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QB Vick Knew About Dog Fighting Ring? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Pickle Rody
- Start date
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
"I am SHOCKED to find out that there is gambling going on here..."
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Not that I condone any felony, but this borders on ridiculous to me.
Guys who drive drunk and endanger dozens of potential lives get off with a fine or perhaps community service, rarely jail time or suspension from the NFL.
Why should this activity which endangers no human beings warrant the proposed penalties? Hint, its because it takes away potential lottery earnings!
I also don't know why folks seem so surprised. Every football player on a college campus knows they are beyond the "rules", and we as a society condone it.
Guys who drive drunk and endanger dozens of potential lives get off with a fine or perhaps community service, rarely jail time or suspension from the NFL.
Why should this activity which endangers no human beings warrant the proposed penalties? Hint, its because it takes away potential lottery earnings!
I also don't know why folks seem so surprised. Every football player on a college campus knows they are beyond the "rules", and we as a society condone it.
packersfan
Footballguy
Vick sure seems like a total scumbag. If he's not leaving girls with a little after-party present, he's smuggling dope onto airplanes or watching dogs butcher each other.
Quite a guy.
Quite a guy.
redman
Footballguy
I'm having trouble reconciling a blindness to animal cruelty with a guy who has your avatar. Help me out here.
redman
Footballguy
"Your winnings sir-""Yes, thank you."
fatness
Footballguy
The police lab said there were no drugs. You know different?
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Hi redman,For me there is a big difference between compassion for the creatures of the wild who face possible extinction because we mistreat them or their environment, and those creatures specifically bred for other uses.Just so it is clear, I do not condone this activity. I just don't see it requiring the proposed penalty as compared to other activities which put us all at risk and carry a far lesser penalty.
BigRed
Footballguy
Animal abuse it OK as long as it's not being done to bears, dummy. I'm all like, duh!
redman
Footballguy
Just to be clear too, then, I think the other penalties should be increased. I also believe that community service for drunk driving - the example you mentioned - tends to be too light. Where I'm coming from on this is just a personal disdain for men who harm women, children or animals (and no, I don't equate animals with the others). Not that I thought he was Man of the Year before, but I've lost all personal respect for Michael Vick, so much so that I doubt I could stand to even have him on any of my fantasy rosters.
BigRed
Footballguy
Your replies make it clear that to a degree at least, actually yeah, you do.Sorry "I don't condone this but he should just get a slap on the wrist" doesn't exactly jibe. And this isn't aimed to you specifically, but I'm way beyond sick as hell of apologists. Hell the article was loaded with it, from Blank to the "source" etc etc. lol @ "he isn't a bad guy he just hangs about bad people" etc etc blah. What a joke.
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Guinis72
Footballguy
Vick should be placed in the Octagon so he can see how he likes having the crap beat out of him for other's entertainment.
Just because the dogs were bred for human intent of them fighting, doesn't make the dogs any less important that someone's pet. These breeders MAKE the dogs mean by feeding them gunpowder to make them crazy and abuse them to make them mean. ANY FORM OF LIFE that is bred or raised like this is the victim and the ones doing it should be severly punished IMO.
Just because the dogs were bred for human intent of them fighting, doesn't make the dogs any less important that someone's pet. These breeders MAKE the dogs mean by feeding them gunpowder to make them crazy and abuse them to make them mean. ANY FORM OF LIFE that is bred or raised like this is the victim and the ones doing it should be severly punished IMO.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
mtffl2
Footballguy
saintfool
Dead sexy
broadly speaking, i think he's a bit of a ########. i was willing to give him a break early on but, as he's gotten older, he hasn't matured. $130m contract and $0.25 mindset...
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I totally agree
Dolfan
Footballguy
Big difference between "endangering" and injecting drugs to cause rage, breeding to fight and taking pleasure in the death...Yes, People > Dogs, but if someone actually did this to people they would get the death penalty.... No one is calling for that here...ETA: I won't even go into the fact that many people who are technically over the leagal limit of alcohol are perfectly capable of driving a car.Also, it's not proven, but I strongly believe that cruelty to animals is a trait of many murderers (of people)...
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Guinis72
Footballguy
What sort of things have you seen or heard about what they’ve done to get dogs to fight?I’ve seen it all—feeding the dogs gunpowder mixed with, like, cayenne pepper and just treating them really cruel for a long time so the dogs are vicious so that all the dog wants to do is fight. And they bring the dogs together and let them loose on each other just like the cockfights—I’ve seen a lot of those, too. ? Where I lived was like a funeral home ...Here's one quote I found online from a rapper talking about his life in Brooklyn. There were several others I found as well, and of course there's a site or 2 saying this is BS. I've never been around a dog fight or breeders like that, so I can't say for sure, but it sounds pretty realistic to me.is this true? do they really feed them gunpowder? that's f'ed up... if true.
I am by no means any type of legal expert, but here are what I would envision are the possible outcomes of this situation.
1. There is no question Vick knew what was going on out there, if not directly participating, and his cred and image will no doubt take a hit.
2. If all that was found were the animals, which displayed signs of abuse or participating in dog fighting, and "items" related to breeding dogs for fighting, I think Vick gets away with a slap on the wrist or no penalty at all, depending on the proof of his involvement. This may be a heinous animal cruelty case, but that would be about it.
3. If it is proved that the dog-fighting was either being hosted at Vick's house, or Vick is directly tied to the hosting of dog-fighting at another establishment, he's in some real legal trouble. This, I believe, would open up the door for him to be charged/prosecuted with running a gambling ring, a much more legally severe crime. Having/breeding fighting dogs <<<<<<<<< criminally severe than running a dog fighting/gambling operation. I really don't think there would much of a leap to make a case for gambling if the dog-fighting operation can be linked to Vick.
If it's scenario 2, Vick might get a game or two from the league for embarrassing behavior. If it's scenario 3, Vick probably gets somewhere between four games and a season.
1. There is no question Vick knew what was going on out there, if not directly participating, and his cred and image will no doubt take a hit.
2. If all that was found were the animals, which displayed signs of abuse or participating in dog fighting, and "items" related to breeding dogs for fighting, I think Vick gets away with a slap on the wrist or no penalty at all, depending on the proof of his involvement. This may be a heinous animal cruelty case, but that would be about it.
3. If it is proved that the dog-fighting was either being hosted at Vick's house, or Vick is directly tied to the hosting of dog-fighting at another establishment, he's in some real legal trouble. This, I believe, would open up the door for him to be charged/prosecuted with running a gambling ring, a much more legally severe crime. Having/breeding fighting dogs <<<<<<<<< criminally severe than running a dog fighting/gambling operation. I really don't think there would much of a leap to make a case for gambling if the dog-fighting operation can be linked to Vick.
If it's scenario 2, Vick might get a game or two from the league for embarrassing behavior. If it's scenario 3, Vick probably gets somewhere between four games and a season.
BigRed
Footballguy
BigRed
Footballguy
...which is kinda like one of us getting a $20 fine. And I agree it will probably happen this way. Wow Goodall you tough guy.
redman
Footballguy
An unpaid, four game suspension is going to be worth $1.5M in lost salary to Vick; an entire lost season is $6M. That doesn't count any pro rata share of bonus that would be unpaid too. I realize he's got plenty of money, but that's still worth far more than $20 to you or me.As for Goodell, he's limited by the CBA and the union as to what he can do. I give him credit for this though. The guy I wish he'd been in a position to punish when he committed his offenses was Leonard Little, especially for the 2nd DUI after he'd already killed that woman in the prior DUI incident.
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marshall88
Footballguy
I'm sure the part about abusing the animals is true. As for gunpowder, feeding gunpowder to dogs does not make them crazy, mean or agressive -- it's an urban myth. But that doesn't stop somebody from doing it.As for dog fighting, I am disgusted by everyone invovled in that business -- including the owners, the gamblers and the spectators.We don't yet know the full extent of Vick's involvement, but as far as I'm concerned, the fact that this was all taking place on Vick's property is sufficient grounds for an NFL suspension. The argument that it was happening on his property without his knowledge is not convincing. He needs to take personal responsibility for what goes on at his property -- whether its dog fighting, drug smuggling, environmental contamination, etc. I hope he's suspended for a minimum of 8 games.is this true? do they really feed them gunpowder? that's f'ed up... if true.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Things just keep looking worse and worse for Vick. The Falcons may REALLY be regretting trading Schaub away if these allegations pan out.
BigRed
Footballguy
Obviously. Didn't mean it in terms of strict percentages. The point is he has tons of $ and will have tons regardless of any fine/suspension. I don't see how he would really feel the pinch all that much, the net effect still being basically a wrist slap. Jail time, now we're talking something that would make him sit up and take notice - likewise for the other dirtbag players. After all, that's what'd likely happen to a "regular guy" busted for this.
Good points and fair enough.
Warpig
Footballguy
:whoosh: Correct. Many psychiatrists and psychologists would agree. It's a progressive behavior.
Also, ofcourse Vick knew about what was going on. This dog-breeding/fighting is a big part of this hip-hop culture. And I'm sure Vick was only "representin'" for his homies...you know..."keepin' it real, yo'"
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I would pay to watch that.
packersfan
Footballguy
If all this is true here's hoping Vick is able to keep it real sitting on a couch somewhere watching Falcons games with his homies.Correct. Many psychiatrists and psychologists would agree. It's a progressive behavior.
Also, ofcourse Vick knew about what was going on. This dog-breeding/fighting is a big part of this hip-hop culture. And I'm sure Vick was only "representin'" for his homies...you know..."keepin' it real, yo'"
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
BigRed,
I feel you have mis-interpreted part of my initial thesis.
I did not intend to portray that Vick should get a slap on the wrist. On the contrary, he should get the penalty mandated for the crime if he committed it. The same as you or me under the law.
My comment was more towards an other point. Actions which endanger human life should carry a penalty which indicates that we actually value human life, and I for one believe that we should value human life higher than animal life. Therefore the penalty should also be indicative of the nature of endangerment.
Steve McNair got charged for drunk driving in 2003. The charges were somehow mysteriously dropped by the judge a year later. He was not fined or suspended by the NFL at the time. He was recently [today] arrested again for the same charge. Do you think he has a drinking problem? Duh ...
Jimmy Smith got convicted of driving under the influence of cocaine. He paid a fine, did community service and served a 4 game suspension if memory serves me.
Jamal Lewis got convicted of conspiring to sell cocaine. He did jail time, community service and got a two game suspension.
Randy Moss purposely ran into a policewoman; while in possession of marijuana. He paid a small fine and did some community service. No fine or suspension from the NFL. In fact the NFL fined him more money for squirting an official!
Ray Lewis was involved in the murder of two human beings. He plea bargained his way out of it; the two other defendants were inexplicably acquitted. For some strange reason, Lewis gave the child of one of those murdered $1 Million dollars. No NFL suspension or fine.
These examples are only intended to show the lack of consistency and extent of accountability now imparted by our lovely justice system and the NFL, as applied to these athletes.
Driving while drunk or impaired is a act which can endanger many innocent people. Hosting dog fights does not endanger any innocent people [i'm not at all condoning dog fights]. Do we really believe that a drunk driver should get a slap on the wrist, a man shown to be involved with murder gets a slap on the wrist, and a man who may have hosted dog fights should go to prison?
I feel you have mis-interpreted part of my initial thesis.
I did not intend to portray that Vick should get a slap on the wrist. On the contrary, he should get the penalty mandated for the crime if he committed it. The same as you or me under the law.
My comment was more towards an other point. Actions which endanger human life should carry a penalty which indicates that we actually value human life, and I for one believe that we should value human life higher than animal life. Therefore the penalty should also be indicative of the nature of endangerment.
Steve McNair got charged for drunk driving in 2003. The charges were somehow mysteriously dropped by the judge a year later. He was not fined or suspended by the NFL at the time. He was recently [today] arrested again for the same charge. Do you think he has a drinking problem? Duh ...
Jimmy Smith got convicted of driving under the influence of cocaine. He paid a fine, did community service and served a 4 game suspension if memory serves me.
Jamal Lewis got convicted of conspiring to sell cocaine. He did jail time, community service and got a two game suspension.
Randy Moss purposely ran into a policewoman; while in possession of marijuana. He paid a small fine and did some community service. No fine or suspension from the NFL. In fact the NFL fined him more money for squirting an official!
Ray Lewis was involved in the murder of two human beings. He plea bargained his way out of it; the two other defendants were inexplicably acquitted. For some strange reason, Lewis gave the child of one of those murdered $1 Million dollars. No NFL suspension or fine.
These examples are only intended to show the lack of consistency and extent of accountability now imparted by our lovely justice system and the NFL, as applied to these athletes.
Driving while drunk or impaired is a act which can endanger many innocent people. Hosting dog fights does not endanger any innocent people [i'm not at all condoning dog fights]. Do we really believe that a drunk driver should get a slap on the wrist, a man shown to be involved with murder gets a slap on the wrist, and a man who may have hosted dog fights should go to prison?
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
So no new evidence at all. "Unnamed" sources are what reporters fall back on when they can't get any real evidence and want to make up a story.
No need for a new thread on this, but when FF people get a chance to bash a guy they love to hate things like this happen.
No one knows what Vick did or didn't do at this point, yet some on here are calling for the death penalty and want him thrown in a ring and attacked by dogs. Pretty sick if you ask me. Thank god we have a judicial system or most of you would probably love to participate in stoning him to death regardless of the evidence, or lack there of in this case.
Pretty sickening thread if you ask me, some people are going to feel pretty embarrassed if Vick isn't found guilty of anything.
No need for a new thread on this, but when FF people get a chance to bash a guy they love to hate things like this happen.
No one knows what Vick did or didn't do at this point, yet some on here are calling for the death penalty and want him thrown in a ring and attacked by dogs. Pretty sick if you ask me. Thank god we have a judicial system or most of you would probably love to participate in stoning him to death regardless of the evidence, or lack there of in this case.
Pretty sickening thread if you ask me, some people are going to feel pretty embarrassed if Vick isn't found guilty of anything.
Ditka is God
Footballguy
Somebody, somewhere, has to have a picture or video of Vick at one of these fights. Barring that, I wouldn't be surprised if he manages to dodge this as well.
Kleck.
Footballguy
Same here. I'd place a wager on it too.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
If he was at one of these fights there will 100% be evidence like this. Dog fights are almost always recorded for people to watch later and you know if Vick was there someone taped him.The lynch mob should be waiting for actual evidence before calling for his head, I thought we've evolved as a species, but i'm starting to question that after reading some of these things being said.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Yeah people in that culture will be so excited to come forward with a video saying .. "hey look at this video of Mikey Vick that I just happend to find on some cell phone that was laying on the ground. of course I wasn't there, dog fighting is illegal ! "Seems pretty obvious that there was a dog fighting ring going on at a home he owns, thats enough evidence for me. Please see the thread on Steve McNair and someone driving his pick up truck while drunk.
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zadok
Footballguy
They were directly quoted. They were unnamed because they asked to be.
joffer
Footballguy
As I posted before, with all the evidence from all these sources, from the guy who says he saw him at the Kwik-E Mart down the street from the house to the mind-reading unnamed sources who are sure he must have known, they should have no problem indicting him. Until that happens, I think I'll wait before lumping him in with Stalin and Ted Bundy. If it does, I'll get my torch and join you all as we march to the courthouse demanding a public stoning.
packersfan
Footballguy
Don Banks is also one of the most respected NFL writers in the business. He's not someone to make up s**t just to get a headline.
burd
Footballguy
ofcourse he knew what was going on in one of his houses ... thinking otherwise is just foolish. These guys that cling to him know that he's their meal ticket and won't jeopardize their meal ticket w/o getting his approval for something that is illegal. He himself admitted to have an interest in dog breeding (coincidence?). Vick knows that since he's not directly involved (i.e. personally training the dogs), he can't be punished, especially since anyone of the losers in his company is willing to take the fall in order to keep the gravy train going. Make no mistake, Vick is laughing at all of us right now because he's getting away with doing whatever he wants.
Now the Falcons are stuck with him because not only will his trade value fall a little, they have no one that can step in because those geniuses traded away Schaub.
Now the Falcons are stuck with him because not only will his trade value fall a little, they have no one that can step in because those geniuses traded away Schaub.
BigRed
Footballguy
Thx for the clarification and pardon the misinterpretation. Don't even get me started on the wide variety of other losers, dirtbags and assorted sub-human POSs in the NFL (or other pro sports). w/o getting into each one above specifically, basically I would say 2 wrongs don't make a right and however they were treated (under a diff. commish's rule to boot) should have little if any impact on Vick's punishment if found guilty. If Vick knew about this and allowed it, never mind helping make it happen or participating, yeah, that "hip hop" POS should be in jail. thas what I'm talkin' bout.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Thank god your not the one making our laws. No evidence is good enough for you to convict a man, that is just plain scary.As far as i know landlords aren't responsible for their tenants crimes.
If he gets convicted i'm all for him getting the harshest punishment our laws allow, which unfortunately for most of you doesn't include throwing him in an octogon to be torn to shreds.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
I think it's foolish for people to think landlords know everything that goes on in their properties.Maybe Donald Trump should be charged with all the crimes that have been commited by people living on his properties.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
LOL gotta love guys like this.As soon as Mr. Vick shows that he is leasing his house to his cousin your argument may hold a bit of water. Oh and by the way, Mr. Trump is a corporation, best take up some corporate law classes so that you can understand why that and your other posting is so foolish.
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burd
Footballguy
Wow, these "tenants" have some stones keeping 60+ dogs w/o the "landlords" knowledge. ... please!
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, because this was just an investment property with some random guy renting from him.
It was a property that Vick owned and one that HE built on. It was also his nephew staying at the house, not some annonymous renter. At the VERY least he had the buildings built that the dogs were kept in. So we know that he was aware that dogs were being kept at the property at the very least. The FBI is reportedly involved and I would imagine that's why not much else has come out yet. When it does, I fully expect to hear that dog fighting was definitely going on and that Vick probably knew about it. I also fully expect his "boys" to take the fall for him and Vick to get off relatively clean. The biggest problem for Vick could be any statements that he has already made saying that he never went to the property and didn't know what was going on. I don't think it would be too difficult to prove otherwise if he was indeed involved.
BigRed
Footballguy
er FYI I think most of those calling for his head do so under the assumption that there is "real" evidence of his participation or at least knowledge of it.
You're right, that is a damn shame. Speaking of people laughing, anyone think the Charger organization is feeling pretty good right now? They only settled for LT instead of this putz.
BigRed
Footballguy
duh. But it won't be provable in a court of law and he'll get off scot-free and go back to making millions for being a 50% passer. GB America. :flag:
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Michael Vick is a stupid, stupid man. None of this should be surprising to anybody.
