Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[cstu]

So what happened - Belichick couldn't win in Cleveland so he decided to go all out cheating?

 

[Jercules]

Sean Sullivan, the Colts equipment manager, sent the following email to Grigson, who forwarded it to the NFL the day before the championship game:

As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that

after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game

usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because

their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great

if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on

so that they don‟t get an illegal advantage.

first of all, the fact that Sullivan knew exactly what was happening is curious. The fact that this was written prior to the AFCCG lends credence to me that (1) this actually happened and (2) this has been a recurring event.

it's also curious that "it's well known around the league". if that's true, why has this not been addressed prior? Why would the NFL not deal with this like they did the last time someone snitched on them - that is, send out a memorandum explicitly saying not to do that?

It also begs question into what Belichick actually knew. Does anyone find it plausible that Belichick was unaware of some fact pertaining to his team that was "well known around the league"?

This plays into what I suggested, which was no one gave a damn about football pressure before until the AFCCG. It sounds like a lot of QBs had things done to footballs over the years that didn't fully adhere to the rules. It also sounds like the officials were exceedingly lax in their inspection of the footballs (and it sounds like some games footballs may not have been inspected at all). To be clear, messing with the footballs after they were inspected is a different level of breaking the rules than just having a ball boy give refs footballs that were over or under inflated, more scuffed than they were allowed, etc.

In the Wells report several refs testified that the game balls are often left unattended in what is essentially a public area for 15-20 minutes while they're on the field doing their pregame.

While the refs said it was verboten for a team employee to take the game balls to the field unescorted, many of the Gillette security people said they saw McNally take them on his own fairly often.

Then you've got some refs checking the balls with their own gauges, while others use the team gauges, and others delegate the task to someone else, and nobody ever bothers recording anything.

Then you have Brady complaining of 'big' balls in October vs. the Jets, and the ball guy the next day checking them and finding them to have been overinflated by the refs (one to 16 psi, apparently).

The rule itself about 12.5-13.5 psi has been on the books since the 1940's, and has never been reviewed by the competition committee or anything. Those numbers aren't sacrosanct.

Put all this together, and yeah, I think it's pretty obvious nobody really gave a crap about ball inflation until now.

 

[cstu]

So you defense is...we cheat, get over it? Nice.

 

[randall146]

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Sports Illustrated's legal expert Michael McCann sees the following as an outcome:

- Pats keep their SB title as there is nothing in the rules that allows Goodell to vacate their title.

- Pats keep all their draft picks and end up only with a fine.

- While not stated in the article, no penalties for Belichick (one would assume that McCann would have indicated if he expected any).

- Brady would face a minimal suspension "given that Brady himself is not accused of breaking the (ball tampering) rule, it seems unlikely that Brady would face an expensive fine or a suspension of more than one game. He would also have the ability to appeal any suspension."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/06/nfl-deflategate-wells-report-legal-analysis

4 games for texting. 1 game for tampering with equipment to gain a competitive advantage in multiple games.

Yeah, I don't see that happening.

 

[MG345]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

 

[BustedKnuckles]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

so why use the words more probable than not?

 

[MG345]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

so why use the words more probable than not?

Because that is the NFL's standard of proof in this situation. This has literally been gone over dozens of times in this thread alone. At this point, you are just hiding your head in the sand if you don't get what those words mean. It is the same level of proof necessary in the overwhelming majority of civil cases in the US.

 

[moleculo]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

so why use the words more probable than not?

Because that is the NFL's standard of proof in this situation. This has literally been gone over dozens of times in this thread alone. At this point, you are just hiding your head in the sand if you don't get what those words mean. It is the same level of proof necessary in the overwhelming majority of civil cases in the US.

there's a whole nother thread on the subject.

 

[thatguy]

This whole idea that this is one big witch hunt perpetrated by the NFL to assassinate Brady's character is absurd. They hired an independent firm to do the investigation, so as to allay any suspicion of pro-Brady or pro-Patriots bias by the public at large. They were fully hoping and expecting, I'm sure, that the findings would completely exonerate Brady. The issue they are now staring at is the last thing they wanted. Brady looking bad, facing possible suspension, is terrible for the NFL. No successful corporation would intentionally put itself in the lose-lose situation the NFL is now forced to deal with. Simply put, this is a nightmare scenario for the NFL-- the absolute worst possible position for it to be in. Yet some are suggesting that they knowingly and wilfully brought this upon themselves. Please.

 

[moleculo]

Jercules now in the running for that award we discussed earlier. Anybody delusional enough to think that the other 31 fan bases think this is okay is the saltiest of trolls.

I mean, theres a 5000 response thread on /r/NFL, where most people are discussing the Wells report in a reasonable manner. Fans from all 32 teams talking about how little actual depth there is to the report and how much of an obvious slant there is.

But, thats just 5000 nerds over at reddit.

link?

not trying to be a #### here, I don't do the reddit. Can you link me to folks talking how little depth there is?

 

[Bayhawks]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

so why use the words more probable than not?

Because that is the terminology the NFL uses. Just like when in a criminal case, a person is found "not guilty" rather than "innocent." That is the proper terminology in that arena, just as this the proper terminology in this instance.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

so why use the words more probable than not?

Because that is the terminology the NFL uses. Just like when in a criminal case, a person is found "not guilty" rather than "innocent." That is the proper terminology in that arena, just as this the proper terminology in this instance.

then why not just say he is guilty

 

[MG345]

now THIS is funny

What's funny is how many people don't understand the ramifications of the ruling.

whats funny is people hanging onto the word probably like its a life preserver in the middle of the ocean

First off, it wasn't "probably" it was "more probable than not" and those words effectively mean that the evidence meets the standard of proof needed to deem them guilty. Have fun willfully ignoring the rest of the report because you think the ruling wasn't definitive.

Here we go:

Penalties for Unfair Acts


The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.

So what game would it be appropriate to reverse the result of? The Superbowl, that they won with clean hands, or the AFC Championship, that they dominated after "the extraordinary event" was discovered?

Their whole 2014 season. I am not saying it is going to happen, but the commissioner absolutely has the ability to go back and overturn the outcome of their games, which was the point I was making (that Anarchy's source was incorrect).

so why use the words more probable than not?

Because that is the terminology the NFL uses. Just like when in a criminal case, a person is found "not guilty" rather than "innocent." That is the proper terminology in that arena, just as this the proper terminology in this instance.

then why not just say he is guilty

Are you serious right now?

 

[BroadwayG]

then why not just say he is guilty

They so far only collected and presented evidence. Once the lifetime bans and vacated Super Bowls are announced, consider that the guilty verdict.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

im always serious ...im one of the most serious people i know ...seriously

 

[MG345]

then why not just say he is guilty

They so far only collected and presented evidence. Once the lifetime bans and vacated Super Bowls are announced, consider that the guilty verdict.

Uh...no. The ruling was the guilty verdict. What remains to be seen is the punishment/sentencing.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

 

[MG345]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

 

[12punch]

Jercules now in the running for that award we discussed earlier. Anybody delusional enough to think that the other 31 fan bases think this is okay is the saltiest of trolls.

I mean, theres a 5000 response thread on /r/NFL, where most people are discussing the Wells report in a reasonable manner. Fans from all 32 teams talking about how little actual depth there is to the report and how much of an obvious slant there is.But, thats just 5000 nerds over at reddit.

Meanwhile the same 4 or 5 whiny tools over here posting here 5000x.

DAT fbg experience

 

[The General]

Jercules now in the running for that award we discussed earlier. Anybody delusional enough to think that the other 31 fan bases think this is okay is the saltiest of trolls.

I mean, theres a 5000 response thread on /r/NFL, where most people are discussing the Wells report in a reasonable manner. Fans from all 32 teams talking about how little actual depth there is to the report and how much of an obvious slant there is.But, thats just 5000 nerds over at reddit.

Meanwhile the same 4 or 5 whiny tools over here posting here 5000x.

DAT fbg experience

Whiny tools = anyone who questions the bull#### Pats do.

 

[rockaction]

Jercules now in the running for that award we discussed earlier. Anybody delusional enough to think that the other 31 fan bases think this is okay is the saltiest of trolls.

I mean, theres a 5000 response thread on /r/NFL, where most people are discussing the Wells report in a reasonable manner. Fans from all 32 teams talking about how little actual depth there is to the report and how much of an obvious slant there is.But, thats just 5000 nerds over at reddit.

Meanwhile the same 4 or 5 whiny tools over here posting here 5000x.

DAT fbg experience

Whiny tools = anyone who questions the bull#### Pats do.

I'm sure that if 12punch left to go to reddit, the quality of the comments here would see a sharp drop in quality.

 

[MG345]

Jercules now in the running for that award we discussed earlier. Anybody delusional enough to think that the other 31 fan bases think this is okay is the saltiest of trolls.

I mean, theres a 5000 response thread on /r/NFL, where most people are discussing the Wells report in a reasonable manner. Fans from all 32 teams talking about how little actual depth there is to the report and how much of an obvious slant there is.But, thats just 5000 nerds over at reddit.

Meanwhile the same 4 or 5 whiny tools over here posting here 5000x.

DAT fbg experience

Whiny tools = anyone who questions the bull#### Pats do.

Whiney tools = salty haters.

 

[rockaction]

How does one search for posts in a thread by number?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

 

[moleculo]

Jercules now in the running for that award we discussed earlier. Anybody delusional enough to think that the other 31 fan bases think this is okay is the saltiest of trolls.

I mean, theres a 5000 response thread on /r/NFL, where most people are discussing the Wells report in a reasonable manner. Fans from all 32 teams talking about how little actual depth there is to the report and how much of an obvious slant there is.But, thats just 5000 nerds over at reddit.

Meanwhile the same 4 or 5 whiny tools over here posting here 5000x.

DAT fbg experience

Whiny tools = anyone who questions the bull#### Pats do.

Whiney tools = salty haters.

come on guys. Much like the phrase "more likely than not" has a special meaning in legal parlance, "whiny tools" has a special meaning within footballguys.

 

[The General]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

If it's no big deal why are the Pats sticking with this line that they didn't do anything and it was just atmospheric conditions that changed the balls.

 

[BroadwayG]

then why not just say he is guilty

They so far only collected and presented evidence. Once the lifetime bans and vacated Super Bowls are announced, consider that the guilty verdict.

Uh...no. The ruling was the guilty verdict. What remains to be seen is the punishment/sentencing.

Prosecutors present evidence, not verdicts.

 

[MG345]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

If it's no big deal why are the Pats sticking with this line that they didn't do anything and it was just atmospheric conditions that changed the balls.

who said that didnt play any role at all?

 

[MG345]

then why not just say he is guilty

They so far only collected and presented evidence. Once the lifetime bans and vacated Super Bowls are announced, consider that the guilty verdict.

Uh...no. The ruling was the guilty verdict. What remains to be seen is the punishment/sentencing.

Prosecutors present evidence, not verdicts.

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

 

[The General]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

If it's no big deal why are the Pats sticking with this line that they didn't do anything and it was just atmospheric conditions that changed the balls.

who said that didnt play any role at all?

The Pats are saying that is all that happened nothing else.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

 

[franchise punter]

They have been accused of placing a jumbotron where only their team could see it to decide if they should challenge plays or not.

I must have missed this. How the hell does only one team have access to viewing a freaking jumbotron in an NFL stadium?

 

[BroadwayG]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

 

[MG345]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

Again, you miss the point, willfully. It doesn't matter that "everyone cheats" it matters who is caught. It doesn't matter that this particular incident is a minor one, because it is just one piece in a long line of cheating. Anyway, I can flip your logic back around on you: if it IS such a minor thing, why the cover up? Why the stonewalling? If this is so minor, Brady and company could have easily just fessed up and moved on. Obviously the Patriots realized how serious it was by their attempts to get out from under it.

 

[cstu]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

See my sig - the big issue is not the cheating but the lying about it. Brady soiled his career because he couldn't admit to liking his balls with less air in them.

 

[MG345]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

 

[BroadwayG]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

Is that a Yes or a No?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

Of course. The league has already found them "guilty." (Not the correct terminology, but you get the idea).

 

[MG345]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

Is that a Yes or a No?

If you read what I wrote, then it is obvious. They have ALREADY been deemed guilty. So regardless of what happens at this point, they are guilty going forward. The only mitigating thing would be if the NFL says the conclusion of the report was verifiable false. Take that however you will, for your loaded hypothetical question.

If the league hands down ANY form of punishment, will you consider them innocent?

 

[BroadwayG]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

Is that a Yes or a No?

If you read what I wrote, then it is obvious. They have ALREADY been deemed guilty. So regardless of what happens at this point, they are guilty going forward. The only mitigating thing would be if the NFL says the conclusion of the report was verifiable false. Take that however you will, for your loaded hypothetical question.

If the league hands down ANY form of punishment, will you consider them innocent?

No, of course not, because the league is who determines guilt.

 

[GregR]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

Again, you miss the point, willfully. It doesn't matter that "everyone cheats" it matters who is caught. It doesn't matter that this particular incident is a minor one, because it is just one piece in a long line of cheating. Anyway, I can flip your logic back around on you: if it IS such a minor thing, why the cover up? Why the stonewalling? If this is so minor, Brady and company could have easily just fessed up and moved on. Obviously the Patriots realized how serious it was by their attempts to get out from under it.

Why are you wasting your time? He just said a dozen posts ago he doesn't care about the issue and just enjoys seeing people be upset. You are even still quoting it. Put him on ignore and move on.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

Again, you miss the point, willfully. It doesn't matter that "everyone cheats" it matters who is caught. It doesn't matter that this particular incident is a minor one, because it is just one piece in a long line of cheating. Anyway, I can flip your logic back around on you: if it IS such a minor thing, why the cover up? Why the stonewalling? If this is so minor, Brady and company could have easily just fessed up and moved on. Obviously the Patriots realized how serious it was by their attempts to get out from under it.

So lets say brady fesses up and says ''ya i knew about it ...I`m sorry ...ive never done it before ...it was a stupid idea that didnt even work the way i thought it would'' ...what would you do if you were the NFL commish?? I mean im hearing all sorts of crazy punishment comments ...what is the proper punishment for what he did ?

 

[MG345]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

Is that a Yes or a No?

If you read what I wrote, then it is obvious. They have ALREADY been deemed guilty. So regardless of what happens at this point, they are guilty going forward. The only mitigating thing would be if the NFL says the conclusion of the report was verifiable false. Take that however you will, for your loaded hypothetical question.

If the league hands down ANY form of punishment, will you consider them innocent?

No, of course not, because the league is who determines guilt.

So, you accept that the league's commissioned report that deems the Patriots guilty?

 

[The General]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

Again, you miss the point, willfully. It doesn't matter that "everyone cheats" it matters who is caught. It doesn't matter that this particular incident is a minor one, because it is just one piece in a long line of cheating. Anyway, I can flip your logic back around on you: if it IS such a minor thing, why the cover up? Why the stonewalling? If this is so minor, Brady and company could have easily just fessed up and moved on. Obviously the Patriots realized how serious it was by their attempts to get out from under it.

So lets say brady fesses up and says ''ya i knew about it ...I`m sorry ...ive never done it before ...it was a stupid idea that didnt even work the way i thought it would'' ...what would you do if you were the NFL commish?? I mean im hearing all sorts of crazy punishment comments ...what is the proper punishment for what he did ?

If he says that he's lying again because they have texts going back earlier in the season from his two equipment lackeys talking about doing this.

 

[MG345]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

Again, you miss the point, willfully. It doesn't matter that "everyone cheats" it matters who is caught. It doesn't matter that this particular incident is a minor one, because it is just one piece in a long line of cheating. Anyway, I can flip your logic back around on you: if it IS such a minor thing, why the cover up? Why the stonewalling? If this is so minor, Brady and company could have easily just fessed up and moved on. Obviously the Patriots realized how serious it was by their attempts to get out from under it.

So lets say brady fesses up and says ''ya i knew about it ...I`m sorry ...ive never done it before ...it was a stupid idea that didnt even work the way i thought it would'' ...what would you do if you were the NFL commish?? I mean im hearing all sorts of crazy punishment comments ...what is the proper punishment for what he did ?

Not taking into account reasons why we know that isn't true: The rule book says minimum of $25k, with Commish discretion on the upper levels. I could see a fine for each ball that was under PSI, and a small suspension 1-4 games. If they are handing out suspensions for texting from the sidelines, you have to figure it would be considered a bigger deal than that right?

 

[BroadwayG]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

Is that a Yes or a No?

If you read what I wrote, then it is obvious. They have ALREADY been deemed guilty. So regardless of what happens at this point, they are guilty going forward. The only mitigating thing would be if the NFL says the conclusion of the report was verifiable false. Take that however you will, for your loaded hypothetical question.

If the league hands down ANY form of punishment, will you consider them innocent?

No, of course not, because the league is who determines guilt.

So, you accept that the league's commissioned report that deems the Patriots guilty?

No, I accept the report deems the Patriots more likely than not are guilty of at least being somewhat aware they may or may not have been involved in actions that were against the rules.

 

[MG345]

Funny thing is i couldn't care less about this whole fiasco....i just enjoy watching people get so upset over something that's inconsequential in the grand scheme of things

Systematic cheating and covering it up is inconsequential to the NFL?

this is why they dont condemn people to death for misdemeanors...its not so much what hes being accused of ....it is the overreaction by the fans on here and elsewhere ...air... lmao

You miss the point. It isn't the individual act, it is the blatant and repeated disregard for the rules. McNally and the Patriots already got in trouble for sneaking in practice balls rather than game balls, in 2004, and were told that ANY other similar incident would reap heavy consequences. That is not even taking into account SpyGate. At a certain point you can't just keep going, LOL AIR, you have to look at the whole entire picture...which is that the Patriots are cheaters, and they are going to continue to cheat until the league does something so drastic that they actually FEAR the consequences.

c'mon man ...everyone cheats at one point or another ...just not everyone gets caught...arent we a higher than thou species lol....to me its the level of cheating that counts...smashing a figure skaters knee apart to knock them out of a competition is the type of cheating that deserves the ranting and lynch mob mentality displayed here...preferring a ball with a little less air in it just doesn't seem like a big deal...sorry

Again, you miss the point, willfully. It doesn't matter that "everyone cheats" it matters who is caught. It doesn't matter that this particular incident is a minor one, because it is just one piece in a long line of cheating. Anyway, I can flip your logic back around on you: if it IS such a minor thing, why the cover up? Why the stonewalling? If this is so minor, Brady and company could have easily just fessed up and moved on. Obviously the Patriots realized how serious it was by their attempts to get out from under it.

Why are you wasting your time? He just said a dozen posts ago he doesn't care about the issue and just enjoys seeing people be upset. You are even still quoting it. Put him on ignore and move on.

Because ultimately, I don't care either. I just like talking about the subject, and enjoy proving people wrong

 

[MG345]

From my understanding, the commission is not prosecuting anyone, because they are not in court. The commission was hired to rule on whether the Patriots cheated, which they came to the conclusion that the did "more probable than not". The only thing left is Troy Vincent decides to do as punishment. If you have a verifiable source that proves different, I would love to see it, so as not to be misleading anyone.

If there is no punishment would you still consider them guilty?

This is the same type of talk that happened 100 pages ago. If the league decides to say something along the lines of "based on the report, we find that the actions taken by Brady, McNally, and Jastremski to be minor in nature and gave them no competitive advantage, therefore we are not assessing any punishment" that doesn't mean that they aren't guilty. That just means the NFL doesn't find the actions they are guilty of to be worth punishing. I highly doubt Troy Vincent or Goodell are going to come out and say "You know that company we hired to do all that testing, and the investigators we hired to figure all this stuff, taking 100 days to come to an informed conclusion? We don't believe them, the Patriots are innocent!"

Is that a Yes or a No?

If you read what I wrote, then it is obvious. They have ALREADY been deemed guilty. So regardless of what happens at this point, they are guilty going forward. The only mitigating thing would be if the NFL says the conclusion of the report was verifiable false. Take that however you will, for your loaded hypothetical question.

If the league hands down ANY form of punishment, will you consider them innocent?

No, of course not, because the league is who determines guilt.

So, you accept that the league's commissioned report that deems the Patriots guilty?

No, I accept the report deems the Patriots more likely than not are guilty of at least being somewhat aware they may or may not have been involved in actions that were against the rules.

That's not what the report says, and that is not what the ruling means. Being willfully ignorant of the terminology being used doesn't give you the ability to ignore the consequence and ramifications of said terminology. To put it short, you are wrong and on the wrong side of the argument.