Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)

[massraider]

I think we should start talking about the real important thing here: Why does this rule even exist?

In this article http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25182370/dwight-clark-kindly-asks-you-not-compare-tom-brady-to-joe-Montana

Joe Montana, himself, calls it a stupid rule because all QBs have different grips and different preferences for the football and he says we would see the NFL at its best if they simply allowed QBs to pick their own balls on offense.

I'd never considered that but it makes a lot of sense. Why wouldn't we want to see the best product the NFL has to offer? Making everyone play at the same standard for this piece of equipment would be akin to making everyone wear a size 12 cleat, regardless if it was the best fit for THEM or not. Do they all wear the same size jock straps, helmets, thigh pads? No.

Picking your preference of ball wouldn't hurt the other team's QB. He is going to have HIS own ball...which he practiced with HIS OWN receivers and so they will all be in sync. If there is an argument for the defense having to adjust, so be it. That IS football. You adjust to the scat back. You adjust to the Power back. The slot receiver, the 2 TEs. That IS football and I would much rather see the finest possibly tuned offense as I could (and I love defense...I just think the overall product is better when you have competent offenses).

Hi, I'm a Raiders fan. Now what I heard after the Tuck Rule game?

'Might be a dumb rule, but rules are rules. The rule was enforced correctly.'

By the way, in no way, shape, or form, is this the 'important thing here.' Are you joking around?

 

[bostonfred]

Are our resident Pat knob lickers still here?

true American heroes imo

 

[rick6668]

Ben Volin ‏@BenVolin 56s57 seconds ago
Wells said he used “more probable than not” because that’s the NFL’s standard. If he were on a jury, he would’ve checked, “guilty”

oof

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"Hello, New England Patriots."

"Hi, this is Ted Wells."

"Oh, hi."

"I'd like to schedule another meeting with Jim McNally."

"No problem. As you know, we're happy to cooperate fully with your investigation. Can I ask what this meeting is about?"

"Sure. We found some texts on his phone where referred to himself as 'The Deflator' and we were just kind of curious what was up with that."

"Uh . . . " [click]

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

My point was, if they had the phones from the other folks that were there, they would have captured Brady's communication with the people that were on the field or the locker room. Are you suggesting that Brady snuck someone into the locker room with no credentials that no one knew about and got that person all access to the field and stadium?

Nobody has more than one phone, one device, or access to others, like their spouse's. Nobody. having the Deflator's team provided phone is having access to all of his communications, clearly.

 

[12punch]

Goodell continues to be the worst Commisioner in all of sports. Let's just make #### up on the fly now.

So what Brady did was worse than commiting actual crimes? Sure that makes sense Roger.

Since when does probably having a general knowledge about something mean you did it? I'm not even a Pats fan, but this is just ridiculous. Everyone in here celebrating this is just sad. You're encouraging Lord Goodell to do whatever he pleases.

Goodell is a scumbag and can't wait until he's ousted.

I am not a fan of the Patriots either and would do anything to see them stop being so dang good.

But thinking this punishment fits the crime is beyond unreasonable.

There is no proof, and people are celebrating a punishment without proof. i am not shocked as spiteful angry people get enjoyment out of stuff like this.

all this is proof of is that there are some crappy people who live on the internet.

If by proof you mean 100% certainty then there is never proof in human endeavors. If by proof you mean evidence, well then you are wrong. There is evidence here. You may think the quanta of evidence is insufficient to reach a reliable conclusion, and you are entitled to your opinion, but there is most certainly evidence.

Nope, a report given by a person paid for by the league to come up with a certain result is not proof.

OK, but what about a report by an independent party paid to come up with an unbiased result? Because that is what the Wells report is.

WatShark pool be sharkin'

Some of you guys are like little kids who think the whole world is out to get you. For the life of me, I cannot come up with a reason why some of you think that the league was out to get the Patriots for no good reason. I have seen this asked, and have asked it myself before, but why on earth would the league want this? Their golden boy, their Champion, and arguably one of the greatest products that the league has ever produced all just got discredited. They have a Thursday Night season kickoff with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB. How does that help them? Why would they orchestrate this, as you seem to believe they did? The whole league has egg on it's face because of this. They would have been much better off "losing" the evidence like they did before...for the same organization that you seem to think they are out to get.

People hate the Pats: fans, players, owners. Goodell has 32 owners to answer to: only one of them has any interest in not vilifying New England.

Furthermore, he has an interest in making sure cheating gets punished, and because the Pats are the Pats, and their shenanigans get a much larger platform (as many here have pointed out), their punishments must likewise be larger. Simple.

No one I know hates the Pats.Pats fans are so desperate to be in the same class as Duke and the Yankees....but they're not.

Ok

 

[massraider]

Ted Wells:

I told Don Yee, he could keep the phone, and provide correspondence that was pertinent to the case, and I would take him at his word that he provided all pertinent data, and they still refused.

 

[RC94]

 

[espnespn]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"


Yeah, that's absurd.

Leave it to the Pats.

Hmmm, that part of the report seems inconsistent with Page 55 and 57 of the report? How are the balls still in the locker room without the refs there, if the balls go with the refs to the field?

"Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

"Richard Farley, who has been the NFL Security Representative for New England
for approximately twelve years and is present in the Officials Locker Room before and during
every Patriots home game, said that he considers it part of his job description to accompany the
referee to the field and that he is generally in close proximity to McNally and the game balls
when he walks to the field with the referee. According to Farley, he often opens the door to
allow McNally to exit easily with the ball bags, and then McNally, Farley, the referee and the
head linesman will walk to the field together or in close proximity to each other. Farley cannot
recall McNally previously bringing game balls to the field prior to the start of a game without
being accompanied by or in close proximity to one or more game officials."

 

[massraider]

https://twitter.com/tiffblackmon

Apparently there are four Freedom Fighters at the NFL league office now. They have handcuffed themselves together. Seriously, click that link.

 

[12punch]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

shhhh...

I know, right?

I mean... what if it was found out that Brady had confirmed the story to Bellichik prior to the "process" presser? Or that Robert Kraft knew months ago what his QB did?

Wouldn't look so hot for team denial.

"Bob, just wanted to let u know I got bird deflating a half pound of air out of the ball right now omglol!"

 

[pecorino]

Seems like an appeal makes sense if Brady allows access to his texts that he didn't before. I don't see that happening so why would the NFL feel compelled to lessen the punishment? No new information should mean an unsuccessful appeal. I, for one, would love to see Brady offer his phone evidence.

 

[12punch]

Wells also said he was never going to take anyone's phone.

He requested email and text data, which Yee could vet himself. So the previous theory that Brady was saving naughty messages or photos from his famous wife was also blown out of the water.

Brady still refused.

I still don't fully understand the texting part. With or without Brady's phone or texts, wouldn't they have shown up on twiddle dee and twiddle dum's phones anyway?

What if Tom discussed it with someone else?

My point was, if they had the phones from the other folks that were there, they would have captured Brady's communication with the people that were on the field or the locker room. Are you suggesting that Brady snuck someone into the locker room with no credentials that no one knew about and got that person all access to the field and stadium?

Brady has networked up with every stadium janitor to cover the road games

 

[IvanKaramazov]

https://twitter.com/tiffblackmon

Apparently there are four Freedom Fighters at the NFL league office now. They have handcuffed themselves together. Seriously, click that link.

Run It UpMember Since 29 Aug 2011

OFFLINE Last Active Today, 09:57 AM

 

[davearm]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

To clarify what happened (again, I am not providing an opinion, just a clarification), the Pats made a good faith effort to cooperate with the investigation. They provided the league will all sorts of video tape for on and off the field activities and from cameras inside the stadium. They presented their many employees for countless interviews (and many people did hand over their cell phones and emails). They complied with everything the league requested except for three things. They didn't hand over Brady's phone (although he apparently was interviewed for close to six and a half hours). They didn't hand over kicker Stephen Gostkowski's phone. And they did not let the league follow up with McNally again.

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

I recall reading that footage from the security cameras in/around Gillette Stadium is preserved for 10 days, then recorded over.

There was no mention in the report of any video evidence whatsoever, and I believe this is the reason... because none was made available.

 

[Jercules]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"


Yeah, that's absurd.

Leave it to the Pats.

Hmmm, that part of the report seems inconsistent with Page 55 and 57 of the report? How are the balls still in the locker room without the refs there, if the balls go with the refs to the field?

"Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

"Richard Farley, who has been the NFL Security Representative for New England
for approximately twelve years and is present in the Officials Locker Room before and during
every Patriots home game, said that he considers it part of his job description to accompany the
referee to the field and that he is generally in close proximity to McNally and the game balls
when he walks to the field with the referee. According to Farley, he often opens the door to
allow McNally to exit easily with the ball bags, and then McNally, Farley, the referee and the
head linesman will walk to the field together or in close proximity to each other. Farley cannot
recall McNally previously bringing game balls to the field prior to the start of a game without
being accompanied by or in close proximity to one or more game officials."

If you read the testimony of the security employees, they all say it was not uncommon for McNally to bring the balls to the field himself (50% of the time seems to be the general consensus figure).

I believe the officials and Farley are simply guilty of laziness. Of course, when a league-appointed investigator comes calling, they act as though the protocol is rigorously adhered to and lay it all on McNally. The bias of the Wells report is that it endeavors to soft pedal the clear nonchalance of the officials and the league when dealing with testing, certifying, and preventing anyone from tampering with game balls.

(Pretty funny that a revelation like the one I quoted above was buried in a footnote, no?)

EDIT: To answer your question, they leave for their pregame and come back, and presumably nobody wants to lug a ball bag around. Again, nonchalance.

 

[the moops]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

 

[imagroid]

I'd never considered that but it makes a lot of sense. Why wouldn't we want to see the best product the NFL has to offer? Making everyone play at the same standard for this piece of equipment would be akin to making everyone wear a size 12 cleat, regardless if it was the best fit for THEM or not. Do they all wear the same size jock straps, helmets, thigh pads? No.

One of the worst attempts at logic I can recall.

 

[massraider]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

Sure, that's why he gave himself that great nickname months before.

 

[the moops]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

Sure, that's why he gave himself that great nickname months before.

When would he have deflated them if he was never alone with the balls?

"Richard Farley, who has been the NFL Security Representative for New England
for approximately twelve years and is present in the Officials Locker Room before and during
every Patriots home game, said that he considers it part of his job description to accompany the
referee to the field and that he is generally in close proximity to McNally and the game balls
when he walks to the field with the referee. According to Farley, he often opens the door to
allow McNally to exit easily with the ball bags, and then McNally, Farley, the referee and the
head linesman will walk to the field together or in close proximity to each other. Farley cannot
recall McNally previously bringing game balls to the field prior to the start of a game without
being accompanied by or in close proximity to one or more game officials."

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

Sure, that's why he gave himself that great nickname months before.

Did we ever consider that his other job is in a priapism clinic? Maybe he is the guy one sees when they have an erection lasting 4 hours in a row or longer. Maybe his nickname does not refer to his weekend stint, but to his regular job.

 

[12punch]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewedwhen considering the potential for tampering with the game ballsalmost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"

Yeah, that's absurd.

Leave it to the Pats.

Hmmm, that part of the report seems inconsistent with Page 55 and 57 of the report? How are the balls still in the locker room without the refs there, if the balls go with the refs to the field?

"Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

"Richard Farley, who has been the NFL Security Representative for New England

for approximately twelve years and is present in the Officials Locker Room before and during

every Patriots home game, said that he considers it part of his job description to accompany the

referee to the field and that he is generally in close proximity to McNally and the game balls

when he walks to the field with the referee. According to Farley, he often opens the door to

allow McNally to exit easily with the ball bags, and then McNally, Farley, the referee and the

head linesman will walk to the field together or in close proximity to each other. Farley cannot

recall McNally previously bringing game balls to the field prior to the start of a game without

being accompanied by or in close proximity to one or more game officials."

Then how is he doing it?

 

[BroadwayG]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

 

[the moops]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

 

[BroadwayG]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

 

[Anarchy99]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

To clarify what happened (again, I am not providing an opinion, just a clarification), the Pats made a good faith effort to cooperate with the investigation. They provided the league will all sorts of video tape for on and off the field activities and from cameras inside the stadium. They presented their many employees for countless interviews (and many people did hand over their cell phones and emails). They complied with everything the league requested except for three things. They didn't hand over Brady's phone (although he apparently was interviewed for close to six and a half hours). They didn't hand over kicker Stephen Gostkowski's phone. And they did not let the league follow up with McNally again.

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

I recall reading that footage from the security cameras in/around Gillette Stadium is preserved for 10 days, then recorded over.

There was no mention in the report of any video evidence whatsoever, and I believe this is the reason... because none was made available.

This has been pretty much the only story around here, and there was discussion on radio and tv that all the footage they had was given to the league. That how they had video of the ball attendant going into a bathroom with the bag of footballs.

At least in NE the depiction that the Patriots did nothing to cooperate with the investigation is not going over well. At one point they explained everything they gave the league in terms of video, names, phones, interviews, access, etc. So on a percentage basis, they gave them 99% of what they asked for. But the report was written like the Pats refused to cooperate on anything and they withheld practically everything. If people want to write them up for withholding the most important 1% of the investigation, so be it. But the report in spots makes it sound like the Patriots slammed the door on his face and refused to let him set foot on their property.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

At least in NE the depiction that the Patriots did nothing to cooperate with the investigation is not going over well. At one point they explained everything they gave the league in terms of video, names, phones, interviews, access, etc. So on a percentage basis, they gave them 99% of what they asked for. But the report was written like the Pats refused to cooperate on anything and they withheld practically everything. If people want to write them up for withholding the most important 1% of the investigation, so be it. But the report in spots makes it sound like the Patriots slammed the door on his face and refused to let him set foot on their property.

They refused to make McNally available after they found the "Deflator" text. You don't think that's kind of a big deal?

 

[the moops]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

 

[davearm]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

To clarify what happened (again, I am not providing an opinion, just a clarification), the Pats made a good faith effort to cooperate with the investigation. They provided the league will all sorts of video tape for on and off the field activities and from cameras inside the stadium. They presented their many employees for countless interviews (and many people did hand over their cell phones and emails). They complied with everything the league requested except for three things. They didn't hand over Brady's phone (although he apparently was interviewed for close to six and a half hours). They didn't hand over kicker Stephen Gostkowski's phone. And they did not let the league follow up with McNally again.

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

I recall reading that footage from the security cameras in/around Gillette Stadium is preserved for 10 days, then recorded over.

There was no mention in the report of any video evidence whatsoever, and I believe this is the reason... because none was made available.

This has been pretty much the only story around here, and there was discussion on radio and tv that all the footage they had was given to the league. That how they had video of the ball attendant going into a bathroom with the bag of footballs.

At least in NE the depiction that the Patriots did nothing to cooperate with the investigation is not going over well. At one point they explained everything they gave the league in terms of video, names, phones, interviews, access, etc. So on a percentage basis, they gave them 99% of what they asked for. But the report was written like the Pats refused to cooperate on anything and they withheld practically everything. If people want to write them up for withholding the most important 1% of the investigation, so be it. But the report in spots makes it sound like the Patriots slammed the door on his face and refused to let him set foot on their property.

No, the report does not characterize things that way at all.

 

[Franknbeans]

I'd love to see the Patriots appeal

 

[Shutout]

I think we should start talking about the real important thing here: Why does this rule even exist?

In this article http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25182370/dwight-clark-kindly-asks-you-not-compare-tom-brady-to-joe-Montana

Joe Montana, himself, calls it a stupid rule because all QBs have different grips and different preferences for the football and he says we would see the NFL at its best if they simply allowed QBs to pick their own balls on offense.

I'd never considered that but it makes a lot of sense. Why wouldn't we want to see the best product the NFL has to offer? Making everyone play at the same standard for this piece of equipment would be akin to making everyone wear a size 12 cleat, regardless if it was the best fit for THEM or not. Do they all wear the same size jock straps, helmets, thigh pads? No.

Picking your preference of ball wouldn't hurt the other team's QB. He is going to have HIS own ball...which he practiced with HIS OWN receivers and so they will all be in sync. If there is an argument for the defense having to adjust, so be it. That IS football. You adjust to the scat back. You adjust to the Power back. The slot receiver, the 2 TEs. That IS football and I would much rather see the finest possibly tuned offense as I could (and I love defense...I just think the overall product is better when you have competent offenses).

Hi, I'm a Raiders fan. Now what I heard after the Tuck Rule game?

'Might be a dumb rule, but rules are rules. The rule was enforced correctly.'

By the way, in no way, shape, or form, is this the 'important thing here.' Are you joking around?

I'll give you the Tuck rule. You guys got screwed.

But I'm serious about the "important" thing because this investigation that cost millions as Wells said is not important. I know, some people will want to stand on their bibles and pound the words integrity and ethical down my throat but it really is...nothing. People are trying to crucify a player and a team that a lot of people love to hate over relative nothingness.

IF people want to say he cheated and cheaters are sinners and sinners need crucified, okay. You're right on the technicality because without rules there is only chaos, right? But how does a few ounces of air equate to this kind of backlash when every week (almost every PLAY) in the NFL, guys hold. Guys clip. Guys are stealing signs. Guys are tampering with Free Agents. Guys are using 1000 different substances and products that come to light about .05% of the time to get an advantage. Guys skirt the rules on proper concussion protocols. NOBODY REPORTS A FREAKING INJURY ACCURATELY. Guys try to move the ball to gain or prevent a first down. Guys try to pile on and delay a play. Guys go to a knee and fake an injury to catch a breath.

On and on and on. It is ALL cheating. But none of its is betting on the sport, illegally giving playbooks or info out (that we know about), paying refs off, etc.

It is SUCH a small, meaningless thing in the grand scheme of the sport that its stupid to waste time on it. Tennis has technology that shows the exact placement of a tennis ball moving at blazing speeds and can determine in and out of bounds. Nascar has safety protocol that saves men concussions and neck injuries while travelling at 200mph. I feel cheated that the NFL hides behind ideals that suits their best interests and pocket books instead of making the efforts to get it right on calls and safety. Those kinds of missed calls and player injuries cause much bigger outcome differences in football than any 4 ounces of air or some guy faking an injury to catch his breath ever will.

 

[The General]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

If you believe in unicorns and dragons then yes.

 

[Burl]

Wells throwing salt on the wounds. Sounds like the Pats got off easy.

These dots are not connecting in a favorable way for the Pats:

"@BenVolin: Wells said he only interviewed McNally once. And when he discovered the Deflator text, #Patriots refused to make McNally available"

Woah. Guess that explains the first round pick.

To clarify what happened (again, I am not providing an opinion, just a clarification), the Pats made a good faith effort to cooperate with the investigation. They provided the league will all sorts of video tape for on and off the field activities and from cameras inside the stadium. They presented their many employees for countless interviews (and many people did hand over their cell phones and emails). They complied with everything the league requested except for three things. They didn't hand over Brady's phone (although he apparently was interviewed for close to six and a half hours). They didn't hand over kicker Stephen Gostkowski's phone. And they did not let the league follow up with McNally again.

However, he was interviewed four times. Three by the league's security personnel and once by Wells (or his team). McNally was a part time worker who had a regular job (and had no business being at the stadium by that point), and the team opted not to have to pull him out of his job for a fifth time.

I recall reading that footage from the security cameras in/around Gillette Stadium is preserved for 10 days, then recorded over.

There was no mention in the report of any video evidence whatsoever, and I believe this is the reason... because none was made available.

This has been pretty much the only story around here, and there was discussion on radio and tv that all the footage they had was given to the league. That how they had video of the ball attendant going into a bathroom with the bag of footballs.

At least in NE the depiction that the Patriots did nothing to cooperate with the investigation is not going over well. At one point they explained everything they gave the league in terms of video, names, phones, interviews, access, etc. So on a percentage basis, they gave them 99% of what they asked for. But the report was written like the Pats refused to cooperate on anything and they withheld practically everything. If people want to write them up for withholding the most important 1% of the investigation, so be it. But the report in spots makes it sound like the Patriots slammed the door on his face and refused to let him set foot on their property.

How is it not a big deal that they refused that 1%? That's like a police investigation into a murder and getting access to the refrigerator, his cabinets with all the marshmallow cereal and his freezer to look at his wonderful stockpile of meat but then telling the police the gun safe is off limits.

 

[BroadwayG]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

Yes, he excuses himself from his escort to take a pee, then goes into the bathroom like he's been doing fro 10 years and lets some air out while the water is running.

 

[the moops]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

If you believe in unicorns and dragons then yes.

I don't believe in anything. I'm just asking because there is a quote from the security guy saying that he has zero recollection of McNally ever being alone with the balls.

 

[the moops]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

Yes, he excuses himself from his escort to take a pee, then goes into the bathroom like he's been doing fro 10 years and lets some air out while the water is running.

That would make sense. Has anyone come forward stating this though?

 

[Burl]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

Yes, he excuses himself from his escort to take a pee, then goes into the bathroom like he's been doing fro 10 years and lets some air out while the water is running.

That would make sense. Has anyone come forward stating this though?

I find it hard to believe that with the hustle and bustle of a game that anyone pays attention to the fact that a guy is going pee before a game starts. Who in their right mind is going to think..."Yep, I need to put that into my memory for later".

 

[Native]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

Yes, he excuses himself from his escort to take a pee, then goes into the bathroom like he's been doing fro 10 years and lets some air out while the water is running.

That would make sense. Has anyone come forward stating this though?

I find it hard to believe that with the hustle and bustle of a game that anyone pays attention to the fact that a guy is going pee before a game starts. Who in their right mind is going to think..."Yep, I need to put that into my memory for later".

It's all captured on video.

 

[The General]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

If you believe in unicorns and dragons then yes.

I don't believe in anything. I'm just asking because there is a quote from the security guy saying that he has zero recollection of McNally ever being alone with the balls.

Didn't me to sound like a ####. They have texts between the 2 guys early in the season and one going back to May where one of the guys calls himself "The Deflator".

 

[12punch]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

Yes, he excuses himself from his escort to take a pee, then goes into the bathroom like he's been doing fro 10 years and lets some air out while the water is running.

Ok

 

[12punch]

Then how is he doing it?

Hey guys, I'll be right back, gotta take a leak for 1:40.

Huh?

He takes them in the bathroom and locks the door.

Did you read quoted post?

Yes, he excuses himself from his escort to take a pee, then goes into the bathroom like he's been doing fro 10 years and lets some air out while the water is running.

That would make sense. Has anyone come forward stating this though?

I find it hard to believe that with the hustle and bustle of a game that anyone pays attention to the fact that a guy is going pee before a game starts. Who in their right mind is going to think..."Yep, I need to put that into my memory for later".

Is that how you remember things?

Data entry?

 

[Jercules]

So the officials Wells interviewed all claimed that it was atypical for a locker room attendant to take the balls by himself to the field.

Pages 60-61 of the Wells report:

"The Patriots produced two game-day security guards employed by Team Ops, a security and guest services company affiliated with the Patriots, to support McNally‟s account [of often taking game balls to the field by himself]. Rita Callendar, who was stationed just outside the Officials Locker Room on game day, said that she estimates that McNally takes the game balls to the field by himself roughly 50% of the time, and that the other times he walks with or in close proximity to Richard Farley. Paul Galanis, who was stationed just outside the entrance to the Patriots locker room, across the corridor from the top of the center tunnel, said that it was routine for McNally to walk to the field with the game balls unaccompanied. He estimated that McNally goes to the field approximately 10% of the time with game officials and approximately 25-30% of the time with Richard Farley, and the other times he is walking by himself."

Gotta love the little 'Patriots produced ... to support McNally's account', just to sow as much mistrust as possible. Unbiased my ###.

Usually the locker room attendant has between 15-20 minutes alone with the balls after they've been inspected, in the ref's locker room, while the refs are on the field for their pregame. Wells' premise is that for the AFCCG, because it was a playoff game and the locker room was much more busy than usual, McNally needed to take the balls to that bathroom to get a chance to discretely deflate them.

I personally believe the security people, because it seems ludicrous to me that the officials would be so nazi about escorting the balls to the field yet admittedly leave them in their essentially public locker room for their entire pregame where anything and everything could be done to them (post-inspection, remember).

 

[massraider]

Gotta love the little 'Patriots produced ... to support McNally's account', just to sow as much mistrust as possible. Unbiased my ###.

Why does that sound mistrustful? If the Pats produced him, the Pats produced him.

 

[massraider]

So this was the first and only time that Mcnally deflated the ball?

If you believe in unicorns and dragons then yes.

I don't believe in anything. I'm just asking because there is a quote from the security guy saying that he has zero recollection of McNally ever being alone with the balls.

I don't think there's an answer. Who knows how he did it?

Text messages tell us he found a way. Tommy Small Hands even expressed concern to Jastremski about McNally getting it done. One can infer from the messages that it wasn't the easiest thing to do.

 

[Jercules]

Gotta love the little 'Patriots produced ... to support McNally's account', just to sow as much mistrust as possible. Unbiased my ###.

Why does that sound mistrustful? If the Pats produced him, the Pats produced him.

It's the language used. It's meant to imply they were 'produced' simply to back up McNally.

"We know you think he's lying, so here's two stooges we found that'll say the same thing".

He interviewed them because they were clearly relevant persons, both with some insight into the pregame procedure with the game balls. If both of them had said "no, we never see McNally alone with the balls", you can bet anything the presentation of their testimonies would be much more positive.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Gotta love the little 'Patriots produced ... to support McNally's account', just to sow as much mistrust as possible. Unbiased my ###.

Why does that sound mistrustful? If the Pats produced him, the Pats produced him.

It's the language used. It's meant to imply they were 'produced' simply to back up McNally.

"We know you think he's lying, so here's two stooges we found that'll say the same thing".

He interview these people because they were clearly relevant persons, both with some insight into the pregame procedure. If both of them had said "no, we never see McNally alone with the balls", you can bet the language would be much different.

I think you're being irrational on this point. These were guys that the Patriots produced, not guys that the investigators scrounged around to find. That's relevant information that should rightly be stated in the report.

 

[bostonfred]

I don't have a problem with the league punishing the Patriots or Tom Brady if they feel a rule was broken. I don't really have a problem with the degree of the penalty in and of itself - I'd gladly see them get hit twice as hard for that game winning interception. I get that there are people who are happy it happened to the Patriots, and also people who are legitimately demanding that rules violators be punished. I get all that.

Where I see the issue is that nobody involved in this really seems to think that the deflation is the reason for the harshness of the punishment. It's the non cooperation. otherwise, dropping the hammer with a fine that's 40x the fine listed in the books, plus suspending a player four games, plus giving the team the heaviest draft pick penalty in NFL history, makes no sense. And I guess i get that, too. The NFL has said repeatedly that you need cooperate with these investigations.

But now wells has said that Tom Brady did cooperate in the investigation, and that his only real non cooperation was his refusal to turn over his personal cell phone. And the team cooperated, and made these guys available repeatedly until finally saying enough is enough.

So now it looks like the penalty for cooperating, but not turning over your personal cell phone - regardless of the assurances given by the investigator - is a four game suspension, when the rule they're investigating doesn't carry any risk of suspension.

And the penalty for the team - when the owner and coach were reportedly never implicated in any way - is the harshest in NFL history because they eventually stopped sending their staff to meetings after a three month investigation into the psi changes of footballs on a cold wet day in January.

if that's really what the penalties are for - and the league keeps saying the problem was the non cooperation - then this is an absurd penalty that's just incredibly out of touch with reality. Because the precedent had been set, now, that any future investigation where a player refuses to hand his personal cell phone over exposes himself to a four game suspension and his team to lose a first round pick and more. That's just an insane standard. I don't expect big steel thrill to change his mind or anything, but do any of you rational people really think this is appropriate?

 

[BroadwayG]

The precedent was set with Favre. 0 games for withholding possible evidence.

 

[massraider]

if that's really what the penalties are for - and the league keeps saying the problem was the non cooperation - then this is an absurd penalty that's just incredibly out of touch with reality. Because the precedent had been set, now, that any future investigation where a player refuses to hand his personal cell phone over exposes himself to a four game suspension and his team to lose a first round pick and more. That's just an insane standard. I don't expect big steel thrill to change his mind or anything, but do any of you rational people really think this is appropriate?

The league keeps saying that? Mmmm, I don't think they do.

Also, I don't happen to think the punishment is for refusal to cooperate.

I think it's for:

Cheating (having the Deflator do his job)

Cheating AGAIN. (Pats dwere told after SpyGate-we better not see you again)

Lying. (Brady lied. Publicly.)

Refusing to cooperate (cell phone/emails)

Refusing to cooperate (McNally for 2nd interview after damagng text messages surfaced)

 

[GregR]

Could be he normally deflates them in the Official's Locker room while the refs are out on the field for pregame. But with the NFC game running late and the pregame for the Pats not going like it normally does due to the delay, he might have sought out a location where he'd be less likely to have someone walk in on him during it with the schedule in such flux.

It would certainly fit with the context the text messages provide, where Brady "said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done". If he's doing them in the locker room with the possibility the refs might walk back in at any moment, I'd think he'd have a lot of stress over it too. Moreso than if his regular pattern was to stop off in the restroom behind a locked door.