Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[George Jefferson Airplane]

It's strange that through all of this, I strongly believe that the public perception/liking of the Patriots has gone UP due to this situation.

Ah, no.

 

[parrot]

Colts balls as we know did not fall below the 12.5 PSI mark (I would assume the NFL would be investigating them as well if they were)

We don't know this. All we know is somewhere at sometime the Colts balls were measured and found to be inline.

I've heard multiple times that both sets of balls were measured at halftime. Colts were good, Pats were underinflated.

Got a link by chance?

Sure, here's one:

"The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

You don't see how that doesn't say what he's saying? It's saying what I said...

It says that the Pats balls were illegal at halftime and that the Colts were legal...despite being subject to similar atmospheric conditions for nearly all of time in-between.

Im not sure and dont care what was said by others...as I m not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong.

Just re-stating that the Colts balls tested ok, the Pats didnt.

Then why reply to my request with an article that doesn't contribute to his point or my request?

Because the issue of whether the Colts balls qualified as a control group is an interesting one.

And it turns out that according to that report, to the furthest extent possible, the Colts balls were clean and the Pats werent for at least the wondow of time at halftime.

...and thus the who-dunnit on the Patriots balls continues. If you'd like to take that personally, go for it...but I dont get it.

Mort was supposed to be the guy with insiders; why is he quoting ESPN 810 out of Kansas City?

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Aaron Hernandez's trial has been delayed due to the weather. Maybe they can get him to come out on work release and shoot the air out of the balls.

 

[Run It Up]

Colts balls as we know did not fall below the 12.5 PSI mark (I would assume the NFL would be investigating them as well if they were)

We don't know this. All we know is somewhere at sometime the Colts balls were measured and found to be inline.

I've heard multiple times that both sets of balls were measured at halftime. Colts were good, Pats were underinflated.

Got a link by chance?

Sure, here's one:

"The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

You don't see how that doesn't say what he's saying? It's saying what I said...

It says that the Pats balls were illegal at halftime and that the Colts were legal...despite being subject to similar atmospheric conditions for nearly all of time in-between.

Im not sure and dont care what was said by others...as I m not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong.

Just re-stating that the Colts balls tested ok, the Pats didnt.

Then why reply to my request with an article that doesn't contribute to his point or my request?

Because the issue of whether the Colts balls qualified as a control group is an interesting one.

And it turns out that according to that report, to the furthest extent possible, the Colts balls were clean and the Pats werent for at least the wondow of time at halftime.

...and thus the who-dunnit on the Patriots balls continues. If you'd like to take that personally, go for it...but I dont get it.

I'm saying the when and where the Colts balls were tested is the important point. We know they tested the Pats balls at halftime. We know that the Colts balls were tested. That's it. If people are gonna pretend that the Colts balls are a counter argument then they need to answer those questions or ####.

 

[Road Warriors]

To my knowledge no former coach, player, or discharged ball boy has come out to bolster any claims. You would think one of them would be disgruntled enough to drop a dime, and yet silence. Hell, at least a few of them have already claimed Bill Cosby drugged and raped them, but have not made this disclosure yet.

What if you were a former ball boy/equipment manager and TMZ offers you 500K for an exclusive interview. Would you make up a story and cash in? No one could disprove you. As a Pats fan this is the scenario I fear the most.

Matt Walsh... ball boy?

 

[JIslander]

Colts balls as we know did not fall below the 12.5 PSI mark (I would assume the NFL would be investigating them as well if they were)

We don't know this. All we know is somewhere at sometime the Colts balls were measured and found to be inline.

I've heard multiple times that both sets of balls were measured at halftime. Colts were good, Pats were underinflated.

Got a link by chance?

Sure, here's one:

"The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

You don't see how that doesn't say what he's saying? It's saying what I said...

It says that the Pats balls were illegal at halftime and that the Colts were legal...despite being subject to similar atmospheric conditions for nearly all of time in-between.

Im not sure and dont care what was said by others...as I m not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong.

Just re-stating that the Colts balls tested ok, the Pats didnt.

Then why reply to my request with an article that doesn't contribute to his point or my request?

Because the issue of whether the Colts balls qualified as a control group is an interesting one.

And it turns out that according to that report, to the furthest extent possible, the Colts balls were clean and the Pats werent for at least the wondow of time at halftime.

...and thus the who-dunnit on the Patriots balls continues. If you'd like to take that personally, go for it...but I dont get it.

I'm saying the when and where the Colts balls were tested is the important point. We know they tested the Pats balls at halftime. We know that the Colts balls were tested. That's it. If people are gonna pretend that the Colts balls are a counter argument then they need to answer those questions or ####.

lol. Is there even a concrete "argument" to counter? This is silly until we hear from NFL.

 

[Mookie]

Too much speculation by the haters and slappies IMO. None of this is going to get sorted out until after the Super Bowl, and even then it is going to be mostly about damage control. If the Pats are absolved by the NFL, many will vies this as a CYA exercise by the NFL. If the Pats are hammered, many will view them as scapegoats who were unfairly singled out for punishment. A thorough investigation would lend credibility to the NFL, or it could help the NFL reach the conclusion it wants. I believe the latter is more likely - Gotta protect the brand.

Florio ("closer to 1 psi less" vs. Mort ("at least 2 psi") sources = Toss up. All we know is that the Pats balls were non-conforming at halftime and the Colts were conforming. Without knowing the actual psi measurements, everyone - including the scientists - are guessing.

Tough to call the Colts balls the "control group" since we don't know what they were inflated to for pre-game. Assuming the Pats were 12.5 and the Colts were 13.5 at pregame is disingenuous.

Jackson interception came with 9:11 left in the half. If a psi reading was taken then by equipment guy, and another reading was taken at halftime, it could help establish/debunk the natural deflation argument.

Brady and Belichick's statements are not helping the Pats cause, and past statements like "I like them deflated" certainly don't help. Spygate and the apparent accusations about deflation earlier in the season also don't help their claims that they are innocent of this isolated anomaly.

 

[amnesiac]

I'd like to explore just how serious it is that Brett Favre cheated to get 297 starts in a row. Its a complete statistical outlier, over 40% higher than the next best QB. I mean, I dont know HOW Favre cheated, or why it worked, but thats really beside the point. And honestly you have to throw out all his wins and his passing and completion records as well, which obviously are the end results of that cheating, however it was done.

pretty sure it was vicodin?

 

[amnesiac]

Colts balls as we know did not fall below the 12.5 PSI mark (I would assume the NFL would be investigating them as well if they were)

We don't know this. All we know is somewhere at sometime the Colts balls were measured and found to be inline.

I've heard multiple times that both sets of balls were measured at halftime. Colts were good, Pats were underinflated.

Got a link by chance?

Sure, here's one:

"The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

You don't see how that doesn't say what he's saying? It's saying what I said...

It says that the Pats balls were illegal at halftime and that the Colts were legal...despite being subject to similar atmospheric conditions for nearly all of time in-between.

Im not sure and dont care what was said by others...as I m not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong.

Just re-stating that the Colts balls tested ok, the Pats didnt.

Then why reply to my request with an article that doesn't contribute to his point or my request?

Because the issue of whether the Colts balls qualified as a control group is an interesting one.

And it turns out that according to that report, to the furthest extent possible, the Colts balls were clean and the Pats werent for at least the wondow of time at halftime.

...and thus the who-dunnit on the Patriots balls continues. If you'd like to take that personally, go for it...but I dont get it.

the Colts balls do not qualify as a control group. they were prepped by the Colts in a manner of their choosing, which is unknown.

if there is a group of footballs that the refs had access to, that were not prepped in any way, that would be a proper control group.

 

[amnesiac]

look at it this way; if a QB, such as Aaron Rodgers prefers to have his footballs "over-inflated", all they would have to do is stick them in the freezer, pump them up to 13.5, and then go have them tested by the ref.

 

[identikit]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

 

[mbuehner]

I'd like to explore just how serious it is that Brett Favre cheated to get 297 starts in a row. Its a complete statistical outlier, over 40% higher than the next best QB. I mean, I dont know HOW Favre cheated, or why it worked, but thats really beside the point. And honestly you have to throw out all his wins and his passing and completion records as well, which obviously are the end results of that cheating, however it was done.

pretty sure it was vicodin?

Could have been **** pics...

 

[squistion]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

 

[Run It Up]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

It was a guy, who claimed the psi wouldn't change unless you froze the ball... and then he admitted he didn't know.

 

[mbuehner]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

 

[Old Smiley]

WIIIIILLLLLSSSOOOOON!!!!!

 

[the moops]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Apparently just dumb

 

[Tango]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

You sir, are a Salty Hater.

 

[12punch]

that's why the dude works in a football factory instead of curing aids

 

[randall146]

From Mike Taniers column this morning:

But I have two specific punishments for the Patriots that have nothing to do with canceling the Super Bowl or vacating all of their championships and sending three Lombardi Trophies to Marty Hundley to make him feel better:

1) Sportswriters are banned from using the phrase "The Patriots Way" forever.

The phrase should be flagged with a purple underline by word processors. The Patriots Way is a big reason why we are in the Deflategate predicament. The Patriots have never been allowed to be a team that won bunches of football games because they are well-organized and have lots of great players. The New England-based sports media military industrial complex insisted on declaring them our intellectual, moral and philosophical betters.

Every champion is going to enjoy some undue butt kissing, but The Patriots Way is unique and excessive. There's no San Antonio Spurs Way, even though the Spurs are the Patriots of the NBA. The Steelers won multiple championships in the last decade without inspiring some quasi-religious Steelers Way.

I don't follow basket ball, but I thought I read that the Atlanta Hawks were doing things the Spurs way? And people talk about team building The Steelers Way all the time.

There are things I like about the way the Patriots do things. I really liked it when I heard the Pats had the most players in the league who had gotten their degrees. I like thinking we're a smart team. I USED to like to think the Pats drafted for character, too, but Hernandez deflated the #### out of that one.

Anyway this column is pretty much belittling the 'gate' thing.

He does call what Bill talked about on Saturday as 'pseudoscience'. I wouldn't call it that. More like back yard science. That's all science is -- checking stuff out.

I've always thought the patriot way was a description of their personnel practice of emphasizing the team over individual stars, playing hardball with their own free agents, and getting rid of players too early instead of too late. In other words, not a necessarily positive thing - more of a cold hearted practical way of doing things.

 

[12punch]

this is the patriot way, right here

if you don't know -- now ya know

 

[the moops]

From Mike Taniers column this morning:

But I have two specific punishments for the Patriots that have nothing to do with canceling the Super Bowl or vacating all of their championships and sending three Lombardi Trophies to Marty Hundley to make him feel better:

1) Sportswriters are banned from using the phrase "The Patriots Way" forever.

The phrase should be flagged with a purple underline by word processors. The Patriots Way is a big reason why we are in the Deflategate predicament. The Patriots have never been allowed to be a team that won bunches of football games because they are well-organized and have lots of great players. The New England-based sports media military industrial complex insisted on declaring them our intellectual, moral and philosophical betters.

Every champion is going to enjoy some undue butt kissing, but The Patriots Way is unique and excessive. There's no San Antonio Spurs Way, even though the Spurs are the Patriots of the NBA. The Steelers won multiple championships in the last decade without inspiring some quasi-religious Steelers Way.

I don't follow basket ball, but I thought I read that the Atlanta Hawks were doing things the Spurs way? And people talk about team building The Steelers Way all the time.

There are things I like about the way the Patriots do things. I really liked it when I heard the Pats had the most players in the league who had gotten their degrees. I like thinking we're a smart team. I USED to like to think the Pats drafted for character, too, but Hernandez deflated the #### out of that one.

Anyway this column is pretty much belittling the 'gate' thing.

He does call what Bill talked about on Saturday as 'pseudoscience'. I wouldn't call it that. More like back yard science. That's all science is -- checking stuff out.

I've always thought the patriot way was a description of their personnel practice of emphasizing the team over individual stars, playing hardball with their own free agents, and getting rid of players too early instead of too late.In other words, not a necessarily positive thing - more of a cold hearted practical way of doing things.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-belichick-nfl-draft-new-england-patriots/

 

[Anarchy99]

Colts balls as we know did not fall below the 12.5 PSI mark (I would assume the NFL would be investigating them as well if they were)

We don't know this. All we know is somewhere at sometime the Colts balls were measured and found to be inline.

I've heard multiple times that both sets of balls were measured at halftime. Colts were good, Pats were underinflated.

Got a link by chance?

Sure, here's one:

"The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

You don't see how that doesn't say what he's saying? It's saying what I said...

It says that the Pats balls were illegal at halftime and that the Colts were legal...despite being subject to similar atmospheric conditions for nearly all of time in-between.

Im not sure and dont care what was said by others...as I m not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong.

Just re-stating that the Colts balls tested ok, the Pats didnt.

Except there is no such provision in the rules for a football to be deemed "legal at halftime." The rules stipulate that a football has to pass inspection 2:15 before game time. (Technically speaking, even then a football might night be legally inflated if the refs don't test it.) That's it. I find it odd that no one has brought this up. The official rules do not provide any provisions for in-game, half time, or post game inflation checks of the footballs.

 

[squistion]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

You sir, are a Salty Hater.

Naw, can't be, I never drink margaritas.

 

[12punch]

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/who-exactly-is-mike-kensil-aka-the-ringleader-of-deflategate/

look at him -- he even looks like a shady *******

 

[mbuehner]

In fact the rules state "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications". So even if the ball was approved at 10 pounds of pressure before the game (or any pressure), it doesnt matter, its a legal ball.

Thats why the only way this is a scandal is if the balls were tampered with after the inspection.

 

[Old Smiley]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2h2 hours ago

Just had a very interesting phone call about #DeflateGate. Waiting for one more call. Stay tuned.

 

[the moops]

It would be so awesome though if this was some nefarious plan by someone who who was trying to frame the Patriots and it completely backfires on them and there is some video evidence.

 

[mbuehner]

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/who-exactly-is-mike-kensil-aka-the-ringleader-of-deflategate/

look at him -- he even looks like a shady *******

I dont know about conspiracy theories, but one of my questions after the report was released to the NFL would be- did anyone else stick a pressure gauge into a football at any time. I think its entirely plausible that the Colts measured that ball. Now that doesnt mean they were doing anything underhanded, but it would exclude that ball as evidence as it had been 'tampered' with. As anybody that has fillled anything up with air knows, when you stick a needle into a valve, some of the air escapes. If you watch the mini-documentary of the Refs fumbling around with the air gauge pre-game that is floating around, you can see one of the refs repeated letting out air as he tries to figure the thing out (you can hear the air getting out quite loudly, and the refs chuckling about it).

 

[Old Smiley]

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/who-exactly-is-mike-kensil-aka-the-ringleader-of-deflategate/

look at him -- he even looks like a shady *******

Kind of a salty, hatey look..

 

[amnesiac]

In fact the rules state "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications". So even if the ball was approved at 10 pounds of pressure before the game (or any pressure), it doesnt matter, its a legal ball.

Thats why the only way this is a scandal is if the balls were tampered with after the inspection.

exactly. and if they were tampered with post inspection there should be a fine and everyone should move on, imo.

 

[cmv5]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

 

[Flying Elvis]

I will reiterate: BEST. SB LULL. EVER.

 

[amnesiac]

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. Ive even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate.

http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/who-exactly-is-mike-kensil-aka-the-ringleader-of-deflategate/

look at him -- he even looks like a shady *******

I dont know about conspiracy theories, but one of my questions after the report was released to the NFL would be- did anyone else stick a pressure gauge into a football at any time. I think its entirely plausible that the Colts measured that ball. Now that doesnt mean they were doing anything underhanded, but it would exclude that ball as evidence as it had been 'tampered' with. As anybody that has fillled anything up with air knows, when you stick a needle into a valve, some of the air escapes. If you watch the mini-documentary of the Refs fumbling around with the air gauge pre-game that is floating around, you can see one of the refs repeated letting out air as he tries to figure the thing out (you can hear the air getting out quite loudly, and the refs chuckling about it).

agreed. no way you can take a football that was in the other team's possesion as evidence.

 

[mbuehner]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

Are you suggesting a ball dropping 20-30dF WONT decrease in pressure? I'm excited to see your ground breaking research.

 

[Godsbrother]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2h2 hours ago

Just had a very interesting phone call about #DeflateGate. Waiting for one more call. Stay tuned.

Thank the Lord for this update cause I was wondering if PFT had any interesting phone calls today.

 

[Godsbrother]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

The weather also only affected the Patriots balls.

 

[Doug B]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2h2 hours ago

Just had a very interesting phone call about #DeflateGate. Waiting for one more call. Stay tuned.

I'll believe it when I see it, Mr. Florio.

Jeez ... how does this even so much as leak out if it's all based on nothing? NFL just keeps getting waylaid in the PR arena over ans over. Are they ever effectively in control of "the message" anymore?

 

[mbuehner]

This has been bothering me (from the Mortensen piece):

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals.

People have been pointing to the backup balls as some sort of control. But which is it? Were the original balls reinflated? Or were the backups used? Or were the backups reinflated and then used?

This is the problem when you have anonymous sources providing all the information- especially when they start contradicting each other.

 

[12punch]

FINE THOSE ####### CHEATERS THEIR $25K!!!!!!

 

[Tango]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

First time in this thread?

Rule #1:

Notwithstanding a few exceptions, most arent running around saying the Pats are guilty. Most are just piecing together this or that and putting together theories.

Rule #2:

Attempting to piece together anything that might be construed as having a chance of finding guilt by the Patriots stirs a hornets nest of Patriots whackos that cycle through (1) denials (2) deflections, (3) half-baked scientific evidence (well, some are more fully baked than others to be fair), (4) conspiracy theories and (5) moral equivalencies in an attempt to protect their beloved.

I think your complaint should be filed under Rule 2, sub-section (3).

But dont complain, just roll with it. It's fun to see how far they'll go...

 

[mbuehner]

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

First time in this thread?

Rule #1:

Notwithstanding a few exceptions, most arent running around saying the Pats are guilty. Most are just piecing together this or that and putting together theories.

Rule #2:

Attempting to piece together anything that might be construed as having a chance of finding guilt by the Patriots stirs a hornets nest of Patriots whackos that cycle through (1) denials (2) deflections, (3) half-baked scientific evidence (well, some are more fully baked than others to be fair), (4) conspiracy theories and (5) moral equivalencies in an attempt to protect their beloved.

I think your complaint should be filed under Rule 2, sub-section (3).

But dont complain, just roll with it. It's fun to see how far they'll go...

Did you miss the part with all the wackos running around claiming everything the Patriots have done well in football for the last 10 years can be statistically proven due to underinflated footballs?

 

[yabahos]

So if what BB and Brady say are true, that there's nobody sticking a needle in to deflate the balls after official measurement, how does that really resolve the issue? other than to say again, we didn't deflate "within the rules". Based on the fumbling statistics provided, it appears the Pats were still getting a significant advantage which could be directly attributed to the football prep process. And to say they had no idea that their process resulted in balls deflated less than regulation is being pretty disingenuous.

There's many things that can be attributed to, to be fair.

fair enough. Just don't know what.

Here is to the link to some big issues with the fumbling statistics and analysis. First and foremost being that it looks like it included incomplete passes in the total plays from scrimmage which clearly skews the data b/c you can't fumble an incomplete pass. So teams that throw more incomplete passes should have a higher number of plays/fumble.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=724092&page=66#entry17718238

However, now that the data is out there, people will just accept it as fact b/c that is what we do. The data may very well show the Patriots fall outside the normal standard deviation but until it accounts for run/pass balance, strength of schedule, and adjusts the total plays from scrimmage to account for incomplete passes the data is worthless.

About all I've been able to take away is its nearly impossible to find good information on fumble statistics and recreate the data.

 

[Road Warriors]

In fact the rules state "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications". So even if the ball was approved at 10 pounds of pressure before the game (or any pressure), it doesnt matter, its a legal ball.

Thats why the only way this is a scandal is if the balls were tampered with after the inspection.

exactly. and if they were tampered with post inspection there should be a fine and everyone should move on, imo.

I think most, even Pats fans, have agreed with this stance.

What I haven't seen from those that have declared them guilty ( #saltyhaters ) is that if there is no proof of tampering after the inspection, this goes away with no penalty, and they're not cheating.

 

[T J]

So to summarize..Pats balls filled to 12.5 PSI, Colts to 13.5, the science has proven the PSI would drop 1 PSI from 70 degrees to 50.(not to mention the other CM analysis that a wet ball would drop another .7 PSI)

Pats balls drop to 11.5 PSI,below the limit, Colts drop to 12.5 PSI, still legal.

End of disccussion..Much to do about nothing..The NFL leak got the media in a frenzy becuae the evil Patriots and Bellichick were up to something fishy again. They ran with it and all the Pats haters ate it up. The NFL network and ESPN is filled with x players who hate the Pats because they eliminated them so often..they jumped on the bandwagon.

Good summary of your opinion of what happened.

 

[Flying Elvis]

This has been bothering me (from the Mortensen piece):

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals.

People have been pointing to the backup balls as some sort of control. But which is it? Were the original balls reinflated? Or were the backups used? Or were the backups reinflated and then used?

This is the problem when you have anonymous sources providing all the information- especially when they start contradicting each other.

Stacey James, NEP's lead PR person, has stated that the "backup balls" were used for the second half, and the slight delay experienced to start said half was due to said "backup balls" being retrieved from somewhere inside the Gillette facilities. Or, to put it appropriately for the thread, Stacey takes the backup balls inside in the facilities.

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

First time in this thread?

Rule #1:

Notwithstanding a few exceptions, most arent running around saying the Pats are guilty. Most are just piecing together this or that and putting together theories.

Rule #2:

Attempting to piece together anything that might be construed as having a chance of finding guilt by the Patriots stirs a hornets nest of Patriots whackos that cycle through (1) denials (2) deflections, (3) half-baked scientific evidence (well, some are more fully baked than others to be fair), (4) conspiracy theories and (5) moral equivalencies in an attempt to protect their beloved.

I think your complaint should be filed under Rule 2, sub-section (3).

But dont complain, just roll with it. It's fun to see how far they'll go...

Did you miss the part with all the wackos running around claiming everything the Patriots have done well in football for the last 10 years can be statistically proven due to underinflated footballs?

I wouldn't say "miss" as much as I'd say "conveniently ignored".

 

[JIslander]

So if what BB and Brady say are true, that there's nobody sticking a needle in to deflate the balls after official measurement, how does that really resolve the issue? other than to say again, we didn't deflate "within the rules". Based on the fumbling statistics provided, it appears the Pats were still getting a significant advantage which could be directly attributed to the football prep process. And to say they had no idea that their process resulted in balls deflated less than regulation is being pretty disingenuous.

There's many things that can be attributed to, to be fair.

fair enough. Just don't know what.

Here is to the link to some big issues with the fumbling statistics and analysis. First and foremost being that it looks like it included incomplete passes in the total plays from scrimmage which clearly skews the data b/c you can't fumble an incomplete pass. So teams that throw more incomplete passes should have a higher number of plays/fumble.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=724092&page=66#entry17718238

However, now that the data is out there, people will just accept it as fact b/c that is what we do. The data may very well show the Patriots fall outside the normal standard deviation but until it accounts for run/pass balance, strength of schedule, and adjusts the total plays from scrimmage to account for incomplete passes the data is worthless.

About all I've been able to take away is its nearly impossible to find good information on fumble statistics and recreate the data.

thanks -- I'm sure someone is on it - intuitively, however, for there to be a large adjustment to what's already been put out (referring to incomplete passes), would require Brady to be completing passes at rate less than half the league (guess); and I doubt that's the case. and LOL at using the stat of playing in the weak AFC to help the Pats argument

 

[Dr. Octopus]

that's why the dude works in a football factory instead of curing aids as a software engineer

fixed

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Too much speculation by the haters and slappies IMO. None of this is going to get sorted out until after the Super Bowl, and even then it is going to be mostly about damage control. If the Pats are absolved by the NFL, many will vies this as a CYA exercise by the NFL. If the Pats are hammered, many will view them as scapegoats who were unfairly singled out for punishment. A thorough investigation would lend credibility to the NFL, or it could help the NFL reach the conclusion it wants. I believe the latter is more likely - Gotta protect the brand.

Florio ("closer to 1 psi less" vs. Mort ("at least 2 psi") sources = Toss up. All we know is that the Pats balls were non-conforming at halftime and the Colts were conforming. Without knowing the actual psi measurements, everyone - including the scientists - are guessing.

Don't forget Dodds has them at up to 3 PSI under and said Brady claimed he couldn't tell the difference.

Talk about your lynch mob mentality narratives...

 

[Tango]

This has been bothering me (from the Mortensen piece):

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals.

People have been pointing to the backup balls as some sort of control. But which is it? Were the original balls reinflated? Or were the backups used? Or were the backups reinflated and then used?

This is the problem when you have anonymous sources providing all the information- especially when they start contradicting each other.

Stacey James, NEP's lead PR person, has stated that the "backup balls" were used for the second half, and the slight delay experienced to start said half was due to said "backup balls" being retrieved from somewhere inside the Gillette facilities. Or, to put it appropriately for the thread, Stacey takes the backup balls inside in the facilities.

Wilson (not the QB, the manufacturer) says Coach Bill is plain wrong:

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html

Those football manufacturers are just salty haters.

Wilson guy sounds like a real scientist. Claiming temperature wont affect pressure at all, thats a new one.

So this guy that works to manufacture these and has been doing this for quite some time knows nothing. Bill Nye knows nothing but Bill Belichick spends one day on something he is quoted on never even thinking about in his lifetime and he is the expert. What is wrong with you guys?

The whole psi thing is completely out of control. It wasn't absolute zero in the stadium. If balls were impacted the way you Patriot fans are suggesting then there would have been games in real extreme weather where they would have bad to pump the ball up because it would resemble a limp noodle. My god.

First time in this thread?

Rule #1:

Notwithstanding a few exceptions, most arent running around saying the Pats are guilty. Most are just piecing together this or that and putting together theories.

Rule #2:

Attempting to piece together anything that might be construed as having a chance of finding guilt by the Patriots stirs a hornets nest of Patriots whackos that cycle through (1) denials (2) deflections, (3) half-baked scientific evidence (well, some are more fully baked than others to be fair), (4) conspiracy theories and (5) moral equivalencies in an attempt to protect their beloved.

I think your complaint should be filed under Rule 2, sub-section (3).

But dont complain, just roll with it. It's fun to see how far they'll go...

Did you miss the part with all the wackos running around claiming everything the Patriots have done well in football for the last 10 years can be statistically proven due to underinflated footballs?

I wouldn't say "miss" as much as I'd say "conveniently ignored".

"Notwithstanding a few exceptions"