Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)

[amnesiac]

i'm increasingly suspecting the correct answer is that both the Patriots AND the NFL are guilty of acting like #######s on this whole thing.

and the timing of the whole thing couldn't have been worse. unless you prescribe to the old "any publicity is good publicity" adage.

 

[rick6668]

The precedent was set with Favre. 0 games for withholding possible evidence.

$50k fine for not Favre not handing over his phone. $20k fine to the Chargers for not handing over the substance they may/may not have been rubbing on the balls. 1st round pick, 4 game suspension, $1M for Brady not turning over his phone.

False. No matter how many times Pat's fans repeat it.

 

[espnespn]

Would you have felt better had they done so? Would you have believed what they wrote? The ref had a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. this was done. The ref can testify to this with sincerity and certainty. writing it down would not change the strength of that testimony one iota. Now had the process been video'd, maybe that would offer some small scintilla of greater assurance, but many would question whether the video produced was the video from that day. Apologists have offered this red herring before. You were in the thread at the time. You continue to off4er tired excuses, hoping to convince who, yourself? Good luck with that.

I like how you state things that are unproven with authority, like: "The ref has a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. This was done."

Yes, assuming the conclusion makes the conclusion correct. QED.

I assume this is so since the refs, as you and others have stated by implying this was a sting, knew and were specifically admonished to do so, an extraordinary event in the life of a ref, and for a playoff game, specifically remembers that he did so. Testimony, and circumstances for remembering are sound evidence. Again, I know there is no proof for you which will satisfy your unwillingness to listen and learn. In fact I was responding to a post specifically about a complained lack of diligence and was raising the question of whether the diligence some would have artificially placed on the process would make an iota of difference in the reliability of the testimony.

I realize from your posting in this thread that much of this goes over your head. That is to be expected when one's head is alternately up their ### or buried in the sand, but do try to keep up.

Well, I don't remember saying or implying this was a sting. Maybe you have me confused with Don Yee? Speaking of which, I'd ask whether you and Don Yee both took the "How to be a Biased Blowhard" class at UVA Law, but it is more probable than not that anyone who actually went to a good law school would be working at a prominent law firm or corporation, instead of working as a lawyer for the city. Nice job finding a career that is basically last choice for any respectable law student.

Also, you seem to deliberately go out of your way to advertise that you are a lawyer, by constantly dropping words common in first year law school books like iota, quantum, and scintilla. Not very impressive. (Actually, to anyone who has taken Latin/Greek in high school, it is even less impressive).

Now back to your sad argument, where you use another assumption to prove your prior assumption. Are you saying that this day was so extraordinary for the ref, that he had a laser focus on doing his duties properly and remembering things? This is demonstrably wrong. Let's recap all the ways the ref screwed up:

1) He wasn't sure which gauge he used. It was so hard to remember -- there were 2 of them!

2) He lost track of a bag of balls pre-game

3) He lost track of a bag of balls at halftime

To you, this is all proof positive that the ref is an unimpeachable source. To anyone who will listen and learn, it is obvious you have an axe to grind vs. the Patriots. At least Don Yee is paid well to be biased, what's your excuse?

 

[12punch]

The precedent was set with Favre. 0 games for withholding possible evidence.

$50k fine for not Favre not handing over his phone. $20k fine to the Chargers for not handing over the substance they may/may not have been rubbing on the balls. 1st round pick, 4 game suspension, $1M for Brady not turning over his phone.

They heap weight on all the great horses.

And the greatest keep winning.

The off season is your time, trolls -- enjoy it

 

[Jeremy's Spoken]

This whole thing is stupid!

 

[moleculo]

Would you have felt better had they done so? Would you have believed what they wrote? The ref had a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. this was done. The ref can testify to this with sincerity and certainty. writing it down would not change the strength of that testimony one iota. Now had the process been video'd, maybe that would offer some small scintilla of greater assurance, but many would question whether the video produced was the video from that day. Apologists have offered this red herring before. You were in the thread at the time. You continue to off4er tired excuses, hoping to convince who, yourself? Good luck with that.

I like how you state things that are unproven with authority, like: "The ref has a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. This was done."

Yes, assuming the conclusion makes the conclusion correct. QED.

I assume this is so since the refs, as you and others have stated by implying this was a sting, knew and were specifically admonished to do so, an extraordinary event in the life of a ref, and for a playoff game, specifically remembers that he did so. Testimony, and circumstances for remembering are sound evidence. Again, I know there is no proof for you which will satisfy your unwillingness to listen and learn. In fact I was responding to a post specifically about a complained lack of diligence and was raising the question of whether the diligence some would have artificially placed on the process would make an iota of difference in the reliability of the testimony. I realize from your posting in this thread that much of this goes over your head. That is to be expected when one's head is alternately up their ### or buried in the sand, but do try to keep up.

Well, I don't remember saying or implying this was a sting. Maybe you have me confused with Don Yee? Speaking of which, I'd ask whether you and Don Yee both took the "How to be a Biased Blowhard" class at UVA Law, but it is more probable than not that anyone who actually went to a good law school would be working at a prominent law firm or corporation, instead of working as a lawyer for the city. Nice job finding a career that is basically last choice for any respectable law student.

Also, you seem to deliberately go out of your way to advertise that you are a lawyer, by constantly dropping words common in first year law school books like iota, quantum, and scintilla. Not very impressive. (Actually, to anyone who has taken Latin/Greek in high school, it is even less impressive).

Now back to your sad argument, where you use another assumption to prove your prior assumption. Are you saying that this day was so extraordinary for the ref, that he had a laser focus on doing his duties properly and remembering things? This is demonstrably wrong. Let's recap all the ways the ref screwed up:

1) He wasn't sure which gauge he used. It was so hard to remember -- there were 2 of them!

2) He lost track of a bag of balls pre-game

3) He lost track of a bag of balls at halftime

To you this, this is all proof positive that the ref is an unimpeachable source. To anyone who will listen and learn, it is obvious you have an axe to grind vs. the Patriots. At least Don Yee is paid well to be biased, what's your excuse?

Technically, per item 2, the balls were removed without his permission, he didn't lose them. That's like blaming Ronald McDonald for losing the hamburgers when that damn hamburgler is in town.

 

[12punch]

Where'd the colts get the idea to complain about this?

Jim Harbaugh read the rule book IMO.

He sounds a little salty

 

[squistion]

Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann ·

AN OPEN LETTER TO #TOMBRADY:

Look, we've ALL been suspended. Well, anyway, I have. Here's what to do next.

VIDEO:

http://j.mp/1JaYQc2

 

[espnespn]

Would you have felt better had they done so? Would you have believed what they wrote? The ref had a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. this was done. The ref can testify to this with sincerity and certainty. writing it down would not change the strength of that testimony one iota. Now had the process been video'd, maybe that would offer some small scintilla of greater assurance, but many would question whether the video produced was the video from that day. Apologists have offered this red herring before. You were in the thread at the time. You continue to off4er tired excuses, hoping to convince who, yourself? Good luck with that.

I like how you state things that are unproven with authority, like: "The ref has a specific duty, to bring any ball lower than 12.5 PSI up to that limit. This was done."

Yes, assuming the conclusion makes the conclusion correct. QED.

I assume this is so since the refs, as you and others have stated by implying this was a sting, knew and were specifically admonished to do so, an extraordinary event in the life of a ref, and for a playoff game, specifically remembers that he did so. Testimony, and circumstances for remembering are sound evidence. Again, I know there is no proof for you which will satisfy your unwillingness to listen and learn. In fact I was responding to a post specifically about a complained lack of diligence and was raising the question of whether the diligence some would have artificially placed on the process would make an iota of difference in the reliability of the testimony. I realize from your posting in this thread that much of this goes over your head. That is to be expected when one's head is alternately up their ### or buried in the sand, but do try to keep up.

Well, I don't remember saying or implying this was a sting. Maybe you have me confused with Don Yee? Speaking of which, I'd ask whether you and Don Yee both took the "How to be a Biased Blowhard" class at UVA Law, but it is more probable than not that anyone who actually went to a good law school would be working at a prominent law firm or corporation, instead of working as a lawyer for the city. Nice job finding a career that is basically last choice for any respectable law student.

Also, you seem to deliberately go out of your way to advertise that you are a lawyer, by constantly dropping words common in first year law school books like iota, quantum, and scintilla. Not very impressive. (Actually, to anyone who has taken Latin/Greek in high school, it is even less impressive).

Now back to your sad argument, where you use another assumption to prove your prior assumption. Are you saying that this day was so extraordinary for the ref, that he had a laser focus on doing his duties properly and remembering things? This is demonstrably wrong. Let's recap all the ways the ref screwed up:

1) He wasn't sure which gauge he used. It was so hard to remember -- there were 2 of them!

2) He lost track of a bag of balls pre-game

3) He lost track of a bag of balls at halftime

To you this, this is all proof positive that the ref is an unimpeachable source. To anyone who will listen and learn, it is obvious you have an axe to grind vs. the Patriots. At least Don Yee is paid well to be biased, what's your excuse?

Technically, per item 2, the balls were removed without his permission, he didn't lose them.That's like blaming Ronald McDonald for losing the hamburgers when that damn hamburger is in town.

Fair enough on item 2. Things happen even if you are trying to be super-careful.

 

[12punch]

This whole thing is stupid!

Thread or scandal?

 

[12punch]

That's like blaming Ronald McDonald for losing the hamburgers when that damn hamburger is in town.

Yeah, that makes sense

 

[Bucky86]

Holy ####. How many posts does 12punch have in this thread?

 

[espnespn]

The point is they didn't take that aspect of their duties very seriously, and it's likely the NFL never asked them to either (perhaps for very good reasons--do we really care about the specific air pressure of a football?--but nonetheless).

When it became a big enough issue to send in investigators, suddenly now it became important for the NFL to pretend it was serious: all the better to lay down the law and credibly punish the Patriots.

and, we have come full circle. Just because the NFL may not have taken air pressure seriously in the past does not give Patriot team employees latitude to manipulate pressure on balls after they have been inspected and certified.

You really do like to jump to extremes don't you? It's somewhat more forgivable to break a rule no one takes seriously, that doesn't mean it's totally forgivable. That's not a complicated point dude.

air-pressure in game balls - not taken seriously.

tampering with certified, legal game equipment - very serious.

Please understand this key point. The patriots did not attempt to sneak in non-conforming equipment and hope the refs missed it on inspection, like allegedly Aaron Rodgers did. If that's all there was, no crime. That's not what happened here.

If tampering with certified game equipment, specifically game balls, was taken so seriously, why was it common for team employees to loiter in the ref's locker room alone with the certified game balls for 15-20 minutes while the refs were on the field doing their pregame?

because it never occurred to the league that someone would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?

also, can you provide a link as to where this is common? Because that's pretty much the opposite of what the Wells report says.

The relevant link is the Wells report: http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/05/06/0ap3000000491381.pdf

Page 62, footnote 34:

"The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected)."

* * * * *

"Because it never occurred to the league that somebody would be so brazen as to cheat in this manner?"


Yeah, that's absurd.

Leave it to the Pats.

Hmmm, that part of the report seems inconsistent with Page 55 and 57 of the report? How are the balls still in the locker room without the refs there, if the balls go with the refs to the field?

"Anderson said that it is typical for locker room attendants throughout the League to help move the game balls towards the front of the locker room, but that the footballs do not leave the locker room until the officials give express permission for them to be brought to the field at or near the time the officials also walk to the field. Numerous other game officials described a similar practice."

"Richard Farley, who has been the NFL Security Representative for New England
for approximately twelve years and is present in the Officials Locker Room before and during
every Patriots home game, said that he considers it part of his job description to accompany the
referee to the field and that he is generally in close proximity to McNally and the game balls
when he walks to the field with the referee. According to Farley, he often opens the door to
allow McNally to exit easily with the ball bags, and then McNally, Farley, the referee and the
head linesman will walk to the field together or in close proximity to each other. Farley cannot
recall McNally previously bringing game balls to the field prior to the start of a game without
being accompanied by or in close proximity to one or more game officials."

If you read the testimony of the security employees, they all say it was not uncommon for McNally to bring the balls to the field himself (50% of the time seems to be the general consensus figure).

I believe the officials and Farley are simply guilty of laziness. Of course, when a league-appointed investigator comes calling, they act as though the protocol is rigorously adhered to and lay it all on McNally. The bias of the Wells report is that it endeavors to soft pedal the clear nonchalance of the officials and the league when dealing with testing, certifying, and preventing anyone from tampering with game balls.

(Pretty funny that a revelation like the one I quoted above was buried in a footnote, no?)

EDIT: To answer your question, they leave for their pregame and come back, and presumably nobody wants to lug a ball bag around. Again, nonchalance.

If numerous officials are telling the truth that the footballs never leave the locker room until at or near the time the officials walk to the field, doesn't that mean that McNally could not have deflated post-inspection in the past? The balls would have never left the officials. Which means the texts that talk about deflation, are all about pre-inspection deflation.

If the officials are lying about prior protocol, and never kept track, then why should we trust them when they say the Patriots footballs started at 12.5 PSI? Also, if the refs were lax in checking ball PSI, then McNally would not need to deflate the balls further after submitting already-deflated balls for ref inspection, because the refs didn't do anything to them.

There is a lot of conflicting evidence in the Wells Report, and anyone who says they are convinced that it proves guilt is fooling themselves.

 

[12punch]

Holy ####. How many posts does 12punch have in this thread?

think some guy said 400, but that was 10 pages ago

edit: +1

 

[12punch]

In other messianic news:

Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko

Brady has hired Jeffery Kessler according to @AdamSchefter .. he is a pain in the ###. Was the biggest hurdle in the way of NBA/NFL CBAs

He's represented Brady and Belichick before.

http://www.winston.com/en/who-we-are/attorneys/kessler-jeffrey-l.html

• Brady v. NFL — Successfully represented a class of NFL players in an antitrust action which led to the end of the 2011 NFL lockout.
• Belichick v. NFL, et al. — Represented NFL Head Coach in litigation over changing teams

"He litigated some of the most famous sports-antitrust cases in history while at Weil, including McNeil v. the NFL, the landmark antitrust jury trial which led to the establishment of free agency in the National Football League(NFL)"

release the hounds

 

[T J]

The precedent was set with Favre. 0 games for withholding possible evidence.

$50k fine for not Favre not handing over his phone. $20k fine to the Chargers for not handing over the substance they may/may not have been rubbing on the balls. 1st round pick, 4 game suspension, $1M for Brady not turning over his phone.

They heap weight on all the great horses.

And the greatest keep winning.

The off season is your time, trolls -- enjoy it

Pot, meet kettle. Troll.

 

[12punch]

Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump People are so jealous of Tom Brady and the Patriots. No court could convict based on the evidence.They can't beat him on the field, so this!

"If I were Tom Brady, I'd sue the hell out of the NFL for defamation. $250 million dollars. Sue them Tom. They'll settle so fast your head will spin."

Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump Why do we always try to destroy our true champions and winners in this country, while at the same time leaving the losers alone? STUPID!

 

[12punch]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 6m6 minutes agoOn PFT Live, @RefereeJimD says that officials did not know that balls set to 12.5 PSI at kickoff would drop lower than that on a cold day.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 11m11 minutes agoOn PFT Live, former NFL official and supervisor of officials @RefereeJimD on football inflation: "It has never been an exact science."

 

[Tool]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

 

[The General]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

 

[Tool]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

 

[GoBirds]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

No attorney is ever in a hurry

 

[PatsWillWin]

i'm increasingly suspecting the correct answer is that both the Patriots AND the NFL are guilty of acting like #######s on this whole thing.

I'm not even sure that the most ardent Patriot hater would debate this.

 

[The General]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

Brady's lawyer will have the same conflict of interest then.

 

[12punch]

10 Reasons Why an Appeal Overturns Tom Brady’s Suspension

 

[KarmaPolice]

So why wasn't Belichick punished?

Completely exonerated in the report.

Goodell to Sean Payton:

"Both parties have vehemently denied any knowledge or participation in the AFC Championship Game when questioned but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to protecting the shield," Goodell continued.

Sean Payton gets 1 year, Belichick gets absolutely nothing.

That people don't understand the difference between the two cases...and how one was an issue that had been going on in Payton's locker room for a while...one they had been warned about in the past.

Between this and Pats fans still believing they did nothing wrong is what is laughable in all of this.

Maybe i am not following closely enough. There are people saying they did nothing wrong?

 

[massraider]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

If he had come back with evidence that Brady had no clue what was going on, that would have been seen as very, very good news by the NFL. The best outcome would have been nothing conclusive, and everyone could debate the affects of weather on footballs.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.

Bob Kraft is one of of the more popular and powerful owners. Has been referred to as assistant commish.

The teams he owns has been the most successful franchise in the NFL for 15 years.

He has been the most vocal supporter of the commissioner since he helped get him the job in the first place, and was also the driving force in getting him a massive raise.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.



If anyone can make a case why the NFL has it in for the Pats, or why this result is what they want, I challenge them to make a case that makes any sense.

 

[12punch]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

The National Football League attempted on Tuesday to dismiss more than 200 cases brought by nearly 4,200 retired players who said they were not warned of the dangers of head trauma.

U.S. District Court Judge Anita Brody delayed a ruling on the request. "I will rule when I sort this out for myself," she said before adjourning the packed courtroom.

The class-action lawsuit could determine the league's role in caring for players with football-related neurodegenerative diseases.

The players accuse the NFL of "deliberately and fraudulently" concealing the dangers of head trauma, and are seeking damages, treatment and medical monitoring for neurological injuries they sustained during their careers.

High profile attorney Ted Wells, who's represented former **** Cheney adviser I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, among others, was observing Tuesday's arguments. Wells is one of the lead trial attorneys who will be representing the NFL should this case go to trial.

As of just a few months ago, one large case continued to loom over Philip Morris's future: the federal government's 1999 civil racketeering suit. Mr. Ohlemeyer chose Theodore V. Wells Jr., 55, a partner at New York's Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, to work on the case. Mr. Wells, who is African-American, had never handled a tobacco case before. But as a nationally known white-collar criminal-defense lawyer he had successfully defended former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy against bribery charges.

The Deflategate report described Exponent as “one of the leading scientific and engineering consulting firms in the country.”

The L.A. Times in 2010 detailed criticism of the company, including over how Exponent once argued on behalf of the tobacco industry that secondhand smoke did not cause cancer.

there's no conflicts, but there is an interest

 

[12punch]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

If he had come back with evidence that Brady had no clue what was going on, that would have been seen as very, very good news by the NFL. The best outcome would have been nothing conclusive, and everyone could debate the affects of weather on footballs.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.

Bob Kraft is one of of the more popular and powerful owners. Has been referred to as assistant commish.

The teams he owns has been the most successful franchise in the NFL for 15 years.

He has been the most vocal supporter of the commissioner since he helped get him the job in the first place, and was also the driving force in getting him a massive raise.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.



If anyone can make a case why the NFL has it in for the Pats, or why this result is what they want, I challenge them to make a case that makes any sense.

I bet if I put ted wells and exponent on it we'd have a case

 

[KarmaPolice]

Where'd the colts get the idea to complain about this?

Jim Harbaugh read the rule book IMO.

Hmm, you think he would have stumbled across the part about legal formations in there too.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

Brady's lawyer will have the same conflict of interest then.

You think Brady's lawyers are supposed to be independent?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

If he had come back with evidence that Brady had no clue what was going on, that would have been seen as very, very good news by the NFL. The best outcome would have been nothing conclusive, and everyone could debate the affects of weather on footballs.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.

Bob Kraft is one of of the more popular and powerful owners. Has been referred to as assistant commish.

The teams he owns has been the most successful franchise in the NFL for 15 years.

He has been the most vocal supporter of the commissioner since he helped get him the job in the first place, and was also the driving force in getting him a massive raise.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.



If anyone can make a case why the NFL has it in for the Pats, or why this result is what they want, I challenge them to make a case that makes any sense.

It makes sense if you have a commissioner that is almost entirely ruled by public sentiment.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Holy ####. How many posts does 12punch have in this thread?

509 and counting. His parents are probably from Boston and so pissed that they are letting junior have free reign on the computer.

 

[The General]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

Brady's lawyer will have the same conflict of interest then.

You think Brady's lawyers are supposed to be independent?

Nope. Their only concern is to drag out the case for more fees. Don't you see it all is part of the conspiracy to drag Tom down.

 

[Tool]

Wells, who said he bills by the hour, wouldn't estimate how much his investigation cost the NFL but said ''no question it's in the millions of dollars.''

Conflict of interest?

Wut?

NFL paying him millions of dollars. Probably billed about 10x more than he needed to. Not sure that would've gone over well if he came back w/ an innocent verdict and then handed the NFL the bill.

If he had come back with evidence that Brady had no clue what was going on, that would have been seen as very, very good news by the NFL. The best outcome would have been nothing conclusive, and everyone could debate the affects of weather on footballs.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.

Bob Kraft is one of of the more popular and powerful owners. Has been referred to as assistant commish.

The teams he owns has been the most successful franchise in the NFL for 15 years.

He has been the most vocal supporter of the commissioner since he helped get him the job in the first place, and was also the driving force in getting him a massive raise.

The 'NFL out to get the Patriots' thing makes no sense.



If anyone can make a case why the NFL has it in for the Pats, or why this result is what they want, I challenge them to make a case that makes any sense.

As someone pointed out public sentiment; reason #1.

#2: Goodell is being viewed as soft on punishment. A lot of pressure to come down hard on any transgressions.

#3: Goodell viewed by other owners as overly friendly with Kraft. Needed to show other owners that's not the case.

#4: The opinions of the majority of the owners more important than 1

#5: Power play by Goodell and NFL: they felt challenged by Pats not following along and cooperating with investigation.

#6: Already pointed out NFL paid for the investigation. At this point it's out of their hands to a certain extent. Wells motivated to find in NFL's favor.

 

[Franknbeans]

Just admit it, Tom

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Oh, Jesus.

https://youtu.be/xT9pygVQwgk

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Brady is like a rebel without a clause

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So has anyone gone back and watched any film of Brady's play when the balls were deflated as to when they werent? i mean you should be able to spot it in an instant just by how much better he plays when the balls have less pressure ...right?

 

[KarmaPolice]

So has anyone gone back and watched any film of Brady's play when the balls were deflated as to when they werent? i mean you should be able to spot it in an instant just by how much better he plays when the balls have less pressure ...right?

There was a huge difference in that AFCCG pre and post halftime... in favor of the properly inflated balls.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So has anyone gone back and watched any film of Brady's play when the balls were deflated as to when they werent? i mean you should be able to spot it in an instant just by how much better he plays when the balls have less pressure ...right?

There was a huge difference in that AFCCG pre and post halftime... in favor of the properly inflated balls.

how about all the other games all the salty people are saying he did this...it must be very noticeable if one goes back and reviews all the games hes played ...it being such an advantage over everyone else and all

 

[The General]

This thread repeats itself every 20 pages or so.

 

[KarmaPolice]

So has anyone gone back and watched any film of Brady's play when the balls were deflated as to when they werent? i mean you should be able to spot it in an instant just by how much better he plays when the balls have less pressure ...right?

There was a huge difference in that AFCCG pre and post halftime... in favor of the properly inflated balls.

how about all the other games all the salty people are saying he did this...it must be very noticeable if one goes back and reviews all the games hes played ...it being such an advantage over everyone else and all

Yeah, you would think this would be the case.

 

[12punch]

At a pre-Super Bowl press conference, Blandino tried to say that nobody from the league was aware of any issues with the footballs prior to the game.

“Then there was an issue that was brought up during the first half,” Blandino said on Jan. 29 in Phoenix. “A football came into question and then the decisions was made to test them at halftime and now.”

When hit with a follow-up question from the New York Post about allegations that the NFL conducted a “sting operation” in order to catch the Patriots red-handed, Blandino again flatly denied any prior knowledge to anything about football inflation levels.

“I don’t know where [the idea of a sting] came from,” Blandino told the Post. “This was a problem that came up in the first half.”​

At this point, I understand that folks’ eyeballs might immediately gloss over with boredom upon seeing yet another excerpt from the Wells report. But this is important, as it relates to the email sent by Colts GM Ryan Grigson and Colts equipment manager Sean Sullivan. This message was sent to NFL senior VP of football operations David Gardi and director of football operations Mike Kensil.

Kensil forwarded Grigson’s email without comment to James Daniel, Director of Game Operations at he NFL, who in turn forwarded it to other Game Operations personnel who would be at the game as an ‘FYI.’ Kensil also forwarded Grigson’s email to Dean Blandino and Alberto Riveron, both senior members of the NFL Officiating Department, with the message ‘see below.’ Both Riveron and Blandino decided that they would raise the issue with Walt Anderson, who had been assigned as the referee for the game.

On Saturday, the day before the AFC Championship Game, “Blandino reminded Anderson to ensure that proper protocols concerning the footballs were followed.”​

oops

 

[12punch]

I don't know if this has been posted already but i heard zolack a couple of minutes ago on NFL radio. he said Brady is absolutely livid and is looking at a defamation law suit. He also said hes never seen Kraft so angry, and between the both of them the summer is going to be filled with lawsuits and counter lawsuits.

OH one other thing, the opener will be treated like a regular season game. No stages, no concert, no pregame interviews, no banner, no Nothin

 

[davearm]

The whole "sting operation" narrative is a joke.

If there was a sting operation going on, then dontcha suppose the league would have initiated the retesting of the footballs themselves?

Well it was not the league that set these events in motion. It was the Colts.

If that Colts player hadn't intercepted a pass and handed the football to a Colts equipment guy, who noticed it seemed squishy, who then alerted NFL officials, then there would be no deflategate.

 

[Run It Up]

The whole "sting operation" narrative is a joke.

If there was a sting operation going on, then dontcha suppose the league would have initiated the retesting of the footballs themselves?

Well it was not the league that set these events in motion. It was the Colts.

If that Colts player hadn't intercepted a pass and handed the football to a Colts equipment guy, who noticed it seemed squishy, who then alerted NFL officials, then there would be no deflategate.

What?

If there was a sting, it would require the Colts to pull the trigger allowing the NFL to move on it.

Stings don't just happen, they require a cue.

 

[rockaction]

So awesome. Eli doesn't need to cry salty tears. He's beaten you guys like a drum. "Noticeable difference."

http://national.suntimes.com/nfl/7/72/1100327/eli-manning-tried-underinflated-footballs

Patriots crying salty ham cheater tears over ham cheating.

 

[Bayhawks]

So has anyone gone back and watched any film of Brady's play when the balls were deflated as to when they werent? i mean you should be able to spot it in an instant just by how much better he plays when the balls have less pressure ...right?

There was a huge difference in that AFCCG pre and post halftime... in favor of the properly inflated balls.

how about all the other games all the salty people are saying he did this...it must be very noticeable if one goes back and reviews all the games hes played ...it being such an advantage over everyone else and all

Yeah, you would think this would be the case.

Okay---have TB get with us and let us know exactly what games he was able to get the balls deflated, and which ones he wasn't & I'll crunch the numbers.

Obviously, we don't know exactly when this started or which specific games were played with balls that were under the legal limit vs at the low end of the legal limit. That being said, Brady & other QBs were able to get the rule changed before the 2006 season allowing home teams to provide their own footballs.

Prior to the 2006 season, Brady was 1574/2537 (62%), for 17990 (7.1 YPA), 123 TD, 66 INT

From 2006 on, Brady was 2976/4621 (64%), for 35231 (7.6 YPA), 269 TD, 77 INT

So, higher completion %, higher YPA, better TD rate, lower INT rate. There appears to be a link between an improvement in his play and the home team being allowed to provide their own game balls. However, that's definitely not conclusive & his growth as an NFL QB could account for some/all of those improvements, as could his growing knowledge/expertise of the NE offense. So, without specific information about which games involved the use of under-inflated balls, you can't really make the comparison you are asking for. Then again, I think you knew that and were just trying to deflect attention away from the real issues which is that Brady/NE cheated, then lied, tried to cover it up, and refused to cooperate with the NFL investigation.

 

[rockaction]

Liars