Question about Tebow's delivery/mechanics (1 Viewer)

[shader]

I know there are a million Tebow threads, but I want to discuss one specific thing regarding Tebow and that is his delivery and accuracy.

Much was made when he was going through the draft process, of him learning a new way to throw the ball. We saw clips of him overhauling his mechanics, working with coaches and trying to quicken that delivery.

At this point, his accuracy is not very good. But it hasn't always been this way. At Florida he never had these kinds of problems.

I know it's college vs the NFL, but when a receiver breaks open down field and you throw a bomb, or when a receiver is open on a slant and you throw it to him, it's still the exact same throw. It's not a question of him reading defenses or making the wrong decision, because he's not throwing picks.

In college he was hitting those throws. In the NFL he isn't. So what is the problem?

1. Have too many coaches messed with his delivery and now he is like a golfer who just doesn't know how to swing a club anymore, he's so confused?

2. Are his receivers the problem? They are all young.

3. Is it in his head and the big stage is making him make rush things?

4. Or finally is the fact that they rarely throw the ball and then that they played the Jets this week (who Flacco went 10-31 against earlier in the year) the reason for the poor passing stats? If this is the case Tebow should improve those numbers in future weeks.

I just don't get it. I mean, Tebow is never going to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but I would never have expected things to get THIS bad.

Heck, even at the end of last year, he was 16 for 29 with 300 yards in one of his games. Not an unbelievable percentage, but certainly better than what he's showing in recent weeks.

We are talking about an incredibly dangerous player if he can get more accurate. If I were Fox and Elway, my only focus would be to get Tim back to a 50-55 percent passer, and that should be enough for him to be really good.

 

[GregR]

...In college he was hitting those throws. In the NFL he isn't. So what is the problem?...

NFL defenders are better and they are faster. In the NFL, the window the QB is throwing into is smaller both in space and in time. What the NFL considers an open receiver would often be considered a well-covered receiver in college.In college defenders aren't on the receivers as close. The throw can be further off from perfect but the receiver still have room to adjust without the defender being able to make a play. The same inaccurate throw in the NFL the defender is going to get his hands on, or on the receiver because he's tighter on the receiver and can close faster.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

NFL defenders are better and they are faster. In the NFL, the window the QB is throwing into is smaller both in space and in time. What the NFL considers an open receiver would often be considered a well-covered receiver in college.

In college defenders aren't on the receivers as close. The throw can be further off from perfect but the receiver still have room to adjust without the defender being able to make a play. The same inaccurate throw in the NFL the defender is going to get his hands on, or on the receiver because he's tighter on the receiver and can close faster.

Not to pick on you here, but I'm so sick and tired of this excuse. This has nothing to do with what's being discussed here. Let's forget about the defenders for a second and only talk about plays where the receiver is wide open with no one within 5 yards of him.Tebow has missed on plenty of passes this year where guys were completely uncovered, and missed very very badly. That never happened to him in college, and really never happened to him last year either. We're at the point where you could go out and have a game of back yard catch with Tebow and he may throw the ball 14 yards over your head for no apparent reason. That is not in any way similar to his history, he was never like that before.

 

[karmarooster]

Point taken OP and I don't really understand it either. He seems not only worse as a passer than he was in college, but clearly worse as a passer than even last year. Sure he's never been great at it, but over the last few games, about 30% the passes that leave his hand are not even really catchable.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Personally, I think that his throwing motion has just been tinkered with far too much. It seems evident that later in games when Magic Tebow Time takes over he's reverting back to his longer windup and starts magically starts making all the throws that he'd been missing all game long.

The really sad part is that I don't believe all the tinkering is even necessary as I believe this whole throwing motion debacle is just one egregious mix of NFL group think and chest puffing. I've written novels on it in the past so I'll just copy/paste one of them here..

Tebow was never anywhere near this inaccurate throwing the ball in the past. Are we really so naive to think that Tebow set the NCAA passing efficiency record for Heisman winners while not being able to get a 5 yard crossing route within 3 yards of a wide open receiver (hint, it wasn't a bunch of screens, Florida's defense was awful that year so they threw downfield a TON)? Are we really so naive as to believe that he threw for 8.0ypa and had a 300 yard game last year while not being able to do it?

Have any of the Tebow bashers ever actually watched the guy play before this year? Did you ever see him missing passes as badly as he has this year? It didn't happen. And don't give me any nonsense about guys being any more or less open this year than other years because he's even struggling with guys that are wide open right now. If you haven't watched him much before then you probably think he's been doing that his whole life, because you heard he was a running QB in college. That's not the case, that started THIS YEAR when Fox/Elway started hardcore messing with his throwing motion.

The whole throwing motion thing was just a big pile of garbage from the get-go anyway. It probably got started with some underpaid scout who was trying to justify his spot on the payroll and snowballed into this mess from typical NFL group think and even worse internet group think. It doesn't make him fumble more while throwing (if anything he has been among the league's best in both college and the NFL in not being stripped while throwing) and it doesn't make him miss NFL "windows".

What's one thing you've never ever noticed about the talking heads who have tried to show us Tebow's poor release? They've NEVER actually compared the time it takes to release. You know how they used to do it with guys like Marino where they'd put a frame of him and another QB side by side with a clock showing their time to release? With Tebow, they only show us stills of how far the ball drops, never actual comparisons of release time.

(link)Everyone's arm moves at a different speed and there's more to it than just the low point of the ball. Tebow also comes across his chest diagonally rather than over the top like most QBs so that saves some of the time that he loses by starting lower. It takes him longer to get to the start point than most QBs but once he gets there, it takes him less time than most QBs to get from that start point to his end point because he doesn't go over the top.

You see it at the end of games. He doesn't magically get more accurate at the end of games and start making those throws he's been missing all game long through divine intervention, in spite of his reputation. He suddenly gets more accurate because he stops focusing on his throwing motion and starts focusing on making good things happen.

If Fox/Elway ever let him "revert" to his "bad" throwing motion, the accuracy stuff will be cleared up for the most part. Not to the point where he's going to be a precision QB, but to the point where he can be a Mcnabb type QB. One that still has below average accuracy but makes up for it in other ways. He just has to get from "awful" to "below average" in accuracy, which can be accomplished by forgetting about this whole throwing motion debacle.

Sadly, John Fox seems to be just about the most stubborn person on the planet and I doubt he'll ever let it go.

I've said from the get-go that I think Tebow will fail as an NFL QB because of his poor ability to read NFL defenses, not because of any physical issues. I actually think he's made much better stride than I thought he would reading the field this year (for the most part, he was throwing to the right guys last night). However, until he gets away from Fox he's never going to get the mechanics issues fixed. And by fixed, I mean ignored.

 

[Hendo]

Nothing he does will fix how slow his release is. It is hall-of-shame slow, and not something really fixable as we have seen.

 

[JFurby]

Independent thinking...

The whole throwing motion thing was just a big pile of garbage from the get-go anyway. It probably got started with some underpaid scout who was trying to justify his spot on the payroll and snowballed into this mess from typical NFL group think and even worse internet group think. It doesn't make him fumble more while throwing (if anything he has been among the league's best in both college and the NFL in not being stripped while throwing) and it doesn't make him miss NFL "windows".What's one thing you've never ever noticed about the talking heads who have tried to show us Tebow's poor release? They've NEVER actually compared the time it takes to release. You know how they used to do it with guys like Marino where they'd put a frame of him and another QB side by side with a clock showing their time to release? With Tebow, they only show us stills of how far the ball drops, never actual comparisons of release time.

Ignorant group think...

Nothing he does will fix how slow his release is. It is hall-of-shame slow, and not something really fixable as we have seen.

This forum could use a little more of the insightful thinking and less of the latter. Great job bagel.

 

[shader]

...In college he was hitting those throws. In the NFL he isn't. So what is the problem?...

NFL defenders are better and they are faster. In the NFL, the window the QB is throwing into is smaller both in space and in time. What the NFL considers an open receiver would often be considered a well-covered receiver in college.In college defenders aren't on the receivers as close. The throw can be further off from perfect but the receiver still have room to adjust without the defender being able to make a play. The same inaccurate throw in the NFL the defender is going to get his hands on, or on the receiver because he's tighter on the receiver and can close faster.

I disagree. This isn't the problem. In college, Tebow used to routinely hit Percy Harvin running behind defenders. He threw short passes and slants and hit his receivers in stride. How many times has Eric Decker gotten wide open deep down the field? Tebow just completely overthrows him.He's making the proper reads right now, but he's just missing the players. Yes, NFL cornerbacks are great. But so are NFL receivers. Right? Guys still get open in the NFL, and Tebow seems to make good decisions about where to throw the ball. He just misses the throws. Many of these same throws are throws he made in college. I just can't figure out why all of a sudden he is so inaccurate.

 

[AmosMoses]

I know there are a million Tebow threads, but I want to discuss one specific thing regarding Tebow and that is his delivery and accuracy.Much was made when he was going through the draft process, of him learning a new way to throw the ball. We saw clips of him overhauling his mechanics, working with coaches and trying to quicken that delivery.At this point, his accuracy is not very good. But it hasn't always been this way. At Florida he never had these kinds of problems.I know it's college vs the NFL, but when a receiver breaks open down field and you throw a bomb, or when a receiver is open on a slant and you throw it to him, it's still the exact same throw. It's not a question of him reading defenses or making the wrong decision, because he's not throwing picks.In college he was hitting those throws. In the NFL he isn't. So what is the problem?1. Have too many coaches messed with his delivery and now he is like a golfer who just doesn't know how to swing a club anymore, he's so confused?2. Are his receivers the problem? They are all young.3. Is it in his head and the big stage is making him make rush things?4. Or finally is the fact that they rarely throw the ball and then that they played the Jets this week (who Flacco went 10-31 against earlier in the year) the reason for the poor passing stats? If this is the case Tebow should improve those numbers in future weeks.I just don't get it. I mean, Tebow is never going to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but I would never have expected things to get THIS bad. Heck, even at the end of last year, he was 16 for 29 with 300 yards in one of his games. Not an unbelievable percentage, but certainly better than what he's showing in recent weeks.We are talking about an incredibly dangerous player if he can get more accurate. If I were Fox and Elway, my only focus would be to get Tim back to a 50-55 percent passer, and that should be enough for him to be really good.

It most certainly isn't 3. He played in the SEC, and in a few major bowl games. I bet he played in 30 games that were louder and with more people in the stadium than your typical NFL game.

 

[shader]

Free Bagel, that's an incredible post and I totally agree.

I've never seen anything like the digression that Tebow is on from a passing standpoint. He's making throws that he used to make in his sleep look awful. And to my eye, it appears that the ball isn't coming out of his hand the way it used to. He just looks uncomfortable and awkward throwing the ball.

In college, he was never like this. Yeah, he was great at running it, but he was also GREAT at passing the ball. He wasn't an Eric Crouch. He was a Vince Young and an Andrew Luck. He could run it and throw it equally well, and that's why he was so amazing in college.

Whatever is going on needs to get fixed now. If it does, Tebow could be a legendary QB, and I'm being 100% serious.

Donovan Mcnabb is a great analogy because Mcnabb has always had 2 or 3 passes a game that just were awful. I mean, passes that hit the ground 5 yards in front of the receiver awful.

If Tebow could be a McNabb throwing the ball, he'll be unstoppable due to his leadership and abilities running the ball.

By the way, if anyone has doubts about his ability to place the ball in spots, go watch tape of the Alabama-Florida SEC Championship game of a few years ago (2008). He lit up Alabama through the air. They allowed him to do NOTHING on the ground and he torched them with his arm. Rolando McClain, Kareem Jackson, Javier Arenas....NFL defenders all over that squad, and Tebow was placing the ball perfectly all game long.

He's not the same as he was. He's ten times worse from a passing perspective.

 

[sports_fan]

The sample size with whatever mechanical changes he has made is way too small for anything but pure speculation about his long term outlook. Often times with major changes there's an adjustment period where you can expect a player to get worse before he gets better. Happens in baseball all the time with pitching mechanics. But since it's Tebow the improvement should be instantaneous.

 

[glumpy]

Heck, even at the end of last year, he was 16 for 29 with 300 yards in one of his games. Not an unbelievable percentage, but certainly better than what he's showing in recent weeks.

We are talking about an incredibly dangerous player if he can get more accurate. If I were Fox and Elway, my only focus would be to get Tim back to a 50-55 percent passer, and that should be enough for him to be really good.

I've already read the thread but wanted to go back to this. I would add in advance that I'm also impressed with Bagel's post. Last year Tebow was exactly a 50% passer for the season, 41 for 82. That does include an isolated pass in week 10 for TD, so the percentage for the three games at the end of the season when he did more than get his feet wet was actually 49.38%. He did have 3 interceptions, which averages about one for every 27 attempts.

This year he has definitely improved on the interception rate, with only one for 125 attempts--but not question his mechanics have been disrupted, going down to a 44.80 percent completion rate. One might note too that his 10 td's (overall) this year over 6 games does not campare so well at the 11 he scored in a McDaniels offense over three games and three appearances.

As a Carolina fan I've also long been a fan of John Fox--so this is a disappointment--but I must say that it's not entirely unexpected given the fact that Fox runs a running offense first and foremost, frequently with a caretaker QB. As one who jumped on the Tebow train as soon as he was declared starter, I'm also disappointed with the fantasy points drop. Last year in those three full end-of-year games he averaged 31.65 points in my league's scoring; this year in his six starts he's at 23.71 and likely to be waiver wire fodder in our league again soon despite the fact I'll still be rooting for him.

 

[shader]

The sample size with whatever mechanical changes he has made is way too small for anything but pure speculation about his long term outlook. Often times with major changes there's an adjustment period where you can expect a player to get worse before he gets better. Happens in baseball all the time with pitching mechanics. But since it's Tebow the improvement should be instantaneous.

I agree that changes do take a period of time to take effect...But the difference is shocking.I think it's time to scrap the changes and let Tebow throw like he wants to.

 

[CalBear]

NFL defenders are better and they are faster. In the NFL, the window the QB is throwing into is smaller both in space and in time. What the NFL considers an open receiver would often be considered a well-covered receiver in college.

In college defenders aren't on the receivers as close. The throw can be further off from perfect but the receiver still have room to adjust without the defender being able to make a play. The same inaccurate throw in the NFL the defender is going to get his hands on, or on the receiver because he's tighter on the receiver and can close faster.

Not to pick on you here, but I'm so sick and tired of this excuse. This has nothing to do with what's being discussed here. Let's forget about the defenders for a second and only talk about plays where the receiver is wide open with no one within 5 yards of him.Tebow has missed on plenty of passes this year where guys were completely uncovered, and missed very very badly. That never happened to him in college, and really never happened to him last year either. We're at the point where you could go out and have a game of back yard catch with Tebow and he may throw the ball 14 yards over your head for no apparent reason. That is not in any way similar to his history, he was never like that before.

I think it simply goes to the fact that he's under a lot more pressure. A 90% free throw shooter will not hit anything close to 90% of jump shots from the free throw line, because he doesn't have time to set up and have perfect mechanics every time. The same applies to Tebow; in the NFL he's more conscious of defenders moving quickly both on the rush and in the secondary, so his accuracy suffers as he tries to rush throws.

 

[Ping Pong]

First off, great post by Bagel.

Second, I wonder if these accuracy issues that are popping up are related to the talk in training camp of Tebow regressing, leading to the whole trade Orton/don't trade Orton debacle, as well as Tebow being listed as 3rd on the depth chart. If this is the case, I'd find it hard to believe that Fox is the one pushing Tebow to change his mechanics (assuming that he obeyed the lockout rules and didn't have contact with his players). If it was Fox, then he had to come to training camp, tell Tebow to change his mechanics, then decide in a short 2 week window that Tebow couldn't succeed and deserved to be 3rd on the depth chart. If this was the case, then why did the broncos try to trade Orton at the beginning of camp?

I think the more likely scenario is that someone in the organization (Elway?) decided that from what we saw last year, Tebow was good enough to be the future of the franchise, but that he HAD to fix his delivery. They put it on him to work on it through the offseason, confident that he'd return with a prettier arm and all the intangibles/rushing ability in tact. When Fox was hired, he was probably told that Tebow would be his QB, and they would be shopping Orton as soon as the lockout ended. But, when the lockout ended and training camps actually started, Fox (and the rest of the Broncos organization) saw first hand that the change in mechanics destroyed Tebow's accuracy, and they quickly put a stop to the Orton trades.

 

[LargeMouthBass]

Great another Teblow thread.

Of course, I have to add my two pennies though. My advice to Tebow is to chill out on the bicep curls and tricep presses. My theory is bigger your arm, slower the delivery. It's like those weight lifters trying to throw a punch. It's not practical for a QB.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Hey I was just thinking the same to a lesser extent. Vy and Phillip River never changed their delivery and I tend to believe they were better off for it. Some throwing/shooting motions are just natural.

Long term I believe a quicker release will help TT. As of now consider him a guy that's just now learning how to throw. In college he did have accuracy problems along with throwing wobbly passes.

 

[sports_fan]

The sample size with whatever mechanical changes he has made is way too small for anything but pure speculation about his long term outlook. Often times with major changes there's an adjustment period where you can expect a player to get worse before he gets better. Happens in baseball all the time with pitching mechanics. But since it's Tebow the improvement should be instantaneous.

I agree that changes do take a period of time to take effect...But the difference is shocking.I think it's time to scrap the changes and let Tebow throw like he wants to.

I think that'd be a real bad move.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Hey I was just thinking the same to a lesser extent. Vy and Phillip River never changed their delivery and I tend to believe they were better off for it. Some throwing/shooting motions are just natural. Long term I believe a quicker release will help TT. As of now consider him a guy that's just now learning how to throw. In college he did have accuracy problems along with throwing wobbly passes.

I disagree.Again, I qualify my opinion with the fact I saw every pass Tebow threw in college, not to mention was here during summers when he would work out throwing passes to Harvin outside the O'Connell Center (which happens to be next to the Law School I am attending). Watched the Orange and Blue games. Read the Alligator articles on his progress during his stay here.There are a few things people don't seem to realize. First, in Meyers playbook, players were assigned plays they could execute best. That's why there was never "one" guy on offense you had to stop. Three guys would run the ball. WRs worked on the patterns they ran best. Each play had different sets of players shuttle in. Tebow started by coming into the game simply to run short yardage as a spot player. Then, when people would expect the short run, posts were added to his game. In his second year Tebow still never threw all over the field. He threw posts, throws to the sidelines and short middle crosses. He also had a nice shuttle pass and the "jump pass" about once a year. He always struggled with deep passes over the middle (down and ins, deep crosses).But the accuracy thing is new. It is possible they have him working on alot of throws he never threw at UF. He isn't perfecting a handful of throws anymore. He is working on his delivery and simultaneously a full playbook of throws. I think that approach is a mistake.Tebow needs to be a runner first. He is a Bull. When the defense is forced to key on him as their first read, he is deadly. Then he can hit specific passes very accurately. He was never the guy who could bring us back from more than 10-14 points. That wasn't the way the offense was designed.People also forget that we had very strong defense and special teams while he was here also. Part of the reason is that he kept the defense off the field. Our defenses were always small and fast. If they stayed on the field, we would get run on. I think the run game is part of the reason Denver's defense has improved since he has been playing.

 

[Bri]

Andre Ware didn't need any tinkering, I don't care what they said. They messed him up.

Akili Smith ...idk if he would have ever been good, but they sure made him look worse. He was a superior athlete than most NFL players and guys blessed like that spend entire careers blessed. I have never seen the need to mess with it.

David Carr threw sidearm and I loved it. After getting shellacked, he occasionally threw like a softball pitcher or somesuch and...he couldn't even revert to what he did best.

Supposedly (and according to a whole lot of people) he looked great a summer or two ago in NYG camp. So, I guess it takes that long for them to learn new ways.

Favre had a real sweet career making crazy throws that made coaches cringe.

Randall did something with his elbow that irritated me to hear as that deep ball was so sweet a pass. Only Michael Bishop have I ever seen throw such a sweet deep ball as young Randall. Bishop took zero effort to throw the ball "a mile" and they botched him up on short passes, then he was suddenly someone that couldn't understand an NFL offense and he was all botched up by someone.

Leave Tebow alone!

 

[Bri]

Hey I was just thinking the same to a lesser extent. Vy and Phillip River never changed their delivery and I tend to believe they were better off for it. Some throwing/shooting motions are just natural. Long term I believe a quicker release will help TT. As of now consider him a guy that's just now learning how to throw. In college he did have accuracy problems along with throwing wobbly passes.

Larry Bird

 

[ShaHBucks]

The guy is working hard to improve and has improved, though it's painful to watch it's a matter of time and practice. I didn't watch the guy from my office widow but I seen a #### load of passes he threw in college were WR need to adjust to the ball, wobbly throws ect ... but never the ones 10 yards out of bounds lol.

I'm not a believer in reinventing the wheel or ignoring fundamentals. I watched McNabb have the same issue his entire career and was too stubborn to improve. McNabb would still be playing at a high level if he decided to work on his feet-work a longtime ago(the same problem Tebow has). For a while McNabb's running abilities covered up any fundamental problem he had but look at him now. There was a point where he got sick of getting hurt every season and decided he needs to use his arm more to help his team. Guess what? you don't learn that in ONE off season Mac5.

Give him time and he will be better off LONG TERM for it. As of now he is learning how to throw.

 

[Bri]

I know there are a million Tebow threads, but I want to discuss one specific thing regarding Tebow and that is his delivery and accuracy.Much was made when he was going through the draft process, of him learning a new way to throw the ball. We saw clips of him overhauling his mechanics, working with coaches and trying to quicken that delivery.At this point, his accuracy is not very good. But it hasn't always been this way. At Florida he never had these kinds of problems.I know it's college vs the NFL, but when a receiver breaks open down field and you throw a bomb, or when a receiver is open on a slant and you throw it to him, it's still the exact same throw. It's not a question of him reading defenses or making the wrong decision, because he's not throwing picks.In college he was hitting those throws. In the NFL he isn't. So what is the problem?1. Have too many coaches messed with his delivery and now he is like a golfer who just doesn't know how to swing a club anymore, he's so confused?2. Are his receivers the problem? They are all young.3. Is it in his head and the big stage is making him make rush things?4. Or finally is the fact that they rarely throw the ball and then that they played the Jets this week (who Flacco went 10-31 against earlier in the year) the reason for the poor passing stats? If this is the case Tebow should improve those numbers in future weeks.I just don't get it. I mean, Tebow is never going to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but I would never have expected things to get THIS bad. Heck, even at the end of last year, he was 16 for 29 with 300 yards in one of his games. Not an unbelievable percentage, but certainly better than what he's showing in recent weeks.We are talking about an incredibly dangerous player if he can get more accurate. If I were Fox and Elway, my only focus would be to get Tim back to a 50-55 percent passer, and that should be enough for him to be really good.

there was an awesome QB coach in NFLE named Mike Chan that turned quite a few guys into NFL QBs. He tinkered just a bit and ...you might enjoy googling about him if ya got some time. Someone like him is all the Broncos need

 

[GregR]

NFL defenders are better and they are faster. In the NFL, the window the QB is throwing into is smaller both in space and in time. What the NFL considers an open receiver would often be considered a well-covered receiver in college.

In college defenders aren't on the receivers as close. The throw can be further off from perfect but the receiver still have room to adjust without the defender being able to make a play. The same inaccurate throw in the NFL the defender is going to get his hands on, or on the receiver because he's tighter on the receiver and can close faster.

Not to pick on you here, but I'm so sick and tired of this excuse. This has nothing to do with what's being discussed here. Let's forget about the defenders for a second and only talk about plays where the receiver is wide open with no one within 5 yards of him.Tebow has missed on plenty of passes this year where guys were completely uncovered, and missed very very badly. That never happened to him in college, and really never happened to him last year either. We're at the point where you could go out and have a game of back yard catch with Tebow and he may throw the ball 14 yards over your head for no apparent reason. That is not in any way similar to his history, he was never like that before.

No offense taken. Last night was the first full Denver game this year I've gotten to actually watch closer than having on in the background. I knew his completion rate had dropped off further from last year, but didn't think his accuracy on just basic throws had underwent the kind of glaring change as you guys are talking about.

 

[candymanvandyfan]

Only Michael Bishop have I ever seen throw such a sweet deep ball as young Randall. Bishop took zero effort to throw the ball "a mile" and they botched him up on short passes, then he was suddenly someone that couldn't understand an NFL offense and he was all botched up by someone.

To see Michael Bishop throw that ball was really something.

 

[candymanvandyfan]

Somehow I remember this one coaching poem about trying to change players late in their careers:

There once was a .400 hitter named Krantz

Who had the most unusual stance

With his coach's correction

His stance now is perfection

But he can't hit the seat of his pants

I don't know if all the words are right or who said it first, but it always made me chuckle.

 

[Hoss Style]

Great to hear from some guys who saw Tebow throw extensively in college. Although I've gotten to see almost every throw he's thrown in games and open practices here in Denver, I don't follow Florida and didn't get to see much of him there. He really looked that good at Florida as far as accuracy goes? Was it just his WRs were great at getting open or did he actually hit WRs in tight coverage like he's seeing here in the NFL?

Whatever the reason I just hope he gets better. He's fun to watch here and the team seems to love playing along side him.

To those of you who saw him at Florida when he was supposedly more accurate - With his old throwing motion will he be able to make those quick passes needed when facing an all-out blitz? At some point Denver's going to get behind and have to throw and the defense wil know it. How did he look at Florida throwing quick outs? How about when he faced a blitz that was in his face in a split second? Did his longer throwing motion hinder him in those quick reaction scenarios?

Very curious to hear from you Florida guys because I think he's got to make those throws in the NFL sometimes in critical situations.

 

[glumpy]

Hey I was just thinking the same to a lesser extent. Vy and Phillip River never changed their delivery and I tend to believe they were better off for it. Some throwing/shooting motions are just natural. Long term I believe a quicker release will help TT. As of now consider him a guy that's just now learning how to throw. In college he did have accuracy problems along with throwing wobbly passes.

I disagree.Again, I qualify my opinion with the fact I saw every pass Tebow threw in college, not to mention was here during summers when he would work out throwing passes to Harvin outside the O'Connell Center (which happens to be next to the Law School I am attending). Watched the Orange and Blue games. Read the Alligator articles on his progress during his stay here.There are a few things people don't seem to realize. First, in Meyers playbook, players were assigned plays they could execute best. That's why there was never "one" guy on offense you had to stop. Three guys would run the ball. WRs worked on the patterns they ran best. Each play had different sets of players shuttle in. Tebow started by coming into the game simply to run short yardage as a spot player. Then, when people would expect the short run, posts were added to his game. In his second year Tebow still never threw all over the field. He threw posts, throws to the sidelines and short middle crosses. He also had a nice shuttle pass and the "jump pass" about once a year. He always struggled with deep passes over the middle (down and ins, deep crosses).But the accuracy thing is new. It is possible they have him working on alot of throws he never threw at UF. He isn't perfecting a handful of throws anymore. He is working on his delivery and simultaneously a full playbook of throws. I think that approach is a mistake.Tebow needs to be a runner first. He is a Bull. When the defense is forced to key on him as their first read, he is deadly. Then he can hit specific passes very accurately. He was never the guy who could bring us back from more than 10-14 points. That wasn't the way the offense was designed.People also forget that we had very strong defense and special teams while he was here also. Part of the reason is that he kept the defense off the field. Our defenses were always small and fast. If they stayed on the field, we would get run on. I think the run game is part of the reason Denver's defense has improved since he has been playing.

This is really a fantastic and insightful post. Not sure if it speaks well for Tebow's long term prospects though--as the NFL game might not allow for him to operate in such a restricted way. He will have to master the full repertoire of throws and likely pretty quickly--I could see weeks 15 and 16 being high scoring affairs against the Pats and Bills. On an unrelated note--what the hell is a Hairy Snowman doing in Gainesville Florida??!!

 

[grateful zed]

Very curious to hear from you Florida guys because I think he's got to make those throws in the NFL sometimes in critical situations.

well he is on his way to florida now.

 

[GregR]

...

What's one thing you've never ever noticed about the talking heads who have tried to show us Tebow's poor release? They've NEVER actually compared the time it takes to release. You know how they used to do it with guys like Marino where they'd put a frame of him and another QB side by side with a clock showing their time to release? With Tebow, they only show us stills of how far the ball drops, never actual comparisons of release time.

Seeing this post bumped reminded me of something from during the season...When this post was made and I looked at the youtube link and I was skeptical why someone would choose passes where one player is hop stepping forward like he's getting ready to throw a deep ball while the other player seems to be throwing a shorter pass from flat footwork. (Edit) The former being a situation where you might expect the QB to have a little more wind up on it, so have a longer throwing motion.

Well, the network TV broadcasts DID show a side by side comparison between Brady and Tebow this year, after the above post was made. It showed both players throwing from similar footwork instead of what the youtube link showed. And Tebow's release was slower than Brady's.

 

[TimTebow]

...

What's one thing you've never ever noticed about the talking heads who have tried to show us Tebow's poor release? They've NEVER actually compared the time it takes to release. You know how they used to do it with guys like Marino where they'd put a frame of him and another QB side by side with a clock showing their time to release? With Tebow, they only show us stills of how far the ball drops, never actual comparisons of release time.