Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[devouredbychaos]

No one has legitimate proof of anything,

I keep seeing posts where people say this or something similar, and I'm not sure if I didn't just somehow miss something. Let me spell out what I understand to be the case -- tell me where I'm going wrong.

Prior to the game, the Colts footballs and Patriots footballs were inspected by the officials and were found to be correctly inflated. At halftime, the Colts balls were still correctly inflated, but the Patriots balls were all or nearly all a couple of PSI low. Somebody let some air out of the NE balls, and it isn't credible to think that that somebody did so on his own, without the starting QB's approval.

What part of this is wrong or in any serious doubt, and why?

The NFL hasn't confirmed any of it, so why are we supposed to believe it's true? There's no legitimate truth in that statement. It's speculation.

 

[Bankerguy]

Over 2500 posts in this thread. Not sure why I feel the need to post my thoughts but here they are.

-I am not a Pats fan or hater.

-I think fans love to hate this team. Was the same for the Cowboys in the 90's.

-It's obvious to me that while the act of deflating a ball is a competitive advantage, it played no role in the Colts game. However, maybe in other games.

-I see no way that Bill is involved in any way shape or form.

-This is Brady/Ballboys/Equipment guys

-The risk ratio of advantage gained to potential penalty is beyond stupid.

-Perhaps I didn't see or hear the comments....but I noticed the Pats organization has never really said we are going to do our own internal investigation to find out what happened. It's been we will co operate with the league and deny any knowledge because it will be near impossible to prove. They know this.

-Based on the past of Spygate and now this will factor in the punishment. Bountygate did not deal with cheating and the league gave have huge penalties and then the Commish was seen as being light on the Rice case. This is going to get ugly imo.

However, the problem for the league is 2 fold. Obviously there is enough circumstantial evidence to prove some wrong doing, but the problem is who do you punish specifically and how much. They have to prove it beyond a doubt if they are going to suspend Brady. I do not see this happening.

Prediction:

Team fine - 1 million dollars

Team loses - 1rst and 2nd round picks

Brady fined - $50000-$100000

Hoody fined -$50000-$100000

Ball boys/equipment managers get fired.

 

[Old Smiley]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I really think that's how it really already works. That's why they don't put a gauge on the balls in the pre-game check. It looks like a football, it feels like a football, let's play football. Then the Colts tried to use the letter of the law to jack with the Pats and here we are.

You want a scandal? Put a meter on the IQ of sports media.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I really think that's how it really already works. That's why they don't put a gauge on the balls in the pre-game check. It looks like a football, it feels like a football, let's play football. Then the Colts tried to use the letter of the law to jack with the Pats and here we are.

You want a scandal? Put a meter on the IQ of sports media.

The NFL knows all this is going on - the refs touch the ball every single play. They knew about players and coaches betting and creating pools on hits , they knew about the Ray Rice video, they knew AP was led to believe he woudl be let off suspension, they knew about teams taping other teams, the problem occurs when the NFL's own complicity in these things is brought to light.

 

[skinsrule05]

I can't get over Brady's speech. This guy is lying through his teeth. Your telling me the equipment manager took it upon himself to deflate the balls??? Your telling me that Tom is taking it on good faith that the equipment manager is going to have the footballs the way he likes them WITHOUT Tom's input?? C'mon Pats fans, you can't be this shallow and naive.

That is my biggest problem with it. Too many people, ex players, ex QBs have come out to say there is no way Tom wouldn't have known. The cover up is always worse. And now I am wondering what else Tom has lied about.

I do pretty much believe belichek. The only reason I doubt him at all is because he has shown in the past to be a man of low integrity. But I don't think he would get involved in something so specific to the QBs preference.

 

[mbuehner]

Sean Payton got suspended for not knowing about bountygate and bountygate was not part of any competitive edge. There is no way BB and the Pats don't get the same or worse.

Besides Goodell stated that "ignorance is no excuse" so don't be shocked if Roger comes down hard on NE.

Payton flat out lied to Goodell, and there was legitimate proof. That's why he got suspended. Why would BB and Brady lie over something so miniscule? Why would they lie over "2 psis of air"? Nothing will happen to Brady or Belichick other than maybe a $25,000 fine. There's NO proof they did anything, and it's only the idiotic media and bitter fans like yourself that think they did something wrong. None of the coaches or players in the NFL think they did anything wrong, because it's common practice.

If it was so minuscule why were the balls messed with??

Maybe they weren't?

OMG your saying they weren't messed with?

Do you define underfilling the balls a bit and having the refs approve them 'messing' with them?

 

[rjv]

Sean Payton got suspended for not knowing about bountygate

Do you really think Sean Payton had no idea what his defensive coordinator was doing?

Here I can honestly believe that Belichick could give two ####s about game balls since there's so many other things he has to deal with on game days (and lets face it, maybe it gives them a small advantage, but how much of a difference could it really make?) - but I'm sure he would be attending offensive and defensive meetings with his coordinators.

I do think Brady is likely being a little less than honest, but I actually believe Bill here. If he was to get in trouble it would be more for fostering an atmosphere where this was acceptable.

Although I said I doubt the balls make a huge difference, in the ultimate outcome of the games, I do think all teams should be following the rules that are in place.

Let me rephrase, I know as well as a lot of others knew Payton knew what was going on. I was just paraphrasing on the issue. At the time Payton stated, just like BB is doing now, he didn't know but we all know he did.

 

[Workhorse]

Schefty was on Mike and Mike this morning and he basically said that if things remain the way they are as of now, with the NFL having no evidence that the Pats did anything and Belichick/Brady denying any wrongdoing plus some kind of logical explanation for the loss of PSI in the footballs, there is NOTHING that Goodell can do here.

Knowing how locked in Schefter is with the NFL, this thing seems to end with a whimper and not a bang.

So then I'll ask this question: When folks point to the huge penalty that the league levied against the Patriots for Spygate as proof that what they did was horrible and egregious cheating, what does the potential lack of league action against the Pats for this mean to you in terms of the seriousness (or lack thereof) of this? And before you go down the road to say that Spygate had proof and Ballghazi didn't: (a) that has never stopped Goodell from dropping the hammer in the past, and; (b) the league has direct proof of ball tampering by Minnesota earlier this year and Aaron Rodgers' admissions of overinflation and those are both going unpunished.

Short of any kind of new earth-shattering news, this "scandal" appears to be over. Might be time to move on, folks.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I can't get over Brady's speech. This guy is lying through his teeth. Your telling me the equipment manager took it upon himself to deflate the balls??? Your telling me that Tom is taking it on good faith that the equipment manager is going to have the footballs the way he likes them WITHOUT Tom's input?? C'mon Pats fans, you can't be this shallow and naive.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I really think that's how it really already works. That's why they don't put a gauge on the balls in the pre-game check. It looks like a football, it feels like a football, let's play football. Then the Colts tried to use the letter of the law to jack with the Pats and here we are.

You want a scandal? Put a meter on the IQ of sports media.

Why dont we just let them play with a K2? Some guys have smallish hands, and would prefer the grip they can get on a K2.

You have to have some standard of consistency for the piece of equipment that is involved in every single moment of every single play as the focal point of the game. To say otherwise is bordering on ridiculous. I like Ross Tucker, but disagree with him here. They provide a range for the PSI, and the balls should all fall into that range. You can go high in that range if you are Aaron Rodgers, or low if you are Brady - but stay within the range.

 

[[icon]]

Everyone in here got their game faces on again today for some more hard hitting analysis of speculative reporting and media-distorted rumor mongering?

Don't let us down, Jr Clouseaus... it's shaping up to be a slow Friday at the office.

 

[Old Smiley]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I really think that's how it really already works. That's why they don't put a gauge on the balls in the pre-game check. It looks like a football, it feels like a football, let's play football. Then the Colts tried to use the letter of the law to jack with the Pats and here we are.

You want a scandal? Put a meter on the IQ of sports media.

Why dont we just let them play with a K2? Some guys have smallish hands, and would prefer the grip they can get on a K2.

You have to have some standard of consistency for the piece of equipment that is involved in every single moment of every single play as the focal point of the game. To say otherwise is bordering on ridiculous. I like Ross Tucker, but disagree with him here. They provide a range for the PSI, and the balls should all fall into that range. You can go high in that range if you are Aaron Rodgers, or low if you are Brady - but stay within the range.

I imagine that's the change that will come out of this. Every ball will be metered in the pre-game check from now on. Not a big deal. Never was a big deal.

 

[mphtrilogy]

This scandal will not be over by a longshot... its just beginning with super bowl media week, when the NFL cannot control the questions...

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I think this is also the issue. The rule is dumb. Either make every team use balls supplied by the NFL or if you let them use their own balls let them do whatever they want (within reason) - what purpose does the allowable range even serve if both teams could apply whatever pressure they think is the best? If 10.5 was an advantage, both teams would go that low and who would know or care?

A "bad" rule doesn't give a team the right to disregard it of course, but the NFL should have downplayed this right from the start.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sean Payton got suspended for not knowing about bountygate and bountygate was not part of any competitive edge. There is no way BB and the Pats don't get the same or worse.

Besides Goodell stated that "ignorance is no excuse" so don't be shocked if Roger comes down hard on NE.

Not close to the same thing as far as what the head coach was likely to be involved in. Bountygate required high level coaches involvement and paying players. Payton also lied to Goodell.

This is an equipment issue, plain and simple. I get that the HC is paid the big bucks because they also have a responsibility for overseeing everything. I just think the picture that you guys seem to be painting of Bill twisting his mustache letting air out of footballs because he knows that is the only way he can win a game is completely stupid. Any reasonable person can't expect the HC to know what the psi of all the footballs are, if somebody's cleats are a few millimeters long, etc..

As a Pats fan, I believe what Bill said yesterday - he seems like a guy would care zip about the condition of the footballs, equipment, etc.. I will admit that Brady looked uncomfortable up there, but that is not proof of lying. IF something did happen, it has to be on the Brady, the equipment guy, the refs, or a combination of the three.

 

[Anarchy99]

Maybe the league is really not into pursuing this. If the powers that be understand that Qbs modify the ball to their liking and that the refs have been lax in inspecting the footballs, maybe they just don't really care. The media seems to want to drive this like it is Watergate and some fans want to castrate BB. But we have heard nothing other than the league would look into it.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sean Payton got suspended for not knowing about bountygate

Do you really think Sean Payton had no idea what his defensive coordinator was doing?

Here I can honestly believe that Belichick could give two ####s about game balls since there's so many other things he has to deal with on game days (and lets face it, maybe it gives them a small advantage, but how much of a difference could it really make?) - but I'm sure he would be attending offensive and defensive meetings with his coordinators.

I do think Brady is likely being a little less than honest, but I actually believe Bill here. If he was to get in trouble it would be more for fostering an atmosphere where this was acceptable.

Although I said I doubt the balls make a huge difference, in the ultimate outcome of the games, I do think all teams should be following the rules that are in place.

 

[Old Smiley]

"the NFL should have downplayed this right from the start"

Yup. But, naturally the very first leak to Mort had some unnamed flunkie saying the league was "dismayed" or some ####

 

[AngryPatriot]

Non issue, much like video taping other teams, which was common practice (they failed to stop- typical arrogance). Just beat down the Seahawks, let the haters hate.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The pattern of cheating has been long established. Only a fool or fanatic could not see that.

I don't want to rehash this whole ridiculous thread, but what pattern are you talking about? A pattern would require at least 2 and generally 3 incidents. What "cheating" episodes are you referring to except Spygate (which was really rule-breaking more than cheating)?

What does that even mean? They broke the rules to gain an unfair advantage. To me that is the definition of cheating. How do you define it?

He said that pattern has been LONG established. To most people a pattern means multiple infractions. They have had one a decade ago. This is going on, but the NFL hasn't done anything yet. What is being asked is why is one infraction a "pattern" of behavior? What exactly are you guys talking about?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Maybe the league is really not into pursuing this. If the powers that be understand that Qbs modify the ball to their liking and that the refs have been lax in inspecting the footballs, maybe they just don't really care.

Sure seems like that's the direction it's going.

 

[The General]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I really think that's how it really already works. That's why they don't put a gauge on the balls in the pre-game check.

Where did you see the bolded part? They refs are supposed to put a gauge in them to check this in the pre-game.

 

[biju]

I can't get over Brady's speech. This guy is lying through his teeth. Your telling me the equipment manager took it upon himself to deflate the balls??? Your telling me that Tom is taking it on good faith that the equipment manager is going to have the footballs the way he likes them WITHOUT Tom's input?? C'mon Pats fans, you can't be this shallow and naive.

You can't be that shallow and naive to base your allegations off of what Mortenson said. No one has legitimate proof of anything, yet you all are acting like it.

Well, there is definitive proof those balls were tampered with if (a) the balls were correctly calibrated and reviewed before the game, and (b) those same balls and the control balls (Indy's balls) were measured afterward and had a significant difference. Just because you can't pin it directly on someone or show proof of how it was done doesn't mean it didn't happen. And there is where I think Goodell's comment will make a difference in how this is handled.

I would even say that the longer the NFL waits on this the more severe it will be. The NFL doesn't really want this to be the storyline of the SB unless the penalty is so severe (or I suppose "so weak") that the penalty becomes the new story.

For me, anything that takes the light off Marshawn is fine with me.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

"the NFL should have downplayed this right from the start"

Yup. But, naturally the very first leak to Mort had some unnamed flunkie saying the league was "dismayed" or some ####

I think the NFL probably isn't all that upset with this "black-eye" or that the CBS evening news at 6:30 is leading with "Deflategate".

It's not like this will turn anyone away from the league - and it has brought them even more attention than the Super Bowl would normally get anyway.

 

[KellysHeroes]

A couple of things I'm not buying

#1 Brady and BB had no idea, that's BS; BB is the ultra control freak and I'm sure Brady knew that the balls felt different. There are retired QBs on NFL Live proving that an experienced hand can tell the difference.

#2 All teams are messing with the balls. Rodgers admitted it but if all the teams are doing it then why did all 12 of the Colts' pass the PSI test?

#3 The gauge used to pump the balls was off. It may sound plausible that the gauge used to pump the balls up was off by 2 PSI's but I can't believe that equipment need before an Title Game isn't PMI'd.

The Pat's are the most loved and hated team in football, if you love them then your looking a blind at this and continue to beat your chest about your team's success but the fact is they have been down this cheating road once before and its silly to hear Brady and BB believe in fair play; get out of here. You always going to be questioned now. Not only will they suffer the wrath of Goodell once the SB is over but now the rest of league will suffer from the restrictions placed on Football handling prior to the games.

 

[Workhorse]

Ross Tucker ‏@RossTuckerNFL 1m1 minute ago

If NFL let's QBs use their own altered balls why do they care about air pressure? Let Brady play with 11 PSI & Rodgers 15 PSI. Who cares?

I really think that's how it really already works. That's why they don't put a gauge on the balls in the pre-game check.

Where did you see the bolded part? They refs are supposed to put a gauge in them to check this in the pre-game.

That's the problem: According to an article I posted a while back that contained an interview with a former Bears ballboy, most of the time the officials just squeeze a few footballs and check things like the cover and the laces for issues. They apparently don't always check the pressure with a gauge prior to the game.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Maybe the league is really not into pursuing this. If the powers that be understand that Qbs modify the ball to their liking and that the refs have been lax in inspecting the footballs, maybe they just don't really care.

Sure seems like that's the direction it's going.

The league is clearly going to deal with it afterwards, I mean at 5pm Thursday they still hadn't contacted Tom Brady.... come on.

 

[the moops]

It still makes the most sense that Brady likes the balls a certain way, the ball boy pumps them up to that PSI, and then the officials either don't check or dont care.

This game they got word to check after the game started and to cover their asses they say they checked before the game and the balls are now low. And with the union behind them they do not have to account for any of their statements.

 

[Old Smiley]

#2 All teams are messing with the balls. Rodgers admitted it but if all the teams are doing it then why did all 12 of the Colts' pass the PSI test?

Because Luck likes them somewhere in the middle.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

Maybe the league is really not into pursuing this. If the powers that be understand that Qbs modify the ball to their liking and that the refs have been lax in inspecting the footballs, maybe they just don't really care. The media seems to want to drive this like it is Watergate and some fans want to castrate BB. But we have heard nothing other than the league would look into it.

The league definitely didn't want to address this issue. The NFL wanted more offense, so it went out of it's way to allow QBs to get as comfortable as possible with the footballs. No one ever cared about whether the ball was in the right PSI range before this incident. This was a whole movement ironically led by Peyton Manning when he was on the Colts. The NFL updated their rules to allow teams to doctor their footballs to the preferences of the QB.

Unfortunately this has gotten out of control because the NFL was too slow to react to this story.

 

[mbuehner]

#2 All teams are messing with the balls. Rodgers admitted it but if all the teams are doing it then why did all 12 of the Colts' pass the PSI test?

Because Luck likes them somewhere in the middle.

And because the Colts knew they were going to challenge the refs on the issue sometime during the game.

 

[Itchy Amos]

I'm an unabashed Patriots fan. Always have been, probably always will remain so. If its found that the Patriots tampered with the balls after they were tested, then the NFL ought to throw the book at them. Go ahead and hammer them. Be my guest.

More than anything else, this story proves just how ignorant the average American journalist is about basic science. The science has been outlined in this thread a few times. Its also here:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/21/how-the-patriots-could-have-cheated-without-letting-air-out-the-ball/Eocm5m29nIlh0HRBjFWsYO/story.html, summarized by a college physics professor. The NFL rules provide an objective that is simply unattainable in cold weather games. Even if you provided the officials with balls that were at the upper limit of 13.5 psi, all it would take is a drop of about 20 degrees to make those balls illegal. Even if the balls were originally tested outside, there've been many occasions where the temperature dropped more than 20 degrees over the 5 hour period that is contained between 2 hours before kickoff and the end of the game. Simply put, every single game that experienced a 20 degree drop in temperature from the time the balls were tested and the end of the game was played with a ball that did not meet the acceptable pressure range.

ESPN is trotting out that gas bag Mark Brunell to comment on this issue. He says that he always had his balls inflated to 13.0 psi and he could tell if it was 12.5 or 13.5 and he always played with 13.0. Basic physics shows that he simply doesn't know what he's talking about. He may have started the game with a pressure of 13.0, but unless he played every game of his career at 1 pm and in good weather conditions, there had to have been many games that his 13.0 psi footballs would have been below 12.0 psi by games end. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he just doesn't realize that the ball loses pressure in a lower temperature. I think its reasonable to interpret this as anecdotal proof that he was unable to tell the difference during game action between a legally inflated ball and one that was below the lower limit of 12.5 psi.

Once again, if the Patriots ordered the balls to be deflated after the official inspection, then they should be punished severely - regardless of whether or not other NFL teams engage in similar activities.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

A couple of things I'm not buying

#1 Brady and BB had no idea, that's BS; BB is the ultra control freak and I'm sure Brady knew that the balls felt different. There are retired QBs on NFL Live proving that an experienced hand can tell the difference.

#2 All teams are messing with the balls. Rodgers admitted it but if all the teams are doing it then why did all 12 of the Colts' pass the PSI test?

#3 The gauge used to pump the balls was off. It may sound plausible that the gauge used to pump the balls up was off by 2 PSI's but I can't believe that equipment need before an Title Game isn't PMI'd.

The Pat's are the most loved and hated team in football, if you love them then your looking a blind at this and continue to beat your chest about your team's success but the fact is they have been down this cheating road once before and its silly to hear Brady and BB believe in fair play; get out of here. You always going to be questioned now. Not only will they suffer the wrath of Goodell once the SB is over but now the rest of league will suffer from the restrictions placed on Football handling prior to the games.

It's not that all teams are 'messing with the balls'. I'm sure that teams just didn't worry much about the balls being perfectly inflated to between 12.5-13.5 PSI before this happened. I'm willing to bet the refs do a quick squeeze test before the game to check the balls, plus an eyeball and feel test to make sure they aren't coated with anything or otherwise too far from 'normal.'

Did the Pats actually have someone take air out of the balls after they were 'approved' by the refs? If you think they did, then I understand why you'd be upset. I'm sure that they did not do that, which is why this whole story seems absurd.

If someone actually did let the air out intentionally then I'm sure they would be caught on camera. Everything is filmed in the stadium. There's no way that you could get away with it once your under investigation.

 

[stbugs]

#2 All teams are messing with the balls. Rodgers admitted it but if all the teams are doing it then why did all 12 of the Colts' pass the PSI test?

Because Luck likes them somewhere in the middle.

And because the Colts knew they were going to challenge the refs on the issue sometime during the game.

Some of the "proof" people are coming up with is laughable. I agree with some of the posts above. The NFL changed the rules so that QBs could have balls the way they liked and this was basically a non-issue. Look at the video of officials checking balls. One ref says that the measurement is "close enough" and the other talks about the way kickers work balls and doesn't say that it is wrong to do that and these are the kicking balls that are supposed to be untouchable. The Colts whined because they kept getting kicked around and they had to complain to their mommy.

 

[Anarchy99]

And if the league was ALREADY monitoring the ball inflation because of other complaints, wouldn't they make every effort to make sure they had the footballs under surveillance at all times?

 

[Tool]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

 

[stbugs]

I'm an unabashed Patriots fan. Always have been, probably always will remain so. If its found that the Patriots tampered with the balls after they were tested, then the NFL ought to throw the book at them. Go ahead and hammer them. Be my guest.

More than anything else, this story proves just how ignorant the average American journalist is about basic science. The science has been outlined in this thread a few times. Its also here:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/21/how-the-patriots-could-have-cheated-without-letting-air-out-the-ball/Eocm5m29nIlh0HRBjFWsYO/story.html, summarized by a college physics professor. The NFL rules provide an objective that is simply unattainable in cold weather games. Even if you provided the officials with balls that were at the upper limit of 13.5 psi, all it would take is a drop of about 20 degrees to make those balls illegal. Even if the balls were originally tested outside, there've been many occasions where the temperature dropped more than 20 degrees over the 5 hour period that is contained between 2 hours before kickoff and the end of the game. Simply put, every single game that experienced a 20 degree drop in temperature from the time the balls were tested and the end of the game was played with a ball that did not meet the acceptable pressure range.

ESPN is trotting out that gas bag Mark Brunell to comment on this issue. He says that he always had his balls inflated to 13.0 psi and he could tell if it was 12.5 or 13.5 and he always played with 13.0. Basic physics shows that he simply doesn't know what he's talking about. He may have started the game with a pressure of 13.0, but unless he played every game of his career at 1 pm and in good weather conditions, there had to have been many games that his 13.0 psi footballs would have been below 12.0 psi by games end. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he just doesn't realize that the ball loses pressure in a lower temperature. I think its reasonable to interpret this as anecdotal proof that he was unable to tell the difference during game action between a legally inflated ball and one that was below the lower limit of 12.5 psi.

Once again, if the Patriots ordered the balls to be deflated after the official inspection, then they should be punished severely - regardless of whether or not other NFL teams engage in similar activities.

Brunnell has been quoted in here a bunch and I agree that he is pulled a Skip Bayless. He is trying to get his name out there on this issue. I didn't even realize he was a commentator. A post above from Theismann has him saying he couldn't notice the difference. The ESPN science report said that the velocity decrease was equivalent to the tip of the finger in terms of difference. They said the difference in actual weight in the ball was the same as a dollar bill. They also said that the rain on the ball was 10x the weight difference and that the unbelievable gripping ability was an improvement of 1.5%.

This is the biggest non-issue I have ever seen. Comparing it to bounty-gate is silly. Ask a Vikings fan hoping for their first Super Bowl what they thought about all the cheap shots on Favre by the Saints in the NFC Champhionship. To me, that had an actual impact on who won the Super Bowl, this is about 0.001% of that.

 

[stbugs]

And if the league was ALREADY monitoring the ball inflation because of other complaints, wouldn't they make every effort to make sure they had the footballs under surveillance at all times?

They probably did, hence switching out the balls during the game. People are acting like they didn't check them multiple times and didn't switch the balls in. Again, it was 17-7 in the first half with the "deflated" balls and 28-0 in the second half with the replacement balls.

 

[stbugs]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

Wouldn't it be awesome to see Brunnell have to do a blind test with balls with a 0.5 PSI increment. To see him guess wrong repeatedly would put this story to bed.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

No way. A fully inflated ball from a "just enough" inflated ball feels very different in every sport. Even to a schlub like me. 12.5 vs 10.5 is a BIG difference.

 

[AngryPatriot]

And if the league was ALREADY monitoring the ball inflation because of other complaints, wouldn't they make every effort to make sure they had the footballs under surveillance at all times?

They probably did, hence switching out the balls during the game. People are acting like they didn't check them multiple times and didn't switch the balls in. Again, it was 17-7 in the first half with the "deflated" balls and 28-0 in the second half with the replacement balls.

True, but there are reports that Brady switched in a magic ball in the 2nd half, made from a sacred Peruvian mountain pig with predator like cloaking properties.

 

[cstu]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

Wouldn't it be awesome to see Brunnell have to do a blind test with balls with a 0.5 PSI increment. To see him guess wrong repeatedly would put this story to bed.

From watching Bettis squeeze them it doesn't seem difficult to tell the difference.

 

[bostonfred]

brunell also said that lower psi was a huge advantage - but then said he didn't use the lowest psi allowed.

it's weird, too, because ESPN organized an unbiased panel of experts who had all lost to the patriots in the afccg or superbowl. They're selling ads, not actual news.

 

[otello]

I don't believe BB either, assuming he is the same BB who was covered in that WSJ article last week.

 

[mbuehner]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

No way. A fully inflated ball from a "just enough" inflated ball feels very different in every sport. Even to a schlub like me. 12.5 vs 10.5 is a BIG difference.

Ok, but your making a lot of assumptions about what a 10.5psi inflated ball being 'just enough'. Its not like an underinflated beach ball or a nerf ball or something. The consensus seems to be it MIGHT be a noticeable difference at best. The refs handled the balls more than anybody and didnt notice anything.

 

[Itchy Amos]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

Wouldn't it be awesome to see Brunnell have to do a blind test with balls with a 0.5 PSI increment. To see him guess wrong repeatedly would put this story to bed.

He might be able to tell in a TV studio if he squeezed a 13.5 psi ball and then squeezed a 11.0 psi ball, but if you tossed him a random football and asked him to identify whether it was more or less than 13.0, he's likely have a tough time with it.

 

[otello]

brunell also said that lower psi was a huge advantage - but then said he didn't use the lowest psi allowed.

it's weird, too, because ESPN organized an unbiased panel of experts who had all lost to the patriots in the afccg or superbowl. They're selling ads, not actual news.

Have any other QBs that aren't biased commented on this?

 

[[icon]]

I'll dial down the shtick for a minute and give my honest OPINION here... There was no "tampering" with the footballs as many are seeking here.

WHAT I THINK HAPPENED (OCCAMS RAZOR):
• I think a series of footballs presented to Brady during pregame warmups, he picked one that felt the best under those conditions.
• All game footballs were adjusted to match that feel. Were the ball techs aware it was under spec? Probably.

MY OPINION / THEORY ON THE OVERALL PRACTICE:
• In colder weather Brady prefers a slightly under-inflated for better grip.
• Are the Patriots likely guilty of submitting balls that are "out of spec" for the game? Likely.

• It's looking like many (All?) teams/QBs prep their footballs how they like them (scuffing, adjusting inflation to their liking).
• It's crazy think that teams are nefariously adjusting the ball pressure on the sideline after inspection.
• I'm guessing teams submit the balls how they prefer them, putting the onus on the NFL officials to adjust to game spec if they deem so.
• NFL Officials are likely lax about it with quick hand-test of a few balls in the bags to be sure they're "close enough"
• I'm guessing the Colts knew this was coming so their balls were 100% in spec.
• It APPEARS this was a result of a "whistle-blower"... likely a team/individual with bad blood with the Patriots.

• There are unconfirmed reports that multiple teams are unhappy about this apparent "grey area" in rule enforcement being called into the public eye.

• The NFL is consistently adjusting rules to increase offense for increased public satisfaction. I'm GUESSING the lax enforcement of the ball pressure/doctoring is an unofficially tolerated practice to that end.
• It's possible the Patriots have pushed the limits if the "Grey area". The individual(s) with bad blood decided to use that to gain retribution.

MY OPINION ON WHERE WE GO FROM HERE:
• Are the Patriots the only ones doing this? Extremely unlikely based on the evidence slowly surfacing.
• Is it fair to submit out of spec balls and expect officials to be the "enforcers" to ensure the balls are in spec? I think so. Particularly given that this APPEARS that it might be a somewhat common practice. Others disagree. That's their right. ​

• The NFL does not want a huge scandal.
• I THINK they're unlikely to want to burn the Patriots at the stake here, likely because they're aware ball tolerances weren't being enforced strictly across the board.
• They're waiting for the frenzy to die down a bit (3-4 day media cycle) then they'll announce a wrist slap punishment, then quietly let all teams know the party's over and they're going to have to start putting gauges on every ball pregame.

Again... JMHO, but in many cases it's Occams Razor that wins the day.

 

[Warrior]

Over 2500 posts in this thread. Not sure why I feel the need to post my thoughts but here they are.

-I am not a Pats fan or hater.

-I think fans love to hate this team. Was the same for the Cowboys in the 90's.

-It's obvious to me that while the act of deflating a ball is a competitive advantage, it played no role in the Colts game. However, maybe in other games.

-I see no way that Bill is involved in any way shape or form.

-This is Brady/Ballboys/Equipment guys

-The risk ratio of advantage gained to potential penalty is beyond stupid.

-Perhaps I didn't see or hear the comments....but I noticed the Pats organization has never really said we are going to do our own internal investigation to find out what happened. It's been we will co operate with the league and deny any knowledge because it will be near impossible to prove. They know this.

-Based on the past of Spygate and now this will factor in the punishment. Bountygate did not deal with cheating and the league gave have huge penalties and then the Commish was seen as being light on the Rice case. This is going to get ugly imo.

However, the problem for the league is 2 fold. Obviously there is enough circumstantial evidence to prove some wrong doing, but the problem is who do you punish specifically and how much. They have to prove it beyond a doubt if they are going to suspend Brady. I do not see this happening.

Prediction:

Team fine - 1 million dollars

Team loses - 1rst and 2nd round picks

Brady fined - $50000-$100000

Hoody fined -$50000-$100000

Ball boys/equipment managers get fired.

$1.1million + in fines, plus 1st and 2nd round picks.

I see this as a $25k fine and nothing else. You're going WAAAAAY overboard.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think there's a huge psychological aspect to getting your balls just so you want them and thinking you can tell the difference, when my guess is in most cases, even professional qb's would not be able to in a blind test.

No way. A fully inflated ball from a "just enough" inflated ball feels very different in every sport. Even to a schlub like me. 12.5 vs 10.5 is a BIG difference.

Ok, but your making a lot of assumptions about what a 10.5psi inflated ball being 'just enough'. Its not like an underinflated beach ball or a nerf ball or something. The consensus seems to be it MIGHT be a noticeable difference at best. The refs handled the balls more than anybody and didnt notice anything.

Sorry man. Go do this yourself and you'll see. It's not some barely noticeable difference.