inside the ball would cool and therefore decrease the pressure in the ball. Once you put the balls outside they would continue to cool and decrease the pressure even more.

The process of handling and controlling the balls is interesting - as is the technical aspects of atmospheric impact on pressure. i thought it odd the balls were so uniform. At least, we think that the case based on what's been said. However, the story is changing by the day.... Yesterday, the Colts were alleged to question the ball after a pick. Now the questions may go back to November or were possibly raised by the Ravens last week. I'll withhold judgement until the NFL makes a formal statement.

 

[ratbast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FAT_pRqo3w

 

[msudaisy26]

Pretty much

 

[Run It Up]

10/10 would watch again.

 

[12punch]

quoting a poster from a pats board (weei is the local pats coverage station)

So on WEEI they said the head coaches at the senior bowl are angry and disgusted that this is such a big issue

 

[dickey moe]

BREAKING...

 

[12punch]

Deflate-Gate: An NFL Ball Boy's Perspective

 

[12punch]

Mike Loyko @NEPD_Loyko · 1h 1 hour ago

Source: Two NFL Teams are livid w/ #Colts for bringing this to light because of scrutiny itll bring to their QBs PSI preference on the ball

 

[[icon]]

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

be careful what you wish for. all thread long the Pats defenders have been putting up one thin defense after another, and they keep getting shot down as more info comes to light. with all the cameras around, it won't surprise me even a little if someone eventually comes up with some video of a Patriots equipment manager suspiciously handling the footballs.

Had the same thought. If it happened on the field there's either a video missing from the vault or they've got this on film.

Yeah but aren't we pretty sure Goodell wouldn't ever truly watch this tape?

 

[cstu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FAT_pRqo3w

compmanio36

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Still waiting for the proof that the Pats let air out of the balls AFTER they were ok'd for play. I am already hearing there are ways to get balls to lose PSI by throwing them in dryers, inflating them with hot air etc. I believe this is what happened.

GL proving that the Pats did anything wrong. I'm not saying they aren't responsible for the low PSI but if they did nothing to them after the initial inspection I don't see them getting caught. Was it gamesmanship, cheating or whatever you want to call it? Yes. Can they be proved of wrong doing for it, not likely. We all know OJ was guilty too but if you can't prove it what difference does it make. Like I said let's slow our roll here and see how this plays out. Just because a lot of teams/fans and owners are upset doesn't mean they will get convicted.

Again, the rest of the planet is on board with the fact that the Patriots are not going to trial. If Goodell thinks the Pats are full of ####, they'll be punished. You can stomp your feet about "proof" and "convictions" all you want. Irrelevant.

So you think Kraft and BB will just accept the punishment and move on even though there is no evidence against them doing anything wrong? Not happening. If they have proof there will be sanctions. If they don't and the only proof is the balls changed psi somehow Goodell has no grounds for discipline.Name me one time a team has been disciplined without concrete proof of wrong doing? We might as well wait and see what the evidence is. At this point evidence of wrong doing has not been released. That could change and then all bets are off. If this is all they have there will be no punishment and one would not be warranted.

Roethlisberger? Disciplined for being a doosh... Never mind I retract that... Plenty of evidence of him being a doosh

 

[Riversco]

I think Belichick will get banned for life from the Hall. Maybe over this. Maybe over the next thing that happens. But I think its coming.

 

[Jercules]

I think Belichick will get banned for life from the Hall. Maybe over this. Maybe over the next thing that happens. But I think its coming.

Don't you think he'll get deported too? I suspect what you think matters less and less to people.

Amazes me how Patriots fans think their team cheating is like no big deal

Simple people are amazed by all sorts of things (look, a rainbow!)

If you think stealing signals (legal) with a camcorder on the sidelines (not legal), or slightly under-inflated footballs makes a massive difference in the outcome of games (claims even their 'cheated upon' opponents adamantly refuse to make), you are, what I like to call, wrong.

 

[Run It Up]

At this point I'm convinced it's Irsay just being a mudslinger, trying to drag the Pats through the mud.

Expecting the NFL to come out and say no one did anything but are dragging their feet to avoid any claims of whitewashing this.

 

[Jercules]

I think Belichick will get banned for life from the Hall. Maybe over this. Maybe over the next thing that happens. But I think its coming.

Don't you think he'll get deported too? I suspect what you think matters less and less to people.

Amazes me how Patriots fans think their team cheating is like no big deal

Simple people are amazed by all sorts of things (look, a rainbow!)

If you think stealing signals (legal) with a camcorder on the sidelines (not legal), or slightly under-inflated footballs makes a massive difference in the outcome of games (claims even their 'cheated upon' opponents adamantly refuse to make), you are, what I like to call, wrong.

It's sure that your beloved Pats are in the habit of doing illegal things because they don't get any benefit out of it. Cheating just because it's fun!

They get a little benefit, just like the Seahawks got a little benefit out of having star defenders take PEDs. But enough benefit that clowns can pretend their achievements are 'stained', that their SB wins need 'asterisks' (notice how I spelled that correctly, which is more than you can get from most Hatriots), and blah blah blah.

Why don't we all just admit we've had some good fun killing time until the Super Bowl?

(BTW, to you pats fans out there... don't you think this will create a 2007 'spygate' scenario, when they used that chip on their shoulder to destroy people? I wouldn't want to be a Seahawk next week)

 

[devouredbychaos]

Amazes me how Patriots fans think their team cheating is like no big deal

Says the guy who's a Seahawks fan.. Half your team cheated as well as your coach, Cheat Carrol. Kinda hard to talk about another team cheating when yours has done the same.

And if the Patriots really were cheating, then why can't you or anyone else show us some concrete proof?

 

[devouredbychaos]

I think Belichick will get banned for life from the Hall. Maybe over this. Maybe over the next thing that happens. But I think its coming.

Don't you think he'll get deported too? I suspect what you think matters less and less to people.

Amazes me how Patriots fans think their team cheating is like no big deal

Simple people are amazed by all sorts of things (look, a rainbow!)

If you think stealing signals (legal) with a camcorder on the sidelines (not legal), or slightly under-inflated footballs makes a massive difference in the outcome of games (claims even their 'cheated upon' opponents adamantly refuse to make), you are, what I like to call, wrong.

It's sure that your beloved Seahawks are in the habit of doing illegal things because they don't get any benefit out of it. Dropping PEDs like they're skittles! Cheating just because it's fun!

Fixed it for you

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Belichick press conference at 9:30am EST

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Belichick press conference at 9:30am EST

"We're on to Seattle."

 

[KellysHeroes]

I Didnt understand the rules

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Goodell's NFL is out of control.

By which I mean Goodelll is out of control.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/22/win-lose-patriots-have-sacrificed-their-legacy/XIYx6wws1NpEn1h82kMtwO/story.html

 

[The Great Snook]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/22/win-lose-patriots-have-sacrificed-their-legacy/XIYx6wws1NpEn1h82kMtwO/story.html

Shaughnessy is a hack. People in Boston have been trying to figure out for years who hates the Patriots more, him or Borges.

 

[Bossman]

The 'natural pressure change' argument is easy to explore. The formula is simple:

P1/T1 = P2/T2.

Lets take the very outer temperature limits of plausibility, say it was 75d F when they filled them, and 33dF when they tested (you have to change F to Kelvin to work this formula).

12.5PSI / 297K = X / 274K

Solve for X = 11.5 PSI

So even if the temp dropped farther than we know it dropped, at most you would lose 1 pound per square inch of pressure.

In order to lose 2PSI, the temperature the balls were filled at would have had to have been 127d F.

Apparently not that easy as we are now 1400+ posts in and people are still calculating this wrong. The equation is P1/T1 = P2/T2 rearrange the equation to solve for T2 so we get T2 = P2/P1*T1. All units of measure MUST be measured in absolute . For pressure you need to add the atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) to the pressure inside the ball. The temps need to be in absolute also so either in Kelvin (C + 273) or Rankine (F + 459).

So your example to find a 2 psi drop works out to:

P1 = 12.5 + 14.7 = 27.2

P2 = 10.5 + 14.7 = 25.2

T1 = 75 + 459 = 534

T2 = (25.2/27.2) * 534 = 494 degrees rankine subtract 459 to convert back to F = 35

So the change in temperature is 75 - 35 = 40 degrees for a 2 psi drop in pressure in the ball.

Its not just posters getting this wrong its actual people in the media putting out this foolishness. Felger and Mazz on 98.5 were talking about an 87 degree temperature swing required to get the 2 psi change in the ball.

atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) can change depending on the weather, no? Foxboro went from cold and dry to wet and foggy that day.

.

Also, if the Patriots (Brady) wanted a softer ball, the easiest way would be to inflate the balls with hot air at time of inspection.

They meet the minimum psi then quickly lose psi after cooling off outside. Not cheating.

 

[Tanner9919]

The 'natural pressure change' argument is easy to explore. The formula is simple:

P1/T1 = P2/T2.

Lets take the very outer temperature limits of plausibility, say it was 75d F when they filled them, and 33dF when they tested (you have to change F to Kelvin to work this formula).

12.5PSI / 297K = X / 274K

Solve for X = 11.5 PSI

So even if the temp dropped farther than we know it dropped, at most you would lose 1 pound per square inch of pressure.

In order to lose 2PSI, the temperature the balls were filled at would have had to have been 127d F.

Apparently not that easy as we are now 1400+ posts in and people are still calculating this wrong. The equation is P1/T1 = P2/T2 rearrange the equation to solve for T2 so we get T2 = P2/P1*T1. All units of measure MUST be measured in absolute . For pressure you need to add the atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) to the pressure inside the ball. The temps need to be in absolute also so either in Kelvin (C + 273) or Rankine (F + 459).

So your example to find a 2 psi drop works out to:

P1 = 12.5 + 14.7 = 27.2

P2 = 10.5 + 14.7 = 25.2

T1 = 75 + 459 = 534

T2 = (25.2/27.2) * 534 = 494 degrees rankine subtract 459 to convert back to F = 35

So the change in temperature is 75 - 35 = 40 degrees for a 2 psi drop in pressure in the ball.

Its not just posters getting this wrong its actual people in the media putting out this foolishness. Felger and Mazz on 98.5 were talking about an 87 degree temperature swing required to get the 2 psi change in the ball.

atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi) can change depending on the weather, no? Foxboro went from cold and dry to wet and foggy that day.

.

Also, if the Patriots (Brady) wanted a softer ball, the easiest way would be to inflate the balls with hot air at time of inspection.

They meet the minimum psi then quickly lose psi after cooling off outside. Not cheating.

X

wrong.

it IS cheating.the colts balls were not off by any weight whatsoever...so how is it that just the Patriots balls , ALL 12 of them, were off by 2+ lbs,while the Colts balls were not off one bit?

answer: Bellichick and Brady cheated. where there's smoke there's fire.you backing the wrong people here.the NFL is goingto come down hard on BB,he'll get suspended for the SB, huge fine , loss of draft picks, and suspension for 4+ games next season.it's THAT serious.not a preseason game, not week 1, but the AFC Championship game..now the circus turns to the SB..he won't make the trip to Az..they'll let him get the team prepped till sunday,and annouce it then,that he's suspended.

THEY CHEATED.

what's so hard to understand here?

and if you think Brady didn't know about it,you're nuts.he was in on the gig.check his laugh at that radio show the other day,when asked about it.his obnoxious arrogant laughter tells it all.would love to have a body language expert sit in on that conversation..I'm sure there were telltale signs ..

also,if you think Bobby Kraft wasn't in on the gig, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya..

other owners are probably clamoring that the NFL come down hard on this guy, BB, who already was caught cheating,and now is again.

and those of you who don't think he should be suspended, they banned Sean Payton for a full year for Bountygate..and his DC was out for 2 years..thats for putting money on injuries made to opposing players.actually altering the game and its parts - deflating balls - is even WORSE...

the mdeia is going to make this SB a circus, it could affect sponsors, etc..the integrity of the game has been compromised,yet,again,by Bill Bellichick and Tommy Brady.

they're both FRAUDS, and this will only further cement the idea that BB doesn't sniff the HOF and that Brady gets an asterisk..

ladies and gentlemen, meet the new Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire..

 

[HellToupee]

Boston sports radio is crazy town today