Playoff Seeding Debate (1 Viewer)

[Art Vandalay]

HI Everyone we are in a league debate about playoff seeding can you please help out.

6 teams make the playoffs. The two divsion winners get bye and the the other 4 play in the quarter finals.

teams finish (after using all tiebreakers as follows)

Divsion 1

A (10-3)

B (7-6)

C (7-6)

Division 2

D(8-5)

E(8-5)

F(7-6)

So A & D have byes and agreed E has 3rd seed.

One group belives we should then clump all the 7-6 teams together and use season standing tiebreakers to re-seed. This causes team B to get the 6th becuae he has the least points even though he has finished 2nd in the division.

One group belives the 2nd place in the other divsion should be the 4th seed with the 5th and 6th seed being determined who won head to head earlier meaning that C gets 5th and F gets 6th

Which do you think is right?

 

[mbuehner]

I think if you're figuring this out now somebody is gonna end up pissed off, and rightly so.

 

[SWC]

how do you not have this in your rules already my brother i feel bad for you because no matter what someone will be mad and probably hit there couch out of frustration and hey the couch didnt do anything to anyone so from now on have rules set up before your season starts othewise if you have to figure out rules during the seasson people could start trying to argue that field goals should be worth about 12 points or something take it to the bank

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Why doesn't team B play C and team E play F. Seems straightforward to me. Why complicate things, they're in divisions all season, why change now?

 

[Zoblefu]

The top 3 seeds seem obvious.

The others should use whatever regular season method of tiebreaking is unless you have some other specific rule. Our league ignores head to head matchups and just looks at total points scored [to break ties of the same record], so that is how we would do it in my league.

But yours seems different since B is apparently ranked higher than C. If you use head to head first... there are 3 teams with that record, can you use only head to head to sort the three of them? (Did one team beat both of the others?) If not, seems it would be total points scored anyway.

Really hard to know more without reading through all of your league rules... hope I was at all helpful

 

[solorca]

Stick with the same rules the NFL uses. The division winners get the top three seeds and the remaining spots are based on records (and subsequent tiebreakers). It doesn't matter where they finish within their own division.

 

[killrobotkill]

Personally, I like total points as the first tiebreaker, because that's the purest measure of how well a fantasy team has performed this year. But a lot of people prefer it to be more like the NFL and give head-to-head matchups more weight.

In my main league, we settled on things this way, and it seems fair enough to me.

Ties within division (2 teams):

(1) Head-to-head

(2) Divisional record

(3) Total points

Ties within division (3 or more teams):

(1) Common record against each other

(2) Divisional record

(3) Total points

Ties from different divisions (2 teams):

(1) Head-to-head

(2) Total points

Ties from different divisions (3 or more teams):

(1) Common record against each other

(2) Total points

 

[Art Vandalay]

Update the 3 7-6 teams were all 1-1 vs eachother with team F having the most points.

The debate is basically even though team B wins using tie breaks in his division if hes forced to re-seed all together he drops to the last seed.

So does finishing second in his divsion based on tie breakers mean nothing?

Should he be forced to go through more tiebreakers all over?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

the remaining spots are based on records (and subsequent tiebreakers). It doesn't matter where they finish within their own division.

This

The debate is basically even though team B wins using tie breaks in his division if hes forced to re-seed all together he drops to the last seed.So does finishing second in his divsion based on tie breakers mean nothing?

YesETA: All that coming in 2nd in his division means is that B won the 2-way tiebreaker with C. But he's not in a two-way tiebreaker with C, he's in a three-way tiebreaker with C and F.

 

[Breesisdaman]

know your rules before the season, Everyone plays by the same rules and if it doesnt work out for you then better luck next year. Never change the rules at the end of the season because that is just Bush league IMO. Oh and

 

[belljr]

It depends on how you decided your league. Does each division count as a "conference" or these divisions are the whole league and mimic the NFC/AFC.

So basically if you play them like conferences - B vs C, E vs F BUT then B/C would play A and E/F would play D no matter what if that was your intent.

If you are just taking the best 6 teams of your league then you apply Wild Card tie breakers, which appears what you are doing. So however that falls is the way to do it, so you say Team B is #6.

 

[belljr]

the remaining spots are based on records (and subsequent tiebreakers). It doesn't matter where they finish within their own division.

This

The debate is basically even though team B wins using tie breaks in his division if hes forced to re-seed all together he drops to the last seed.

So does finishing second in his divsion based on tie breakers mean nothing?

YesETA: All that coming in 2nd in his division means is that B won the 2-way tiebreaker with C. But he's not in a two-way tiebreaker with C, he's in a three-way tiebreaker with C and F.

But does it really go to a 3-way tiebreaker. This is the start of the Wild Card rulesNFL Tiebreaking Procedures

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1.Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

Since there are only 2 divisions. We break the division ties, doesn't this mean then we take the remaining highest seeded team with those records. So the first check would only be B vs F since B is the highest seed in that division.

Am I misinterpreting that step?

ETA: to finish the example B vs F. If B is the higher seed. Then you do C vs F to fill out the last 2. If F wins that tie breaker then B is 5 and C is 6 since that tie was already determined because the first step is to apply division tiebreakers.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

the remaining spots are based on records (and subsequent tiebreakers). It doesn't matter where they finish within their own division.

This

The debate is basically even though team B wins using tie breaks in his division if hes forced to re-seed all together he drops to the last seed.

So does finishing second in his divsion based on tie breakers mean nothing?

YesETA: All that coming in 2nd in his division means is that B won the 2-way tiebreaker with C. But he's not in a two-way tiebreaker with C, he's in a three-way tiebreaker with C and F.

But does it really go to a 3-way tiebreaker. This is the start of the Wild Card rulesNFL Tiebreaking Procedures

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1.Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

Since there are only 2 divisions. We break the division ties, doesn't this mean then we take the remaining highest seeded team with those records. So the first check would only be B vs F since B is the highest seed in that division.

Am I misinterpreting that step?

ETA: to finish the example B vs F. If B is the higher seed. Then you do C vs F to fill out the last 2. If F wins that tie breaker then B is 5 and C is 6 since that tie was already determined because the first step is to apply division tiebreakers.

I don't know if they're trying to mimic the NFL rules. It sounds like they already have a process in their rules for breaking a three-way tie, and now some people are trying to change it to something more like the NFL rules.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

HI Everyone we are in a league debate about playoff seeding can you please help out.6 teams make the playoffs. The two divsion winners get bye and the the other 4 play in the quarter finals.teams finish (after using all tiebreakers as follows)Divsion 1A (10-3)B (7-6)C (7-6)Division 2D(8-5)E(8-5)F(7-6)So A & D have byes and agreed E has 3rd seed.One group belives we should then clump all the 7-6 teams together and use season standing tiebreakers to re-seed. This causes team B to get the 6th becuae he has the least points even though he has finished 2nd in the division.One group belives the 2nd place in the other divsion should be the 4th seed with the 5th and 6th seed being determined who won head to head earlier meaning that C gets 5th and F gets 6thWhich do you think is right?

What do your rules say? You MUST have some sort of playoff seeding rules that list things. No advice here should matter more than what's written down in the rules. Are you telling us that you have NOTHING written down about this at all? You must have something to post. The NFL's tiebreakers dont mean squat if you've got something different written in your league rules.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

 

[belljr]

the remaining spots are based on records (and subsequent tiebreakers). It doesn't matter where they finish within their own division.

This

The debate is basically even though team B wins using tie breaks in his division if hes forced to re-seed all together he drops to the last seed.

So does finishing second in his divsion based on tie breakers mean nothing?

YesETA: All that coming in 2nd in his division means is that B won the 2-way tiebreaker with C. But he's not in a two-way tiebreaker with C, he's in a three-way tiebreaker with C and F.

But does it really go to a 3-way tiebreaker. This is the start of the Wild Card rulesNFL Tiebreaking Procedures

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1.Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

Since there are only 2 divisions. We break the division ties, doesn't this mean then we take the remaining highest seeded team with those records. So the first check would only be B vs F since B is the highest seed in that division.

Am I misinterpreting that step?

ETA: to finish the example B vs F. If B is the higher seed. Then you do C vs F to fill out the last 2. If F wins that tie breaker then B is 5 and C is 6 since that tie was already determined because the first step is to apply division tiebreakers.

I don't know if they're trying to mimic the NFL rules. It sounds like they already have a process in their rules for breaking a three-way tie, and now some people are trying to change it to something more like the NFL rules.

ok forget him just for my sanity - if it's only 2 divisions, does what I posted make sense? Not all 3 get thrown in if 2 teams in that scenario come from the same division - right?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

the remaining spots are based on records (and subsequent tiebreakers). It doesn't matter where they finish within their own division.

This

The debate is basically even though team B wins using tie breaks in his division if hes forced to re-seed all together he drops to the last seed.

So does finishing second in his divsion based on tie breakers mean nothing?

YesETA: All that coming in 2nd in his division means is that B won the 2-way tiebreaker with C. But he's not in a two-way tiebreaker with C, he's in a three-way tiebreaker with C and F.

But does it really go to a 3-way tiebreaker. This is the start of the Wild Card rulesNFL Tiebreaking Procedures

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1.Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2.Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

Since there are only 2 divisions. We break the division ties, doesn't this mean then we take the remaining highest seeded team with those records. So the first check would only be B vs F since B is the highest seed in that division.

Am I misinterpreting that step?

ETA: to finish the example B vs F. If B is the higher seed. Then you do C vs F to fill out the last 2. If F wins that tie breaker then B is 5 and C is 6 since that tie was already determined because the first step is to apply division tiebreakers.

I don't know if they're trying to mimic the NFL rules. It sounds like they already have a process in their rules for breaking a three-way tie, and now some people are trying to change it to something more like the NFL rules.

ok forget him just for my sanity - if it's only 2 divisions, does what I posted make sense? Not all 3 get thrown in if 2 teams in that scenario come from the same division - right?

Yes, I believe you're correct from an NFL perspective.

 

[mbuehner]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

This. Its bad enough that your record takes the hit when you lose a game with the 2nd highest points, but when it comes back to haunt you in the tie breaker its overkill. Total points should rule tiebreakers as strength of schedule becomes completely irrelevant, and since nobody is actually 'playing each other' in the sense that your team can stop their team that's the way it should be.

 

[firstseason1988]

how do you not have this in your rules already my brother i feel bad for you because no matter what someone will be mad and probably hit there couch out of frustration and hey the couch didnt do anything to anyone so from now on have rules set up before your season starts othewise if you have to figure out rules during the seasson people could start trying to argue that field goals should be worth about 12 points or something take it to the bank

I started a thread at beginning of season trying to help people out with theses kinds of issues. It got deleted in about 5 minutes. Not sure why. I asked fbg to have an article at beginning of season after they deleted my thread. good luck, too bad you didn't read my thread the 5 minutes it was here.

 

[firstseason1988]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

Yeah, that was my conclusion on the thread that got started and deleted in 5 minutes.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

+1

 

[SWC]

if you have no rules written about tie breakers then i think you have to go with the nfls rules because otherwise you are just making stuff up after the fact and will have problems so do that its the most fair and stone cold baby

 

[Apple Jack]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

+1

Yep. The logic in using head to head in the NFL isn't really appropriate in fantasy.

 

[SWC]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

+1

Yep. The logic in using head to head in the NFL isn't really appropriate in fantasy.

i think you are right but if you dont have the rules written then you have to go with the nfl rules its the only fair way

 

[Art Vandalay]

Thank you all for the responses.

We do have written rules but we went rom 4 divsions to 2 divisions as we tried a re-alignment.

I guess we will re-seed everyone now going into the playoffs as it seems the league has 3 brother who are in it and are vocal they want it this way.

 

[Joe Summer]

One group belives the 2nd place in the other divsion should be the 4th seed with the 5th and 6th seed being determined who won head to head earlier meaning that C gets 5th and F gets 6th

That group is dumb. The NFL doesn't do it that way and neither should you.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Points scored should always be the first tiebreaker in FF.

+1

Yep. The logic in using head to head in the NFL isn't really appropriate in fantasy.

Exactly. The object of drafting players is to get the ones who scores the most points, so it stands to reason that the team that scored more points over the course of the whole season is the better team. Head to head is a stupid tiebreaker in FF. What if two teams tie for the division, but both games they played happened when one of the teams was crippled by byes and they lost both games? Does that make the other team better, just because, through complete luck of the draw, they landed them on the schedule those weeks? Of course not. Total points is always the way to go for tiebreaking purposes.