Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[Itchy Amos]

I still don't see deflated balls as anything but a very big competitive advantage to the Patriots, as many former football players have stated and that the Patriots fumble stats bear out. I'm already tired of the media narrative about cooperation and power and precedent.

It affected the games, dammit. It's easier to grip and hold. That's the most important thing here. It's also likely that if it didn't affect the games, there'd be no reason to do it. Aside from the sliver of possibility that it was mere superstition on his end, he obviously got an advantage out of the deflated balls -- otherwise it wouldn't have been a big deal to him.

I think that you - as a fan of an opposing team - have every right to revel in the Patriots bismirchment of their legacy. As a Patriots fan, I'm disgusted that they continually find themselves at the center of controversy. I also think that you're making WAY too much about the supposed advantage. I've seen several former quarterbacks talk about this ball inflation issue. Mark Brunell went on and on about how much of an advantage it was to use a ball at the low end of the inflation range. He then went on to say that he preferred his footballs to be at 13.0 psi. How can it be that he believes that a 12.5 ball is easier to throw & catch but at the same time demand that his game balls at something other than optimal? I've also heard many of former qbs claim that they never threw a ball that was below minimum pressure. Basic science tells you that in every single game where the temperature dropped 40 degrees from when the balls were measured inside the official's locker room to the end of the game that a ball below the minimum pressure was used. In order for their assertion to be true, they must not have ever played a game outside during the winter. Aaron Rodgers is on record as saying that he likes his footballs over inflated. He believes that over inflated footballs are easier for him to grip & throw. The only advantage that ball inflation provides is making that team's quarterback feel as comfortable & confident with the ball in their hands. Its just one less thing for them to worry about on game day.

If I wanted to get upset about this, it would be because the Patriots appear to have no issues pushing even the most benign of rules toward their favor. I'd have to assume that they were doing other things that when added together did give them a measurable advantage. Those fumble stats have been thoroughly discussed & debunked earlier in this thread, but if it makes you feel better, you are certainly entitled to keep on believing that the inflation pressure alone has a dramatic impact on the game. Its just not a position that most are going to ever subscribe to.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

think that you're making WAY too much about the supposed advantage.

I think it is being WAY undersold.

 

[rockaction]

I still don't see deflated balls as anything but a very big competitive advantage to the Patriots, as many former football players have stated and that the Patriots fumble stats bear out. I'm already tired of the media narrative about cooperation and power and precedent.

It affected the games, dammit. It's easier to grip and hold. That's the most important thing here. It's also likely that if it didn't affect the games, there'd be no reason to do it. Aside from the sliver of possibility that it was mere superstition on his end, he obviously got an advantage out of the deflated balls -- otherwise it wouldn't have been a big deal to him.

I think that you - as a fan of an opposing team - have every right to revel in the Patriots bismirchment of their legacy. As a Patriots fan, I'm disgusted that they continually find themselves at the center of controversy. I also think that you're making WAY too much about the supposed advantage. I've seen several former quarterbacks talk about this ball inflation issue. Mark Brunell went on and on about how much of an advantage it was to use a ball at the low end of the inflation range. He then went on to say that he preferred his footballs to be at 13.0 psi. How can it be that he believes that a 12.5 ball is easier to throw & catch but at the same time demand that his game balls at something other than optimal? I've also heard many of former qbs claim that they never threw a ball that was below minimum pressure. Basic science tells you that in every single game where the temperature dropped 40 degrees from when the balls were measured inside the official's locker room to the end of the game that a ball below the minimum pressure was used. In order for their assertion to be true, they must not have ever played a game outside during the winter. Aaron Rodgers is on record as saying that he likes his footballs over inflated. He believes that over inflated footballs are easier for him to grip & throw. The only advantage that ball inflation provides is making that team's quarterback feel as comfortable & confident with the ball in their hands. Its just one less thing for them to worry about on game day.

If I wanted to get upset about this, it would be because the Patriots appear to have no issues pushing even the most benign of rules toward their favor. I'd have to assume that they were doing other things that when added together did give them a measurable advantage. Those fumble stats have been thoroughly discussed & debunked earlier in this thread, but if it makes you feel better, you are certainly entitled to keep on believing that the inflation pressure alone has a dramatic impact on the game. Its just not a position that most are going to ever subscribe to.

I don't think anything was debunked in this thread. That's laughable. I'm trusting 538 and its team of statisticians way more than Kool-Aid Larry, Run It Up, and palzz.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

If you believe the premise of this study, it may have had a fairly substantial effect:

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

 

[BustedKnuckles]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

well based on his stats using the deflated balls compared to the 2nd half when they were normal id say not big of an effect

 

[BigSteelThrill]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

If you believe the premise of this study, it may have had a fairly substantial effect:

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

KABOOM!

 

[cstu]

think that you're making WAY too much about the supposed advantage.

I think it is being WAY undersold.

Especially the the fumble data we have.

Good chance that the under-inflated ball made the difference between them having having home field throughout the playoffs or going on the road.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

i only brought up Jim Miller because he actually played NFL football. (my apologies if there are actually former NFL QBs in here that i am unaware of.)

it seems curious that any QBs that comment on this situation essentially laugh it off.

Guess you haven't hear Matt Hasselback's take, or Mark Brunell's.

you're correct, forgot about them.so it's about 50/50.

Yeah you wish. Congrats on finally finding someone saying what you want to hear on the night shift on Sirius on a Thursday.

Yeah, jiiim miiiiillllller is nobody and you're somebody

Ok

Of course Miller's somebody. Shall we list the credible people who think the opposite (or close to the opposite) of what Miller thinks? Will you call them nobody's?

Look...I think anyone who thinks this is a huge deal should also be pointing fingers at Brad Johnson, Aaron Rodgers, etc. and just about everyone else. But the problem for the Pats here is more complex than that, because:

(1) There are people in the league who worked for them who think they push everything regarding ethics too far (farther than anyone else)...and were not talking about people with axes to grind.

(2) Brady stirred the hornets nest by telling John Harbaugh to "know the rules" following the playoff game

(3) The Colts apparently do have an axe to grind (there are many such bad spirits b/t NFL teams, the Colts/Pats is just one of them( and

were more than happy to pick up on Harbaugh's heads-up to them and pounce on it,

(4) Number 1-3 above are not big deals really...where this thing went off the rails is when the media, who is always starving for a he-said/she-said type of controversy, dared Brady to up the stakes and dig in with denials instead of taking responsibility for his general role in a minor violation. Brady stupidly took the bait and dug in. That's where the problem or the Pats got worse to the point of making Miller's comments about the deflation pretty much irrelevant.

This is not at all analogous to what Aaron Rodgers did, or does. The NFL does not require teams to submit balls to the refs which are properly inflated. A team can submit the ball in any condition, inflation-wise, it desires. the refs then bring the balls into compliance and trust the general integrity of the teams to not tamper with them after the proper adjustment. It was inconceivable to the league that anyone would be so petty and disrespectful of the game, and have so little honor that they would then sneak access to the balls and bring them out of compliance. It was also, inconceivable that someone would conspire to do so over time. I mean really, who would sell their honor so cheaply, only a person without honor.

Aaron Rodgers had his balls submitted on the high-side, legally, knowing that the refs would then bring them into compliance on the high side of legal. He was forthright about his desires, never lying or covering up his allowed activity. Once the balls were set by the refs he did not engage in subsequently bringing them out of compliance. He did not reward folks who did so, and he did not lie about any of this.

One of these players engaged in impermissible activity seeking to cheat the game for advantage, yes small advantage, but advantage nonetheless in what we call a game of inches. He then lied and covered up his dishonorable behavior, further disgracing himself. The other, the guy with big man hands, he, in regards to this matter, was forthright, honorable, and within the rules of the game.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So once the Patriots got to start deciding on balls and having their team involved with the process...

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Rates-Compared-Graph-1.png

 

[massraider]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

well based on his stats using the deflated balls compared to the 2nd half when they were normal id say not big of an effect

What about in a one score game the previous week?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Anyone have video of the duck Brady lost complete control of in the early 2nd half of the AFCCG? IIRC Edelman happened to be in the right place and made the catch, but the pass completely slipped out of Brady's hand.

 

[cstu]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

well based on his stats using the deflated balls compared to the 2nd half when they were normal id say not big of an effect

One half AT HOME versus a 16 game season.

If cheating helps them win two extra games a season that gives them home field advantage in the playoffs.

 

[cstu]

So once the Patriots got to start deciding on balls and having their team involved with the process...

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Rates-Compared-Graph-1.png

No wonder Belichick got so pissed at Ridley's fumbles - "There's not even air in the ####ing ball, Stevan!"

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think it's only fair that Brady be suspended for the opener in the interest of competitive balance and fairness/reciprocity. Everyone knows that the traitorous LeGarrette Blount TRICKED LeVeon Bell into smoking weed last season knowing he'd be suspended for this game and that Blount would be with the Pats. The whole mid-season heel turn and defection to the Patriots was ripped directly from the WWE script book. Even for Belichick, this is some diabolical ####.

 

[rockaction]

think that you're making WAY too much about the supposed advantage. No way did I say that.

I think it is being WAY undersold.

Especially the the fumble data we have.

Good chance that the under-inflated ball made the difference between them having having home field throughout the playoffs or going on the road.

Had to fix this.

 

[rockaction]

Ironically, the only hope the Patriots have is that the NFL actually glosses over the real story and clings to the narrative it'd like the public to believe; namely, that the deflation of the balls meant little to the actual determination of the outcome of the game.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I think it's only fair that Brady be suspended for the opener in the interest of competitive balance and fairness/reciprocity. Everyone knows that the traitorous LeGarrette Blount TRICKED LeVeon Bell into smoking weed last season knowing he'd be suspended for this game and that Blount would be with the Pats. The whole mid-season heel turn and defection to the Patriots was ripped directly from the WWE script book. Even for Belichick, this is some diabolical ####.

Not since the heyday of Bobbie "the Brain" Heenan have we seen such a mastermind at work. A diabolical, master of the craft of cheating.

 

[moleculo]

actually, this was probably a smaller job.

I'd imagine they got paid the big bucks by big tobacco to show us second hand smoke is harmless.

That's what you guys are going with? I mean, I knew you would attack the source without considering the merits of the report, but I figured you would focus on them having an office in NYC and are therefore salty Jet or Giant fans.

I don't know who these 'you guys' are supposed to be --- I'm one person, and I referenced the los angeles times.

but I guess there are pats fans all over the world, considering how awesome they are.

According to the Los Angeles Times, "Exponent's research has come under fire from critics, including engineers, attorneys and academics who say the company tends to deliver to clients the reports they need to mount a public defense."

In 2009, the Amazon Defense Coalition criticized an Exponent study commissioned by the energy company Chevron that dumping oil waste didn't cause cancer because Chevron's largest shareholder was a director on Exponent's board. Exponent "doubted" the director knew of the study. Controversially, Exponent research argued that secondhand smoke does not cause cancer. The firm was also criticized for assisting industry efforts to reduce chromium regulation.

....

"The first thing you know is that when Exponent is brought in to help a company, that company is in big trouble,"

<--- edit

Does any of this matter, once the text messages come into play?

of all the reputable, legit, neutral people they could have hired for this, they chose some shady firm best known for manufacturing whatever desired results you might be looking for?

no, why would that matter?

The article does not say that they are a shady firm, it says that paid mouthpieces, like attorneys and their consulting engineers from the losing side in legal and advocacy battles would like you to believe so, yet if they could in any way prove that this is so the firm would not be allowed to present evidence in court.

It is amazing how insightful and critical you are on Taintriots criticism, yet you will accept as gospel any tripe needed to justify their ongoing and systematic culture of cheating.

thank you. I was going to comment this morning, but you beat me to the punch and likely more eloquently.

 

[GregR]

There's no way I'm searching a 155 page thread.

Who are the QBs, past and present, that inspected the balls and didn't like the "feel" of the leather so they switched em' out?

It's supposed to be these are the game balls-ya can't change them.

It would be odd that this didn't set off a radar with people like hmmm is the replacement ball tainted? but these are brand new so it's meh who cares.

People are forgetting how quirky odd, almost superstitious, quarterbacks are about the balls. 50 of us could look at 20 new balls and say they're great. Peyton or Eli could come along and say 10 stink, 5 are meh, those 5 are good. They're finding fault with brand new out of the package footballs here.

None of this is correct.

QB's are allowed to get the balls the way they want due to a rule change pushed by Brady and others. The balls need to meet some league requirements, are checked by Refs before the game, and then given the OK to be used.

Brady and his little minions appeared to then steal the balls and change them and got caught. Brady then lied his ### off, Coach Bill gave us a science report, and Kraft acted like a little baby demanding an apology for this being looked into.

Right, without Bri being more specific who he is referring to, the assumption would be the QB is engaged in deciding which group of balls are going to be given to the ref to be certified as game balls.

Not changing out balls after they have been certified.

 

[12punch]

i only brought up Jim Miller because he actually played NFL football. (my apologies if there are actually former NFL QBs in here that i am unaware of.)

it seems curious that any QBs that comment on this situation essentially laugh it off.

Guess you haven't hear Matt Hasselback's take, or Mark Brunell's.

you're correct, forgot about them.so it's about 50/50.

Yeah you wish. Congrats on finally finding someone saying what you want to hear on the night shift on Sirius on a Thursday.

Yeah, jiiim miiiiillllller is nobody and you're somebodyOk

Of course Miller's somebody. Shall we list the credible people who think the opposite (or close to the opposite) of what Miller thinks? Will you call them nobody's?

Of course not --- why would I do that?

I'd probably call them whiny dbags, hypocrites, or attention whores - depending

 

[12punch]

I think it's only fair that Brady be suspended for the opener in the interest of competitive balance and fairness/reciprocity. Everyone knows that the traitorous LeGarrette Blount TRICKED LeVeon Bell into smoking weed last season knowing he'd be suspended for this game and that Blount would be with the Pats. The whole mid-season heel turn and defection to the Patriots was ripped directly from the WWE script book. Even for Belichick, this is some diabolical ####.

Not since the heyday of Bobbie "the Brain" Heenan have we seen such a mastermind at work. A diabolical, master of the craft of cheating.

Lol

 

[12punch]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

well based on his stats using the deflated balls compared to the 2nd half when they were normal id say not big of an effect

What about in a one score game the previous week?

What about in a one score game the following 2 weeks?

 

[massraider]

What about in a one score game the following 2 weeks?

Now you're getting it.

Who knows how much they would have won by if Tom had his special, soft and fluffy balls?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

Honestly, how do we really know how big an affect it may have had in games previous to this?

well based on his stats using the deflated balls compared to the 2nd half when they were normal id say not big of an effect

What about in a one score game the previous week?

What about in a one score game the following 2 weeks?

They would have been even higher?

 

[The General]

So does everyone agree that Pats did something against rules at this point?

Is that why there is all the discussion about did the deflated balls actually impact the game?

 

[massraider]

Bringing up the Super Bowl is a good point.

Malcolm Butler talked about how the coaches warned him about the rub routes on the goalline, the pick play. He specifically jumped that route because he was brilliantly coached to do so. One coaching factor decided the game-winning play.

We should be marveling at that. Instead, we are left to wonder if they got to that point because of cheating.

 

[GoBirds]

...and this is only what you have been busted for, imagine how many things you have gotten away with.

But Jim Miller!

 

[massraider]

Arguing about the effect the cheating had is really a red herring.

We will never have any way of knowing how much it would or would not have affected the Patriots' record. Because they cheated. So we'll never know if they would have won on a level playing field. Someone saying it made no difference has as much to back them up as someone saying they wouldn't have beaten the Ravens.

 

[The General]

Bringing up the Super Bowl is a good point.

Malcolm Butler talked about how the coaches warned him about the rub routes on the goalline, the pick play. He specifically jumped that route because he was brilliantly coached to do so. One coaching factor decided the game-winning play.

We should be marveling at that. Instead, we are left to wonder if they got to that point because of cheating.

This is all part of what makes Bill an all time great. Attention to every minute detail of the game.

 

[massraider]

Jim Miller: Hey, I could throw bad passes with a Nerf football, don't tell me it makes a difference.

 

[12punch]

Bringing up the Super Bowl is a good point.

Malcolm Butler talked about how the coaches warned him about the rub routes on the goalline, the pick play. He specifically jumped that route because he was brilliantly coached to do so. One coaching factor decided the game-winning play.

We should be marveling at that. Instead, we are left to wonder if they got to that point because of cheating.

Maybe I got something mixed up -- massraider = you live over there?

And you are completely oblivious to anybody talking about the butler play?

Is ignorance really bliss like everybody says?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

this is the equivalent of deciding during rush hour to drive down the breakdown lane ....a dumb decision ...made even dumber after getting caught....but nobody got hurt and its not a big deal...pay a fine and dont do it again

No, this is the equivalent of being in a competition to get from point A to point B during rush hour, agreeing to abide by the rules of the road, conspiring with others to keep the breakdown lane clear, paying them for their efforts in doing so, and then using that lane to try to gain an advantage in the race, and afterwards lying through your teeth about it.

Keep working, you will get the hang of analogies in time. They can be tricky.

well the way people are acting you would think that the person in the breakdown lane was intentionally running into cars and hitting pedestrians while using the breakdown lane....look...im a Raiders fan living in New England so i am kind of stuck in the middle....i just see people way over reacting to a story that really isnt as bad as people are acting like it is...its like they are taking that AH - HA moment to the highest point and screaming GUILTY ...HANG THEM ALLLLLLLL. ....it was a dumb move that really didnt seem to help tom brady at all....am i missing where its been proven they did this in many other games ? That seems to be the tone being set here

 

[AngryPatriot]

This is the biggest witch hunt since Salem, a complete waste of time because it's irrelevant. Rodgers likes his ball maxed out, Brady like his on the lowest end. Brady has said this.. Did Brady ever tell them to go below the legal limit? I haven't seen that anywhere… If the balls are at the bottom of the limit then they could slip below for various reasons. The fine for this terrible and unspeakable act is 25K, per NFL rules. Move on. The NFL is a joke onto itself in some ways. They bury their own best player and face of the NFL. Tom Brady is a man of integrity, always was and always will be, Haters will hate- because they are pathetic, small people.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

 

[rockaction]

AngryPatriot from Western MASS has spoken. Time to go home, boys.

 

[massraider]

Bringing up the Super Bowl is a good point.

Malcolm Butler talked about how the coaches warned him about the rub routes on the goalline, the pick play. He specifically jumped that route because he was brilliantly coached to do so. One coaching factor decided the game-winning play.

We should be marveling at that. Instead, we are left to wonder if they got to that point because of cheating.

Maybe I got something mixed up -- massraider = you live over there?

And you are completely oblivious to anybody talking about the butler play?

Is ignorance really bliss like everybody says?

I'm from there, and live in NYC. Everyone I grew up with and my family=Patriots fans (they are hating me on Facebook at the moment).

I know how much they talked about that. The fact that I know that specific story without looking it up makes that plain.

My belief is that Belichick is the best coach since Bill Walsh. I think SpyGate and Ballghazi have done enough to put doubt in people's mind, and really tarnishes the accomplishments of a great team. Not enough for people to not consider them a great team, but maybe put them a notch below the 90's Cowboys, and the great 49er teams.

I also think if I was a Pats fan, I'd say, "Sorry, I can't hear you, I have 4 Super Bowl rings stuck in my ears."

If I was a Pats fan, I'd think, yeah, they probably cheated. And I don't care. Beats being a Raiders/Bills/Dolphins/Vikings/Bears/etc. fan.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

This is the biggest witch hunt since Salem, a complete waste of time because it's irrelevant. Rodgers likes his ball maxed out, Brady like his on the lowest end. Brady has said this.. Did Brady ever tell them to go below the legal limit? I haven't seen that anywhere… If the balls are at the bottom of the limit then they could slip below for various reasons. The fine for this terrible and unspeakable act is 25K, per NFL rules. Move on. The NFL is a joke onto itself in some ways. They bury their own best player and face of the NFL. Tom Brady is a man of integrity, always was and always will be, Haters will hate- because they are pathetic, small people.

Ah, the oft repeated, and inaccurate argument meant to minimize. No the fine is not $25,000. The minimal fine, the floor on fines in this matter is $25,000. The upper end, and the appropriate range depending on aggravating factors and compromising the integrity of the game is open to the discretion of the league.

As to Brady's integrity, he sold it, and the price he himself put on it was to gain, in the words of Pats apologists, an insignificant advantage. To sell one's honor for an insignificant amount is derision worthy.

 

[Tango]

This is the biggest witch hunt since Salem, a complete waste of time because it's irrelevant. Rodgers likes his ball maxed out, Brady like his on the lowest end. Brady has said this.. Did Brady ever tell them to go below the legal limit? I haven't seen that anywhere… If the balls are at the bottom of the limit then they could slip below for various reasons. The fine for this terrible and unspeakable act is 25K, per NFL rules. Move on. The NFL is a joke onto itself in some ways. They bury their own best player and face of the NFL. Tom Brady is a man of integrity, always was and always will be, Haters will hate- because they are pathetic, small people.

Agree with a lot of this, but Brady blew it.

He was dared to dig in and deny by the media in order to avoid a little pain back in January and he stupidly took the bait.

At this point Brady has no one to blame but himself for this mess. He had a chance to minimize it, decided to fight instead, and he lost....big time.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This is the biggest witch hunt since Salem, a complete waste of time because it's irrelevant. Rodgers likes his ball maxed out, Brady like his on the lowest end. Brady has said this.. Did Brady ever tell them to go below the legal limit? I haven't seen that anywhere… If the balls are at the bottom of the limit then they could slip below for various reasons. The fine for this terrible and unspeakable act is 25K, per NFL rules. Move on. The NFL is a joke onto itself in some ways. They bury their own best player and face of the NFL. Tom Brady is a man of integrity, always was and always will be, Haters will hate- because they are pathetic, small people.

The guy named AngryPatriot is making some pretty thoughtful, unbiased points here.

 

[Faust]

Agent explains why Tom Brady didn't give texts, emails to Ted Wells

 

[massraider]

This is the biggest witch hunt since Salem, a complete waste of time because it's irrelevant. Rodgers likes his ball maxed out, Brady like his on the lowest end. Brady has said this.. Did Brady ever tell them to go below the legal limit? I haven't seen that anywhere… If the balls are at the bottom of the limit then they could slip below for various reasons. The fine for this terrible and unspeakable act is 25K, per NFL rules. Move on. The NFL is a joke onto itself in some ways. They bury their own best player and face of the NFL. Tom Brady is a man of integrity, always was and always will be, Haters will hate- because they are pathetic, small people.

The guy named AngryPatriot is making some pretty thoughtful, unbiased points here.

 

[Faust]

Yes, It’s a Big Deal

 

[Lehigh98]

This is the biggest witch hunt since Salem, a complete waste of time because it's irrelevant. Rodgers likes his ball maxed out, Brady like his on the lowest end. Brady has said this.. Did Brady ever tell them to go below the legal limit? I haven't seen that anywhere… If the balls are at the bottom of the limit then they could slip below for various reasons. The fine for this terrible and unspeakable act is 25K, per NFL rules. Move on. The NFL is a joke onto itself in some ways. They bury their own best player and face of the NFL. Tom Brady is a man of integrity, always was and always will be, Haters will hate- because they are pathetic, small people.

Reporter: "Is Tom Brady a cheater?'

TB: "I don't believe so."

:eyeroll:

 

[Run It Up]

Hey! You guys leave Gronk out of this... he has the mind of a child.

 

[Tango]

Another good one from Florio. This one about the agent's silliness:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/08/yee-continues-to-spread-misinformation-about-deflategate/

 

[AngryPatriot]

Surely he could've handled it better but the majority of current media feels it's their job to inflame, create negativity, increase exposure and ratings. Too many people get completely suckered in by this, mole hills become mountains.

 

[Run It Up]

Gotta burn the witch.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

OTL: Brady and A-Rod's intersectionAfter the release of the Wells report, Tom Brady finds himself in a similar spot as Alex Rodriguez: facing public scrutiny for accusations of rules breaking to gain an advantage. Outside the Lines examines their legacies at 2 p.m. ET on ESPN.

Salt, I would like you to meet Wound.

 

[Itchy Amos]

I still don't see deflated balls as anything but a very big competitive advantage to the Patriots, as many former football players have stated and that the Patriots fumble stats bear out. I'm already tired of the media narrative about cooperation and power and precedent.

It affected the games, dammit. It's easier to grip and hold. That's the most important thing here. It's also likely that if it didn't affect the games, there'd be no reason to do it. Aside from the sliver of possibility that it was mere superstition on his end, he obviously got an advantage out of the deflated balls -- otherwise it wouldn't have been a big deal to him.

I think that you - as a fan of an opposing team - have every right to revel in the Patriots bismirchment of their legacy. As a Patriots fan, I'm disgusted that they continually find themselves at the center of controversy. I also think that you're making WAY too much about the supposed advantage. I've seen several former quarterbacks talk about this ball inflation issue. Mark Brunell went on and on about how much of an advantage it was to use a ball at the low end of the inflation range. He then went on to say that he preferred his footballs to be at 13.0 psi. How can it be that he believes that a 12.5 ball is easier to throw & catch but at the same time demand that his game balls at something other than optimal? I've also heard many of former qbs claim that they never threw a ball that was below minimum pressure. Basic science tells you that in every single game where the temperature dropped 40 degrees from when the balls were measured inside the official's locker room to the end of the game that a ball below the minimum pressure was used. In order for their assertion to be true, they must not have ever played a game outside during the winter. Aaron Rodgers is on record as saying that he likes his footballs over inflated. He believes that over inflated footballs are easier for him to grip & throw. The only advantage that ball inflation provides is making that team's quarterback feel as comfortable & confident with the ball in their hands. Its just one less thing for them to worry about on game day.

If I wanted to get upset about this, it would be because the Patriots appear to have no issues pushing even the most benign of rules toward their favor. I'd have to assume that they were doing other things that when added together did give them a measurable advantage. Those fumble stats have been thoroughly discussed & debunked earlier in this thread, but if it makes you feel better, you are certainly entitled to keep on believing that the inflation pressure alone has a dramatic impact on the game. Its just not a position that most are going to ever subscribe to.

I don't think anything was debunked in this thread. That's laughable. I'm trusting 538 and its team of statisticians way more than Kool-Aid Larry, Run It Up, and palzz.

Yeah, "thoroughly debunked" is definitely the wrong phrase. I was wrong there, but 538 does refer to the initial analysis as "much maligned" and provides links to the most significant counter point articles. Most -if not all- of those articles have merit and show that the Sharp analysis has some significant issues.

In any event, it looks like some members of the Patriots cheated - which means that "The Patriots" cheated. It may have had a huge effect. It may have had a minor effect. We'll never know for sure but you're certainly free to believe whatever scenario makes you the happiest in that regard. Whatever the Patriots get in the way of fines, suspensions & the loss of draft picks is fine with me. They have it coming to them. Even if Belichick didn't know what was going on, the NFL can and should punish him as well since its all happening under his watch.

 

[Pots]

This reminds me of people arguing how Barry Bonds would still be a Hall of Famer without taking steroids, so it's not a big deal. The sad thing is, we'll never know. We do know that MANY football games are decided by 1-2 plays, and that deflating the football to Brady's preferred liking could have helped him make at least 1-2 plays. It's not just about the AFC championship game where they got caught red handed, the texts clearly show what we all suspected, that it's been happening for a long time. The Pats legacy will forever be tarnished based upon multiple cheating practices found throughout the years.