Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[Workhorse]

It took Pash 4 months to fully investigate the Dolphins bullying situation. By the time this report comes out, it will be pretty far off the national radar IMO.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

It took Pash 4 months to fully investigate the Dolphins bullying situation. By the time this report comes out, it will be pretty far off the national radar IMO.

perhaps before the 4 months is up they will get around to talking with Brady

 

[mbuehner]

It's a big difference if you have both balls and you are trying to compare. One will be obviously firmer than the other.

But, if the ref or QB are given a single ball, or a few of them pumped to the same PSI, are they going to be able to tell by feel whether they are above or below 12.5? I'd imagine quarterbacks have no idea what 12.5 "feels" like, or 10.5 feels like. What they know is whether they like the feel of the ball they are holding or not. I'd guess it would have to be much lower for someone to know by feel that a ball was illegally low pressure.

For example, any of us can compare two significantly differently inflated car tires and feel which one is firmer. But if you walked up to random car and felt one tire you wouldn't be able to say by feel whether it was inflated to 25 psi or 32 psi or 36 psi.

Any of us maybe not, but if you take a 25psi tire to a tire garage, I bet the guy working there can tell. What a lot of this has come down to, for me, is that someone with the familiarity of a football like Brady, as an elite veteran NFL QB who has played football for many years and handles multiple footballs all day long through practice, would have been able to tell.

You could probably give me 2 balls, one at 10.5 and the other at 13.5 and I might not be able to tell the difference. I'd have to conduct several tests of my own before I could notice a difference (I'm guessing here, never have handled an NFL football). But someone who handles footballs all the time should be able to. I sit in front of a computer all day. If someone adjusted the resolution of my monitor, or changed the settings of my mouse sensitivity by 16%, I would notice.

I can't get past Brady's statement that he didn't notice the ball pressure was different from, as he stated "12.5 is perfect for me" (paraphrased). If 12.5 is perfect, and that's what he's been using for the last 20 years of playing football, then I cannot believe that he did not notice it had dropped to 10.5, or even 11.0, etc.

Balls are NEVER the same pressure in play as they are measured, unless the temperature is identical. Its established that on a cold day you can lose better than 1psi of pressure, so every QB in the league plays with balls less inflated than they are used to outdoors in the winter. On a very cold day it could well be 2psi. You don't hear complaining or even anybody mention that.

According to Peter King, the Colts balls stayed at the correct PSI throughout the game and even after the game.

Personally, I find the "weather caused the balls to lose PSI" theory a bit lacking in substance.

I wasnt saying the weather caused this case- the temperature change wasnt great enough to account for it. What i was pointing out is that every QB in the league has played with balls 2psi lower than usual many times, and nobody has mentioned it. Its just not some huge difference that you would find obvious if you werent intentionally comparing.

 

[Anarchy99]

For all these so called experts and talking heads, I think someone should inflate a dozen footballs at all different pressures, mix them all up, and number them 1-12. On top of that, have some of them be clean, some of them muddy, some of them scuffed, some of them slick, and some of them wet to emulate conditions similar to NE the other night. Then give them each 2-3 seconds with each ball (the time Brady would have each one in his hands before handing it off of throwing it). Oh, and let's add a 300 pound lineman running right at them for good measure. Then have them accurately list off the numbers of balls (without touching them again) in the proper order in terms of ball pressure. I would bet my house that they would be way off in their rankings. And that's not even trying to look downfield and read a defense.

This in no way absolves the Patriots of any potential in wrong doing. My point was that folks that are coming out that "of course Brady should know what the difference was" have no idea what the exact situation was like and those that picked up two different balls in a studio knew that one was properly inflated and the other one wasn't. Not a tough one to decipher with all the time in the world to poke and prod and squeeze a dry football.

 

[randall146]

Fun Fact: I was just out filling some tires and I had two guages with me. The readings differed by four psi. I wasn't even thinking about football, but that's pretty funny.

Unpossible

 

[mbuehner]

Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

Thats an interesting way to put it. 'Inspect' is not usually the word you would use if you were measuring. My theory is still that the NFL is going to play very coy with whether the balls were actually measured.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

 

[devouredbychaos]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

He absolutely could tell the difference.

 

[Man In The Box]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

He would know immediately. As soon as he grips it.

 

[MG345]

Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

Thats an interesting way to put it. 'Inspect' is not usually the word you would use if you were measuring. My theory is still that the NFL is going to play very coy with whether the balls were actually measured.

That is absolutely the language you would use.

 

[mbuehner]

We know this because we know this.

 

[shader]

So they are interviewing tons of people. I just find it hard to believe that Brady would flat out say he knew nothing about it, if the NFL had investigators in there scaring ballboys and other employees, who knew that Brady was in on it.

I wouldn't put my reputation in the hands of a 20 year old ball boy who makes 10 bucks an hour when the NFL has professional investigators on the case.

I guess for now there is nothing more that can be learned until they announce the results of their testing.

I hope the investigators spend some time looking at the "inspection" process.

 

[Bucky86]

For all these so called experts and talking heads, I think someone should inflate a dozen footballs at all different pressures, mix them all up, and number them 1-12. On top of that, have some of them be clean, some of them muddy, some of them scuffed, some of them slick, and some of them wet to emulate conditions similar to NE the other night. Then give them each 2-3 seconds with each ball (the time Brady would have each one in his hands before handing it off of throwing it). Oh, and let's add a 300 pound lineman running right at them for good measure. Then have them accurately list off the numbers of balls (without touching them again) in the proper order in terms of ball pressure. I would bet my house that they would be way off in their rankings. And that's not even trying to look downfield and read a defense.

This in no way absolves the Patriots of any potential in wrong doing. My point was that folks that are coming out that "of course Brady should know what the difference was" have no idea what the exact situation was like and those that picked up two different balls in a studio knew that one was properly inflated and the other one wasn't. Not a tough one to decipher with all the time in the world to poke and prod and squeeze a dry football.

Or, you know, they could toss the ball around on the side line to warm up before the game, during the game, and at halftime.

 

[randall146]

Well, it is a scientific fact. However, it's not a valid excuse. The balls have to be within the range while in use. They weren't, so the Patriots were in violation of the rules.

Actually the rule is conflicted on that. The teams have to provide legal balls 2:15 before the game. Then they are in sole custody of the ref. Then they go to the ballboys, and cannot be tampered with. If the team remained responsible for their psi after initial inspection, the team would have to be allowed to adjust the pressure after the inspection if, for example, there was a temperature increase or drop.

Plus, it's the team's responsibility to provide the balls initially, but thereafter it is the ref's (not the team's) responsibility to get rid of noncompliant balls.

So I don't think the Pats were necessarily in violation of the rule even if playing with below 12.5 balls during the game

 

[BustedKnuckles]

It's kind of cute how the Pats fans are going all courtroom on this ####. The NFL doesn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt like a damn murder trial.

well its pretty obvious this isnt a court of law seeing how many people have the pats guilty and punished already without a trace of evidence they did anything wrong

 

[thatguy]

Serious question: any chance they administer polygraphs as part of the investigation, and if so would the results be permissible as evidence?

I see no reason not to at least do this, whether or not the results are deemed permissable.

 

[[icon]]

I this thread

 

[MattFancy]

Serious question: any chance they administer polygraphs as part of the investigation, and if so would the results be permissible as evidence?

I see no reason not to at least do this, whether or not the results are deemed permissable.

Lol this isn't a murder case

 

[thatguy]

Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sundays game.

Thats an interesting way to put it. 'Inspect' is not usually the word you would use if you were measuring. My theory is still that the NFL is going to play very coy with whether the balls were actually measured.

'Confirm that the standard is satisfied' seems to imply that measurements were taken.

 

[Bucky86]

It's kind of cute how the Pats fans are going all courtroom on this ####. The NFL doesn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt like a damn murder trial.

well its pretty obvious this isnt a court of law seeing how many people have the pats guilty and punished already without a trace of evidence they did anything wrong

The balls were below NFL rules. Thats a fact.

An NFL "crime" was committed.

The standards to prove this aren't the same as a court of law. The only issue now is finding out WHO exactly is responsible. If they cant specifically pin this on Tom Brady(which i doubt they will, unless they don't pay the ball boy enough to keep his mouth shut) they will punish the team as a whole. Draft picks and a monetary fine. $250,000 is my guess a repeat offender.

 

[kyoun1e]

Surprised the NFL isn't getting more heat on this.

They were tipped off before the game and basically conducted a "sting" operation on the Pats. Sneaky.

In doing this, they essentially put the first half of the AFC championship game in jeopardy (if anyone actually believes the deflated balls made a difference).

Now, their operation is taking away from the actual game itself.

And the NFL wants to protect the integrity of the game?

The NFL is as bad as the Pats. Maybe worse.

 

[thatguy]

Serious question: any chance they administer polygraphs as part of the investigation, and if so would the results be permissible as evidence?

I see no reason not to at least do this, whether or not the results are deemed permissable.

Lol this isn't a murder case

So? If they want the truth, why not do this?

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

You've been terrible in this thread. How about you provide examples of these plenty of people who've said "it's no big deal"? Note: "it's no big deal" does not equal "had no impact on the outcome of the game"... A point which has been acknowledged by...well just about everyone.

You've already inaccurately characterized comments by Tony Romo earlier in the thread as "being on our side". I saw his comments. He was obviously reluctant to even comment on the issue but clearly said football issues were between the QB and the equipment guy and then laughingly said something along the lines of 'ask the ball boy'.

He did say-paraphrasing-when you're on top for so long there will always be those who want to knock you down. I don't disagree with that either. But that does not suggest "it's no big deal" (or maybe in your world it does). So let's see your "research"

 

[devouredbychaos]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

He absolutely could tell the difference.

Lol. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel smarter.

 

[shader]

Well, it is a scientific fact. However, it's not a valid excuse. The balls have to be within the range while in use. They weren't, so the Patriots were in violation of the rules.

Actually the rule is conflicted on that. The teams have to provide legal balls 2:15 before the game. Then they are in sole custody of the ref. Then they go to the ballboys, and cannot be tampered with. If the team remained responsible for their psi after initial inspection, the team would have to be allowed to adjust the pressure after the inspection if, for example, there was a temperature increase or drop.

Plus, it's the team's responsibility to provide the balls initially, but thereafter it is the ref's (not the team's) responsibility to get rid of noncompliant balls.

So I don't think the Pats were necessarily in violation of the rule even if playing with below 12.5 balls during the game

That's potentially a good point.

We need to know how long the Patriots had the "properly inspected" balls.

 

[Old Smiley]

Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sundays game.

Thats an interesting way to put it. 'Inspect' is not usually the word you would use if you were measuring. My theory is still that the NFL is going to play very coy with whether the balls were actually measured.

'Confirm that the standard is satisfied' seems to imply that measurements were taken.

Yeah, it "implies" it. Doesn't say it. Jesus. They go into weasel mode when they don't even have to. I repeat: I'm surprised this league can pass water.

 

[moleculo]

Serious question: any chance they administer polygraphs as part of the investigation, and if so would the results be permissible as evidence?

I see no reason not to at least do this, whether or not the results are deemed permissable.

I don't think Mike Shanahan is part of the investigation team.

 

[thatguy]

Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sundays game.

Thats an interesting way to put it. 'Inspect' is not usually the word you would use if you were measuring. My theory is still that the NFL is going to play very coy with whether the balls were actually measured.

'Confirm that the standard is satisfied' seems to imply that measurements were taken.

Yeah, it "implies" it. Doesn't say it. Jesus. They go into weasel mode when they don't even have to. I repeat: I'm surprised this league can pass water.

The way I see it, the only way to 'confirm' such a thing would be to take a measurement. So if no measurements were actually taken, I would say the NFL flat out lied. I guess my point is if they were attempting to be evasive by using ambiguity, they failed.

 

[mbuehner]

It's kind of cute how the Pats fans are going all courtroom on this ####. The NFL doesn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt like a damn murder trial.

well its pretty obvious this isnt a court of law seeing how many people have the pats guilty and punished already without a trace of evidence they did anything wrong

The balls were below NFL rules. Thats a fact.

An NFL "crime" was committed.

The standards to prove this aren't the same as a court of law. The only issue now is finding out WHO exactly is responsible. If they cant specifically pin this on Tom Brady(which i doubt they will, unless they don't pay the ball boy enough to keep his mouth shut) they will punish the team as a whole. Draft picks and a monetary fine. $250,000 is my guess a repeat offender.

Every football game where a ball started out inflated at 12.5psi at 68d, played outside at a temperature under 68d F will be in violation of the rules, as the pressure will drop below 12.5psi.

 

[MG345]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

He absolutely could tell the difference.

Lol. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel smarter.

Keep LOLing if that makes you feel like less of a fraud. It is looking more and more likely that the Pats deflated the balls, it is just a matter of how and when. Weather doesn't explain away anything. The ONLY thing that could possibly happened is the balls were not checked with a gauge before the game. But, inspection in this context means that they were checking to see whether things complied to the rules, it does not imply a less formal visual or tactile check. If that is the case and they did check these with a gauge, and no other balls that day deflated to that degree (which we are hearing now all the other balls, including the replacement balls, did not deflate) that leaves only one possible solution: tampering.

 

[pizzatyme]

For all these so called experts and talking heads, I think someone should inflate a dozen footballs at all different pressures, mix them all up, and number them 1-12. On top of that, have some of them be clean, some of them muddy, some of them scuffed, some of them slick, and some of them wet to emulate conditions similar to NE the other night. Then give them each 2-3 seconds with each ball (the time Brady would have each one in his hands before handing it off of throwing it). Oh, and let's add a 300 pound lineman running right at them for good measure. Then have them accurately list off the numbers of balls (without touching them again) in the proper order in terms of ball pressure. I would bet my house that they would be way off in their rankings. And that's not even trying to look downfield and read a defense.

This in no way absolves the Patriots of any potential in wrong doing. My point was that folks that are coming out that "of course Brady should know what the difference was" have no idea what the exact situation was like and those that picked up two different balls in a studio knew that one was properly inflated and the other one wasn't. Not a tough one to decipher with all the time in the world to poke and prod and squeeze a dry football.

Or, maybe Brady knew all along what the pressure was set at and so none of this would be necessary. It also makes it easy to say he couldn't tell a difference. Well of course he couldn't, they were all the same. And once they properly inflated them, they were again, all the same.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Serious question: any chance they administer polygraphs as part of the investigation, and if so would the results be permissible as evidence?

I see no reason not to at least do this, whether or not the results are deemed permissable.

Lol this isn't a murder case

So? If they want the truth, why not do this?

 

[thatguy]

Serious question: any chance they administer polygraphs as part of the investigation, and if so would the results be permissible as evidence?

I see no reason not to at least do this, whether or not the results are deemed permissable.

Lol this isn't a murder case

So? If they want the truth, why not do this?

Maybe I watch too much Steve Wilkos...It's my secret shame.

 

[Anarchy99]

I would pay big money if the NFL raided the Patriots offices and BB's house for any and all evidence of wrong doing PROVIDED they released in detail everything they found. It would be a given that the Pats would be in serious hot water, but I would feel extremely confident that a lot of teams would be going down with them.

 

[jonessed]

Statement from the NFL:

"Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sundays AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sundays game.

"The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise. We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.

"The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence. While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

"Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly."

Wow. Apparently they are taking this pretty damn seriously.

 

[Run It Up]

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Do you read anything?

 

[mbuehner]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

That isnt what happene Jackson said he couldnt tell the difference after the interception. The Colts 'knew' because they were #####ing about it after their last game against Pats during regular season.

 

[MG345]

Statement from the NFL:

"Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sundays AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sundays game.

"The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise. We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.

"The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence. While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

"Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly."

Wow. Apparently they are taking this pretty damn seriously.

Careful, don't tell that to all the Patriots fans in here. They might LOL at you.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/22/globe-reporter-billy-baker-tackles-deflategate/hNgvlTTTOvU4Dz6I3eluBL/story.html

 

[meanjoegreen]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

He absolutely could tell the difference.

Lol. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel smarter.

I'm guessing you are young and immature, and you have never played football past junior high if at all.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

That isnt what happene Jackson said he couldnt tell the difference after the interception. The Colts 'knew' because they were #####ing about it after their last game against Pats during regular season.

Gotcha. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[parrot]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

Funny that an experienced officiating crew handled the balls for an entire half, along with the Colts balls, and apparently never noticed anything strange.

Theisman reportedly actually did a test and called the difference negligible. Not that an actual test from an ex-NFL Qb should supersede the unsubstantiated opinions of guys on a fantasy football board or anything.

 

[mbuehner]

Ok, about a 2PSI difference being noticeable

- please note im NOT saying the weather caused the Patriots ball to deflate- im proving that 2psi pressure changes happen ALL THE TIME in the NFL and nobody notices or remarks on it.

A ball is filled in a 68d F room to a pressure of 13.0psi. It is taken outside and adjusts to a temperature of 30d F.

The pressure will now read 11psi, 2psi less.

This happens all the time in the NFL.

 

[RUSF18]

For all these so called experts and talking heads, I think someone should inflate a dozen footballs at all different pressures, mix them all up, and number them 1-12. On top of that, have some of them be clean, some of them muddy, some of them scuffed, some of them slick, and some of them wet to emulate conditions similar to NE the other night. Then give them each 2-3 seconds with each ball (the time Brady would have each one in his hands before handing it off of throwing it). Oh, and let's add a 300 pound lineman running right at them for good measure. Then have them accurately list off the numbers of balls (without touching them again) in the proper order in terms of ball pressure. I would bet my house that they would be way off in their rankings. And that's not even trying to look downfield and read a defense.

This in no way absolves the Patriots of any potential in wrong doing. My point was that folks that are coming out that "of course Brady should know what the difference was" have no idea what the exact situation was like and those that picked up two different balls in a studio knew that one was properly inflated and the other one wasn't. Not a tough one to decipher with all the time in the world to poke and prod and squeeze a dry football.

I'll only speak for myself, but I think it's reasonable to say something along the lines of "Brady should know the difference" when he came out and said "I like the ball at 12.5 PSI" or whatever the wording was. It just seemed really weird that he would be so specific about that number but then claim he can't tell the difference when it was under-inflated by 2 PSI. Granted, he could have just said it because he had the number in mind from all the coverage, but it was definitely odd.

Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

Thats an interesting way to put it. 'Inspect' is not usually the word you would use if you were measuring. My theory is still that the NFL is going to play very coy with whether the balls were actually measured.

"Inspection" is used to describe a process and "inspect" would be the word you use when you're also checking the quality of the laces and the condition of the ball. You wouldn't say you measure those things. Ever get your car inspected? They "measure" a ton of ####.

 

[msudaisy26]

This thread has brought out the best in all of us!

 

[Bucky86]

It's kind of cute how the Pats fans are going all courtroom on this ####. The NFL doesn't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt like a damn murder trial.

well its pretty obvious this isnt a court of law seeing how many people have the pats guilty and punished already without a trace of evidence they did anything wrong

The balls were below NFL rules. Thats a fact.

An NFL "crime" was committed.

The standards to prove this aren't the same as a court of law. The only issue now is finding out WHO exactly is responsible. If they cant specifically pin this on Tom Brady(which i doubt they will, unless they don't pay the ball boy enough to keep his mouth shut) they will punish the team as a whole. Draft picks and a monetary fine. $250,000 is my guess a repeat offender.

Every football game where a ball started out inflated at 12.5psi at 68d, played outside at a temperature under 68d F will be in violation of the rules, as the pressure will drop below 12.5psi.

That's why they have a range and require them to be filled to a certain level. That way taking into account weather changes, which have a minimal effect on the actual PSI, doesn't effect the balance and feel of the ball. Maybe they know that if a ball falls to 12 PSI it doesn't effect the shape of the ball, but anything 11.5 and below does. So they set the limit at 12.5 knowing even if it's 10 degrees outside that it would only fall to the "safe" range.

 

[jonessed]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

That isnt what happene Jackson said he couldnt tell the difference after the interception. The Colts 'knew' because they were #####ing about it after their last game against Pats during regular season.

Gotcha. I wasn't aware of that.

The interception ball went to the equipment manager and he noticed it.

 

[Run It Up]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

That isnt what happene Jackson said he couldnt tell the difference after the interception. The Colts 'knew' because they were #####ing about it after their last game against Pats during regular season.

Gotcha. I wasn't aware of that.

The interception ball went to the equipment manager and he noticed it.

Alleged, by one unnamed source.

No one has corroborated that yet.