Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
PBS Frontline : The Retirement Gamble, sorta Must See (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Smack Tripper
- Start date
Johnnymac
Footballguy
I guess I see it differently than most guys here. This # doesn't shock me at all. There are so may people living paycheck to paycheck in this country. That doesn't even take into account the people who have no income at all. The wealth in this country has been flowing to the top for the last 30 years at least. I'm actually surprised that 47% isn't higher.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
it would seem that way, but based on the experiences i've had with people like that, they don't see it as a problem, and they aren't even looking to correct it (admittedly many struggle to correct it due to health issues or things beyond their control - those aren't the people I'm talking about).
I have a couple friends that are in this 47%. Even if I wrote them a check to get them out of their current problems, they'd just blow it doing something else stupid.
Read the comments on a yahoo finance article sometime... i know it's full of trolls but it's also telling.
You see an article about creating an emergency fund or saving for retirement and people will say things like:
"save for retirement? what so wall street can steal it?"
"Retirement? whatever man I don't care about my 70 y.o. self, YOLO!"
People could even be exposed to conventional wisdom and practical good ideas and they'll still shun it.
I don't know what type of mental block it is, or where it comes from.. but that mental block is far stronger than any advice any professional or book will ever give them.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
I think a ton of those people don't even have credit, or don't have that available in what credit they do have.. at least that's the experience i've had with the 47%
mquinnjr
Footballguy
I'd say FFA Pay Day Loans, Inc. but that's not really helping anybody out in the long term. We can make money off of it though.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
The bankruptcy attorney in the suite over is doing fairly well also.
The only ways you get money off people that don't have money are probably going to be exploitative in some way
Maybe I'm just talking out of my butt....but I was thinking higher level - are there publicly traded companies that stand to gain from this sort of thing? I guess Wal-Mart jumps out, but there are so many more factors to a company like that. Something that isn't so obvious?
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Phillip Morris? Weed stocks?Maybe I'm just talking out of my butt....but I was thinking higher level - are there publicly traded companies that stand to gain from this sort of thing? I guess Wal-Mart jumps out, but there are so many more factors to a company like that. Something that isn't so obvious?
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
If you believe in the consistent and progressive move of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer then here's some ideas:Maybe I'm just talking out of my butt....but I was thinking higher level - are there publicly traded companies that stand to gain from this sort of thing? I guess Wal-Mart jumps out, but there are so many more factors to a company like that. Something that isn't so obvious?
Dollar Stores
Alcohol/casino/cigarettes - the poor have such few outlets for entertainment that they usually turn to things they can afford like cheap whiskey and cigs... or get rich quick kinds of things like casinos... too bad you can't invest in lotteries.
I'm not sure if there are any public payday loan companies.
Is something like Aldi public for groceries?
Who's the leader in debit cards? Visa? because the 47% don't use Credit Cards much.
What company makes tatoo ink? Are they public? Because the poor get tats regardless of income.
Discount cellular providers? Cricket? who owns them? As an aside most poor people should be using something cheap like Republic Wireless or Ting, but they often aren't tech savvy enough to use something like that or even be aware of it.
I'd say makers of generic products would be winners.. but man when i see those 47%ers checking out at the grocery store, i often see an alarmingly amount of name brand product so I'm not so sure.
I'd also think cheap clothing like Old Navy but I also don't see those people in there either.. they generally wear things that are beyond their income level.
Sand
Footballguy
Most people have probably had this at some point in their lives. When I first got married I was getting a 12k/yr stipend to go to grad school. A $500 car bill would have been a tough thing - I remember we always seemed to run a $20 monthly deficit on the bills.rick6668 said:NewlyRetired said:
Unfathomable to me. Tough way to live.
I guess I should have been terrified at the thin ice I was on - but, yeah, I was a newlywed. Those times were awesome.
Random
Footballguy
At nearly every single rental property I have, can anyone guess what publicly traded company truck is out front usually the day of the lease signing?Maybe I'm just talking out of my butt....but I was thinking higher level - are there publicly traded companies that stand to gain from this sort of thing? I guess Wal-Mart jumps out, but there are so many more factors to a company like that. Something that isn't so obvious?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
U-haulAt nearly every single rental property I have, can anyone guess what publicly traded company truck is out front usually the day of the lease signing?Maybe I'm just talking out of my butt....but I was thinking higher level - are there publicly traded companies that stand to gain from this sort of thing? I guess Wal-Mart jumps out, but there are so many more factors to a company like that. Something that isn't so obvious?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Random
Footballguy
No. Its a store in nearly every state that I doubt any non 47%ers have ever been into.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Rent-A-Center / Aaron's?
Random
Footballguy
Yes. Not sure if this would translate into a good stock play, but its definitely a very popular store here. In my case its Aarons.
Funny thing is, I rarely see a Uhaul type truck.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
You're right, i've never walked into an Aaron's or rent-a-center, but i could definitely see where that's a reasonable choice over buying furniture when you're going to be somewhere maybe 12-36 months and don't want to pick furniture you have to move which may not match your different rental spot or home.
Gawain
Footballguy
Sarcasm, right?
Those places make payday loan interest rates look like T-Bills.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/shopping/rentacenter/overview/index.htm
Random
Footballguy
I'm not sure thats the reasoning behind renting furniture and/or appliances for these people. They usually barely have rent and deposit to move (I'm usually asked to "work with them" on the deposit - meaning they pay half now and half in a week or month). I think its more the lure of getting the $1000+ worth of stuff now and not making a payment for a month or so. And only paying $100/mo or so for the stuff.
But again, I have no idea how this translates into a stock play. Any stockguys care to chime in?
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Rent A Center Graph - https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rent%20a%20center%20stock
Aaron's Graph - https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=aarons%20stock
Slow, steady climbs over the long term.
Aaron's Graph - https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=aarons%20stock
Slow, steady climbs over the long term.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Had no idea.
You're right, i'm completely wrong.. that's a horrible idea.
You'd be FAR better off with Garage sales and/or craigslist for used stuff.
good post
rick6668
Footballguy
Random
Footballguy
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Spin
Footballguy
When my wife and I first got together, she had a Sony 50in 1080p HDTV she had from Rent A Center. She paid them $80 every two weeks. She had already paid a little over $1,500 on this damn TV, and owed another $1,500 if she kept making the minimum payments. At the time, you could buy that exact same TV for $1250 brand new, granted the price had dropped a bit from when she got her TV, but I think she said the price of the TV at the time was about $2,000. So she was going to pay them almost $1,000 more then the TV was worth.
I somehow convinced her to let them take the TV back. She even had furniture from them as well, but we just paid the rest of what she owed off, as she owed less on the furniture then it would have cost to get a new set (it was less then $300 I think). She cried as the RAC people came to take back "her" TV. We then went to Best Buy and bought a 46inch Dynex TV for like $300 on clearance.
Those Rent A Center / Aaron places are awful. It's generational thing though. Her parents get all their furniture, their tables, their TVS etc through Aarons. They like the idea of "only" having to pay $40-80 every other week to have brand new stuff. Even though I tried explaining they end up paying close to 2x what this stuff costs if they just bought it outright. Seriously, her parents are talking about what new TV they're going to get when they finish paying off their current one.
I somehow convinced her to let them take the TV back. She even had furniture from them as well, but we just paid the rest of what she owed off, as she owed less on the furniture then it would have cost to get a new set (it was less then $300 I think). She cried as the RAC people came to take back "her" TV. We then went to Best Buy and bought a 46inch Dynex TV for like $300 on clearance.
Those Rent A Center / Aaron places are awful. It's generational thing though. Her parents get all their furniture, their tables, their TVS etc through Aarons. They like the idea of "only" having to pay $40-80 every other week to have brand new stuff. Even though I tried explaining they end up paying close to 2x what this stuff costs if they just bought it outright. Seriously, her parents are talking about what new TV they're going to get when they finish paying off their current one.
Zasada
Footballguy
I just watched this and have decided to move most of my 401k into an index fund. While the funds I currently invest in aren't horrible on expense ratio (~0.75%), they have largely underperformed the S&P 500 over the last five/ten years. I thought by investing in high-beta funds I could over-perform the market in the long run, since my risk horizon is pretty distant.
Going back to the first Finance course I took in 1996, my prof put a slide on the screen on the first day and basically said "this is the historical return of the TSE (Canada) over the last 100 years. Don't try to beat it. You can't. Just invest in it and be happy with your long-run return, which will be higher than interest and inflation".
Should have listened to him. While my 401k is reasonably diversified, I'm paying extra fees to under-perform the market. Enough of that.
Going back to the first Finance course I took in 1996, my prof put a slide on the screen on the first day and basically said "this is the historical return of the TSE (Canada) over the last 100 years. Don't try to beat it. You can't. Just invest in it and be happy with your long-run return, which will be higher than interest and inflation".
Should have listened to him. While my 401k is reasonably diversified, I'm paying extra fees to under-perform the market. Enough of that.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
Is it that these people are just that bad at math? Is it that they are stupid and no amount of logic prevails? I really don't understand the mindset.Spin said:
John Oliver should do a thing on these types of places... but the people who watch his show are probably the type of people who wouldn't go there anyway.
I guess it's further proof that with regard to the lower class, they are happy to be continuously sheered by scam after scam, but to pony up $500-2000 for something outright is a pipe dream. And I guess when the idea of actually waiting for something and saving for it, then buying it is unreasonable... well what can you do.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
I think the driving force here is that people that use this type of service (or credit cards irresponsibly, which turns out to be the same cost, or more), are simply unable to accept their current financial situation and want "new" stuff, no matter the cost. They don't know patience. They probably look at the added cost as soemthing smaller than it is, and it is something worth it to pay to get something newer now, instead of saving money and getting something newer, later, for cheaper.
I don't think it is they don't understand the math, they downplay the effect, which is to keep them stuck in this cycle perpetually.
Gawain
Footballguy
It's also easier to justify. Say you buy a 65" TV for 25 bucks a week for two years. It's easy to say, well I'll brown bag my lunch twice a week and getting this tv is revenue neutral to my life. So, you pay $2600 for a tv you could buy for 899. But, if you have 900 bucks, there's no justification for not paying down a credit card. There's no way to fool yourself that paying that kind of money when you don't have it is smart.
That being said, it'd be better to pay $900 off of a 20% APR credit card and put the tv on that, than to go to an Aarons.
Random
Footballguy
Its a completely different way of life than I ever knew before owning rental properties. When they move out, they just leave. They take what they want and leave behind clothing, dishes, vacuum sweepers, furniture, toys, bedding, etc. Go to a new place, rent from Aarons, get behind on payments, Aarons repos their crap, they get kicked out, live with parents/friends/shelters wait a few months to get enough SS income go rent another place.
Spin
Footballguy
This is a lot of it. They also seem completely in capable of saving money. There is pretty much no way they'd ever get to having the $2,000 in the bank, it'd be long gone before then. It's fairly common attitude in the city they live in, small town, where if you make 30k a year, you're pretty much rich, and most people live pay check to pay check. There's also a Rent a Center, an Aaron's, about 15 of those signature loan type places everywhere.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
The stock has been climbing over time purely because of the fact that customers don't see this, or don't want to see this. Look at their ads, "...get that Big Screen for the Big Game for just $15/week!!!!" Aaron's is playing to the populace, and fleecing them blind. Their business model is going nowhere.
FUBAR
Footballguy
the same applies to cars, yet many more people lease or make payments on new cars. Understood that it's a matter of scale and usually the APR on a vehicle is a lot less, but it's similar logic.
Had a conversation with a friend of ours, she and her husband are very intelligent people; yet he went into a dealership a few months back without telling her, traded in their fully capable mini-van which they had for 4 years (presumably were close to paying it off) for a new one. She was upset at first but when he told her they would make the same payments, she was fine with it. She didn't bother to ask how much longer they'd be making payments.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
So you've got to be victim to several defaults, late payments, etc. I would think amongst the crappy way people take care of your property would drive you batty... it's one of many reasons I wouldn't do it.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
The way people handle vehicles is one of the hugest setbacks to their entire financial lives. Vehicles are INCREDIBLY expensive when you factor in what they cost, what it costs to fuel them, insure them, maintain them, and pay taxation on them. My car is one of the only bills that keeps getting less expensive every year I own mine.. yet people seem to be in the biggest hurry ever to get the newest latest. It's mind-boggling.the same applies to cars, yet many more people lease or make payments on new cars. Understood that it's a matter of scale and usually the APR on a vehicle is a lot less, but it's similar logic.
Had a conversation with a friend of ours, she and her husband are very intelligent people; yet he went into a dealership a few months back without telling her, traded in their fully capable mini-van which they had for 4 years (presumably were close to paying it off) for a new one. She was upset at first but when he told her they would make the same payments, she was fine with it. She didn't bother to ask how much longer they'd be making payments.
I guess at the end of the day it's an issue of mindset. One person would look at 30K and say to themselves.. sweet, let's get a new car STAT. I look at it as a tool to generate more money.
Random
Footballguy
It happens. But you also get the ones that stay 3,4,5 years. Basically paying for the property.
But yes, over the years we have had our share of deadbeats. Move in, pay for a few months, trash the place, move out.
Spin
Footballguy
Dentist - These are also the same people I talked about here.
It's a cultural and generational thing, and maybe I just suck at explaining things to them, but there is nothing I can do to get through to them. They're content, after watching their parents, their neighbors, etc live the same way. It's like the oblivious to other options, like saving, and buying a better tv 4 months from now for 1/3rd the cost they're spending over the next year.
It's a cultural and generational thing, and maybe I just suck at explaining things to them, but there is nothing I can do to get through to them. They're content, after watching their parents, their neighbors, etc live the same way. It's like the oblivious to other options, like saving, and buying a better tv 4 months from now for 1/3rd the cost they're spending over the next year.
lod01
Footballguy
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
it's a mental block, and definitely some classism, but my annoyance at the deadbeats would exceed any enjoyment I received out of the profits from the mostly reasonable people.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Whatever happened to 'no pay for X months'? That's how I furnished my first apartment. Got the couches/TV for a few thousand, set aside a bit each month so that when the bill came up I had it all. Only additional cost was a small fee ($50?). Still too tough for most people?
