PBS Frontline : The Retirement Gamble, sorta Must See (2 Viewers)

[Gawain]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Are you saying 5k is a lot?

That's a huge amount of property taxes. I'm currently in an expensive part of my state for property taxes and it would take a 750k house to get that. That size house easily gets you 7,000sq. ft. here. In the next county over 5k in taxes would mean a 2M mansion.

We want to buy three months after having a kid (fingers crossed) and are budgeting 1K a month for property tax.

 

[FUBAR]

hypothetically if you didn't have a mortgage would that be enough.

Depends on your chosen lifestyle. But sure, you could make it work.

I know I could, was curious if you thought you could. 400/wk for food and entertainment would be very comfortable living for me.

Could, sure. but i won't have to.

We live on less than $400/wk for food and entertainment now, with 6 of us.

 

[Sand]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Are you saying 5k is a lot?

That's a huge amount of property taxes. I'm currently in an expensive part of my state for property taxes and it would take a 750k house to get that. That size house easily gets you 7,000sq. ft. here. In the next county over 5k in taxes would mean a 2M mansion.

We want to buy three months after having a kid (fingers crossed) and are budgeting 1K a month for property tax.

I hope your income makes up for that. What do housing prices look like in your area? Here 80-120/sq. ft. is typical.

 

[pecorino]

Just a quick thanks to all on this board that have offered me advice throughout the years. I've made drastic changes in my planning for retirement, as in actually doing something about it. Currently contributing the max my company matches into my 401k (they match 4% if I do 5%) as well as maxing out my company's match on my HSA. I plan on maxing a ROTH IRA once I get some of my debts paid down (still owe some on my van, and obviously still owe on my house)

It's weird really. My parents never discussed it with me, no class in high school really talked about it. To the point that I never really even thought about retirement savings or planning on what would happen 40+ years from now, or hell, even basic financial management. I got a later start then I would have liked on retirement savings, but I'm feeling relatively comfortable with my current plan, and should be around the ~ million range when I do retire (according to Principal's retirement planner). Although apparently that's not enough any more.

It truly is just mind boggling how little importance we put on education with respect to retirement and just all around financial management. But I've gotten great advice in this thread plus a few others discussing overall financial management and future planning.

Thanks.

I have been thinking about these points ever since becoming a teacher 22 years ago. Teaching high school math at a private school, I have quite a bit of autonomy so I try to insert what I can about personal finance when possible, like when the topic turns to compound interest and exponential growth. But with the heavy importance placed on SAT performance and with students being pulled in many directions, finance gets short shrift when pitted up against math, English, athletics, arts, etc.

Now that I am in a position where I can actually shape a high school curriculum (kind of like a vice principal focusing on the academic program) I am still torn about how to get personal finance into the curriculum. Our parents want it--many of our clientele are wealthy and some made their bones in the business world. I'd love to have a full blown course in personal finance (credit cards, checking accounts, mortgages, inflation, saving for retirement, stocks, bonds, insurance, etc.) but at what cost? Something else would have to come out of the curriculum. We just don't have the time.

I think this is a national issue and wonder if Americans are ready to cut something from our typical high school curriculum in order to add a course like this. Is it more important to study a foreign language or personal finance? How about art or computers or math or history or science or English?And who teaches a class on personal finance--teachers don't have the training. I think it is a fascinating and important topic. For now, the best we can do is to have ancillary programs like clubs or outside speakers to try to get at some of these important ideas. If the FBGs can crack this nut, I'm all ears.

 

[fourd]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Are you saying 5k is a lot?

That's a huge amount of property taxes. I'm currently in an expensive part of my state for property taxes and it would take a 750k house to get that. That size house easily gets you 7,000sq. ft. here. In the next county over 5k in taxes would mean a 2M mansion.

Not in Illinois. Just got our bill - $11,300.

 

[fourd]

Just a quick thanks to all on this board that have offered me advice throughout the years. I've made drastic changes in my planning for retirement, as in actually doing something about it. Currently contributing the max my company matches into my 401k (they match 4% if I do 5%) as well as maxing out my company's match on my HSA. I plan on maxing a ROTH IRA once I get some of my debts paid down (still owe some on my van, and obviously still owe on my house)

It's weird really. My parents never discussed it with me, no class in high school really talked about it. To the point that I never really even thought about retirement savings or planning on what would happen 40+ years from now, or hell, even basic financial management. I got a later start then I would have liked on retirement savings, but I'm feeling relatively comfortable with my current plan, and should be around the ~ million range when I do retire (according to Principal's retirement planner). Although apparently that's not enough any more.

It truly is just mind boggling how little importance we put on education with respect to retirement and just all around financial management. But I've gotten great advice in this thread plus a few others discussing overall financial management and future planning.

Thanks.

I have been thinking about these points ever since becoming a teacher 22 years ago. Teaching high school math at a private school, I have quite a bit of autonomy so I try to insert what I can about personal finance when possible, like when the topic turns to compound interest and exponential growth. But with the heavy importance placed on SAT performance and with students being pulled in many directions, finance gets short shrift when pitted up against math, English, athletics, arts, etc.

Now that I am in a position where I can actually shape a high school curriculum (kind of like a vice principal focusing on the academic program) I am still torn about how to get personal finance into the curriculum. Our parents want it--many of our clientele are wealthy and some made their bones in the business world. I'd love to have a full blown course in personal finance (credit cards, checking accounts, mortgages, inflation, saving for retirement, stocks, bonds, insurance, etc.) but at what cost? Something else would have to come out of the curriculum. We just don't have the time.

I think this is a national issue and wonder if Americans are ready to cut something from our typical high school curriculum in order to add a course like this. Is it more important to study a foreign language or personal finance? How about art or computers or math or history or science or English?And who teaches a class on personal finance--teachers don't have the training. I think it is a fascinating and important topic. For now, the best we can do is to have ancillary programs like clubs or outside speakers to try to get at some of these important ideas. If the FBGs can crack this nut, I'm all ears.

 

[xulf]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Are you saying 5k is a lot?

That's a huge amount of property taxes. I'm currently in an expensive part of my state for property taxes and it would take a 750k house to get that. That size house easily gets you 7,000sq. ft. here. In the next county over 5k in taxes would mean a 2M mansion.

Not in Illinois. Just got our bill - $11,300.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Just a quick thanks to all on this board that have offered me advice throughout the years. I've made drastic changes in my planning for retirement, as in actually doing something about it. Currently contributing the max my company matches into my 401k (they match 4% if I do 5%) as well as maxing out my company's match on my HSA. I plan on maxing a ROTH IRA once I get some of my debts paid down (still owe some on my van, and obviously still owe on my house)

It's weird really. My parents never discussed it with me, no class in high school really talked about it. To the point that I never really even thought about retirement savings or planning on what would happen 40+ years from now, or hell, even basic financial management. I got a later start then I would have liked on retirement savings, but I'm feeling relatively comfortable with my current plan, and should be around the ~ million range when I do retire (according to Principal's retirement planner). Although apparently that's not enough any more.

It truly is just mind boggling how little importance we put on education with respect to retirement and just all around financial management. But I've gotten great advice in this thread plus a few others discussing overall financial management and future planning.

Thanks.

I have been thinking about these points ever since becoming a teacher 22 years ago. Teaching high school math at a private school, I have quite a bit of autonomy so I try to insert what I can about personal finance when possible, like when the topic turns to compound interest and exponential growth. But with the heavy importance placed on SAT performance and with students being pulled in many directions, finance gets short shrift when pitted up against math, English, athletics, arts, etc.

Now that I am in a position where I can actually shape a high school curriculum (kind of like a vice principal focusing on the academic program) I am still torn about how to get personal finance into the curriculum. Our parents want it--many of our clientele are wealthy and some made their bones in the business world. I'd love to have a full blown course in personal finance (credit cards, checking accounts, mortgages, inflation, saving for retirement, stocks, bonds, insurance, etc.) but at what cost? Something else would have to come out of the curriculum. We just don't have the time.

I think this is a national issue and wonder if Americans are ready to cut something from our typical high school curriculum in order to add a course like this. Is it more important to study a foreign language or personal finance? How about art or computers or math or history or science or English?And who teaches a class on personal finance--teachers don't have the training. I think it is a fascinating and important topic. For now, the best we can do is to have ancillary programs like clubs or outside speakers to try to get at some of these important ideas. If the FBGs can crack this nut, I'm all ears.

I'd have to see a list of mandated classes to make a decision. I think it's pretty important to learn about personal finances.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Just a quick thanks to all on this board that have offered me advice throughout the years. I've made drastic changes in my planning for retirement, as in actually doing something about it. Currently contributing the max my company matches into my 401k (they match 4% if I do 5%) as well as maxing out my company's match on my HSA. I plan on maxing a ROTH IRA once I get some of my debts paid down (still owe some on my van, and obviously still owe on my house)

It's weird really. My parents never discussed it with me, no class in high school really talked about it. To the point that I never really even thought about retirement savings or planning on what would happen 40+ years from now, or hell, even basic financial management. I got a later start then I would have liked on retirement savings, but I'm feeling relatively comfortable with my current plan, and should be around the ~ million range when I do retire (according to Principal's retirement planner). Although apparently that's not enough any more.

It truly is just mind boggling how little importance we put on education with respect to retirement and just all around financial management. But I've gotten great advice in this thread plus a few others discussing overall financial management and future planning.

Thanks.

I have been thinking about these points ever since becoming a teacher 22 years ago. Teaching high school math at a private school, I have quite a bit of autonomy so I try to insert what I can about personal finance when possible, like when the topic turns to compound interest and exponential growth. But with the heavy importance placed on SAT performance and with students being pulled in many directions, finance gets short shrift when pitted up against math, English, athletics, arts, etc.

Now that I am in a position where I can actually shape a high school curriculum (kind of like a vice principal focusing on the academic program) I am still torn about how to get personal finance into the curriculum. Our parents want it--many of our clientele are wealthy and some made their bones in the business world. I'd love to have a full blown course in personal finance (credit cards, checking accounts, mortgages, inflation, saving for retirement, stocks, bonds, insurance, etc.) but at what cost? Something else would have to come out of the curriculum. We just don't have the time.

I think this is a national issue and wonder if Americans are ready to cut something from our typical high school curriculum in order to add a course like this. Is it more important to study a foreign language or personal finance? How about art or computers or math or history or science or English?And who teaches a class on personal finance--teachers don't have the training. I think it is a fascinating and important topic. For now, the best we can do is to have ancillary programs like clubs or outside speakers to try to get at some of these important ideas. If the FBGs can crack this nut, I'm all ears.

I've actually drafted an outline for a book.....no lie here's the first draft of the intro section (literally the first draft....haven't made any edits) - who knows where it will go....but anyway:

--------------------------

Let me say this first: My vision is for this book to be the framework for a personal finance course to be taught in every high school/college in the country. Lofty vision....of course....but the more I get entrenched in personal finance, the more aggravated I get that I never had a true personal finance course ever in the 20+ years of education I had.

I think of all of the people who could have avoided having gone upside down on their homes in the past few years because they signed horrible mortgages. I think about all of the people who blindly put things on their credit card and pay the minimum balance b/c they just accept all of the credit card marketing as gospel. I think about all of the people who put more research into the $1000 TV they are about to purchase than they do the $25,000 car they bought after 1 trip to the dealership. I think of all of these people and I realize how much money these people would have saved with even the most basic personal finance knowledge.

My favorite personal finance story was when I was walking from my office to my parking garage with a colleague who said that she wanted to buy a new car. In our 7 minute walk, I asked her a bunch of questions and had her convinced that buying a new car was irresponsible and not a good purchasing decision at all.

I'm lucky enough to have had responsible finance embedded in me since I was young. Both of my parents worked in the banking industry in some capacity. I still remember the first time my parents told me the concept of savings accounts. My response: “You mean the banks will pay me to put my money there?” I was hooked.

In college, some of my friends had the audacity to call me cheap. What they didn't know that I wasn't cheap at all, in fact....I was all about value. I liked (and still like) to get the most out of my $1. Cheap people only buy the things they absolutely need. Smart people get the most return on their money on what they want to purchase.

I imagine I'm not the typical person who writes about personal finance. I don’t have any official certifications, I don’t play the stock market and one of my favorite hobbies is gambling. I'm not a gambling genius by any means, and I'm pretty sure that over time I've lost more money than I've won.....but that's ok, b/c the money I gamble with is money I have set aside to do whatever I want with it. It's all about accountability on how and where you spend your money.

Personal Finance has been my hobby for as long as I can remember. There are thousands of books, hundreds of blogs, and dozens of experts who all have different methodologies on the subject. I've done my best to try to take all of the information that I’ve absorbed over time, combine that with all of my personal finance experiences and consolidate them into an easy-to-read book.

I've separated each of the chapters into a different personal finance lesson. Throughout each chapter, I'm sure I'll mention specific products, brand names and companies. Rest assured that I have not been compensated by any of these companies to put them in my book. If I write about it, it will be my about my true experience with them

While I don't expect you take everything I say as gospel, I'm certain that you will learn some things that will pay for the cost of this book exponentially.

Hope you enjoy it and it saves you tons of money!

 

[NutterButter]

Just a quick thanks to all on this board that have offered me advice throughout the years. I've made drastic changes in my planning for retirement, as in actually doing something about it. Currently contributing the max my company matches into my 401k (they match 4% if I do 5%) as well as maxing out my company's match on my HSA. I plan on maxing a ROTH IRA once I get some of my debts paid down (still owe some on my van, and obviously still owe on my house)

It's weird really. My parents never discussed it with me, no class in high school really talked about it. To the point that I never really even thought about retirement savings or planning on what would happen 40+ years from now, or hell, even basic financial management. I got a later start then I would have liked on retirement savings, but I'm feeling relatively comfortable with my current plan, and should be around the ~ million range when I do retire (according to Principal's retirement planner). Although apparently that's not enough any more.

It truly is just mind boggling how little importance we put on education with respect to retirement and just all around financial management. But I've gotten great advice in this thread plus a few others discussing overall financial management and future planning.

Thanks.

I have been thinking about these points ever since becoming a teacher 22 years ago. Teaching high school math at a private school, I have quite a bit of autonomy so I try to insert what I can about personal finance when possible, like when the topic turns to compound interest and exponential growth. But with the heavy importance placed on SAT performance and with students being pulled in many directions, finance gets short shrift when pitted up against math, English, athletics, arts, etc.

Now that I am in a position where I can actually shape a high school curriculum (kind of like a vice principal focusing on the academic program) I am still torn about how to get personal finance into the curriculum. Our parents want it--many of our clientele are wealthy and some made their bones in the business world. I'd love to have a full blown course in personal finance (credit cards, checking accounts, mortgages, inflation, saving for retirement, stocks, bonds, insurance, etc.) but at what cost? Something else would have to come out of the curriculum. We just don't have the time.

I think this is a national issue and wonder if Americans are ready to cut something from our typical high school curriculum in order to add a course like this. Is it more important to study a foreign language or personal finance? How about art or computers or math or history or science or English?And who teaches a class on personal finance--teachers don't have the training. I think it is a fascinating and important topic. For now, the best we can do is to have ancillary programs like clubs or outside speakers to try to get at some of these important ideas. If the FBGs can crack this nut, I'm all ears.

in the catholic high school i attended, we had a religion course once a year. one of those could have been easily yanked out. what's the listing of classes that the kids are taking senior year?

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

 

[KCitons]

Re: parents teaching their kids about retirement.

My dad started having me put away $25 a month into a retirement fund when I was 16. He'd just say we'll look at it in 5 years and you'll see how much you've made... 5 years later I had lost about 50% of that money. Made me think retirement savings was a bunch of bull#### and turned me off it in mid-20s.

What's it worth right now? Judging from your avatar, you should be nearing retirement. (and with a good pension from the Post Office)

 

[Sand]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

There really good articles out there about HSAs, tax loss harvesting, and tax gain harvesting out there that also save money. These things can essentially save enough money for another year or two of salary. The $/time invested is off the charts.

 

[Slapdash]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

Can't get enough of this type of stuff.

 

[Sand]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

Can't get enough of this type of stuff.

I've just put you down on the "you owe me a beer" list.

 

[Slapdash]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

Can't get enough of this type of stuff.

I've just put you down on the "you owe me a beer" list.

hit me up if you're even in Charlotte

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

There really good articles out there about HSAs, tax loss harvesting, and tax gain harvesting out there that also save money. These things can essentially save enough money for another year or two of salary. The $/time invested is off the charts.

I just signed up for the Personal Capital website - wow. Took about 10 minutes to link my accounts - this thing is crazy good. Mix of both investment and budgeting - Goes all the way down to mixing VISA and checking account amounts and measuring against cash flow.

Free. Will likely get a call from their investment guys (they make their money managing accounts) but you don't have to use them ...which I won't.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

Can't get enough of this type of stuff.

I've just put you down on the "you owe me a beer" list.

I'm not too far away in Arkansas - let me know if you ever get over this way.

 

[FUBAR]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

There really good articles out there about HSAs, tax loss harvesting, and tax gain harvesting out there that also save money. These things can essentially save enough money for another year or two of salary. The $/time invested is off the charts.

I just signed up for the Personal Capital website - wow. Took about 10 minutes to link my accounts - this thing is crazy good. Mix of both investment and budgeting - Goes all the way down to mixing VISA and checking account amounts and measuring against cash flow.

Free. Will likely get a call from their investment guys (they make their money managing accounts) but you don't have to use them ...which I won't.

Let us know how you like it.

it's easy to see the value, I'm just reluctant to add my info to a new site.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Other than property taxes (5k propertyy taxes = :X ), you shouldn't be paying any federal taxes at all. In fact, it's quite easy to structure withdrawals to get up to 90k or so and not pay a dime. I think I've posted this before, but read this. There are also good articles out there about this on Bogleheads and Kitces.

Without kids I think the wife and I could have a baller lifestyle with 90k or so.

Sand - missed the link before - between that link and another link on that website - some really good stuff! Thanks!

There really good articles out there about HSAs, tax loss harvesting, and tax gain harvesting out there that also save money. These things can essentially save enough money for another year or two of salary. The $/time invested is off the charts.

I just signed up for the Personal Capital website - wow. Took about 10 minutes to link my accounts - this thing is crazy good. Mix of both investment and budgeting - Goes all the way down to mixing VISA and checking account amounts and measuring against cash flow.

Free. Will likely get a call from their investment guys (they make their money managing accounts) but you don't have to use them ...which I won't.

Let us know how you like it.

it's easy to see the value, I'm just reluctant to add my info to a new site.

I have never linked my accounts to anything before ...it looked so good that I just had to try it. It is already overwhelming how cool it is. The size and pedigree finally made me decide to go ahead and do it.

From website:

More than 700,000 users are now using Personal Capital, and the company is now tracking more than $125 billion in assets on the online platform. Personal Capital is a Registered Investment Adviser (RIA) with the SEC, and manages more than $1 Billion dollars in assets under management.

Bill Harris is the founder of Personal Capital. Harris is the former CEO of Intuit and PayPal. Bill and company raised $28 million in venture capital for Personal Capital at launch. Most employees have a background in finance and many hold the CFP® (Certified Financial Planner) designation.

 

[elbowrm]

Yeah I use the personal capital app - great to see the daily spending; good way to keep track of accounts. I haven't had a call with one of their advisors, one of whom pings me every couple of months.

 

[Dentist]

Personal capital vs mint? Anyone tried both?

 

[Johnnymac]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Let's say pre with another 20k or so coming from SS.

What percentage of your income do you guys estimate you'll need in retirement?

I mean on one hand I won't need to save for retirement, no mortgage, no college to save for.

On the other hand idle hands spend money, I fully plan to take nice trips in the first few years when I can still move well, and I may have more health expenditures.

What do you estimate?

That's the easy stuff to figure out. Where it gets really challenging is when you get into the age where you need other people (kids, nurses, home?) to take care of you. I see what my parents go through taking care of their parents b/c (my grandparents) just didn't have enough saved up.

I don't want to burden my kids whatsoever....so I'm factoring all of this in

As someone once pointed out in this thread, in home care is maybe 1k per month. And surprisingly beyond that at least to me, the average length of stay in a nursing home is less than 3 years with most being under 5. I budget 10 years of in home care and 5 years of nursing home to be safe.

I just can't fathom paying for something that I would never want. I would jump off a bridge before living in a nursing home.

 

[NutterButter]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Let's say pre with another 20k or so coming from SS.

What percentage of your income do you guys estimate you'll need in retirement?

I mean on one hand I won't need to save for retirement, no mortgage, no college to save for.

On the other hand idle hands spend money, I fully plan to take nice trips in the first few years when I can still move well, and I may have more health expenditures.

What do you estimate?

That's the easy stuff to figure out. Where it gets really challenging is when you get into the age where you need other people (kids, nurses, home?) to take care of you. I see what my parents go through taking care of their parents b/c (my grandparents) just didn't have enough saved up.

I don't want to burden my kids whatsoever....so I'm factoring all of this in

As someone once pointed out in this thread, in home care is maybe 1k per month. And surprisingly beyond that at least to me, the average length of stay in a nursing home is less than 3 years with most being under 5. I budget 10 years of in home care and 5 years of nursing home to be safe.

I just can't fathom paying for something that I would never want. I would jump off a bridge before living in a nursing home.

You probably won't have a choice. I know my mom won't when her time comes. There's no way I'm taking care of her and I sure as hell don't want my kids taking care of me.

 

[NutterButter]

So using turbotax's calculator, if my sole source of income is 60k that I pull from my 401k, I'm only looking at 6400 in federal. Looking at NJ's tax brackes, I'd be on the hook for another $1800 there. Is that all I'm looking at in taxes? That's only a 14% real tax rate which is a lot less than I was anticipating for some reason. I'm still definitely going to read up on some of the methods you guys mentioned on avoiding paying taxes.

 

[Rirruto]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Let's say pre with another 20k or so coming from SS.

What percentage of your income do you guys estimate you'll need in retirement?

I mean on one hand I won't need to save for retirement, no mortgage, no college to save for.

On the other hand idle hands spend money, I fully plan to take nice trips in the first few years when I can still move well, and I may have more health expenditures.

What do you estimate?

That's the easy stuff to figure out. Where it gets really challenging is when you get into the age where you need other people (kids, nurses, home?) to take care of you. I see what my parents go through taking care of their parents b/c (my grandparents) just didn't have enough saved up.

I don't want to burden my kids whatsoever....so I'm factoring all of this in

As someone once pointed out in this thread, in home care is maybe 1k per month. And surprisingly beyond that at least to me, the average length of stay in a nursing home is less than 3 years with most being under 5. I budget 10 years of in home care and 5 years of nursing home to be safe.

I just can't fathom paying for something that I would never want. I would jump off a bridge before living in a nursing home.

You probably won't have a choice. I know my mom won't when her time comes. There's no way I'm taking care of her and I sure as hell don't want my kids taking care of me.

I think that's part of the point. There's always a choice. I don't think it's irrational at all to choose cashing in your chips if the other choice is living in a nursing home. I think some of the younger guys here will have the blessing of the government when it comes time to make that choice, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[kutta]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Let's say pre with another 20k or so coming from SS.

What percentage of your income do you guys estimate you'll need in retirement?

I mean on one hand I won't need to save for retirement, no mortgage, no college to save for.

On the other hand idle hands spend money, I fully plan to take nice trips in the first few years when I can still move well, and I may have more health expenditures.

What do you estimate?

That's the easy stuff to figure out. Where it gets really challenging is when you get into the age where you need other people (kids, nurses, home?) to take care of you. I see what my parents go through taking care of their parents b/c (my grandparents) just didn't have enough saved up.

I don't want to burden my kids whatsoever....so I'm factoring all of this in

As someone once pointed out in this thread, in home care is maybe 1k per month. And surprisingly beyond that at least to me, the average length of stay in a nursing home is less than 3 years with most being under 5. I budget 10 years of in home care and 5 years of nursing home to be safe.

I just can't fathom paying for something that I would never want. I would jump off a bridge before living in a nursing home.

You probably won't have a choice. I know my mom won't when her time comes. There's no way I'm taking care of her and I sure as hell don't want my kids taking care of me.

I think that's part of the point. There's always a choice. I don't think it's irrational at all to choose cashing in your chips if the other choice is living in a nursing home. I think some of the younger guys here will have the blessing of the government when it comes time to make that choice, but that's neither here nor there.

There's an awesome old folks home right on the beach in La Jolla. My wife and I have our eyes on that place. Heck, I might go for it when I turn 55 - it looks great.

 

[NutterButter]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Let's say pre with another 20k or so coming from SS.

What percentage of your income do you guys estimate you'll need in retirement?

I mean on one hand I won't need to save for retirement, no mortgage, no college to save for.

On the other hand idle hands spend money, I fully plan to take nice trips in the first few years when I can still move well, and I may have more health expenditures.

What do you estimate?

That's the easy stuff to figure out. Where it gets really challenging is when you get into the age where you need other people (kids, nurses, home?) to take care of you. I see what my parents go through taking care of their parents b/c (my grandparents) just didn't have enough saved up.

I don't want to burden my kids whatsoever....so I'm factoring all of this in

As someone once pointed out in this thread, in home care is maybe 1k per month. And surprisingly beyond that at least to me, the average length of stay in a nursing home is less than 3 years with most being under 5. I budget 10 years of in home care and 5 years of nursing home to be safe.

I just can't fathom paying for something that I would never want. I would jump off a bridge before living in a nursing home.

You probably won't have a choice. I know my mom won't when her time comes. There's no way I'm taking care of her and I sure as hell don't want my kids taking care of me.

I think that's part of the point. There's always a choice. I don't think it's irrational at all to choose cashing in your chips if the other choice is living in a nursing home. I think some of the younger guys here will have the blessing of the government when it comes time to make that choice, but that's neither here nor there.

A lot easier to think you'll make that call when you're 40 years out. A lot of simple ways to kill yourself now and I don't read about a lot of seniors going that route.

 

[FUBAR]

Is this 40-K pre or post tax. Should be split 50/50 between traditional and Roth.

Let's say pre with another 20k or so coming from SS.

What percentage of your income do you guys estimate you'll need in retirement?

I mean on one hand I won't need to save for retirement, no mortgage, no college to save for.

On the other hand idle hands spend money, I fully plan to take nice trips in the first few years when I can still move well, and I may have more health expenditures.

What do you estimate?

That's the easy stuff to figure out. Where it gets really challenging is when you get into the age where you need other people (kids, nurses, home?) to take care of you. I see what my parents go through taking care of their parents b/c (my grandparents) just didn't have enough saved up.

I don't want to burden my kids whatsoever....so I'm factoring all of this in

As someone once pointed out in this thread, in home care is maybe 1k per month. And surprisingly beyond that at least to me, the average length of stay in a nursing home is less than 3 years with most being under 5. I budget 10 years of in home care and 5 years of nursing home to be safe.

I just can't fathom paying for something that I would never want. I would jump off a bridge before living in a nursing home.

You probably won't have a choice. I know my mom won't when her time comes. There's no way I'm taking care of her and I sure as hell don't want my kids taking care of me.

I think that's part of the point. There's always a choice. I don't think it's irrational at all to choose cashing in your chips if the other choice is living in a nursing home. I think some of the younger guys here will have the blessing of the government when it comes time to make that choice, but that's neither here nor there.

There's an awesome old folks home right on the beach in La Jolla. My wife and I have our eyes on that place. Heck, I might go for it when I turn 55 - it looks great.

Yep.

Not all nursing / old folks homes are prisons.

 

[The Ref]

$11.3K a year property tax in Il? High tax rates in NJ?

You people need to consider a move when you hit retirement.

 

[NutterButter]

$11.3K a year property tax in Il? High tax rates in NJ?

You people need to consider a move when you hit retirement.

We have the 2nd lowest gas tax in NJ. So we got that going for us. I might be stuck here if this is where the grandkids reside. If weed isn't legal, all bets are off.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Re: parents teaching their kids about retirement.

My dad started having me put away $25 a month into a retirement fund when I was 16. He'd just say we'll look at it in 5 years and you'll see how much you've made... 5 years later I had lost about 50% of that money. Made me think retirement savings was a bunch of bull#### and turned me off it in mid-20s.

What's it worth right now? Judging from your avatar, you should be nearing retirement. (and with a good pension from the Post Office)

$0. Transferred it into my work pension which is pretty awesome.

 

[pecorino]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

 

[FUBAR]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

Entitlement nation. Uncle sugar will bail them out as we, collectively, go deeper in debt.

It's not just retirement, it's nursing homes for the elderly who can't work and can't afford to pay for their own care.

my fear for this nation isn't war. it's that fewer people seem to be willing to take care of themselves, work for the things they want and sacrifice for their own future. We'll continue to spread the divide between the wealthy and poor - partly because too many people expect handouts and life to be easy.

Sorry about the rant, what was the question?

 

[NutterButter]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

 

[Juxtatarot]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

Yes, it won't be too costly living in their kids' basements.

 

[NutterButter]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

Yes, it won't be too costly living in their kids' basements.

I'd be curious to see what most people's full retirement situation looks like; 401k, pension, social security and house. If you own your own house, then the avg ss payout of 1180/month isnt terrible and that's without any other savings and no spousal ss benefit.

 

[Juxtatarot]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

Yes, it won't be too costly living in their kids' basements.

I'd be curious to see what most people's full retirement situation looks like; 401k, pension, social security and house. If you own your own house, then the avg ss payout of 1180/month isnt terrible and that's without any other savings and no spousal ss benefit.

Of the people with virtually no retirement savings, few will have a home without a mortgage. The temptation to refinance is usually too great for those who don't have the discipline or ability to save.

 

[NutterButter]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

Yes, it won't be too costly living in their kids' basements.

I'd be curious to see what most people's full retirement situation looks like; 401k, pension, social security and house. If you own your own house, then the avg ss payout of 1180/month isnt terrible and that's without any other savings and no spousal ss benefit.

Of the people with virtually no retirement savings, few will have a home without a mortgage. The temptation to refinance is usually too great for those who don't have the discipline or ability to save.

According to the 2010 census, 79% of those 60 or older own their own home. Seems like a pretty solid number.I know my mom doesnt, but between ss, pension and some retirement, she's in really good shape.

 

[Juxtatarot]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

Yes, it won't be too costly living in their kids' basements.

I'd be curious to see what most people's full retirement situation looks like; 401k, pension, social security and house. If you own your own house, then the avg ss payout of 1180/month isnt terrible and that's without any other savings and no spousal ss benefit.

Of the people with virtually no retirement savings, few will have a home without a mortgage. The temptation to refinance is usually too great for those who don't have the discipline or ability to save.

According to the 2010 census, 79% of those 60 or older own their own home. Seems like a pretty solid number.

Home ownership in census data doesn't mean owning free and clear.

 

[NutterButter]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

social security. It won't be pretty but it will be enough to live on.

Yes, it won't be too costly living in their kids' basements.

I'd be curious to see what most people's full retirement situation looks like; 401k, pension, social security and house. If you own your own house, then the avg ss payout of 1180/month isnt terrible and that's without any other savings and no spousal ss benefit.

Of the people with virtually no retirement savings, few will have a home without a mortgage. The temptation to refinance is usually too great for those who don't have the discipline or ability to save.

According to the 2010 census, 79% of those 60 or older own their own home. Seems like a pretty solid number.

Home ownership in census data doesn't mean owning free and clear.

Oh. Basement it is. sucks to be them.

 

[pecorino]

So given the incredible retirement statistics floating around the net (almost half of Americans have $0 saved for retirement and the median amount for the whole country is on the order of $3000), how does this actually play out? Are these folks assuming the government is going to bail them out? I don't think so. I suspect they believe they'll just work until they die. But we all know that's got to be the exception not the rule. More likely, their bodies won't let them work until they die. And then what?

The future of the US may be threatened by war, flagging public schools and the breakdown of family systems. But where does this impending retirement crisis rank?

Entitlement nation. Uncle sugar will bail them out as we, collectively, go deeper in debt.

It's not just retirement, it's nursing homes for the elderly who can't work and can't afford to pay for their own care.

my fear for this nation isn't war. it's that fewer people seem to be willing to take care of themselves, work for the things they want and sacrifice for their own future. We'll continue to spread the divide between the wealthy and poor - partly because too many people expect handouts and life to be easy.

Sorry about the rant, what was the question?

I'm totally with you FUBAR. As I mentioned, we are producing young citizens who are not getting what they need from the educational system and are accustomed to being handed everything. The word I keep coming back to is "Discipline". Seems a dirty word nowadays, almost, and the lack of retirement savings is just one manifestation of a lack of discipline. I sound like my old man, too, I know, but that's my rant. The question was, How is this all going to play out? Government bailout is as good an answer as any, as is the living in the basement thing.

 

[Tiger Fan]

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/05/27/americans-feeling-better-about-household-finances-fed-survey/

Americans are feeling better about their household finances but many remain on shaky ground when it comes to saving for emergency expenses and retirement, according to a Federal Reserve survey.

A total of 65% of respondents in the Fed’s 2014 Survey of Household Economics and Decisionmaking said they were “living comfortably” or “doing okay,” up from 62% in the 2013 survey, the central bank said Wednesday. Some 29% in 2014 said they expected their income to be higher in the next year, up from 21% a year earlier.

Some 29% in last year’s survey said they were better off financially than they were a year earlier, compared with 21% who said they were worse off. A total of 40% said they were better off than they were five years ago, versus 28% who said they were worse off compared with 2009.

But for many Americans, household finances remain fragile: 47% said they wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency expense or would have to borrow money or sell something, and 31% said they went without some form of medical care in the last year because they couldn’t afford it.

One in five said their spending exceeded their income over the last year, just 63% said they saved any money at all over the past 12 months and 31% of nonretirees said they had no retirement savings or pension.

“The survey results reveal a lack of economic preparedness among many adults,” the Fed said in a news release.

More than 5,800 people took the survey last fall, the Fed said.

 

[mquinnjr]

Yeah at a certain point, it just comes down to discipline after you've gained awareness. Not shockingly, a higher than I'm comfortable reading percentage of Americans lack that discipline and/or awareness of the need to save for emergencies and retirement. Just have to keep beating the drum to drill it into people's heads that saving is a good idea, can't make them.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I feel like I live in a different world when I read these articles that you guys post.

Beyond mind boggling is a statement like this

"47% said they wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency expense"

 

[Bull Dozier]

I feel like I live in a different world when I read these articles that you guys post.

Beyond mind boggling is a statement like this

"47% said they wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency expense"

More recently than I would like to remember I would have counted myself in this group. It certainly is not a fun way to live.

 

[Dentist]

I feel like I live in a different world when I read these articles that you guys post.

Beyond mind boggling is a statement like this

"47% said they wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency expense"

You do live in a different world... so do I.

I see these 47% all the time in my office though. It is sometimes very difficult for me to listen with compassion when someone tells me they don't have their $100 copay while they nearly always have a nicer phone than I do and many times a newer vehicle, and of course smoke and often have multiple tats.

Now there is definitely real poverty out there that is very worthy of being incredibly sympathetic of... and I have the highest sympathy for them.

But there is another segment of poverty out there through mostly consistent horrible financial choices and over-consumption, and I have very little sympathy for that group. I even have a few friends that have been or currently are in that group... and it's mostly from stupid choices.

But you see almost no one that needs to read that article actually reads it. It's people like those reading this thread that read that article and mentally shame those that are that stupid to be in that predicament.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I feel like I live in a different world when I read these articles that you guys post.

Beyond mind boggling is a statement like this

"47% said they wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency expense"

More recently than I would like to remember I would have counted myself in this group. It certainly is not a fun way to live.

Can you share a thumb nail sketch of how you got to that point?

Was it a long time with out work or was it poor spending habits that got you behind the 8 ball, or something else?

 

[Bull Dozier]

I feel like I live in a different world when I read these articles that you guys post.

Beyond mind boggling is a statement like this

"47% said they wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency expense"

More recently than I would like to remember I would have counted myself in this group. It certainly is not a fun way to live.

Can you share a thumb nail sketch of how you got to that point?

Was it a long time with out work or was it poor spending habits that got you behind the 8 ball, or something else?

Shortest version is that I was everything Dentist rails about. Over consumption and poor use of credit.

Longer version has a few more details. I was irresponsible right out of college with my first job. Bought a car that was too expensive, ran up the credit cards. I actually got myself back on track after a couple of years, then I got married. My wife was in poor shape, but we didn't talk about money. She dug an even bigger hole with credit cards. Then we bought a house at a horrible time. Thought it would be a fixer upper we could improve, and get some equity out of. It fell apart faster than we knew how to fix it. Then the market tanked and we couldn't get rid of it.

With a little luck (bought a new house at a great price in a better neighborhood and found a renter for the old house), some patience in paying down bills, and some hard work to improve the income, we are no longer living paycheck to paycheck. We're not to where we need to be. We don't have 6 months in liquid reserves (but we do have 2-3). We're not out of debt (but we haven't used a credit card in over a year. Baby steps). We don't have our retirements maxed out (but I do the 401k up to the company max, and contribute a little more to a Roth). Our house will be paid off by the time I am 65, hopefully far sooner if we can move the old house soon.

It's still a constant battle with the wife about spending money. On my own I can keep things in check with the occasional purchase, but my wife has zero self control. it's a constant struggle be it her wanting a vacation, or to crank up the furnace or AC, or to get the kids clothes at Gap instead of Target. But, it gets a little better as time goes by.

 

[Gamma1210]

Just a quick thanks to all on this board that have offered me advice throughout the years. I've made drastic changes in my planning for retirement, as in actually doing something about it. Currently contributing the max my company matches into my 401k (they match 4% if I do 5%) as well as maxing out my company's match on my HSA. I plan on maxing a ROTH IRA once I get some of my debts paid down (still owe some on my van, and obviously still owe on my house)

It's weird really. My parents never discussed it with me, no class in high school really talked about it. To the point that I never really even thought about retirement savings or planning on what would happen 40+ years from now, or hell, even basic financial management. I got a later start then I would have liked on retirement savings, but I'm feeling relatively comfortable with my current plan, and should be around the ~ million range when I do retire (according to Principal's retirement planner). Although apparently that's not enough any more.

It truly is just mind boggling how little importance we put on education with respect to retirement and just all around financial management. But I've gotten great advice in this thread plus a few others discussing overall financial management and future planning.

Thanks.

I have been thinking about these points ever since becoming a teacher 22 years ago. Teaching high school math at a private school, I have quite a bit of autonomy so I try to insert what I can about personal finance when possible, like when the topic turns to compound interest and exponential growth. But with the heavy importance placed on SAT performance and with students being pulled in many directions, finance gets short shrift when pitted up against math, English, athletics, arts, etc.

Now that I am in a position where I can actually shape a high school curriculum (kind of like a vice principal focusing on the academic program) I am still torn about how to get personal finance into the curriculum. Our parents want it--many of our clientele are wealthy and some made their bones in the business world. I'd love to have a full blown course in personal finance (credit cards, checking accounts, mortgages, inflation, saving for retirement, stocks, bonds, insurance, etc.) but at what cost? Something else would have to come out of the curriculum. We just don't have the time.

I think this is a national issue and wonder if Americans are ready to cut something from our typical high school curriculum in order to add a course like this. Is it more important to study a foreign language or personal finance? How about art or computers or math or history or science or English?And who teaches a class on personal finance--teachers don't have the training. I think it is a fascinating and important topic. For now, the best we can do is to have ancillary programs like clubs or outside speakers to try to get at some of these important ideas. If the FBGs can crack this nut, I'm all ears.

Personal finance is now required in NJ high schools.