Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[netnalp]

Yeah Im a Pats fan

This pisses me off. If they conclude tampering with the balls, then it is embarrassing.

And to R-action, Im picking a second team and giving you another response so you can pad you posts. So I now like the Giants too. (Pats/Giants vs Jets/Giants, we own you)

and as a Giants fan I also discredit any SB with LT in it as he was a known coke fiend and that was banned league wide and illegal nationally.

Carry on troll, but hey my team deserves it.

I defense of LT, he readily has admitted to doing a lot, a lot of drugs. But has always said he never did them the night before or on gamedays.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Comes down to "how much cheating is worth some type of penalty! " a little cheating is Ok?

 

[Franknbeans]

Yeah Im a Pats fan

This pisses me off. If they conclude tampering with the balls, then it is embarrassing.

And to R-action, Im picking a second team and giving you another response so you can pad you posts. So I now like the Giants too. (Pats/Giants vs Jets/Giants, we own you)

and as a Giants fan I also discredit any SB with LT in it as he was a known coke fiend and that was banned league wide and illegal nationally.

Carry on troll, but hey my team deserves it.

I think this is the proper response. If I were a Pats fan, I would be livid if it turns out the team did this purposely to gain some sort of advantage, no matter how inconsequential it was. I mean, if they are secure in their belief that they are the best team in the league and have the best coach in the league, play the opponent straight up and kick their ###. No need to introduce any inkling of impropriety, especially twice. What should be another glorious achievement by their franchise will now forever be looked at with suspicion.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

A question. Do the calls go pretty hard against the Pats in the Superbowl to make sure they don't win because of scandal? I mean assuming it's a close game? The Pats might get

distracted enough over the next couple weeks that we don't have a close game anyway.

Typically not a good idea to react to an integrity scandal by creating another integrity scandal.

Also , I would think there is a far greater chance this controversy works in the Pats favor than being a distraction. It helps create an us against the world mentality and they circle the wagons and play with a giant chip on their shoulder.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So, if true, this is no big deal to any Pats fans? What kind of cheating would not be acceptable?

Honestly, I'm now very concerned as a Pats fan. And a football fan. If this is proven to be the work of the Patriots then I'd have no trouble with the NFL throwing the book at them. To the point where I'd want Belichik to be canned.But let's see the evidence first. Hopefully they measured the pressure on the Colts' footballs at the same exact time so we have a concrete comparison. I'm hearing it is possible for all the balls to have deflated to tis level purely due to the change in temp / air pressure. We'll see. Can't for the life of me imagine the Pats risking so much for so little.

Can you imagine a Head Coach leaving his starting QB in a 45-7 game late in the 4th quarter and still throwing the ball deep?

I don't say this having any issue with "running up the score". I say this because it shows arrogance where one thinks he can get away with whatever he wants. After a deep throw, Brady got hit high by one defenders and at the knees by another defender and went down hard. Can you imagine the genius starting a rookie backup QB in the Super Bowl?

I'm sure the arrogance goes a long way towards making him a winner. There's no denying he's one of the greatest, if not the greatest coaches of all time. But he has created a culture where he thinks he's above the law (rules).

As I've said consistently throughout this thread, if the Patriots did do this, it obviously had no impact on the outcome, but it once again stains the reputation of what would otherwise be a GREAT organization. Why pull petty crap like this? It's bizarre.

 

[Workhorse]

Lots of interesting and valid questions raised by Florio: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/many-questions-linger-regarding-deflategate/

 

[Apple Jack]

A habitual drug user insisting they never used at work? Good one.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

My question is ....if it helps the QB why not let them deflate the balls by a pound or 2 ...who cares ? Who decided the ball has to be 12 - 13 lbs in the first place ? Who came up with that weight? Seems some QB`s like a ball more inflated and some less ....its not hurting anyone .

I agree with this - seems like a silly rule in the first place. The league should either not care or just use one set of balls for both teams. With that said, since it is a rule though, it needs to be followed. That's the way society works.

 

[Billy Bats]

Maybe BB didn't know anything about it and Brady had them deflated to his liking on his own. Suspend Brady!!!

 

[netnalp]

Maybe BB didn't know anything about it and Brady had them deflated to his liking on his own. Suspend Brady!!!

probably won't be able to determine who did it or who gave the orders to do so. I think they'll just punish the entire organization.

 

[shader]

Lots of interesting and valid questions raised by Florio: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/many-questions-linger-regarding-deflategate/

That's actually a good article, words I rarely use when describing a Florio article.

 

[shader]

The NFL has already blown this, as usual, by taking so long to respond or come up with a gameplan. They've got to move quicker and react better in this new world of media.

 

[mr roboto]

So a football is supposed to be 12.5 to 13.5 PSI. The Pats balls were found to be 2PSI low. So they were 10.5 PSI. That sounds like a pretty significant difference. They would be 84% as full as the least inflated football allowed. And 77% as full as a fully inflated (as much as allowed) football.

That seems like you could squeeze the damn thing and it wouldn't even hold its shape.

I'm not doubting they were underinflated. My question is why would Brady want a football so low, you'd imagine it wouldn't float anything like a properly inflated football. I'm not a science guy, am I looking at the PSI wrong? Or are these really something like 3/4 filled with air and 1/4 not holding their shape?

They will still hold their shape fine. Buy a football and inflate it to 10.5 psi. It's just a smidge soft, but it is far easier to grip

Plus NE passing game is a short passing game where you don't put a ton of air under your passes. Especially in the rain.And they would be easier to catch in the rain. Easier to spin, catch, hold onto. Harder to throw far, less bouncy.

 

[netnalp]

Goodell will claim that they have not received the video of the game.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

The NFL has already blown this, as usual, by taking so long to respond or come up with a gameplan. They've got to move quicker and react better in this new world of media.

I don't think so, to me the key date is the NFL has to conclude their investigation and provide a statement (along with any fines if wrong doing is determined by the Pats) prior to the teams landing in AZ for the SuperBowl this weekend. My guess is they will wrap this up and report to the media on Friday.

Total guess here but if the 11 of 12 being under inflated is true, my theory would be that the Pats knew Walt Coleman typically only tests one ball instead of the 12 required. They gave him a fully inflated one to test and had all the others slightly under.

 

[Godsbrother]

So now they're saying the balls were checked at halftime and found to be under inflated. They either inflated them to 12.5 or gave them new ones to begin the 2nd half. And what halhappened in that 2nd half? The Patriots crushed the Colts with legal game balls.

I don't think anyone is suggesting the Colts lost because of under inflated balls. The question is if the Patriots intentionally broke the rules.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Should have disqualified them at halftime and embarrassed them in front of the entire world.

As it stands now.... The Pats will get away with yet another shady violation and if they win the Super Bowl, it will all be worth it again and won't stop them from cheating again in the future.

 

[Godsbrother]

The NFL has already blown this, as usual, by taking so long to respond or come up with a gameplan. They've got to move quicker and react better in this new world of media.

I don't think so, to me the key date is the NFL has to conclude their investigation and provide a statement (along with any fines if wrong doing is determined by the Pats) prior to the teams landing in AZ for the SuperBowl this weekend. My guess is they will wrap this up and report to the media on Friday.

Total guess here but if the 11 of 12 being under inflated is true, my theory would be that the Pats knew Walt Coleman typically only tests one ball instead of the 12 required. They gave him a fully inflated one to test and had all the others slightly under.

Very possible

 

[netnalp]

League should have a rep create a video showing what the handling protocols for footballs is.

 

[Reaper]

So, if true, this is no big deal to any Pats fans? What kind of cheating would not be acceptable?

Honestly, I'm now very concerned as a Pats fan. And a football fan. If this is proven to be the work of the Patriots then I'd have no trouble with the NFL throwing the book at them. To the point where I'd want Belichik to be canned.But let's see the evidence first. Hopefully they measured the pressure on the Colts' footballs at the same exact time so we have a concrete comparison. I'm hearing it is possible for all the balls to have deflated to tis level purely due to the change in temp / air pressure. We'll see. Can't for the life of me imagine the Pats risking so much for so little.

Can you imagine a Head Coach leaving his starting QB in a 45-7 game late in the 4th quarter and still throwing the ball deep?

I don't say this having any issue with "running up the score". I say this because it shows arrogance where one thinks he can get away with whatever he wants. After a deep throw, Brady got hit high by one defenders and at the knees by another defender and went down hard. Can you imagine the genius starting a rookie backup QB in the Super Bowl?

I'm sure the arrogance goes a long way towards making him a winner. There's no denying he's one of the greatest, if not the greatest coaches of all time. But he has created a culture where he thinks he's above the law (rules).

As I've said consistently throughout this thread, if the Patriots did do this, it obviously had no impact on the outcome, but it once again stains the reputation of what would otherwise be a GREAT organization. Why pull petty crap like this? It's bizarre.

My theory is he runs up the score when he can just in case they find one of his cheating ways he can have his cronies spread the word that it couldn't possibly have much of an effect on such a Blowout game....

 

[T with T]

Belicheat should be banned for life and and all his super bowl rings eliminated ***

 

[LuckyOne]

Total guess here but if the 11 of 12 being under inflated is true, my theory would be that the Pats knew Walt Coleman typically only tests one ball instead of the 12 required. They gave him a fully inflated one to test and had all the others slightly under.

That seems like a damn good guess. That would be too big a coincidence for it to be a coincidence.

 

[T with T]

Should have disqualified them at halftime and embarrassed them in front of the entire world.

As it stands now.... The Pats will get away with yet another shady violation and if they win the Super Bowl, it will all be worth it again and won't stop them from cheating again in the future.

I think NFL punishes them and SEA destroys them like they did Den. This is eerily similar to the SB last year. Ne and Den are mirror image teams except denver had the higher power offense as they were the best in HISTORY last year in points per game.

 

[T with T]

pats are always shady, slobby, cheaters who probably plant stuff in team lockers or turn on only cold water for visitors, plant spiders and #### roaches in players underwear... Very dirty organization.......... I wouldn't put anything past these slimeballs.

 

[shader]

Should have disqualified them at halftime and embarrassed them in front of the entire world.

As it stands now.... The Pats will get away with yet another shady violation and if they win the Super Bowl, it will all be worth it again and won't stop them from cheating again in the future.

Dude you are seriously over-reacting.

It's PSI, it's not an exact science. Also, if the NFL doesn't test all the balls (although I haven't seen anything conclusive on this) than it's obviously more of a guideline, not a rule.

Aaron Rodgers apparently tries to overinflate the balls. Tom Brady likes them underinflated, apparently, although we are guessing on that.

If the Pats are guilty of anything, it's trying to get balls to a certain level that Brady likes, but not something so drastic that the refs will discover. It's more of a what can you get away with thing, not a cheating thing.

Kind of like every NFL offensive lineman tries to "hold" without the refs seeing. Do what you can do to avoid getting caught by the refs.

If you get caught, the ball gets thrown out. But it's still a football.

 

[knowledge dropper]

Tom Brady is to the NFL what Gaylord Perry was to MLB.

 

[shader]

pats are always shady, slobby, cheaters who probably plant stuff in team lockers or turn on only cold water for visitors, plant spiders and #### roaches in players underwear... Very dirty organization.......... I wouldn't put anything past these slimeballs.

 

[LuckyOne]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

 

[Banger]

so the refs handled the balls what 60 times in the 1st half and didn't notice anything? every play multiple guys touch the ball and no one noticed anything? Maybe they were being paid by the Pats to keep their mouth shut and deflate gate is just the tip of the iceberg???

 

[Devine Intervention]

just waiting for those Pats fans so I can laugh... Patriots are a joke.

 

[[icon]]

EMBRACE THE HATE!

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

We don't know what happened but if it turns out that the ref failed to properly inspect all of the game balls than there is zero recourse for the league to punish the Pats.

 

[shader]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So now they're saying the balls were checked at halftime and found to be under inflated. They either inflated them to 12.5 or gave them new ones to begin the 2nd half. And what halhappened in that 2nd half? The Patriots crushed the Colts with legal game balls.

That the Patriots did not have to cheat to win was unknown at the time they chose to cheat, if in fact they did. I still don't know that they did, though the circumstantial evidence is not good. Still, unless they cooked the balls after the official weigh in, or found a way to rig the weigh in, I think we are still a ways away from assigning blame.

 

[Workhorse]

Deadspin chiming in as well: http://deadspin.com/the-patriots-ballghazi-scandal-cannot-be-overblown-enou-1680853191

 

[JIslander]

A question. Do the calls go pretty hard against the Pats in the Superbowl to make sure they don't win because of scandal? I mean assuming it's a close game? The Pats might get

distracted enough over the next couple weeks that we don't have a close game anyway.

Typically not a good idea to react to an integrity scandal by creating another integrity scandal.

Also , I would think there is a far greater chance this controversy works in the Pats favor than being a distraction. It helps create an us against the world mentality and they circle the wagons and play with a giant chip on their shoulder.

This is probably top reason I don't like the Pats --they've had a "chip on the shoulder" since 2007 (I guess Brady has since getting picked in 6th round). I mean really, "how dare we question the their greatness and validity?!!?" Stop fricken cheating!

 

[mr roboto]

Lol at 'If the system of policing sucks then the blame is on the system.' No. People shouldn't cheat. If the system of oversight is horrible the cheater is still guilty.

 

[Banger]

there's also rumors going around that the Pats used really long illegal spikes so they could get better traction in the bad weather...they lowered the temperature in the Colts lockerroom 10 degrees lower than the Pats lockerroom to make them uncomfortable and the hot water for the showers only went to 87 degrees....also, they made multiple prank calls to the Indy sideline during to distract them...dirty Pats.

 

[Devine Intervention]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

are you serious Clark?

I think it is pretty clear that it is breaking the rules.

 

[KarmaPolice]

So, if I am understanding this correctly:

1. Teams submit their 12 balls to the refs pre-game.

2. They inspect them, check the psi and inflate them to regulation if under.

3. The refs give them to the ball boys about 10 mins before the game.

4. During this game, something was said and the balls were inspected at halftime.

5. The Pats' balls were found to be underinflated at that time - 11 of the 12.

6. At that time, one would assume that the balls were reinflated to regulation.

- is there any footage, or somebody see them doing something on the sidelines with the balls - I would assume they can't take the balls back into the locker room.

- if it was a supposed advantage the game, they did better in the 2nd half when it would be assumed that the balls were at regulation (unless you think that they did the same thing again on the sideline)

- how would we ever know where the order to do this came from?

 

[the moops]

Comes down to "how much cheating is worth some type of penalty! " a little cheating is Ok?

Absolutely. You cheat to win. You get caught, you face the consequences. As Pats fans we should embrace this and use it as a big FU to everyone else who isn't trying hard enough.

 

[RUSF18]

so the refs handled the balls what 60 times in the 1st half and didn't notice anything? every play multiple guys touch the ball and no one noticed anything? Maybe they were being paid by the Pats to keep their mouth shut and deflate gate is just the tip of the iceberg???

The actual weight difference is negligible. The types of "handling" the refs do is a lot different than gripping a ball with a bunch of pressure and throwing it as hard as you can through the air.

 

[[icon]]

Shtick aside... Some interesting points here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/on-scale-of-1-10--it-s-11-for-patriots-in-deflate-gate-mess---070254658.html

Precisely two hours, 15 minutes prior to kickoff, all the footballs are checked in the referee locker room by the head ref, in this case Walt Anderson.

"The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications," the rulebook reads. "A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game."

You can seemingly rule out the idea of the Patriots providing a pump that would provide inaccurate readings (if this is even possible) because it would have presumably then deemed the Indianapolis' footballs as overinflated. You can also give up on the weather altering the pressure because it would have done the same to the Colts' footballs and this isn't a story.

During a game each team uses its own footballs. So the Colts had theirs and the Pats had theirs. Why this is done in football (it's same at the college level) is another question. Kicking balls come straight from the manufacturer. Why not all footballs?

Anyway, if if the refs did their job before the game, then somehow New England managed to deflate 11 of the 12 balls during the heat of the game, all on a playing surface surrounded by cameras. To pull this off via sideline attendants or equipment managers is challenging but some in football say, commonplace. It's also, especially for New England, mind-numbingly brazen, especially to this level with that many footballs.

....

It's still bizarre the refs didn't notice, or care. Two or three refs handle a football on each play. During Colts possessions the ball is inflated to one level and during New England possessions it's inflated to a different one? Wouldn't this seem obvious?

...

We don't yet know if there was an issue with the footballs in the second half, when Brady actually was better statistically and New England blew the game open.

Then, of course, there is this: Why the heck would the Patriots even bother?

They beat the tar out of the Colts on Sunday, 45-7. They beat the tar out of the Colts in November, 42-20. They beat the tar out of the Colts in last year's playoffs, 43-22.

The Patriots can pretty much beat the tar out of the Colts anytime they want. They rushed for 657 yards and 13 touchdowns in those games. They could carry a cannon ball around and win the game. The contests were in three different weather situations including inside Lucas Oil Stadium.

 

[flapgreen]

pats are always shady, slobby, cheaters who probably plant stuff in team lockers or turn on only cold water for visitors, plant spiders and #### roaches in players underwear... Very dirty organization.......... I wouldn't put anything past these slimeballs.

Pretty much

 

[Devine Intervention]

Comes down to "how much cheating is worth some type of penalty! " a little cheating is Ok?

Absolutely. You cheat to win. You get caught, you face the consequences.As Pats fans we should embrace this and use it as a big FU to everyone else who isn't trying hard enough.

For a league that is really pushing to be a role model for kids and change the way it represents itself that is a wonderful way to look at things. Kids, cheat your way through life until you get caught. Because that is what winning really is.

 

[flapgreen]

Should have disqualified them at halftime and embarrassed them in front of the entire world.

As it stands now.... The Pats will get away with yet another shady violation and if they win the Super Bowl, it will all be worth it again and won't stop them from cheating again in the future.

Dude you are seriously over-reacting.

It's PSI, it's not an exact science. Also, if the NFL doesn't test all the balls (although I haven't seen anything conclusive on this) than it's obviously more of a guideline, not a rule.

Aaron Rodgers apparently tries to overinflate the balls. Tom Brady likes them underinflated, apparently, although we are guessing on that.

If the Pats are guilty of anything, it's trying to get balls to a certain level that Brady likes, but not something so drastic that the refs will discover. It's more of a what can you get away with thing, not a cheating thing.

Kind of like every NFL offensive lineman tries to "hold" without the refs seeing. Do what you can do to avoid getting caught by the refs.

If you get caught, the ball gets thrown out. But it's still a football.

 

[Reaper]

there's also rumors going around that the Pats used really long illegal spikes so they could get better traction in the bad weather...they lowered the temperature in the Colts lockerroom 10 degrees lower than the Pats lockerroom to make them uncomfortable and the hot water for the showers only went to 87 degrees....also, they made multiple prank calls to the Indy sideline during to distract them...dirty Pats.

Jeez..... But, we should expect all of this by now.... Not too shocking.

 

[shader]

If they did it in this game, they probably did it in other games. Possibly the Ravens game they barely won. The blowout argument is weak. They violated the rules. It's a repeat offense by a team that is known to break the rules. What's more, there's clear intent based upon 11 being underinflated and one being properly inflated for inspection. If the NFL wants to curb cheating, they should make the penalty very steep to deter all 32 teams from skirting the rules.

Did they? What are the rules and the consequences? How did they break them? Are the rules broken, in your opinion, if a ball EVER goes outside the bounds of the NFL's psi requirements? How seriously does the NFL take these rules? There's a difference in guidelines and rules.

Read that pft article with an open mind. Take off your hater glasses and think about it.

are you serious Clark?

I think it is pretty clear that it is breaking the rules.

So is holding and pass interference.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Should have disqualified them at halftime and embarrassed them in front of the entire world.

As it stands now.... The Pats will get away with yet another shady violation and if they win the Super Bowl, it will all be worth it again and won't stop them from cheating again in the future.

Dude you are seriously over-reacting.

It's PSI, it's not an exact science. Also, if the NFL doesn't test all the balls (although I haven't seen anything conclusive on this) than it's obviously more of a guideline, not a rule.

Aaron Rodgers apparently tries to overinflate the balls. Tom Brady likes them underinflated, apparently, although we are guessing on that.

If the Pats are guilty of anything, it's trying to get balls to a certain level that Brady likes, but not something so drastic that the refs will discover. It's more of a what can you get away with thing, not a cheating thing.

Kind of like every NFL offensive lineman tries to "hold" without the refs seeing. Do what you can do to avoid getting caught by the refs.

If you get caught, the ball gets thrown out. But it's still a football.

Lets put the Aaron Rodgers thing to rest. Were he trying to get away with something he would not advertised it so that the league could closely monitor it. He was having some fun with the fans and the media.

 

[stbugs]

Lots of interesting and valid questions raised by Florio: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/many-questions-linger-regarding-deflategate/

That's actually a good article, words I rarely use when describing a Florio article.

It was, lots of good points, like if the balls were in the correct secure location, how much does the temperature affect them and if the Patriots know Brady doesn't like over inflated balls, do they try and submit them at the lowest pressure, thus being under-inflated in the cold during the game. I think of it as the wrestlers/boxers doing whatever they can do to make the weigh-in and then during the actual fight they are back above the threshold.

If the balls were measured by officials and then were under-inflated during the game, I see no issues at all. If they were tampered with after the measurement, then that is a problem.

Also, he has one other good point. The rules specifically have different balls for kicking at specific pressures because they know teams want to set their pressure the way the QBs like (Rodgers likes it over-inflated, Brady doesn't). Unless there was actual tampering after the "weigh-in" this is likely going on at every game by every team to set the balls exactly where the QB prefers.