PPR leagues (1 Viewer)

[Go deep]

A couple of Phenom leagues i am in just got started. I dont usually do PPR's, but i have never done one where RB's score half of what WR's and TE's get. Plus, you only have to start 1 RB. It obviously shifts the value from RB's to WR's, but just how much? Accoridng to my VBD sheet, Andre Johnson outscores Chris Johnson by ~20 points. Does that make him the 1.1? Is 3 WR's to start the draft a nobrainer, or am i missing something?

Im not after advice on how to draft, the leagues are in the 3rd and 4th rounds. I am just looking for some thoughts from anyone who is familiar with this type of league. It is also 5 pt TD for QB, not sure if that matters much, or does it?

 

[Go deep]

Where are all these PPR guys who hate Non-PPR's leagues when you need them?

 

[TheFanatic]

How many teams and what is the number for the rest of the starters?

 

[Go deep]

How many teams and what is the number for the rest of the starters?

12 team, 1QB,1RB,2WR,1TE,2Flex,1K,1DMy thinking is 18-20 of the first 24 picks should be WR's, am i wrong?

 

[KellysHeroes]

I commish 2 leagues that are .5 PPR RB (w/ .2 Per carry) and 1 PPR for WR & TE; both leagues have this option of starting 1 - 3 RBs. If you only want to start 1 then you have to play a 2nd TE. However you can also start a Max of 4 WRs.

When I created the league I thought RB would command a higher price tag but they don't... WRs do. Which is weird because with the .2 a carry the RBs score more. And whats even harder to understand is that trading for an elite TE is the easiest of all the positions... I'm currently running with Gates / Witten in my starting line up.

 

[TheWick]

Are you in Beta 10?

The top scoring teams in those leagues are usually 1 RB and 4 WR teams...try to be one of those.

 

[ookook]

You are wrong...WRs are popular but not THAT popular. Put it into Draft Dominator and have a look at value. Only 3 of top 10 in VBD (Joe's Baseline) are WRs. Even going Worst Starter only gives 6 of Top 10 as WRs and 12 of 20.

Personally, if I pick in first four it is still Johnson, Jones-Drew, Peterson, and Rice. And one can argue if one is at the turn to take Rodgers or Brees.

For one thing, they get .5 PPR (which is .5 too much IMHO).

But the other, more important, issue is that there are still supply-and-demand issues of scarcity and plateaus differing across position. So LOTS of WRs of similar quality between WR24 and WR40. Lots of deep drops at RBs.

As an aside, welcome to Phenoms and in which leagues shall I be taking my cut of your entry fees?

-ookook

p.s., Still think PPR and flex blow chunks.

 

[Go deep]

Are you in Beta 10?The top scoring teams in those leagues are usually 1 RB and 4 WR teams...try to be one of those.

Yes, are you? My goal is to be one of those teams, my first 3 picks were WR's, so far so good.

 

[TheFanatic]

How many teams and what is the number for the rest of the starters?

12 team, 1QB,1RB,2WR,1TE,2Flex,1K,1D

My thinking is 18-20 of the first 24 picks should be WR's, am i wrong?

Yes you are. I'm in Hyper Active 1. It's essentially a 12 team PPR that starts 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR TE, and THREE flex positions at RB, WR, and TE. WR's have a TON move value than non PPR's where you only start two of them. A couple years ago ADP was traded for Greg Jennings straight up. I scoffed at the trade but it was pointed out to me that ADP only outscored Jennings by like 8 the year before.

That being said, while WR's score a ton they also do it a lot more inconsistently than RB's. A WR can have 10 catches 1 week and 2 the next. Your top line RB's are going to get 15-20 carries every week barring injury.

My first year in HA I started 4 RB's almost every week and tied for first place in my division. Give me the safety and security of consistent points from RB's all day long over streaky WR's. That being said, a guy like Welker is gold in PPR's. Not a more consistent producer than he is. And he's going to come cheap this year...

 

[TheFanatic]

p.s., Still think PPR and flex blow chunks.

Been doing FFB since 1995. PPR and flex is the only way to go IMO.

 

[Go deep]

You are wrong...WRs are popular but not THAT popular. Put it into Draft Dominator and have a look at value. Only 3 of top 10 in VBD (Joe's Baseline) are WRs. Even going Worst Starter only gives 6 of Top 10 as WRs and 12 of 20. Personally, if I pick in first four it is still Johnson, Jones-Drew, Peterson, and Rice. And one can argue if one is at the turn to take Rodgers or Brees.For one thing, they get .5 PPR (which is .5 too much IMHO).But the other, more important, issue is that there are still supply-and-demand issues of scarcity and plateaus differing across position. So LOTS of WRs of similar quality between WR24 and WR40. Lots of deep drops at RBs.As an aside, welcome to Phenoms and in which leagues shall I be taking my cut of your entry fees? -ookookp.s., Still think PPR and flex blow chunks.

Why wouldnt i take Andre Johnson 1.1 if i project him to score more FF points than CJ. Especially considering that i can start only 1 RB. As a matter of fact, my 22nd ranked WR os projected to score 1 more point than my 11th ranked RB. To not go 1/4 seems crazy to me. As far as supply and demand, if it is best to go 1 RB and 4 WR, then there clearly isnt enough WR's to meet the demand, and plenty of RB's.Ive done Phenoms before, well, one league actually. I am using my winnings from the one i did two years ago for a few leagues this year.

 

[Go deep]

How many teams and what is the number for the rest of the starters?

12 team, 1QB,1RB,2WR,1TE,2Flex,1K,1D

My thinking is 18-20 of the first 24 picks should be WR's, am i wrong?

Yes you are. I'm in Hyper Active 1. It's essentially a 12 team PPR that starts 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR TE, and THREE flex positions at RB, WR, and TE. WR's have a TON move value than non PPR's where you only start two of them. A couple years ago ADP was traded for Greg Jennings straight up. I scoffed at the trade but it was pointed out to me that ADP only outscored Jennings by like 8 the year before.

That being said, while WR's score a ton they also do it a lot more inconsistently than RB's. A WR can have 10 catches 1 week and 2 the next. Your top line RB's are going to get 15-20 carries every week barring injury.

My first year in HA I started 4 RB's almost every week and tied for first place in my division. Give me the safety and security of consistent points from RB's all day long over streaky WR's. That being said, a guy like Welker is gold in PPR's. Not a more consistent producer than he is. And he's going to come cheap this year...

I dont care about consistency so much. Im starting 4 WR's, so even though they are inconsistent as individuals, as a gruop, they should be pretty consistent week in and week out. Another factor i think people are forgetting is injury. Any player can get injured, but it happens to RB's alot more than any other position. That is especially true for dynasty leagues. Assuming Ad outscored Jennings by 8 points each season, wouldnt Jennings be a better player to have in a dynasty league, considering he will likely play much longer?

 

[TheWick]

Are you in Beta 10?The top scoring teams in those leagues are usually 1 RB and 4 WR teams...try to be one of those.

Yes, are you? My goal is to be one of those teams, my first 3 picks were WR's, so far so good.

No, I play in quite a few of those every year though and was looking at the draft this morning. I recognize alot of guys in there and really surprised at some of the picks...it was rare to see a QB go in the first 2 rounds last year. 6 in the first 34 picks is insanity.

 

[Go deep]

p.s., Still think PPR and flex blow chunks.

Been doing FFB since 1995. PPR and flex is the only way to go IMO.

I prefer non-ppr, but its all good to me. I am just not as familiar with PPR.

 

[ookook]

Why wouldnt i take Andre Johnson 1.1 if i project him to score more FF points than CJ.

You should but he won't.

Especially considering that i can start only 1 RB. As a matter of fact, my 22nd ranked WR os projected to score 1 more point than my 11th ranked RB. To not go 1/4 seems crazy to me. As far as supply and demand, if it is best to go 1 RB and 4 WR, then there clearly isnt enough WR's to meet the demand, and plenty of RB's.

Who says that is best to go 1/4? Not I, that is to be sure.

You still HAVE to start 1 RB and they are scarce...with pronounced drop-offs one does not want to be on the tail end of.

DD has WR10 Colston at 13.8 ppg in that scoring and Steven Jackson (RB6) at 14.4 ppg. So it may be you haven't given as much thought to the scoring and WRs do not have the advantage you think they do.

 

[TheFanatic]

How many teams and what is the number for the rest of the starters?

12 team, 1QB,1RB,2WR,1TE,2Flex,1K,1D

My thinking is 18-20 of the first 24 picks should be WR's, am i wrong?

Yes you are. I'm in Hyper Active 1. It's essentially a 12 team PPR that starts 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR TE, and THREE flex positions at RB, WR, and TE. WR's have a TON move value than non PPR's where you only start two of them. A couple years ago ADP was traded for Greg Jennings straight up. I scoffed at the trade but it was pointed out to me that ADP only outscored Jennings by like 8 the year before.

That being said, while WR's score a ton they also do it a lot more inconsistently than RB's. A WR can have 10 catches 1 week and 2 the next. Your top line RB's are going to get 15-20 carries every week barring injury.

My first year in HA I started 4 RB's almost every week and tied for first place in my division. Give me the safety and security of consistent points from RB's all day long over streaky WR's. That being said, a guy like Welker is gold in PPR's. Not a more consistent producer than he is. And he's going to come cheap this year...

I dont care about consistency so much. Im starting 4 WR's, so even though they are inconsistent as individuals, as a gruop, they should be pretty consistent week in and week out.

Two WR's get shut down in a week and you are done. That's a loss that can be the difference in making the playoffs. Only 7 WR's had more than 90 catches last year. A high scoring guy that only gets 60 catches is going to be streaky from week to week. I'm not saying that going 4RB and 1 WR is the way to go like I did one year in HA1. That's just the way it worked out for me that year as my WR's underachieved.

Another factor i think people are forgetting is injury. Any player can get injured, but it happens to RB's alot more than any other position. That is especially true for dynasty leagues. Assuming Ad outscored Jennings by 8 points each season, wouldnt Jennings be a better player to have in a dynasty league, considering he will likely play much longer?

Jennings had 80 catches for 1300 yards and 9 TD's two years ago and dropped to 68 catches, 1100 yards and 4 TD's. ADP went from 1900 total yards and 10 TD's to 1800 total yards and 18 TD's. Seems the ADP owner came out on the high end of that trade after 1 year. That could change this year if the kid from Stanford is used as a GL back. Very few WR's are elite for a long period of time. The injury thing may not be quite as prevalent with WR's but it's still there in a big way.

You seem to be basing a lot of assumptions on, "teams with 1 RB and 4 WR's win those leagues a lot." Do you have any statistical support for that claim? Or does the guy that said it above have any statistical support for that? I could just as easily say, "teams with 2 RB's and 3 WR's tend to win those leagues a lot." Both are assumptions that have no solid backing. Either may be accurate but you need to dig a little deeper before taking that at face value...

 

[Go deep]

Jennings had 80 catches for 1300 yards and 9 TD's two years ago and dropped to 68 catches, 1100 yards and 4 TD's. ADP went from 1900 total yards and 10 TD's to 1800 total yards and 18 TD's. Seems the ADP owner came out on the high end of that trade after 1 year. That could change this year if the kid from Stanford is used as a GL back. Very few WR's are elite for a long period of time. The injury thing may not be quite as prevalent with WR's but it's still there in a big way. You seem to be basing a lot of assumptions on, "teams with 1 RB and 4 WR's win those leagues a lot." Do you have any statistical support for that claim? Or does the guy that said it above have any statistical support for that? I could just as easily say, "teams with 2 RB's and 3 WR's tend to win those leagues a lot." Both are assumptions that have no solid backing. Either may be accurate but you need to dig a little deeper before taking that at face value...

I have no statistical data, nor do i have any experience with this type of league. Thats why i started this thread. Since elite WR's are rare, like you point out, wouldnt that make Andre Johnson even that much more valuable in a league like this?Also, im not sure your AD/Jennings example means much. Im not talking about taking Jennings over Peterson. Im talking about taking a player like Sidney Rice over Deangelo Williams, or Miles Austin over Rashard Mendenhall. Lets assume for a 2nd that you and i are drafting in a league like this. We are in the 4th round, and each have our 1 RB and 2 WR's(filling the starting requirements of those two positions). In the 4th round we both want to fill our 1st flex spot. Shouldnt either one of us take whiochever player we project to score more points, no matter what position? What would be the advantage in taking a RB over a WR if you project the WR to score 20 more points than the RB?

Very few WR's are elite for a long period of time. The injury thing may not be quite as prevalent with WR's but it's still there in a big way.

Point being is they are elite over a longer period of time than RB's and get injured far less.

 

[TheWick]

Why wouldnt i take Andre Johnson 1.1 if i project him to score more FF points than CJ.

You should but he won't.

Especially considering that i can start only 1 RB. As a matter of fact, my 22nd ranked WR os projected to score 1 more point than my 11th ranked RB. To not go 1/4 seems crazy to me. As far as supply and demand, if it is best to go 1 RB and 4 WR, then there clearly isnt enough WR's to meet the demand, and plenty of RB's.

Who says that is best to go 1/4? Not I, that is to be sure.

You still HAVE to start 1 RB and they are scarce...with pronounced drop-offs one does not want to be on the tail end of.

DD has WR10 Colston at 13.8 ppg in that scoring and Steven Jackson (RB6) at 14.4 ppg. So it may be you haven't given as much thought to the scoring and WRs do not have the advantage you think they do.

From my experience in the last 3 years of Phenoms Flex leagues (about 4-5 a year) the 1-4 lineups generally are the highest scoring. But with it being straight head to head with no victory points it could very well be too volitale to be the best scenario.What in your opinion makes the best lineup in this format?

 

[Go deep]

Two WR's get shut down in a week and you are done

Same can be said about RB's. Fact is if i could know that a WR would outscore a RB by 20 points by seasons end, i dont care how consistently he scores them. Especially if i am starting 4 WR's a week, odds are they are not all going to have their big games in the same week.

 

[TheFanatic]

Two WR's get shut down in a week and you are done

Same can be said about RB's. Fact is if i could know that a WR would outscore a RB by 20 points by seasons end, i dont care how consistently he scores them. Especially if i am starting 4 WR's a week, odds are they are not all going to have their big games in the same week.

Listen, I have experience in leagues like this as do some of the other folks posting in this thread that you started asking for advice. But it seems all you want to do is discount any advice that is contrary to the preconceived notions you came into this thread with. That's fine. Happens all the time. Good luck with your season. I've got no more advice for you. You already have it all figured out...

 

[ookook]

DD agrees with:

Sidney Rice (VBD by Joe's baseline = 63) over Deangelo Williams (VBD = 52, probably too low) but not Stephen Jackson (92).

and

Miles Austin (VBD = 78) over Rashard Mendenhall (63) and still not Jackson (92).

Using this, only about half of the first 20 picks are WRs.

Here is my bottom line: What helps is having flexibility in case of injury. RBs are harder to replace; it is much easier to fill a WR vacancy than a RB. So I will have 2 of my first 6 picks as RBs in that format and the other 4 WRs with preference for ONE of my first 2 picks a RB depending on where they fall.

 

[ookook]

What in your opinion makes the best lineup in this format?

Well, I tend to sluff QB and pick them very late.So as I said, I would take 2 RB and 4 WR in the first 6 rounds. I would attempt to have 1 RB taken in first two rounds.I still would start the best scorers/matchups but be insulated from any single injury devastating my season: either 2/3 or 1/4.And I guarantee that there will be 3+ QBs taken in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Go deep]

Two WR's get shut down in a week and you are done

Same can be said about RB's. Fact is if i could know that a WR would outscore a RB by 20 points by seasons end, i dont care how consistently he scores them. Especially if i am starting 4 WR's a week, odds are they are not all going to have their big games in the same week.

Listen, I have experience in leagues like this as do some of the other folks posting in this thread that you started asking for advice. But it seems all you want to do is discount any advice that is contrary to the preconceived notions you came into this thread with. That's fine. Happens all the time. Good luck with your season. I've got no more advice for you. You already have it all figured out...

Relax man, i appreciate the advice, and i dont have everything figured out. I was just looking for some reasons why people wouldnt stockpile WR's in a draft like this. From what i have heard so far, it still seems that is the case.

 

[TheWick]

Two WR's get shut down in a week and you are done

Same can be said about RB's. Fact is if i could know that a WR would outscore a RB by 20 points by seasons end, i dont care how consistently he scores them. Especially if i am starting 4 WR's a week, odds are they are not all going to have their big games in the same week.

Listen, I have experience in leagues like this as do some of the other folks posting in this thread that you started asking for advice. But it seems all you want to do is discount any advice that is contrary to the preconceived notions you came into this thread with. That's fine. Happens all the time. Good luck with your season. I've got no more advice for you. You already have it all figured out...

Relax man, i appreciate the advice, and i dont have everything figured out. I was just looking for some reasons why people wouldnt stockpile WR's in a draft like this. From what i have heard so far, it still seems that is the case.

As I've stated 1-4 is the way I prefer to go...but I still would not have passed on one of the top 4 RB in that draft. AP or MJD and 4 WRs would have been real nice.

 

[Go deep]

Two WR's get shut down in a week and you are done

Same can be said about RB's. Fact is if i could know that a WR would outscore a RB by 20 points by seasons end, i dont care how consistently he scores them. Especially if i am starting 4 WR's a week, odds are they are not all going to have their big games in the same week.

Listen, I have experience in leagues like this as do some of the other folks posting in this thread that you started asking for advice. But it seems all you want to do is discount any advice that is contrary to the preconceived notions you came into this thread with. That's fine. Happens all the time. Good luck with your season. I've got no more advice for you. You already have it all figured out...

Relax man, i appreciate the advice, and i dont have everything figured out. I was just looking for some reasons why people wouldnt stockpile WR's in a draft like this. From what i have heard so far, it still seems that is the case.

As I've stated 1-4 is the way I prefer to go...but I still would not have passed on one of the top 4 RB in that draft. AP or MJD and 4 WRs would have been real nice.

It wasnt easy, especially since i love MJD, but i couldnt help taking Andre Johnson over him at the 1.3 spot.

 

[ookook]

What happens when neither Best or Jones are viable starters? I have them ranked like 19th and 20th.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Well wanted to look at our starting lineups for the league since they are pretty damn different at the much argued about rb/wr positions. My initial draft plan was to take 3 wr's out of the first 4/5 but obviously that didn't happen. Just for reference I put DD projected points next to the players. I have been doing the phantom leagues for a couple years myself and my own opinion is that the 2-3 lineup is what works best but every league has its differences.

Link for those playing at home

Manning, Eli 259.1

Best, Jahvid 183.4

Jones, Felix 182.0

Jackson, DeSean 223.5

Johnson, Andre 292.2

Rice, Sidney 225.0

Miller, Zach 175.5

TBD

Jets, New York

Bench

Alex Smith

Stafford

Bush

Kevin Smith

Choice

Avery

Devin Thomas

Burleson

Scheffler

Romo, Tony 315.7

Addai, Joseph 187.8

Jackson, Steven 240.0

Moreno, Knowshon 200.7

Harvin, Percy 201.6

Moss, Randy 262.8

Winslow, Kellen 174.8

Kaeding, Nate

Ravens, Baltimore

Bench

McNabb

McGahee

Buckhalter

Ringer

Evans

Hester

Gaffney

DHB

Shockey

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

What happens when neither Best or Jones are viable starters? I have them ranked like 19th and 20th.

between best - jones - bush - I think he has a solid play every week

 

[Go deep]

What happens when neither Best or Jones are viable starters? I have them ranked like 19th and 20th.

I have them 10th and 15th, and actually only need one of them. Not to mention Reggie Bush. So if i can even get two top 24 RB's, i should be OK with my starting 3 WR's. My biggest question mark is Eli Manning. He is my #6 QB this season, i need him to put up at least top 10 numbers as well. Unless Alex Smith or Mathew Stafford do something im not expecting. I do like Smith's situation and schedule this year, and i might be able to spot start him if he plays as well as i think he can this year.

 

[Fighting Noles]

I think your basic strategy of the 1RB-4WR's can be very effective in this format (I won a league last year like this using the same strategy - although it did have Victory Points, rather than "just" H2H), BUT it seems like you backed off it a bit & ended up with the 2/3 as your likely starters. I would have much rather seen you take just one RB @ the 4/5 turn and then get a much stronger WR4 there (Harvin/Ward/Bowe/MSW, etc) then after you had QB & TE, you could've just pounded the heck out of lower tier RB's (Like RBush who you got, but also MBush, Hightower, CTaylor, Caddy,Slaton, MBIII, etc. since you only have to start one - would've loved to see you corner the whole Cowboy backfield for instance instead of 2/3). I saw your thread on taking the Jets 1st the other day, so we don't need to debate it again, BUT when using an aggressive strategy like you did - WR/WR/WR (from the 3 hole), I simply don't think you "needed" to take the 1st D in the 8th too (again would've rather seen a stronger WR4 early & a RB there). Also, no need to take both Stafford and ASmith as QB 2 & 3 (with no QB flex) so close together (11th & 12th), especially when Eli has been pretty darn durable (could have had RB there - Maroney/Hightower/CTaylor/Portis - Not "great" choices by any means but better than a 3rd QB there IMHO).....

I just don't think Avery, Burleson & DThomas are strong WR4's at all & therefore if you wanted to start the 1-4 lineup, you would have been better served taking MJD & then 4 straight WR's over the starting lineup you ended up having.

I think you thought it out & analyzed it properly, if you are comfortable taking on some "risk" at RB in a PPR - like I am & clearly you are too, but you just didn't quite follow through on implementing it.

Just my two cents Go Deep....Good Luck there this year!