Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Someone deflated those balls. Now prove brady orchestrated it. Now stop kraft from suing the nfl if there is a big fine. Good luck.

 

[parrot]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Hanlon's Razor - never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained through incompetence.

Assuming that a ref didn't do his job on perhaps the single most important day to do said job in his career- a conference championship game in bad weather- doesn't strike me as an "adequate" explanation.

I would say he did 99% of his job completely adequately and this small portion - that doesn't seem to have a lot in the way of defined procedures - is still in some doubt.

 

[DocHolliday]

The Patriots are America's team. The NFL will have to do issue a little punishment for the Pat's latest cheating to make it look like they are running a tight ship. I expect the Pats to lose a 4th round draft pick and get a $250,000 fine at most.

 

[Thunderlips]

Someone deflated those balls. Now prove brady orchestrated it. Now stop kraft from suing the nfl if there is a big fine. Good luck.

*

The thing I love about it is that those SB balls will be under lock and key and harder than a bowling ball....old Lady Hands Brady will be struggling.

Maybe SEA has been behind this all along?.....

 

[TobiasFunke]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

 

[Run It Up]

. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I don't think repeating this over and over is gonna somehow elevate that this wasn't just another game.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

It's a big difference if you have both balls and you are trying to compare. One will be obviously firmer than the other. But, if the ref or QB are given a single ball, or a few of them pumped to the same PSI, are they going to be able to tell by feel whether they are above or below 12.5? I'd imagine quarterbacks have no idea what 12.5 "feels" like, or 10.5 feels like. What they know is whether they like the feel of the ball they are holding or not. I'd guess it would have to be much lower for someone to know by feel that a ball was illegally low pressure.

For example, any of us can compare two significantly differently inflated car tires and feel which one is firmer. But if you walked up to random car and felt one tire you wouldn't be able to say by feel whether it was inflated to 25 psi or 32 psi or 36 psi.

Any of us maybe not, but if you take a 25psi tire to a tire garage, I bet the guy working there can tell. What a lot of this has come down to, for me, is that someone with the familiarity of a football like Brady, as an elite veteran NFL QB who has played football for many years and handles multiple footballs all day long through practice, would have been able to tell.

You could probably give me 2 balls, one at 10.5 and the other at 13.5 and I might not be able to tell the difference. I'd have to conduct several tests of my own before I could notice a difference (I'm guessing here, never have handled an NFL football). But someone who handles footballs all the time should be able to. I sit in front of a computer all day. If someone adjusted the resolution of my monitor, or changed the settings of my mouse sensitivity by 16%, I would notice.

I can't get past Brady's statement that he didn't notice the ball pressure was different from, as he stated "12.5 is perfect for me" (paraphrased). If 12.5 is perfect, and that's what he's been using for the last 20 years of playing football, then I cannot believe that he did not notice it had dropped to 10.5, or even 11.0, etc.

Because he holds the ball for one or two seconds. I'm sure the balls get swapped out every few plays, though I don't know the logistics of it. He's diagnosing defense, blitzes, looking at primary, secondary and tertiary receivers, and trying to win a huge game.

Stopping to think about the psi of a particular ball in the few seconds he's holding it is probably not high on his priority list.

I'm sure if you handed him 2 different balls, one 12.5 and one 10.5 and had him feel them and take a few seconds to analyze them, he could probably tell the difference if that was his focus. But I think it's laughable to think he would notice during the game.

Based on everything I've read, and comments from ex QB's, I think it's laughable to think he wouldn't notice./shrug

You mean the ex QBs who are on ESPN trying to make the Pats look like they did something that didn't happen. Cool story bro. Aikman is the only one outside ESPN that's said it makes a difference. Everyone else has said its no big deal and has no effect on anything.

You've been one of the worst Pats fans in this thread. I don't know what you are reading but you don't appear to be following this very closely. It's absolutely not true that "everyone else has said its no big deal and has no effect on anything"

Jason Garrett was just on ESPN and he said pretty clearly that QB's are particular about their footballs and work closely with their equipment managers to make sure they are the way the like them.

To be fair, he also had a bit of a tongue in cheek grin suggesting he thought it was a ridiculous controversy but the relevant takeaway was that QB's are particular about how their footballs feel.

And lol at saying those ESPN guys are just trying to make the Pats look like they did something that didn't happen.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Lets not forget that he also turned Johnny Manziel into a newt, and thus far has refused to turn him back.

Also, we have captured him cussing on T.V. while under stressful disappointment.

Boy Scout, I don't think so.

 

[TobiasFunke]

. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I don't think repeating this over and over is gonna somehow elevate that this wasn't just another game.

Elevate?

 

[Tango]

It's a big difference if you have both balls and you are trying to compare. One will be obviously firmer than the other. But, if the ref or QB are given a single ball, or a few of them pumped to the same PSI, are they going to be able to tell by feel whether they are above or below 12.5? I'd imagine quarterbacks have no idea what 12.5 "feels" like, or 10.5 feels like. What they know is whether they like the feel of the ball they are holding or not. I'd guess it would have to be much lower for someone to know by feel that a ball was illegally low pressure.

For example, any of us can compare two significantly differently inflated car tires and feel which one is firmer. But if you walked up to random car and felt one tire you wouldn't be able to say by feel whether it was inflated to 25 psi or 32 psi or 36 psi.

Any of us maybe not, but if you take a 25psi tire to a tire garage, I bet the guy working there can tell. What a lot of this has come down to, for me, is that someone with the familiarity of a football like Brady, as an elite veteran NFL QB who has played football for many years and handles multiple footballs all day long through practice, would have been able to tell.

You could probably give me 2 balls, one at 10.5 and the other at 13.5 and I might not be able to tell the difference. I'd have to conduct several tests of my own before I could notice a difference (I'm guessing here, never have handled an NFL football). But someone who handles footballs all the time should be able to. I sit in front of a computer all day. If someone adjusted the resolution of my monitor, or changed the settings of my mouse sensitivity by 16%, I would notice.

I can't get past Brady's statement that he didn't notice the ball pressure was different from, as he stated "12.5 is perfect for me" (paraphrased). If 12.5 is perfect, and that's what he's been using for the last 20 years of playing football, then I cannot believe that he did not notice it had dropped to 10.5, or even 11.0, etc.

Because he holds the ball for one or two seconds. I'm sure the balls get swapped out every few plays, though I don't know the logistics of it. He's diagnosing defense, blitzes, looking at primary, secondary and tertiary receivers, and trying to win a huge game.

Stopping to think about the psi of a particular ball in the few seconds he's holding it is probably not high on his priority list.

I'm sure if you handed him 2 different balls, one 12.5 and one 10.5 and had him feel them and take a few seconds to analyze them, he could probably tell the difference if that was his focus. But I think it's laughable to think he would notice during the game.

Based on everything I've read, and comments from ex QB's, I think it's laughable to think he wouldn't notice./shrug

You mean the ex QBs who are on ESPN trying to make the Pats look like they did something that didn't happen. Cool story bro. Aikman is the only one outside ESPN that's said it makes a difference. Everyone else has said its no big deal and has no effect on anything.

Simms works for CBS.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Someone deflated those balls. Now prove brady orchestrated it. Now stop kraft from suing the nfl if there is a big fine. Good luck.

Yeah, we got that the first of the 5 times you've said it

 

[shader]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Fine, then if you'd prefer to believe Brady is lying, have at it. I honestly don't care what you believe. I don't think Brady is lying in this instance.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Someone deflated those balls. Now prove brady orchestrated it. Now stop kraft from suing the nfl if there is a big fine. Good luck.

You realize Kraft would kind of be suing himself, right?

 

[parrot]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Do the rules do that?

 

[Run It Up]

. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I don't think repeating this over and over is gonna somehow elevate that this wasn't just another game.

Elevate?

From 'a game' to 'possibly the most important game ever'

 

[TobiasFunke]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Fine, then if you'd prefer to believe Brady is lying, have at it. I honestly don't care what you believe. I don't think Brady is lying in this instance.

If you didn't care what other people believed about this you wouldn't have taken the time to write a post directing them to give the benefit of the doubt to one person over another. So now you're lying too! The whole house of cards is collapsing!

 

[Old Smiley]

Fun Fact: I was just out filling some tires and I had two guages with me. The readings differed by four psi. I wasn't even thinking about football, but that's pretty funny.

 

[shader]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Fine, then if you'd prefer to believe Brady is lying, have at it. I honestly don't care what you believe. I don't think Brady is lying in this instance.

If you didn't care what other people believed about this you wouldn't have taken the time to write a post directing them to give the benefit of the doubt to one person over another. So now you're lying too! The whole house of cards is collapsing!

I said I think people should give him the benefit of the doubt. If you don't want to do that, don't. I care less about what you believe with each of your posts.

 

[shader]

Fun Fact: I was just out filling some tires and I had two guages with me. The readings differed by four psi. I wasn't even thinking about football, but that's pretty funny.

Faulty football gauges! A new potential scapegoat.

 

[Run It Up]

Caplan just said on ESPN that a source told him that the NFL will not give an update on this today. Grain of salt.

 

[eBrian]

It's a big difference if you have both balls and you are trying to compare. One will be obviously firmer than the other.

But, if the ref or QB are given a single ball, or a few of them pumped to the same PSI, are they going to be able to tell by feel whether they are above or below 12.5? I'd imagine quarterbacks have no idea what 12.5 "feels" like, or 10.5 feels like. What they know is whether they like the feel of the ball they are holding or not. I'd guess it would have to be much lower for someone to know by feel that a ball was illegally low pressure.

For example, any of us can compare two significantly differently inflated car tires and feel which one is firmer. But if you walked up to random car and felt one tire you wouldn't be able to say by feel whether it was inflated to 25 psi or 32 psi or 36 psi.

Any of us maybe not, but if you take a 25psi tire to a tire garage, I bet the guy working there can tell. What a lot of this has come down to, for me, is that someone with the familiarity of a football like Brady, as an elite veteran NFL QB who has played football for many years and handles multiple footballs all day long through practice, would have been able to tell.

You could probably give me 2 balls, one at 10.5 and the other at 13.5 and I might not be able to tell the difference. I'd have to conduct several tests of my own before I could notice a difference (I'm guessing here, never have handled an NFL football). But someone who handles footballs all the time should be able to. I sit in front of a computer all day. If someone adjusted the resolution of my monitor, or changed the settings of my mouse sensitivity by 16%, I would notice.

I can't get past Brady's statement that he didn't notice the ball pressure was different from, as he stated "12.5 is perfect for me" (paraphrased). If 12.5 is perfect, and that's what he's been using for the last 20 years of playing football, then I cannot believe that he did not notice it had dropped to 10.5, or even 11.0, etc.

Because he holds the ball for one or two seconds. I'm sure the balls get swapped out every few plays, though I don't know the logistics of it. He's diagnosing defense, blitzes, looking at primary, secondary and tertiary receivers, and trying to win a huge game.

Stopping to think about the psi of a particular ball in the few seconds he's holding it is probably not high on his priority list.

I'm sure if you handed him 2 different balls, one 12.5 and one 10.5 and had him feel them and take a few seconds to analyze them, he could probably tell the difference if that was his focus. But I think it's laughable to think he would notice during the game.

I don't think he's thinking about the pressure of the ball specifically, but he would notice something's off. If, as you say, all a QB does is hold the ball for one or two seconds, then why does Tom Brady like his ball a certain way? Why does every QB in the NFL request special customizations to their ball, if they are as you said, busy idagnosing defense, blitzes, looking at primary, secondary and tertiary receivers and trying to win a huge game?

Why does he say "12.5 feels perfect for me". Are you suggesting that if they rolled out 13.5 psi balls, old balls, or unbuffed balls or balls preferred by a rival QB, that they would not notice? Something just doesn't add up there for me. Every QB is asking for their specifications. If they aren't going to notice, then why did the NFL allow this? At some point a bunch of QBs lobbied to allow this because they indeed notice the difference. If they do notice, then Tom should have noticed that the ball was not up to spec.

Right?

 

[shader]

Caplan just said on ESPN that a source told him that the NFL will not give an update on this today. Grain of salt.

shocking

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Fine, then if you'd prefer to believe Brady is lying, have at it. I honestly don't care what you believe. I don't think Brady is lying in this instance.

There are others who feel as you do....

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/23/7877193/patriots-deflategate-poll-lolololol-new-england/in/7622154

 

[KarmaPolice]

This isn't about deflating balls; this is about is there a culture of cheating that they'll do anything to get an edge.

"This is a bigger issue, and I think most people are missing the issue. It's an issue of if there is a culture of cheating at the organization that most people look at as the gold standard in this league. Is there a culture of cheating and breaking the rules?''

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12216634/former-carolina-panthers-gm-marty-hurney-angry-spygate-amid-new-england-patriots-controversy

where a lot of people disagree us that:1. Doing things to get an edge on your opponent <> cheating. -As long as you don't break the rules of the game,which the Pats did.

2. Being punished once 10 years ago <> a "culture" of cheating.-This is the definition of culture of cheating.

 

[the moops]

You would think that if the NFL really cared about this, there would be a required written protocol for officials checking the balls PSI before the game starts. Just so this sort of thing wouldn't come to shot like this.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

It's a big difference if you have both balls and you are trying to compare. One will be obviously firmer than the other.

But, if the ref or QB are given a single ball, or a few of them pumped to the same PSI, are they going to be able to tell by feel whether they are above or below 12.5? I'd imagine quarterbacks have no idea what 12.5 "feels" like, or 10.5 feels like. What they know is whether they like the feel of the ball they are holding or not. I'd guess it would have to be much lower for someone to know by feel that a ball was illegally low pressure.

For example, any of us can compare two significantly differently inflated car tires and feel which one is firmer. But if you walked up to random car and felt one tire you wouldn't be able to say by feel whether it was inflated to 25 psi or 32 psi or 36 psi.

Any of us maybe not, but if you take a 25psi tire to a tire garage, I bet the guy working there can tell. What a lot of this has come down to, for me, is that someone with the familiarity of a football like Brady, as an elite veteran NFL QB who has played football for many years and handles multiple footballs all day long through practice, would have been able to tell.

You could probably give me 2 balls, one at 10.5 and the other at 13.5 and I might not be able to tell the difference. I'd have to conduct several tests of my own before I could notice a difference (I'm guessing here, never have handled an NFL football). But someone who handles footballs all the time should be able to. I sit in front of a computer all day. If someone adjusted the resolution of my monitor, or changed the settings of my mouse sensitivity by 16%, I would notice.

I can't get past Brady's statement that he didn't notice the ball pressure was different from, as he stated "12.5 is perfect for me" (paraphrased). If 12.5 is perfect, and that's what he's been using for the last 20 years of playing football, then I cannot believe that he did not notice it had dropped to 10.5, or even 11.0, etc.

Balls are NEVER the same pressure in play as they are measured, unless the temperature is identical. Its established that on a cold day you can lose better than 1psi of pressure, so every QB in the league plays with balls less inflated than they are used to outdoors in the winter. On a very cold day it could well be 2psi. You don't hear complaining or even anybody mention that.

According to Peter King, the Colts balls stayed at the correct PSI throughout the game and even after the game.

Personally, I find the "weather caused the balls to lose PSI" theory a bit lacking in substance.

Well, it is a scientific fact. However, it's not a valid excuse. The balls have to be within the range while in use. They weren't, so the Patriots were in violation of the rules.

"Yes, officer. I know I was speeding, but the wind was at my back. If it wasn't windy I wouldn't have been speeding."

 

[TobiasFunke]

. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I don't think repeating this over and over is gonna somehow elevate that this wasn't just another game.

Elevate?

From 'a game' to 'possibly the most important game ever'

I didn't say that it was "possibly the most important game ever." And I don't have time to teach you the difference. Maybe this teaching clip can help you out.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Pretty funny article by Charles Pierce in Grantland:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/brady-belichick-and-great-balls-of-fire-a-front-row-seat-for-the-foxborough-farce/

 

[Bucky86]

It's kind of cute how the Pats fans are going all courtroom on this ####. The NFL doesn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt like a damn murder trial.

 

[the moops]

Wish we had a quote from a replacement official whether they were instructed to test all balls before play.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I know Belicheck has gotten a lot of crap over the years, some of it quite deserved.

But in his entire career, Brady has never had a smudge on his record. He's been a squeaky clean guy, much like Peyton Manning.

I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt over a backroom official who puts properly inflated balls in the sink as part of his "official" pregame testing.

You think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who stood to benefit from the alleged deflation and whose reputation and legacy would take a massive hit if he was guilty of wrongdoing over the guy whose job it is to maintain fair play ... why, exactly? Because you think he's a super duper swell guy?

Both are possibilities. Let me know which one sounds more likely to you:

1. The officials feel the balls, inspect them quickly and them deem them suitable for game play, but don't go through the considerable hassle of measuring all 24 game balls.

2. Tom Brady instructs his ballboys to secretly deflate the air after the inspection, although this practice could subject him to heavy scrutiny, could easily be caught, and could also lead to ballboys deflating them too much or "messing up his footballs".

I'll go with option 1 as the more likely scenario, but that's just me.

I think you're way overselling the "considerable hassle" of checking the pressure on a ball. It's a nothing task. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.I also think you're way overselling the Brady as boy scout thing. None of us know him very well, so you don't have a basis for it. However, we do know that he's probably the biggest complainer the league's ever seen when it comes to roughing the passer penalties. He once chased down an official after a game and cursed him out after a controversial PI non-call. That doesn't really strike me as a guy who I should assume respects the rules or the officials or fair play over his own interests.

Fine, then if you'd prefer to believe Brady is lying, have at it. I honestly don't care what you believe. I don't think Brady is lying in this instance.

Lot of haters out there...

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/22/tom-brady-bill-belichick-deflategate-press-conference

 

[Bucky86]

Wait, so the balls were checked before the game and were at the correct PSI? At halftime they were NOT? After the game they magically were back to the correct PSI? Someone lowered them and then re-filled them after the game?

 

[Dezbelief]

We don't even know for sure air was in the balls, could have been any kind of gas: oxygen, nitrogen, helium who knows.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

All haters with an axe to grind...

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/deflate-gate-nfl-players-pile-england-patriots-quarterback/story?id=28428275

 

[eBrian]

Wait, so the balls were checked before the game and were at the correct PSI? At halftime they were NOT? After the game they magically were back to the correct PSI? Someone lowered them and then re-filled them after the game?

Balls were corrected at halftime.

 

[JuniorNB]

You would think that if the NFL really cared about this, there would be a required written protocol for officials checking the balls PSI before the game starts. Just so this sort of thing wouldn't come to shot like this.

Oh I'm sure that the NFL will now have to incorporate a more rigid and consistent method for this now. I'm sure the league never considered that one team would cheat and make that necessary. There will also be a rule change about the eligible receiver/substitution thingy. They should have learned ten years ago that you can't leave a possible loophole.

 

[Old Smiley]

. And if the rules direct that it happen I have a hard time believing an official would ignore that directive before possibly the most important time an official will ever check a ball- a conference title game in horrible weather.

I don't think repeating this over and over is gonna somehow elevate that this wasn't just another game.

Or that the eyeball and squeeze test isn't completely adequate. The "competitive advantage" thing is completely unproven and just something some guys in ties are saying.

 

[Tango]

Where is Robert Kraft? I see his face on every field goal the Pats score and now he vanishes.

Good news is that he cannot escape next week's press corps. If you thought the Brady press conference was well attended; imagine that multiplied by around 100.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

You would think that if the NFL really cared about this, there would be a required written protocol for officials checking the balls PSI before the game starts. Just so this sort of thing wouldn't come to shot like this.

Oh I'm sure that the NFL will now have to incorporate a more rigid and consistent method for this now. I'm sure the league never considered that one team would cheat and make that necessary. There will also be a rule change about the eligible receiver/substitution thingy. They should have learned ten years ago that you can't leave a possible loophole.

If the rule was followed the way it's written this wouldn't be an issue. I believe the rule states after being checked they are to remain under the supervision by the refs until right before the game.

 

[Bucky86]

Wait, so the balls were checked before the game and were at the correct PSI? At halftime they were NOT? After the game they magically were back to the correct PSI? Someone lowered them and then re-filled them after the game?

Balls were corrected at halftime.

Gotcha.

 

[meanjoegreen]

A few thoughts by former NFL players/coaches:

"That would have to be driven by the quarterback," Madden told The Sports Xchange on Wednesday. "That's something that wouldn't be driven by a coach or just the equipment guy. Nobody, not even the head coach, would do anything to a football unilaterally, such as adjust the amount of pressure in a ball, without the quarterback not knowing. It would have to be the quarterback's idea."

"It's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this," Aikman told Dallas sports radio station KTCK-AM on Thursday. "For the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that."

"I did not believe what Tom had to say," former Packers, New York Jets and Jacksonville Jaguars player Brunell said on ESPN. "Those balls were deflated. Somebody had to do it. I don't believe there's an equipment manager in the NFL that would, on his own initiative, deflate a ball without the starting QB's approval ... That football is our livelihood. If you don't feel good about throwing that ball? Your success on the football field can suffer from that."

The ESPN analyst and former star of ABC's "The Bachelor" told "Good Morning America" todayhe's in disbelief that Brady didn't notice the ball was deflated below 12.5 pounds per square inch.

"I wouldn't believe that. Quarterbacks, again, they're so particular about the footballs they throw in these football games. It's kind of like your Starbucks order. Some quarterbacks like footballs that are worn in. Some like them inflated. Some like them deflated," he said.

"I'm so disappointed because I thought this was a perfect opportunity for Tom Brady to go and say 'You know what? I made a mistake. I blew it. It's on me. I'll take the blame here, and this will go away.' He didn't do that," Bettis, nicknamed "The Bus," told ESPN. "I'm disappointed in you, Tom Brady."

"It's cheating," Hines Ward said on Wednesday. "Regardless of how you may want to spin it. It helps Tom Brady, provides a better grip on the football, especially in bad weather conditions like rain."

"This is unbelievable," Dawkins, nicknamed "Weapon X," said on ESPN. "For you not to know what you touch every play? ... The equipment manager is being thrown under the bus now. Now he's the guy. Now he's the one responsible. He took it upon himself to doctor up the balls when nobody else knew about it? That hard [to believe]."

 

[Dan Lambskin]

You rubes are really still debating this?

 

[Lutherman2112]

Statement from the NFL:

"Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

"The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise. We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.

"The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence. While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

"Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly."

 

[[icon]]

The NFL will have to do issue a little punishment for the Pat's latest cheating to make it look like they are running a tight ship. I expect the Pats to lose a 4th round draft pick and get a $250,000 fine at most.

Yep

 

[devouredbychaos]

A few thoughts by former NFL players/coaches:

"That would have to be driven by the quarterback," Madden told The Sports Xchange on Wednesday. "That's something that wouldn't be driven by a coach or just the equipment guy. Nobody, not even the head coach, would do anything to a football unilaterally, such as adjust the amount of pressure in a ball, without the quarterback not knowing. It would have to be the quarterback's idea."

"It's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this," Aikman told Dallas sports radio station KTCK-AM on Thursday. "For the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that."

"I did not believe what Tom had to say," former Packers, New York Jets and Jacksonville Jaguars player Brunell said on

ESPN."Those balls were deflated. Somebody had to do it. I don't believe there's an equipment manager in the NFL that would, on his own initiative, deflate a ball without the starting QB's approval ... That football is our livelihood. If you don't feel good about throwing that ball? Your success on the football field can suffer from that."

The ESPN analyst and former star of ABC's "The Bachelor" told "Good Morning America" todayhe's in disbelief that Brady didn't notice the ball was deflated below 12.5 pounds per square inch.



"I wouldn't believe that. Quarterbacks, again, they're so particular about the footballs they throw in these football games. It's kind of like your Starbucks order. Some quarterbacks like footballs that are worn in. Some like them inflated. Some like them deflated," he said.

"I'm so disappointed because I thought this was a perfect opportunity for Tom Brady to go and say 'You know what? I made a mistake. I blew it. It's on me. I'll take the blame here, and this will go away.' He didn't do that," Bettis, nicknamed "The Bus," told ESPN. "I'm disappointed in you, Tom Brady."

"It's cheating," Hines Ward said on Wednesday. "Regardless of how you may want to spin it. It helps Tom Brady, provides a better grip on the football, especially in bad weather conditions like rain."

"This is unbelievable," Dawkins, nicknamed "Weapon X," said on ESPN. "For you not to know what you touch every play? ... The equipment manager is being thrown under the bus now. Now he's the guy. Now he's the one responsible. He took it upon himself to doctor up the balls when nobody else knew about it? That hard [to believe]."

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

The NFL statement seems to clear everything up, finally we can move on to talking about the game next Sunday.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.

Interesting.

Renaissance's computer forensics examiners have years of extensive experience conducting forensic examinations both as law enforcement agents and in private practice. The firm offers full service computer forensics support and guides clients through every phase of an investigation from identifying the assets that may contain relevant data

 

[randall146]

It's a big difference if you have both balls and you are trying to compare. One will be obviously firmer than the other.

But, if the ref or QB are given a single ball, or a few of them pumped to the same PSI, are they going to be able to tell by feel whether they are above or below 12.5? I'd imagine quarterbacks have no idea what 12.5 "feels" like, or 10.5 feels like. What they know is whether they like the feel of the ball they are holding or not. I'd guess it would have to be much lower for someone to know by feel that a ball was illegally low pressure.

For example, any of us can compare two significantly differently inflated car tires and feel which one is firmer. But if you walked up to random car and felt one tire you wouldn't be able to say by feel whether it was inflated to 25 psi or 32 psi or 36 psi.

Any of us maybe not, but if you take a 25psi tire to a tire garage, I bet the guy working there can tell. What a lot of this has come down to, for me, is that someone with the familiarity of a football like Brady, as an elite veteran NFL QB who has played football for many years and handles multiple footballs all day long through practice, would have been able to tell.

You could probably give me 2 balls, one at 10.5 and the other at 13.5 and I might not be able to tell the difference. I'd have to conduct several tests of my own before I could notice a difference (I'm guessing here, never have handled an NFL football). But someone who handles footballs all the time should be able to. I sit in front of a computer all day. If someone adjusted the resolution of my monitor, or changed the settings of my mouse sensitivity by 16%, I would notice.

I can't get past Brady's statement that he didn't notice the ball pressure was different from, as he stated "12.5 is perfect for me" (paraphrased). If 12.5 is perfect, and that's what he's been using for the last 20 years of playing football, then I cannot believe that he did not notice it had dropped to 10.5, or even 11.0, etc.

My point is not that you can't tell the difference. Brady and you and I can all probably tell by feel that a 10.5 is softer than a 12.5. My point is that if any of us had a single ball we'd have no idea of the actual psi - the number itself. The tire guy might know because it's his job to inflate to 30, and he uses a gauge to do it. Brady doesn't use a gauge. He just knows too hard, good, or too soft.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.