Project Veritas - Rigging the Election videos (2 Viewers)

[LittlePhatty]

If it was so unlikely & impossible then why do people do it?  I don't think it's as impossible as it seems.  If you think about it, most of the country you already know which way they will vote.  You really just have to screw around in a small percentage of districts.

I don't know if they do or don't. Without Googling I'll bet there are cases where people have tried and gotten caught. If someone does try it they are idiots and deserve any penalty of law coming to them. I cannot logically imagine an entire bus full of fraudulent voters being dropped off at a polling station and successfully getting their ballots counted. I can imagine organizations providing rides to the polls for people who don't have transportation of their own. That has always happened and it is not illegal.

When you say "small percentage", in your opinion is there a threshold number at which an average, rational person would say "that gap is too large to possibly include fraud?" If (somehow) this turns out to be close in a Bush/Gore kind of way, then we will definitely have a circus. But if Trump loses by a wide margain, he and his core supporters will still be fanning the conspiracy theory flames despite all logical arguments presented to them.

 

[Sconch]

 at anybody buying anything O'Keefe is trying to sell.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

Ideological bigotry...the hatred of anyone who doesn't agree with your politics...turning into an epidemic...

You said it, my friend.

 

[Quez]

Not this year -- we're looking at a landslide in a few weeks. Why would anyone incur the risk of rigging anything this year? This election has been a done deal for months.

Someone will have to ask Scott Foval this.  A guy who once had aspirations to be Robert Creamer partner at Democracy Now, has destroyed his life.  There will not be any campaign willing to touch this guy with a 10ft pole.  Then again, maybe he will just become a "dark operative" and begin planning for 2018.

 

[massraider]

If they really want to rig elections, they need to do it on a state wide level. Dems are playing checkers, GOP playing 3-dimensional chess.

 

[Mr. Ected]

This is the best description of the 'Voter Fraud' over the last several elections...

But here’s the thing: Voter fraud is exceedingly rare.

Loyola Law School’s Justin Levitt did a deep dive into every credible allegation of voter fraud from 2000 to 2014. This includes general, primary, special, and municipal elections.

He told Vox’s German Lopez that he only found 35 cases, even though 834 million ballots were cast in national general elections, and hundreds of millions more in primary, special, and municipal elections, among others.

So what’s the mean in Skittles terms?

Since Trump’s son, Donald Jr., already provided a good metaphor for putting things into perspective — albeit incorrectly — we’re just going to borrow it.
 

Spoiler

This was a Skittles metaphor for the 'Syrian Refugee Problem.' - "If I had a bowl of Skittles and I told you three would kill you, would you take a handful?" implores the image. "That's our Syrian refugee problem."

It’s like Donald Trump bought a massive bag of Skittles with 834 million pieces in it, and he’s complaining that it’s not a legitimate bag of Skittles because there are so many M&Ms mixed in.

Except we only have evidence that there are 35 M&Ms in the Skittles bag.

 

[freakinback]

The guy resigning is troublesome. The fact that he met with Obama so many times (if true) is troublesome. The fact that this O'Keefe character is so compromised, and has a history of editing films to create false contexts, is troublesome. The video is troublesome. 

So what to believe? I have no idea. The one conclusion that I can't reach is "everything about this video is true, therefore Trump!" I can't fathom anybody reaching that conclusion, therefore in the larger scheme of things this whole discussion seems irrelevant. 

Good point about not changing your mind. The takeaway should be things need to change in our political process after this election. Reality is nothing will change. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think it is because whites have just now entered the age of identity politics on a national level.

True enough and that sucks.

 

[psychobillies]

Without reading the thread, let me guess.  

Republicans:  This is the worst thing that has ever happened, people need to go to jail, treason, etc.

Democrats:  Nothing to see here, fake, shoot the messenger.

What do I win?

 

[Jrodicus]

Yep. As soon as you use the word "rigged" you're associated with Trump and you've lost most rational thinkers. And of course that word is deliberately used to get views from Trump supporters who have shown themselves to love the stuff, so even if this was presented in an unbiased, unedited way it's going be treated as unreliable because Trump  and "rigged" have zero credibility. 

I guess I didn't realize Michael Moore switched sides...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSEOd1W3fZA

 

[Northern Voice]

I guess I didn't realize Michael Moore switched sides...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSEOd1W3fZA

Did you quote me by accident here? My post was about how Trump and "rigged" undermine the credibility of the video posted regardless of the content. As usual the response is "yeah but thus other person did this..." I guess?

 

[mquinnjr]

Without reading the thread, let me guess.  

Republicans:  This is the worst thing that has ever happened, people need to go to jail, treason, etc.

Democrats:  Nothing to see here, fake, shoot the messenger.

What do I win?

A basis in reality!

 

[Northern Voice]

Without reading the thread, let me guess.  

Republicans:  This is the worst thing that has ever happened, people need to go to jail, treason, etc.

Democrats:  Nothing to see here, fake, shoot the messenger.

What do I win?

Probably unfair to Republicans. Replace that with Trumpers and you nailed it. 

 

[Jrodicus]

Did you quote me by accident here? My post was about how Trump and "rigged" undermine the credibility of the video posted regardless of the content. As usual the response is "yeah but thus other person did this..." I guess?

My comment was more in regards to the tinfoil hat.  I think that conspiracy theorists abound on both ends of the spectrum.

(Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so accusational/confrontational in my initial reply.)

 

[Skoo]

Is there anything Trump says that you guys DON'T instantly believe?

Hillary has no need to rig the election, she's going to win in a landslide.

I guess this is what happens when you nominate the tin-foil hat candidate.

Tomorrows thread: Vaccines cause Autism!!

 

[RBM]

Almost wish this election could be postponed and find two new candidates due to Trump not being capable and Clintons filthy corruption.

Awesome idea. 

 

[RBM]

Don't know, don't care. I'm not the one in this thread who is relying on information provided to me by a criminal .

No you're just voting for one for President. 

 

[Quez]

Is there anything Trump says that you guys DON'T instantly believe?

Hillary has no need to rig the election, she's going to win in a landslide.

I guess someone forgot to mention this to Scott Foval & Robert Creamer.  Hell, even the illegal alien wasn't concerned with 2016, but was ready for 18!

 

[Gary Coal Man]

 Yep. As soon as you use the word "rigged" you're associated with Trump and you've lost most rational thinkers. And of course that word is deliberately used to get views from Trump supporters who have shown themselves to love the stuff, so even if this was presented in an unbiased, unedited way it's going be treated as unreliable because Trump  and "rigged" have zero credibility. 

Yep, only the most intellectually and morally bankrupt politicians accuse the system of being "rigged".  Anyone who considers those politicians or their "rigged" claims as having any merit whatsoever must necessarily be a tin-foil hat wearer. There is absolutely, positively not a scintilla of truth to any accusation that involves the word "rigged".

"Who thinks the system is rigged?" (YouTube)

 

[Skoo]

Awesome idea. 

Hey, you guys had your chance to nominate a serious candidate, but you went with Trump instead.

Too late too back out now that he has no chance.

 

[RBM]

Hey, you guys had your chance to nominate a serious candidate, but you went with Trump instead.

You guys blew it just as bad as we did. 

 

[jonessed]

It's the Republican's fault for putting up such a bad candidate, because this is truly despicable behavior - if it was executed upon as discussed in the video. We don't know that with 100% certainty, as that would require an investigation to prove out. Just like sexual abuse allegations against Trump by accusers as a result of the hot mic comments, neither he nor rally attackers in Chicago are guilty until proven so.

This whole election cycle has been a complete , just disappointing all around. 

Oh horse####.  Quit making excuses for these people.  This is big money politics.  Hillary and the DNC don't need an army of toadies running cover and making excuses.  They need to be called out on corruption when it rears its head.

 

[Skoo]

You guys blew it just as bad as we did. 

Let's see, we're getting two liberal supreme court justices, and the destruction of the GOP.

This is a pretty huge win for liberals, even if Hillary isn't the ideal candidate.

Thanks Trump! Couldn't have done it without ya!

 

[jonessed]

Good point about not changing your mind. The takeaway should be things need to change in our political process after this election. Reality is nothing will change. 

People like Tim are the reason politics will stay corrupt.  Voting for Hillary does not mean you have to be a sycophant for the DNC when corruption is pointed out.  Voting for Trump does not mean you have to defend his loud-mouthed rants.  Treating politics as a zero sum game is how we ended up in this mess.

 

[captain_amazing]

This is a pretty big deal.  It is the #1 trending video on YouTube.  They admit on camera "Bird doing", and causing violence at rallies that injured 2 cops in Chicago.  The bussing in of voters is another major scandal.  Let's see if the FBI chooses to look into these things.

Haha it's "bird dogging."  Which is not a bad thing.

 

[Sconch]

People like Tim are the reason politics will stay corrupt.  Voting for Hillary does not mean you have to be a sycophant for the DNC when corruption is pointed out.  Voting for Trump does not mean you have to defend his loud-mouthed rants.  Treating politics as a zero sum game is how we ended up in this mess.

Voting for Trump means you have absolutely no idea how the American government works or what the presidency is all about.  

Again, this isn't the race for Student Body President of Junior Samples Memorial Middle School.

 

[Quez]

Haha it's "bird dogging."  Which is not a bad thing.

Sorry auto-correct.  It's a dirty, rotten thing to do, and the people behind it are scumbags.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

God why couldn't Bernie have won the nomination.

The problem with all of this though is that in a broad sense it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already believe.  That is, it basically tells us that Hillary and her campaign are corrupt, which is an assumption most people were already operating under anyway.  And that corruption sucks and is a huge deal.  The problem is that the alternative is Trump, who's every bit as corrupt and has about a billion other major faults and dealbreakers on top of that.

With the GOP still a few centuries behind on social issues I tend to end up voting democrat more often than not, but I don't have any loyalty to the party itself.  I probably won't vote for someone that thinks gay marriage or abortion should be illegal, but if the GOP had put up their typical normal sane person with beliefs I happen to disagree with this year I would have either stayed home or voted 3rd party instead of Hillary.  If they put up a normal candidate who happened to be a little more open to joining the 21st century on social issues they would have had my vote.  But Trump?  It just can't happen, and I'll be gritting my teeth and voting for Hillary, yet another corrupt politician who is probably even more corrupt than average.  And once again I can lament the South that I grew up in for giving us this awful candidate instead of the guy who actually gave a damn about people instead of power.

 

[Skoo]

This thread is the reason that Trump saying all this crazy stuff about the election being rigged is really dangerous, sadly he doesn't care because he's just looking towards his next paycheck.

But contrary to what Trump would have you believe, this is still a great country and we are still the leaders of the world. Our elections have always been the gold standard worldwide. Every 4 or 8 years we have a completely peaceful transfer of power. Maybe we are spoiled living here and take that for granted, but it's no small thing.

This is why Trump is unfit for office. He doesn't realize how much influence the words that someone in his position have.

 

[jonessed]

This thread is the reason that Trump saying all this crazy stuff about the election being rigged is really dangerous, sadly he doesn't care because he's just looking towards his next paycheck.

But contrary to what Trump would have you believe, this is still a great country and we are still the leaders of the world. Our elections have always been the gold standard worldwide. Every 4 or 8 years we have a completely peaceful transfer of power. Maybe we are spoiled living here and take that for granted, but it's no small thing.

This is why Trump is unfit for office. He doesn't realize how much influence the words that someone in his position have.

And some of us would like to keep it that way by calling out corruption when we see it.

 

[Northern Voice]

Yep, only the most intellectually and morally bankrupt politicians accuse the system of being "rigged".  Anyone who considers those politicians or their "rigged" claims as having any merit whatsoever must necessarily be a tin-foil hat wearer. There is absolutely, positively not a scintilla of truth to any accusation that involves the word "rigged".

"Who thinks the system is rigged?" (YouTube)

There's something poetic about a selectively edited video (in which the word election isn't spoken) to defend a selectively edited video.

 

[wikkidpissah]

I do not believe these videos were born in the United States and they lie to our nation about sex and probably caused Bengazi

 

[Boston]

This thread is the reason that Trump saying all this crazy stuff about the election being rigged is really dangerous, sadly he doesn't care because he's just looking towards his next paycheck.

But contrary to what Trump would have you believe, this is still a great country and we are still the leaders of the world. Our elections have always been the gold standard worldwide. Every 4 or 8 years we have a completely peaceful transfer of power. Maybe we are spoiled living here and take that for granted, but it's no small thing.

This is why Trump is unfit for office. He doesn't realize how much influence the words that someone in his position have.

Yes...calling those who don't vote for you a "basket of deplorables" are the words that reek of leadership...

 

[Northern Voice]

I do not believe these videos were born in the United States and they lie to our nation about sex and probably caused Bengazi

Proof.

 

[Quez]

This thread is the reason that Trump saying all this crazy stuff about the election being rigged is really dangerous, sadly he doesn't care because he's just looking towards his next paycheck.

But contrary to what Trump would have you believe, this is still a great country and we are still the leaders of the world. Our elections have always been the gold standard worldwide. Every 4 or 8 years we have a completely peaceful transfer of power. Maybe we are spoiled living here and take that for granted, but it's no small thing.

This is why Trump is unfit for office. He doesn't realize how much influence the words that someone in his position have.

Translation: The U.S.is still much better than Guatemala, so it's ok to accept blatant corruption.  It's normal!

 

[Skoo]

And some of us would like to keep it that way by calling out corruption when we see it.

So you don't yet realize Trump is just making stuff up so he doesn't look like a giant loser?

For the last few weeks every word out of his mouth has been excuses for why his campaign is going down in flames.

Don't let Trump keep playing you.

 

[Skoo]

Translation: The U.S.is still much better than Guatemala, so it's ok to accept blatant corruption.  It's normal!

Reading comprehension.

There's a reason us liberals keep pushing for education funding.

It's important.

 

[jonessed]

So you don't yet realize Trump is just making stuff up so he doesn't look like a giant loser?

For the last few weeks every word out of his mouth has been excuses for why his campaign is going down in flames.

Don't let Trump keep playing you.

I couldn't care less about Trump.  I think he's a jackass.  What's in that first video however is real.  These aren't the snippets by low level Planned Parenthood managers.  Creamer is a big hitter with close interactions with the White House, the DNC, and Hillary.  He and his group are explicit and detailed about what they did and are doing.

 

[Slapdash]

The guy resigning is troublesome. The fact that he met with Obama so many times (if true) is troublesome. The fact that this O'Keefe character is so compromised, and has a history of editing films to create false contexts, is troublesome. The video is troublesome. 

So what to believe? I have no idea. The one conclusion that I can't reach is "everything about this video is true, therefore Trump!" I can't fathom anybody reaching that conclusion, therefore in the larger scheme of things this whole discussion seems irrelevant. 

Don't worry.   CNN or a NY Times Op-Ed will be along to tell you what you believe shortly

 

[mr roboto]

If you think there's something misleading or incorrect in one of my posts, feel free to point it out and I will be happy to respond.

And no, I'm not embarrassed by any of my political beliefs.  Are you embarrassed by your apparent tendency to interject yourself mid-conversation between two posters to launch ad hominem attacks?

Yeah I don't think you know what ad hominem means. But you are doing a great job of deflecting what's in that video by attacking the credibility of the source. Which is actually an ad hominem attack. 

I don't question your credibility as a human being. I question your ability to separate your deeply held narrative from actual facts. 

 

[Slapdash]

Yeah I don't think you know what ad hominem means. But you are doing a great job of deflecting what's in that video by attacking the credibility of the source. Which is actually an ad hominem attack. 

I don't question your credibility as a human being. I question your ability to separate your deeply held narrative from actual facts. 

To be honest though, O'Keefe doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here.  We've been down this road before with his videos...

 

[mr roboto]

To be honest though, O'Keefe doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here.  We've been down this road before with his videos...

Fair enough but unless it all comes out as a parody or a completely fabricated stunt those long-format quotes are hard to get around. 

 

[timschochet]

Don't worry.   CNN or a NY Times Op-Ed will be along to tell you what you believe shortly

Let's hope so.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

  There's something poetic about a selectively edited video (in which the word election isn't spoken) to defend a selectively edited video.

Your original post is immediately below, pal.  You most certainly didn't limit your criticism of politicians' "rigged" accusations to elections alone:

"Yep. As soon as you use the word "rigged" you're associated with Trump and you've lost most rational thinkers. And of course that word is deliberately used to get views from Trump supporters who have shown themselves to love the stuff, so even if this was presented in an unbiased, unedited way it's going be treated as unreliable because Trump  and "rigged" have zero credibility."

Once again, we have the "selectively edited" accusation.  

So is your contention that Floval didn't actually say his words and mean them to apply to American elections?  

Is it your contention that the Democrat politicians in the video your criticizing didn't actually use the word "rigged" and intend it to mean various aspects of the American political and economic system?

And what makes the "rigged" accusations in that video have merit, but Trump's accusations have absolutely no merit.

I'll hang up and await your answer.

 

[Sconch]

To be honest though, O'Keefe doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here.  We've been down this road before with his videos...

Exactly.

I wonder how many people giving credence to this clown's work are still expecting that a real Nigerian prince wants to make them rich?

 

[Northern Voice]

Your original post is immediately below, pal.  You most certainly didn't limit your criticism of politicians' "rigged" accusations to elections alone:

"Yep. As soon as you use the word "rigged" you're associated with Trump and you've lost most rational thinkers. And of course that word is deliberately used to get views from Trump supporters who have shown themselves to love the stuff, so even if this was presented in an unbiased, unedited way it's going be treated as unreliable because Trump  and "rigged" have zero credibility."

Once again, we have the "selectively edited" accusation.  

So is your contention that Floval didn't actually say his words and mean them to apply to American elections?  

Is it your contention that the Democrat politicians in the video your criticizing didn't actually use the word "rigged" and intend it to mean various aspects of the American political and economic system?

And what makes the "rigged" accusations in that video have merit, but Trump's accusations have absolutely no merit.

I'll hang up and await your answer.

The context matters. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yeah I don't think you know what ad hominem means. But you are doing a great job of deflecting what's in that video by attacking the credibility of the source. Which is actually an ad hominem attack. 

I don't question your credibility as a human being. I question your ability to separate your deeply held narrative from actual facts. 

I know what it means. You characterized me as "shockingly partisan" and you made it clear that you weren't referring to just one post, thread or issue by wondering it I was ever embarrassed about it. This in response to me saying that I didn't know or care about the frequency of Creamer's visits to the White House or meetings with Obama (which, without more information about those visits/meetings, I don't) and asking another poster to respond to a question I had previously posed.  Your attack was aimed at me generally, not the substance of the post to which it responded. That is an ad hominem attack.

I had pointed out that O'Keefe is a convicted criminal because the poster with whom I was conversing had said "it is amazing how many will put up with corruption & illegal activities if they support their team" and then later cited Creamer's criminal record as de facto evidence of his shadiness. I was pointing out the amusing irony in this context. No ad hominem attack there.

I also pointed out that O'Keefe had previously edited his videos in a way intended to mislead people, and made the point that we had not seen the unedited video in this case. The idea is that because of his previous conduct in similar situations it is fair to wonder how the tone and content of the video may have been changed by his editing, and whether there is exculpatory content that was cut and is not being provided by the people who made the edited video. So again, not an ad hominem attack. It's not about his credibility generally, it's about whether the video is credible given what he's done in past videos and the fact that he apparently has refused to release the raw footage.

 

[Slapdash]

Fair enough but unless it all comes out as a parody or a completely fabricated stunt those long-format quotes are hard to get around. 

Yeah.  Have only checked out a few minutes so far, will watch in its entirety next time I actually have reliable wifi

 

[Sconch]

Quick question...and I'm not trying to deflect here...but for those of you who are buying into these vids (along with PV and O'Keefe) how hard do you think it would be to create something very, very similar with the GOP side?

 

[Jrodicus]

Quick question...and I'm not trying to deflect here...but for those of you who are buying into these vids (along with PV and O'Keefe) how hard do you think it would be to create something very, very similar with the GOP side?

I think that the GOP is too fractured and incompetent to pull off things like this.