Please provide examples to refute my prediction that Leinart/Anderson (1 Viewer)

[shader]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.

When Brady went down, Cassell put up monster numbers.

When Brees left, Rivers dominated

When Favre left, Rodgers dominated

When Trent Green was injured, Kurt Warner came in and dominated

When Warner was let go, Bulger dominated when the offense around him was elite

My point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.

Someone show me where I'm wrong, because if not, than Leinart is a HUGE sleeper.

Perhaps the best young WR in the game, two really good young rb's, and a bevy of young, talented receivers. Also it's a system that is proven to score points.

The loss of Boldin does hurt though, although I think the improvements of Breaston, Doucet and the rookie Roberts might make up for Anquan.

Thoughts?

 

[Sabertooth]

Leinart cratered last time he was given the keys.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

Leinart cratered last time he was given the keys.

Maybe I give Warner too much credit, or don't give Leinart/Anderson enough, but the talent gap is wider than any example above. The only reasonable comparison is Warner/Bulger but the system they had in place in STL is nothing like what we are going to see in AZ. Martz has taken his QB statistical bonanza system to other places and it's worked (fantasy wise) over and over.

 

[baconisgood]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.When Brady went down, Cassell put up monster numbers.When Brees left, Rivers dominatedWhen Favre left, Rodgers dominatedWhen Trent Green was injured, Kurt Warner came in and dominatedWhen Warner was let go, Bulger dominated when the offense around him was eliteMy point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.Someone show me where I'm wrong, because if not, than Leinart is a HUGE sleeper.Perhaps the best young WR in the game, two really good young rb's, and a bevy of young, talented receivers. Also it's a system that is proven to score points. The loss of Boldin does hurt though, although I think the improvements of Breaston, Doucet and the rookie Roberts might make up for Anquan.Thoughts?

For 1 Brees was let go because the team had Rivers, same with Favre- that is different from Warner retiring and the team basically only having limited options.For 2- Rivers didn't dominate year 1- 3,400 yards and 22 TDs and 3152/21 his first 2 years. Not exactly fantasy stud off the bat. For 3- None of these examples had a major WR change- where as Boldin is now gone. For 4- Steve young's last full season as a starter he put up 4200/36 TDs + 454/6 rushing in 15 games- Garcia didn't come within spitting distance of those #s in his starts.

 

[butcher boy]

Leinart and Anderson are bad quarterbacks.

/endthread

 

[Ministry of Pain]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.When Brady went down, Cassell put up monster numbers.When Brees left, Rivers dominatedWhen Favre left, Rodgers dominatedWhen Trent Green was injured, Kurt Warner came in and dominatedWhen Warner was let go, Bulger dominated when the offense around him was eliteMy point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.Someone show me where I'm wrong, because if not, than Leinart is a HUGE sleeper.Perhaps the best young WR in the game, two really good young rb's, and a bevy of young, talented receivers. Also it's a system that is proven to score points. The loss of Boldin does hurt though, although I think the improvements of Breaston, Doucet and the rookie Roberts might make up for Anquan.Thoughts?

Hey Shades,My question for you is this. Why do you want the headaches of this combo? There are so many good situations to pick form that unless Leinart is top5 at the position you really are not missing out on bypassing him and taking something a lot more solid. Let this situation unfold from the bleachers is what I am saying. The prize IMO is not worth the risk. Last year Warner was #11 in most leagues at QB, leinart is going to be a downgrade in most 12-14 team leagues i can find many QBs still on the board with nice upside to the point I don't need this mess on my roster. Cheers,MOP

 

[Don Quixote]

Elway to Griese an example?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

those situations have nothing to do with the skill level of Leinart or Anderson....

I agree with MOP, too many other options, even at QB2, just stay away....

 

[Chase Stuart]

Rick Mirer taking over for Gannon on the '03 Raiders

Ryan Fitzpatrick taking over for Palmer on the '08 Bengals

Tim Rattay and Ken Dorsey taking over for Jeff Garcia on the '04 49ers

There have also been a ton of QBs who played well for one year and then stunk the next year, which would seem to qualify for the spirit of the question.

 

[Captain Hook]

My point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.

Someone show me where I'm wrong,

Thoughts?

THAT is where you are wrong. The Cardinals are NOT a dynamite offense.

They WERE a good offense not because of all the other players talented as they may be, but because they had Kurt Warner, a HOF quarterback running that particular offense......AND that particular offense no long exists - with Warner gone, regardless of who is or might be there, Whiz will return to more of a run based offense. Yes there will be plenty of pass play options - they are created by a heavier reliance on Wells and Hightower and on Leinart doing what HE needs to do NOT what Warner wanted to do.

 

[HoleFiller]

Elway to Griese an example?

Not positive but pretty sure Griese set a record for highest qb rating before his ultimate demise. But he def was better in his first few years in denver than the end and in miami.

 

[cr8f]

John Skelton is Flacco lite.

 

[shader]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.When Brady went down, Cassell put up monster numbers.When Brees left, Rivers dominatedWhen Favre left, Rodgers dominatedWhen Trent Green was injured, Kurt Warner came in and dominatedWhen Warner was let go, Bulger dominated when the offense around him was eliteMy point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.Someone show me where I'm wrong, because if not, than Leinart is a HUGE sleeper.Perhaps the best young WR in the game, two really good young rb's, and a bevy of young, talented receivers. Also it's a system that is proven to score points. The loss of Boldin does hurt though, although I think the improvements of Breaston, Doucet and the rookie Roberts might make up for Anquan.Thoughts?

Hey Shades,My question for you is this. Why do you want the headaches of this combo? There are so many good situations to pick form that unless Leinart is top5 at the position you really are not missing out on bypassing him and taking something a lot more solid. Let this situation unfold from the bleachers is what I am saying. The prize IMO is not worth the risk. Last year Warner was #11 in most leagues at QB, leinart is going to be a downgrade in most 12-14 team leagues i can find many QBs still on the board with nice upside to the point I don't need this mess on my roster. Cheers,MOP

Well I wouldn't take one as a primary starter. But I think Leinart is a great backup that potentially could be a lower end number 1 QB

 

[shader]

Elway to Griese an example?

Not positive but pretty sure Griese set a record for highest qb rating before his ultimate demise. But he def was better in his first few years in denver than the end and in miami.

Yeah Griese was decent at the beginning.

 

[Lab]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.

I think history is all over the map on this one. (1) Ryan Fitzpatrick taking over for Palmer on 2008 Bengals? A very strong offense in prior year went downhill after Palmer's injury, and then rose again in 2009.(2) The revolving cycle of garbage that played QB in Minnesota 2005-08? Offense was top-5 in 2002-04 under C-Pep, and again in 2009 under Favre, but a wasteland in between.(3) Pennington to Favre to Sanchez in 2007-09? The offense wasn't really extremely talented, so maybe this is a bad example. But it does show that a strong QB like Favre can really elevate the play of an entire offense, and the offense will drop back to a lower range after the strong QB is gone.(4) Orton taking over for Cutler in 2009 Denver? Maybe not a great example because that team had lots of problems, and Orton was not too bad. But he stepped into a very similar situation as Cutler, and the offense did not perform nearly as well as under Cutler.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.When Brady went down, Cassell put up monster numbers.When Brees left, Rivers dominatedWhen Favre left, Rodgers dominatedWhen Trent Green was injured, Kurt Warner came in and dominatedWhen Warner was let go, Bulger dominated when the offense around him was eliteMy point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.Someone show me where I'm wrong, because if not, than Leinart is a HUGE sleeper.Perhaps the best young WR in the game, two really good young rb's, and a bevy of young, talented receivers. Also it's a system that is proven to score points. The loss of Boldin does hurt though, although I think the improvements of Breaston, Doucet and the rookie Roberts might make up for Anquan.Thoughts?

Hey Shades,My question for you is this. Why do you want the headaches of this combo? There are so many good situations to pick form that unless Leinart is top5 at the position you really are not missing out on bypassing him and taking something a lot more solid. Let this situation unfold from the bleachers is what I am saying. The prize IMO is not worth the risk. Last year Warner was #11 in most leagues at QB, leinart is going to be a downgrade in most 12-14 team leagues i can find many QBs still on the board with nice upside to the point I don't need this mess on my roster. Cheers,MOP

Well I wouldn't take one as a primary starter. But I think Leinart is a great backup that potentially could be a lower end number 1 QB

Top12? We could say that about a ton of QBs, but what are the percentages of it happening to Leinart? I posted this in another Leinart thread but what would the money line be for Leinart to make it into the top12?+250? +400? higher/lower? +125 for you personally? I find too many QBs with a better situation going on to waste or risk a pick on Leinart. Who is your QB1 going to be that you draft in front of Leinart? My feeling is if you take a QB in the 1st 3-4 rounds...guys like Brees, Rodgers, Romo, etc...you really only need a QB for a 1 week bye filler, honestly. So many QBs throw for 4,000 yds it seems these days. You cannot expect Leinart to throw for what Warner did...Warner was QB 11 last year with Fitz and Boldin, now AZ has less weapons in the passing game, Breaston is not Boldin, and their defense is going to be worse IMHO so they might not be on the field as much on offense. What is Leinart's ADP right now? Who would you want to take him over? Why not take Big Ben later and just miss the 1st 4 weeks(assuming he gets his suspension reduced) and then you have Ben and whoever you draft as a QB1 and you have a terrific duo for the rest of the season.Just my opinion Shades, good to see you over on this side in the SP.

 

[Don Quixote]

Elway to Griese an example?

Not positive but pretty sure Griese set a record for highest qb rating before his ultimate demise. But he def was better in his first few years in denver than the end and in miami.

Yeah Griese was decent at the beginning.

Griese stunk in 1999. His stats were better in 2000 though.

 

[fightingillini]

In the past 10-15 years or so, I'm trying to think of examples in which a QB in an extremely talented offense was injured or retired, and the backup struggled.When Brady went down, Cassell put up monster numbers.When Brees left, Rivers dominatedWhen Favre left, Rodgers dominatedWhen Trent Green was injured, Kurt Warner came in and dominatedWhen Warner was let go, Bulger dominated when the offense around him was eliteMy point is that usually, when a QB is inserted into a dynamite offense, he succeeds. Now there aren't alot of examples to "prove" this, but I came up with this theory in the past few minutes.Someone show me where I'm wrong, because if not, than Leinart is a HUGE sleeper.Perhaps the best young WR in the game, two really good young rb's, and a bevy of young, talented receivers. Also it's a system that is proven to score points. The loss of Boldin does hurt though, although I think the improvements of Breaston, Doucet and the rookie Roberts might make up for Anquan.Thoughts?

Mine are:1) Big dropoff in QB talent level.....I think Leinart blows. He hasn't shown that he can get it down the field, I question is leadership and his decision making ability.2) IMO, you're underestimating the loss of Boldin. Boldin is a Pro Bowl WR. Breaston and Doucet aren't close to Boldin's talent. DCs are going to double team, if not triple team Fitz. Why wouldn't they? Does Breaston or Doucet really scare you? Does the AZ TE scare you? Not really.3) AZ is going to run the ball a lot this year. I think you see Wisenhunt try to put Leinart in situations where he doen't make the big mistake.So I disagree that AZ will be a dynamite offense.Leinart's current ADP is QB23. Personally, I would rather take Mark Sanchez or Jason Campbell at around that ADP level. Campbell has a great shot of exceeding his ADP.

 

[Monsters of the Midway]

How about a similar situation but in reverse? QB plays in very talented offense and does little. He is replaced by aging star who dominates. I'm talking about the 2008/2009 Vikings, Tavaris Jackson/Gus Frerotte and Brett Favre.

The 2008 Vikings threw for 3200 yards and 21 TDs. Favre came into the same offense with very similar players and put up 4200 and 33 (QB3). Both had ADP, Chester Taylor, Shiancoe and essentially the same OL. The 2008 team had Bernard Berrian (968 yds, 7 TDs, WR 18) and the 09 team had Harvin. His numbers weren't as good but is a similar player so let's call a wash.

The obvious difference is Sidney Rice. I think that is a bit chicken and egg-would he have broken out like that if T-Jack and In Gus We Trust was still throwing the ball to him? Probably not-but it actually fits this bizarro world discussion as he can play the Boldin role to Favre's Warner.

So I see quite a few similarities to shader's question and while Leinart is certainly more accurate than T-Jack and Gus, he's a lot closer to those guys in production than Rivers, Rodgers or Warner. Even Bulger made a pro bowl or two IIRC. You'd have to put this up as a reason to stay away from Leinart/Anderson.

 

[bagger]

Campbell has a great shot of exceeding his ADP.

Quiet you.Nothing to see here.Move along.This just made me think of a poll question...brb

 

[Marauder]

Elway to Griese an example?

Not positive but pretty sure Griese set a record for highest qb rating before his ultimate demise. But he def was better in his first few years in denver than the end and in miami.

Yeah Griese was decent at the beginning.

If you consider 14 TD's and 14 Int's decent, then yeah, I can see Leinert doing that. I didn't realize your standards for a "HUGE sleeper" were that low though.