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PDSL2 (1 Viewer)

Duckboy

Duckboy

IBL Representative
LINKS

Wraith5-

OldMilwaukee -

Bri-

Blue-Kun-

Duckboy -

Sigmund Bloom -

pigskin pimp-

renesauz -

restless natives -

Family Matters -

valence -

Getinthemix -

Hear the Footsteps -

wannabee -

Shadowfax -

Oldfatguy-

Player color codes / key:

Quarterback

Runningback

Wide Receiver

Tight End

Kicker

Defense

5.01. wraith5: Vince Young, TEN, QB9

5.02. Old Milwaukee: Chris Chambers, MIA, WR23

5.03. Bri: Julius Jones, DAL, RB30

5.04. Blue-Kun: Alge Crumpler, ATL, TE6

5.05. Duckboy: Chris Cooley, WAS, TE7

5.06. Sigmund Bloom: Matt Leinart, ARI, QB10

5.07. pigskin pimp: Donte Stallworth, NE, WR24

5.08. renesauz: Terry Glenn, DAL, WR25

5.09. restless natives: Calvin Johnson, ROOKIE, WR26

5.10. Family Matters: Randy Moss, OAK, WR27

5.11. valence: Deion Branch, SEA, WR28

5.12. Getinthemix: Vernon Davis, SF, TE8

5.13. Hear the Footsteps: Kevin Jones, DET, RB31

5.14. wannabee: Jason Witten, DAL, TE9

5.15. Shadowfax: Mike Furrey, DET, WR29

5.16. Oldfatguy: Mark Clayton, BAL, WR30

6.01. Oldfatguy: Jerricho Cotchery, NYJ, WR31

6.02. Shadowfax: Jon Kitna, DET, QB11

6.03. wannabee: Joey Galloway, TB, WR32

6.04. Hear the Footsteps: Vincent Jackson, SD, WR33

6.05. Getinthemix: Matt Jones, JAC, WR34

6.06. valence: Fred Taylor, JAC, RB32

6.07. Family Matters: LJ Smith, PHI, TE10

6.08. restless natives: Marshawn Lynch, ROOKIE, RB33

6.09. renesauz: Tony Romo, DAL, QB12

6.10. pigskin pimp: Lamont Jordan, OAK, RB34

6.11. Sigmund Bloom: Ladell Betts, WAS, RB35

6.12. Duckboy: Warrick Dunn, ATL, RB36

6.13. Blue-Kun: Isaac Bruce, STL, WR35

6.14. Bri: Kevin Curtis, PHI, WR36

6.15. Old Milwaukee: Bernard Berrian, CHI, WR37

6.16. wraith5: Ben Watson, NE, TE11

PREVIOUS ROUNDS

1.01. wraith5: LaDainian Tomlinson, SD, RB1

1.02. Old Milwaukee: Larry Johnson, KC, RB2

1.03. Bri: Stephen Jackson, SL, RB3

1.04. Blue-Kun: Brian Westbrook, PHI, RB4

1.05. Duckboy: Frank Gore, SF, RB5

1.06. Sigmund Bloom: Shaun Alexander, SEA, RB6

1.07. pigskin pimp: Reggie Bush, NO, RB7

1.08. renesauz: Joseph Addai, IND, RB8

1.09. restless natives: Willie Parker, PIT, RB9

1.10. Family Matters: Clinton Portis, WAS, RB10

1.11. valence: Rudi Johnson, CIN, RB11

1.12. Getinthemix: Ronnie Brown, MIA, RB12

1.13. Hear the Footsteps: Maurice Jones-Drew, JAC, RB13

1.14. wannabee: Steve Smith, CAR, WR1

1.15. Shadowfax: Antonio Gates, SD, TE1

1.16. Oldfatguy: Marion Barber, DAL, RB14

2.01. Oldfatguy: Laurence Maroney, NE, RB15

2.02. Shadowfax: Travis Henry,DEN, RB16

2.03. wannabee: Willis McGahee, BUF, RB17

2.04. Hear the Footsteps: Chad Johnson, CIN, WR2

2.05. Getinthemix: Peyton Manning, IND, QB1

2.06. valence: Larry Fitzgerald, ARI, WR3

2.07. Family Matters: Edgerrin James, ARI, RB18

2.08. restless natives: Torry Holt, SL, WR4

2.09. renesauz: Cedric Benson, CHI, RB19

2.10. pigskin pimp: Terrell Owens, DAL, WR5

2.11. Sigmund Bloom: Reggie Wayne, IND, WR6

2.12. Duckboy: Marvin Harrison, IND, WR7

2.13. Blue-Kun: Chester Taylor, MIN, RB20

2.14. Bri: Andre Johnson, HOU, WR8

2.15. Old Milwaukee: Thomas Jones, NYJ, RB21

2.16. wraith5: Donald Driver, GB, WR9

3.01. wraith5: Roy Williams, DET, WR10

3.02. Old Milwaukee: Lee Evans, BUF, WR11

3.03. Bri: Anquan Boldin, ARI, WR12

3.04. Blue-Kun: TJ Houshmandzadeh, CIN, WR13

3.05. Duckboy: Javon Walker, DEN, WR14

3.06. Sigmund Bloom: Marques Colston, NO, WR15

3.07. pigskin pimp: Carson Palmer, CIN, QB2

3.08. renesauz: Hines Ward, PIT, WR16

3.09. restless natives: Cadillac Williams, TB, RB22

3.10. Family Matters: Plaxico Burress, NYG, WR17

3.11. valence: Tony Gonzalez, KC, TE2

3.12. Getinthemix: Adrian Peterson, ROOKIE, RB23

3.13. Hear the Footsteps: Brandon Jacobs, NYG, RB24

3.14. wannabee: Deuce McAllister, NO, RB25

3.15. Shadowfax: Laveranues Coles, NYJ, WR18

3.16. Oldfatguy: Drew Brees, NO, QB3

4.01. Oldfatguy: Braylon Edwards, CLE, WR19

4.02. Shadowfax: Michael Turner, SD/?, RB26

4.03. wannabee: Santana Moss, WAS, WR20

4.04. Hear the Footsteps: Kellen Winslow, CLE, TE3

4.05. Getinthemix: Ahman Green, HOU, RB27

4.06. valence: Donovan McNabb, PHI, QB4

4.07. Family Matters: Marc Bulger, SL, QB5

4.08. restless natives: Todd Heap, BAL, TE4

4.09. renesauz: Reggie Brown, PHI, WR21

4.10. pigskin pimp: DeAngelo Williams, CAR, RB28

4.11. Sigmund Bloom: Jeremy Shockey, NYG, TE5

4.12. Duckboy: Darrell Jackson, SEA, WR22

4.13. Blue-Kun: Tom Brady, NE, QB56

4.14. Bri: Michael Vick, ATL, QB7

4.15. Old Milwaukee: Matt Hasselback, SEA, QB8

4.16. wraith5: Jamal Lewis, CLE, RB29

NEXT ROUNDS PREP AREA

7.01. wraith5:

7.02. Old Milwaukee:

7.03. Bri:

7.04. Blue-Kun:

7.05. Duckboy:

7.06. Sigmund Bloom:

7.07. pigskin pimp:

7.08. renesauz:

7.09. restless natives:

7.10. Family Matters:

7.11. valence:

7.12. Getinthemix:

7.13. Hear the Footsteps:

7.14. wannabee:

7.15. Shadowfax:

7.16. Oldfatguy:

8.01. Oldfatguy:

8.02. Shadowfax:

8.03. wannabee:

8.04. Hear the Footsteps:

8.05. Getinthemix:

8.06. valence:

8.07. Family Matters:

8.08. restless natives:

8.09. renesauz:

8.10. pigskin pimp:

8.11. Sigmund Bloom:

8.12. Duckboy:

8.13. Blue-Kun:

8.14. Bri:

8.15. Old Milwaukee:

8.16. wraith5:

 
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5.01 Vince Young, QB Tennessee Titans

I don't like this pick. It's too early. But, looking at what may be here for me in another 31 or so picks, I'm backed into a corner.

 
I'm going to be out for a couple hrs. Sent a 2 person list to wannabee for my next pick; will update when I get back.

 
I also have Pigskin's pick, so we can knock a few picks down this evening. If I am not around, please PM me after Bloom's pick.

 
Bri said:
HTF,

any thoughts on Winslow's knee and your pick?
Click to expand...
I am the wrong guy to ask questions to as I tend to give long answers.So I will attempt to keep this short...

Yes, he had arthroscopic surgery.

What do we know about that surgery, and more pointedly, what do we know about that surgery as it relates to Winslow?

- Operation was a success. Doctors believe he will make a "full" recovery.

- Usually takes 4 months to fully recover from. He had the surgery at the end of January. Add 4 months and that brings us to the end of May. Let's say for whatever reason he takes longer to come back - by an additional 2 months. Okay, so that would still only be end of July. Season starts in early September. So he could be practicing 6 weeks prior to the beginning of the season and that's IF he takes two months longer to recuperate than the doctors expect.

- Some never fully come back from this type of surgery. While that is the case, most of them tend to be older. Winslow is 23. Young with very little wear and tear on him.

Most love to point to guys like Terrell Davis - who never fully made it back. Okay, let's talk about him for a sec.

1) TD had injuries in 1998.

2) TD tore his anterior and medial collateral ligaments in 1999.

3) TD had some type of stress injury in his leg in 2000.

4) TD had arthroscopic surgery on BOTH knees in 2001.

5) He never fully made it back and retired in 2002.

6) He retired a few months before turning 30.

Winslow has not had a million injuries (hope I didn't just jinx him). In fact, during this most recent season he played all 16 games.

And he is a lot younger (only 23 years old).

And much in part due to his young age - he hasn't had nearly the kind of wear and tear as a RB who rushed for over 7500 yards and must have been tackled a bgillion times.

The next question should be - okay, so he has a good shot of returning in time for the season; plus he's young so that increases the chances that he comes back fully recovered. But why take the chance?

Well, the answer to this has a lot to do with my theory on these survivor leagues.

You can't always play it safe. Not in an elimination league.

Playing it safe probably means you don't get eliminated early in the season. Maybe you even make it to week 9 or 10. But to win the whole thing (and that is the objective, isn't it?), you have to do better than teams that got lucky (so to speak). These are the teams that had decent early picks too (a good RB here, a solid WR there, etc). But then something hit right and they find themselves still alive in weeks 12, 13, 14, etc.

By "hitting right" I mean they have at least a few guys that outplayed their draft spot.

Last year, guys that significantly outplayed their draft spot: Norwood, Jones-Drew, L.Evans, Colston, Furrey, etc.

And that's what I am trying to do (w/ some of my picks - not always trying to hit homeruns, but enough basehits should do the trick) - take guys that have a good shot of outplaying their draft spot.

(A decent discussion of this came about in one of the WSLs earlier this year about playing it safe vs taking some risk. The guys I was discussing it with and I both agreed on the theory - but we each had a different way of going about that. But that's neither here nor there.)

So why take a chance on Winslow? Because of his potential.

Consider that he had more receptions than any other TE last year.

And now consider that this is a league that rewards TEs at a clip of 2 points per reception (RBs & WRs only 1 ppr).

So in these leagues, waiting too long on TE burns teams.

(Yes, seems odd to guys who have played FF for years in the traditional 10 or 12 team sense. But in survivor 16 team 2 ppr leagues - different story. In standard FF leagues I would have been waiting several more rounds for a TE. But in this league - you can't.)

So I wanted a very good TE. I could have played it safe with a Shockey, Heap, Crumpler, Witten, Cooley, etc. But again, this is a 2 ppr league for TEs, and respectively they each had 66, 73, 56, 64, and 57. (That's an average of 63. Winslow had 26 more receptions (89 in just his 2nd year) than the average of the next group of TEs.)

(And btw, these guys will do well - no doubt. But for where they were or will get drafted - are they really outplaying their draft spot as discussed above?! Meaning, they will go very soon anyway - and will average 26 receptions fewer (or maybe even more than that if Winslow improves on his sophomore campaign.)

Now consider that he has only played two years and therefore, should only be getting better.

If he does in fact fully recover from that surgery, he should only better his #s from last year.

I could probably go on - but I have probably bored anyone who is still reading - long enough.

(And I know I have now fully jinxed him.)

Edit to add: On top of everything from above explaining why I wanted a solid TE, keep in mind also that I knew that one of the guys from that next tier of TEs wouldn't even be available in all likelihood by the time it got back to me 24 picks later.

 
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Bri said:
I don't mind long answers HTF but microfracture surgery is what he had this time
Click to expand...
January 30, 2007, 18:59 Browns :: TE

TE Winslow Undergoes Knee Surgery

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

Cleveland Browns TE Kellen Winslow Jr. underwent arthroscopic surgery on Tuesday to remove scar tissue and repair cartilage damage in his right knee. He is expected to make a full recovery.

-------------

According to some sources it is listed as arthroscopic surgery. In others it is listed as microfracture surgery.

Truth is - they are very similar (almost one in the same).

Microfracture surgery actually is performed through arthroscopy.

Either way, they are both minimally invasive and look to fix cartiliage issues.

I am not a doctor - so if I am more off base than I ever realized - please let me know. But the above was my understanding.

 
Hear-the-Footsteps said:
Bri said:
I don't mind long answers HTF but microfracture surgery is what he had this time
Click to expand...
January 30, 2007, 18:59 Browns :: TE

TE Winslow Undergoes Knee Surgery

Associated Press, ESPN - [Full Article]

Cleveland Browns TE Kellen Winslow Jr. underwent arthroscopic surgery on Tuesday to remove scar tissue and repair cartilage damage in his right knee. He is expected to make a full recovery.

-------------

According to some sources it is listed as arthroscopic surgery. In others it is listed as microfracture surgery.

Truth is - they are very similar (almost one in the same).

Microfracture surgery actually is performed through arthroscopy.

Either way, they are both minimally invasive and look to fix cartiliage issues.

I am not a doctor - so if I am more off base than I ever realized - please let me know. But the above was my understanding.
Click to expand...
I'm not a doctor either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. IIRC-Micro is much different because they drill into the bone. The recovery is longer and more trickey. And while the success rate is better than it used to be it's not low by comparison.I'm sure someone can clarify this.

Here the definition:

Microfracture surgery is an orthopedic surgical technique that can help restore knee cartilage by creating tiny fractures in the adjacent bones, causing new cartilage to develop. It can be used to treat both degenerative knee problems as well as cartilage injuries, and has gained a high profile in the sports world in recent years; numerous professional athletes including members of the NBA and NFL have undergone the procedure.

The surgery is quick (taking around 30 minutes), minimally invasive, and has significantly shorter recovery times than an arthroplasty (knee replacement). Combined with a high rate of success, these factors have caused orthopedic surgeons to use the procedure with increasing frequency.

Procedure

The surgery is performed through an arthroscopy. The surgeon first removes any calcified cartilage. Tiny fractures are then created in the adjacent bones through the use of an awl. Blood and bone marrow (which contains stem cells) seep out of the fractures, creating a blood clot that releases cartilage-building cells. The microfractures are treated as an injury by the body, which is why the surgery results in new, replacement cartilage.[6] The procedure does have limitations, and is less effective in treating older patients, overweight patients, or cartilage damage that is larger than 2.5 cm.[6]

[edit] Recovery

Current studies have shown a success rate of 75 to 80 percent among patients 45 years of age or younger, even among professional athletes.[3][5] With the help of physical therapy, patients can often return to sports (or other intense activities) in about 4 months. However, this is a best-case scenario and depends on the severity of the cartilage damage (and any other conditions existing in the knee). Normal patients and professional athletes who play at the highest level however are quite different, as Chris Webber, who underwent the surgery, has stated that a full recovery in 4 months is nearly impossible. Webber returned to the NBA eight months after his surgery but did not feel "like himself" until a few years later.[7]

[edit] Use in professional sports

There have been many notable professional athletes who have undergone the procedure. Partially because of the high level of stress placed on the knees by these athletes, the surgery is not a panacea and results have been mixed. Many players' careers effectively end despite the surgery. However, some players such as Jason Kidd and Zach Randolph have been able to return at or near their pre-surgery form.

In October 2005, young star Amare Stoudemire of the NBA's Phoenix Suns underwent one of the highest-profile microfracture surgeries to date. He returned to the court in March 2006 and initially appeared to have made a full recovery, but subsequently started feeling stiffness in both knees (his right knee had been overcompensating for the injured left knee). He and the team doctor decided he needed more time to rehab and he did not return until the 2006-2007 NBA season.[8] During the 2006-2007 season, Stoudemire has returned to form, registering numbers comparable to his promising 2004-2005 rookie campaign and playing in the 2007 NBA All-Star Game. His recent success has brought positive publicity to the procedure, further distancing it from a previous reputation as a possible "career death sentence" in the sports world. [9]

 
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HTF

arthroscopic is the type of procedure or how they use only a small whole to work inside the body and perform.

ACL is the anterior cruciate ligament and it is often replaced with an ACL from a donor deceased body or by using a piece of your hamstring

Microfracture(As FM said) is done on the kneecap where they drill tiny holes to get the knee to bleed as the blood is a necessity toward the regenerative healing process.

When an ACL is done it's not that the body will be healed per se but more about how the body reacts/adjusts to the new ligament

http://www.footballhangout.com/Articles/proprio.html

Microfracture is more of a risk(holes in knee "please work, please" otherwise they just drilled holes in a guy's knee for nothing and well...naturally it's weaker with the holes if the knee didn't heal itself. Stephen Davis' surgery was well publicized so feel free to google him and his surgery to see a success. IIRC Terrell Davis' knee didn't react well to this so there's an example of the negative side

 
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Hear-the-Footsteps said:
Okay - so I am screwed is what you guys are telling me.
Click to expand...
According to the Browns, he should be fine:"February 21, 2007, 09:53 Browns :: TETE Winslow May Miss MinicampJeff Schudel, Ohio News-Herald - [Full Article]TE Kellen Winslow Jr. is still on crutches after his surgery Jan. 30 to clean out scar tissue and repair cartilage. He might miss the offseason program and minicamp, but he should be ready by training camp, GM Phil Savage said. "
 
Hear-the-Footsteps said:
Okay - so I am screwed is what you guys are telling me.
Click to expand...
no not at allIt was just that you had the wrong type of knee surgeryIt is possible you are but only time will tellQuite candidly I don't believe the Browns org or fans could handle Winslow NOT being OK as has been stated so I'm not so sure how true that is or isn't. Everyone seems to get hurt for them
 
Terry Glenn, DAL WR

Wanted to go QB or TE here, but none seem a great value at this spot. Glenn, OTOH, seems a steal :football:

PM-ing next

 
With the 5.10 pick, FM selects:

R. Moss-WR, Oak (I think)

PM'd Valence

I just can't pass him up as the 26th WR with all that talent. He may disappoint again but this is my "risk" pick and at least I waited until round 5.

Sent a PM to restless for my 6.7 pick in case you get back to me tonight.

 
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Family Matters said:
With the 5.10 pick, FM selects:

R. Moss-WR, Oak (I think)

PM'd Valence

I just can't pass him up as the 26th WR with all that talent. He may disappoint again but this is my "risk" pick and at least I waited until round 5.

Sent a PM to restless for my 6.7 pick in case you get back to me tonight.
Click to expand...
a plague on all your houses.5.11 Deion Branch

 
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Duckboy and renesauz, thanks for putting the links into post 1. It's helpful.

Also, I like to PM the "on deck" person too IF I see the next guy is "in" the forum when I click on his link, to try and move things along. Nopt sure if that's an idea for anyone else to try

 
valence said:
Family Matters said:
With the 5.10 pick, FM selects:

R. Moss-WR, Oak (I think)

PM'd Valence

I just can't pass him up as the 26th WR with all that talent. He may disappoint again but this is my "risk" pick and at least I waited until round 5.

Sent a PM to restless for my 6.7 pick in case you get back to me tonight.
Click to expand...
a plague on all your houses.5.11 Deion Branch
Click to expand...
That'll never work. You said houses. I only have 1 houses.
 
good deal i have oldfatguy's picks and family matters picks so we might be able to make some good head way today but i will give them a little time to see if they come online but send me a pm when they r on the clock please

 
restless natives said:
good deal i have oldfatguy's picks and family matters picks so we might be able to make some good head way today but i will give them a little time to see if they come online but send me a pm when they r on the clock please
Click to expand...
Just to piggyback off of this - I will be on the computer just about all day.So if anyone would like to send me a PM of their list to keep this moving - please feel free to do so.
 
Bri said:
I like to PM the "on deck" person too IF I see the next guy is "in" the forum when I click on his link, to try and move things along. Nopt sure if that's an idea for anyone else to try
Click to expand...
People should probably be sending three PM's after each pick: 1) U R up2) On deck3) In the holeTakes an extra 30 seconds and gives as much head's up notice as possible to keep things rolling.
 
Since I'm gambling this league...let's stick with it. Hope Detroit doesn't draft Johnson and Furrey doesn't move to the slot.

5.15 WR Mike Furrey

 
restless natives said:
Oldfatguy takes5.16 Mark Clayton, wr
Click to expand...
It was between Clayton and Furrey with me. I think Clayton is a safer pick but decided to gamble with Furrey a bit. Besides I didn't want my team to be almost exactly like lions327 in PDSL3. lions3276.01 Jon Kitna, DET, QB101.16 Maurice Jones-Drew, JAC, RB153.16 Michael Turner, SD, RB284.01 Lavernues Coles, NYJ, WR175.16 Mark Clayton, BAL, WR282.01 Antonio Gates, SD, TE1 ShadowfaxKitnaHenryTurnerColesFurreyGatesNot sure if that's just where players were falling...or we're making good/bad picks. :mellow:
 
Really really pissed that I just missed on Galloway and Clayton. :popcorn:

6.04: WR- Vincent Jackson

Should be the Chargers' #1 WR next year. (Emphasis on "should.")

Will PM next guy.

 
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