Patriots being investigated after Colts game (5 Viewers)

[dkocourek]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere on this 193-page thread, but maybe even the salty Pats fans will enjoy this...

https://www.facebook.com/1003032643070145/videos/1003131923060217/

 

[Pots]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere on this 193-page thread, but maybe even the salty Pats fans will enjoy this...

https://www.facebook.com/1003032643070145/videos/1003131923060217/

Multiple times, but still funny.

 

[sho nuff]

Actually...with a pretty large certainty...anyone not wearing Pats glasses knows the Patriots tampered with the balls.

Which is why they lied and tried to cover it up...innocent people don't do such things.

That is the easiest way to poke a giant hole in the excuses made by the Pats supporters in this.

Yeah, you never see innocent ppl running around proclaiming innocence, just guilty ppl covering up.Good point

You are trying too hard.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Interesting discussion I heard this morning (I think it was on the radio, I was only half awake . . . which admittedly may be 50% more than normal). One theory was that Kraft is going to go nuclear over this and if things don't get overturned he will take steps to have Goodell removed as commissioner. That would make for an interesting showdown. I am not sure how the commissioner is viewed by the 31 other owners and if Kraft has the clout to get Goodell ousted.

Not sure why Kraft is so pissed at Goodell. You'd think he'd be pissed at Brady for cheating, lying about it, and making him look like a fool in public.

We are just going to go in circles again, but here goes.

In the past, for potential violations teams were told to stop what they were doing or league wide memos/letters were sent out telling people that from that point forward ISSUE X would no longer be tolerated and there would be penalties for repeat abusers. No such notice was given this time around. In the past, for equipment violations throughout the history of the league, no investigations were launched, no players were ever suspended, and no draft picks were ever docked. On several occasions, the league looked the other way, did not punish teams, or handed out small fines.

In the Wells report itself, it found that whatever happened was between the two locker room attendants and Brady. Yet the team was fined and picks were taken away. In other sports, when a pitcher is caught tampering with the baseball or a player is caught with a corked bat, does the team get fined and lose draft picks?

With regard to Deflategate, the entire process has been conducted in an entirely different direction than in the past. Kraft (and many others) feel the penalties handed out are Draconian and hugely unfair based on the (in their minds) misdemeanor of a crime committed. Kraft still feels the Wells report didn't prove a thing.

This entire fiasco could have been avoided (from the Pats perspective) without dragging the team's reputation in the muck by not having a Spanish Inquisition and could have been handled behind closed doors and not in the public. (The concept of not trying to circumvent the rules is apparently a foreign concept to the business model in NE.)

I am not specifically making all these claims, but that is the way the team seems to feel.

That would make sense except it makes no sense. Kraft is an idiot and supported the completely preposterous, ridiculous and draconian actions of Goodell in the past, when they were aimed at other teams. Kraft completely supported Goodell after Bountygate and the Redskins/Cowboys cap hits.

Kraft is just a little whiny ##### who cant take it when his former peon Goodell gets too big for his britches and turns the guns on him.

 

[sho nuff]

Actually...with a pretty large certainty...anyone not wearing Pats glasses knows the Patriots tampered with the balls.

Which is why they lied and tried to cover it up...innocent people don't do such things.

That is the easiest way to poke a giant hole in the excuses made by the Pats supporters in this.

Both sides are equally confident in their positions. It's just that the side not wearing Pats glasses is (approximately) 32x as big

I dont believe pats fans are that confident. Just holding on to hope.

Well, Idk why you would ever be exposed to it, but all the Patriots related things I spend time in or around have all been positive. Even /r/NFL has been pretty skeptical in general.Ofc there are exceptions to rules, but in general I would say most of us aren't convinced.

Because even video evidence of Brady with a needle in a ball wouldnt cinvince you all.

You say that, but there isn't anything remotely close to that here.This isn't even like spygate, where they ####### showed the tapes on live television and people still spin tales of bull#### from a decade ago.

Because Brady chose not to hand over his phone to someone the team has said believed to have been working with the league to knock the Patriots down - he is guilty. Based on opinion, not evidence.

Actually, its based on a whole lot of evidence.

 

[Run It Up]

Actually...with a pretty large certainty...anyone not wearing Pats glasses knows the Patriots tampered with the balls.

Which is why they lied and tried to cover it up...innocent people don't do such things.

That is the easiest way to poke a giant hole in the excuses made by the Pats supporters in this.

Both sides are equally confident in their positions. It's just that the side not wearing Pats glasses is (approximately) 32x as big

I dont believe pats fans are that confident. Just holding on to hope.

Well, Idk why you would ever be exposed to it, but all the Patriots related things I spend time in or around have all been positive. Even /r/NFL has been pretty skeptical in general.Ofc there are exceptions to rules, but in general I would say most of us aren't convinced.

Because even video evidence of Brady with a needle in a ball wouldnt cinvince you all.

You say that, but there isn't anything remotely close to that here.This isn't even like spygate, where they ####### showed the tapes on live television and people still spin tales of bull#### from a decade ago.

Because Brady chose not to hand over his phone to someone the team has said believed to have been working with the league to knock the Patriots down - he is guilty. Based on opinion, not evidence.

Actually, its based on a whole lot of evidence.

Go on.

 

[Bucky86]

Are 12punch and Runitup still blowing each other?

 

[sho nuff]

Actually...with a pretty large certainty...anyone not wearing Pats glasses knows the Patriots tampered with the balls.

Which is why they lied and tried to cover it up...innocent people don't do such things.

That is the easiest way to poke a giant hole in the excuses made by the Pats supporters in this.

Both sides are equally confident in their positions. It's just that the side not wearing Pats glasses is (approximately) 32x as big

I dont believe pats fans are that confident. Just holding on to hope.

Well, Idk why you would ever be exposed to it, but all the Patriots related things I spend time in or around have all been positive. Even /r/NFL has been pretty skeptical in general.Ofc there are exceptions to rules, but in general I would say most of us aren't convinced.

Because even video evidence of Brady with a needle in a ball wouldnt cinvince you all.

You say that, but there isn't anything remotely close to that here.This isn't even like spygate, where they ####### showed the tapes on live television and people still spin tales of bull#### from a decade ago.

Because Brady chose not to hand over his phone to someone the team has said believed to have been working with the league to knock the Patriots down - he is guilty. Based on opinion, not evidence.

Actually, its based on a whole lot of evidence.

Go on.

Nah...already predictable what will happen. The evidence is all out there and you already deny all of it that points to the pats and Brady being what they are.Have a good night.

 

[David Dodds]

I am just amazed that anyone out there thinks nothing happened.

Why are the two ball boys suspended?

Why did Tom's agent scream that this was a sting operation? (Doesn't that word by itself state that they were caught doing something)

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Why would Goodell intentionally go after his friend? The one who likely got him the job and a big raise.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

Why is one of the ball boys nick-named the deflator?

What were the texts about if not deflating the footballs?

Why didn't Tom (screened through his agent) release the texts that had to do with this (Wells specifically stated he did not need the phone nor wanted to see personal information)?

Why was Wells not allowed to interview McNally a second time (you know to ask about the texts where he is called the deflator among other things)?

You want to convince me. Take a lie detector test. Because everything else sounds like damage control trying to protect the legacies of the Patriots and their star quarterback. When you fight this hard, yet still won't really cooperate to find the truth, you are guilty.

 

[Bucky86]

I am just amazed that anyone out there thinks nothing happened.

Why are the two ball boys suspended?

Why did Tom's agent scream that this was a sting operation? (Doesn't that word by itself state that they were caught doing something)

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Why would Goodell intentionally go after his friend? The one who likely got him the job and a big raise.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

Why is one of the ball boys nick-named the deflator?

What were the texts about if not deflating the footballs?

Why didn't Tom (screened through his agent) release the texts that had to do with this (Wells specifically stated he did not need the phone nor wanted to see personal information)?

Why was Wells not allowed to interview McNally a second time (you know to ask about the texts where he is called the deflator among other things)?

You want to convince me. Take a lie detector test. Because everything else sounds like damage control trying to protect the legacies of the Patriots and their star quarterback. When you fight this hard, yet still won't really cooperate to find the truth, you are guilty.

Salty shark pooler be sharky. GO TOMMMMYYYY

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

DD - 2 questions in all honesty: what was the real practical impact in any single game this year, in terms of points scored? Any ballpark swings? And how many other teams do you think might have been doing the same thing and for how long? - Iknow it doesn't matter, fine, just curious on your estimates or guesses on those 2 questions. Thanks.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

#### pats fans say.....has this been posted yet? wicked pissa

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I am just amazed that anyone out there thinks nothing happened.

Why are the two ball boys suspended?

Why did Tom's agent scream that this was a sting operation? (Doesn't that word by itself state that they were caught doing something)

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Why would Goodell intentionally go after his friend? The one who likely got him the job and a big raise.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

Why is one of the ball boys nick-named the deflator?

What were the texts about if not deflating the footballs?

Why didn't Tom (screened through his agent) release the texts that had to do with this (Wells specifically stated he did not need the phone nor wanted to see personal information)?

Why was Wells not allowed to interview McNally a second time (you know to ask about the texts where he is called the deflator among other things)?

You want to convince me. Take a lie detector test. Because everything else sounds like damage control trying to protect the legacies of the Patriots and their star quarterback. When you fight this hard, yet still won't really cooperate to find the truth, you are guilty.

Nice post.Edit: I would have just liked this post without quoting it and cluttering the board, but I'm artificially out of likes.

 

[Run It Up]

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Cause they started much lower and then the atmospheric conditions in conjuction with a different gauge recorded an even lower number.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

Tom called Jestremski after Jestremski texted him, after deflategate blew up.

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

Because it was coordinated? Why were the Colts the only team to bring this up? Why did the NFL disregard it?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

An attempt at parity and appeasement.

 

[12punch]

#### pats fans say.....has this been posted yet? wicked pissa

Looo9l if Brady doesn't come out wearing 12.5 he's a ####### #######

 

[David Dodds]

DD - 2 questions in all honesty: what was the real practical impact in any single game this year, in terms of points scored? Any ballpark swings? And how many other teams do you think might have been doing the same thing and for how long? - Iknow it doesn't matter, fine, just curious on your estimates or guesses on those 2 questions. Thanks.

Was it just the one game? If that's the case, I think we all know it did not matter. The patriots destroyed the Colts. They could have played with rugby balls and won that game handily.

But I tend to think when one of the guys has a nickname of the Deflator in May that isn't the case. I suspect this has been going on for awhile. I can't assess how much it helps, but the fumbling data seems to suggest it might be a bigger factor than any of us realized. It's cold and wet in Foxboro. A quarterback with smallish hands playing in those tough conditions might get a bigger boost than other teams.

I have no reason to believe any other teams were deflating the balls after they were inspected by the NFL. Maybe I am naive, but that falls into the blatant cheating category for me. Were other teams submitting balls to the refs below and above the limits pre-inspection?. Yes I am sure that was happening and likely will continue to happen. I think most of us agree that's "gamesmanship".

 

[David Dodds]

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Cause they started much lower and then the atmospheric conditions in conjuction with a different gauge recorded an even lower number.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

Tom called Jestremski after Jestremski texted him, after deflategate blew up.

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

Because it was coordinated? Why were the Colts the only team to bring this up? Why did the NFL disregard it?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

An attempt at parity and appeasement.

skipping half of the questions and then these answers. Funny stuff.

 

[12punch]

I have no reason to believe any other teams were deflating the balls after they were inspected by the NFL. Maybe I am naive, but that falls into the blatant cheating category for me. Were other teams submitting balls to the refs below and above the limits pre-inspection?. Yes I am sure that was happening and likely will continue to happen. I think most of us agree that's "gamesmanship".

dude, you are hilarious

just own up to the hate like everybody else ---- nobody holds it against you

you think red sahks fans didn't used to hate the yankees?

it's ok if other teams deliberately try to break the rules and get this great unfair competitive advantage by sneaking in illegal equipment, but the patriots are a 200 page thread.

ok

what team do you root for?

 

[Tango]

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Cause they started much lower and then the atmospheric conditions in conjuction with a different gauge recorded an even lower number.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

Tom called Jestremski after Jestremski texted him, after deflategate blew up.

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

Because it was coordinated? Why were the Colts the only team to bring this up? Why did the NFL disregard it?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

An attempt at parity and appeasement.

These are the cherry picked answers with the other questions simply avoided? This is the all-star lineup of explanations?

With a defense like this Brady is lucky he's not in jail.

 

[amnesiac]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere on this 193-page thread, but maybe even the salty Pats fans will enjoy this...

https://www.facebook.com/1003032643070145/videos/1003131923060217/

i love how the background changes to flexball half way through.

 

[Tango]

I have no reason to believe any other teams were deflating the balls after they were inspected by the NFL. Maybe I am naive, but that falls into the blatant cheating category for me. Were other teams submitting balls to the refs below and above the limits pre-inspection?. Yes I am sure that was happening and likely will continue to happen. I think most of us agree that's "gamesmanship".

dude, you are hilarious

just own up to the hate like everybody else ---- nobody holds it against you

you think red sahks fans didn't used to hate the yankees?

it's ok if other teams deliberately try to break the rules and get this great unfair competitive advantage by sneaking in illegal equipment, but the patriots are a 200 page thread.

ok

what team do you root for?

Stop with the "Pats are hated" line. Pats fans are desperate to be in the same class as Duke and the Yankees...and they're not even close. Nobody hates the Patriots except your division-mates, the Colts (strongly) and the Ravens (mildly). The Pats are less-hated than the both the Cowboys and Steelers and historically the Pats arent even in the Top 10.

The strongest national feeling for anything related to the Patriots has nothing to do with Brady;

it's a feeling of sadness for what, only in the last 3.5 months, has proven to be a pitifully annoying fan-base.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

dude,

Your pain is overwhelming you.

 

[12punch]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere on this 193-page thread, but maybe even the salty Pats fans will enjoy this...

https://www.facebook.com/1003032643070145/videos/1003131923060217/

yeah, I think that might be songify

 

[espnespn]

Interesting discussion I heard this morning (I think it was on the radio, I was only half awake . . . which admittedly may be 50% more than normal). One theory was that Kraft is going to go nuclear over this and if things don't get overturned he will take steps to have Goodell removed as commissioner. That would make for an interesting showdown. I am not sure how the commissioner is viewed by the 31 other owners and if Kraft has the clout to get Goodell ousted.

Not sure why Kraft is so pissed at Goodell. You'd think he'd be pissed at Brady for cheating, lying about it, and making him look like a fool in public.

We are just going to go in circles again, but here goes.

In the past, for potential violations teams were told to stop what they were doing or league wide memos/letters were sent out telling people that from that point forward ISSUE X would no longer be tolerated and there would be penalties for repeat abusers. No such notice was given this time around. In the past, for equipment violations throughout the history of the league, no investigations were launched, no players were ever suspended, and no draft picks were ever docked. On several occasions, the league looked the other way, did not punish teams, or handed out small fines.

In the Wells report itself, it found that whatever happened was between the two locker room attendants and Brady. Yet the team was fined and picks were taken away. In other sports, when a pitcher is caught tampering with the baseball or a player is caught with a corked bat, does the team get fined and lose draft picks?

With regard to Deflategate, the entire process has been conducted in an entirely different direction than in the past. Kraft (and many others) feel the penalties handed out are Draconian and hugely unfair based on the (in their minds) misdemeanor of a crime committed. Kraft still feels the Wells report didn't prove a thing.

This entire fiasco could have been avoided (from the Pats perspective) without dragging the team's reputation in the muck by not having a Spanish Inquisition and could have been handled behind closed doors and not in the public. (The concept of not trying to circumvent the rules is apparently a foreign concept to the business model in NE.)

I am not specifically making all these claims, but that is the way the team seems to feel.

I think an element missing in a lot of those other situations has to do with the violation being something immediately following such a specific certification process.

Take Spygate as a contrast. The Pats broke a rule about where they could have cameras, and got punished.

Now imagine if in addition to that rule, the league had a certification process similar to the refs certifying the game balls. Say, an official that it is required that he visit the location of each team camera and certify that it is in a legal location. And after that certification took place, then the team had moved the camera to the illegal locations actually used in Spygate.

I think the league would have come down even harder in such a case. When something is made so abundantly clear you're not supposed to do it, and you still do it, I'd expect the reaction to be even more harsh. I think that contributes even though it isn't something overtly discussed.

If the Pats may have a gripe, it may be with the laissez-faire attitude of the ball inspection and certification process, which had been going on for years and years. If the stories that have come out are true, it appears that it was rare that every game ball in every game was thoroughly gauged and inspected. Some games it sounds like the balls weren't inspected at all. Some practices (by teams) seemed to be done repeatedly and against the rules of ball inspection or preparation (with emphasis given to being done pre-inspection). Bottom line, the NFL didn't seem to care too much about the inspection process (or lack thereof) until this year's AFCCG. If nothing else, this whole ordeal has shown the process to be riddled with potential issues and very little chain of custody to the pregame handling of footballs.

While all that may be true, the Pats still violated the rules. A (weak) argument can be made that if 1) the process was consistently implemented properly on a weekly basis and 2) the process itself was better insulated and foolproof then none of this could ever have happened. One of my biggest complaints with the NFL rules and policies is some infractions the penalties are spelled out. Other areas they indicate that something is illegal but don't indicate what the penalty would be if that rule was broken. And for the rules that DO HAVE set penalties, they don't consistently apply them anyway.

The league needs to literally have a column of infractions and a second column of penalties, and a third column for increased penalties for repeat offenders. If everything is spelled out, then we don't have to sit here and gripe that things were not adjudicated fairly.

The lack of consistency with penalties is probably going to help Brady's appeal. If you look at the Bountygate appeals, the Ray Rice appeals, and the Adrian Peterson appeals -- all appeals where the players won big, you'll notice the NFL gets hammered for handing out arbitrary punishments.

Suspending a player for obstruction was tossed in the Bountygate appeal, so if the NFL claims that part of the Brady suspension is for obstruction, they are going to face an uphill battle for that portion of the suspension.

Also, the NFL's lack of punishment for the Vikings-Panthers deflation could bite the NFL in the butt for Brady's appeal. Brady's probably going to claim that it is arbitrary for the Vikings and Panthers to get off with no punishment for ball tampering, and for him to get suspended.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brady's suspension ends up overturned completely. Wishful thinking? Maybe.

 

[12punch]

Also, the NFL's lack of punishment for the Vikings-Panthers deflation could bite the NFL in the butt for Brady's appeal. Brady's probably going to claim that it is arbitrary for the Vikings and Panthers to get off with no punishment for ball tampering, and for him to get suspended.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brady's suspension ends up overturned completely. Wishful thinking? Maybe.

that was inflation

according to people who believe in witchcraft, anyway

 

[sho nuff]

Im a Packers fan, why would i hate the Patriots?

 

[espnespn]

Also, the NFL's lack of punishment for the Vikings-Panthers deflation could bite the NFL in the butt for Brady's appeal. Brady's probably going to claim that it is arbitrary for the Vikings and Panthers to get off with no punishment for ball tampering, and for him to get suspended.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brady's suspension ends up overturned completely. Wishful thinking? Maybe.

that was inflation

according to people who believe in witchcraft, anyway

Ooops, right -- that was inflation.

 

[12punch]

One source texted ESPN's Adam Schefter saying he thinks Tom Brady's four-game suspension could be overturned altogether.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

On the issue of hate and rivalries, we know (I guess) the Colts fans (& maybe the players) hate the Pats. With this now happening, do Pats fans now hate the Colts and are they of a higher rivalry than even their division rivals? Open question.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I still say the biggest scandal here is the NFL is the one league that doesn't control it's own equipment. The league invited this, it was bound to happen and may have happened before. Competitiveness and competitive fairness is the quintessence of the NFL, it is so crucial, how can it permit such a gap in its handling of the main piece in the game? What if the ball boys for any team had been gotten to by gambling interests? It may have happened before, we have no idea. The league is doing nothing to fix this?

 

[espnespn]

One source texted ESPN's Adam Schefter saying he thinks Tom Brady's four-game suspension could be overturned altogether.

Yeah, there are a few ways for Brady to get his suspension overturned. One is to challenge the validity of the Wells Report and whether it proves Brady's guilt. But even if the Wells Report conclusion is deemed valid in appeals, the arbitrariness of the punishments can be enough to toss the suspension (a la Bountygate, where Tagliabue said the players did it, but still overturned their suspensions.)

 

[12punch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcFnvULy8zA

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I still say the biggest scandal here is the NFL is the one league that doesn't control it's own equipment.

Well considering the refs had the equipment and it was STOLEN and then manipulated and returned, not sure much would change if they had it from jump street.

It could still very well be stolen and manipulated when it was in the officials dressing room. Its like that in all sports really.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Goodell did bountygate not Tags and the suspensions wee overturned because he was forced to do so in court where it was clear he was full if bs, just like AP, just like Rice, et cetera.

 

[espnespn]

On the issue of hate and rivalries, we know (I guess) the Colts fans (& maybe the players) hate the Pats. With this now happening, do Pats fans now hate the Colts and are they of a higher rivalry than even their division rivals? Open question.

Eh, I don't dislike the Colts any more than before. To be honest, after Peyton left the Colts, the games seemed less competitive, so it was harder to be fired up over those games.

 

[12punch]

I still say the biggest scandal here is the NFL is the one league that doesn't control it's own equipment. The league invited this, it was bound to happen and may have happened before. Competitiveness and competitive fairness is the quintessence of the NFL, it is so crucial, how can it permit such a gap in its handling of the main piece in the game? What if the ball boys for any team had been gotten to by gambling interests? It may have happened before, we have no idea. The league is doing nothing to fix this?

I'm not really sure what influence a ball boy would have on a game

would he be greasing up teh balls with crisco, or something?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I still say the biggest scandal here is the NFL is the one league that doesn't control it's own equipment.

Well considering the refs had the equipment and it was STOLEN and then manipulated and returned, not sure much would change if they had it from jump street.

It could still very well be stolen and manipulated when it was in the officials dressing room. Its like that in all sports really.

And isn't it being suggested this went on all year? And the refs did and do nothing? And the league lets teams scruff, brush, beat, waterlog, dunk and tan balks to their QBs' specs in advance anyway?

Please every sport should have one ball/puck/shuttlecock/whatever and everyone plays with the same ball.

Not the NFL though.

 

[espnespn]

Goodell did bountygate not Tags and the suspensions wee overturned because he was forced to do so in court where it was clear he was full if bs, just like AP, just like Rice, et cetera.

Tags did the appeals for Bountygate.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8736662/paul-tagliabue-vacates-new-orleans-players-bounty-penalties

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Cause they started much lower and then the atmospheric conditions in conjuction with a different gauge recorded an even lower number.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

Tom called Jestremski after Jestremski texted him, after deflategate blew up.

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

Because it was coordinated? Why were the Colts the only team to bring this up? Why did the NFL disregard it?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

An attempt at parity and appeasement.

An attempt at parity?

 

[sho nuff]

Goodell did bountygate not Tags and the suspensions wee overturned because he was forced to do so in court where it was clear he was full if bs, just like AP, just like Rice, et cetera.

No way the patriots want this in court or to find out what the ball boys would say on the stand.

 

[12punch]

On the issue of hate and rivalries, we know (I guess) the Colts fans (& maybe the players) hate the Pats. With this now happening, do Pats fans now hate the Colts and are they of a higher rivalry than even their division rivals? Open question.

people are all different, and I don't like to think I speak for everyone, but we had a pretty great rivalry going when peyton was there, and I think that's pretty much evaporated.

they were pitiful the one year, and I believe pats have played luck 4x and the average winning margin is 29 points, so I'm not sure what kind of rivalry that would be.

that's like some sec school having a rivalry with one of those real schools they play week 1 that have the band guys play football.

I do currently hate their management, and wish to see them blown out by 80, but I have nothing against the players.

 

[12punch]

I still say the biggest scandal here is the NFL is the one league that doesn't control it's own equipment.

Well considering the refs had the equipment and it was STOLEN and then manipulated and returned, not sure much would change if they had it from jump street.

It could still very well be stolen and manipulated when it was in the officials dressing room. Its like that in all sports really.

And isn't it being suggested this went on all year? And the refs did and do nothing? And the league lets teams scruff, brush, beat, waterlog, dunk and tan balks to their QBs' specs in advance anyway?

Please every sport should have one ball/puck/shuttlecock/whatever and everyone plays with the same ball.

Not the NFL though.

well, they used to do that

I don't know #### about golf but do they bring their own clubs or are they issued at the door?

don't jockeys bring their own horse?

 

[Run It Up]

Goodell did bountygate not Tags and the suspensions wee overturned because he was forced to do so in court where it was clear he was full if bs, just like AP, just like Rice, et cetera.

No way the patriots want this in court or to find out what the ball boys would say on the stand.

I think they would much rather drag the NFL out into the light and show how petty the #### the Patriots are accused of in comparison to the status quo.

 

[12punch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U0POLfr46A

 

[Jrodicus]

Wonder how much ESPN is going to pay Deflator for an interview...

 

[The General]

I am just amazed that anyone out there thinks nothing happened.

Why are the two ball boys suspended? because of the NFLs determination that the Patriots broke the rules

Why did Tom's agent scream that this was a sting operation? because the NFL didn't handle it the same way they did other investigations. They apparently allowed half of a championship game to be played with underinflated footballs, which implies that they either didn't think it was that big a deal - or that they prioritized penalizing the Patriots higher than having a fair championship game

(Doesn't that word by itself state that they were caught doing something)no, but it implies that the league knew the outcome of their investigation before starting it. That could imply guilt, or that they never intended to give the Patriots a fair investigation

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls? because the Colts balls started at a higher psi, they knew they had submitted a complaint, and not all of their balls were tested

Why would Goodell intentionally go after his friend? The one who likely got him the job and a big raise.because the league knew that this was his friend who likely got him the job and the big raise. but more importantly, because the league bows to the court of public opinion on these matters. ray rice knocks out his girlfriend. He gets two games. The public sees the tapes, the suspension changes. the same thing happened with spygate, bountygate, the Peterson scandal, and more.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?i would imagine that if a national news story broke, implicating you as a cheater due to an equipment violation, you'd talk to the equipment manager too. A long phone call isn't evidence of wrong doing.

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?several reasons, but one simple one is that it was a cold wet day and they understood how weather works

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

The world is talking about the nfl during the NHL and NBA postseason, thanks in part to the timing of this report. the nfl benefits from drama, and from having heroes and villains. The Patriots make good villains, and several major media markets already hate them.

Why is one of the ball boys nick-named the deflator? this is one of the big questions, but it still doesn't mean that he deflated anything below the legal limits on game day. him not being made available makes this look much worse

What were the texts about if not deflating the footballs?could be lots of things. I know a guy who sent a work email referring to his friend Carlos as an offensive term related to the humidity of his posterior torso. People say stupid things in emails and texts. But this is certainly worth further investigation.

one possible explanation that fits all the rumors and the nickname, though, is that the pats did exactly what was discussed at the start of this thread - they deflated balls to 12.5 psi for cold weather games to pass the referee inspection, knowing that the psi would drop mid game. It would explain why people think they have done this in the past, why he got a nickname, why their balls dropped a much as they did, and lots of other stuff, and it was widely suspected earlier in the thread - but they may have felt it was technically legal. And they may have felt that sending the ball boy back to wells would only hurt their cause.

Why didn't Tom (screened through his agent) release the texts that had to do with this (Wells specifically stated he did not need the phone nor wanted to see personal information)?his agent already answered this, but basically they felt that the nfl demanding to see the personal phone of an nflpa rep set a dangerous precedent, and they felt that printing out some subset of harmless texts would only make it look like he refused to share "the good stuff". if wells and the nfl chose to interpret that as guilt, why would you think they would interpret a bunch of "safe" texts as innocence?

Why was Wells not allowed to interview McNally a second time (you know to ask about the texts where he is called the deflator among other things)?I don't know, and again, this is the troubling part of the investigation to me. I can concoct several reasons, but they're wild speculation. For example, they might have been concerned that the guy who had texted about talking to ESPN might actually have been bought and paid for, and that those texts were bogus. Or they might have felt like the three month investigation into the psi of balls on a wet cold day was a kangaroo court, and that they'd already provided wells with all the McNally time they were going to give. its plausible, but this is clearly the area where I have the most questions, too

You want to convince me. Take a lie detector test. Because everything else sounds like damage control trying to protect the legacies of the Patriots and their star quarterback. When you fight this hard, yet still won't really cooperate to find the truth, you are guilty. I don't think a lie detector would change anything. Too many people have already made up their minds. And there's no chance the Patriots win anything significant on appeal when Goodell appoints the arbiter, so I don't expect anything to change.

And I can live with that. Public opinion is fickle, and while a handful of vocal fans are saying bradys reputation is irreparably damaged, I think he will still be considered the greatest of all time by most of the people who weren't already predisposed not to. I've enjoyed the success and I don't find any of this particularly troubling - if anything, I think docking the Patriots two firsts and a fourth for the location of a perfectly legal cameraman and the cold weather psi reading of the game balls is more penalty than any advantage either of those things would have ever given them, but reasonable people can differ.

But the Patriots sound like they're thinking about fighting this, and I'm intrigued like everyone else. If this really is all bull ####, then im interested to see if they can turn the tables. I doubt it, but I'll be watching.

Delusional but still :golfclap:

 

[Jrodicus]

On the issue of hate and rivalries, we know (I guess) the Colts fans (& maybe the players) hate the Pats. With this now happening, do Pats fans now hate the Colts and are they of a higher rivalry than even their division rivals? Open question.

people are all different, and I don't like to think I speak for everyone, but we had a pretty great rivalry going when peyton was there, and I think that's pretty much evaporated.

they were pitiful the one year, and I believe pats have played luck 4x and the average winning margin is 29 points, so I'm not sure what kind of rivalry that would be.

that's like some sec school having a rivalry with one of those real schools they play week 1 that have the band guys play football.

I do currently hate their management, and wish to see them blown out by 80, but I have nothing against the players.

I've met quite a few Pats fans at Colts home games over the years. All fans can dish it out, but most can't take it. Jets and Seahawks fans talked a ton of crap, but headed for the door early. Pats fans at least stay to the end and can be gracious losers (even after the 4th and 2 game, some Pats fans congratulated us on the win).

I can't speak for their home crowd, but the ones that have traveled to Indy aren't even in the top 5 for douchenaggery, imo.

 

[Tango]

Brady seemed to a good leader.

But I heard some things today that dont seem right:

(1) McNally and Jastremski get suspended May 6th. At this point, even if you're innocent (which he's not), shouldnt Brady...being the great leader or just nice human being...raise his hand and say "No, this is not acceptable. I made it known to these two guys how I liked the football and in their efforts to please the greatest QB on the planet...and though I know nothing about the details, it's possible that they may have gone too far . They did this because of me, it's unacceptable for them to take the heat when it was me who caused it. I take full responsibility and will accept any punishment if rules were actually broken"

(2) So these guys get the news May 6th; one who gets his only paycheck from the Patriots and wait for Tom to speak up.

(3) May 7th rolls around and Tom is finally going to speak and take the heat off of them as a good leader would obviously do. Their wives are hoping too of course and trusting that the beloved Brady of Boston will of course do the right thing. And....he speaks...and he cares so little about these guys that he didnt bother to read the report. The wives presumably break down in tears.

Sorry guys, but Tom Brady is no leader.

If he paid them hush money instead to take care of them....well, that doesnt look too good for Tom either, does it?

 

[Run It Up]

But the Patriots sound like they're thinking about fighting this, and I'm intrigued like everyone else. If this really is all bull ####, then im interested to see if they can turn the tables. I doubt it, but I'll be watching.

Bated breath.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I still say the biggest scandal here is the NFL is the one league that doesn't control it's own equipment.

Well considering the refs had the equipment and it was STOLEN and then manipulated and returned, not sure much would change if they had it from jump street.

It could still very well be stolen and manipulated when it was in the officials dressing room. Its like that in all sports really.

And isn't it being suggested this went on all year? And the refs did and do nothing? And the league lets teams scruff, brush, beat, waterlog, dunk and tan balks to their QBs' specs in advance anyway?

Please every sport should have one ball/puck/shuttlecock/whatever and everyone plays with the same ball.

Not the NFL though.

well, they used to do that

I don't know #### about golf but do they bring their own clubs or are they issued at the door?

don't jockeys bring their own horse?

I'm guessing this has been posted in lo these many pages but just look at the care and love and total furbishing that Eli Manning's balls were reported get in 2013 (sans strippers). When did they win the SB again?

■ The new ball is rubbed vigorously for 45 minutes with a dark brush, which removes the wax and darkens the leather.

■ Next, a wet towel is used to scour the ball until the ball’s outer surface is soaked through.

“You’re not done until the ball is waterlogged and water will no longer bead on it,” Ed Skiba said.

■ While the ball is wet, it is brushed again.

■ Then the ball is taken over to an electric spin wheel, where it undergoes another high-speed scrubbing.

At this point, the ball is put aside overnight. Then the process is repeated twice over the next couple of days.

About five days after it was removed from its box, the ball might go into the rotation of footballs used in a Giants practice. The goal is to get the new balls banged around, thrown and dropped in the grass and dirt. The players rough up the ball and sweat on it, which helps the aging.

In practice, various balls are in varying stages of being broken in — curing like a pigskin — and all the while, the Skibas are feeling the footballs, waiting to see if one might qualify for Manning’s special bag of footballs.

“You’re always looking for pearls, chasing after the perfect one,” Joe Skiba said. “Meanwhile, every ball Eli is practicing with feels very much like the game balls. So they’re candidates, too. Sometimes he’ll turn around and flip one to me and say, ‘That’s a good one.’ Sometimes, he wants me to throw a ball away, too.

“And we never let him throw a ball in a game that he hasn’t already thrown in practice and liked.”

Golf has regulation balls and you can't work them. Talkin' balls here.

Golfers can't groove or etch their clubs or club heads to their liking. That is forbidden.

The horse is basically the player. It would be as if the jockeys could go with lighter or no saddles to make the horse lighter.