abckcork01
Footballguy
On the fence between these 2 must keep one. Looking for some advice.
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
portisEasy, Portis.
BrownportisEasy, Portis.
I would probably take Brown too, but not because Betts is any kind of threat to Portis' touches. I like Brown's upside and the fact he's in a contract year. Good discussion though. This is a fairly tough call.CalmLikeABomb said:Brown - much higher reward. His competition for touches, Williams, is getting older and will likely see his share go down this year. Portis's competition for touches, Betts, is thought to be increasing his share this year.
Funny thing is, I don't think Campbell is a winning argument here either considering Brown is playing with Pennington. Campbell both has a better arm (by far) and is also more mobile. I'd remind you that when the Oline was healthy last year during the first half of the year, Portis was very close to leading the league in rushing (IIRC only Peterson was ahead of him) and he had a very solid ypc of >4.5. Now, the o-line for the 'Skins while now healthy and reportedly gelling remains a concern due to age and corresponding injury risk and the 'Phins have a definite advantage there, I would give the 'Skins an advantage in terms of receiving corps. The 'Skins also have a superior defense, which is probably the most marked difference between the two teams and which figures to give Portis more possessions and rushing opportunities, including more with good field position. In other words, surrounding/supporting cast for Portis and Brown is pretty much of a toss-up. I'd still go with Brown for upside, but again this is a close call.BTW, if you're one of those who subscribes to the theory that "your first round pick can't win your league but can lose it for you", then I'd draft Portis. Portis is the safer pick. You're more or less guaranteed 1300 rushing and 1500 total yards and 10 TD's with him. As I said, Brown has higher upside and is more explosive, but seems to me to be a riskier pick. Both have more or less equivalent injury risk.Portis is going earlier, so Brown is better value. If you don't believe me, I have two words for you: Jason Campbell.
You may be right. I simply don't believe in Jason Campbell as a starting NFL QB. If I was a skins fan, I would whine about him endlessly.Funny thing is, I don't think Campbell is a winning argument here either considering Brown is playing with Pennington. Campbell both has a better arm (by far) and is also more mobile. I'd remind you that when the Oline was healthy last year during the first half of the year, Portis was very close to leading the league in rushing (IIRC only Peterson was ahead of him) and he had a very solid ypc of >4.5. Now, the o-line for the 'Skins while now healthy and reportedly gelling remains a concern due to age and corresponding injury risk and the 'Phins have a definite advantage there, I would give the 'Skins an advantage in terms of receiving corps. The 'Skins also have a superior defense, which is probably the most marked difference between the two teams and which figures to give Portis more possessions and rushing opportunities, including more with good field position. In other words, surrounding/supporting cast for Portis and Brown is pretty much of a toss-up. I'd still go with Brown for upside, but again this is a close call.BTW, if you're one of those who subscribes to the theory that "your first round pick can't win your league but can lose it for you", then I'd draft Portis. Portis is the safer pick. You're more or less guaranteed 1300 rushing and 1500 total yards and 10 TD's with him. As I said, Brown has higher upside and is more explosive, but seems to me to be a riskier pick. Both have more or less equivalent injury risk.Portis is going earlier, so Brown is better value. If you don't believe me, I have two words for you: Jason Campbell.
I happen to like Campbell, butYou may be right. I simply don't believe in Jason Campbell as a starting NFL QB. If I was a skins fan, I would whine about him endlessly.
Agreed.But Brown doesen't wear funny constumes.Unquestionably PORTIS! He would've gone for over 1700 yds. rushing last year with about 30+ rec. if not for the collapse of the o-line. As it is he still put up about 1500 yds. and 20+ rec.. He's showing no decline and is still in his prime (27 y.o. I think) and gets an improved defense to work with (and his offensive team-mates should be able to step their games up a collective notch). Portis is an elite back who has been extremely consistent with top notch production. His teams have always invariably counted on him as the bread-winner! Brown would be a gamble compared to Clinton Portis period.![]()
I would probably take Brown too, but not because Betts is any kind of threat to Portis' touches. I like Brown's upside and the fact he's in a contract year. Good discussion though. This is a fairly tough call.Brown - much higher reward. His competition for touches, Williams, is getting older and will likely see his share go down this year. Portis's competition for touches, Betts, is thought to be increasing his share this year.
Betts Expected to Again Have a Big Role
Clinton Portis has said he is fine with whatever role backup running back Ladell Betts has in the offense each season.
Well, it appears Portis will have an opportunity to prove it this season.
Coach Jim Zorn has expanded Betts's responsibilities, making him the primary running back on third downs. That previously had been Portis's domain -- as well as every other down for the Redskins' offense -- as long as Portis was physically sound enough to play or not on the sideline during a rare break for him.
Betts has earned the opportunity because of his impressive performance throughout the offseason and camp and the professionalism he has exhibited under Zorn, coaches and players said. The Redskins also expect Portis to benefit from more time off. Portis experienced a major drop-off in production during the second half of last season (he rushed for at least 80 yards just twice in the final eight games), and his late flop coincided with the team's 2-6 collapse. Fewer plays, the theory goes, should help Portis remain energized from start to finish.
The main reason for the change, though, is that Betts forced the issue because of what he's done on the field, and the Redskins are eager to give him more work.
"He has been preparing to play," offensive coordinator Sherman Smith said. "We told him, 'You need to prepare like a starter would prepare,' because of what we want to do with him. We've already committed to him that he's going to be our third-down guy, so he wants to take ownership of that. And just to be prepared that if something happens to C.P., he's going to go in there and we're not going to miss a beat. He's been great. He's had a great camp."
Of course, it's not as if Betts is unproven.
He has been a steady backup for seven seasons, and shone in his one big chance as a primary running back in 2006. With Portis sidelined for the second half of the season because of a hand injury, Betts rushed for a personal-best 1,154 yards, with a 4.7-yard average and four touchdowns. He also was big in the passing game, catching 53 passes for 445 yards and one touchdown.
Portis reclaimed top-back status under former coach Joe Gibbs in 2007 and played a key role in the Redskins' late-season sprint to an NFC wild-card berth. That season, Betts totaled 335 yards on 93 rushes (a 3.6-yard average) and had 21 receptions for 174 yards.
Last season, Betts sprained his left knee Oct. 12 in a 19-17 loss to the St. Louis Rams and never regained the strong form he displayed in the preseason. He gained 206 yards on 61 rushes (a 3.4-yard average) and caught 22 passes for 200 yards. Zorn last season envisioned a bigger role for Betts "before I got hurt. They were trying to figure out ways to get me involved. I was getting carries, and they even had situations where Clinton and I were in the game at the same time, but the injury kind of derailed all that. Hopefully, we can pick up where we left off."
That's the plan, Smith said.
"He's going to deliver; we're not worried about that," Smith said of Betts, who like Portis is considered outstanding in pass protection. "The thing we're doing with this also, for Clinton, is to give him some plays, some breaks, where we can put another guy in. You need two backs to do it today. One guy can't carry the whole load. We have a very good running back in Ladell Betts, and it's just foolish not to use him."
Portis is open about his disdain for practice and the preseason, but he enjoys the regular season and playoffs. Under Gibbs, Portis remained on the field until he got tired and wanted a break, players said, and Portis rarely wanted a break.
Portis sat out the preseason opener so Betts started last week's 23-0 loss to the Baltimore Ravens. The Redskins host the Pittsburgh Steelers on Saturday at FedEx Field, providing Zorn, Washington's play-caller, with his first opportunity to test his new role for Betts.
I respect what Zorn is attempting to do because Betts too often has been a spectator on the sideline. Many players have told me he deserves a bigger piece of the pie, and not only because he is a good guy who works hard. Betts has proven what he can do with the ball, and it seems downright ludicrous to waste someone with his talent.
Portis, however, has a uniquely close relationship with owner Daniel Snyder. And Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, recently told my guy, Barry Svrluga, that Portis calls "me a lot before the draft, before free agency, [to] talk about guys. He's into it. He knows who's on the team. He knows who the players are around the league. He likes all that. He likes personnel stuff."
And that's why Zorn's plan is risky. Portis has the ear of the owner and the owner's No. 2 guy, and he has gone public in the past when he feels less than appreciated. If the Redskins win with Betts doing more, well, everything should be cool even if Portis longs for the good old days. But if they struggle and Portis is unhappy, well, that could be problematic, especially for Zorn.
"You have to make a commitment to it. You really do," Smith said, referring only to Zorn's plan for the Nos. 1 and 2 running backs. "You have a good running back in Clinton Portis so you say, 'Man, you don't really want to take him off the field.' But there are places where you can play a guy like Ladell Betts, and you rest Clinton Portis.
"Even if it's 15 plays a game, in the fourth quarter, Clinton Portis should be ready to go because he's rested. If we have 2 minutes and 4 seconds before the halftime, Ladell Betts should do that. That's another place Clinton can get some rest. So this is twofold: You want to get Portis rest, but you also want to take advantage if Ladell Betts. He's a good player."
There was talk about this last year too. I'll believe it when I see it.Never forget that Portis is arguably the best RB in the league at blitz pickup, so he's very valuable as an extra blocker on 3rd-and-long.I would probably take Brown too, but not because Betts is any kind of threat to Portis' touches. I like Brown's upside and the fact he's in a contract year. Good discussion though. This is a fairly tough call.Brown - much higher reward. His competition for touches, Williams, is getting older and will likely see his share go down this year. Portis's competition for touches, Betts, is thought to be increasing his share this year.Betts Expected to Again Have a Big Role
Clinton Portis has said he is fine with whatever role backup running back Ladell Betts has in the offense each season.
Well, it appears Portis will have an opportunity to prove it this season.
Coach Jim Zorn has expanded Betts's responsibilities, making him the primary running back on third downs. That previously had been Portis's domain -- as well as every other down for the Redskins' offense -- as long as Portis was physically sound enough to play or not on the sideline during a rare break for him.
Betts has earned the opportunity because of his impressive performance throughout the offseason and camp and the professionalism he has exhibited under Zorn, coaches and players said. The Redskins also expect Portis to benefit from more time off. Portis experienced a major drop-off in production during the second half of last season (he rushed for at least 80 yards just twice in the final eight games), and his late flop coincided with the team's 2-6 collapse. Fewer plays, the theory goes, should help Portis remain energized from start to finish.
The main reason for the change, though, is that Betts forced the issue because of what he's done on the field, and the Redskins are eager to give him more work.
"He has been preparing to play," offensive coordinator Sherman Smith said. "We told him, 'You need to prepare like a starter would prepare,' because of what we want to do with him. We've already committed to him that he's going to be our third-down guy, so he wants to take ownership of that. And just to be prepared that if something happens to C.P., he's going to go in there and we're not going to miss a beat. He's been great. He's had a great camp."
Of course, it's not as if Betts is unproven.
He has been a steady backup for seven seasons, and shone in his one big chance as a primary running back in 2006. With Portis sidelined for the second half of the season because of a hand injury, Betts rushed for a personal-best 1,154 yards, with a 4.7-yard average and four touchdowns. He also was big in the passing game, catching 53 passes for 445 yards and one touchdown.
Portis reclaimed top-back status under former coach Joe Gibbs in 2007 and played a key role in the Redskins' late-season sprint to an NFC wild-card berth. That season, Betts totaled 335 yards on 93 rushes (a 3.6-yard average) and had 21 receptions for 174 yards.
Last season, Betts sprained his left knee Oct. 12 in a 19-17 loss to the St. Louis Rams and never regained the strong form he displayed in the preseason. He gained 206 yards on 61 rushes (a 3.4-yard average) and caught 22 passes for 200 yards. Zorn last season envisioned a bigger role for Betts "before I got hurt. They were trying to figure out ways to get me involved. I was getting carries, and they even had situations where Clinton and I were in the game at the same time, but the injury kind of derailed all that. Hopefully, we can pick up where we left off."
That's the plan, Smith said.
"He's going to deliver; we're not worried about that," Smith said of Betts, who like Portis is considered outstanding in pass protection. "The thing we're doing with this also, for Clinton, is to give him some plays, some breaks, where we can put another guy in. You need two backs to do it today. One guy can't carry the whole load. We have a very good running back in Ladell Betts, and it's just foolish not to use him."
Portis is open about his disdain for practice and the preseason, but he enjoys the regular season and playoffs. Under Gibbs, Portis remained on the field until he got tired and wanted a break, players said, and Portis rarely wanted a break.
Portis sat out the preseason opener so Betts started last week's 23-0 loss to the Baltimore Ravens. The Redskins host the Pittsburgh Steelers on Saturday at FedEx Field, providing Zorn, Washington's play-caller, with his first opportunity to test his new role for Betts.
I respect what Zorn is attempting to do because Betts too often has been a spectator on the sideline. Many players have told me he deserves a bigger piece of the pie, and not only because he is a good guy who works hard. Betts has proven what he can do with the ball, and it seems downright ludicrous to waste someone with his talent.
Portis, however, has a uniquely close relationship with owner Daniel Snyder. And Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, recently told my guy, Barry Svrluga, that Portis calls "me a lot before the draft, before free agency, [to] talk about guys. He's into it. He knows who's on the team. He knows who the players are around the league. He likes all that. He likes personnel stuff."
And that's why Zorn's plan is risky. Portis has the ear of the owner and the owner's No. 2 guy, and he has gone public in the past when he feels less than appreciated. If the Redskins win with Betts doing more, well, everything should be cool even if Portis longs for the good old days. But if they struggle and Portis is unhappy, well, that could be problematic, especially for Zorn.
"You have to make a commitment to it. You really do," Smith said, referring only to Zorn's plan for the Nos. 1 and 2 running backs. "You have a good running back in Clinton Portis so you say, 'Man, you don't really want to take him off the field.' But there are places where you can play a guy like Ladell Betts, and you rest Clinton Portis.
"Even if it's 15 plays a game, in the fourth quarter, Clinton Portis should be ready to go because he's rested. If we have 2 minutes and 4 seconds before the halftime, Ladell Betts should do that. That's another place Clinton can get some rest. So this is twofold: You want to get Portis rest, but you also want to take advantage if Ladell Betts. He's a good player."
I'd say a combination of his mileage and Betts reportedly getting more carries and taking over 3rd downs.I'm trying to figure out at what point I can not let Portis drop any further. In an earlier league I was grabbing him in the early 2nd thinking he was great value. After the first week of preseaon, I got him late 2nd in another league. And now I'm middle to late 3rd, 3 spots ahead of me and I'm thinking Ocho, Portis, K. Smith, TO in PPR (R. Brown gone). Looks like I might have Portis in yet another league.
I'm really not in love with him, but I know he will give me steady numbers and top 10 RB every year. Just not sure what has actually happened to have him continue to drop.
sooner than later he will break down. Remeber, Portis's age is VERY misleading. He has WAY more wear and tear than most guys his age.To put things into perspective:Shaun Alexander 2187 career CarriesEdge James 2982 career carriesLT 2657 career carriesPORTIS: 2052 Career Carries. He is getting up there.Now, I know this isn't entirely indicative that he is going to drop off this year or next and it isnt scientific, but history strongly suggests that this year will be the beginning of a downward slide for our guy Portis. If not, then I certainly see this as his LAST dominant year as an everydown back.I'm trying to figure out at what point I can not let Portis drop any further. In an earlier league I was grabbing him in the early 2nd thinking he was great value. After the first week of preseaon, I got him late 2nd in another league. And now I'm middle to late 3rd, 3 spots ahead of me and I'm thinking Ocho, Portis, K. Smith, TO in PPR (R. Brown gone). Looks like I might have Portis in yet another league. I'm really not in love with him, but I know he will give me steady numbers and top 10 RB every year. Just not sure what has actually happened to have him continue to drop.
Age is a funny thing. Portis is like 3 months older than Brown. You can argue mileage if you want but really Portis has more carries because of talent and opportunity which equalled into production. He has the history of producing while Brown has a 5 game stint a couple years back. I think Brown has talent but has never been a workhorse(even in college, he split with Caddy) so why believe he will be now. I'll take the 325-375 touch 1500-1700 yard guy and be happy.sooner than later he will break down. Remeber, Portis's age is VERY misleading. He has WAY more wear and tear than most guys his age.To put things into perspective:Shaun Alexander 2187 career CarriesEdge James 2982 career carriesLT 2657 career carriesPORTIS: 2052 Career Carries. He is getting up there.Now, I know this isn't entirely indicative that he is going to drop off this year or next and it isnt scientific, but history strongly suggests that this year will be the beginning of a downward slide for our guy Portis. If not, then I certainly see this as his LAST dominant year as an everydown back.I'm trying to figure out at what point I can not let Portis drop any further. In an earlier league I was grabbing him in the early 2nd thinking he was great value. After the first week of preseaon, I got him late 2nd in another league. And now I'm middle to late 3rd, 3 spots ahead of me and I'm thinking Ocho, Portis, K. Smith, TO in PPR (R. Brown gone). Looks like I might have Portis in yet another league. I'm really not in love with him, but I know he will give me steady numbers and top 10 RB every year. Just not sure what has actually happened to have him continue to drop.
I dont think Pierre is anywhere close to the other two. just my 2 cents.I was pretty shocked when I was faced with this decision last weekend. In mock after mock, ADP after ADP, Portis was going in the second. Yet, there I was with pick 3.05, staring at Portis, Pierre, and Brown.I went Portis, but still don't know if I made the right pick. Pretty sure I would feel the same way had I taken one of the other guys.Total toss-up.
Pierre is value based on opportunity. He's gonna get the lion's share of carries in an explosive offense. Portis and Brown are values on talent.I dont think Pierre is anywhere close to the other two. just my 2 cents.I was pretty shocked when I was faced with this decision last weekend. In mock after mock, ADP after ADP, Portis was going in the second. Yet, there I was with pick 3.05, staring at Portis, Pierre, and Brown.I went Portis, but still don't know if I made the right pick. Pretty sure I would feel the same way had I taken one of the other guys.Total toss-up.
But Pierre isn't value based on anything at 3.05. Portis and Brown both are. I was faced with the Portis/Brown choice at 3.02 last weekend, and I went with Brown. Very, very close, though. I went with Brown because over the last few years, the "safe" picks have gotten me 8-5 and a first round playoff loss. At some point in the draft you gotta start swinging for the fences if you want the big prize.Pierre is value based on opportunity. He's gonna get the lion's share of carries in an explosive offense. Portis and Brown are values on talent.I dont think Pierre is anywhere close to the other two. just my 2 cents.I was pretty shocked when I was faced with this decision last weekend. In mock after mock, ADP after ADP, Portis was going in the second. Yet, there I was with pick 3.05, staring at Portis, Pierre, and Brown.I went Portis, but still don't know if I made the right pick. Pretty sure I would feel the same way had I taken one of the other guys.Total toss-up.
Didn't Betts go for 1599 total yds, 53 catches, and 5 TDs while starting 7 games the 06 season when Portis got hurt? Not too shabby.I'll believe that Betts is stealing touches from Portis when I see it...and when Betts actually does something with them.I'll never forget 2 years ago, Giants game, Betts was inserted as the goal line back and got stuffed twice, the Skins lost and the season tailspinned. Fast forward to last week, Betts at the goal line...deja vu all over again. Betts will get some touches. But regardless of Zorn's coachspeak, he will go to Portis whenever he needs to. Betts is an average runner, an average receiver, and a below-average short yardage guy. All that being said, the analysis above sounds pretty reasonable. Portis is much more reliable, has a higher floor, but Brown has the higher ceiling.