Randy Moss from here on out (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Cassel actually showed he could throw it deep, which is all it takes with Moss.Looked promising, but we'll see this week whether it was an aberration.

The problem I see with Cassel isn ot so much to throw a decent ball (long, intermediate, or short). Since he has limited experience he takes too long to make reads and then has very little pocket presence.This past week, there were times where he got crushed and had no idea defenders were going to hit him. There were other times where he had great blocking and a full pocket with several seconds to throw where he ran into defenders and/or his own blockers and took sacks when there initially wasno one near him.I have no idea how long it takes for QBs to work on reads and their internal clock. He wuold be ok if he corrected either or both of those issues. If there were any lingering issues from not starting for 10 years, those would be them.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Cassel actually showed he could throw it deep, which is all it takes with Moss.Looked promising, but we'll see this week whether it was an aberration.

The problem I see with Cassel isn ot so much to throw a decent ball (long, intermediate, or short). Since he has limited experience he takes too long to make reads and then has very little pocket presence.This past week, there were times where he got crushed and had no idea defenders were going to hit him. There were other times where he had great blocking and a full pocket with several seconds to throw where he ran into defenders and/or his own blockers and took sacks when there initially wasno one near him.I have no idea how long it takes for QBs to work on reads and their internal clock. He wuold be ok if he corrected either or both of those issues. If there were any lingering issues from not starting for 10 years, those would be them.

Two questions DY:1) Is the Kevin O'Connell switch plan now on the backburner for the forseeable future (i.e. remainder of the year barring injury) or is there still some concern that Cassel's performance was in fact an aberration?2) Based on how NE looked this week (admittedly I did not see the game), would you be holding Moss or trying to sell him?

 

[David Yudkin]

Cassel actually showed he could throw it deep, which is all it takes with Moss.Looked promising, but we'll see this week whether it was an aberration.

The problem I see with Cassel isn ot so much to throw a decent ball (long, intermediate, or short). Since he has limited experience he takes too long to make reads and then has very little pocket presence.This past week, there were times where he got crushed and had no idea defenders were going to hit him. There were other times where he had great blocking and a full pocket with several seconds to throw where he ran into defenders and/or his own blockers and took sacks when there initially wasno one near him.I have no idea how long it takes for QBs to work on reads and their internal clock. He wuold be ok if he corrected either or both of those issues. If there were any lingering issues from not starting for 10 years, those would be them.

Two questions DY:1) Is the Kevin O'Connell switch plan now on the backburner for the forseeable future (i.e. remainder of the year barring injury) or is there still some concern that Cassel's performance was in fact an aberration?2) Based on how NE looked this week (admittedly I did not see the game), would you be holding Moss or trying to sell him?

The O'Connell "switch" was predicated on the offense remaining stuck in neutral and the team losing. The team will evaluate both the offense, their record, and what Cassel's role in the success or failure of the offense. If they are 8-1, then I doubt they would switch. If they are 3-5 and he lost several games in a row and the team averaged 17 points a game, then they probably would make a change. At this point we just don't know. He had a big play to Moss this week but hte rest of the game I would probably give him a C+. There were many times he did not locate and throw to guys that were wide open and instead either got sacked, ran for no gain, hit someone way underneath for a few yards, or threw the ball away. Ultimately, those are all better options than throwing a turnover or fumbling, but I'm not sure a QB should get high marks for that.Everyone saw the homerun ball to Moss, and if he can hit on one big play a game while managing the game efficiently they probably will stick with him. A lot depends on how high scoring the games are. If they start scoring 21-24 poins and allowing more than that, then they will have to open the throttle on the offense no matter who the QB is.As for Moss, I think this past week is the perfect example of how precarious Moss' totals will be from week to week. If Cassel misfired on that long bomb and it went incomplete, he would have had 4 receptions for 45 yards and 0 TD. And we'd be hearing from people to dump him like a hot potato.Moss will be ok in games where he catches one of those deep passes. The other games he won't be worth starting. But you can't bench him and his trade value is still low.I still think Moss would be better off with O'Connell, as I think he is a better overall QB than Cassel. Certainly that's more conjecture than fact, as we haven't seen O'Connell in live action that matters yet.

 

[Raider Nation]

I haven't read the whole post so excuse me if I'm repeating something.

Has anyone watched a NE game the past two weeks? He shows zero effort. He is alligator arming every throw that comes his way. He does not block anymore on run plays. He doesn't care anymore because he knows they can't win it all.

I am glad I was able to get rid of him. Good luck Moss owners. You are going to need it.

We'll talk later...

turfman gets po\/\/ned!

 

[KellysHeroes]

Cassels looked awful last night...

 

[Raider Nation]

Cassels looked awful last night...

Thought for sure O'Connell would see action late in the blowout, especially since he played his college ball in San Diego.

 

[blake]

I haven't read the whole post so excuse me if I'm repeating something.

Has anyone watched a NE game the past two weeks? He shows zero effort. He is alligator arming every throw that comes his way. He does not block anymore on run plays. He doesn't care anymore because he knows they can't win it all.

I am glad I was able to get rid of him. Good luck Moss owners. You are going to need it.

We'll talk later...

turfman gets po\/\/ned!

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Cassel is terrible.

I don't like to say this about players but I've seen him enough, he's no good. He is not an accurate QB and he has poor touch on the shorter passes. He has an OK arm if he decides to just sit back and heave it up, but again, it's all over the place.

This guy doesn't finish the season and I'm not talking about getting injured. His performance is so bad, I think they'd do just as good if they brought back Troy Brown and he played QB.

 

[Ripleys]

Randy Moss will stay on my bench for the rest of the year. Thank God i do have other solid options. But as previously noted, if he doesn't connect on a long bomb, you're looking at 5-10 fantasy points per week. No thanks. Get back soon Tom, get back soon.

 

[RamMan]

Time to bump the Randy thread.

Any thoughts on this weekend's game with DEN? If Cassel and Moss can't produce numbers vs. this atrociously bad pass D I think it's curtains for Moss for a while. I just bought low on Moss and I'm hoping these two kick it into gear starting this weekend. The Pats are 3 -2 and only a game behind BUF. They've got the motivation to keep playing hard, which is probably the key for keeping Moss involved. If BB doesn't try to get the ball into Moss' hands at least 10 times a game, he ought to be strangled with that lame sweatshirt he wears.

I'm predicting they move Moss around a bit this game to get him matched up with Bly and away from Champ. I'm also predicting 100+ yrds/1 TD for Moss. Any takers?

 

[pghrob]

So what to make of Randy tomorrow night, before a national tv audience against the Denver pass defense? Can Cassell get him the ball? My early inclination is to bench him in favor of Donnie Avery. Unbelievable that I would be thinking about doing this with my #1 pick. Of course, benching Randy would mean this is the week that he gets that long TD that is pretty much the only reason to start him.

When it comes down to the decision to start Randy Moss, you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. I just plain hate being damned, hence the strong urge to bench him this week.

 

[simsarge]

It's a toss up for me also. Except for week one Randy has stuck it to me. Doing decent (but not '07ish) on my bench and laying a turd on the weeks I started him. He really is a WR2 at best because of his upside. Cassel is the X factor. If he can get Moss involved early, then I think like any tempermental NFL Star he starts to play to his potential. But if Cassel dinks and dunks to Welker and Morris/Faulk then then things become a vicious circle. Moss seems to take himself out of the gameplan. Running crappy routes, not blocking, being is moody apethetic self. That keeps Cassle from looking for him and the Coaching staff stops calling his number.

Denvers defensive tendencies so far have them middle of the road in our league. But it really has to be this week or bust with Moss.. My guess is he'll reward owners that start him with a good game, but it'll be a tease for the rest of the year.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Given the matchup, location, timing of the game, etc., I'd probably treat Moss like WR10-WR15 this week if I owned him.

110 and a TD is not out of the question, but neither is it in the bank.

 

[pghrob]

Given the matchup, location, timing of the game, etc., I'd probably treat Moss like WR10-WR15 this week if I owned him.110 and a TD is not out of the question, but neither is it in the bank.

I would be more inclined to agree if not for Cassell. In a word, Cassell's effect on Moss' fantasy value has been crippling.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Given the matchup, location, timing of the game, etc., I'd probably treat Moss like WR10-WR15 this week if I owned him.110 and a TD is not out of the question, but neither is it in the bank.

I would be more inclined to agree if not for Cassell. In a word, Cassell's effect on Moss' fantasy value has been crippling.

True. I'm painfully aware of this as a Pats fan. However, Cassel has been able to connect with Moss on a couple TDs, and more importantly they are still calling the deep ball a few times a game despite his apparent ineptitude. As most Moss watchers will tell you, if you get the ball anywhere near him deep, he will beat 2 or 3 guys to get the ball.

 

[Koya]

Moss is going to be a boom and bust player with Cassel at the helm. IIRC, there were two distinct occasions where Moss had his coverage beat - by a decent/good amount - only for Cassel to not get the ball out there. Moss still has the wheels (something I had been concerned about a couple weeks ago), but the whol reason they give him some slants is to set up the bomb...

with Brady, you were almost guaranteed one of those bombs would hit, with a decent chance to get two - and you never know, maybe even three. With Cassel, you are about 50/50 he will get one, maybe even slightly less, with a shot at a huge 2 bomb TD day, but dont hold your breath. And of course games where they miss on all the big plays and you get 3 or 5 catches for 38 or 52 yards and nothing.

Unless Cassel can become a better QB than he seems to be, its going to be this and while that's a bad situation for a #1 WR, if you have some depth Moss still should help win some games over the year when Cassel does deliver the ball.

 

[beavers]

Nice showing from Moss last night.

Is this a sign of things to come or an excellent opportunity to jump ship???

 

[cowboy homer]

I think Cassel looked very good and feel like he is getting the system. I understand it was the Denver D but you still have to produce. He is getting better and making better decisions. You have to like Moss. Not saying he is going to catch 2 TDs every game but he will produce top 10 WR numbers.

You also have to like Welker who looked real good last night.

Bump all Pats. The D looked very good and that will make the O much better.

This team is built to play with the lead

 

[Sheriff66]

I think Cassel looked very good and feel like he is getting the system. I understand it was the Denver D but you still have to produce. He is getting better and making better decisions. You have to like Moss. Not saying he is going to catch 2 TDs every game but he will produce top 10 WR numbers.You also have to like Welker who looked real good last night.Bump all Pats. The D looked very good and that will make the O much better.This team is built to play with the lead

Denvers putrid D on the road will make anybody look good, that didn't change my mind on anything.

 

[Sabertooth]

Is everyone pretty much on board with the thinking that Welker will probaby score more in a PPR format from here on out than Moss will? Just seems that Welker matches up with Cassel's limited skill set quite a bit better than Moss does. As Yudkin stated earlier, Cassel often takes too long to make his decisions, so either Moss gets too deep or he takes a sake a lot of the times.

Any reason to think Moss will outscore Welkers in a PPR format from here on out? I say no.

 

[cowboy homer]

Did you watch the game? Cassel looked very sharp. Dont understand why people dont give credit when credit is due.

This team has some nice matchups coming up and look for more of Moss and welker to produce

 

[stbugs]

I think Cassel looked very good and feel like he is getting the system. I understand it was the Denver D but you still have to produce. He is getting better and making better decisions. You have to like Moss. Not saying he is going to catch 2 TDs every game but he will produce top 10 WR numbers.You also have to like Welker who looked real good last night.Bump all Pats. The D looked very good and that will make the O much better.This team is built to play with the lead

I disagree, I think it was completely related to the D they faced. Sammy Morris averaging almost 10ypc proved that. I cringed at how bad Denver's D looked on the second Moss TD. It was almost like Welker blocked the entire secondary. They will have good offensive games against bad defenses as most teams do, but against OK to good defenses, I think they will be meh to bad. The fact that Cassel got sacked so many times means that he still doesn't have the pocket presence. I didn't watch the whole game, but I saw a few of the sacks and he just didn't look good on those. There was one in particular where he almost had the ball stripped and as someone posted above he didn't seem aware of it. That may come with more play, but his inexperience is shining through on those plays where the protection breaks down. When it held up Denver's awfulness on defense made him look solid.The one thing the Pats have going for them is their schedule. They play Pittsburgh and Buffalo, but other than that, they face OK to mediocre defenses.

 

[Sabertooth]

Did you watch the game? Cassel looked very sharp. Dont understand why people dont give credit when credit is due.This team has some nice matchups coming up and look for more of Moss and welker to produce

No need to get chippy. People are just stating that Denver's defense is very suspect and not to get your hopes up based on them.

 

[David Yudkin]

I'm not sure I agree that Cassel played well. I think he did ok. He took 6 sacks from a team that up until this week was averaging about 1.5 sackd per game.

On several occasions Cassel missed guys that were wide open. I know he can't be totally blamed when there were guys in his face or mediocre blocking, but Brady would have done a side step and still carved up the defense. Put another way, a healthy Brady would have had 350/5 last night and the score would have been in the 50s.

The Pats may have a couple more soft defenses to face heading forward, but I would not say that the Pats have turned a corner offensively by beating up a team that has major defensive deficiences.

 

[Johnny Ice]

I think Cassel looked very good and feel like he is getting the system. I understand it was the Denver D but you still have to produce. He is getting better and making better decisions. You have to like Moss. Not saying he is going to catch 2 TDs every game but he will produce top 10 WR numbers.You also have to like Welker who looked real good last night.Bump all Pats. The D looked very good and that will make the O much better.This team is built to play with the lead

Don't be fooled. Denver's D was that bad. Morris has been putting up garbage numbers until last night. He started against San Fran too and did nothing. The Broncos were getting pushed around all night and missing tackles at an alarming rate. They are definitely right there with KC and Det in regards to defense, maybe worse.

 

[Sheriff66]

I'm not sure I agree that Cassel played well. I think he did ok. He took 6 sacks from a team that up until this week was averaging about 1.5 sackd per game.On several occasions Cassel missed guys that were wide open. I know he can't be totally blamed when there were guys in his face or mediocre blocking, but Brady would have done a side step and still carved up the defense. Put another way, a healthy Brady would have had 350/5 last night and the score would have been in the 50s.The Pats may have a couple more soft defenses to face heading forward, but I would not say that the Pats have turned a corner offensively by beating up a team that has major defensive deficiences.

 

[Workhorse]

I'm not sure I agree that Cassel played well. I think he did ok. He took 6 sacks from a team that up until this week was averaging about 1.5 sackd per game.On several occasions Cassel missed guys that were wide open. I know he can't be totally blamed when there were guys in his face or mediocre blocking, but Brady would have done a side step and still carved up the defense. Put another way, a healthy Brady would have had 350/5 last night and the score would have been in the 50s.The Pats may have a couple more soft defenses to face heading forward, but I would not say that the Pats have turned a corner offensively by beating up a team that has major defensive deficiences.

Was a little surprised by the playcalling in the first half last night. Given Cassel's obvious deficiencies in pre-snap reads, redirecting blocking assignments and pocket presence in the face of a rush (all Brady hallmarks), I was shocked that McDaniels didn't have more dump offs options and screens called. They need to keep defenses honest, even on play-action. Seems like they adjusted in the second half - Particularly on the Moss bubble-screen and some well-designed short/medium routes to Welker....

 

[bigmiiiiike]

I agree with stbugs, Cassel was comfortable last night. He was at home on MNF against a terrible D. Two weeks ago, he was uncomfortable, and that's a little scary, as the SD D is only marginally better than Denver. Welker seems like he's going to be consistent enough based on his receptions to be an average to decent scorer (decent WR3, lower end WR2). Moss will have his games, but he will also lose you a lot of games with his clunkers when Cassel is under pressure. I would not be too confident with either Cassel or Moss based on last night's performance. All that it proved to me was that they can be great spot starters when facing a D with a weak secondary and no pass rush.

 

[TD Ryan]

I'm not sure I agree that Cassel played well. I think he did ok. He took 6 sacks from a team that up until this week was averaging about 1.5 sackd per game.On several occasions Cassel missed guys that were wide open. I know he can't be totally blamed when there were guys in his face or mediocre blocking, but Brady would have done a side step and still carved up the defense. Put another way, a healthy Brady would have had 350/5 last night and the score would have been in the 50s.The Pats may have a couple more soft defenses to face heading forward, but I would not say that the Pats have turned a corner offensively by beating up a team that has major defensive deficiences.

Cassel's passer rating last night (136.3) is a perfect example of why Passer Rating is a flawed statistic.Cassel was OK, but not great the way his Passer Rating would suggest.He still holds on to the ball too long.He was the beneficiary of turnovers and the resulting short field.And it was a concern that NE initially had to settle for 2 FGs with those short fields.The NE team played very well last night and DEN handed them some gifts (penalties and turnovers).Cassel was really just along for the ride. He didn't completely screw up but he wasn't great either.The red zone INT which was overturned by replay was a horrible decision by Cassel.Nice game for NE.Nice game for Cassel (as in everything just happened to go his way).But NE isn't out of the woods. They'll have to kick and claw for every yard on offense.