Patriots being investigated after Colts game (4 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Goodell did bountygate not Tags and the suspensions wee overturned because he was forced to do so in court where it was clear he was full if bs, just like AP, just like Rice, et cetera.

Tags did the appeals for Bountygate.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8736662/paul-tagliabue-vacates-new-orleans-players-bounty-penalties

Yeah, the former NFL commish saved the current NFL's commish's a33 just as he was about to be forced to testify in federal court. Wow that was some fortunate, unbiased timing there.

 

[Bayhawks]

I am just amazed that anyone out there thinks nothing happened.

Why are the two ball boys suspended? because of the NFLs determination that the Patriots broke the rules

Why did Tom's agent scream that this was a sting operation? because the NFL didn't handle it the same way they did other investigations. They apparently allowed half of a championship game to be played with underinflated footballs, which implies that they either didn't think it was that big a deal - or that they prioritized penalizing the Patriots higher than having a fair championship game

(Doesn't that word by itself state that they were caught doing something)no, but it implies that the league knew the outcome of their investigation before starting it. That could imply guilt, or that they never intended to give the Patriots a fair investigation

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls? because the Colts balls started at a higher psi, they knew they had submitted a complaint, and not all of their balls were tested

Why would Goodell intentionally go after his friend? The one who likely got him the job and a big raise.because the league knew that this was his friend who likely got him the job and the big raise. but more importantly, because the league bows to the court of public opinion on these matters. ray rice knocks out his girlfriend. He gets two games. The public sees the tapes, the suspension changes. the same thing happened with spygate, bountygate, the Peterson scandal, and more.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?i would imagine that if a national news story broke, implicating you as a cheater due to an equipment violation, you'd talk to the equipment manager too. A long phone call isn't evidence of wrong doing.

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?several reasons, but one simple one is that it was a cold wet day and they understood how weather works

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating? The world is talking about the nfl during the NHL and NBA postseason, thanks in part to the timing of this report. the nfl benefits from drama, and from having heroes and villains. The Patriots make good villains, and several major media markets already hate them.

Why is one of the ball boys nick-named the deflator? this is one of the big questions, but it still doesn't mean that he deflated anything below the legal limits on game day. him not being made available makes this look much worse

What were the texts about if not deflating the footballs?could be lots of things. I know a guy who sent a work email referring to his friend Carlos as an offensive term related to the humidity of his posterior torso. People say stupid things in emails and texts. But this is certainly worth further investigation.

one possible explanation that fits all the rumors and the nickname, though, is that the pats did exactly what was discussed at the start of this thread - they deflated balls to 12.5 psi for cold weather games to pass the referee inspection, knowing that the psi would drop mid game. It would explain why people think they have done this in the past, why he got a nickname, why their balls dropped a much as they did, and lots of other stuff, and it was widely suspected earlier in the thread - but they may have felt it was technically legal. And they may have felt that sending the ball boy back to wells would only hurt their cause.

Why didn't Tom (screened through his agent) release the texts that had to do with this (Wells specifically stated he did not need the phone nor wanted to see personal information)?his agent already answered this, but basically they felt that the nfl demanding to see the personal phone of an nflpa rep set a dangerous precedent, and they felt that printing out some subset of harmless texts would only make it look like he refused to share "the good stuff". if wells and the nfl chose to interpret that as guilt, why would you think they would interpret a bunch of "safe" texts as innocence?

Why was Wells not allowed to interview McNally a second time (you know to ask about the texts where he is called the deflator among other things)?I don't know, and again, this is the troubling part of the investigation to me. I can concoct several reasons, but they're wild speculation. For example, they might have been concerned that the guy who had texted about talking to ESPN might actually have been bought and paid for, and that those texts were bogus. Or they might have felt like the three month investigation into the psi of balls on a wet cold day was a kangaroo court, and that they'd already provided wells with all the McNally time they were going to give. its plausible, but this is clearly the area where I have the most questions, too

You want to convince me. Take a lie detector test. Because everything else sounds like damage control trying to protect the legacies of the Patriots and their star quarterback. When you fight this hard, yet still won't really cooperate to find the truth, you are guilty. I don't think a lie detector would change anything. Too many people have already made up their minds. And there's no chance the Patriots win anything significant on appeal when Goodell appoints the arbiter, so I don't expect anything to change.

And I can live with that. Public opinion is fickle, and while a handful of vocal fans are saying bradys reputation is irreparably damaged, I think he will still be considered the greatest of all time by most of the people who weren't already predisposed not to. I've enjoyed the success and I don't find any of this particularly troubling - if anything, I think docking the Patriots two firsts and a fourth for the location of a perfectly legal cameraman and the cold weather psi reading of the game balls is more penalty than any advantage either of those things would have ever given them, but reasonable people can differ.

But the Patriots sound like they're thinking about fighting this, and I'm intrigued like everyone else. If this really is all bull ####, then im interested to see if they can turn the tables. I doubt it, but I'll be watching.

These are some decent points, and have me re-thinking my position. Not that it matters, but if someone could provide some better answers for these final 2 questions, one non-Pats fan may agree with the idea that Brady isn't guilty.

1-Brady not allowing Wells access to paper copies of his cell/text records. The excuse about setting a bad precedent for the NFLPA doesn't work. Brady refused the advice/counsel of the NFLPA during the investigation, it doesn't make sense that he would risk himself and his legacy to avoid setting a bad precedent. The excuse that Yee gave about them thinking Wells wouldn't believe them if they turned over records that did not show what he expected is weak, too. By not giving the records, they let Wells draw the conclusion that Brady was hiding something; the exact conclusion they thought he would draw from producing records that showed no deflate gate guilt.

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

So there it is; those are the 2 major issues I still have. Ther are enough questions about the other issues to make me question how accurate the Wells report was, but those 2 issues seem to be clear indications of Brady's (& NEs) culpability. If Pats fans ( or anyone else) cab provide reasonable explanations for those 2 issues, you would have swayed 1 man.

 

[Tango]

Most people are where you are Bayhawks.

The wells report has holes

It's possible Brady is innocent

But when you add it ALL up, it's pretty clear from (1) what Wells found out (with NFL support, but not subpoena power) and (2) without cooperation and (3) from Brady's weak defense...that Brady knew.

But no question there are holes and anything is possible.

 

[Run It Up]

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

This isn't true. Mcnally told the NFL he would make himself available for an interview over the phone and Wells told him no.

 

[Tango]

Most people are where you are Bayhawks.

The wells report has holes

It's possible Brady is innocent

But when you add it ALL up, it's pretty clear from (1) what Wells found out (with NFL support, but not subpoena power) and (2) without cooperation and (3) from Brady's weak defense...that Brady knew.

But no question there are holes and anything is possible.

PS it's difficult to write stuff like this because some Patriots fans don't seem to understand nuance

 

[The General]

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

This isn't true. Mcnally told the NFL he would make himself available for an interview over the phone and Wells told him no.

Hadn't seen this. Where is that from?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Most people are where you are Bayhawks.

The wells report has holes

It's possible Brady is innocent

But when you add it ALL up, it's pretty clear from (1) what Wells found out (with NFL support, but not subpoena power) and (2) without cooperation and (3) from Brady's weak defense...that Brady knew.

But no question there are holes and anything is possible.

PS it's difficult to write stuff like this because some Patriots fans don't seem to understand nuance

Cant blame them, they are getting their entire fandom and biggest sports hero totally shit upon. But we keep trying anyhow.,

 

[Run It Up]

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

This isn't true. Mcnally told the NFL he would make himself available for an interview over the phone and Wells told him no.

Hadn't seen this. Where is that from?

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

 

[bostonfred]

Regarding 1, I don't for a minute believe that printing a bunch of texts out that said "hi dad, no, don't listen to this crap on tv, I'm innocent" would have swayed the investigation. It could only hurt his case if they found something that could be twisted to sound bad. Its a bogus offer that makes wells sounds magnanimous but can you imagine any scenario where brady prints out a text that convinces wells he's innocent?

Regarding 2, I agree that that's the million dollar question. we don't have any clear answer why that happened that way, but I can give several answers. it could be a bogus point on several levels. Maybe the pats were afraid of what he'd day, but they already allowed him to talk to Wells. Was it the revelation of the texts? Did he try to get paid, knowing he'd lose his job either way? Did wells tell them that the texts called him the delayed and they said #### off, this investigation is over? I have a hard time concocting a reason they'd allow weeps to talk to him once but not twice if they were worried about what he'd say and nothing had changed, so what do you think actually changed? I don't think we know the details right now but something obviously changed.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

So he refused.

 

[Run It Up]

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

So he refused.

After being denied an alternative that still would have provided them with what they wanted, yes.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This is from an article in the 9/2/08 KC Star:

Science of sports: The footballIt's a pretty safe bet that you won't hear any football coach utter this phrase: "That's the way the prolate spheroid bounces!"
Yet, that's one reason why football is so unpredictable and fun.
A football's shape is called a prolate spheroid, which is a spheroid with a polar diameter longer than its equatorial diameter. While a true prolate spheroid has rounded edges, a football has pointed ends.

...

"In 1935, the NFL shortened the ball's short axis to between 21 1/4 and 21 1/2 inches. The ball's length was shortened that year to between 11 and 11 1/4 inches, and the amount of air that it could hold was set at 12.5 to 13.5 psi. Its long axis of 28 to 28 1/2 inches, however, did not change. These dimensions remain today, as does the ball's shape, which has been called a 'prolate spheroid' since 1890."

Question: since 1935 how many times has the NFL investigated a charge that balls were not kept to the 12.5-13.5 standard?

 

[bostonfred]

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

This isn't true. Mcnally told the NFL he would make himself available for an interview over the phone and Wells told him no.

Hadn't seen this. Where is that from?

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

this is an even simpler answer

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

So he refused.

After being denied an alternative that still would have provided them with what they wanted, yes.

They asked for an interview (face-to-face) and he refused.

It doesn't matter if he offered to use a phone, textmessages, skype smoke-signals or email. He refused a 2nd interview.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

...Hell, this underinflated ball thing (IF he was specifically telling them to do just that) could have all been in Brady's head and just a matter of feeling better to him. ...

Wouldn't Brady feeling better about the balls in and of itself be an advantage? Apparently he notices the differences to be unpleasant when they aren't to his liking.

 

[The General]

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

This isn't true. Mcnally told the NFL he would make himself available for an interview over the phone and Wells told him no.

Hadn't seen this. Where is that from?

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

That doesn't jibe with what the Well's guy wrote. Either "A league source" is wrong or Wells was misleading in his report.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

.... And when things aren't perfect he's in a funk and making life miserable for the little people. So the little people do something stupid to shut him up.

Exactly.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

 

[bostonfred]

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

So he refused.

After being denied an alternative that still would have provided them with what they wanted, yes.

They asked for an interview (face-to-face) and he refused.

It doesn't matter if he offered to use a phone, textmessages, skype smoke-signals or email. He refused a 2nd interview.

sure, you are right in your semantic argument. If refusing an interview were a crime, he would be guilty. But that's not what's being discussed. The question is whether him refusing the interview implies that he had something to hide. Refusing a face to face interview bit being available for a phone interview isn't nearly as concerning as refusing an interview altogether, or the team refusing to let wells talk to him, both of which have been mentioned in this thread. If that's not what happened, then the technicality you're arguing seems petty.

 

[The General]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Why not let the balls be the way a QB wants them? Just make sure they are within the rules and then the Refs take them. This isn't difficult.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Why not let the balls be the way a QB wants them? Just make sure they are within the rules and then the Refs take them. This isn't difficult.

Yes. That was the old rule, one set of balls. What kind of pro sports league lets this happen? "Hey you over there get your balls, and you over here get your balls, but don't touch them after you've been roughing them for a week!"

It's absurd, reliable leagues and sports have a single piece of equipment and both teams play with the same equipment.

The NFL changed the rule so the QBs could alter them, specifically to their preference. The NFL wanted the balls to fly, to make the game entertaining, to make money, competition be damned. The problem is their little ruse was called out in public, in the news, and they were embarrassed, that's when Goodell acts.

 

[12punch]

2-NE not allowing Wells a 2nd interview with Mcnulty (sp?). The "we didn't to take him away from work excuse doesn't fly," he's a grown man, let him make that decision. They didn't even tell him Wells asked for another interview. The idea that Mcnulty was "in on it," does not make sense either, because if he was "in on it," the NFL would find another way to get Mcnulty to say "Tom told me to do it!"

This isn't true. Mcnally told the NFL he would make himself available for an interview over the phone and Wells told him no.

wtf...I never heard that

that's true??

 

[Run It Up]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Because before they changed the rule the home team was responsible for preparing the balls. Which led to teams preparing balls only the way they liked them. Which led to the rule change.

If you want both teams to use fresh out of the box balls everyone will hate it because balls have to be broken in to be used competitively, they are covered in layers of different kinds of material that make the ball slick. It would be fair, but unfun.

Granted if the league wanted to prepare the balls for both teams that would be fine imo.

 

[12punch]

This is from an article in the 9/2/08 KC Star:

Science of sports: The footballIt's a pretty safe bet that you won't hear any football coach utter this phrase: "That's the way the prolate spheroid bounces!"

Yet, that's one reason why football is so unpredictable and fun.

A football's shape is called a prolate spheroid, which is a spheroid with a polar diameter longer than its equatorial diameter. While a true prolate spheroid has rounded edges, a football has pointed ends.

...

"In 1935, the NFL shortened the ball's short axis to between 21 1/4 and 21 1/2 inches. The ball's length was shortened that year to between 11 and 11 1/4 inches, and the amount of air that it could hold was set at 12.5 to 13.5 psi. Its long axis of 28 to 28 1/2 inches, however, did not change. These dimensions remain today, as does the ball's shape, which has been called a 'prolate spheroid' since 1890."

Question: since 1935 how many times has the NFL investigated a charge that balls were not kept to the 12.5-13.5 standard?

I'll guess 1

wait....'investigated'?

0

 

[12punch]

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

So he refused.

After being denied an alternative that still would have provided them with what they wanted, yes.

They asked for an interview (face-to-face) and he refused.

It doesn't matter if he offered to use a phone, textmessages, skype smoke-signals or email. He refused a 2nd interview.

ummmmm.....wat

btw, didn't you just tell us pats didn't even tell him an interview as requested therefore guilty?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Because before they changed the rule the home team was responsible for preparing the balls. Which led to teams preparing balls only the way they liked them. Which led to the rule change.

If you want both teams to use fresh out of the box balls everyone will hate it because balls have to be broken in to be used competitively, they are covered in layers of different kinds of material that make the ball slick. It would be fair, but unfun.

Granted if the league wanted to prepare the balls for both teams that would be fine imo.

Doesn't MLB do this with baseballs?

http://www.baseballrubbingmud.com/

 

[The General]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Why not let the balls be the way a QB wants them? Just make sure they are within the rules and then the Refs take them. This isn't difficult.

Yes. That was the old rule, one set of balls. What kind of pro sports league lets this happen? "Hey you over there get your balls, and you over here get your balls, but don't touch them after you've been roughing them for a week!"

It's absurd, reliable leagues and sports have a single piece of equipment and both teams play with the same equipment.

The NFL changed the rule so the QBs could alter them, specifically to their preference. The NFL wanted the balls to fly, to make the game entertaining, to make money, competition be damned. The problem is their little ruse was called out in public, in the news, and they were embarrassed, that's when Goodell acts.

They change the rule because home teams provided the balls and QB's were implying that when on the road they would get a new ball at suspect times in games. The new balls being more slick.

If the rules are agreed upon and followed what's the difference if a team gets the ball they want?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Because it was changed during an era dominated by top defenses and boring offenses.

ETA: Where most rule changes come from.

 

[12punch]

The NFL changed the rule so the QBs could alter them, specifically to their preference. The NFL wanted the balls to fly, to make the game entertaining, to make money, competition be damned. The problem is their little ruse was called out in public, in the news, and they were embarrassed, that's when Goodell acts.
.

if they score more points there's less competition?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Why not let the balls be the way a QB wants them? Just make sure they are within the rules and then the Refs take them. This isn't difficult.

Yes. That was the old rule, one set of balls. What kind of pro sports league lets this happen? "Hey you over there get your balls, and you over here get your balls, but don't touch them after you've been roughing them for a week!"

It's absurd, reliable leagues and sports have a single piece of equipment and both teams play with the same equipment.

The NFL changed the rule so the QBs could alter them, specifically to their preference. The NFL wanted the balls to fly, to make the game entertaining, to make money, competition be damned. The problem is their little ruse was called out in public, in the news, and they were embarrassed, that's when Goodell acts.

They change the rule because home teams provided the balls and QB's were implying that when on the road they would get a new ball at suspect times in games. The new balls being more slick.

If the rules are agreed upon and followed what's the difference if a team gets the ball they want?

I have no idea, if you're doing it already, do it. If a team roughs them, waterlogs them, etc., who cares if they take out another x psi out the ball? The rule was created in 1935 and today the league is begging no demanding the QBs tailor the balls they want to a T.

Either you play with a standard ball that everyone uses or you let teams do what they want with them.

 

[12punch]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Because before they changed the rule the home team was responsible for preparing the balls. Which led to teams preparing balls only the way they liked them. Which led to the rule change.

If you want both teams to use fresh out of the box balls everyone will hate it because balls have to be broken in to be used competitively, they are covered in layers of different kinds of material that make the ball slick. It would be fair, but unfun.

Granted if the league wanted to prepare the balls for both teams that would be fine imo.

Doesn't MLB do this with baseballs?

http://www.baseballrubbingmud.com/

my supermarket does it with oranges, too --- what's your point?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The NFL changed the rule so the QBs could alter them, specifically to their preference. The NFL wanted the balls to fly, to make the game entertaining, to make money, competition be damned. The problem is their little ruse was called out in public, in the news, and they were embarrassed, that's when Goodell acts.
.

if they score more points there's less competition?

Isn't that what we're talking about here, on the presumption that even a 11.4 psi ball is cheating? There is a competitive advantage there, right? See above, supposedly this let's Tom's kitten soft tiny hands grip the big ball properly and unfairly.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Because before they changed the rule the home team was responsible for preparing the balls. Which led to teams preparing balls only the way they liked them. Which led to the rule change.

If you want both teams to use fresh out of the box balls everyone will hate it because balls have to be broken in to be used competitively, they are covered in layers of different kinds of material that make the ball slick. It would be fair, but unfun.

Granted if the league wanted to prepare the balls for both teams that would be fine imo.

Doesn't MLB do this with baseballs?

http://www.baseballrubbingmud.com/

my supermarket does it with oranges, too --- what's your point?

The point is the league could prep these balls consistently so that both teams are playing with the same conditioned ball.

 

[rick6668]

Regarding 1, I don't for a minute believe that printing a bunch of texts out that said "hi dad, no, don't listen to this crap on tv, I'm innocent" would have swayed the investigation. It could only hurt his case if they found something that could be twisted to sound bad. Its a bogus offer that makes wells sounds magnanimous but can you imagine any scenario where brady prints out a text that convinces wells he's innocent?

I definitely think it could have helped. (If he had nothing to hide) Brady had no way of knowing whose texts they already had for sure. Likely McNally and Jastremski, but who knows who else? It's easy to see now that the report was released, but Brady could not know for sure. Asking him to supply just the texts that applied to this issue would have let Wells cross reference the texts. The only reason not to supply them is Brady at the time wasn't sure what he needed to include or not. Texts to McNally yes, but what about someone else, he doesn't know what they have and leaving things out when he is asked to include it all would look bad. So, Brady decides not to give them anything because he likely had something that would have looked bad if he included it.

 

[Run It Up]

The point is the league could prep these balls consistently so that both teams are playing with the same conditioned ball.

I agree with this, teams should either have balls prepared by the league, or teams should be able to prepare their balls however they want.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Florio article:

Per a league source, McNally was willing to be questioned again by phone, but the NFL declined the offer. For a variety of reasons — including the fact that he’d been ambushed at his home by ESPN’s Kelly Naqi based on a perceived leak from her husband, a former league-office employee who now works for the Jaguars — McNally didn’t want to submit to yet another face-to-face interview.

So he refused.

After being denied an alternative that still would have provided them with what they wanted, yes.

They asked for an interview (face-to-face) and he refused.

It doesn't matter if he offered to use a phone, textmessages, skype smoke-signals or email. He refused a 2nd interview.

ummmmm.....wat

btw, didn't you just tell us pats didn't even tell him an interview as requested therefore guilty?

Yes they asked for an interview.... he refused.

Then counter offered with different perimeters. He still refused the NFLs investoghatory request.

 

[12punch]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Because before they changed the rule the home team was responsible for preparing the balls. Which led to teams preparing balls only the way they liked them. Which led to the rule change.

If you want both teams to use fresh out of the box balls everyone will hate it because balls have to be broken in to be used competitively, they are covered in layers of different kinds of material that make the ball slick. It would be fair, but unfun.

Granted if the league wanted to prepare the balls for both teams that would be fine imo.

Doesn't MLB do this with baseballs?

http://www.baseballrubbingmud.com/

my supermarket does it with oranges, too --- what's your point?

The point is the league could prep these balls consistently so that both teams are playing with the same conditioned ball.

maybe baseball should be more like the nfl and let guys bring their own balls and it wouldn't suck so much

 

[Franknbeans]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

 

[The General]

1/21/15 AP:

FURTHER REVIEW: Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday he expects the competition committee to study whether the rule should change, but he thinks everyone should use the same balls. "It would seem to be simpler to have one set of balls, which was the case for many years," Rooney said. "The officials brought the balls out and everybody used the same ball, and it seems like that would be an easy answer to this."

DingDingDing!

Why would the NFL change this rule, why?

Why not let the balls be the way a QB wants them? Just make sure they are within the rules and then the Refs take them. This isn't difficult.

Yes. That was the old rule, one set of balls. What kind of pro sports league lets this happen? "Hey you over there get your balls, and you over here get your balls, but don't touch them after you've been roughing them for a week!"

It's absurd, reliable leagues and sports have a single piece of equipment and both teams play with the same equipment.

The NFL changed the rule so the QBs could alter them, specifically to their preference. The NFL wanted the balls to fly, to make the game entertaining, to make money, competition be damned. The problem is their little ruse was called out in public, in the news, and they were embarrassed, that's when Goodell acts.

They change the rule because home teams provided the balls and QB's were implying that when on the road they would get a new ball at suspect times in games. The new balls being more slick.

If the rules are agreed upon and followed what's the difference if a team gets the ball they want?

I have no idea, if you're doing it already, do it. If a team roughs them, waterlogs them, etc., who cares if they take out another x psi out the ball? The rule was created in 1935 and today the league is begging no demanding the QBs tailor the balls they want to a T.

Either you play with a standard ball that everyone uses or you let teams do what they want with them.

They had set rules which make sense to me. All the refs have to do is keep them.

Pats do what they do and mess it up. They got busted and are getting punished.

Keep the rules as they are just take ownership at a set point before the game after they have been measured or whatever. Seems pretty easy.

 

[12punch]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

could we stop talking nonsense, plz?

a minute ago they had him cloistered away under a fake name in the himalayas until we find out about the phone thing

 

[The General]

The point is the league could prep these balls consistently so that both teams are playing with the same conditioned ball.

I agree with this, teams should either have balls prepared by the league, or teams should be able to prepare their balls however they want.

Why does it have to be one or the other? If the Pats don't get all cheaty then this rule is fine as is. QB's wanted this change because they all like the ball a little different.

I like watching the most important player on the field perform well.

 

[The General]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

could we stop talking nonsense, plz?

a minute ago they had him cloistered away under a fake name in the himalayas until we find out about the phone thing

Are you ever right about anything?

From the report:

"During his interview, Brady denied any knowledge of or involvement in any efforts to deflate game balls after the pre-game inspection by the game officials. He claimed that prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally‟s name or anything about McNally‟s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any role relating to game balls or the game officials. We found these claims not plausible and contradicted by other evidence. In fact, during his interview, Jastremski acknowledged that Brady knew McNally and McNally‟s role as Officials Locker Room attendant. Similarly, 20 McNally told NFL Security that he had been personally told by Brady of Brady‟s inflation level preference."

 

[12punch]

I am just amazed that anyone out there thinks nothing happened.

Why are the two ball boys suspended?

Why did Tom's agent scream that this was a sting operation? (Doesn't that word by itself state that they were caught doing something)

Why were the Patriots balls much more deflated than the Colts balls?

Why would Goodell intentionally go after his friend? The one who likely got him the job and a big raise.

Why would Tom call the ball boys for an hour when the story broke nation-wide?

How would the Colts have known to alert the league office of this situation before the game was played?

What does the NFL gain by exposing their winningest team of cheating?

Why is one of the ball boys nick-named the deflator?

What were the texts about if not deflating the footballs?

Why didn't Tom (screened through his agent) release the texts that had to do with this (Wells specifically stated he did not need the phone nor wanted to see personal information)?

Why was Wells not allowed to interview McNally a second time (you know to ask about the texts where he is called the deflator among other things)?

You want to convince me. Take a lie detector test. Because everything else sounds like damage control trying to protect the legacies of the Patriots and their star quarterback. When you fight this hard, yet still won't really cooperate to find the truth, you are guilty.

looks like we got one sleuthed down

go go gadget facts

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Yeah they refused the investigators request.

Then offered a their own parameters.

 

[12punch]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

could we stop talking nonsense, plz?

a minute ago they had him cloistered away under a fake name in the himalayas until we find out about the phone thing

Are you ever right about anything?

From the report:

"During his interview, Brady denied any knowledge of or involvement in any efforts to deflate game balls after the pre-game inspection by the game officials. He claimed that prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally‟s name or anything about McNally‟s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any role relating to game balls or the game officials. We found these claims not plausible and contradicted by other evidence. In fact, during his interview, Jastremski acknowledged that Brady knew McNally and McNally‟s role as Officials Locker Room attendant. Similarly, 20 McNally told NFL Security that he had been personally told by Brady of Brady‟s inflation level preference."

bruschi says he didn't know mcnally's name either --- but that's part of the cover up

try using a little common sense, plz

 

[Run It Up]

The point is the league could prep these balls consistently so that both teams are playing with the same conditioned ball.

I agree with this, teams should either have balls prepared by the league, or teams should be able to prepare their balls however they want.

Why does it have to be one or the other? If the Pats don't get all cheaty then this rule is fine as is. QB's wanted this change because they all like the ball a little different.

I like watching the most important player on the field perform well.

It doesn't... but they are in my opinion better alternatives then allowing the current system to continue.

There are many accounts of teams just disregarding its existence. Before deflategate, the league more or less gave zero ####s about it. If they want to take it more seriously I think those are better alternatives then have the psi of balls ALWAYS in question.

 

[sho nuff]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

could we stop talking nonsense, plz?

a minute ago they had him cloistered away under a fake name in the himalayas until we find out about the phone thing

Are you ever right about anything?

From the report:

"During his interview, Brady denied any knowledge of or involvement in any efforts to deflate game balls after the pre-game inspection by the game officials. He claimed that prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally‟s name or anything about McNally‟s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any role relating to game balls or the game officials. We found these claims not plausible and contradicted by other evidence. In fact, during his interview, Jastremski acknowledged that Brady knew McNally and McNally‟s role as Officials Locker Room attendant. Similarly, 20 McNally told NFL Security that he had been personally told by Brady of Brady‟s inflation level preference."

bruschi says he didn't know mcnally's name either --- but that's part of the cover up

try using a little common sense, plz

 

[The General]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

could we stop talking nonsense, plz?

a minute ago they had him cloistered away under a fake name in the himalayas until we find out about the phone thing

Are you ever right about anything?

From the report:

"During his interview, Brady denied any knowledge of or involvement in any efforts to deflate game balls after the pre-game inspection by the game officials. He claimed that prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally‟s name or anything about McNally‟s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any role relating to game balls or the game officials. We found these claims not plausible and contradicted by other evidence. In fact, during his interview, Jastremski acknowledged that Brady knew McNally and McNally‟s role as Officials Locker Room attendant. Similarly, 20 McNally told NFL Security that he had been personally told by Brady of Brady‟s inflation level preference."

bruschi says he didn't know mcnally's name either --- but that's part of the cover up

try using a little common sense, plz

I don't even know what you are talking about or what you are trying to say.

 

[12punch]

correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Brady deny knowing who McNally was?

could we stop talking nonsense, plz?

a minute ago they had him cloistered away under a fake name in the himalayas until we find out about the phone thing

Are you ever right about anything?

From the report:

"During his interview, Brady denied any knowledge of or involvement in any efforts to deflate game balls after the pre-game inspection by the game officials. He claimed that prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally‟s name or anything about McNally‟s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any role relating to game balls or the game officials. We found these claims not plausible and contradicted by other evidence. In fact, during his interview, Jastremski acknowledged that Brady knew McNally and McNally‟s role as Officials Locker Room attendant. Similarly, 20 McNally told NFL Security that he had been personally told by Brady of Brady‟s inflation level preference."

bruschi says he didn't know mcnally's name either --- but that's part of the cover up

try using a little common sense, plz

I don't even know what you are talking about or what you are trying to say.

I have absolutely no doubt

 

[Tango]

Florio's article yesterday morning regarding the alleged McNally phone interview option for Wells was clarified by Wells later that afternoon: McNally was not made aware of the request for the second interview so McNally never made such an offer to Wells. Florio got it at least partially wrong, if not fully on that point.