Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[Tango]

addressing it head on right now, Belichick saying first he heard about it was Monday morning. coming out pretty strong he has never had any discussions about air the football with any coaches or players.

it would surprise me if Belichick was directly involved.

That doesn't mean his hands are clean. He has brought about a competitive culture where pushing the limit of legality is par for the course.

Just last week, when we were talking about the ineligible receiver business in the Ravens game, I was giving the Patriots credit for pushing the envelope and finding new loopholes to exploit...that's what they do, that's what makes them great. I believe that sometimes they push the envelope too far. That's what they did with spy gate, that's what they (allegedly) did here.

My guess - some equipment manager found out that Brady preferred the ball to be slightly underinflated, especially in inclement weather. He took it upon himself to figure out how to circumvent either the rules, the inspection process, or the chain of custody of the game balls. I highly doubt that Brady told this guy, "I want you to set the balls to 10.5 PSI...no more, no less;", it's more along the lines of, "Hey Tom, how's this ball feel?" "Is this one better or worse?" Brady: "This ball feels perfect. Whatever you do, keep your balls just like this."

Makes sense, but I just cant get over that me and other noticed during that game that Justin Tucker's kickoffs were weirdly short. A lot more needs to happen to screw with the kicking balls, but the fact that even I noticed that while the game was happening makes it all the more suspicious.

The kicking balls weren't deflated.

You cannot say that definitively and I cant say that they were; no one tested them at that point.

It's news to me that apparently the Ravens alerted the Colts pre-game to this. Makes sense.

I dont get what you mean.

You laugh when you're proven wrong repeatedly? Odd...but ok, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Ignorance isn't an excuse...

Which is exactly why the officials should be taking the brunt of this IMO. It's a tough talk when they have to sit in front of their boss and explain why they dont know these balls were underinflated but a LBer does as soon as he touches it.

Except that LBer says he never noticed a difference and that he didn't know where that story came from.

I must have missed that-- Do you have a link?

 

[Anarchy99]

For those that missed the press conference, he had no knowledge of anything even the rules, he has no explanation as to what happened, in the future they will make sure there will be more air in the balls to start the game, he has told us everything he knows, and they are on to Seattle. If people want more information about individual football preferences, talk to Tom. Any questions on the investigation, talk to the league.

 

[rjv]

"BB is stating he was unaware of footballs being tampered with."

I call BULL####!!

To be fair, he never professed innocence during spygate.

True but a habitual offender gets no benefit of the doubt.

 

[belljr]

The 12th ball was for punting.

 

[Thorn]

Ignorance isn't an excuse...

Which is exactly why the officials should be taking the brunt of this IMO. It's a tough talk when they have to sit in front of their boss and explain why they dont know these balls were underinflated but a LBer does as soon as he touches it.

Except that LBer says he never noticed a difference and that he didn't know where that story came from.

haven't seen that story. link?

 

[Niles Standish]

Belichick's press conference sounds like he was told by the NFL what to say to avoid suspension.

That makes me think there must be some evidence of tampering after the refs inspection at this point.

And I say that as a Pats fan.

This stinks.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Tango]

Ignorance isn't an excuse...

Which is exactly why the officials should be taking the brunt of this IMO. It's a tough talk when they have to sit in front of their boss and explain why they dont know these balls were underinflated but a LBer does as soon as he touches it.

Except that LBer says he never noticed a difference and that he didn't know where that story came from.

haven't seen that story. link?

Jim Gray reported on Fox News a few minutes ago that the Colts were alerted to the deflated balls by the Ravens.

It was the first I heard of that wrinkle; until now I had only heard that the accusation originated with the intercepting Colts defender.

 

[omally]

For those that missed the press conference, he had no knowledge of anything even the rules, he has no explanation as to what happened, in the future they will make sure there will be more air in the balls to start the game, he has told us everything he knows, and they are on to Seattle. If people want more information about individual football preferences, talk to Tom. Any questions on the investigation, talk to the league.

BB knows the NFL rules inside and out.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The NFL won't allow this story to be fully addressed BEFORE the game. The second they do, then questions about suspending the team, the coach, etc all come fully into play. The Patriots will state their public line (We are working with the NFL) and the NFL will state they are talking to more people and will eventually state they should have the conclusion wrapped up post-Super Bowl.

no win for them. If they dont address this quickly, then it reeks of incompetence and them doing anything to protect their brand the week they are rolling out the big product.

Of course it is not a win to stall, but they do not have a winning play here. What they can't afford is people demanding a different team be in the game before the game is played.

I think this point of view is being overblown. Judging from Twitter and othr interviews I've seen this does not seem to even be on the table and the general consensus amongst players and coaches is that the better team won. Had this been a closer game or there was more of an outrage amongst NFL people I think this may be brought up but I dont see it being a major issue at all.

Would anyone really want to see the Colts get destroyed by Seattle?

 

[roman316]

It's at least plausible that Tom Brady acted alone

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Belichick's press conference sounds like he was told by the NFL what to say to avoid suspension.

That makes me think there must be some evidence of tampering after the refs inspection at this point.

And I say that as a Pats fan.

This stinks.

Hope I'm wrong.

not sure how you make that leap

 

[Niles Standish]

addressing it head on right now, Belichick saying first he heard about it was Monday morning. coming out pretty strong he has never had any discussions about air the football with any coaches or players.

it would surprise me if Belichick was directly involved.

That doesn't mean his hands are clean. He has brought about a competitive culture where pushing the limit of legality is par for the course.

Just last week, when we were talking about the ineligible receiver business in the Ravens game, I was giving the Patriots credit for pushing the envelope and finding new loopholes to exploit...that's what they do, that's what makes them great. I believe that sometimes they push the envelope too far. That's what they did with spy gate, that's what they (allegedly) did here.

My guess - some equipment manager found out that Brady preferred the ball to be slightly underinflated, especially in inclement weather. He took it upon himself to figure out how to circumvent either the rules, the inspection process, or the chain of custody of the game balls. I highly doubt that Brady told this guy, "I want you to set the balls to 10.5 PSI...no more, no less;", it's more along the lines of, "Hey Tom, how's this ball feel?" "Is this one better or worse?" Brady: "This ball feels perfect. Whatever you do, keep your balls just like this."

Makes sense, but I just cant get over that me and other noticed during that game that Justin Tucker's kickoffs were weirdly short. A lot more needs to happen to screw with the kicking balls, but the fact that even I noticed that while the game was happening makes it all the more suspicious.

The kicking balls weren't deflated.

You cannot say that definitively and I cant say that they were; no one tested them at that point.

It's news to me that apparently the Ravens alerted the Colts pre-game to this. Makes sense.

I dont get what you mean.

You laugh when you're proven wrong repeatedly? Odd...but ok, whatever floats your boat.

Koch's punts were longer than his season average. 3 Yards on average. 5 more than his career average. Plus special team balls are shared I believe so it seems sort of unlikely. This is with cold weather where I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) kicks should travel less distance.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

 

[Godsbrother]

For those that missed the press conference, he had no knowledge of anything even the rules, he has no explanation as to what happened, in the future they will make sure there will be more air in the balls to start the game, he has told us everything he knows, and they are on to Seattle. If people want more information about individual football preferences, talk to Tom. Any questions on the investigation, talk to the league.

BB knows the NFL rules inside and out.

Yeah that much we KNOW is BS.

 

[Niles Standish]

Belichick's press conference sounds like he was told by the NFL what to say to avoid suspension.

That makes me think there must be some evidence of tampering after the refs inspection at this point.

And I say that as a Pats fan.

This stinks.

Hope I'm wrong.

not sure how you make that leap

I've never heard Belichick throw a player or coach under the bus. Not even for spygate. And he's doing it to his star QB. He mentioned Brady by name in the press conference. Said ask him.

Why would he do that? I can't think of any situation other than to avoid a suspension. And with what we know now there's no real reason to even punish the Pats. If they give 10.5 lb balls to the refs and the refs ok them that's the refs fault IMO not the Pats. Which makes me believe there has to be something more than just underinflated balls.

 

[Courtjester]

The NFL won't allow this story to be fully addressed BEFORE the game. The second they do, then questions about suspending the team, the coach, etc all come fully into play. The Patriots will state their public line (We are working with the NFL) and the NFL will state they are talking to more people and will eventually state they should have the conclusion wrapped up post-Super Bowl.

no win for them. If they dont address this quickly, then it reeks of incompetence and them doing anything to protect their brand the week they are rolling out the big product.

Of course it is not a win to stall, but they do not have a winning play here. What they can't afford is people demanding a different team be in the game before the game is played.

people are already demanding that.

but no one expects the Patriots to be Dq'd without the league first weighing in on the allegations. As more time passes, it would be impossible to have a replacement team ready to play.

Ah, but the solution would be for the league to create a Super team from the Pro-Bowl players and let them play Seattle.

But seriously, as a lifelong Broncos fan, I dislike the Patriots as much as the next guy, but realistically if this is found to be true, then the franchise is fined (oohh that will show them) and they are docked a draft pick or two (big deal--NE doesn't build through high drafts picks and instead finds gems in the lower rounds or gets good FAs).

Unless they have direct proof BB authorized this, they aren't coming down on him.

However if I were a NE fan, I would be pissed at my team because if they win next weekend, it won't have a physical asterisk next to it, but for all intents and purposes it will because years from now when the game is talked about in the media it will be referred to as "New England won Super Bowl XLIX and of course you all will remember that was the year of Inflategate...." This whole thing is just stupid, it is like a straight A student cheating on a test that he would have aced.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

I agree, and now I have a sick feeling in my stomach that Tommyboy had some knowledge of it.........

 

[Run It Up]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

Atm its most likely that the Refs did approve them which completely absolves the Pats. But lets consider the most outlandish outcome.

 

[Thorn]

Ignorance isn't an excuse...

Which is exactly why the officials should be taking the brunt of this IMO. It's a tough talk when they have to sit in front of their boss and explain why they dont know these balls were underinflated but a LBer does as soon as he touches it.

Except that LBer says he never noticed a difference and that he didn't know where that story came from.

haven't seen that story. link?

Jim Gray reported on Fox News a few minutes ago that the Colts were alerted to the deflated balls by the Ravens.

It was the first I heard of that wrinkle; until now I had only heard that the accusation originated with the intercepting Colts defender.

That I have heard. I have not seen a story where D'Qwell Jackson affirmatively said he did NOT notice an issue after his interception and doesn't know where the story came from.

 

[Tango]

addressing it head on right now, Belichick saying first he heard about it was Monday morning. coming out pretty strong he has never had any discussions about air the football with any coaches or players.

it would surprise me if Belichick was directly involved.

That doesn't mean his hands are clean. He has brought about a competitive culture where pushing the limit of legality is par for the course.

Just last week, when we were talking about the ineligible receiver business in the Ravens game, I was giving the Patriots credit for pushing the envelope and finding new loopholes to exploit...that's what they do, that's what makes them great. I believe that sometimes they push the envelope too far. That's what they did with spy gate, that's what they (allegedly) did here.

My guess - some equipment manager found out that Brady preferred the ball to be slightly underinflated, especially in inclement weather. He took it upon himself to figure out how to circumvent either the rules, the inspection process, or the chain of custody of the game balls. I highly doubt that Brady told this guy, "I want you to set the balls to 10.5 PSI...no more, no less;", it's more along the lines of, "Hey Tom, how's this ball feel?" "Is this one better or worse?" Brady: "This ball feels perfect. Whatever you do, keep your balls just like this."

Makes sense, but I just cant get over that me and other noticed during that game that Justin Tucker's kickoffs were weirdly short. A lot more needs to happen to screw with the kicking balls, but the fact that even I noticed that while the game was happening makes it all the more suspicious.

The kicking balls weren't deflated.

You cannot say that definitively and I cant say that they were; no one tested them at that point.

It's news to me that apparently the Ravens alerted the Colts pre-game to this. Makes sense.

I dont get what you mean.

You laugh when you're proven wrong repeatedly? Odd...but ok, whatever floats your boat.

Koch's punts were longer than his season average. 3 Yards on average. 5 more than his career average. Plus special team balls are shared I believe so it seems sort of unlikely. This is with cold weather where I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) kicks should travel less distance.

True about Koch, not true about Tucker.

In any event, if Jim Gray is correct and the Ravens were the ones who alerted/instructed the Colts to do this...then it came from somewhere on the Ravens side.

I'd guess Tucker, especially given Tucker's weird, Clintonian-styled denials on the whole issue.

 

[KarmaPolice]

"BB is stating he was unaware of footballs being tampered with."

I call BULL####!!

Good gawd man. How many miniscule details of the going ons of the teams to you expect the head coaches to personally keep track of? You really think on game day the head of the team would bother being worried about what is going on with the equipment? They hire other coaches, equipment people, etc. to take care of that crap. Isn't this akin to the president of the company you for being expected to know the day to day going ons of your office?

 

[Premier]

Man he just dumped all of this on Brady.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

I agree, and now I have a sick feeling in my stomach that Tommyboy had some knowledge of it.........

I don't think so. He laughed and said he doesn't want to talk about ridiculous things like that when he was asked about it. Brady wouldn't lie.

 

[Old Smiley]

Here's my question: After the teams select their dozen balls and submit them. How rigorous is the inspection? Do the officials stick a meter in every ball every game? I can't find that info in any reporting. Do they put a meter on them or do they just look them over and give them a squeeze?

Surely that's really important.

 

[stbugs]

Ignorance isn't an excuse...

Which is exactly why the officials should be taking the brunt of this IMO. It's a tough talk when they have to sit in front of their boss and explain why they dont know these balls were underinflated but a LBer does as soon as he touches it.

Except that LBer says he never noticed a difference and that he didn't know where that story came from.

haven't seen that story. link?

It was posted in here earlier. Honestly, I can't keep up and there are so many rumors/news stories that it is hard to keep up with the truth.

I have seen:

1. It all started with Jackson's INT.

2. Jackson said he didn't alert anyone.

3. The Raven tipped off the Colts.

4. The NFL already planned to inspect the balls at halftime (did they actually do the pre-game?).

5. Harbaugh said he didn't noticed anything about deflation.

6. The Colts knew about it during the regular season game and alerted officials before the game.

This is just getting ridiculous at this point. If the balls were inflated at half-time, NE beat the Colts 28-0 after half time.

IMHO, they have rules now where balls are measured pre-game and each team brings their own offensive balls (kicking balls are separate), so they know each team is going to make the balls as their QB wants them. They measured them and reset them at half-time.

The only thing that would warrant an action is if the balls were measured pre-game and the Patriots tampered with them. If this was such a big deal to the Colts/NFL pre-game and they planned to do extra measurements, why the heck would anything like that be allowed to happen to the balls? Have an NFL official at the pre-game measurement and have them with the balls the whole time.

That said, #### the Colts. What a bunch of whiny douchebags. If they knew about this in the regular season why didn't the Colts make a stink of it back then instead of making this an issue after they got humiliated, I mean emasculated, in their biggest game since the SB? Whiny pansies had to leak it to a local reporter to turn the SB into a deflation fiasco. Bunch of pansies, got blown out 28-0 after half time when the balls were re-inflated.

 

[Old Smiley]

I mean Rogers says he pumps them over and sees if they get through, right?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

I agree, and now I have a sick feeling in my stomach that Tommyboy had some knowledge of it.........

Belichick set it up this morning talking about the low end range of the balls.

Brady's presser will be just as uneventful - "I like the footballs on the low end, so I tell them to be at 12.5 when they submit them to the refs for inspection. After that, it is out of my control. I am not a physicist, and couldn't tell you how they might end up lower after a period of time, etc.."

 

[Run It Up]

Here's my question: After the teams select their dozen balls and submit them. How rigorous is the inspection? Do the officials stick a meter in every ball every game? I can't find that info in any reporting. Do they put a meter on them or do they just look them over and give them a squeeze?

Surely that's really important.

From what I've read over the past two days, it varies wildly but rarely to the point that they actually get out pressure gauges and check the balls. Usually they check by hand.

 

[BroadwayG]

Outside of 'talk to Tom' and 'talk to the league' I'd guess everything is a lie.

 

[moondog]

Former longtime NFL referee Gerry Austin delivered the biggest haymaker, telling ESPN he was informed a halftime inspection Sunday showed all 12 footballs provided by the Colts were properly inflated — while all 12 balls supplied by the Patriots were not.

ESPN previously reported 11 of the 12 balls provided by the Patriots were at least 2 pounds per square inch (PSI) below the NFL’s minimum of 12.5, but Austin told the network Wednesday the 12th New England ball also was underinflated.

 

[biju]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

Isn't this Carroll's defense of USC sanctions, and one that is routinely slammed by everyone?

 

[KarmaPolice]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

That should be be the Pats stance. They submit the balls, and it is out of their hands at that point. Ask the league how rigorous the testing of the balls is to begin with.

 

[LuckyOne]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

That wouldn't negate The Patriots role. It would merely mean the Patriots were able to get the officials to participate.

 

[Anarchy99]

Here's my question: After the teams select their dozen balls and submit them. How rigorous is the inspection? Do the officials stick a meter in every ball every game? I can't find that info in any reporting. Do they put a meter on them or do they just look them over and give them a squeeze?

Surely that's really important.

That's part of the unknown at this point.

Per the rule, the refs are supposed to weigh the balls and use a pressure gauge to check the inflation. The home team is supposed to supply a pump and pressure gauge to be used for the footballs from both teams. If the refs find a ball out of range, they can either toss it or inflate it to the proper level.

From talk radio and talk tv, some refs have said weighing the balls rarely happens, and another one said checking the pressure can be sporadic. Another ref I heard said each game the balls are checked for pressure before each and every game bar none (preseason, regular season, post season).

I also heard that the NFL spot checks balls by randomly pulling them out of games and tests them for condition, inflation, etc. The NFL league guy I heard said they would normally pull a single game ball from each team when they do that.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

Isn't this Carroll's defense of USC sanctions, and one that is routinely slammed by everyone?

Sure, but I think the allegations that were swirling around Pete were a bit higher up the food chain than the psi of footballs. Maybe that would be more like bounty gate that surely had to involve people right under the HC?

 

[RUSF18]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

Atm its most likely that the Refs did approve them which completely absolves the Pats. But lets consider the most outlandish outcome.

Huh? Mortensen has already reported that the ref did approve them pre-game but they were found to be underinflated at halftime. How does that "completely absolve the Pats", much less absolve them even a bit?

 

[Niles Standish]

addressing it head on right now, Belichick saying first he heard about it was Monday morning. coming out pretty strong he has never had any discussions about air the football with any coaches or players.

it would surprise me if Belichick was directly involved.

That doesn't mean his hands are clean. He has brought about a competitive culture where pushing the limit of legality is par for the course.

Just last week, when we were talking about the ineligible receiver business in the Ravens game, I was giving the Patriots credit for pushing the envelope and finding new loopholes to exploit...that's what they do, that's what makes them great. I believe that sometimes they push the envelope too far. That's what they did with spy gate, that's what they (allegedly) did here.

My guess - some equipment manager found out that Brady preferred the ball to be slightly underinflated, especially in inclement weather. He took it upon himself to figure out how to circumvent either the rules, the inspection process, or the chain of custody of the game balls. I highly doubt that Brady told this guy, "I want you to set the balls to 10.5 PSI...no more, no less;", it's more along the lines of, "Hey Tom, how's this ball feel?" "Is this one better or worse?" Brady: "This ball feels perfect. Whatever you do, keep your balls just like this."

Makes sense, but I just cant get over that me and other noticed during that game that Justin Tucker's kickoffs were weirdly short. A lot more needs to happen to screw with the kicking balls, but the fact that even I noticed that while the game was happening makes it all the more suspicious.

The kicking balls weren't deflated.

You cannot say that definitively and I cant say that they were; no one tested them at that point.

It's news to me that apparently the Ravens alerted the Colts pre-game to this. Makes sense.

I dont get what you mean.

You laugh when you're proven wrong repeatedly? Odd...but ok, whatever floats your boat.

Koch's punts were longer than his season average. 3 Yards on average. 5 more than his career average. Plus special team balls are shared I believe so it seems sort of unlikely. This is with cold weather where I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) kicks should travel less distance.

True about Koch, not true about Tucker.

In any event, if Jim Gray is correct and the Ravens were the ones who alerted/instructed the Colts to do this...then it came from somewhere on the Ravens side.

I'd guess Tucker, especially given Tucker's weird, Clintonian-styled denials on the whole issue.

But it doesn't really hold up to any kind of reasoning.

The Kicking balls are the same. Did they magically just deflate balls that Tucker used but not the ones Koch used? Did Koch magically kick 5 yards on average longer than he does in his career in cold weather with deflated balls? Did the Pats use deflated balls to kick with too? Why that doesn't seem like an advantage? How did they get to the balls that the refs control?

I mean rationally this is not what happened. Unless Bill Belichick or Stephen Gostkowski is a wizard. Especially when realistically the coach isn't going to be in on the deflation he has no reason to. The specialist would. But why would Gostkowski want a deflated football?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Way to throw Brady under the bus, Bill.

you dont think that was completely calculated by the team?

As is Brady is watching that screaming "what the #### Bill!!??"

Or maybe he didn't know about it? I guess we could assume he's lying. But what if he was telling the truth?

I buy it. On Hasselbeck's podcast he was talking about how he was on 8 teams, and on none of them would a head coach or even offensive coach be involved in the balls or what they need to be at, etc.. it was the QB and the equipment staff to get it how they liked it. Do we expect every head coach to know every little detail about what it going on? They delegate and focus on the big things.

I agree, and now I have a sick feeling in my stomach that Tommyboy had some knowledge of it.........

I don't think so. He laughed and said he doesn't want to talk about ridiculous things like that when he was asked about it. Brady wouldn't lie.

This is fair. You can't take Brady's sarcastic dismissals in press conferences lightly. For example, remember when Brady laughed off Plaxico Burress' suggestion that the Pats would score 17 points in Super Bowl 42, and then they went out and only scored 14 even though 17 would have sent the game to OT? Now that's integrity. Guy would rather lose a Super Bowl than lie to the media.

 

[stbugs]

Here's my question: After the teams select their dozen balls and submit them. How rigorous is the inspection? Do the officials stick a meter in every ball every game? I can't find that info in any reporting. Do they put a meter on them or do they just look them over and give them a squeeze?

Surely that's really important.

That's part of the unknown at this point.

Per the rule, the refs are supposed to weigh the balls and use a pressure gauge to check the inflation. The home team is supposed to supply a pump and pressure gauge to be used for the footballs from both teams. If the refs find a ball out of range, they can either toss it or inflate it to the proper level.

From talk radio and talk tv, some refs have said weighing the balls rarely happens, and another one said checking the pressure can be sporadic. Another ref I heard said each game the balls are checked for pressure before each and every game bar none (preseason, regular season, post season).

I also heard that the NFL spot checks balls by randomly pulling them out of games and tests them for condition, inflation, etc. The NFL league guy I heard said they would normally pull a single game ball from each team when they do that.

Agreed, unless there is some proof that they were deflated after the inspections, then there is nothing else to discuss. If this is the NFL's issue, they tested ball 12 that wasn't as under-inflated as the others and didn't test the other 11, then that is the officials/NFL's fault. They inspected and re-inflated them at half time.

The last thing I want is the NFL bowing to the media attention of this and doing something stupid, like they often do.

 

[Run It Up]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

Atm its most likely that the Refs did approve them which completely absolves the Pats. But lets consider the most outlandish outcome.

Huh? Mortensen has already reported that the ref did approve them pre-game but they were found to be underinflated at halftime. How does that "completely absolve the Pats", much less absolve them even a bit?

Because if they were submitted underinflated (the infinitely more likely scenario) and the refs allowed them, then it is no longer on the Patriots. The suggestion that they actually deflated the balls after the inspection is literally a ####### joke. But is widely being accepted as what happened.

 

[Anarchy99]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

Atm its most likely that the Refs did approve them which completely absolves the Pats. But lets consider the most outlandish outcome.

Huh? Mortensen has already reported that the ref did approve them pre-game but they were found to be underinflated at halftime. How does that "completely absolve the Pats", much less absolve them even a bit?

The refs approving them before the game does not specifically mean the balls were weighed and the pressure was checked. Suppose the refs gave them a squeeze and an eye ball test and said they were fine?

I am not suggesting that that is what happened, but just saying the refs approved them doesn't mean they were thoroughly inspected.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

LMFAO at he didnt know the rule

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

deflation

Is this like George Costanza and "shrinkage"?

 

[Anarchy99]

Here's my question: After the teams select their dozen balls and submit them. How rigorous is the inspection? Do the officials stick a meter in every ball every game? I can't find that info in any reporting. Do they put a meter on them or do they just look them over and give them a squeeze?

Surely that's really important.

That's part of the unknown at this point.

Per the rule, the refs are supposed to weigh the balls and use a pressure gauge to check the inflation. The home team is supposed to supply a pump and pressure gauge to be used for the footballs from both teams. If the refs find a ball out of range, they can either toss it or inflate it to the proper level.

From talk radio and talk tv, some refs have said weighing the balls rarely happens, and another one said checking the pressure can be sporadic. Another ref I heard said each game the balls are checked for pressure before each and every game bar none (preseason, regular season, post season).

I also heard that the NFL spot checks balls by randomly pulling them out of games and tests them for condition, inflation, etc. The NFL league guy I heard said they would normally pull a single game ball from each team when they do that.

Agreed, unless there is some proof that they were deflated after the inspections, then there is nothing else to discuss. If this is the NFL's issue, they tested ball 12 that wasn't as under-inflated as the others and didn't test the other 11, then that is the officials/NFL's fault. They inspected and re-inflated them at half time.

The last thing I want is the NFL bowing to the media attention of this and doing something stupid, like they often do.

From what I heard, the 12 balls that the Pats submitted were not reinflated and reused for the second half. New England had to go get an entirely different bag of 12 alternates and the second half was played with those balls.

 

[moondog]

Here's how the NFL checks the footballs before a game ---

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-video-how-nfl-officials-check-game-ball-pressure/

 

[RUSF18]

To reiterate, I do think the Patriot's are probably guilty of something but for discussion, what happens if it comes out the refs approved under-inflated footballs or didn't correctly check them? It's easy to point to the Patriot's lack of credibility in situations like these but it's also not like the NFL has a ton of credibility.

Atm its most likely that the Refs did approve them which completely absolves the Pats. But lets consider the most outlandish outcome.

Huh? Mortensen has already reported that the ref did approve them pre-game but they were found to be underinflated at halftime. How does that "completely absolve the Pats", much less absolve them even a bit?

The refs approving them before the game does not specifically mean the balls were weighed and the pressure was checked. Suppose the refs gave them a squeeze and an eye ball test and said they were fine?

I am not suggesting that that is what happened, but just saying the refs approved them doesn't mean they were thoroughly inspected.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

"League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team."

Squeezing/eyeballing would be "improperly" inspecting them, no?

If you don't trust the source, that's fine...but it's what he's reporting.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Former longtime NFL referee Gerry Austin delivered the biggest haymaker, telling ESPN he was informed a halftime inspection Sunday showed all 12 footballs provided by the Colts were properly inflated — while all 12 balls supplied by the Patriots were not.

ESPN previously reported 11 of the 12 balls provided by the Patriots were at least 2 pounds per square inch (PSI) below the NFL’s minimum of 12.5, but Austin told the network Wednesday the 12th New England ball also was underinflated.

that would be better news from a Patriots perspective

 

[Freelove]

Who denied him this knowledge?